Hydrocodone.

Adderall make knees numb. Buy wholesale adderall. Adderall abuse. Adderall.

Buy hydrocodone without a prescription.

Every scripter in SL should hold you responsible for any lost products.

“We have our ways of figuring things out.”

It’s called “Mommy, can you tie my shoe?”

The PN can’t code their way out of a cup of plain yogurt, having thrown out all their genuine talent for being “spais”. Leaving all the spies still in the group. And with N3X15 gone, they’ve lost that too.

And anyway, Hazim is right, there are much better alternatives to this one bug that LL hasn’t fixed for years.

We have our ways of figuring these things out.

sorry if the above seems a bit off-topic but there IS a point…
go read “Time enough for love” if you can find a copy (mine is 3y aged more than myself)

2. It is apparent that Prokofy does not listen to nor wish to listen to those who actually know what they are talking about.

3. It is apparent that Prokofy actually thinks that each and every Second Life third party site is actually a part of second Life. Run a Blog? It is not your Avatar typing the words that get put up onto the screen.

4. Prokofy actually believes that the use of readily available information – even if it is pulled out of an article! – is somehow a high crime. it is not. from the moment that information is placed where anyone can read it …. it is no longer ‘private’. Time some faced that fact.

5. to place it in terms anyone can understand: to view some content it has to be sent to your computer. Your computer is run by hardware which is not manufactured by Linden Lab. The data is encrypted and obfuscated server side as well as in your disc cache. Your graphics card however cannot read data like that – it must be in a format that is notprotected by such things. do we know what this means? Correct children! It means that unless you want to buy an official Linden Lab graphics card, you’ll have to deal with the data being sent to your graphics card without the protections it has elsewhere. Deal with it like the rest of us, m’kay?

6. No amount of blathering, back tracking or any other sort of nonsense will change the above.

The attitude LL has taken towards it is obfuscation, encryption, making it a TOS violation, and opened DMCA process. That’s hardly saying “please copy their stuff”, now is it?

“Your use of my RL information to harass me on an SL forums is so noted. Your character is thus revealed.”

Harassment? Is it because, OH MY GOSH, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeskalinden/51713334/ I decide to address you on an out-world blog according to out-world practices based on publically available out-world information given by your out-world self?

>But we ARE talking about in-world scripts here,
“No, we’re not, the programming of third-party shopping sites is separate, even if connected to, SL.”
Except in this case it’s the Second Life part that is the issue. DUH.

“I fail to see how I’m supposed to tell the gender of a poster on the Herald, when their name has no marker. What sort of “memory” could one invoke here?”
No ma’am. You just conveniently failed to absorb the information last time it was given to you.

>Again, how? Please put up, or shut up.
“I’ll answer that one again: “Obviously World of Warcraft protects its copyrighted items”"
And the response is still the same, they don’t, any more than LL does. So you have no case pointing to WoW as a better example.

“I fail to see why not only that technology, but obfuscation and policies to punish copying inworld with more vigour can’t be used in SL. Only ideology hobbles it.”

The key word here is “I fail”, and what you fail at is seeing that obfuscation and policies are ALREADY in place to prevent copying. Idology is not some magic switch that can make something possible or impossible, it still has to pass the reality check.

>You have no CLUE to what you are talking about here Prokofy. WoW textures, shapes, objects, are NOT protected, your statement to the contrary is absurdly false.
“So? I’m perfectly capable of SEEING how that works without being some “expert”. I can still ASK THE QUESTION.”

You may ask the question, but you might want to back it up with facts and not outright false claims if you want to be taken seriously. You claim WoW does *more* to protect it’s textures, when in fact, they do NOT, or perhaps even less!

“WoW isn’t interested in seeing all their stuff copied, I’m fairly certain of that. There’s a notion of fans’ fair use in fan sites, but I doubt they want all the artwork and characters inworld copied.”

This is not in dispute. And based on the obfuscation, encryption and DMCA process LL has in place, LL doesn’t *want* their stuff copied either. The whole point of this is that dragging Blizzard into this as some sort of better example falls flat on it’s face.

“You’ve failed to answer — as tekkies of the extreme sort like yourself always do! — why obfuscation can’t work. This is what non-extreme tekkies explain can be done *shrugs*. You contradict yourself, too.”

Extreme? I suppose in your world anyone who disagrees with you is an extremist. It’s already been explained to you countless times.. Textures HAVE to be sent to the client to be seen. The client HAS to pass the un-obfuscated texture on to the graphics card in order for it to, gosh, display unobfuscated on your screen. Care to tell what part of this you don’t yet understand? I suppose if LL created and sold their own graphics cards, they could try to obfuscate it all the way to your screen and it would take a while longer before people figured it out how to break it, but that’s not realistic now is it?

