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	<title>Comments on: Musings from a Gorean Feminist: Gor is so Stupid</title>
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	<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html</link>
	<description>Always Fairly Unbalanced</description>
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		<title>By: Shiftingwind</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-80294</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiftingwind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 05:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-80294</guid>
		<description>Several times in this article the author refers to a &quot;BDSM mindset&quot;  as the catalyst and context and justification for Gorean beliefs and practices that she considers to be stupid. For example;

&quot;In the books, slaves are fearful of being asked to testify in court because their testimony only counts if taken under torture.  As of yet, I haven’t found how that actually happened in the books.  Because, its stupid.   It sounds cool, again from a BDSM mindset, but in practice it doesn’t work.&quot;

What the author fails to understand is that Gor has little if anything to do with BDSM at all.  Gor is a work of fiction and the product of extremely poor writing.  Gorean philosophy does not embrace the concept of consensual power exchange and in fact eschews the idea of using domination, submission, bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism for pleasure as mental illness.

Perhaps the author needs to consider how self revealing her accusations of stupidity are and try to learn just a bit more about Gor and BDSM before attempting to pose as an expert on these subjects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several times in this article the author refers to a &#8220;BDSM mindset&#8221;  as the catalyst and context and justification for Gorean beliefs and practices that she considers to be stupid. For example;</p>
<p>&#8220;In the books, slaves are fearful of being asked to testify in court because their testimony only counts if taken under torture.  As of yet, I haven’t found how that actually happened in the books.  Because, its stupid.   It sounds cool, again from a BDSM mindset, but in practice it doesn’t work.&#8221;</p>
<p>What the author fails to understand is that Gor has little if anything to do with BDSM at all.  Gor is a work of fiction and the product of extremely poor writing.  Gorean philosophy does not embrace the concept of consensual power exchange and in fact eschews the idea of using domination, submission, bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism for pleasure as mental illness.</p>
<p>Perhaps the author needs to consider how self revealing her accusations of stupidity are and try to learn just a bit more about Gor and BDSM before attempting to pose as an expert on these subjects.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sheraka Sirnah</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-13103</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheraka Sirnah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 06:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-13103</guid>
		<description>Hey hey

Somebody left the kennel door open, is this a slave revolution? /me shouts: &quot;GUARDS...&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey hey</p>
<p>Somebody left the kennel door open, is this a slave revolution? /me shouts: &#8220;GUARDS&#8230;&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Leto Albatros</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-13102</link>
		<dc:creator>Leto Albatros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-13102</guid>
		<description>I was in SL for almost a year before I heard of Gor, or collars, for that matter.  Utter nonsense, and very offensive to me.  Has really spoiled SL for me.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was in SL for almost a year before I heard of Gor, or collars, for that matter.  Utter nonsense, and very offensive to me.  Has really spoiled SL for me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: quasi</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-13101</link>
		<dc:creator>quasi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-13101</guid>
		<description>Gor is a waste of real life time and the people you interact with are a waste of real life time. Do yourself a favour and interact with real people, you won&#039;t regret.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gor is a waste of real life time and the people you interact with are a waste of real life time. Do yourself a favour and interact with real people, you won&#8217;t regret.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: temptress</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-13100</link>
		<dc:creator>temptress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-13100</guid>
		<description>Well, I found this whole thing, though I did not read the whole damn page, to be very interesting to say the least. I am a woman, that roleplays online in gor. I am also a submissive woman in real life, and I love it.. However, the roleplay aspect of it all, is just fantasy. Nothing more, and nothing less. If your going to kill off my character for being a disobedient slave, so be it, I will just come back in a few days, maybe not to your so called home, but to another one, because I like the roleplay.. To me, I would rather be typeing something out in a chat room, then playing a game like World of Warcraft, or WarHammer. Ohhh heaven forbid that I roleplay a slave.

