Comments on: Lazy-Fare Economics http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html Always Fairly Unbalanced Tue, 04 Oct 2016 13:18:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Maria LaVeaux http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54308 Maria LaVeaux Fri, 09 Jan 2004 14:14:00 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54308 From my previous post,, "There is one other possibility out there to Drain off some of this exess Lucre floating around, and Maxis has proposed it some time ago.~BILLS~" Note i said to Drain off exess funds, NOT to stem the tide of incoming funds. Unfortunatly, as with the off line game, it seems all to easy for people to generate cheat programs for this sotware. Detection and countermeasures will involve much programming work on the part of maxis at some additional costs to them, and will at best only be a temporary measure. A sure method of stopping Bots? I don't think there is one, i am sure UO's solution works to an extent, but even it cannot be perfect because it relies on spot checks, and a Human checkers perception of what a player is or is not doing.House owners would have a better idea of who is using a Bot on their property, and could Boot and ban, BUT, people spending large ammounts of time in a home help with bonuses, and placement on the top 100 list. It is not really in the interests of the individual property owner to police the use of bots. I think the one sure way, and i will get flamed for even suggesting it, is a Cap. A Maximum allowable hard currency level. Each sim would only be able to carry $XXXX.XX ammount of simoleans at a given time. but of course you can see the devastating effect it would have on large segments of the TSO population, Money and skill houses would suffer, stores would be forced to keep their assets in ever depreciating stock, Lack of free flowing currency would damage stores, entertainment sites, gambling houses. Unfortunatly, Sure cures tend not to be the best ones, So,, we are left with Imperfect controls, Like the removal of popular game objects, lower payouts and possibly, the addition of bills. Again, Maxis has left us with a "Live with it" situation. Is it me, or is this game getting more like life, where Cheaters prosper and the Honest foot the bill? Maria. From my previous post,,
“There is one other possibility out there to Drain off some of this exess Lucre floating around, and Maxis has proposed it some time ago.~BILLS~”
Note i said to Drain off exess funds, NOT to stem the tide of incoming funds.
Unfortunatly, as with the off line game, it seems all to easy for people to generate cheat programs for this sotware. Detection and countermeasures will involve much programming work on the part of maxis at some additional costs to them, and will at best only be a temporary measure. A sure method of stopping Bots? I don’t think there is one, i am sure UO’s solution works to an extent, but even it cannot be perfect because it relies on spot checks, and a Human checkers perception of what a player is or is not doing.House owners would have a better idea of who is using a Bot on their property, and could Boot and ban, BUT, people spending large ammounts of time in a home help with bonuses, and placement on the top 100 list. It is not really in the interests of the individual property owner to police the use of bots.
I think the one sure way, and i will get flamed for even suggesting it, is a Cap. A Maximum allowable hard currency level. Each sim would only be able to carry $XXXX.XX ammount of simoleans at a given time. but of course you can see the devastating effect it would have on large segments of the TSO population, Money and skill houses would suffer, stores would be forced to keep their assets in ever depreciating stock, Lack of free flowing currency would damage stores, entertainment sites, gambling houses.
Unfortunatly, Sure cures tend not to be the best ones, So,, we are left with Imperfect controls, Like the removal of popular game objects, lower payouts and possibly, the addition of bills. Again, Maxis has left us with a “Live with it” situation. Is it me, or is this game getting more like life, where Cheaters prosper and the Honest foot the bill?

Maria.

]]> By: PT http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54307 PT Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:25:49 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54307 TSO also has the same unattended macroing rule...and it also sends messages from EA Reps doing the same as UO did....once that started becoming heavily a concern, the program was updated to: 1. Make a VERY annoying loud smoke detector type noise to notify you of the EA Rep message and it would reply to it for you, or you could opt to stop the program and answer yourself. So again this is only more of a minor nuisance than anything else. One other feature, which I mentioned before which would help prevent these EA Rep messages, was the ability to log you out of the game and back in again after each session. You could also select to move to a new city when you next logged in if you so chose. TSO also has the same unattended macroing rule…and it also sends messages from EA Reps doing the same as UO did….once that started becoming heavily a concern, the program was updated to:

1. Make a VERY annoying loud smoke detector type noise to notify you of the EA Rep message and it would reply to it for you, or you could opt to stop the program and answer yourself. So again this is only more of a minor nuisance than anything else. One other feature, which I mentioned before which would help prevent these EA Rep messages, was the ability to log you out of the game and back in again after each session. You could also select to move to a new city when you next logged in if you so chose.

