Staff is there for several reasons, you could call them primarily “hostesses” if you will, but they also make sure that subs that wonder in are not being taken advantage of, educate people about the D/s lifestyle/RP, and to keep conversation going. The dungeons are there, but staff is not required to go there. They are mainly for couples that don’t rent their own place, or would like to experiment with different equipment.

As far as the separation between D/s RL and SL, think about things like…. Furries, be it bipeds or quadrupeds…. or the Avatar sims, or the strange space station I heard about but am afraid to visit. Heck, there are Rape sims, RLV “playgrounds”, Harry Potter sims, Star Treck sims, etc. All sorts of things to in SL to do, but I have yet to see little blue furry people running around in RL. There is a difference. While some MIGHT practice D/s IRL, Many do not. Who am I to judge another persons fantasies?

Of course they MUST be! Aren’t all Doms control freaks?

OCD Doms unite! Get those subbies to clean up that mess!

ah more wit and erudition! (Feel free to look up any of those words if you need to. I’ll wait.)

You know, chav, I actually agree with you when you say about those “Goreans who seem to believe whole-heartedly in human slavery” that they do “a very good job of pretending even in OOC settings.”

Certainly some of them do and carry aspects of that, mainly kneeling, outside of Gorean sims. Note the key word you used is “pretending.” That’s right: *pretending* as in role play. that’s a long way from your original contention that they believe in slavery in rl.

You also say, “I am one of those who don’t believe that acting out fantasy with others has no consequences.” I agree with this as well – and I don’t mean that to be sarcastic. Any sort of intense interaction between people, no matter what the medium, can lead to emotional connections which may or may not last, and those feeling whether good or bad are very real. so, yes, good rp does effect one’s rl.

but what you are doing chav is assuming that the people who rp in Gor or any sort of D/s are so stupid they can’t separate the pretend from the real. Consider, there aren’t hordes of people playing WoW who make their own battleax and start hacking away in rl are there? so why should it be any different with sexual fantasys in sl? those in gorean sims do *not* log off and then start running around thinking that is what women want in rl.

i will tell you though there are many women who like these sort of fantasies. in a typical gorean sim there are more women than men. no one wants to be a slave in rl, but this isn’t rl, it’s pretend. those who make these blanket denunciations often forget that little detail, there are men and women in this role play.

so yes, chav, i am an apologist in the classical sense, that is one who provides reasons for supporting a given position.

ok bye

Then they do a very good job of pretending even in OOC settings.

“it’s called role play, perhaps you should look it up in wikipedia. ”

Go fuck yourself

I am one of those who don’t believe that acting out fantasy with others has no consequences. Fantasy affects reality even if we don’t want it to. SL being full of misogyny and slavery is affecting people out there by saying that yes women really do want to be submissive and beaten, and slavery is really quite nice.

But there is no point talking to an apologist, so I shall be off now.

Hmm.

@LadyDeath

” We are a BDSM (Male Dom) club that permits no sex, no nudity and no pressure to present yourself in the stereotypical BDSM way.”

So how do we explain the imagery and quotes on the walls from the Marquis deSade, the isolation cage thing in the corner of the club, the two fully-equipped dungeons with Gorean sexbeds, Kajirean cross things, the spanking chairs in the club itself? Also, I couldn’t find a notecard giver with the club rules saying no sex etc. But there’s no question that this is just a standard BDSM club that’s been given a nice layer over the top. Even the dungeons were clean and tidy. I thought from the details of the interview that it was more along the lines of a hosutesu bar such as found in Japan but it doesn’t seem to be quite that simple.

@Scylla Rhiadra

“I’m a bit confused about one thing, though: are all the female subs here club employees? So, this is essentially a “gentleman’s club” where men can come to interact with (paid) submissives?”

That was one of the things I wanted to find out when I visited (I’m actually still there as I type this). Unfortunately the applications form notecard giver is broken (heads up club owner person!) which is a shame because it might have explained. That and the lack of a general club rules notecard made it difficult to get further information. I tried though

I’ve got no issue with this by the way, each to their own. And of course this was an interview with a person rather than a review of a club. I just thought it was worth adding some detail though.

Ooh, someone just arrived at the club. I shall talk to them 8D

Point taken. I wasn’t so much doubting or ignoring the fact that the women that you mention might also be creative, artistic, etc., as addressing more directly your offer to help find “female entrepreneurs in sl.”

@Inniatzo

The first part of your response to me at least addresses my own query, and makes a worthwhile point. I will agree with you to some degree, but I still contend that interaction with (for want of a better word) a “professional” (i.e., paid) submissive is the same as the kind of mutual power-sharing arrangement made between a Dom and a sub in a more purist D/s relationship. I was not addressing the question of “consent” or necessity, but rather how that relationship is affected when the sub is being paid (however little) for being submissive.

The second part of your response is more questionable. I should like to see some support for your contention that “most people if not almost everyone – have some sexual fantasies about things which are unacceptable in rl,” as well as some more detail about what you mean by “unacceptable.” I would also question, at least potentially, your suggestion that role playing has no impacts beyond the fact that it needn’t lead to physical danger.

Finally, I await with interest your production of a quotation from me, here or anywhere, that shows or implies that I believe that “the men and women who do D/s are . . . a bunch of idiots who just need to understand how foolish they are so they can be saved.” This is, once again, a highly reductive and distorting representation of my views and ideas on the subject.

“Like Goreans who seem to believe whole-heartedly in human slavery, do they just switch off the dodgy views when they log out?”

for the first part of that sentence: they don’t

for the second: of course they do

it’s called role play, perhaps you should look it up in wikipedia. The ones who go too far and mix ic and ooc (this can be a problem, but not nearly as much as you no doubt think) are griefers who like to mess with people no matter the setting.

If you don’t like bondage or D/s or gor , that’s fine, there are certainly plenty of sexually related things i don’t like, but the people who do like these things are not idiots.

And, though this needs to be mentioned over and over, the women who enjoy this type of *role play* are not there because they want to be there.

@ Scylla

your original comment said that this must be pay-per-view misogyny, which again – at least the way i see it – ignores the fact that the women are there because they want to be there. perhaps they are being paid by tips but it’s not as if these are vast sums of money, 1000 lindens is about 4 dollars, no one is degrading themselves because they need the money to survive.

many people – i’d say most people if not almost everyone – have some sexual fantasies about things which are unacceptable in rl, and this of course includes men and women. sl can be a means of expressing these fantasies, but doing so is not any more dangerous than reading an erotic story (or writing one for that matter). if bondage and D/s doesn’t appeal to someone then it just doesn’t, and there is nothing wrong with that, but, again, the men and women who do D/s are not a bunch of idiots who just need to understand how foolish they are so they can be saved.