So, Prok, responsibility, transparency, those words only mean something when someone says something negative about you? Hypocrite.

It starts with a right-click on the land and an examination of the land group; it stands with a right-click on the avatar and a perusal of his groups. That’s the minimum. People living and working in Second Life know the reputations and associations of these groups.

Hi David, thanks for dropping by. You’re not the problem; but you do need to report the story better. And while that may be very hard to do if you aren’t inworld a lot, and can’t realistically be expected to, if someone points out the truth of the situation, they shouldn’t be getting a reprimand.

>First, what exactly are you saying I would have discovered had I right-clicked on Coldwell’s land? You’re saying my story was uninformed and I’m not sure exactly what you object to.

You would discover that it is not Coldwell Banker that owns the land, David. The ways and means of ownership and reputation and groups in SL matter. You would have discovered that Coldwell Banker, like a good number of companies, didn’t have their own group, their own people, or even hired hands who they could discipline presumably and exercise some kind of quality-control over. Instead, they became *heavily* reliant on a metaversal development company with a bad inworld reputation, on (to us) anonymous, unaccountable avatars, in ways that have proven disastrous for their reputation among residents.

They can only rely on clueless newbies to think well of them; everyone else will be utterly jaded looking at the spectacle of a RL company coming into SL through the services of a discredited microbaron outfit that extorts people.

Like others, CB became so reliant, that they don’t even own the land that their company is touting! Instead, that land is owned by a group called Icehouse Land Holdings showing only Ancient Shriner as the officer; Chrischun Fassbinder is also involved in the caper.

This is terribly, terribly risky, aside from everything else; as anyone who has built in the inworld economy can tell you, if a developer commissions a mall and doesn’t buy the build, and doesn’t control every facet of the group that owns the land, he is screwed. At any time the architect can — and does — walk away with the build. The understanding you have with them, even involving payment or letting them use the land for their business in exchange for the build can unravel at any time — and does.

It’s kind of a miracle that there hasn’t been any major scandal (yet) from a metaversal company, really screwing and embarassing a big RL corporation. Developer companies, after all, are a separate entity with separate avatars that those big companies do not control, who have paid for the accounts and own the land technically as far as LL is concerned.

It’s become the norm for big companies to let these sherpas handle every detail, even remaining owners of land and builds. It’s an accident going somewhere to happen; and this story is an example.

Coldwell Banker, like some of the more sophisticated companies in SL, needs to do their homework, buy their land with their own avatars they run. My God, David, if moms of school-children can learn how to make a group, put avatars in it, buy land, and stick a build on it, so can sophisticated RL companies who have marketing/graphics/IT people on their staff. They don’t need to be paying the fantastic sums they are paying to people who lead them around by the nose.

>I do think there are several noteworthy aspects of Coldwell’s entry that are new for Second Life:
>-That a trusted well-known brand will stand behind real estate transactions. This is considerably different than Mr. Lee’s Hong Kong and I don’t understand your point there. Real brands matter because customer reactions have consequences that companies like Coldwell Banker have to take into consideration in their behavior.

David? You really are just not getting it here. Would you please just *go into Second Life and fly around?* Can I please take you on a tour??? You haven’t seen these griefer signs I’m talking about??? It’s spelled out in my article in lurid detail; I’ve covered it in the past too (http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2005/12/sign_in_the_wat.html). IM me and I will give you a tour.

Coldwell Banker *sure has hell* better take into consideration the brand they bought in SL: they bought a discredited, griefing, extortionist ugly brand.

*The same people who are working for Coldwell Banker are the ones who have the ugly Mr. Lee’s Hong Kong and other signs out, many of them set to sale for extortionist prices or blighting the view with large, bright spinning boxes*.

I’m not making some metaphorical statement here saying that Coldwell’s own logo sign is like Mr. Lee’s Hong Kong; I’m saying literally that the guys who work for Coldwell, who are their developers and managers, are the ones devaluing other people’s land with blight and extortion in the literal signs saying Mr. Lee’s Hong Kong as the chief form of sign extortion in SL.

>-That Coldwell has committed to staffing its office regularly (specifically 9am-8pm EST). I do think this is important and not enough done at all in-world.

That doesn’t impress me, David, if the people doing this are THESE people. My God, they are just plain rude bastards. We’ve all been experiencing this from them for years, literally. They are among the most aggressive and inconsiderate in SL. Already they’ve shown their true colours when people have come to ask about CB. CB needs to find new partners.

>Your complaints about Carr’s quote are legitimate. But there are his views, not mine, even if I should have quoted comments from others. I was limited because of Coldwell’s embargo on the news, however. Mostly this was a news story.

