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	<title>Comments on: If Its Gambling &#8211; It&#8217;s Gone</title>
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	<description>Always Fairly Unbalanced</description>
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		<title>By: Father Jones</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24735</link>
		<dc:creator>Father Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24735</guid>
		<description>Second Life anno 2009: Too many people are still losing too much money on Zyngo. And it is for sure a gambling game first class. Even with the blue and green jokers, it is definitly a game of chance, like bingo is considered one. Talking about too much money, I mean like people playing for 1000 USD in one hour. Did you guys ever searched for high roller places with Zyngo? You can play machines there for 5000 (17 USD)up to 50000 Linden Dollars (175 USD) a game, with pots to win up to 1 million Linden Dollars (3500 USD). And that is what the creator of the game and the owners of those places call an innocent game of skill for fun? I wonder when someone will have the guts to bring this to the right people, the press, the financial company’s Linden Lab is depending on, and also of course the US government,… We are not only talking about Zyngo in this matter. There are lots of ‘zyngo-clones’ produced lately by other programmers that are made for the very same purpose: making huge money, not just the money you need to buy you a pair of shoes, a piece of land and a house to live in your virtual world. Millions of dollars are running around in this gamblingbusiness on Second Life. Anyone doubting my words: just take a look yourself inworld.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Second Life anno 2009: Too many people are still losing too much money on Zyngo. And it is for sure a gambling game first class. Even with the blue and green jokers, it is definitly a game of chance, like bingo is considered one. Talking about too much money, I mean like people playing for 1000 USD in one hour. Did you guys ever searched for high roller places with Zyngo? You can play machines there for 5000 (17 USD)up to 50000 Linden Dollars (175 USD) a game, with pots to win up to 1 million Linden Dollars (3500 USD). And that is what the creator of the game and the owners of those places call an innocent game of skill for fun? I wonder when someone will have the guts to bring this to the right people, the press, the financial company’s Linden Lab is depending on, and also of course the US government,… We are not only talking about Zyngo in this matter. There are lots of ‘zyngo-clones’ produced lately by other programmers that are made for the very same purpose: making huge money, not just the money you need to buy you a pair of shoes, a piece of land and a house to live in your virtual world. Millions of dollars are running around in this gamblingbusiness on Second Life. Anyone doubting my words: just take a look yourself inworld.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisae Boucher</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24734</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisae Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24734</guid>
		<description>Because of those risks, the only person with whom I share happens to be my girlfriend and since we even share a room, no problems. :-)
And advertising can happen in many forms, not just with big banners. Just consider putting a camping chair somewhere in a room full commercials. Maybe give the campers a notecard even with some advertisements in it. Or use some other trick to keep visitors to interact with something that also gives out advertisements. I have quite a few useful ideas about that but if I share them all here, I&#039;d lose my job. :-)
The anti-ad farm? Yeah, am supporting them since ad-farms are useless. There&#039;s an ad-farm next to one of my lands promoting Jesus and I don&#039;t see many visitors there either. Then again, religion might also be something that will attract more visitors. Or maybe something else, but something will just replace it. People are creative that way.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because of those risks, the only person with whom I share happens to be my girlfriend and since we even share a room, no problems. <img src='http://alphavilleherald.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
And advertising can happen in many forms, not just with big banners. Just consider putting a camping chair somewhere in a room full commercials. Maybe give the campers a notecard even with some advertisements in it. Or use some other trick to keep visitors to interact with something that also gives out advertisements. I have quite a few useful ideas about that but if I share them all here, I&#8217;d lose my job. <img src='http://alphavilleherald.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
The anti-ad farm? Yeah, am supporting them since ad-farms are useless. There&#8217;s an ad-farm next to one of my lands promoting Jesus and I don&#8217;t see many visitors there either. Then again, religion might also be something that will attract more visitors. Or maybe something else, but something will just replace it. People are creative that way.</p>
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		<title>By: SqueezeOne Pow</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24733</link>
		<dc:creator>SqueezeOne Pow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24733</guid>
		<description>Well Lisae, risk is inherent in anything where everyone is anonymous and has a good chance of escaping any consequences of their actions. This is why I don&#039;t take SL very seriously and why I don&#039;t share with anyone!