]]> By: toy http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54306 toy Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:57:33 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54306 toy would point out using a very easy program like EZ Macros anyone could set up a bot to run 24/7...... and it wouldnt have to be involved at all with touching any part of the TSO software.... one way UO got past this is by having what is called....... ummmmm toy cant remember what they were but, basically people in game who worked for UO and if someone was spotted say skilling something for a long time they would speak to them in game and if they got no reply in 5-10 minutes they were condsidered running a macro and booted.. it was refered to as 'unattended macroing' and was against UO ToS so there are many ways of stopping the bots its just realizing that it is a problem and Maxis to DO something about it :) toy toy would point out using a very easy program like EZ Macros anyone could set up a bot to run 24/7…… and it wouldnt have to be involved at all with touching any part of the TSO software…. one way UO got past this is by having what is called……. ummmmm toy cant remember what they were but, basically people in game who worked for UO and if someone was spotted say skilling something for a long time they would speak to them in game and if they got no reply in 5-10 minutes they were condsidered running a macro and booted.. it was refered to as ‘unattended macroing’ and was against UO ToS

so there are many ways of stopping the bots its just realizing that it is a problem and Maxis to DO something about it :)

toy

]]> By: Cocoanut http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54305 Cocoanut Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:32:14 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54305 Bills. I figure they will only harm honest Sims, while taking only a drop out of the bucket of cheating Sims. In other words, say I work my Sim butt off for 3 months to make a size 8 lot. Then I sit there and host it. Now comes along bills. Me, the only Sim living there (for all practical purposes) has to foot the entire bill myself through legitimate means. Cheating Sim: Gets a bill based on the lot size. Easily has bots just work a little more, if even that would be necessary. Non-cheating Sim with lots of roomies: Annoying, but together, they manage. Me, honest Sim, doing ok on my own. I have the same size lot as the Cheating Sim and the Roomied Sim, and my bill is the same as theirs. But there is only me to pay it. Result: The cheating rich get a proportionately tiny bit less rich; the poor don't have any lots to worry about anyway; and the struggling, hard-working honest middle class Sims get the shaft. Bots: The biggest problem in the Sim "economy". And it's extremely irritating to know that the designer gets $129 real life money for selling them. Also irritating to know that the buyer then gets rl money for selling Simoleons made with them. And then irritating to see Sims buying Simoleons to buy visibility and success. Might as well play There and buy everything straight from the company. None of this would be so irritating if these bots hadn't destroyed so much of the regular fun on the game, making it difficult for the honest Sim to compete, and giving newbies weird ideas of what to expect. coco Bills. I figure they will only harm honest Sims, while taking only a drop out of the bucket of cheating Sims.

In other words, say I work my Sim butt off for 3 months to make a size 8 lot. Then I sit there and host it. Now comes along bills. Me, the only Sim living there (for all practical purposes) has to foot the entire bill myself through legitimate means.

Cheating Sim: Gets a bill based on the lot size. Easily has bots just work a little more, if even that would be necessary. Non-cheating Sim with lots of roomies: Annoying, but together, they manage. Me, honest Sim, doing ok on my own. I have the same size lot as the Cheating Sim and the Roomied Sim, and my bill is the same as theirs. But there is only me to pay it.

Result: The cheating rich get a proportionately tiny bit less rich; the poor don’t have any lots to worry about anyway; and the struggling, hard-working honest middle class Sims get the shaft.

Bots: The biggest problem in the Sim “economy”. And it’s extremely irritating to know that the designer gets $129 real life money for selling them. Also irritating to know that the buyer then gets rl money for selling Simoleons made with them. And then irritating to see Sims buying Simoleons to buy visibility and success. Might as well play There and buy everything straight from the company.

None of this would be so irritating if these bots hadn’t destroyed so much of the regular fun on the game, making it difficult for the honest Sim to compete, and giving newbies weird ideas of what to expect.

coco

]]> By: Mistress Maria LaVeaux http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54304 Mistress Maria LaVeaux Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:28:59 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54304 There is one other possibility out there to Drain off some of this exess Lucre floating around, and Maxis has proposed it some time ago. ~BILLS~ The Biggest problem in TSO seems to be that we only have two thirds of an economic structure. Making Money, and buying Things. If Maxis was to add the weekly, or monthly expenses of lighting, water, taxes, even paying for that Damned Newspaper i didn't order that just ends up cluttering up my lawn. I know bills are an unpopular idea, as the posts in other message boards has shown, but it certainly will stablize the economy. (I understand steps have already been taken to stemm the flood of simolians for sale on ebay, this can only help as well) Maria LaVeaux. There is one other possibility out there to Drain off some of this exess Lucre floating around, and Maxis has proposed it some time ago.