Why are you attributing to me, some sort of attribution to you? The problem isn’t that your subject’s views are confused with your own; the problem is that you selected for your talking heads people who have no track record or identity on this issue. Why? How? Google Carr, and there’s little about him of note except that he has a book coming out (Has anyone ever heard of him?). He’s not a recognized expert on virtual economies and the land market. Where are the 1000 land scammers he’s exaggeratedly talking about?

We are hugely sensitive to land scammers at the Herald and report them constantly — we have exactly one story about an island scammer and one some time ago about new land farmers. It’s not what he imagines at all.

It’s often the case that reporters doing a quick story like this pick Ted Castranova — who doesn’t really come in SL either, but at least has been around a long time thinking about the issues. But you didn’t bother to come to the people in this world who already actually run the real estate. And that’s not even me, as my company is small, or me as a Herald reporter; there are people like Adam Zaius, if you felt Anshe Chung was overdone, who could have given a very competent take on every aspect of CB’s entry.

It’s just typical of a lot of media coverage of SL, that we at the Herald object to strenuously: ignoring the people who already live and work here, and featuring the people only making a day trip.

>Fyi, the software and content developer of the Coldwell Banker properties was Code4Software.

David, FYI right back at you, this company Code4software is owned and operated by Ancient Shriner. It’s *that very company and avatars we’re complaining about*. Ancient Shriner is the avatar who owns Icehouse Land Holding, David. I’ve correctly diagnosed CB’s builders in world — and I don’t deserve any reprimands or correctios here, when you haven’t right-clicked on this avatar running the Coldwell Banker caper in SL, and seen that these groups *are all run by the same person*.

I really don’t see why I’m even getting any reprimand here at all– you seem unwilling to grasp that the company that Coldwell Banker chose to run their operations in Second Life has a bad reputation inworld for doing the very things that CB claims they need to come into SL to fix — being rapacious land barons.

That’s a pretty basic element of this story.

>One correction: The criticism of the style and originality of the Coldwell properties that you attribute to Carr came from me, not him.

I don’d understand what correction you’re talking about here, and you may be referring to another poster. I made it clear that Carr made the quote about the 1000 land scammers and selling the Golden Gate Bridge. So it’s inappropriate again to be issuing reprimands.

Each of the four appearances of your name in this article makes it clear that you are reporting a story, and that others are making the judgements. My critique of your reporting is merely that you didn’t go inworld, right-click on the land, right-click on the avatars, and recognize that these folks are the very ones griefing up the mainland.

>Finally, while I find such dialogue fascinating and indicative of the amazing passions that Second Life arouses, I also find it curious that you all are using only your avatar names and not, in addition, your real ones. That is not transparency. My own view is that even in Second Life it would be far preferable if people had the option of using their real names. If we want online experiences that are based on honesty and trust that is an elementary first step.

Well, David, tell your Linden friends not to charge $150 *US* per year to get your real name?! Or $1000 if you are a corporation wanting 100 names? And that’s a new feature, only recently made available. You *can’t* get a subscription and just sign your real name — have you got one and have you figured this out?

In many other games and worlds, you can use your real name instantly, as part of the regular subscription, including a simpler world like The Sims Online. You CAN’T use your real life on Second Life, David, unless you just happen to get lucky and your particular last name happens to flash by right when you are subscribing — very unlikely. You are FORCED to chose a false name — or pay $150 US, which is a lot to be paying on top of the expense of land.

It’s not OUR idea to have these goofy names, but the Lindens’ concept. Therefore slamming at us for having characters and avatars with these goofy names is misplaced and unfair.

Some people go around and make their avatars and RL names linked in various places, on blogs, etc. But experience has shown in abundance that in this situation, where the Lindens pinned these fake names on us AND there are numerous people who WANT to be anonymous and behave with impunity, those who DO use their RL names are merely opening themselves up to griefing by these anonymous asstards.

Google me, David. My name in RL is Catherine A. Fitzpatrick. This connection was long ago established everywhere and always, and even is grounds for constant griefing and ridicule. You really, really came to the wrong address with this one; I’m even stalked in RL and griefers even send me pictures of my doorway in RL, and even call me at home because while they can remain anonymous Internet griefing fucktards, I, as a person who *has* given out their name is an open target.

Can you appreciate that?

