You should read books 14-16. In those books a man is brought to Gor and it goes through how he evolves after being brought to Gor. The books do not suggest that Earth men are completely lost as you were suggesting.

I wish you well.

I have always been somewhat on the submissive side, and that does not mean that I am stupid, weak, or a victim who needs to be saved. I am not suffering from abuse or Stockholm’s Syndrome. I am well aware of the choices I have made, and the choices that I continue to make in my life. I am a happy well-adjusted person. I have a bachelor’s degree, and I am planning on furthering my education in the near future to complete my career goals in life. My Master has been completely supportive of my goals and ambitions in life. I graduated with a high GPA and as a member of two honors fraternitites. I exercise regularly and eat healthy. My Master has never violated me physically, sexually, or psychologically, and anyone who would do that (to anyone, even a slave) is a disgraceful human being who should be in prison. Please, do not make the mistake of speaking of all Gorean lifestylers the same way. It’s prejudiced and just plain wrong.

- Dancer of gor, page 27

As a man, reading Norman’s books did piss me of, but not because they were demeaning to women. But because he insists to call all men sissy boys. Unless you come from another planet, in which case I would have probably seen you on the news. And he pretty much does that every other sentence.

Basically women can be saved, men are just beyond all repair.

And that is all I could really understand from the literature.

I refuse to play it in SL. its not as disney as vampires and elves in gor (some tried to do that), but I see people with rifles, full plate, chainmail, making FW into slave for no good reason.

See in MSN, if people tried to do that you described- they’d have their asses kicked.

“I would say that “Lifestyle” Gor is a manipulative environment, and for a long time in both Gor practice and Gor in SL, lifestyle was pretty much all there was. One could say that a Hostage who after being kidnapped for a long period of time, defends their kidnapper is a “consensual” choice, but in psychology they call it “Stockholm Syndrome”. Now I’m not saying that all Gorean slaves have Stockholm Syndrome, what I am saying that psychology can have a strong effect on choice. I’ve seen Gorean (mostly lifestyle) sims, who when taking in a new slave, demanded the slave never leave the sim, cut off ties to old friends (by way of, “all IMs must go through master first”), and spend their time studying Gor slave material (read: propaganda). These are the symptoms of a cult, not gentle roleplay, it puts the slave in a situation where if they lose all their old friends and make all new friends in the group, so if they are “exiled” it’s an actual punishment of losing all their current friends. Now, do all Gorean sims and areas act like this? No, but I’m saying that some have, and may still do, and Gor CAN be manipulative and a choice may not be so clear.

“And I was so happy to see that happening, I bet the lifestylers were pisssssseeeeeeed off by what they saw as an infection in their lifestyle by RPers who turn it into “Disney Gor”. Gor is probably mostly RP sims and pure RPers now, but there’s still a few lifestyle sims lingering about (I know Glorious Ar is still around, probably the oldest and largest lifestyle Gor sim out there).”

I was too frankly, and I acknowledge the almost cultish atmosphere of the lifestyle sims. Hearing that ridiculous request of “Master may I go real life to feed my baby.” being denied so some moron could have his twelve step serve with alcoholic beverage rubbed full of slave cream really sickened me.

“You call it culture creation, but why would you WANT to create that culture, like the author of this story, I can’t hang around the people without wanting to either slap someone the moment they spout some “warrior I am man I am superior” philosophy, or go in and free some slaves. I wonder, has there ever been anyone or any sim that allowed such RP, speaking of culture creation, someone who could go in and fight the guards and save the slaves? I imagine not, because whether you know it or not, the “free-form RP culture-creation” you’re talking about is second (and everything RP wise is) to slave relations. Gor RP and lifestyle, centers entirely around the slave relationships, really even in it’s RP form, it’s more like one huge BDSM community with a stupid set of philosophies based in a silly alien planet ruled by apathetic giant golden ants in space.”

