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	<title>Comments on: “All on the Same Page”:  IRC Chat Logs Support Linden/FIC Conspiracy vs Prok</title>
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	<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html</link>
	<description>Always Fairly Unbalanced</description>
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		<title>By: wannabe</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46213</link>
		<dc:creator>wannabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46213</guid>
		<description>Heh, wow.

Thanks for posting that.

So much for the denials of selective treatment; that log pretty much put an end to that nonsense.

The whining about wishing for civility over truth and fair treatment really got my attention. This from a person who can gas for hours about hard work and tenacity and &#039;the desire to build a better mousetrap&#039; being all one ever needs to succeed.

You hypocrite.

Where does the personal responsibility enter into all this? IE: if someons posts, and I get ticked off and react in a way that might get me banned, how is it another&#039;s fault for how I have chosen to respond? When did someone else get to be the one I blame for my choices in emotions and reactions? I can&#039;t HELP myself? Is that not the argument of every victim?

Behavior good for the rest of &#039;our&#039; residents? You elitist, you. Who said you get to decide for me what is good for me, that I need to be thought FOR, that the expression of a wide variety of thought, and indeed from the inane to the ridiculous, is BAD for me and therefore needs to be limited?

It&#039;s not a republic? That from a person who is such a vocal supporter of republics, af free speech, of unlimited creativity, of inalienable rights?

I&#039;m honestly ashamed at my own gullibility again, for believing the words spoken by those oh-so-vociferous supporters of freedoms. Seems this only applies to them.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, wow.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting that.</p>
<p>So much for the denials of selective treatment; that log pretty much put an end to that nonsense.</p>
<p>The whining about wishing for civility over truth and fair treatment really got my attention. This from a person who can gas for hours about hard work and tenacity and &#8216;the desire to build a better mousetrap&#8217; being all one ever needs to succeed.</p>
<p>You hypocrite.</p>
<p>Where does the personal responsibility enter into all this? IE: if someons posts, and I get ticked off and react in a way that might get me banned, how is it another&#8217;s fault for how I have chosen to respond? When did someone else get to be the one I blame for my choices in emotions and reactions? I can&#8217;t HELP myself? Is that not the argument of every victim?</p>
<p>Behavior good for the rest of &#8216;our&#8217; residents? You elitist, you. Who said you get to decide for me what is good for me, that I need to be thought FOR, that the expression of a wide variety of thought, and indeed from the inane to the ridiculous, is BAD for me and therefore needs to be limited?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a republic? That from a person who is such a vocal supporter of republics, af free speech, of unlimited creativity, of inalienable rights?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m honestly ashamed at my own gullibility again, for believing the words spoken by those oh-so-vociferous supporters of freedoms. Seems this only applies to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Elle Pollack</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46212</link>
		<dc:creator>Elle Pollack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2005 02:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46212</guid>
		<description>&quot; I believe these terms (griefer, spammer, troll) are too easily bandied about, and are vaguely defined, and are overbroad, and involve overreach in many cases.&quot;

me: &quot;The software obviously can’t determine nor care whether the administrator is blocking an IP for legit reasons or not.&quot;

See above.  I don&#039;t deny that you&#039;re correct about that.  I wasn&#039;t applying the terms to anyone specific...except maybe all the automated programs that attempted to post multiple &quot;free porn!  free drugs!&quot; links in my own blog.

As for having stated the obvious...anything that is read or written by me at 8 in the morning when I&#039;m less than awake should be taken with a grain of salt.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; I believe these terms (griefer, spammer, troll) are too easily bandied about, and are vaguely defined, and are overbroad, and involve overreach in many cases.&#8221;</p>
<p>me: &#8220;The software obviously can’t determine nor care whether the administrator is blocking an IP for legit reasons or not.&#8221;</p>
<p>See above.  I don&#8217;t deny that you&#8217;re correct about that.  I wasn&#8217;t applying the terms to anyone specific&#8230;except maybe all the automated programs that attempted to post multiple &#8220;free porn!  free drugs!&#8221; links in my own blog.</p>
<p>As for having stated the obvious&#8230;anything that is read or written by me at 8 in the morning when I&#8217;m less than awake should be taken with a grain of salt.</p>
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		<title>By: Prokofy Neva</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46211</link>
		<dc:creator>Prokofy Neva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46211</guid>
		<description>Cubey, it depends on how you define the WA. Where does it begin and end? I would say that a group of people standing by the game tables and fishing game seeing your blimp land right near the waterfront there are a captive audience to your blimp. You may take a very literal construction of what it means to have a blimp (a blimp!!!) &quot;hover over a WA&quot;. To me, &quot;hovering over a WA&quot; is when a blimp arrives at a telehub area, which is also used as a newbie WA with newbie signs and such, and makes a big appearance and a big splash, with a notecard deliverable upon touching. I noticed it dozens of times the minute I emerged out of the telehub there and tried to fly forward. So please, don&#039;t try this hocus pocus tekkie literalist stuff on me. We all know what &quot;hovering over the WA&quot; means -- we can see your blimp doing it LOL. You can keep your 50k, however. I&#039;ll be blogging pictures too.