I’d like to see you apply those same rigorous stands you’re applying to me, who is publishing in the Herald, to Ancient Shriner and Chrischun Fassbinder, two avatars who have caused untold losses of thousands of US dollars with their extortion and griefing and blight of SL, who have never published a single statement about what they are doing, and never linked their avatar names to RL. Coldwell Banker has hooked up with them. Take your demands to Coldwell Banker, and to Code4software.

My request to you was to research the story more thoroughly –to see the real story behind the entry of these big companies, how they become dependent on the metaversal sherpas, how they are led astray (unless they are in fact consciously applauding the griefing and extortion these two are engaged in), how they listened to bad advisers who vilified the land barons of SL merely in order to up their own ante in the most disgusting way.

Try to see it as we do from the ground up: this CB project is achieved by two people who first made their SL fortunes by exorting sales at outrageous prices — $9345 Lindens for 16 m2 is outrageous even in the most bubbly of markets ($584/m vs. 30 or 50/m as the absolute highest of high-end prices)– to force people to buy back their view. Their ugly, spinning signs blight many a sim — forcing people to flee to the islands — or, as we shall see, to managed communities such as Coldwell Banker is about to run.

Coldwell Banker has some interesting concepts to try; it’s not about being against a RL company, David, and don’t mistake it as the natives bitching about the loss of their own business.

It’s that this entry is made *by deliberately chosing one set of avatars with bad reputations, vaunting them at the expense of others who have been harmed by these two*. It fuels that gleeful and vindictive cut-throat spirit of SL that we have come to hate.

I’m sorry you can’t see this. You will.

Note to Uri: why the suck-up? That’s not how you talk to the Crayonistas.

The problem isn’t being anonymous, the problem is using anonymity to be a trolling fucktard *shrugs*.

Because you are a *beneficiary* of the fetting and connections, Forseti, you can’t see this point — probably ever. People succeed on their own, by merit — sure, happens all the time. Does it happen in SL? No. They succeed by sucking up to the right divas and the right Lindens and the right powers-that-be.

Is that “life?” sure it’s “life”. But what’s wrong with it then? It’s especially skewed, wacky, and unjust in SL because there’s no recourse. There’s no internally free media; you are punished if you are too critical on the official blog. There’s no accountable and representative government. Decisions get made all the time by a tiny group of people (the Lindens) influenced by their friends (people like you).

What can we say, but that the Lindens, given that they run it because it’s theirs, need better friends. A bigger rolladex. A wider perspective. Who needs voice put in? Not anyone who actually logs in every day and pays most of the tier — collectively. Voice is only needed by a minority to show off SL as a “business platform”.

and so on — I’ve cited all the examples many time. Having inside connections to succeed isn’t the worse thing; even claiming that people FIRST succeed and THEN get connected isn’t at issue; it’s that anyone who *is* connected can then destroy others so rapidly and fully without recourse.

Like removing telehubs. Like putting in voice. Like trying to get traffic removed. Like 100 other features that are put first, because somebody needs them first (hiding avatars online) while other things, that people do need, like inworld transactions, are removed arbitrarily without discussion.

I would have expected that you’d admit that you were wrong by now, Forseti. We had this debate about whether corporations would add housing and services for individuals to their menu, and you denied it up and down when you put in Starwood. I kept saying in 100 places, including 3pointd.com and such, that OF COURSE these companies would figure out to come and offer avatar services. And so they have. Can you admit you were wrong now?

First, what exactly are you saying I would have discovered had I right-clicked on Coldwell’s land? You’re saying my story was uninformed and I’m not sure exactly what you object to.

I do think there are several noteworthy aspects of Coldwell’s entry that are new for Second Life:
-That a trusted well-known brand will stand behind real estate transactions. This is considerably different than Mr. Lee’s Hong Kong and I don’t understand your point there. Real brands matter because customer reactions have consequences that companies like Coldwell Banker have to take into consideration in their behavior.
-That Coldwell has committed to staffing its office regularly (specifically 9am-8pm EST). I do think this is important and not enough done at all in-world.

Your complaints about Carr’s quote are legitimate. But there are his views, not mine, even if I should have quoted comments from others. I was limited because of Coldwell’s embargo on the news, however. Mostly this was a news story.

Fyi, the software and content developer of the Coldwell Banker properties was Code4Software.

One correction: The criticism of the style and originality of the Coldwell properties that you attribute to Carr came from me, not him.

Finally, while I find such dialogue fascinating and indicative of the amazing passions that Second Life arouses, I also find it curious that you all are using only your avatar names and not, in addition, your real ones. That is not transparency. My own view is that even in Second Life it would be far preferable if people had the option of using their real names. If we want online experiences that are based on honesty and trust that is an elementary first step.

Thanks.