Comments on: Trouble in Elfville http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html Always Fairly Unbalanced Tue, 04 Oct 2016 13:18:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Yichard Muni http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24274 Yichard Muni Wed, 03 Oct 2007 07:56:05 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24274 I am flabbergasted, when reading all this nasty stuff written here about Elves: how, you visited elven lands, and you did not noticed the friendly people, interesting activities, nice lands, beautiful houses, large turnover, calm and harmonious ambiance, superb musics, which are however praised by everybody. Wow! How you did that? For this my only answer whould be "WAH AH AH AH AH LOLOLOL ROFL" if is was not so sad for you, poetry-disabled and emotion-blind people, who see the world dirty through your dirty glasses. The lies: 1) Camo was not banned, he resigned himself. His case was certainly troubling, but must we all forever renounce to happiness for this? 2) Heed was not banned for the opinions he expressed, but because he infringed on OUR freedom of expression, by disrupting our events, as this clearly appears from the paper by BB Balderdash. All this mountain of drama added on some little stones of individual disputes just resulted into harming all the community, killing many groups and initiatives. If at least this discussion intended to find solutions to human problems. But no, it was just for the fun of slinging mud in everybody's face. Lame. You know, I have Tibetan friends in RL, and I perfectly know what it means when unpleasant people show up to "liberate" us. You leftists wasted so many worthy social movements in RL, so I shall not let you create mess in our world of dreams and hopes. This is a personnal statement, what I feel. I am in no way an official speaker of any group or community. I am flabbergasted, when reading all this nasty stuff written here about Elves: how, you visited elven lands, and you did not noticed the friendly people, interesting activities, nice lands, beautiful houses, large turnover, calm and harmonious ambiance, superb musics, which are however praised by everybody. Wow! How you did that? For this my only answer whould be “WAH AH AH AH AH LOLOLOL ROFL” if is was not so sad for you, poetry-disabled and emotion-blind people, who see the world dirty through your dirty glasses.

The lies:
1) Camo was not banned, he resigned himself. His case was certainly troubling, but must we all forever renounce to happiness for this?
2) Heed was not banned for the opinions he expressed, but because he infringed on OUR freedom of expression, by disrupting our events, as this clearly appears from the paper by BB Balderdash.

All this mountain of drama added on some little stones of individual disputes just resulted into harming all the community, killing many groups and initiatives. If at least this discussion intended to find solutions to human problems. But no, it was just for the fun of slinging mud in everybody’s face. Lame.

You know, I have Tibetan friends in RL, and I perfectly know what it means when unpleasant people show up to “liberate” us. You leftists wasted so many worthy social movements in RL, so I shall not let you create mess in our world of dreams and hopes.

This is a personnal statement, what I feel. I am in no way an official speaker of any group or community.

]]> By: Wayfinder Wishbringer http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24273 Wayfinder Wishbringer Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:56:38 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24273 File, good comment. Lots of good points. It's a fact of SL that since one never knows who is on the other end of an avatar, that gorgeous chick could always in reality be a pot-bellied, beer-swilling 70 year old male. So folks should be aware up front that they're taking their chances. That doesn't justify Armandi reperesenting himself as a RL girl as well as an SL girl. That goes beyond RP. A lie is a lie no matter where and how it's told. I am certainly aware of Armandi's history with Elf Clan and can sympathise with Camo's claims of betrayal. To be totally honest however, if this sort of thing had happened in Elf Clan, I probably would have made the same decision Forcythia made here (gasp!). Taking personal matters to a public forum so that it disrupts group activities is what we term "drama". Our Charter has rules against drama, we have a "No Drama" sign up in our entryway to ElvenMyst, and more than one person has been banned for "drama queen" activities (one just last week, in fact). When someone disrupts the harmony of our group, that someone becomes quickly unwelcome. But also to be frank, I find it amusing that Camo was banned from Elf Circle for the very same reason that Forcythia was banned from Elf Clan. She was removed from office for misconduct of that office, but she still remained a member of the group. She wasn't banned until she went drama queen and started a very public civil war. LOL. Like they say, what goes around, comes around. Now she's in the founder chair and has to deal with all the garbage I dealt with a year ago. Seems fitting somehow. File, good comment. Lots of good points. It’s a fact of SL that since one never knows who is on the other end of an avatar, that gorgeous chick could always in reality be a pot-bellied, beer-swilling 70 year old male. So folks should be aware up front that they’re taking their chances. That doesn’t justify Armandi reperesenting himself as a RL girl as well as an SL girl. That goes beyond RP. A lie is a lie no matter where and how it’s told. I am certainly aware of Armandi’s history with Elf Clan and can sympathise with Camo’s claims of betrayal.

