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	<title>Comments on: Permabanned???  Did Xaph get the Moe Linden Special?</title>
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	<description>Always Fairly Unbalanced</description>
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		<title>By: Fred Extraordinaire</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45401</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Extraordinaire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2261#comment-45401</guid>
		<description>The lindens reserve the right to ban you at anytime they want bcause its THEIR game, they made it they own all the copyrights to it and it&#039;s engine and can remove any disruptive griefer if they see fit.  possibly the shear ammount of abuse report spacemonkeys sent the lindens to make sure this wasnt ignored was enough to ban him, or maybe the reply i sent with a link to your sweet little article praising these theives. uri..you should know better.
Furthermore the TOS is not a bill of rights, you have no rights as a citizen of second-life and lindens can do wahtever the fuck they want to you.

pwnt.
^_^
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lindens reserve the right to ban you at anytime they want bcause its THEIR game, they made it they own all the copyrights to it and it&#8217;s engine and can remove any disruptive griefer if they see fit.  possibly the shear ammount of abuse report spacemonkeys sent the lindens to make sure this wasnt ignored was enough to ban him, or maybe the reply i sent with a link to your sweet little article praising these theives. uri..you should know better.<br />
Furthermore the TOS is not a bill of rights, you have no rights as a citizen of second-life and lindens can do wahtever the fuck they want to you.</p>
<p>pwnt.<br />
^_^</p>
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		<title>By: seldon metropolitan</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45400</link>
		<dc:creator>seldon metropolitan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2005 09:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2261#comment-45400</guid>
		<description>I have to say that the phrase &quot;Jesus Tittyf*ckin&#039; Christ&quot; made my day.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that the phrase &#8220;Jesus Tittyf*ckin&#8217; Christ&#8221; made my day.</p>
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		<title>By: indy Grommet</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45399</link>
		<dc:creator>indy Grommet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2261#comment-45399</guid>
		<description>Jesus Tittyf*ckin&#039; Christ.  What we need here is a more Libertarian way of things lol.  The Lindens just need to realize that things that happen in SL may make them uncomfortable, but they need to have enough self-control not to intervene.  Personally, I would _LOVE_ it if they were able to finally stop intervening on issues like this, so that we could go on doing anything we wanted (within 1st-life-worldly legal limits and TOS limits).  People role-play mafias.  This sort of thing, betrayals and things, should be more common among those groups.  Maybe we just need a way to get a sort of &quot;checks and balances&quot; system in place on the Lindens.  Anyone have any ideas?  Oh, and my SL Name (and E-mail) are no longer in use, so don&#039;t bother tryin&#039; to contact me. =/
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus Tittyf*ckin&#8217; Christ.  What we need here is a more Libertarian way of things lol.  The Lindens just need to realize that things that happen in SL may make them uncomfortable, but they need to have enough self-control not to intervene.  Personally, I would _LOVE_ it if they were able to finally stop intervening on issues like this, so that we could go on doing anything we wanted (within 1st-life-worldly legal limits and TOS limits).  People role-play mafias.  This sort of thing, betrayals and things, should be more common among those groups.  Maybe we just need a way to get a sort of &#8220;checks and balances&#8221; system in place on the Lindens.  Anyone have any ideas?  Oh, and my SL Name (and E-mail) are no longer in use, so don&#8217;t bother tryin&#8217; to contact me. =/</p>
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		<title>By: Kyran Nyak</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45398</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyran Nyak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2261#comment-45398</guid>
		<description>bwhahahaha, i heared he just did something stupid. bet his account got a review, had quiete a list and got the boot. lindens have feelins 2 so im not saying that this hasnt got anything to do with the landheist but they seemingly got a reason other than the theft itself. so... buh bye Xaphon/Nero.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bwhahahaha, i heared he just did something stupid. bet his account got a review, had quiete a list and got the boot. lindens have feelins 2 so im not saying that this hasnt got anything to do with the landheist but they seemingly got a reason other than the theft itself. so&#8230; buh bye Xaphon/Nero.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardith Mifflin</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45397</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardith Mifflin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2261#comment-45397</guid>
		<description>Urizenus, the problem with the laissez faire approach which you advocate is that it threatens to destabilize the world. If people cannot be confident that their land will not be stolen, then they need to act. In the short term, this means presenting a strong disciplinary front. In the long term, it means reforming the group and land policy, as the prime nuisance has previously suggested. If they do nothing, then you risk seeing an increase in despicable pieces of shit stealing land more frequently.