I wouldn&#039;t be too sure about the advertising, though. RL corporations are on their way out because their advertising projects were utter failures. SL companies already have their ways to advertise and there is a steadily-growing anti-ad farm movement that has been gaining momentum...not to say LL will listen to anyone&#039;s complaints but you never know!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Lisae, risk is inherent in anything where everyone is anonymous and has a good chance of escaping any consequences of their actions. This is why I don&#8217;t take SL very seriously and why I don&#8217;t share with anyone!</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t be too sure about the advertising, though. RL corporations are on their way out because their advertising projects were utter failures. SL companies already have their ways to advertise and there is a steadily-growing anti-ad farm movement that has been gaining momentum&#8230;not to say LL will listen to anyone&#8217;s complaints but you never know!</p>
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		<title>By: Lisae Boucher</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24732</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisae Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24732</guid>
		<description>SqueezeOne, I&#039;m not upset either since my land itself doesn&#039;t generate any profit by itself. Am renting spaces to others for a ridiculous low price even, not to make a profit but just to generate a bit more traffic. It&#039;s more a place to promote myself but since someone hired my SL skills for a few months I&#039;m not even available anymore.

For most people, owning land is a good way for self-promotion but it does mean you need something to offer. A simple mall could be okay but reality is that they&#039;re unlikely to generate huge profits. Especially newbies are not likely to pay huge amounts just for the ownership of a couple of bits and bytes.

I think getting rid of casino&#039;s will mean that more companies will start using SL for advertisements. I myself have already considered making big signs to put on my land which others could rent to have their banners displayed. Preferably with a landmark linked to the image. And if gambling is banned, I think many will use advertisements as the next big commercial enterprise within SL.

I do wonder how many people are working on large non-profit projects, though. Land equals prims and large projects need quite a few prims. You could work together as a group, though. Buy some group land and let every member pay her share. But can you trust all the group member? There&#039;s always a chance that the group owner would just kick out everyone who donated land and then keep it all for himself.

I&#039;m still not convinced that the loss of casino and gambling will have a big impact on the SL economy. Something will replace it, probably advertising... :-)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SqueezeOne, I&#8217;m not upset either since my land itself doesn&#8217;t generate any profit by itself. Am renting spaces to others for a ridiculous low price even, not to make a profit but just to generate a bit more traffic. It&#8217;s more a place to promote myself but since someone hired my SL skills for a few months I&#8217;m not even available anymore.</p>
<p>For most people, owning land is a good way for self-promotion but it does mean you need something to offer. A simple mall could be okay but reality is that they&#8217;re unlikely to generate huge profits. Especially newbies are not likely to pay huge amounts just for the ownership of a couple of bits and bytes.</p>
<p>I think getting rid of casino&#8217;s will mean that more companies will start using SL for advertisements. I myself have already considered making big signs to put on my land which others could rent to have their banners displayed. Preferably with a landmark linked to the image. And if gambling is banned, I think many will use advertisements as the next big commercial enterprise within SL.</p>
<p>I do wonder how many people are working on large non-profit projects, though. Land equals prims and large projects need quite a few prims. You could work together as a group, though. Buy some group land and let every member pay her share. But can you trust all the group member? There&#8217;s always a chance that the group owner would just kick out everyone who donated land and then keep it all for himself.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still not convinced that the loss of casino and gambling will have a big impact on the SL economy. Something will replace it, probably advertising&#8230; <img src='http://alphavilleherald.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stacey Sugar</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24731</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacey Sugar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24731</guid>
		<description>Wondering if the banning of casino games was one of the ways LindenLabs could improve the top 20 popular place list, since the majority on the list prior to the gambling ban were camping &amp; casinos. I heard that LindenLabs were going to do something to make the popular place list more of benefit to users, than just casinos &amp; camping grounds. Banning of casino games would in some way affect the top 20 listing.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wondering if the banning of casino games was one of the ways LindenLabs could improve the top 20 popular place list, since the majority on the list prior to the gambling ban were camping &#038; casinos. I heard that LindenLabs were going to do something to make the popular place list more of benefit to users, than just casinos &#038; camping grounds. Banning of casino games would in some way affect the top 20 listing.</p>
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		<title>By: SqueezeOne Pow</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24730</link>
		<dc:creator>SqueezeOne Pow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24730</guid>
		<description>Lisae:

I was never concerned about the tier because that actually goes toward the game to me. I was annoyed that I&#039;d have to pay 2 month&#039;s tier just to BUY a 1024m2 plot (for example) and pay tier ON TOP OF THAT!!