To be totally honest however, if this sort of thing had happened in Elf Clan, I probably would have made the same decision Forcythia made here (gasp!). Taking personal matters to a public forum so that it disrupts group activities is what we term “drama”. Our Charter has rules against drama, we have a “No Drama” sign up in our entryway to ElvenMyst, and more than one person has been banned for “drama queen” activities (one just last week, in fact). When someone disrupts the harmony of our group, that someone becomes quickly unwelcome.

But also to be frank, I find it amusing that Camo was banned from Elf Circle for the very same reason that Forcythia was banned from Elf Clan. She was removed from office for misconduct of that office, but she still remained a member of the group. She wasn’t banned until she went drama queen and started a very public civil war. LOL. Like they say, what goes around, comes around. Now she’s in the founder chair and has to deal with all the garbage I dealt with a year ago. Seems fitting somehow.

]]> By: File Surface http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24272 File Surface Thu, 06 Sep 2007 13:41:37 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24272 I must first address this, since it has appeared to become an issue again, I am (and have been) a member of Elf Clan and later Elf Circle. I actually maintain both simultainiously and have never engaged in the heated disputes between both sides. Historically, both sides have perpetrated issues with the other. However, other than the initial confusion and hostility that comes with any such event as a group breaking or a controversial issue, the main conflict then tends to be brought up again and fought by individuals. Here, neither GROUP, as a group, has continued hostilities against the other. Members have. As have random, ungrouped, passerby and guest. There have been alts, there have been smarmy comments, there have been isolated flames and confrontations, but as a whole, both GROUPS have conducted themselves with tact. That being said, THIS article is less about Elf Circle/Elf Clan than about a personal relationship that went sour. Less about that relationship than about how the individuals handled that break. Unfortunately, there is a history between Elf Circle/Elf Clan that is less than savory however you look at it, but THIS article isn't the place to bring it back up. Here, once more, the problem is with an individual who decided that instead of handling a character issue privately, that the individual should make a (continued) public display that was both disruptive and against the stated, understood, and publicly available policy of the region in which that individual was present. Sadly, this means that, despite a wonderful environment and group of people with like minded views of a fantasy realm, the member was banned from the group and lands. That is not a response to the private relationship, but rather a response to the public nuisance that came from it. In another forum, such behaivor may be made more apparent - the theater analogy is wonderful, but perhaps this might also illustrate: at a job, in a school, at a concert, in the military, in a courtroom... if a party was previously in a relationship with the higher up (the boss, the teacher/department head, the lead, a superior officer, the judge), that individual does not have the right or priviledge of challenging the other party publicly. The matter is resolved privately and away from the public eye. If it comes up, it is directed to a private scenario or the party who does not have understood and acknoledged authority is in some way INSTANTLY penalized. A boss may dock pay, suspend or fire an employee. A teacher may have the student removed from class, fail the student, or have the student expelled. A concert performer may fire the individual, challenge vocally, or removed rights to the material. A military superior may demote, punish, or even try the inferior officer for any number of actions. A judge may place the attorney in contempt, sanction, fine, rule against the ATTORNEY (as opposed the the client), or report the attorney to the bar association. This situation, though regretable, does not seem to have been a matter of public concern. It did not stem from a situation of control or corruption. The two parties (gender aside) were not unlike any other virtual individuals....a collection of electrons, programs, sub routines, and computing components set in motion and controlled by HUMAN individuals for their own purposes. Sadly, this means that HUMANS will be the ones to control and direct their avatars. It also means that HUMANS, not their avatars, are responcible for the actions and choices that those characters make. This means that should the human behind one party decide to change the avatar's gender, that human has made that decision. And likewise, is means that should the other human decide to address that change as problematic, their decision to make that apparent to any and all IS their decision to do so. Compounding this, the decision to make that statement public, disruptive, continuous, and detrimental to others is likewise their HUMAN's decision. Since joining a group makes an agreement to follow that group's protocals, beliefs, guidelines, rules, and the like, in return for being a member of the group, it is what is concidered a contract. Legally, the group charter means nothing. But it satisfies all the standard parameters...it has an offer (these things will be made available to you, this land will be traversable to you, you will have capacities a guest may not have in certain regions, we will aknowledge you as a participating individual while your group tag is active, you will be allowed to have the title noted by your group position, etc...along with the restrictions and guidelines), an acceptance (clicking the little button in the group window that says 'join'), and concideration (the aformentioned benefits). This means that even if there is a problem, even with the so called (but not legally recognized) free speach, the individual has agreed to (on private servers under a private agreement) conduct themselves in a particular manner whilst in a particular virtual region while maintaining that association. Short version, when you join a group, you agree to their unilaterally decided and set rules, guidelines, and BEHAIVIOR, in addition to whatever else may be indicated. Violations of these agreements can be, and often are, decided unilaterally. The fact that this particular region has a hierarchy is notable, but irrelevant. The behavior exhibitted defies the agreement previously made, voiding the protection of the GRANTED rights of the individual as made in that aggreement. By choosing to pursue other methods than those described and allowed under the agreement, the individual submits themselves to the noted authorities and consequences. Although people make choices everyday, sometimes they make choices that are ill advised. Spitting on a police officer for giving you a ticket (when you were travelling 20 miles over the limit) may be a direct expression of your frustration, anger, and spite, but it is also an act that will come with consequences. Likewise, should you show up at the officer's house during a block party while parading pictures of mutilated children and saying it is because the officer gave you a ticket, you will be penalized. Forget the fact that pictures have nothing to do with a ticket, the behavior you exhibit is inflamitory, socially unacceptable, and a violation of protocal that is aggreed upon by all that live within that region of society (as protected under a city ordinance, county ordinance, state code, federal law, or international accord). As such, EVEN a protected capacity (like free speach or expression) has noted, stated, recorded, debated, and accepted limits. The article is a documentation of one individual who chose to make a public smear of another. Sorry to hear that your digital companion wasn't the fantasy species, capable of spontainious creation, flight able, teleporting, physics challenged, food optional, uninjurable, gender that you were hoping for. I hope your optional inclusion in a mutual fiction isn't as detrimental to your real psychi as it makes you sound. Happy fiction. I must first address this, since it has appeared to become an issue again, I am (and have been) a member of Elf Clan and later Elf Circle. I actually maintain both simultainiously and have never engaged in the heated disputes between both sides.