~BILLS~

The Biggest problem in TSO seems to be that we only have two thirds of an economic structure. Making Money, and buying Things. If Maxis was to add the weekly, or monthly expenses of lighting, water, taxes, even paying for that Damned Newspaper i didn’t order that just ends up cluttering up my lawn.
I know bills are an unpopular idea, as the posts in other message boards has shown, but it certainly will stablize the economy.
(I understand steps have already been taken to stemm the flood of simolians for sale on ebay, this can only help as well)

Maria LaVeaux.

]]> By: Urizenus http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54303 Urizenus Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:56:48 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54303 Interesting! So how much do the high end bots cost to develop? Surely, at some point the cost of running a bot over low payout money objects makes it hardly worth the effort. Unless, of course, the cost of simoleans keeps rising. Interesting! So how much do the high end bots cost to develop? Surely, at some point the cost of running a bot over low payout money objects makes it hardly worth the effort. Unless, of course, the cost of simoleans keeps rising.

]]> By: RB http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54302 RB Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:20:50 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54302 Totally Agree with Mr PT there. At the highest end of the spectrum such bots can run TSO 100% automatically and do everything in game without needing a human to help. EA severly underestimates this and thinks simple coding tricks will work. lol. These programmers can get around any poor defence maxis throw up. It's the objects themselves that are the pain in the arse. Without maze everything is teribbly shockingly slooooooooow. - RB Totally Agree with Mr PT there. At the highest end of the spectrum such bots can run TSO 100% automatically and do everything in game without needing a human to help. EA severly underestimates this and thinks simple coding tricks will work. lol. These programmers can get around any poor defence maxis throw up. It’s the objects themselves that are the pain in the arse. Without maze everything is teribbly shockingly slooooooooow.

- RB

]]> By: PT http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54301 PT Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:38:11 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54301 "The idea now is for Maxis to include a third button in their confirmation window even if the button is visibly blank. Every time the confirmation window pops up the button order is shuffled and automated scripts will only be able to pick the correct button 1/3rd of the time." You vastly underestimate the ability of these programmers. These bot programs, at least the better ones, not the cheap $20 crap you find on Ebay, would easily detect the difference between buttons. The better prgrams actually read the screen.....such as the example of when a bot would green an item and the item would be broken, the bot would have the sim repair the item and then continue upon the greening process. If the bots that were in play could do this what effect would a 3rd button changing at random do??? not a darn thing! Things aren't as simple as they seem on the surface, programmers can just about steer around anything. Let's also not forget that some of the bots also auto logged you in, they literally typed in your ID password, selected your city and sim, did the house search, entered your home and knew right where all the objects were. A randomly changing 3rd button is not going to have any effect whatsoever, if it were that easy it would have been done. “The idea now is for Maxis to include a third button in their confirmation window even if the button is visibly blank. Every time the confirmation window pops up the button order is shuffled and automated scripts will only be able to pick the correct button 1/3rd of the time.”

You vastly underestimate the ability of these programmers. These bot programs, at least the better ones, not the cheap $20 crap you find on Ebay, would easily detect the difference between buttons. The better prgrams actually read the screen…..such as the example of when a bot would green an item and the item would be broken, the bot would have the sim repair the item and then continue upon the greening process. If the bots that were in play could do this what effect would a 3rd button changing at random do??? not a darn thing! Things aren’t as simple as they seem on the surface, programmers can just about steer around anything. Let’s also not forget that some of the bots also auto logged you in, they literally typed in your ID password, selected your city and sim, did the house search, entered your home and knew right where all the objects were. A randomly changing 3rd button is not going to have any effect whatsoever, if it were that easy it would have been done.

]]> By: Bob http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54300 Bob Mon, 05 Jan 2004 12:28:41 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54300 Well considering most people stay AK by putting something heavy on the enter key..the adding a 3rd button is kinda pointless. I will come straight out thats how I stay online. Well considering most people stay AK by putting something heavy on the enter key..the adding a 3rd button is kinda pointless. I will come straight out thats how I stay online.

]]> By: RB http://alphavilleherald.com/2004/01/lazyfare_econom.html/comment-page-1#comment-54299 RB Sun, 04 Jan 2004 21:26:45 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=3014#comment-54299 EA & Maxis have no clue. Also i did like squirrels report, but i think half of it was a frustrated rant and only the other half good reading. - RB EA & Maxis have no clue.

Also i did like squirrels report, but i think half of it was a frustrated rant and only the other half good reading.

- RB

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