And people who like to build and do creative, non-profit type things with their land aren&#039;t likely to be too upset if the value goes down for a while. It&#039;s bound to go back up once things level out.

I&#039;m just patiently waiting for the exodus of angry ex-gamblers and ageplayers to free up the servers!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisae:</p>
<p>I was never concerned about the tier because that actually goes toward the game to me. I was annoyed that I&#8217;d have to pay 2 month&#8217;s tier just to BUY a 1024m2 plot (for example) and pay tier ON TOP OF THAT!!</p>
<p>And people who like to build and do creative, non-profit type things with their land aren&#8217;t likely to be too upset if the value goes down for a while. It&#8217;s bound to go back up once things level out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just patiently waiting for the exodus of angry ex-gamblers and ageplayers to free up the servers!</p>
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		<title>By: Non Compliant</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24729</link>
		<dc:creator>Non Compliant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24729</guid>
		<description>How the new policy effects you

New &amp; Existing Residents:

CAMPING - 98% of all camping was funded &amp; brought to us by casino&#039;s running
slot machines.. New residents as well as existing residents camp to pay
tiers on their homes, buy clothes, furniture &amp; other objects.. Slot machines
were first introduced to Second Life by Philip Linden.. NOW BANNED

SPLODERS, RAFFLE BALLS &amp; GAMES OF CHANCE AT CLUBS - every club in Second
Life has or had sploders, raffle balls &amp; games of chance allowing anyone to
enter for a small fee &amp; trying their luck at winning a piece of the pot...
though not specifically listed they all fall under the broad description of
the new policy.. NOW BANNED

KENO, SLINGO, TRINGO, ZYNGO etc. - all lotteries relying on a random number
generation to pick a winner.. all a major source of many residents income in
SL. These games were something everyone could do &amp; many paid their tiers off
the prizes &amp; profits... though not all specifically listed they all fall
under the broad description of the new policy.. NOW BANNED

EMPLOYMENT - Casino&#039;s &amp; Poker Houses employed thousands of residents in
Second Life.. Dealers, Hosts, Security, Scriptors, Builders, etc..
Legitimate employment, a job you could be proud of &amp; didnt have to hide from
your Real Life family.. a job that didnt force you to sell your avatar for
anothers pleasure or be nude/nearly nude to work at.. a job where people
respected you &amp; didnt treat you like a piece of meat only there for their
pleasure. These employees purchased millions of items, houses, clothes etc
in second life.. NO INCOME .. NO PURCHASING..

LIVE MUSIC - think the new policy &amp; lack of lindens flowing in SL from
gambling, casino&#039;s, poker houses, wont effect it.. think again.. each live
artist charges an average of 3,000L or more per hour they play at a venue,
most listeners dont tip the venues or tip very little.. they give it to the
artist.. the average venue doesnt even recoup 1/3 the cost of the artist
back in tips/donations.... most places live artists play are in some way
supported by some form of gambling, sploders, raffle balls, games of chance
&amp; those gamblers, owners &amp; employees of casino&#039;s &amp; poker houses.. the
lindens are no longer flowing, the casino&#039;s &amp; clubs are closing or reducing
thier overhead.. fewer places for live artists to play &amp; even fewer that can
afford to bring them to thier venues. .

All this because of the law in some states of the US not all i might add.
The reason for this law has nothing to so with tight assed christian
faux-moralists. It is simply that the gambling industry in Las Vegas and
Atlantic City went to the US Congress, to whom they are a major comapign
contributor, and asked for the law because they felt online gambling might
cut into their revenue. Simple as that.