Historically, both sides have perpetrated issues with the other. However, other than the initial confusion and hostility that comes with any such event as a group breaking or a controversial issue, the main conflict then tends to be brought up again and fought by individuals. Here, neither GROUP, as a group, has continued hostilities against the other. Members have. As have random, ungrouped, passerby and guest. There have been alts, there have been smarmy comments, there have been isolated flames and confrontations, but as a whole, both GROUPS have conducted themselves with tact.
That being said, THIS article is less about Elf Circle/Elf Clan than about a personal relationship that went sour. Less about that relationship than about how the individuals handled that break.
Unfortunately, there is a history between Elf Circle/Elf Clan that is less than savory however you look at it, but THIS article isn’t the place to bring it back up.
Here, once more, the problem is with an individual who decided that instead of handling a character issue privately, that the individual should make a (continued) public display that was both disruptive and against the stated, understood, and publicly available policy of the region in which that individual was present.
Sadly, this means that, despite a wonderful environment and group of people with like minded views of a fantasy realm, the member was banned from the group and lands. That is not a response to the private relationship, but rather a response to the public nuisance that came from it.
In another forum, such behaivor may be made more apparent – the theater analogy is wonderful, but perhaps this might also illustrate: at a job, in a school, at a concert, in the military, in a courtroom… if a party was previously in a relationship with the higher up (the boss, the teacher/department head, the lead, a superior officer, the judge), that individual does not have the right or priviledge of challenging the other party publicly. The matter is resolved privately and away from the public eye. If it comes up, it is directed to a private scenario or the party who does not have understood and acknoledged authority is in some way INSTANTLY penalized. A boss may dock pay, suspend or fire an employee. A teacher may have the student removed from class, fail the student, or have the student expelled. A concert performer may fire the individual, challenge vocally, or removed rights to the material. A military superior may demote, punish, or even try the inferior officer for any number of actions. A judge may place the attorney in contempt, sanction, fine, rule against the ATTORNEY (as opposed the the client), or report the attorney to the bar association.
This situation, though regretable, does not seem to have been a matter of public concern. It did not stem from a situation of control or corruption. The two parties (gender aside) were not unlike any other virtual individuals….a collection of electrons, programs, sub routines, and computing components set in motion and controlled by HUMAN individuals for their own purposes.
Sadly, this means that HUMANS will be the ones to control and direct their avatars. It also means that HUMANS, not their avatars, are responcible for the actions and choices that those characters make.
This means that should the human behind one party decide to change the avatar’s gender, that human has made that decision. And likewise, is means that should the other human decide to address that change as problematic, their decision to make that apparent to any and all IS their decision to do so. Compounding this, the decision to make that statement public, disruptive, continuous, and detrimental to others is likewise their HUMAN’s decision.
Since joining a group makes an agreement to follow that group’s protocals, beliefs, guidelines, rules, and the like, in return for being a member of the group, it is what is concidered a contract. Legally, the group charter means nothing. But it satisfies all the standard parameters…it has an offer (these things will be made available to you, this land will be traversable to you, you will have capacities a guest may not have in certain regions, we will aknowledge you as a participating individual while your group tag is active, you will be allowed to have the title noted by your group position, etc…along with the restrictions and guidelines), an acceptance (clicking the little button in the group window that says ‘join’), and concideration (the aformentioned benefits). This means that even if there is a problem, even with the so called (but not legally recognized) free speach, the individual has agreed to (on private servers under a private agreement) conduct themselves in a particular manner whilst in a particular virtual region while maintaining that association.
Short version, when you join a group, you agree to their unilaterally decided and set rules, guidelines, and BEHAIVIOR, in addition to whatever else may be indicated. Violations of these agreements can be, and often are, decided unilaterally. The fact that this particular region has a hierarchy is notable, but irrelevant. The behavior exhibitted defies the agreement previously made, voiding the protection of the GRANTED rights of the individual as made in that aggreement. By choosing to pursue other methods than those described and allowed under the agreement, the individual submits themselves to the noted authorities and consequences.
Although people make choices everyday, sometimes they make choices that are ill advised. Spitting on a police officer for giving you a ticket (when you were travelling 20 miles over the limit) may be a direct expression of your frustration, anger, and spite, but it is also an act that will come with consequences. Likewise, should you show up at the officer’s house during a block party while parading pictures of mutilated children and saying it is because the officer gave you a ticket, you will be penalized. Forget the fact that pictures have nothing to do with a ticket, the behavior you exhibit is inflamitory, socially unacceptable, and a violation of protocal that is aggreed upon by all that live within that region of society (as protected under a city ordinance, county ordinance, state code, federal law, or international accord). As such, EVEN a protected capacity (like free speach or expression) has noted, stated, recorded, debated, and accepted limits.
The article is a documentation of one individual who chose to make a public smear of another. Sorry to hear that your digital companion wasn’t the fantasy species, capable of spontainious creation, flight able, teleporting, physics challenged, food optional, uninjurable, gender that you were hoping for. I hope your optional inclusion in a mutual fiction isn’t as detrimental to your real psychi as it makes you sound.
Happy fiction.

