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	<title>Comments on: New &#8216;Permissions Exploit&#8217; Uncovered &#8211; Drama Ensues on SLX</title>
	<atom:link href="http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html</link>
	<description>Always Fairly Unbalanced</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2016 13:18:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Montana Corleone</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16512</link>
		<dc:creator>Montana Corleone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16512</guid>
		<description>Well Trillium, got news for you. Read Title 17 of the US Code. ie the US Copyright Law. It IS a violation to copy a pic that is on public display, in this case in profile. Public display does NOT mean public domain. It is therefore a breach of copyright to use it without the copyright holder&#039;s consent. Cool or not, doable or not, doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s legal. Of course the person interviewed, Mr Adromor Wierwight thinks the law doesn&#039;t apply to him either, which must be why he is a member of the REJECTS Intellectual Property group. That&#039;s aside from thinking Freedom of Speech, which he shouts about, applies only to him, and anyone disagreeing with his views should be shouted down, threatened and griefed.

A prime example is the above where he laughs when he says he&#039;s anti-French, but don&#039;t you dare be anti-American. Not that I&#039;m French, I&#039;m British but live in France, as he&#039;d find out if he did any modicum of research, but as a pretend journalist obviously he can&#039;t.

But I&#039;m seeing why this guy is picking on me in multiple reports in this rag. I wasn&#039;t the first to tell him it was a copyright violation. But I did show him he was wrong on every point, and even showed him the law. Furthermore, the RL lawyer on the thread said exactly the same thing. So I guess he doesn&#039;t like getting beaten by a girl. And when he was shown to be wrong by several people, very politely, he then got insulting and accused everybody else of making snide remarks. How childish and pathetic then to continue this. How old are you? One day you&#039;ll grow up and be man enough to admit when you are wrong.

You may not like the law, but you are still breaking it, and when countless people politely pointed it out, YOU got all whiny and petty.  Including libelling me by accusing me of ripping off photographs that are my own work. It&#039;s very easy. Read LL&#039;s ToS. Read Title 17 of the US Code, and read the DMCA. Then you&#039;ll know what the law is, what rights you have, and end of story. Any other interpretation is frankly wrong.

You can read the thread here and make your own minds up about behaviour:

http://uncensored.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Forums&amp;file=viewtopic&amp;t=37733

Oh, and the result? The OP decided to pull her gadget from display.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Trillium, got news for you. Read Title 17 of the US Code. ie the US Copyright Law. It IS a violation to copy a pic that is on public display, in this case in profile. Public display does NOT mean public domain. It is therefore a breach of copyright to use it without the copyright holder&#8217;s consent. Cool or not, doable or not, doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s legal. Of course the person interviewed, Mr Adromor Wierwight thinks the law doesn&#8217;t apply to him either, which must be why he is a member of the REJECTS Intellectual Property group. That&#8217;s aside from thinking Freedom of Speech, which he shouts about, applies only to him, and anyone disagreeing with his views should be shouted down, threatened and griefed.</p>
<p>A prime example is the above where he laughs when he says he&#8217;s anti-French, but don&#8217;t you dare be anti-American. Not that I&#8217;m French, I&#8217;m British but live in France, as he&#8217;d find out if he did any modicum of research, but as a pretend journalist obviously he can&#8217;t.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m seeing why this guy is picking on me in multiple reports in this rag. I wasn&#8217;t the first to tell him it was a copyright violation. But I did show him he was wrong on every point, and even showed him the law. Furthermore, the RL lawyer on the thread said exactly the same thing. So I guess he doesn&#8217;t like getting beaten by a girl. And when he was shown to be wrong by several people, very politely, he then got insulting and accused everybody else of making snide remarks. How childish and pathetic then to continue this. How old are you? One day you&#8217;ll grow up and be man enough to admit when you are wrong.</p>
<p>You may not like the law, but you are still breaking it, and when countless people politely pointed it out, YOU got all whiny and petty.  Including libelling me by accusing me of ripping off photographs that are my own work. It&#8217;s very easy. Read LL&#8217;s ToS. Read Title 17 of the US Code, and read the DMCA. Then you&#8217;ll know what the law is, what rights you have, and end of story. Any other interpretation is frankly wrong.</p>
<p>You can read the thread here and make your own minds up about behaviour:</p>
<p><a href="http://uncensored.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Forums&#038;file=viewtopic&#038;t=37733" rel="nofollow">http://uncensored.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Forums&#038;file=viewtopic&#038;t=37733</a></p>
<p>Oh, and the result? The OP decided to pull her gadget from display.</p>
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		<title>By: neurosys sin</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16511</link>
		<dc:creator>neurosys sin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16511</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don&#039;t want my shopping habits visibly broadcast to any who looks. They might as well post of board of all my purchases in their store, too.&quot;

