I think that there is something right on about legitimate fears having to do with ‘net usage, but those who have written here about actual gains in their lives from the on-line world, show that the issue is a lot more tricky than this interview certainly does, justice to, and that’s entirely my fault— late night interview, a little punchy, kicking back w/ a few beers and such (As light bulbs flicker in the minds of all our bloggers here— horrific insight into how the Herald staff conducts business. I know, I know, but…).

I believe it’s really hard to dispute that the internet can have pitfalls. Further I think that zoning in on the charge that it may lead to isolation, poor personal skills and a turning away from others, as humdog’s illustration nicely illuminates (I like the phrase “boxed social worlds”— right on, I think) is perhaps one of the biggest downsides. Yet, I don’t believe that to be an entirely damning criticism as many here have pointed out: one can find many many varieties of escapism (or methods of “boxing”) and escapism isn’t always a bad thing anyhow, perhaps. What I find so interesting is that on-line environments are so seductive because they present a unique way of shutting out the world. The ‘net is so vast that one could have the illusion that they are making great social connections and developing (and by “illusion” I don’t mean to imply that they aren’t doing so to an extent, but my concern is that the individual is *over* estimating the skills and growth that they’re receiving on-line) when they are missing out on a lot of whatever else the world may offer to them as a human being. If there is such an illusion, it’s a hell of one; where else can you find that kind of environment? It’s especially enticing, all these seemingly dynamic wonderful experiences, so much so that it may be hard to see the damage being done to the individual (arguably, of course). I find that fascinating.

Anyhow, since CH’s philosophy seems superficial to many, are there any good reads out there addressing this issue that people care to share?

ms la veaux has horrifically over-simplified
the situation with the spread of knowledge
during the middle ages. true books were handwritten. but books were also available for rent, there were other manuscripts called glosses, (commentaries) and professors travelled a circuit. also terms like “information” and “knowledge” have different definitions for the pre-printing press individual than they have nowadays. people used DIFFERENT PROCESSES to create and learn than those used now. it is
usually not a good idea to project present day cultural patterns relative to the spread of ideas and knowledge on to other, dis-similar cultural groups.

thank you i feel better now.

ms la veaux has horrifically over-simplified
the situation with the spread of knowledge
during the middle ages. true books were handwritten. but books were also available for rent, there were other manuscripts called glosses, (commentaries) and professors travelled a circuit. also terms like “information” and “knowledge” have different definitions for the pre-printing press individual than they have nowadays. people used DIFFERENT PROCESSES to create and learn than those used now. it is
usually not a good idea to project present day cultural patterns relative to the spread of ideas and knowledge on to other, dis-similar cultural groups.

thank you i feel better now.

yes. i agree with that comment — the net does encourage isolation, and xenophobia. in 1993 or so, when stuff was mostly unix and before usenet was destroyed by advertisers and publicity hounds, i was learning to play JS Bach’s ART OF THE FUGUE. this is a difficult and obscure work for keyboard. i thought, with big stars in my eyes, that it would be fun to talk about the work online. so i made my little post. i didn’t expect many replies etc. but i got six of them — all people on different continents. right then i realized that by using the net, “boxed” social worlds could be created so that nobody would have to deal with any challenge or newness or diversity unless they wanted to. since that time i see that occur over and over — voices sort of clump together on the net in a way that they are unable to clump together in daily life.

because of this ability the net has to box social interaction, to sort of shrink-wrap relationship,and because there is most always a cost of entry attached to electronically mediated communication, i tend to think that all of the hype about smart mobs etc is deceptive –
unless you want to spend your time hanging with people who are mostly from the same demographic universe.

a good place to visit if you don’t believe me is
http://www.well.com which pretty much reflects a social world view common in marin county, usa, and projects that world view onto the rest of the world.

I know CH will not be reading this, so the Question is Open to all,,,

Isn’t “Exploring Within” EXACTLY what we are doing when we create these alternates?

In the Surreal worlds of TSO, and Second Life. Aren’t people, Free from many societaly based Prejudices, and Stereotypes Far more free to explore various facets of their personality?

I myself, and Most others i know, when we discuss just what it is we are doing, Agree that we are trying on many of the “What If’s” that society and the realities of our life have prevented us from examining so far. For some, it has meant being Awakened to Parts of themselves that have layen dormant for most of our lives. For others, it has meant taking to the real world, the Confidence, and Self Acceptance that has been Nurtured On Line.
Some have gained an awareness of their sexuality. Others have dived fully into Lifestyles that are out of their reach in RL. Politics, Mafia’s, Religious Orders, Open Relationships, Big Business, Sports, Entertainment, Academic Acheivements. All this, and much more.
Looking Within, Self Exploration all done safely in these environments WITH the assistance of others on a similar journey.

C.H.’s endictment of the net, saying it promotes Isolation is not a very well thought out, or researched opinion. “I sit alone in my room on the computer, therefore i am Isolated”. No. In RL, I am Painfully shy. Expressing myself in the way i do here, is very difficult for me. I Hid behind books my whole life using them as a shield to avoid speaking to others. (Poof goes the “Book” arguement that C.H. put forward, Sneezing from the dust Isn’t a Social Interaction, it is an Allergic reaction) Then i discovered TSO, and On Line, within weeks, i was out of my shell, and this HAS carried over to my RL as well. The Net has Ended my isolation, Not promoted it.

It’s Huge,, the Internet,, Everything, and i MEAN Everything can be had in it at the touch of a few buttons. Intellectual Materials on every subject, Brain Candy to suit any Palate, Access to Markets that span the globe, Music, Literature, AND People one would Only see in RL if one posessed Huge personal resources.
The sheer size of the thing scares people. The Lack of Boarders Intimidates them. ALL the walls people put up around themselves, or have had put up around them by others MELT in the On Line Environment.
For many, this is simply terrifying.
At one point in our History, All books were hand written, and available in only a limited range of subjects due to the religeous outlook of the only people with the ability to write. Then Johannes Gutenburg Invented the printing Press, and Movable type. NOW, the Intellectual world Exploded with possibilities and opportunities. There were many who felt this was an evil thing, and predicted No good coming from it. I see the same pattern with Every new form of disseminating information that has come since. Telegraph, Radio, Telephones, Televisions The list is huge, and in Every case, there can be found people like C.H. who are afraid of the change, and mask it behind calls of “This will destroy society”. Well, We have had printed books for 600 years, and society is still here. Changed,, But still here. The Internet is a NEW form of communication, A Wider, and less restrictive form, and for those people who Truely believe, as Macheavelli did, that the masses Are not fit to decide things for themselves, This sort of freedom is as Mortifying a concept as possible.
If you think the net is not for you, I won’t try to change your mind, But you don’t have ALL the information you need to make that value judgement for Others. Saying things like, “If i were in charge of the world, I would shut the net down” speaks more of your Fears than of any well founded Intellectual disagreement with the principles of the Internet.

You call for “Looking Within” Then Look within yourself, and try to see the REAL reasons that the Internet scares you, Not the rather flimsey arguements you have used here.
You are not being held to Ridicule, as you fear, But your Ideas are being challenged. THAT is a fundamental of Interaction.Let’s see if you can embrace the process.

Post again chere.
Maria.

there is a sinister side to all of this phosphorescent superficiality, and when i feel
better i will write it down.