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	<title>Comments on: Linden Lab Supports Invasion of Your Privacy?</title>
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	<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html</link>
	<description>Always Fairly Unbalanced</description>
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		<title>By: Mick McAllister</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47215</link>
		<dc:creator>Mick McAllister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47215</guid>
		<description>I had a SL account for two weekends, and suffered an &quot;invasion of privacy&quot; so irritating that I swore it off. During the workweek between, ZoneAlarm crapped out. It had to be deleted and installed after a Safe Mode checkdsk. My virus checker crapped out. Had to download a new copy. Spybot refused to run through a half dozen reboots, and AdAware announced it was non-functional. Two or three essential DLLs were reported missing during bootup, and my USB drivers disappeared. Eventually I had to do an OS repair to get my house in order. And the USB drivers disappeared again a few days ago, only to reappear on reboot.

Coincidence? Hardly. I might come back after switching to Linux, but under Windows SL is a bit too chummy with my computer for my taste.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a SL account for two weekends, and suffered an &#8220;invasion of privacy&#8221; so irritating that I swore it off. During the workweek between, ZoneAlarm crapped out. It had to be deleted and installed after a Safe Mode checkdsk. My virus checker crapped out. Had to download a new copy. Spybot refused to run through a half dozen reboots, and AdAware announced it was non-functional. Two or three essential DLLs were reported missing during bootup, and my USB drivers disappeared. Eventually I had to do an OS repair to get my house in order. And the USB drivers disappeared again a few days ago, only to reappear on reboot.</p>
<p>Coincidence? Hardly. I might come back after switching to Linux, but under Windows SL is a bit too chummy with my computer for my taste.</p>
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		<title>By: Buster Peel</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47214</link>
		<dc:creator>Buster Peel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47214</guid>
		<description>I think you are reading too much into &quot;as determined by Linden at its sole discretion&quot;.  Linden&#039;s lawyers would have ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED them to put that in there, because otherwise petty matters would become arguable.  Especially when there are loose words like &quot;offensive&quot;  -- offensive to who?  What would be the adjudication procedure otherwise?

The langauge applies to all matters, not just weighty profound ones.  I could claim to be offended by short skirts, for example.  Who decides?

That language is not there by choice as a power grab.  It could not be any other way.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are reading too much into &#8220;as determined by Linden at its sole discretion&#8221;.  Linden&#8217;s lawyers would have ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED them to put that in there, because otherwise petty matters would become arguable.  Especially when there are loose words like &#8220;offensive&#8221;  &#8212; offensive to who?  What would be the adjudication procedure otherwise?</p>
<p>The langauge applies to all matters, not just weighty profound ones.  I could claim to be offended by short skirts, for example.  Who decides?</p>
<p>That language is not there by choice as a power grab.  It could not be any other way.</p>
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		<title>By: Walker Spaight</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47213</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker Spaight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47213</guid>
		<description>OH I see. Sorry. It&#039;s the mean old boss in me coming out, lol.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OH I see. Sorry. It&#8217;s the mean old boss in me coming out, lol.</p>
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		<title>By: Neal Stewart</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47212</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47212</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment Walker. Sorry if I didn&#039;t make myself clear. I know that those things are currently considered offenses but I do not think they should be.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment Walker. Sorry if I didn&#8217;t make myself clear. I know that those things are currently considered offenses but I do not think they should be.</p>
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		<title>By: Cienna</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47211</link>
		<dc:creator>Cienna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47211</guid>
		<description>The only point I had you have more than well made for me, Marsellus.

Thanks! :)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only point I had you have more than well made for me, Marsellus.</p>
<p>Thanks! <img src='http://alphavilleherald.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Walker Spaight</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47210</link>
		<dc:creator>Walker Spaight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47210</guid>
		<description>Neal, you might want to take another look at the Community Standards, which expressly forbid a couple of things you say are not an offense:

&quot;Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Lives. Sharing personal information about a fellow Resident --including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location beyond what is provided by the Resident in the First Life page of their Resident profile is a violation of that Resident&#039;s privacy. Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums.&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neal, you might want to take another look at the Community Standards, which expressly forbid a couple of things you say are not an offense:</p>
<p>&#8220;Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Lives. Sharing personal information about a fellow Resident &#8211;including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location beyond what is provided by the Resident in the First Life page of their Resident profile is a violation of that Resident&#8217;s privacy. Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Urizenus</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47209</link>
		<dc:creator>Urizenus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47209</guid>
		<description>Her point is that &#039;right&#039; does not meet &#039;didn&#039;t get caught&#039;.

There is another point that she made in the article though, which is that while in-game mafias and quasi-governmental organizations (like the SSG and the Alphaville Government) have been doing under cover operations to gather info forever, the game companies ususally doen&#039;t publish loving portraits of those activities.  But, in effect, that happened in this case.

In other words, the point of the article was not, gee look at this new thing happening in the game, but rather &quot;why the hell are the linden&#039;s applauding it in a company sponsored blog.&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Her point is that &#8216;right&#8217; does not meet &#8216;didn&#8217;t get caught&#8217;.</p>
<p>There is another point that she made in the article though, which is that while in-game mafias and quasi-governmental organizations (like the SSG and the Alphaville Government) have been doing under cover operations to gather info forever, the game companies ususally doen&#8217;t publish loving portraits of those activities.  But, in effect, that happened in this case.</p>
<p>In other words, the point of the article was not, gee look at this new thing happening in the game, but rather &#8220;why the hell are the linden&#8217;s applauding it in a company sponsored blog.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Marsellus Wallace</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47208</link>
		<dc:creator>Marsellus Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47208</guid>
		<description>Cienna:

I&#039;m sorry, did you have a point?