]]> By: Blinders Off http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24271 Blinders Off Mon, 03 Sep 2007 00:22:35 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24271 Quote from article: Camus eventually quit the group when “it became clear to me Forcythia was more concerned about building an empire than with the harm done to individuals.” From what I've seen in the above posts, this is the crux of the matter. That's what Wayfinder claimed. That's what the evidence appears to indicate. It seems that is the main objection by members of Elf Circle. Leaving someone like this in a position of group responsibility is a questionable leadership decision. In this one case, I'd have to agree with the people who say that the group Founder doesn't have the right to do whatever she wants in that group. Normally I wouldn't say that, except it seems to be what she and her founding officers said of the leader of Elf Clan. By their claims he didn't have the right to remove her from office for the things she was doing in ripping off the first group. What applies to one applies to the other. If Forcythia has the right to do whatever she wants, then so did Wayfinder and she was rightfully removed from office and did rip off Elf Clan. Sounds like a bunch of drama with a side order of two-faced thrown in. People of Elf Circle should have at least some say in who is in positions of responsibility in that group. Considering that this guy totally and intentionally deceived a group member, people might have wonder if he would have the same lack of concience toward playing the group for a fool. But from what I read, maybe he's in good company. He probably feels right at home with the other officers there. LOL Quote from article: Camus eventually quit the group when “it became clear to me Forcythia was more concerned about building an empire than with the harm done to individuals.”