Slavery is outlawed, yes, but you can not stop what is in someone&#039;s heart.. Yes, I like the right to vote, or work for that matter, but life would be so much easier if I were fuqing born in the Little house on the prairie time. ~lol~

Anyways, to each their own.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I found this whole thing, though I did not read the whole damn page, to be very interesting to say the least. I am a woman, that roleplays online in gor. I am also a submissive woman in real life, and I love it.. However, the roleplay aspect of it all, is just fantasy. Nothing more, and nothing less. If your going to kill off my character for being a disobedient slave, so be it, I will just come back in a few days, maybe not to your so called home, but to another one, because I like the roleplay.. To me, I would rather be typeing something out in a chat room, then playing a game like World of Warcraft, or WarHammer. Ohhh heaven forbid that I roleplay a slave.</p>
<p>Slavery is outlawed, yes, but you can not stop what is in someone&#8217;s heart.. Yes, I like the right to vote, or work for that matter, but life would be so much easier if I were fuqing born in the Little house on the prairie time. ~lol~</p>
<p>Anyways, to each their own.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Aroboky</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-13099</link>
		<dc:creator>Aroboky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-13099</guid>
		<description>Ok, for one, if you take anything personally in SL, you have problems. Big ones.

There are far sillier, more disgusting and repulsive things in SL than Gor (animal genitalia!)

Everything in Gor is consensual. (ctrl+shift+H, alt+F4, ctrl+Q)

What&#039;s wrong with a bunch of guys playing as girls raping and dominating each other? Well, a lot, maybe. But it&#039;s damn funny. Two fat guys in basements doing that to each other.

The real problem with Gor, for me, is it&#039;s total lack of realism. Some things are ok, SOME(some, not much) RP is actually pretty good. Most people don&#039;t look the part, at all. Lot&#039;s of sad faced, big crying eyed guys with swords(most of Sl anyway). Haha! The rapid fire, infinite ammo bows...wth.
Even if you could fire that fast, and pull arrows out of your invisible bag of holding, your string-arm would fly off. Seeing as the ridiculous, capture for nothing panthers can rapid fire bows, they could wear armor. Although, I&#039;ve read no one in the books wears armor, save for a shield or helmet. I could be wrong though.

Swords, by design, are NOT heavy. If they were, they wouldn&#039;t be functional. So yeah, a woman in good shape should be able to wield one same as a man. It&#039;d only get easier.