If this is an exploit someone should tell this guy about browser cookies.... oooooo hes gonna be pissed!

Tolerance Purchases Freedom, But its a good bargain. Because Freedom, Is Priceless.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don&#8217;t want my shopping habits visibly broadcast to any who looks. They might as well post of board of all my purchases in their store, too.&#8221;</p>
<p>If this is an exploit someone should tell this guy about browser cookies&#8230;. oooooo hes gonna be pissed!</p>
<p>Tolerance Purchases Freedom, But its a good bargain. Because Freedom, Is Priceless.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Trillium Bing</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16510</link>
		<dc:creator>Trillium Bing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16510</guid>
		<description>I am a purveyor of these fine gadgets, so I have first hand experience with the general opinion of SL residents.  They love it!  At least 99.9998% of them.  As Debbie stated above, the few who do initially have a problem with the product quickly change their minds once they understand how the script works.  Then, of course, there have been the one or two legal office clerks who toss around the terms &quot;copyright&quot;, &quot;privacy&quot;, etc.  For the vast majority, this product is a must have in the world of Second Life.  It is just so freakin&#039; cool!

I have a few different varieties of the script at my store...some are framed and some are projectors similar to what Debbie and her pals created.  The reality of the matter is that the only way that I benefit in any way from displaying the profile pic of an individual is when that individual purchases the product (I call them &#039;Magic Mirrors&#039;).  So, if someone gets mad and doesn&#039;t buy it, they technically negate the effect of me benefitting in any way from showing their particular profile picture to them.  When they leave, the mirror reverts to default and is ready for the next person to arrive so that it can show their picture to them.  Not a big deal.

Is it a violation of copyright law or Linden TOS, I really don&#039;t think so.  I imagine the judge in a court case saying &quot;OK, let me get this straight...you are suing so and so because they temporarily displayed the picture that you chose to make publicly viewable?  And this is all happening in a computer video game?  Next please!&quot;

There has been quite a bit of flap around this issue on a couple of different forums.  But I think it is just a matter of people getting used to seeing this kind of thing around SL so that they are not shocked or surprised when they TP somewhere and see their pic staring at them.  This is a product that, initially at least, invokes an emotional response.  But just because someone felt an emotion upon seeing it doesn&#039;t make it a violation of some international law.

Bottom line...it is a wonderful product.  It&#039;s just another way to show off the wonderful variety of photos that SL residents have chosen to show to the world as a representation of who they are.  The ultimate purpose of a profile picture is for it to be seen, is it not?  I can&#039;t imagine that when Linden Lab made SL open source for people to have the opportunity to create new ways of viewing and using SL content that they believed that the profile information should be excluded from this concept of open source.  With all the possibilities that open source creates...why should the profile picture only be viewable via the original methods that Linden devised?  Doesn&#039;t make sense.

Anyway, thanks to the Herald for the article...and thanks to Adromor, and the other brave souls who have defended these scripts against the legal clerks/debate team captains who want to blow this issue way out of proportion.