From what I’ve seen in the above posts, this is the crux of the matter. That’s what Wayfinder claimed. That’s what the evidence appears to indicate. It seems that is the main objection by members of Elf Circle. Leaving someone like this in a position of group responsibility is a questionable leadership decision. In this one case, I’d have to agree with the people who say that the group Founder doesn’t have the right to do whatever she wants in that group. Normally I wouldn’t say that, except it seems to be what she and her founding officers said of the leader of Elf Clan. By their claims he didn’t have the right to remove her from office for the things she was doing in ripping off the first group. What applies to one applies to the other. If Forcythia has the right to do whatever she wants, then so did Wayfinder and she was rightfully removed from office and did rip off Elf Clan.

Sounds like a bunch of drama with a side order of two-faced thrown in. People of Elf Circle should have at least some say in who is in positions of responsibility in that group. Considering that this guy totally and intentionally deceived a group member, people might have wonder if he would have the same lack of concience toward playing the group for a fool. But from what I read, maybe he’s in good company. He probably feels right at home with the other officers there. LOL

]]> By: Wayfinder Wishbringer http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24270 Wayfinder Wishbringer Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:16:13 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24270 Fair response Shaydin. But if you are unaware of people badmouthing me and Elf Clan, perhaps reading a little further back in these posts from "Human Resource", you'll find you don't have to look very far to see an example of such. And since that is not the first such post, it does get old (there have been numerous examples, in response to just about every decent article that's been written in this zine about Elf Clan). As for posting information regarding the rift, that is history. It is a truth that history-- both good and bad, is usually documented. We have been asked over and over again why Elf Clan left SL for a while, why we returned, and what happened to make us leave. Rather than repeating that story over and over to each individual who asks, we provide that information on the Elf Clan website. No doubt the leaders of your group don't like that, but frankly Scarlett... They exercised no conscience when they took three sims paid for by Elf Clan, and had no qualms in destroying our historic builds and disrupting our group. So we certainly have no qualms in relating the facts of what happened to those who ask. And what's funny about all this, the reason most people ask us is because of badmouthing they've heard from Elf Circle. It makes them curious regarding our side of the story. How's that for irony? I'm sorry this keeps coming up, and I realize that a large number of the members of Elf Circle are unaware of what has gone before. But I am also aware of a number of members that are not so innocent and who go out of their way to continue to be involved in the drama-like activities upon which the group was founded. My advice to such ones is this: if you don't want this information to keep being dredged up time and time again, stop the propaganda and slander. Recommend to "Human Resource" (and others like him) that if he can't work up up the courage to post something using his known SL name, to at least have enough wisdom to resist posting the drivel he's written thus far on these boards. Because every time such slander and drama is posted-- there will be factual response. When we do something wrong, that can come back to haunt us even after quite some time has passed. Elf Circle was founded upon drama and theft and sleander. That is a reality that will likely come up from time to time, no matter how much its members attempt to deny what happened. It's called consequenses of actions. One solution is to begin acting with greater honor. Anyone with a little foresight might have realized that holding a "liberation" celebration a year after betraying the original group might be perceived as continuing and even revelling in a course that was dishonorable to start with. Elf Clan's policy is to welcome all visitors and give drama the heave-ho. When you folks cease the drama and attitude, you'll likely find the repercussions and consequenses of such will lessen as well. But so long as those who started Elf Circle continue to cop attitude, they will likely continue to experience problems from such. When Elf Clan returned, we didn't send spies to your lands. We didn't stand around badmouthing Elf Circle to new visitors. And unlike Elf Circle's attitude toward our group... we're not rude to your members when they visit here. When your group starts acting with a little more maturity, perhaps you'll find things will begin functioning a little more smoothly. We returned to Second Life with a policy of "we'll leave them alone and they can leave us alone and we'll just get on with things". We advised our Greeters and memebers to treat Elf Circle people with all hospitality. If Elf Circle had found the maturity to do the same, we likely wouldn't be having this discussion. Fair response Shaydin. But if you are unaware of people badmouthing me and Elf Clan, perhaps reading a little further back in these posts from “Human Resource”, you’ll find you don’t have to look very far to see an example of such. And since that is not the first such post, it does get old (there have been numerous examples, in response to just about every decent article that’s been written in this zine about Elf Clan).