As for the defense of Xaphon: a CEO of a major corporation can not just sell a company jet and pocket the proceeds. Even if we pretend for a second that this was some glorious and majestic corporate takeover of a rival corporation, then the proceeds of that takeover were inappropriately liquidated and embezzled. Either way you cut it, he&#039;s a worthless twit. Good riddance.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Urizenus, the problem with the laissez faire approach which you advocate is that it threatens to destabilize the world. If people cannot be confident that their land will not be stolen, then they need to act. In the short term, this means presenting a strong disciplinary front. In the long term, it means reforming the group and land policy, as the prime nuisance has previously suggested. If they do nothing, then you risk seeing an increase in despicable pieces of shit stealing land more frequently.</p>
<p>As for the defense of Xaphon: a CEO of a major corporation can not just sell a company jet and pocket the proceeds. Even if we pretend for a second that this was some glorious and majestic corporate takeover of a rival corporation, then the proceeds of that takeover were inappropriately liquidated and embezzled. Either way you cut it, he&#8217;s a worthless twit. Good riddance.</p>
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		<title>By: TraumaFox</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45396</link>
		<dc:creator>TraumaFox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2261#comment-45396</guid>
		<description>&quot;Any reason and no reason&quot; is there for cases like this. Not only does it give the Lindens absolute authority over SL regardless of what&#039;s defined in the TOS or not, it&#039;s also there to cover morality issues that can&#039;t truly be defined by the TOS.

Just because the TOS doesn&#039;t explicity state that &quot;users who take group land and sell it without the group&#039;s consent will be banned&quot;, doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s right and justifiable. If there weren&#039;t any laws against murder, that wouldn&#039;t make killing everyone in sight a morally just thing to do.

All you people with this retarded petition are saying, &quot;Hey, it&#039;s okay to do whatever horribly immoral things you want in SL, as long as the TOS lets it slide.&quot; I hope that every person who signs this petition has all of their land stolen from them, to see how it feels. The Lindens took action against a user at their own discretion based on whatever reasons they have, and they have the right to do it. Who the hell do you people think you are to disrespect that authority? Sure, it&#039;s a community-driven game, the Lindens aren&#039;t perfect, and everyone has their protests, but you all forget that you aren&#039;t &lt;i&gt;entitled&lt;/i&gt; to any freedoms in SL.

I&#039;m not trying to defend the Spacemonkeys either, because they were obviously not too bright to just make everyone officers. However, just because they made a mistake doesn&#039;t mean Xaphon is a faultless saint who should be able to get away with it. If you accidentally leave your keys in your unlocked car, and your car gets stolen, no court is going to say, &quot;Sorry, you left your keys in the car, you lose.&quot; In that light, yes, both parties screwed up, but I  guess the Lindens believed that Xepher&#039;s &lt;i&gt;deliberately&lt;/i&gt; taking advantage of a loophole was worse than the Spacemonkey&#039;s mistake. That&#039;s their decision to make, no one else&#039;s, and nobody here has a right to appeal.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Any reason and no reason&#8221; is there for cases like this. Not only does it give the Lindens absolute authority over SL regardless of what&#8217;s defined in the TOS or not, it&#8217;s also there to cover morality issues that can&#8217;t truly be defined by the TOS.</p>
<p>Just because the TOS doesn&#8217;t explicity state that &#8220;users who take group land and sell it without the group&#8217;s consent will be banned&#8221;, doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s right and justifiable. If there weren&#8217;t any laws against murder, that wouldn&#8217;t make killing everyone in sight a morally just thing to do.</p>
<p>All you people with this retarded petition are saying, &#8220;Hey, it&#8217;s okay to do whatever horribly immoral things you want in SL, as long as the TOS lets it slide.&#8221; I hope that every person who signs this petition has all of their land stolen from them, to see how it feels. The Lindens took action against a user at their own discretion based on whatever reasons they have, and they have the right to do it. Who the hell do you people think you are to disrespect that authority? Sure, it&#8217;s a community-driven game, the Lindens aren&#8217;t perfect, and everyone has their protests, but you all forget that you aren&#8217;t <i>entitled</i> to any freedoms in SL.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not trying to defend the Spacemonkeys either, because they were obviously not too bright to just make everyone officers. However, just because they made a mistake doesn&#8217;t mean Xaphon is a faultless saint who should be able to get away with it. If you accidentally leave your keys in your unlocked car, and your car gets stolen, no court is going to say, &#8220;Sorry, you left your keys in the car, you lose.&#8221; In that light, yes, both parties screwed up, but I  guess the Lindens believed that Xepher&#8217;s <i>deliberately</i> taking advantage of a loophole was worse than the Spacemonkey&#8217;s mistake. That&#8217;s their decision to make, no one else&#8217;s, and nobody here has a right to appeal.</p>
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		<title>By: Prokofy Neva</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45395</link>
		<dc:creator>Prokofy Neva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2261#comment-45395</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s very  likely to happen with this story and other land-grab stories (about which I know nothing -- note that Uri posted it) is that the people in the dispute are likely to be vigorously portrayed as assholes by those in the dispute. We&#039;ll be treated to all kinds of sordid she-said/he-said kind of stories, tales of Avs Behaving Badly and all the rest.