So may long posts! Sometimes I think people went afk when really, they&#039;re writing a damn book!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, for one, if you take anything personally in SL, you have problems. Big ones.</p>
<p>There are far sillier, more disgusting and repulsive things in SL than Gor (animal genitalia!)</p>
<p>Everything in Gor is consensual. (ctrl+shift+H, alt+F4, ctrl+Q)</p>
<p>What&#8217;s wrong with a bunch of guys playing as girls raping and dominating each other? Well, a lot, maybe. But it&#8217;s damn funny. Two fat guys in basements doing that to each other.</p>
<p>The real problem with Gor, for me, is it&#8217;s total lack of realism. Some things are ok, SOME(some, not much) RP is actually pretty good. Most people don&#8217;t look the part, at all. Lot&#8217;s of sad faced, big crying eyed guys with swords(most of Sl anyway). Haha! The rapid fire, infinite ammo bows&#8230;wth.<br />
Even if you could fire that fast, and pull arrows out of your invisible bag of holding, your string-arm would fly off. Seeing as the ridiculous, capture for nothing panthers can rapid fire bows, they could wear armor. Although, I&#8217;ve read no one in the books wears armor, save for a shield or helmet. I could be wrong though.</p>
<p>Swords, by design, are NOT heavy. If they were, they wouldn&#8217;t be functional. So yeah, a woman in good shape should be able to wield one same as a man. It&#8217;d only get easier.</p>
<p>So may long posts! Sometimes I think people went afk when really, they&#8217;re writing a damn book!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Einar</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-13098</link>
		<dc:creator>Einar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 00:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-13098</guid>
		<description>I just always find it interesting how few people that go on and on about how evil and stupid Gor is actually know anything about it, know anything about the author, the fact that most of it is actually based on history and philsophy from our own world (the concept of natural slavery being espoused by Aristotle in his Politics) or have ever read one of the books.  What other subject or group of people would it be okay to speak about out of a place of such utter ignorance?  Apparently tolerance is selective for the self-righteous correct.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just always find it interesting how few people that go on and on about how evil and stupid Gor is actually know anything about it, know anything about the author, the fact that most of it is actually based on history and philsophy from our own world (the concept of natural slavery being espoused by Aristotle in his Politics) or have ever read one of the books.  What other subject or group of people would it be okay to speak about out of a place of such utter ignorance?  Apparently tolerance is selective for the self-righteous correct.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ville</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-13097</link>
		<dc:creator>Ville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-13097</guid>
		<description>I read the first and part of the second books before I just set them aside and used them as coasters.
Norman&#039;s a badass in the classroom (from Vids, I don&#039;t live in NY), but his writing is nothing short of vapid. The subject matter he was trying to convey was a pretty decent one, but not one that should be followed as a way of life...
I saw that people actually took to it and almost choked laughing so hard. Gor is what it is: Science Fiction from a guy who doesn&#039;t even follow it himself. It&#039;s as if Norman wanted to step outside his normal writings and try a Nietzsche two-step for a fun splurge. If you look at the patterns of his book releases, it&#039;s like his fun side hobby.
Now, none of this is meant to be offensive, take it moreso as an outsider&#039;s perspective before you go getting all flustered and having to plead your little heart out to show me interweb justice lol. If anyone should have taken to the books I&#039;d have thought it&#039;d be me. I&#039;m larger than average (Nature gave me a good frame, and I built on it the hard way), a former active Marine (Alpha 1-1), a semi-accomplished go getter (I&#039;m not trying to act rich, but I do make quite a bit more a year than most 25 year olds) and I have alot of interaction with women. I don&#039;t need any incouragement or sense of empowerment from a Science Fiction work whose author is still bewildered that people follow it. Sorry, but I&#039;m strong of my own accord.
Now, a friend of mine does see into Gor. He&#039;s my age, slighlty more financially accomplished than I and a wonderfully brilliant guy. Nothing short of awesome talking to him, he&#039;s been a friend since grade school. He just got married, just had his first baby girl. He&#039;s got the car, the house, all of it. However, that&#039;s where the cool shit ends. His wife subtley runs him (he&#039;ll never admit it, but watch him say one thing, then be pulled aside so his &#039;slave&#039; can convince him of another), he has to run after her anytime she gets mad and quietly throws a hissy fit. The man&#039;s so wrapped up in the dellusion that he is indeed master of all things near him that he doesn&#039;t know how to react when presented with someone who is sure of themselves.
It&#039;s sad to see, really. I&#039;ve got 4 people I know simular to this; all diving to the books for a powerful example, but lacking in the real approach to it. I think it&#039;s pitiful. Pathetic. I mean, at least look to Dune if you wanna go following SciFi lol. It&#039;s much more awe-inspiring and far better written. Or better yet, look to yourselves. Find what makes YOU strong without having to assimilate the &#039;Gorean&#039; model dreamt up by a bored Professor.
On women: Here&#039;s a subject I bet will see some recourse lol! SO, women are slaves, and submissive in nature. Not as strong nor as wise as the male.
Hmm... Well, this is often true, honestly. You see far too many women driving around in their pink Volkswagon Bugs chitchatting on their husband-bought cellphones while they sip Starbucks at the local mall. Don&#039;t see anything wrong with that? lol But if you&#039;re the master of her, then why not have her improve herself? Don&#039;t be a weak sissybitch, get your ass out there and become the top of your potential.
To be strong takes true work. I don&#039;t mean training your woman to respond to poses, I mean getting your soggy ass out there and hitting a gym. This bolsters physical prowess, rendering you more capable. Still not sure of your frame? Try boxing or grappling. It won&#039;t make you invincable, but at least then you&#039;ll be hardier for your efforts and at least SEMI-capable of defending yourself. Tarl wasn&#039;t a punk, and I bet not half of you are anywhere near his prowess (mind the fact that he&#039;s Gorean heh). Not only that, but on Gor the weapons of the trade are pretty well practiced by all who might need to use them. How many of you can say you know how to fire a weapon accuratley? How to use a knife to defend yourselves? How to maximize your efficiency in a hot spot in order to protect yourself and your woman like you claim you could? Be honest! (and if I ask you for a youtube presentation, you&#039;d better not bitch out lol!)

My point to this ever-so-long ramble is this: None of you are a &#039;master&#039; of shit. You&#039;re crazy if you even think of calling yourselves &#039;master&#039;. Why? Because Mastery can&#039;t occur externally until you can master yourselves. In this theology, the master should provide for and protect, and I&#039;d be willing to be there aren&#039;t very many of you who could even approach my wife and have her submit lol. She can probably shoot and defend herself better than you can (what can I say? haha so I guess she&#039;s not a fair example). So beleive in  what you want, but at least be able to seriously back the methodology of it all. Hell, I&#039;m probably closer to Gorean than most of you reading this, and I find that sad.
SO, feel free to contact me to discuss any matters that arise from this, and I&#039;ll grant you an ear. I&#039;m not picking at ya, and I&#039;d be more than willing to listen if you decide you&#039;d like to regale me with a response. Happy Reading, and lemme know if you need any advice in gaining real strength:)
-Ville