As for posting information regarding the rift, that is history. It is a truth that history– both good and bad, is usually documented. We have been asked over and over again why Elf Clan left SL for a while, why we returned, and what happened to make us leave. Rather than repeating that story over and over to each individual who asks, we provide that information on the Elf Clan website. No doubt the leaders of your group don’t like that, but frankly Scarlett… They exercised no conscience when they took three sims paid for by Elf Clan, and had no qualms in destroying our historic builds and disrupting our group. So we certainly have no qualms in relating the facts of what happened to those who ask. And what’s funny about all this, the reason most people ask us is because of badmouthing they’ve heard from Elf Circle. It makes them curious regarding our side of the story. How’s that for irony?

I’m sorry this keeps coming up, and I realize that a large number of the members of Elf Circle are unaware of what has gone before. But I am also aware of a number of members that are not so innocent and who go out of their way to continue to be involved in the drama-like activities upon which the group was founded. My advice to such ones is this: if you don’t want this information to keep being dredged up time and time again, stop the propaganda and slander. Recommend to “Human Resource” (and others like him) that if he can’t work up up the courage to post something using his known SL name, to at least have enough wisdom to resist posting the drivel he’s written thus far on these boards. Because every time such slander and drama is posted– there will be factual response.

When we do something wrong, that can come back to haunt us even after quite some time has passed. Elf Circle was founded upon drama and theft and sleander. That is a reality that will likely come up from time to time, no matter how much its members attempt to deny what happened. It’s called consequenses of actions. One solution is to begin acting with greater honor. Anyone with a little foresight might have realized that holding a “liberation” celebration a year after betraying the original group might be perceived as continuing and even revelling in a course that was dishonorable to start with. Elf Clan’s policy is to welcome all visitors and give drama the heave-ho. When you folks cease the drama and attitude, you’ll likely find the repercussions and consequenses of such will lessen as well. But so long as those who started Elf Circle continue to cop attitude, they will likely continue to experience problems from such.

When Elf Clan returned, we didn’t send spies to your lands. We didn’t stand around badmouthing Elf Circle to new visitors. And unlike Elf Circle’s attitude toward our group… we’re not rude to your members when they visit here. When your group starts acting with a little more maturity, perhaps you’ll find things will begin functioning a little more smoothly. We returned to Second Life with a policy of “we’ll leave them alone and they can leave us alone and we’ll just get on with things”. We advised our Greeters and memebers to treat Elf Circle people with all hospitality. If Elf Circle had found the maturity to do the same, we likely wouldn’t be having this discussion.

]]> By: Shaydin Eliot http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24269 Shaydin Eliot Wed, 29 Aug 2007 03:33:03 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24269 ok,first off..we don't go on and on posting on boards about the rift, nor do we sit there and badmouth you or anyone else who is your friend.If someone IS doing that please let us know and we'll stop them..simple as that,because they certainly aren't doing it with our permission.second..Elf Liberation Day is a joke that came up one day and people went with it(most times we call it Elf Libation Day anyways..got beer?) third..i don't know who people are talking to..its certainly not me..i try to be friendly all the time(might not seem like it right now..but it's 3Am...its enough i'm even awake and typing legibly right now:P)As for attitude..i can dish it if you like..but i would prefer not to Off to bed and then work now..Goodnight! ok,first off..we don’t go on and on posting on boards about the rift, nor do we sit there and badmouth you or anyone else who is your friend.If someone IS doing that please let us know and we’ll stop them..simple as that,because they certainly aren’t doing it with our permission.second..Elf Liberation Day is a joke that came up one day and people went with it(most times we call it Elf Libation Day anyways..got beer?) third..i don’t know who people are talking to..its certainly not me..i try to be friendly all the time(might not seem like it right now..but it’s 3Am…its enough i’m even awake and typing legibly right now:P)As for attitude..i can dish it if you like..but i would prefer not to

Off to bed and then work now..Goodnight!