**shameless marketing plug coming up**

Don&#039;t forget to stop by Trillium&#039;s Home Store to get your copy of the coolest thing to hit SL since....Philip Linden!  :)

Love,
Trillium

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a purveyor of these fine gadgets, so I have first hand experience with the general opinion of SL residents.  They love it!  At least 99.9998% of them.  As Debbie stated above, the few who do initially have a problem with the product quickly change their minds once they understand how the script works.  Then, of course, there have been the one or two legal office clerks who toss around the terms &#8220;copyright&#8221;, &#8220;privacy&#8221;, etc.  For the vast majority, this product is a must have in the world of Second Life.  It is just so freakin&#8217; cool!</p>
<p>I have a few different varieties of the script at my store&#8230;some are framed and some are projectors similar to what Debbie and her pals created.  The reality of the matter is that the only way that I benefit in any way from displaying the profile pic of an individual is when that individual purchases the product (I call them &#8216;Magic Mirrors&#8217;).  So, if someone gets mad and doesn&#8217;t buy it, they technically negate the effect of me benefitting in any way from showing their particular profile picture to them.  When they leave, the mirror reverts to default and is ready for the next person to arrive so that it can show their picture to them.  Not a big deal.</p>
<p>Is it a violation of copyright law or Linden TOS, I really don&#8217;t think so.  I imagine the judge in a court case saying &#8220;OK, let me get this straight&#8230;you are suing so and so because they temporarily displayed the picture that you chose to make publicly viewable?  And this is all happening in a computer video game?  Next please!&#8221;</p>
<p>There has been quite a bit of flap around this issue on a couple of different forums.  But I think it is just a matter of people getting used to seeing this kind of thing around SL so that they are not shocked or surprised when they TP somewhere and see their pic staring at them.  This is a product that, initially at least, invokes an emotional response.  But just because someone felt an emotion upon seeing it doesn&#8217;t make it a violation of some international law.</p>
<p>Bottom line&#8230;it is a wonderful product.  It&#8217;s just another way to show off the wonderful variety of photos that SL residents have chosen to show to the world as a representation of who they are.  The ultimate purpose of a profile picture is for it to be seen, is it not?  I can&#8217;t imagine that when Linden Lab made SL open source for people to have the opportunity to create new ways of viewing and using SL content that they believed that the profile information should be excluded from this concept of open source.  With all the possibilities that open source creates&#8230;why should the profile picture only be viewable via the original methods that Linden devised?  Doesn&#8217;t make sense.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks to the Herald for the article&#8230;and thanks to Adromor, and the other brave souls who have defended these scripts against the legal clerks/debate team captains who want to blow this issue way out of proportion.</p>
<p>**shameless marketing plug coming up**</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget to stop by Trillium&#8217;s Home Store to get your copy of the coolest thing to hit SL since&#8230;.Philip Linden!  <img src='http://alphavilleherald.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Love,<br />
Trillium</p>
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		<title>By: Archie Lukas</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16509</link>
		<dc:creator>Archie Lukas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16509</guid>
		<description>Sorry

But this is a non-issue

Storm in a teacup

Cure for insomnia

(your choice)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry</p>
<p>But this is a non-issue</p>
<p>Storm in a teacup</p>
<p>Cure for insomnia</p>
<p>(your choice)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MPD</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16508</link>
		<dc:creator>MPD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 02:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16508</guid>
		<description>Debbie/Angel:  Would you make up your mind as to which name you want to use?  You admit your post went up under a different name, and the posts keep alternating between the two names in question.  Make up your damn mind.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debbie/Angel:  Would you make up your mind as to which name you want to use?  You admit your post went up under a different name, and the posts keep alternating between the two names in question.  Make up your damn mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie Trilling</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16507</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie Trilling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16507</guid>
		<description>@ Angel: &quot;your name goes at the end not the start&quot; Oh yeah! lol

The script I posted on LLab Forums &amp; LSL Wiki was intended as example code for other scripters &amp; for me to pass a few hours on a cold, miserable UK Sunday morning. It was never originally intended as a polished and completed product.

It has evolved somewhat over the last few months and provides good examples of using a number of important LSL techniques and functions. At some point I&#039;ll also implement a permissions system, just because it has become a kind of pet project of mine.

As a matter of interest and FWIW, I have always made the code available as Open Source and have not myself financially benefited from it, nor sold it.