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the first and part of the second books before I just set them aside and used them as coasters.<br />
Norman&#8217;s a badass in the classroom (from Vids, I don&#8217;t live in NY), but his writing is nothing short of vapid. The subject matter he was trying to convey was a pretty decent one, but not one that should be followed as a way of life&#8230;<br />
I saw that people actually took to it and almost choked laughing so hard. Gor is what it is: Science Fiction from a guy who doesn&#8217;t even follow it himself. It&#8217;s as if Norman wanted to step outside his normal writings and try a Nietzsche two-step for a fun splurge. If you look at the patterns of his book releases, it&#8217;s like his fun side hobby.<br />
Now, none of this is meant to be offensive, take it moreso as an outsider&#8217;s perspective before you go getting all flustered and having to plead your little heart out to show me interweb justice lol. If anyone should have taken to the books I&#8217;d have thought it&#8217;d be me. I&#8217;m larger than average (Nature gave me a good frame, and I built on it the hard way), a former active Marine (Alpha 1-1), a semi-accomplished go getter (I&#8217;m not trying to act rich, but I do make quite a bit more a year than most 25 year olds) and I have alot of interaction with women. I don&#8217;t need any incouragement or sense of empowerment from a Science Fiction work whose author is still bewildered that people follow it. Sorry, but I&#8217;m strong of my own accord.<br />
Now, a friend of mine does see into Gor. He&#8217;s my age, slighlty more financially accomplished than I and a wonderfully brilliant guy. Nothing short of awesome talking to him, he&#8217;s been a friend since grade school. He just got married, just had his first baby girl. He&#8217;s got the car, the house, all of it. However, that&#8217;s where the cool shit ends. His wife subtley runs him (he&#8217;ll never admit it, but watch him say one thing, then be pulled aside so his &#8216;slave&#8217; can convince him of another), he has to run after her anytime she gets mad and quietly throws a hissy fit. The man&#8217;s so wrapped up in the dellusion that he is indeed master of all things near him that he doesn&#8217;t know how to react when presented with someone who is sure of themselves.<br />
It&#8217;s sad to see, really. I&#8217;ve got 4 people I know simular to this; all diving to the books for a powerful example, but lacking in the real approach to it. I think it&#8217;s pitiful. Pathetic. I mean, at least look to Dune if you wanna go following SciFi lol. It&#8217;s much more awe-inspiring and far better written. Or better yet, look to yourselves. Find what makes YOU strong without having to assimilate the &#8216;Gorean&#8217; model dreamt up by a bored Professor.<br />
On women: Here&#8217;s a subject I bet will see some recourse lol! SO, women are slaves, and submissive in nature. Not as strong nor as wise as the male.<br />
Hmm&#8230; Well, this is often true, honestly. You see far too many women driving around in their pink Volkswagon Bugs chitchatting on their husband-bought cellphones while they sip Starbucks at the local mall. Don&#8217;t see anything wrong with that? lol But if you&#8217;re the master of her, then why not have her improve herself? Don&#8217;t be a weak sissybitch, get your ass out there and become the top of your potential.<br />
To be strong takes true work. I don&#8217;t mean training your woman to respond to poses, I mean getting your soggy ass out there and hitting a gym. This bolsters physical prowess, rendering you more capable. Still not sure of your frame? Try boxing or grappling. It won&#8217;t make you invincable, but at least then you&#8217;ll be hardier for your efforts and at least SEMI-capable of defending yourself. Tarl wasn&#8217;t a punk, and I bet not half of you are anywhere near his prowess (mind the fact that he&#8217;s Gorean heh). Not only that, but on Gor the weapons of the trade are pretty well practiced by all who might need to use them. How many of you can say you know how to fire a weapon accuratley? How to use a knife to defend yourselves? How to maximize your efficiency in a hot spot in order to protect yourself and your woman like you claim you could? Be honest! (and if I ask you for a youtube presentation, you&#8217;d better not bitch out lol!)</p>
<p>My point to this ever-so-long ramble is this: None of you are a &#8216;master&#8217; of shit. You&#8217;re crazy if you even think of calling yourselves &#8216;master&#8217;. Why? Because Mastery can&#8217;t occur externally until you can master yourselves. In this theology, the master should provide for and protect, and I&#8217;d be willing to be there aren&#8217;t very many of you who could even approach my wife and have her submit lol. She can probably shoot and defend herself better than you can (what can I say? haha so I guess she&#8217;s not a fair example). So beleive in  what you want, but at least be able to seriously back the methodology of it all. Hell, I&#8217;m probably closer to Gorean than most of you reading this, and I find that sad.<br />
SO, feel free to contact me to discuss any matters that arise from this, and I&#8217;ll grant you an ear. I&#8217;m not picking at ya, and I&#8217;d be more than willing to listen if you decide you&#8217;d like to regale me with a response. Happy Reading, and lemme know if you need any advice in gaining real strength:)<br />
-Ville</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: romo</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-13096</link>
		<dc:creator>romo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-13096</guid>
		<description>if i agree with most of the things here one get me upset. The fact of someone who don&#039;t have a clue of what BDSM is really use it as an example. BDSM is based on love, trust and faith between two people, BDSM is not torture, or abuse: submission is WILLINGLY given,BDSM respect limits of the sub, and most important, respect is one of the bases.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if i agree with most of the things here one get me upset. The fact of someone who don&#8217;t have a clue of what BDSM is really use it as an example. BDSM is based on love, trust and faith between two people, BDSM is not torture, or abuse: submission is WILLINGLY given,BDSM respect limits of the sub, and most important, respect is one of the bases.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GreenLantern Excelsior</title>
		<link>http://alphavilleherald.com/2008/05/gor-is-so-stupi.html/comment-page-2#comment-13095</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenLantern Excelsior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wp_2/?p=705#comment-13095</guid>
		<description>&quot;...once you see a huge unbroken-by-paragraphs block of text, then it&#039;s probably Norman ranting about &quot;the proper order of things&quot;, and you can just skip ahead, and not feel the lesser for it.&quot;