]]> By: RodneyLee http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24268 RodneyLee Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:56:16 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24268 ROFLMAO ROFLMAO

]]> By: Wayfinder Wishbringer http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24267 Wayfinder Wishbringer Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:22:47 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24267 On the other hand Shaydin, if you and your group would cease the propaganda and lies, we wouldn't have to constantly set the record straight, would we? Every time someone says something nice about me or Elf Clan, there is always someone from Elf Circle jumping in (usually with a bogus name-- eh RodneyLee? At least Shaydin has the guts to use her own name) with the same old garbage and name-calling. The messages have the same immature tone and slanderous claims (which is how I pretty much know who left them) and you people haven't presented a valid point or fact since this happened. What facts? Oh, the fact that this didn't happen two years ago. It happened one ago this June... so it's still fresh in a lot of minds. And the facts that when I leave a message in response, no matter how lengthy, instead of using terms such as "tyrant" and "egotistical" blah blah blah, I set the record straight with information. And I'm almost always responded to by people such as Human Resources and you... who ignore all of the evidence and still cop an attitude. You people are so gullible to propaganda it amazes me. I had hoped that in the absense of Elf Clan, the leaders of Elf Circle might have grown up and wised up a bit. But you haven't. That was proven by the "Elf Liberation Day" you folks held in June. Not only did your group rip off and betray Elf Clan, but then you have the gall to celebrate the anniversary of that dishonorable deed? How bogus can a group get. Then you whine because we respond to slanderous messages with facts? LOL. That's just sad. I'm sorry you and others in your group hate having the truth brought up again and again. If you hate it so much, then I would recommend gaining an ounce of honor and stopping the propaganda engine. Because the fact is, as much as you all would like to sweep things under the rug and have the history of what the leaders of Elf Circle did go away, you people have absolutely no excuse for what you did. As long as the ones responsible keep trying to make excuses and keep up the lies such as "Human Resources" did above... you can be assured we will be here to set the matter straight. I hate drama as much as anyone. But I hate lies and immaturity even more. You try to drag my name and the name of Elf Clan through the mud... and then you slam me when I respond. LOL, it would be almost humorous if it weren't so dishonorable. Here's another fact Shaydin: during the time of Elf Clan, elves on Second Life had a great reputation as being friendly, honorable, and having beautiful lands. Your group has gained the rep of being unfriendly, rude and inhospitable, and all over the grid people talk about the elven with disdain. Elf Clan didn't do that. You did that all on your own. So stop whining. You made your bed. On the other hand Shaydin, if you and your group would cease the propaganda and lies, we wouldn’t have to constantly set the record straight, would we? Every time someone says something nice about me or Elf Clan, there is always someone from Elf Circle jumping in (usually with a bogus name– eh RodneyLee? At least Shaydin has the guts to use her own name) with the same old garbage and name-calling. The messages have the same immature tone and slanderous claims (which is how I pretty much know who left them) and you people haven’t presented a valid point or fact since this happened. What facts?

Oh, the fact that this didn’t happen two years ago. It happened one ago this June… so it’s still fresh in a lot of minds. And the facts that when I leave a message in response, no matter how lengthy, instead of using terms such as “tyrant” and “egotistical” blah blah blah, I set the record straight with information. And I’m almost always responded to by people such as Human Resources and you… who ignore all of the evidence and still cop an attitude. You people are so gullible to propaganda it amazes me.

I had hoped that in the absense of Elf Clan, the leaders of Elf Circle might have grown up and wised up a bit. But you haven’t. That was proven by the “Elf Liberation Day” you folks held in June. Not only did your group rip off and betray Elf Clan, but then you have the gall to celebrate the anniversary of that dishonorable deed? How bogus can a group get. Then you whine because we respond to slanderous messages with facts? LOL. That’s just sad.

I’m sorry you and others in your group hate having the truth brought up again and again. If you hate it so much, then I would recommend gaining an ounce of honor and stopping the propaganda engine. Because the fact is, as much as you all would like to sweep things under the rug and have the history of what the leaders of Elf Circle did go away, you people have absolutely no excuse for what you did. As long as the ones responsible keep trying to make excuses and keep up the lies such as “Human Resources” did above… you can be assured we will be here to set the matter straight. I hate drama as much as anyone. But I hate lies and immaturity even more. You try to drag my name and the name of Elf Clan through the mud… and then you slam me when I respond. LOL, it would be almost humorous if it weren’t so dishonorable.