I do, however, encourage others to use the script creatively, innovatively and to enjoy it. And sell it even, if people are prepared to pay for it.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Angel: &#8220;your name goes at the end not the start&#8221; Oh yeah! lol</p>
<p>The script I posted on LLab Forums &#038; LSL Wiki was intended as example code for other scripters &#038; for me to pass a few hours on a cold, miserable UK Sunday morning. It was never originally intended as a polished and completed product.</p>
<p>It has evolved somewhat over the last few months and provides good examples of using a number of important LSL techniques and functions. At some point I&#8217;ll also implement a permissions system, just because it has become a kind of pet project of mine.</p>
<p>As a matter of interest and FWIW, I have always made the code available as Open Source and have not myself financially benefited from it, nor sold it.</p>
<p>I do, however, encourage others to use the script creatively, innovatively and to enjoy it. And sell it even, if people are prepared to pay for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Angel</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16506</link>
		<dc:creator>Angel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16506</guid>
		<description>@ Debbie, You must be new here hun. Like a letter, your name goes at the end not the start.

Don&#039;t feel bad, everyone makes that mistake... once. Must be that dotted line or something.

@ Pierce, It&#039;s only a TOS violation if it is without permission. The script listed on the LSLWiki asks permission, the two listed in this article are for groups you belong to and for tip photos, ie: your employees, who would no doubt give permission.

Debbie&#039;s projector though is one that does not ask permission but picks random people from a llSensor() sweep, that is certainly against TOS; but she gives it away free in source code form not on SLX, so that argument is moot.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Debbie, You must be new here hun. Like a letter, your name goes at the end not the start.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t feel bad, everyone makes that mistake&#8230; once. Must be that dotted line or something.</p>
<p>@ Pierce, It&#8217;s only a TOS violation if it is without permission. The script listed on the LSLWiki asks permission, the two listed in this article are for groups you belong to and for tip photos, ie: your employees, who would no doubt give permission.</p>
<p>Debbie&#8217;s projector though is one that does not ask permission but picks random people from a llSensor() sweep, that is certainly against TOS; but she gives it away free in source code form not on SLX, so that argument is moot.</p>
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		<title>By: Penance Sautereau</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16505</link>
		<dc:creator>Penance Sautereau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16505</guid>
		<description>You know I&#039;ve never quite grasped the concept that teasing and irritating someone could be construed as a sign of affection. Maybe I do have a stick up my ass but I hate when Fran picks on me either.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know I&#8217;ve never quite grasped the concept that teasing and irritating someone could be construed as a sign of affection. Maybe I do have a stick up my ass but I hate when Fran picks on me either.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierce Kronos</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16504</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierce Kronos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16504</guid>
		<description>Actually, according to Linden Lab&#039;s Governance Team, such scripted devices are ARable as a violation of the ToS.  Most likely initial ARs will result in a warning with subsequent reports of abuse resulting in suspensions.  The creator, of course, is not ARable -- just the device and its owner when used in such a manner as to display your image or whatever without your permission.

Folks can whine and cry, curse and call names at this if they like or at those who choose to follow such actions, However, such histrionics won&#039;t negate the facts.

- Pierce Kronos
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, according to Linden Lab&#8217;s Governance Team, such scripted devices are ARable as a violation of the ToS.  Most likely initial ARs will result in a warning with subsequent reports of abuse resulting in suspensions.  The creator, of course, is not ARable &#8212; just the device and its owner when used in such a manner as to display your image or whatever without your permission.</p>
<p>Folks can whine and cry, curse and call names at this if they like or at those who choose to follow such actions, However, such histrionics won&#8217;t negate the facts.</p>
<p>- Pierce Kronos</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie Trilling</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/02/new-permissions.html/comment-page-1#comment-16503</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie Trilling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=857#comment-16503</guid>
		<description>It seems that my post has been erroneously posted under the name of &quot;Angel&quot; (February 15, 2008 at 01:19 AM), rather than &quot;Debbie Trilling&quot; (February 15, 2008 at 04:50 AM)

I would be grateful if this could be corrected.

Many thanks
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that my post has been erroneously posted under the name of &#8220;Angel&#8221; (February 15, 2008 at 01:19 AM), rather than &#8220;Debbie Trilling&#8221; (February 15, 2008 at 04:50 AM)</p>
<p>I would be grateful if this could be corrected.</p>
<p>Many thanks</p>
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