-Mars
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cienna:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, did you have a point?</p>
<p>-Mars</p>
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		<title>By: Neal Stewart</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47207</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47207</guid>
		<description>Personally, I think there is also at least one other school of thought. I support the &#039;hands-off&#039; philosophy that Linden Labs claims to be aiming for in general and do not think that LL should respond to these detective/intel businesses (although I can personally respond!). I&#039;m going to be unpopular for saying this, and you&#039;ll probably be surprised, but I&#039;m inclined to prefer that:

- Remotely monitoring conversations and sharing logs etc is not a punishable offense
- Impersonating persons or entities is not a punishable offense
- Revealing residents&#039; RL details, should they become known by residents, is also not an offense

This is not because I have a personal interest in these things, they are just what I would prefer to be LL hands-off. I anticipate the, &quot;What if you were the victim, Neal?&quot; objection but I take that one on the chin. I think that residents should be empowered with their own ways to respond to these situations in SL. At the code-level. Obviously there are some situations that residents physically won&#039;t be able to respond to in any meaningful way. Here I think you just have to bite the bullet and list it as a cost of the hands-off approach over paternalism.

Where it gets trickier is sub-article iv:
&quot;[You shall not] take any action… that… as determined by Linden at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, causes tort, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable&quot;

I would say here that threatening RL physical harm should be a bannable offense and of course the proper authorities notified etc. The line is obviously quite vague and tricky though. The others (harassing, vulgar, tort etc) are even harder. I think that Linden Labs should try and pursue a strategy aimed at maximizing free speech while maintaing a strong position legally. What that entails exactly, I simply do not know. My main point though is that I am personally very liberal in terms of what I think LL should allow residents to do in Second Life. So I think that the examples of these detective/intel activities, should not be restricted.

It&#039;s a tricky topic to tackle because it deals with rights at the most basic level. Unless you bring in thought-experiments that lead to Bad Places or you can highlight internal inconsistencies in a position, I&#039;m not sure that there is all that much more that you can say other than, &quot;I believe that we should be allowed to do such and such...&quot;

So that&#039;s what I believe :)

But it&#039;s 4am and I&#039;m unsure of myself on this issue and might just be playing Devil&#039;s Advocate :)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think there is also at least one other school of thought. I support the &#8216;hands-off&#8217; philosophy that Linden Labs claims to be aiming for in general and do not think that LL should respond to these detective/intel businesses (although I can personally respond!). I&#8217;m going to be unpopular for saying this, and you&#8217;ll probably be surprised, but I&#8217;m inclined to prefer that:</p>
<p>- Remotely monitoring conversations and sharing logs etc is not a punishable offense<br />
- Impersonating persons or entities is not a punishable offense<br />
- Revealing residents&#8217; RL details, should they become known by residents, is also not an offense</p>
<p>This is not because I have a personal interest in these things, they are just what I would prefer to be LL hands-off. I anticipate the, &#8220;What if you were the victim, Neal?&#8221; objection but I take that one on the chin. I think that residents should be empowered with their own ways to respond to these situations in SL. At the code-level. Obviously there are some situations that residents physically won&#8217;t be able to respond to in any meaningful way. Here I think you just have to bite the bullet and list it as a cost of the hands-off approach over paternalism.</p>
<p>Where it gets trickier is sub-article iv:<br />
&#8220;[You shall not] take any action… that… as determined by Linden at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, causes tort, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable&#8221;</p>
<p>I would say here that threatening RL physical harm should be a bannable offense and of course the proper authorities notified etc. The line is obviously quite vague and tricky though. The others (harassing, vulgar, tort etc) are even harder. I think that Linden Labs should try and pursue a strategy aimed at maximizing free speech while maintaing a strong position legally. What that entails exactly, I simply do not know. My main point though is that I am personally very liberal in terms of what I think LL should allow residents to do in Second Life. So I think that the examples of these detective/intel activities, should not be restricted.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a tricky topic to tackle because it deals with rights at the most basic level. Unless you bring in thought-experiments that lead to Bad Places or you can highlight internal inconsistencies in a position, I&#8217;m not sure that there is all that much more that you can say other than, &#8220;I believe that we should be allowed to do such and such&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>So that&#8217;s what I believe <img src='http://alphavilleherald.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s 4am and I&#8217;m unsure of myself on this issue and might just be playing Devil&#8217;s Advocate <img src='http://alphavilleherald.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Cienna</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/03/linden_lab_supp.html/comment-page-1#comment-47206</link>
		<dc:creator>Cienna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2436#comment-47206</guid>
		<description>Marsellus, I know that in &#039;gangland&#039;, all ethics and philosophy manages to rise to is &#039;don&#039;t get caught&#039;... but for those of us who actually think beyond the moment, or care to look beyond the next score and consider how Second Life is going to look when we&#039;re tired of being &#039;gang bangers&#039; and using accents and language our momma never taught us, there is a little more to things than &#039;don&#039;t get caught&#039;.

As hard as that may be for you to believe.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marsellus, I know that in &#8216;gangland&#8217;, all ethics and philosophy manages to rise to is &#8216;don&#8217;t get caught&#8217;&#8230; but for those of us who actually think beyond the moment, or care to look beyond the next score and consider how Second Life is going to look when we&#8217;re tired of being &#8216;gang bangers&#8217; and using accents and language our momma never taught us, there is a little more to things than &#8216;don&#8217;t get caught&#8217;.</p>
<p>As hard as that may be for you to believe.</p>
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