I can appreciate your sentiments and I don’t think ANYONE is advocating the kind of life you mention in your post. The problem as I see it with Gor is that, although Gorean philosophy may cover many things besides just slavery, and while on Gor, slavery is only 2-3% of the population, clearly due to John Norman’s personal sexual fantasies the Gor books past a certain point focus very heavily ON the slavery aspects. (Wow that was a run on sentence.)

That would be all fine and good if that was where it ended. Because it is true that many women are submissive and many men are dominant. And many many women have rape fantasies, where they actually achieve orgasm while fantasizing about nonconsensual sex that remains nonconsensual throughout the entire fantasy. (This has been reported with women who have been raped and women who haven’t been raped.) BUT it is a fantasy. And that is the point. No one REALLY wants to be raped, because it’s a tautological impossibility. You cannot want what you don’t want.

If you want it, there is some level on which it is not rape, even in a context where the person might do it anyway.

The problem is that Gorean philosophy really is much more elegantly expressed by the ancient Greeks, and the extreme attention to slavery in the books, makes it hard for someone to not be totally repulsed by “Gorean Philosophy.” Because it’s one thing if it’s a fantasy, and I’ll admit the scenarios in the Gor books make me hot, and I’m a female. But…it’s another to try to have a philosophy based on it. Even if Gorean Lifestylers are just for consensual slavery situations, the books don’t express primarily consensual slavery situations.

It’s a complicated issue. I personally wish that Gorean Lifestylers did not exist, because it makes it harder for me to enjoy the sexual fantasy of the Gor books.

But some people do live in consensual slavery situations and that is fine. Dominance and submission is a continuum. And human beings basically DO dominate and submit. Even if it isn’t always sexual, and even if someone doesn’t call anyone “Master” literally. But there are those who do have deep and more extreme submissive and dominant tendencies who act it out in real life in a consensual slavery arrangement. I am one of those people.

This does not mean that I have no concept of real involuntary slavery. Nor does it mean I think it’s “okay.” I most certainly don’t. No one wishes to romanticize involuntary slavery. But assuming a consensual slavery arrangement romanticizes involuntary slavery is like saying dominant consensual sex romanticizes rape. It just doesn’t. They are two very different things.

While some SL people are Gorean Lifestylers, I’d say many are just Gorean Roleplayers. And even if they are Gorean Lifestylers, since the way Gor slaves are treated in the sims goes against actual ethical behavior, they are Role playing at least SOME of the time in Gor.

I hope that I have no offended you or caused you additional pain, should you happen by and read this.

Does anyone have any idea what pain and horror it is to be a real life slave? To be kidnapped, taken from your family and forced to sexual service for every person that pays your owner? To only be seven years old (if that) and have every hole in your body torn into again and again. Do you ever wonder what it’s like to have narcotics forced down your throat, till you willing take all them to the ease the pain? And you take them so you won’t feel another crawl atop you to use you like a piece of meat. Oh and lets not leave out the STD’s, pregnancies, forced abortions or what’s worse they take your baby to sell it. Maybe the child will be sold to a nice couple but what is more likely they sell it to a pervert who likes to screw infants. Some slaves are in so much emotional pain they resort to cutting themselves up if they don’t mange to kill themselves or be killed by the slavers. Why do they romanticize it?! Think it’s all just a game?! It’s beyond sick!

I think it would be pretty difficult for someone to convince a court that they didn’t know the “Gor” books were copyrighted. A judge might tend to doubt such a claim.

And if someone is found guilty of copyright infringement, the matter doesn’t involve just a couple of hundred dollars worth of material. Copyright conviction can bring fines of $250,000 and (if I remember right) a 5-year prison sentence PER INCIDENT.

So if an author seriously wanted to impose his rights (and had a publishing company behind him who wanted to make an example of the offenders), they likely wouldn’t go after some small guy who drives around a clunker because he spends all day long Goring around on Second Life. They’d hit him just for a launching board– then hit Linden Lab for everything they could get. Attorney fees aren’t going to phase them, because the publishing company has its own attorneys on salary. And those attorneys tackle copyright issues every day, twice on Mondays.

Not to mention, the person that reproduced this from the book will be held civily responsible as the copyright declaration was in the books to begin with, not on the bootlegged notecards being passed around. The people who receive it from someone else has to be knowledgeable of the fact that it was copyrighted to begin with. And you have to legally prove that in court which is not easy.

If anyone has any other information that might be helpful (I’ve already emailed ‘Simon of Tabor’ and am trying to get in touch with Mr. Curtis) including links, in-world locations, contacts, etc. I’d love to hear from you.

Posting links to material that is infringement is not illegal in any way, shape or form. Those who utilize those links are infringing, or who repro the content from that link. The owners of the domain can’t sue me for linking http://www.insertspecialnamehere.com if the page is publicly accessible and I have provided nothing but the link. I cannot however, directly link content either.

Brace didn’t do either of those things so, therefore, there’s nothing you can do SoT, so quit trying to threaten people all the time, when they don’t agree with you. Most people here aren’t dumb enough to fall for the ‘I’m gonna get you’ routine.

BTW, SoT, I think you need to read up on Contributory Copyright Infringement. It has nothing to do with people who are just posting links.

In case you didn’t know (which I don’t think you do) -

Contributory Copyright Infringement – requires (1) knowledge of the infringing activity and (2) a material contribution — actual assistance or inducement — to the alleged piracy

To succeed on a contributory infringement claim, the copyright owner must show that the webmaster or service provider actually knew or should have known of the infringing activity.

Both these, which in all it’s defintion glory, Brace was not distributing the material therein, nor was the maintainer of the page (AFAIK, who knows?) and therefore falls in neither accepted category for CCI. Simply posting a link is not considered facilitating, the link itself does not connect to the infringing copies, only to a page that allows others to go foward on their own. This was widely debated and summarily discussed in law cases after the Grokster case and exactly what the terms mean, and how far it could be persued.

If Brace had posted http://www.talismanofgor.com and it lead directly to the book itself, as in front page, no click throughs, there might be a minute case, but more than likely any lawyer who takes that case to court would be laughed out of the profession.

With a grain of salt.

Unless it’s coming from the mouth of a lawyer, you can and should pretty much ignore it.”"”

Amen Alex!