Elle, is there any reason why you felt the need to write a patently obvious &quot;FYI&quot;? What would make you believe that I didn&#039;t already know what you just wrote, and in fact knew it for the last years of my life, long before I came to SL?

We all know that sites take IPs. Duh. That&#039;s just how it works. And we all know there is software and logs and all the rest. My purpose here is not trying to um &quot;educate&quot; myself on the facts of how these obvious things work. My purpose is to QUESTION their validity and their MISUSE. I don&#039;t know why this subtlety doesn&#039;t come across, every time. I know that Cristiano is busy puffing himself up now over on his blog with 12 references to him supposedly already &quot;setting me straight&quot; on the IP issue. But I&#039;m here to QUESTION their use and MISUSE. This constant literalist tekkie can&#039;t-see-forest-for-trees problem really stumps me!

You also handily talk about &quot;spammers, griefers, and trolls&quot; using all these jargonist terms from Internet communities and games, especially MMORPG fan forums. But I don&#039;t accept these terms as legitimately applied. I certainly don&#039;t believe I&#039;m a troll or griefer because I persistently engaged in polemics -- polemics is what you used to call &quot;trolling&quot; in a bygone era of print media and oral debates f2f, and in those olden days, you honed your skills of rhetoric to engage in polemics, you didn&#039;t undermine the entire art of polemics itself by calling anyone who engaged in it &quot;a troll&quot;.

I don&#039;t accept these givens, Elle. I believe these terms are too easily bandied about, and are vaguely defined, and are overbroad, and involve overreach in many cases. What is a griefer? Do we honestly have a really solid body of data on this to determine a community-wide, acceptable definition?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cubey, it depends on how you define the WA. Where does it begin and end? I would say that a group of people standing by the game tables and fishing game seeing your blimp land right near the waterfront there are a captive audience to your blimp. You may take a very literal construction of what it means to have a blimp (a blimp!!!) &#8220;hover over a WA&#8221;. To me, &#8220;hovering over a WA&#8221; is when a blimp arrives at a telehub area, which is also used as a newbie WA with newbie signs and such, and makes a big appearance and a big splash, with a notecard deliverable upon touching. I noticed it dozens of times the minute I emerged out of the telehub there and tried to fly forward. So please, don&#8217;t try this hocus pocus tekkie literalist stuff on me. We all know what &#8220;hovering over the WA&#8221; means &#8212; we can see your blimp doing it LOL. You can keep your 50k, however. I&#8217;ll be blogging pictures too.</p>
<p>Elle, is there any reason why you felt the need to write a patently obvious &#8220;FYI&#8221;? What would make you believe that I didn&#8217;t already know what you just wrote, and in fact knew it for the last years of my life, long before I came to SL?</p>
<p>We all know that sites take IPs. Duh. That&#8217;s just how it works. And we all know there is software and logs and all the rest. My purpose here is not trying to um &#8220;educate&#8221; myself on the facts of how these obvious things work. My purpose is to QUESTION their validity and their MISUSE. I don&#8217;t know why this subtlety doesn&#8217;t come across, every time. I know that Cristiano is busy puffing himself up now over on his blog with 12 references to him supposedly already &#8220;setting me straight&#8221; on the IP issue. But I&#8217;m here to QUESTION their use and MISUSE. This constant literalist tekkie can&#8217;t-see-forest-for-trees problem really stumps me!</p>
<p>You also handily talk about &#8220;spammers, griefers, and trolls&#8221; using all these jargonist terms from Internet communities and games, especially MMORPG fan forums. But I don&#8217;t accept these terms as legitimately applied. I certainly don&#8217;t believe I&#8217;m a troll or griefer because I persistently engaged in polemics &#8212; polemics is what you used to call &#8220;trolling&#8221; in a bygone era of print media and oral debates f2f, and in those olden days, you honed your skills of rhetoric to engage in polemics, you didn&#8217;t undermine the entire art of polemics itself by calling anyone who engaged in it &#8220;a troll&#8221;.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t accept these givens, Elle. I believe these terms are too easily bandied about, and are vaguely defined, and are overbroad, and involve overreach in many cases. What is a griefer? Do we honestly have a really solid body of data on this to determine a community-wide, acceptable definition?</p>
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		<title>By: Cocoanut</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46210</link>
		<dc:creator>Cocoanut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 14:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46210</guid>
		<description>P.S.  Not only have I never posted with an alt anywhere, I don&#039;t even have different names for different games!  I&#039;m Cocoanut everywhere, and always, and only, Cocoanut, in every game.  And I stand behind my stated beliefs everywhere, just as I stand behind my name.

cocoanut
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  Not only have I never posted with an alt anywhere, I don&#8217;t even have different names for different games!  I&#8217;m Cocoanut everywhere, and always, and only, Cocoanut, in every game.  And I stand behind my stated beliefs everywhere, just as I stand behind my name.</p>
<p>cocoanut</p>
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		<title>By: Cocoanut</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46209</link>
		<dc:creator>Cocoanut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 14:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46209</guid>
		<description>I have never posted with an alt, anywhere, in all my years on the Internet.