Exactly - when there&#039;s a long passage with master talking to slave, or two men discussing slavery, you can flip past it and pick up the story where it left off. In the later novels, you would only be reading half the book that way.

&quot;This is the only thing worthwhile reading about Gor:&quot;

Thank you for posting that link. The story is just wrong, so wrong, but it is well written in its Gorean gay bejeweled biker modalities, so to speak, the Caste of Scribes being the writers of such things, in their way, which is the way of those who write, being Gorean, as it were. Funny stuff.

&quot;What amuses me about Gor is that on Gor, women &quot;naturally find their place and revel in it&quot; meaning &quot;enjoy being chattel to a bunch of sadistic &quot;manly&quot; men who also do everything they can to lie, cheat, and trick women into slavery&quot;.&quot;

Maybe you could provide a few examples of this, because I don&#039;t recall any man in any of the novels saying &quot;Here, let me snap this collar around your neck. It will keep you warm at night, and it wards off demons. (snap) GOTCHA!&quot; Women in the novels were either forcibly enslaved or they submitted themselves for enslavement. They weren&#039;t tricked into it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;once you see a huge unbroken-by-paragraphs block of text, then it&#8217;s probably Norman ranting about &#8220;the proper order of things&#8221;, and you can just skip ahead, and not feel the lesser for it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly &#8211; when there&#8217;s a long passage with master talking to slave, or two men discussing slavery, you can flip past it and pick up the story where it left off. In the later novels, you would only be reading half the book that way.</p>
<p>&#8220;This is the only thing worthwhile reading about Gor:&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you for posting that link. The story is just wrong, so wrong, but it is well written in its Gorean gay bejeweled biker modalities, so to speak, the Caste of Scribes being the writers of such things, in their way, which is the way of those who write, being Gorean, as it were. Funny stuff.</p>
<p>&#8220;What amuses me about Gor is that on Gor, women &#8220;naturally find their place and revel in it&#8221; meaning &#8220;enjoy being chattel to a bunch of sadistic &#8220;manly&#8221; men who also do everything they can to lie, cheat, and trick women into slavery&#8221;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe you could provide a few examples of this, because I don&#8217;t recall any man in any of the novels saying &#8220;Here, let me snap this collar around your neck. It will keep you warm at night, and it wards off demons. (snap) GOTCHA!&#8221; Women in the novels were either forcibly enslaved or they submitted themselves for enslavement. They weren&#8217;t tricked into it.</p>
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