Please sign this petition http://www.thekonstrukt.com click on the picture
for gambling and any others you may come across, if we stick at it and dont
spend any lindens it will hit LL hard they may have to weight up this
against cost of moving servers offshore from the police state supposed to be
land of the free USA.

Oh and a word of warning. New laws were recently passed regarding internet radio stations. LL do not offer what is played on these streams in exactly the way they dont offer online gambling, whether it is pirated or not, whether the stream is licensed or not. You can soon expect those to go away next. That would effect all radio streams within Second Life, independant dj&#039;s, live musicians, clubs, etc. Don&#039;t think it will happen? If you thought you were safe, think again.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How the new policy effects you</p>
<p>New &#038; Existing Residents:</p>
<p>CAMPING &#8211; 98% of all camping was funded &#038; brought to us by casino&#8217;s running<br />
slot machines.. New residents as well as existing residents camp to pay<br />
tiers on their homes, buy clothes, furniture &#038; other objects.. Slot machines<br />
were first introduced to Second Life by Philip Linden.. NOW BANNED</p>
<p>SPLODERS, RAFFLE BALLS &#038; GAMES OF CHANCE AT CLUBS &#8211; every club in Second<br />
Life has or had sploders, raffle balls &#038; games of chance allowing anyone to<br />
enter for a small fee &#038; trying their luck at winning a piece of the pot&#8230;<br />
though not specifically listed they all fall under the broad description of<br />
the new policy.. NOW BANNED</p>
<p>KENO, SLINGO, TRINGO, ZYNGO etc. &#8211; all lotteries relying on a random number<br />
generation to pick a winner.. all a major source of many residents income in<br />
SL. These games were something everyone could do &#038; many paid their tiers off<br />
the prizes &#038; profits&#8230; though not all specifically listed they all fall<br />
under the broad description of the new policy.. NOW BANNED</p>
<p>EMPLOYMENT &#8211; Casino&#8217;s &#038; Poker Houses employed thousands of residents in<br />
Second Life.. Dealers, Hosts, Security, Scriptors, Builders, etc..<br />
Legitimate employment, a job you could be proud of &#038; didnt have to hide from<br />
your Real Life family.. a job that didnt force you to sell your avatar for<br />
anothers pleasure or be nude/nearly nude to work at.. a job where people<br />
respected you &#038; didnt treat you like a piece of meat only there for their<br />
pleasure. These employees purchased millions of items, houses, clothes etc<br />
in second life.. NO INCOME .. NO PURCHASING..</p>
<p>LIVE MUSIC &#8211; think the new policy &#038; lack of lindens flowing in SL from<br />
gambling, casino&#8217;s, poker houses, wont effect it.. think again.. each live<br />
artist charges an average of 3,000L or more per hour they play at a venue,<br />
most listeners dont tip the venues or tip very little.. they give it to the<br />
artist.. the average venue doesnt even recoup 1/3 the cost of the artist<br />
back in tips/donations&#8230;. most places live artists play are in some way<br />
supported by some form of gambling, sploders, raffle balls, games of chance<br />
&#038; those gamblers, owners &#038; employees of casino&#8217;s &#038; poker houses.. the<br />
lindens are no longer flowing, the casino&#8217;s &#038; clubs are closing or reducing<br />
thier overhead.. fewer places for live artists to play &#038; even fewer that can<br />
afford to bring them to thier venues. .</p>
<p>All this because of the law in some states of the US not all i might add.<br />
The reason for this law has nothing to so with tight assed christian<br />
faux-moralists. It is simply that the gambling industry in Las Vegas and<br />
Atlantic City went to the US Congress, to whom they are a major comapign<br />
contributor, and asked for the law because they felt online gambling might<br />
cut into their revenue. Simple as that.</p>
<p>Please sign this petition <a href="http://www.thekonstrukt.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thekonstrukt.com</a> click on the picture<br />
for gambling and any others you may come across, if we stick at it and dont<br />
spend any lindens it will hit LL hard they may have to weight up this<br />
against cost of moving servers offshore from the police state supposed to be<br />
land of the free USA.</p>
<p>Oh and a word of warning. New laws were recently passed regarding internet radio stations. LL do not offer what is played on these streams in exactly the way they dont offer online gambling, whether it is pirated or not, whether the stream is licensed or not. You can soon expect those to go away next. That would effect all radio streams within Second Life, independant dj&#8217;s, live musicians, clubs, etc. Don&#8217;t think it will happen? If you thought you were safe, think again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lisae Boucher</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24728</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisae Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24728</guid>