But it doesn&#039;t matter if the people in the stories are assholes, and deserve to die, and are wasted pieces of server space. There has to be due process, a publicly-explain policy, and a consistency of that policy when the Lindens intervene in group land. We&#039;re not hearing that. We&#039;re seeing that Lindens grab land, well, because it&#039;s their servers. They pretend all this stuff about how it&#039;s our world and our imagination and stuff, but it comes to naught in these cases. There is much hype in the media interviews by Phil in particular about &quot;land ownership&quot; and &quot;land barons&quot; but in fact, it&#039;s absolutely worthless, even when you pay tier, when the Lindens come to seize it.

The characters and actions of those from whom the land is seized may not be above reproach. Maybe they are scumbags. Maybe the people flipping Abuse Reports on them are scumbags. But even scumbags must have recourse to fairness, impartiality, and a due process -- otherwise the whole thing looks like it is just looks like a social Darwinist elitist Metaversal grab.

I&#039;m reminded of the celebrated Neal Cassady character in &quot;On the Road,&quot; who once explained to Jack Kerouac how the world works. &quot;It&#039;s all a big grab from Washington to Moscow.&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s very  likely to happen with this story and other land-grab stories (about which I know nothing &#8212; note that Uri posted it) is that the people in the dispute are likely to be vigorously portrayed as assholes by those in the dispute. We&#8217;ll be treated to all kinds of sordid she-said/he-said kind of stories, tales of Avs Behaving Badly and all the rest.</p>
<p>But it doesn&#8217;t matter if the people in the stories are assholes, and deserve to die, and are wasted pieces of server space. There has to be due process, a publicly-explain policy, and a consistency of that policy when the Lindens intervene in group land. We&#8217;re not hearing that. We&#8217;re seeing that Lindens grab land, well, because it&#8217;s their servers. They pretend all this stuff about how it&#8217;s our world and our imagination and stuff, but it comes to naught in these cases. There is much hype in the media interviews by Phil in particular about &#8220;land ownership&#8221; and &#8220;land barons&#8221; but in fact, it&#8217;s absolutely worthless, even when you pay tier, when the Lindens come to seize it.</p>
<p>The characters and actions of those from whom the land is seized may not be above reproach. Maybe they are scumbags. Maybe the people flipping Abuse Reports on them are scumbags. But even scumbags must have recourse to fairness, impartiality, and a due process &#8212; otherwise the whole thing looks like it is just looks like a social Darwinist elitist Metaversal grab.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m reminded of the celebrated Neal Cassady character in &#8220;On the Road,&#8221; who once explained to Jack Kerouac how the world works. &#8220;It&#8217;s all a big grab from Washington to Moscow.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: montserrat</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45394</link>
		<dc:creator>montserrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;any reason and no reason&quot; is my favorite reason of all.
i admire it profoundly.  that should tell you right there
that there is something deeply wrong with it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;any reason and no reason&#8221; is my favorite reason of all.<br />
i admire it profoundly.  that should tell you right there<br />
that there is something deeply wrong with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Levi Anansi</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45393</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi Anansi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2261#comment-45393</guid>
		<description>Honestly glad to see him gone. Cyanide probably didn&#039;t get the oust due to not being an officer (at least I don&#039;t think he was). Which means the initiating act had to be Xaphon. I know he has done this sort of thing at least twice now. The Lindens may know of more. If this is his way of playing the game than yes, it is &#039;inappropriate behavior&#039; as it amounts to fraud.

Ciao Xaphon.

BTW. I bought Anshe&#039;s parcel and gave it back to the Monks. If the Lindens come though with the rest, you accomplished nothing. Try again when you get another credit card =).