Oh no We, I totally agree with you totally, I grew tired of it. I grew tired of the silliness of what the entire RP revolved around which to me was some ridiculous BDSM dating service for basement bound lackwits. The attractiveness, to me was creating a culture of order, of intrigue, of great wars, great plots, and terrific stories. The background lent a certain charm for the order and limitations imposed by the environment. But, most people were more interested in getting their digital jollies or shooting prim arrows at people. Yes, wars happened, slaves got fucked (or furred, ridiculous term) but very few people could see beyond that, people couldn’t see that there was endless RP opportunities available. I can say, proudly, that I did participate in some rather wonderful long term stories that were more based on intrigue. And the reasons I did it in Gor, as opposed to a place like Avillion? Is because I think elves, dwarves, and gnomes are tired and overdone.

I would say that “Lifestyle” Gor is a manipulative environment, and for a long time in both Gor practice and Gor in SL, lifestyle was pretty much all there was. One could say that a Hostage who after being kidnapped for a long period of time, defends their kidnapper is a “consensual” choice, but in psychology they call it “Stockholm Syndrome”. Now I’m not saying that all Gorean slaves have Stockholm Syndrome, what I am saying that psychology can have a strong effect on choice. I’ve seen Gorean (mostly lifestyle) sims, who when taking in a new slave, demanded the slave never leave the sim, cut off ties to old friends (by way of, “all IMs must go through master first”), and spend their time studying Gor slave material (read: propaganda). These are the symptoms of a cult, not gentle roleplay, it puts the slave in a situation where if they lose all their old friends and make all new friends in the group, so if they are “exiled” it’s an actual punishment of losing all their current friends. Now, do all Gorean sims and areas act like this? No, but I’m saying that some have, and may still do, and Gor CAN be manipulative and a choice may not be so clear.

“I’m also amused by the concept of flooding the groups, changing Gor to a more liberal progressive mindset because its already there.”

And I was so happy to see that happening, I bet the lifestylers were pisssssseeeeeeed off by what they saw as an infection in their lifestyle by RPers who turn it into “Disney Gor”. Gor is probably mostly RP sims and pure RPers now, but there’s still a few lifestyle sims lingering about (I know Glorious Ar is still around, probably the oldest and largest lifestyle Gor sim out there).

You call it culture creation, but why would you WANT to create that culture, like the author of this story, I can’t hang around the people without wanting to either slap someone the moment they spout some “warrior I am man I am superior” philosophy, or go in and free some slaves. I wonder, has there ever been anyone or any sim that allowed such RP, speaking of culture creation, someone who could go in and fight the guards and save the slaves? I imagine not, because whether you know it or not, the “free-form RP culture-creation” you’re talking about is second (and everything RP wise is) to slave relations. Gor RP and lifestyle, centers entirely around the slave relationships, really even in it’s RP form, it’s more like one huge BDSM community with a stupid set of philosophies based in a silly alien planet ruled by apathetic giant golden ants in space.

To say that even a microscopic portion of Gorean-Rpers truly believe in a legalistically recognized slavery is as inept as saying that Norman knew how to write a good sex scene. Sure, a number of Gor RPers do enjoy certain aspects of forced-play or BDSM in their bedroom but its still, like SL, 100% consensual. To suggest that the vast majority of Gorean RPers feel differently is narrow minded and frankly a little foolish. I’ve played in Gor in the past, had some incredible times with it, but it will never be more than worrisome a RP as playing that Bloodline game, sure, it can be annoying, but is it anything more than pixels? Nah, not so much.

As far as why is it enjoyable? Well, why is any RP enjoyable? You are doing your best to play a part of a cultural experience that even after an entire series of books is barely defined. Creative people getting together to try to fill in the gaps. That “Gor is Harsh” mentality is present, but its not, nor has it ever been the end all and be all of the why. Do I ‘get off’ on a force collar scenario sexually? No, I don’t, but if the incident happens to develop the feel for the environment, and move a story along I enjoy being a part of the story. Its culture creation, and no different than all the other RP sims struggling to create a sense, a snapshot of whatever their RP is based off of, that’s really what becomes enjoyable about “by the book.”

I’m also amused by the concept of flooding the groups, changing Gor to a more liberal progressive mindset because its already there. Gor has moved away from the Lifestylers and is mostly populated by Gorean RPers, people simply playing a role, people who would no more be willing to subjugate their loved ones than your next door neighbor. In fact, most people playing in Gor have little actual “true to the books” knowledge than most of your readership. Its a game, another type of RP, you can choose to assign all sorts of disgust to it but its no more harmful than killing Vampires in COLA.