		<description>Good point, SqueezeOne...
But it&#039;s the tier that makes land expensive, not the price of the land itself. It would actually be bad if land prices drop for those who already have large amounts of land. (Like me, I own half a region.) If land prices go down, it actually means that current land owners might lose a lot of money, thus they start selling as long as it has still some value. Which would result in prices going even lower until the land price itself is worthless. And then what, when the big landowners are gone and everyone has a small patch of 512 sq.m or less?
But then again, I don&#039;t think the loss of casino&#039;s will have a big impact. Most sane people won&#039;t even trust those casino&#039;s that are online in SL since you never know if they will pay out.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, SqueezeOne&#8230;<br />
But it&#8217;s the tier that makes land expensive, not the price of the land itself. It would actually be bad if land prices drop for those who already have large amounts of land. (Like me, I own half a region.) If land prices go down, it actually means that current land owners might lose a lot of money, thus they start selling as long as it has still some value. Which would result in prices going even lower until the land price itself is worthless. And then what, when the big landowners are gone and everyone has a small patch of 512 sq.m or less?<br />
But then again, I don&#8217;t think the loss of casino&#8217;s will have a big impact. Most sane people won&#8217;t even trust those casino&#8217;s that are online in SL since you never know if they will pay out.</p>
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		<title>By: SqueezeOne Pow</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24727</link>
		<dc:creator>SqueezeOne Pow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24727</guid>
		<description>Well, as someone who owns land in order to build and enjoy myself on it instead of trying to make a profit off of it, I look forward to the drop in prices! I have a few ideas for huge builds that I&#039;d like to make a reality. The falling land prices might encourage some free guys to go premium...if the fucking game ever started working again after this weekend!!!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, as someone who owns land in order to build and enjoy myself on it instead of trying to make a profit off of it, I look forward to the drop in prices! I have a few ideas for huge builds that I&#8217;d like to make a reality. The falling land prices might encourage some free guys to go premium&#8230;if the fucking game ever started working again after this weekend!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jessica Holyoke</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/07/if-its-gambling.html/comment-page-1#comment-24726</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica Holyoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1161#comment-24726</guid>
		<description>I think Tony has a comment that should be responded to more widely. A few months back, I was involved with some of the Robin Linden Office hours regarding the &quot;Broadly Offensive&quot; limitations that the Labs were trying to impose on the residents.  Their standard then, as now, is whether or not they will allow the content if it is bad for the community overall. Which was then described as whether it was good for the Labs&#039; overall business growth and they reserved the right to determine what bad for overall business growth might be.

And while there might have been no event or investigation that precipated this decision, even though the FBI did not render an opinion on gambling in SL when they investigated back in April, that can still mean that the Lindens made the policy change in response to a change of law.

But it can also be a business decision to not involve themselves in fraud investigations, and potential future lawsuits, of casino transactions that go bad.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Tony has a comment that should be responded to more widely. A few months back, I was involved with some of the Robin Linden Office hours regarding the &#8220;Broadly Offensive&#8221; limitations that the Labs were trying to impose on the residents.  Their standard then, as now, is whether or not they will allow the content if it is bad for the community overall. Which was then described as whether it was good for the Labs&#8217; overall business growth and they reserved the right to determine what bad for overall business growth might be.</p>
<p>And while there might have been no event or investigation that precipated this decision, even though the FBI did not render an opinion on gambling in SL when they investigated back in April, that can still mean that the Lindens made the policy change in response to a change of law.</p>
<p>But it can also be a business decision to not involve themselves in fraud investigations, and potential future lawsuits, of casino transactions that go bad.</p>
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