Comments on: Halloween in Alphaville

By: kale

kale — Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:59:11 +0000

Well, Peter, now I think we’re mixing issues that are in different realms (in my mind). I *do* see a big diff in on-line games and the consequences attached to them and I still think that a game that closely modelled real world consequences might fare far worse than one that does not because a majority of people use these games for a certain type of escapism from the real world. There is an issue here about how much of my belief may merely be an extension of the importance that *I* place on these environments emotionally. I *do* want to concede your point about strong emotional attachments potentially being formed on-line for some people and I think this gets away from my original claim into something that requires a study of its own. Re: the cybering thing, I’m not totally aware of how that goes but I am truly fascinated by the number of people who have told me that their real life relationships have been jeopardized by on-line entanglements. A rather large number of people have expressed such concerns to me, and I personally have an issue with “jealousy” in the real world or otherwise that seems to put me in the minority camp. I think flirting on-line and off is healthy, and if I’m secure in my relationship with someone, it’ll take a hell of a lot to get me jealous. (I tend to laugh rather than pout in these scenarios). I don’t think a marriage license or similar established bond gives me *exclusive rights* to the affections of another, which might be an odd view. We all have lines we draw regarding what we expect from a partner, how we’ll react to a partner’s interaction (virtual or otherwise) with another, I suppose. I think a whole interesting sociological article could be devoted to this issue, and I’m not illuminating anything by further rambling now. You make a good point, but I still see a distinction between the virtual and real realms that makes a big diff to me.

By: Peter Ludlow

Peter Ludlow — Fri, 07 Nov 2003 22:51:54 +0000

Well, it is certainly true that after a night of cybering in alphaville one won’t have to face a palimony suit or an std, but on the other hand, one might wake up worrying that the other person is a minor or a blackmailer or that you may be found our by your rl partner or in game partner or that one might become socially austracised (sp?) in alpha for doing the wrong sim, so I don’t get the big diff. Indeed it all sounds a lot to me like the 70s, when people woke up with all kinds of guilt even though there were no stds to worry about.

By: kale

kale — Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:44:13 +0000

Well, point for you. Maybe my random example is a poor one because I do indeed readily want to concede that people can get “attached” to people on-line. So, if the point of the former is *simply* regret or something like that, that can certainly occur in these on-line communities depending on how seriously one takes them. That strikes me too. However, the attachment that one is going to feel will depend a lot on how much they invested emotionally in the character, how willing they are to simply turn off the button and walk away from their computer for however long they desire. (That’s something I’ve found you can’t really do in real life— it keeps pounding at your door whether you’d like to turn it off or not). The point I (still) want to maintain is that you *don’t* wake up the next morning after playing on one of these gaming communities wondering if you’re going to be sued for pallimony at some point. People may emotionally attach (note: for a lot of drama kings and queens, I think the on-line emotional attachment is a part of escaping from their real life as well; another outlet), but a great many people (I’m lead to believe) like life in these games because of the particular insular environment and the lack of consequences. They can “virtually marry” a new person and cut it off every other day with no real-life parrallel consequences (except perhaps some emotional repercussions depending on their nature— if that’s all you deduce from my last example then perhaps it is a bad illustration of my thought).

By: Peter Ludlow

Peter Ludlow — Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:54:15 +0000

Well, based on the fact that sims the world over wake up every day having regreted cybering with the wrong person I don’t see why Halloween should be any different. I’m struck by all the hooking up that seems to take place and more so by all the regret and dramma that seems to follow said hooking up. In this respect it is like the real world, only more so.

By: Kale

Kale — Fri, 07 Nov 2003 00:47:19 +0000

No, my point is not that you can’t have fun in real life— my concern is with the type of fun. The escapism that concerns me and entails getting away from real life consequences means something tantamount to the following…random example: I don’t think anyone at our Alphaville Halloween party had to wake up ‘the ever dreadful morning after’ going “Oh hell, who is this in bed next to me?!” At least, I don’t *think* they did (I *didn’t* stay the whole night, flipped off the PC and I was back to my real world). Yet, I imagine that sort of thing was happening across America. Whether that’s good, bad, indifferent……I’ll leave it up to each individual to decide. That’s a small type of the real world consequences that I feel our virtual cubbie holes let us avoid.

By: Peter Ludlow

Peter Ludlow — Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:16:08 +0000

I dunno if it was any more escapist than any other party, Kale. That very same night people all over the US were dressing up in costure and going to parties. Was the party in alphaville more escapist? Not obvious to me.

By: Kale

Kale — Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:31:11 +0000

Halloween in Alphaville at The Church of Mephistopheles was indeed a riot. How often in real life, I ask you, do you get to swim yourself into virtual death, get a quick and handy revival, and walk away victorious with quid in your hands? Which brings me to reinforcing a point I had considered below (see comments on Thought Experiment, Part I)…..isn’t a primary motivating factor for gamers escapism?