I think you are right, Montserret.  It is so incredible to me that people can post to support Prok only using an alias.

It is also incredible to me that people have told me in world that they would post to support me, but, well, you know.  Or, but, well, they don&#039;t want to get &quot;ripped to shreds.&quot;

I wonder how much power all those people could have - to take back the forums, to object to the draconian new rule, and object to the hounding and hectoring of people on the forums who say things those who &quot;run&quot; the forums don&#039;t want to hear.

coco
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have never posted with an alt, anywhere, in all my years on the Internet.</p>
<p>I think you are right, Montserret.  It is so incredible to me that people can post to support Prok only using an alias.</p>
<p>It is also incredible to me that people have told me in world that they would post to support me, but, well, you know.  Or, but, well, they don&#8217;t want to get &#8220;ripped to shreds.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wonder how much power all those people could have &#8211; to take back the forums, to object to the draconian new rule, and object to the hounding and hectoring of people on the forums who say things those who &#8220;run&#8221; the forums don&#8217;t want to hear.</p>
<p>coco</p>
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		<title>By: montserrat</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46208</link>
		<dc:creator>montserrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 11:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46208</guid>
		<description>prok&#039;s eloquent remarks remind me of what umberto eco once said about how the new barbarians would come from WITHIN the city rather than from the frontiers.

as i experience this particular kind of gaming and role play, the more i think that it is a kind of lucid dreaming.  i also think that it de-sensitizes people to certain kinds of activities and behaviors.

i think it is time to question technology.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>prok&#8217;s eloquent remarks remind me of what umberto eco once said about how the new barbarians would come from WITHIN the city rather than from the frontiers.</p>
<p>as i experience this particular kind of gaming and role play, the more i think that it is a kind of lucid dreaming.  i also think that it de-sensitizes people to certain kinds of activities and behaviors.</p>
<p>i think it is time to question technology.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46207</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 11:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46207</guid>
		<description>&quot;Great post Prokofy. I enjoy reading your posts and I agree very much so. I don’t see you as being defeated. I wouldn’t be able to stand up to these bullies with their childish antics for half as long as you have&quot;

Coco, if you&#039;re going to pretend you&#039;re someone else, at least make an effort to camouflage your stupidity.

And if you hate bullies, you shouldn&#039;t being licking prok&#039;s boots. he&#039;s the biggest bully around. Shame on him and shame on you for supporting his tyranny.

Catherine
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Great post Prokofy. I enjoy reading your posts and I agree very much so. I don’t see you as being defeated. I wouldn’t be able to stand up to these bullies with their childish antics for half as long as you have&#8221;</p>
<p>Coco, if you&#8217;re going to pretend you&#8217;re someone else, at least make an effort to camouflage your stupidity.</p>
<p>And if you hate bullies, you shouldn&#8217;t being licking prok&#8217;s boots. he&#8217;s the biggest bully around. Shame on him and shame on you for supporting his tyranny.</p>
<p>Catherine</p>
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		<title>By: Elle Pollack</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46206</link>
		<dc:creator>Elle Pollack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 11:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46206</guid>
		<description>FYI, *every* webpage checks the IP address of the person visiting it.  That&#039;s how you connect to the server so you can download the content.  Most webserver software also keeps activity logs, both for statistical and administrative purposes.  The blog software the Herald uses likely has its own such mechanisms as well as the ability to ban someone by IP...and for good reason, because there are genuine spammers, griefers and trolls that exploit blogs for their nefarious deeds.  The software obviously can&#039;t determine nor care whether the administrator is blocking an IP for legit reasons or not.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, *every* webpage checks the IP address of the person visiting it.  That&#8217;s how you connect to the server so you can download the content.  Most webserver software also keeps activity logs, both for statistical and administrative purposes.  The blog software the Herald uses likely has its own such mechanisms as well as the ability to ban someone by IP&#8230;and for good reason, because there are genuine spammers, griefers and trolls that exploit blogs for their nefarious deeds.  The software obviously can&#8217;t determine nor care whether the administrator is blocking an IP for legit reasons or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Someone</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46205</link>
		<dc:creator>Someone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46205</guid>
		<description>Great post Prokofy. I enjoy reading your posts and I agree very much so. I don&#039;t see you as being defeated. I wouldn&#039;t be able to stand up to these bullies with their childish antics for half as long as you have.

I &lt;3 Ray Bradbury.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Prokofy. I enjoy reading your posts and I agree very much so. I don&#8217;t see you as being defeated. I wouldn&#8217;t be able to stand up to these bullies with their childish antics for half as long as you have.</p>
<p>I &lt;3 Ray Bradbury.</p>
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		<title>By: lalalalala</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/06/all_on_the_same.html/comment-page-1#comment-46204</link>
		<dc:creator>lalalalala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2323#comment-46204</guid>
		<description>Nobody likes you prok cause you&#039;re annoying and useless. It&#039;s really that simple. Although you DO provide some comic relief now and again.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody likes you prok cause you&#8217;re annoying and useless. It&#8217;s really that simple. Although you DO provide some comic relief now and again.</p>
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