Here’s another fact Shaydin: during the time of Elf Clan, elves on Second Life had a great reputation as being friendly, honorable, and having beautiful lands. Your group has gained the rep of being unfriendly, rude and inhospitable, and all over the grid people talk about the elven with disdain. Elf Clan didn’t do that. You did that all on your own. So stop whining. You made your bed.

]]> By: Shaydin Eliot http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24266 Shaydin Eliot Thu, 23 Aug 2007 03:18:59 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24266 Seeing as I don't care enough to go in to a wordy comment on whatever Wayfinder thinks is reality all I'm going to say is if you care enough..ask both sides of the issue..I'm sure Wayfinder will be more than happy to show factual proof to you as long as you care to listen to him go on and on about something from 2 years ago. Seeing as I don’t care enough to go in to a wordy comment on whatever Wayfinder thinks is reality all I’m going to say is if you care enough..ask both sides of the issue..I’m sure Wayfinder will be more than happy to show factual proof to you as long as you care to listen to him go on and on about something from 2 years ago.

]]> By: Wayfinder Wishbringer http://alphavilleherald.com/2007/08/trouble-in-elfv.html/comment-page-1#comment-24265 Wayfinder Wishbringer Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:52:00 +0000 http://localhost/wp_2/?p=1149#comment-24265 Errant, I am saddened by people like "Human Resources" who seem to be unable to separate fantasy from reality-- or are just so gullible they buy any story that comes along. Unfortunately, that happenes a lot on SL (and in RL too for that matter). Even with the matter set straight as you stated, the only thing he could come up with was a lame challenge of membership figures. That's pretty pitiful. As is usual with these people, he didn't address any actual issues, didn't acknowledge points made, refused to answer questions I asked him, and continued to cop attitude. Can't do anything about such individuals. They seem to enjoy wallowing in emotion. Fortunately, most Elf Circle members are new and have no idea about what happened (and don't really care) which is why we welcome them to our lands without prejudice. Most of the things stated above were perpetrated by Forcythia and her close friends and could not have happened at all had I not trusted her with group lands and funds. But hindsight is always 20/20. To answer your question "Human Resourse" (I always have to laugh when people are so strong in their convictions that they have to use a fake name or an ALT... LOL)... you asked if the 90% that stuck with Elf Clan were active members and compared that statement to the "membership" claims of Linden Lab. Let's answer that question with fact and reason. I already mentioned that Elf Clan Metaverse Awards just a few months before the drama. Who do you think voted for Elf Clan, members of tech groups? In addition, we had four rented sims. Obviously we had a rather large and very active membership... something you should have been able to figure out before making such a sadly desperate challenge. Since you don't really seem to care about answers and truth "Human", you'll excuse me if I attempt to ignore any further of your rants. Sorry you're of the attitude you are, but not my problem. Elf Clan is doing well. Errant, I am saddened by people like “Human Resources” who seem to be unable to separate fantasy from reality– or are just so gullible they buy any story that comes along. Unfortunately, that happenes a lot on SL (and in RL too for that matter). Even with the matter set straight as you stated, the only thing he could come up with was a lame challenge of membership figures. That’s pretty pitiful. As is usual with these people, he didn’t address any actual issues, didn’t acknowledge points made, refused to answer questions I asked him, and continued to cop attitude. Can’t do anything about such individuals. They seem to enjoy wallowing in emotion.

Fortunately, most Elf Circle members are new and have no idea about what happened (and don’t really care) which is why we welcome them to our lands without prejudice. Most of the things stated above were perpetrated by Forcythia and her close friends and could not have happened at all had I not trusted her with group lands and funds. But hindsight is always 20/20.

To answer your question “Human Resourse” (I always have to laugh when people are so strong in their convictions that they have to use a fake name or an ALT… LOL)… you asked if the 90% that stuck with Elf Clan were active members and compared that statement to the “membership” claims of Linden Lab. Let’s answer that question with fact and reason. I already mentioned that Elf Clan Metaverse Awards just a few months before the drama. Who do you think voted for Elf Clan, members of tech groups? In addition, we had four rented sims. Obviously we had a rather large and very active membership… something you should have been able to figure out before making such a sadly desperate challenge.

Since you don’t really seem to care about answers and truth “Human”, you’ll excuse me if I attempt to ignore any further of your rants. Sorry you’re of the attitude you are, but not my problem. Elf Clan is doing well.

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