I am sure we have not heard the end of Old Xaphon.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly glad to see him gone. Cyanide probably didn&#8217;t get the oust due to not being an officer (at least I don&#8217;t think he was). Which means the initiating act had to be Xaphon. I know he has done this sort of thing at least twice now. The Lindens may know of more. If this is his way of playing the game than yes, it is &#8216;inappropriate behavior&#8217; as it amounts to fraud.</p>
<p>Ciao Xaphon.</p>
<p>BTW. I bought Anshe&#8217;s parcel and gave it back to the Monks. If the Lindens come though with the rest, you accomplished nothing. Try again when you get another credit card =).</p>
<p>I am sure we have not heard the end of Old Xaphon.</p>
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		<title>By: Prokofy Neva</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2005/08/permabanned_did.html/comment-page-1#comment-45392</link>
		<dc:creator>Prokofy Neva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=2261#comment-45392</guid>
		<description>The Lindens have now at least three times we&#039;re aware intervened in the affairs of groups and seized land, at the behest of an officer or group of officers, against another officer or officers, taking one side they like in a dispute. It&#039;s not important whether they take the &quot;right&quot; side, what&#039;s important that there be a policy and a due process. And there is none.

Walker is right, we do not have private land ownership rights protected in SL as much as content-creators have their IP protected to the extent they do. This is why there may have to be war between sandboxers (creative-content kings) and settlers (land barons and the settlers they sell to). It may be time for war, and war on a big scale until &quot;they get it&quot;. They don&#039;t now. The Lindens do not value land, that we can see, from the way they devalue it constantly, rolling it off the auction to barons and making sure only a few have it, and sell it at higher prices, and those that buy it, can&#039;t keep it&#039;s priced value because they are always griefed, lagged, uglified or outbaroned lol. It&#039;s all pretty simple.

Still, it&#039;s worth fighting for because private land ownership has been the bedrock of civilization for centuries. I don&#039;t see SL, just because it&#039;s a game and an inchoate metaverse, gets to overthrow those centuries of human experience. It still matters.

Due process is important, even in a game. The Lindens aren&#039;t explaining what the TOS violation is. Being a dick? But is that a TOS violation?

The Lindens themselves created these hippie commune dope-smoking group land tools that make everybody pitch their land into a common pool, regardless of who pays the purchase price or the tier, so that anyone can steal it out from anyone else and resell it or keep it in another group. It&#039;s a crystal-clear, text-book case of why communism ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE leads to crime. We need to thank the Lindens for that sterling, speeded up lesson in why socialism and communism can&#039;t work. Thanks. Now shut it down, and make real group tools that enable the protection of private property *by those who pay for it and pay tier on it*.

Next, create a disputes resolution system that can adjudicate contracts even at some really low-level of simply verifying whether a document is true and not forged or not. This seems doable.

I suspect the message from the Lindens is this: these are our servers. Do not fuck with us. Play nice and play the way we like with the people we like or lose your land. Fuck you very much.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Lindens have now at least three times we&#8217;re aware intervened in the affairs of groups and seized land, at the behest of an officer or group of officers, against another officer or officers, taking one side they like in a dispute. It&#8217;s not important whether they take the &#8220;right&#8221; side, what&#8217;s important that there be a policy and a due process. And there is none.</p>
<p>Walker is right, we do not have private land ownership rights protected in SL as much as content-creators have their IP protected to the extent they do. This is why there may have to be war between sandboxers (creative-content kings) and settlers (land barons and the settlers they sell to). It may be time for war, and war on a big scale until &#8220;they get it&#8221;. They don&#8217;t now. The Lindens do not value land, that we can see, from the way they devalue it constantly, rolling it off the auction to barons and making sure only a few have it, and sell it at higher prices, and those that buy it, can&#8217;t keep it&#8217;s priced value because they are always griefed, lagged, uglified or outbaroned lol. It&#8217;s all pretty simple.</p>
<p>Still, it&#8217;s worth fighting for because private land ownership has been the bedrock of civilization for centuries. I don&#8217;t see SL, just because it&#8217;s a game and an inchoate metaverse, gets to overthrow those centuries of human experience. It still matters.</p>
<p>Due process is important, even in a game. The Lindens aren&#8217;t explaining what the TOS violation is. Being a dick? But is that a TOS violation?</p>
<p>The Lindens themselves created these hippie commune dope-smoking group land tools that make everybody pitch their land into a common pool, regardless of who pays the purchase price or the tier, so that anyone can steal it out from anyone else and resell it or keep it in another group. It&#8217;s a crystal-clear, text-book case of why communism ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE leads to crime. We need to thank the Lindens for that sterling, speeded up lesson in why socialism and communism can&#8217;t work. Thanks. Now shut it down, and make real group tools that enable the protection of private property *by those who pay for it and pay tier on it*.</p>
<p>Next, create a disputes resolution system that can adjudicate contracts even at some really low-level of simply verifying whether a document is true and not forged or not. This seems doable.</p>
<p>I suspect the message from the Lindens is this: these are our servers. Do not fuck with us. Play nice and play the way we like with the people we like or lose your land. Fuck you very much.</p>
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