“I think you’re making a blanket statement here that isn’t supportable. If another game company copied all WoW textures, i.e. builds, skins, furniture, etc. and popped them into a new game world, you’d be hearing “lawsuit”.”

Which is exactly what would happen if Blizzard ripped off all of Linden Labs textures and stuck them in WoW as well.

The fact of the matter is that SL and WoW are very similar here. WoW items are protected by permissions so they can’t be duplicated. Second Life items are ALSO protected, and both companies jump on it when that permission system is broken.

And here’s the crux of the matter: Both WoW and SL require OUTSIDE PROGRAMS to pull out textures and shapes. NEITHER LL nor Blizzard has found a way to prevent that. Your claim to the contrary does not hold water.

>LL has it’s permissions system, which DOES get fixed pretty sharp when it gets broken too, and if you recall, last time those permissions were broken they DID take the grid down quite a long time while fixing the bug and deleting copied items. They also HAVE encryption, the texture cache is encrypted.
“You’re still not answering the question, and you contradict yourself.”

I just answered it (again), and I invite you to point out where I’ve contradicted myself.

>What you’re saying is, again, simply false. So I ask *AGAIN*, what more do you want Linden Lab to do to protect textures? The Second Life Community holds it’s breath..
“Talk to the Sellers’ Guild? The textures maker and skinmakers who have lobbied LL for years? Who meet with them inworld? Who protest on the forums? Gosh, I didn’t make up this concept. Hold your breath til you turn blue, for all I care, this isn’t even my issue. Content creators have these concerns, have articulated them, and I merely summarize them here. If you are incapable of grasping them, I guess you missed that empathy window when it was open in your developmental phase.”

You’re still not answering the question. “Talk to the Sellers’ Guild?” is not going to automagically prevent texture copying, and is just a cheapshot attempt to avoid answering the question. What SHOULD LL do to prevent texture copying? As I’ve already explained, pointing to WoW as some superior model is a non-starter, so what other suggestions do you have? If you claim that LL could so easily prevent copying, you should have some facts to back it up, not just say “uhh, go talk to those other people, they probably know..”

“Um, you’re way off the mark? I guess you haven’t witnessed the nearly 3 years of history I have in SL where I’ve seen these groups do this over and over again? Read the old forums? Call the Sellers’ Guild? I dunno. I can’t break it down further than that, you are wilfully obdurate.”

lol, you’re even off the mark in your response. There’s no claim that these groups have not tried to talk to LL. What you’re off the mark with is that more “watermarking, date-stamping, obfuscation” is going to help the issue.

>Let’s go over your points here. Obfuscation? Already in place.
“No, it’s not. Not to the point of other companies and other settings. The Lindens are absolutely ideologically extreme on this. I have had long arguments with them — as have those with a far greater stake. Ultimately, they aren’t interested. And they don’t attempt to do much.”

Ok, this should be easy. They ARE obfuscating the textures for as long as they can, up to the point where it has to be sent to the graphics card. The texture cache is encrypted. What other companies manage to keep it more obfuscated? As I said, this should be easy for you to answer if what you say is correct.

“”In progress” is merely a shill, a stall, while they fend off critics until they can position themselves into open source. They have no intention of following this through. It’s a simple matter, in a world where land purchased gets a date stamp; where many other things get a date stamp. Every action and reaction in this world has an agent, place, and time. But they fail to put the resources into putting those obvious indicators probably already in the system somewhere into this effort, they don’t want to waste the programming time or the database space, obviously.”

Then get on the barricades and ask why this isn’t yet put into place. This would however NOT stop texture copying, it would merely make it easier to find who made copy and hound them til they stop, like I mentioned a few posts above.

“I have no idea about the technology involved in watermarking. I imagine alone, it’s insufficient.”

You answered your own question on this one, so I don’t have to. (hint: it involves “no idea about”)

>What it leads to is the protection of what can be protected, and TOS/Community enforcing of what simply cannot be protected by technology.
“I’d like to think that — but I don’t see it. They reject all DMCA related concerns and tell people to do it on their own. I find that cruel. They incite trouble, then do nothing about it. They shill people to come in here, create content for OTHER people to come in here, collect the money, then tell them whoops, we can’t help you if you have copyright concerns, go to a RL lawyer, pay them a mint, and follow the arduous RL process of protecting your creation. They have no tools in place to accelerate and streamline that the way they should, given the way they accelerate and streamline creation itself, to their advantage. I think that’s socially irresponsible.”

Granted. This does however not prevent copying, and, again, does not have anything to do with how you claim scripts are some holy grail and textures are not cared for. Let’s try another hypothesis. If some creator, a scripter, complains to LL and says someone else copied his scripts, would LL tell him to file a DMCA just like they would a texture copier? If so, then they are treated equally as far as possible.

“Um, I never had to shrug even, because gosh, all the little script kiddies and their more cretinous adult supervisors assured us that scripts could never, ever, ever EVER be copied.”

I think you missed the qualifier here. Will never be copied unless the permissions system gets broken. And when the permissions system gets broken, LL fix it, no matter if it’s textures, scripts or objects that get copied.

“And…wow! Guess what happened! The scripts became copyable! Could we hear “I told you so!” ring through the land? Could we hear a, “Oh, we were mistaken” from all those fucktards who claimed it could NEVER HAPPEN! Who patiently, as if reading to a 2 year old, spelled out S-E-R-V-E-R AND C-L-I-E-N-T duh??? So, you know? I’m not terribly worried for people who think something can never happen. I guess…it can never happen…and they don’t need me to worry about it.”

This has nothing to do with our discussion, and I’ve never claimed any of the above.

>”Copybot is in fact being used again, sold again, and there are allegations of prim hair theft again.”
>Except, well, where are all these copy shops at?
“A story is coming out soon on this? Why do you have trouble believing it? The script isn’t deprecated, the bots exist, and the exploit exists.”
I have no doubt there is a copybot out in the wild. What I’m asking is, where are these copy shops? I guess we’ll have to wait for your story.

Aside from the fact that not all scripts can be shut down centrally, would you want to have to get new copies of a script out to every user of that script after it’d been compromised *and* explain why their business had been disrupted in the meantime?

>So? I’m perfectly capable of SEEING how that works without being some “expert”. I can still ASK THE QUESTION. WoW isn’t interested in seeing all their stuff copied, I’m fairly certain of that. There’s a notion of fans’ fair use in fan sites, but I doubt they want all the artwork and characters inworld copied.
You’ve failed to answer — as tekkies of the extreme sort like yourself always do! — why obfuscation can’t work. This is what non-extreme tekkies explain can be done *shrugs*. You contradict yourself, too.

It can’t work because it is just obfuscation – if anyone cares, they’ll just figure out the obfuscation and pull out the data. After all, they have both the data and the code to decode it. I’m not aware of any game – including WoW – that has managed to stop users extracting the game data (models, textures, etc), and I don’t think they generally try that hard. (Even the movie industry has failed in their attempts to stop the decryption and copying of protected data, despite vast amounts of money and the ability to threaten lawsuits against anyone involved.)

(Also, Second Life was obfuscated to a point – the file defining the client-server protocol was encrypted, the protocol was confusing and difficult to understand, and the on-disk cache was also encrypted. Much of it still got reverse-engineered, and LL decided to co-operate with libsecondlife. I think this had something to do with the fact that they’d rather have libsecondlife find the security holes than people who’d exploit them for more nefarious means.)

>I think you’re making a blanket statement here that isn’t supportable. If another game company copied all WoW textures, i.e. builds, skins, furniture, etc. and popped them into a new game world, you’d be hearing “lawsuit”.

Yeah, but there’s no reason why in-world designers couldn’t launch a lawsuit against people copying their items either. (Aside, of course, from the fact that it’s probably not financially worthwhile.) This has nothing to do with the difficulty of copying textures.

>And…wow! Guess what happened! The scripts became copyable! Could we hear “I told you so!” ring through the land? Could we hear a, “Oh, we were mistaken” from all those fucktards who claimed it could NEVER HAPPEN! Who patiently, as if reading to a 2 year old, spelled out S-E-R-V-E-R AND C-L-I-E-N-T duh???

I shouldn’t really reply to trolls, but as I think I pointed out at the time, it’s not a case of “it could never happen”, and no-one with experience of SL should’ve said that. It is, however, true that it shouldn’t happen unless LL screw up. And guess what, they screwed up and broke the permissions system again, big surprise. (Copying textures and prims, on the other hand, just requires understanding the client – oh look, they’re giving out copies of it free on the website and have been since long before CopyBot.)

Oh, and yes, you were “retarded for not getting the difference between server and client”, if you really want to put it that way – or at least, for completely failing to even try and understand why it was important.