Op Ed: YouTube, News Sites Wimp Out Over Winged Wangs
by prokofy on 06/01/07 at 12:54 am
By Prokofy Neva
YouTube and other news and commentary web sites have caved to the pressure of the powerful Anshe Chung Studios and taken down photos and machinima videos of the infamous penising of his interview of the virtual millionairess in Second Life. The news sites, of course, should not have published these materials in the first place as obscene and depicting an outrageous grief attack. But that’s a matter of journalistic ethics and integrity — and not a matter of copyright. To make this decision to remove materials they had once published despite any code of ethics is to concede a chill on the media. The original interviewer, GreeterDan Godel AKA Daniel Terdiman of CNET in fact had made the decision to mention the penises but not carry the video footage or screenshots.
The attack was allegedly made by Plastic Duck/Gene Replacement who has bragged on Second Citizen that he was responsible for it, and had also apparently made a brand-new alt account spoofing my RL information. I knew there was trouble when an account I hadn’t made suddenly was announced in an email to me. Moments later, Anshe was asking if in fact it was true that I had provided replicating penises to the hour-old avatar (of course I hadn’t). Anshe pleaded with me and other reporters not to publish the story or carry pictures of the embarrassing attack. We didn’t. It wasn’t that I merely complied with her wishes; I had already decided not to write up the incident. I was keenly conscious of how unpleasant it would be be for Anshe to have her family see these ugly pictures; just minutes before her attack, a voice saying he was Plastic Duck had called my RL home to stalk me, and reached my child by accident.
After an editorial meeting, the Herald decided not to run the story merely because yet another penised presser was getting to be Old Hat — not to mention W-Hat — and it seem relevant to stop fueling the cycle of griefing-press coverage-more griefing.
“We do not have to publish EVERY penis,” ruled the Editrix Pixeleen Mistral, and many will readily agree.
But the wily Safari-hunter Petey Peterson of somethingawful.com, possibly alerted well in advance of the staged griefing, did a story with photos and made a widely-distributed machinima posted at YouTube and gameworld publications like Joystiq, parent to the Blingsider, picked it up and soon it was all over the Metaverse like a case of the clap. [You can now only find references to YouTube notices saying they have removed the video because its content was duplicated without authorization, but SA still carries it.]
Despite the very real personal anguish and business issues involved for Anshe or any of us, still, I take the view that Anshe Chung Studios is out of line here and unnecessarily pressuring media coverage of Second Life and speciously invoking copyright in order to preserve her image. Once the slippery slope begins of wrongfully describing screenshots out of SL as “artwork” or “copyrighted material” and not accepting that they are legitimate “fair use” and “reference” images, using the language of real-life court rulings, we will lose even more of those very limited freedoms we have. They are, after all, taken in public places to which the press, with their cameras, were openly invited. This didn’t happen in Anshe’s home or even a private island realm; it was her commercial sim of Plush at an installation designed for public meetings.
This issue surfaced the other day at the Blingsider when an avatar named CaveCub Milk harangued Caliandris Pendragon about pictures taken on his themed island of Kokomo. This was endlessly drama’d and discussed, and Caliandris then forced the issue upon the Lindens, and got this effort to moralize on the verge of legislation from Catherine Linden:
Linden Lab does not give permission to anyone to film in Second Life because we don’t own the content. However, I do like to say that filming in Second Life is like filming in NYC. Generic street scenes and landscapes can be considered “fair use” but filming individuals without their permission is notadvised, just like in real life.
This is odd; in fact the TOS, as commentators to Caliandris’ thread have pointed out, pretty much do own any and all images and can remove them at will.
People have very different notions of privacy, of course. This is endlessly parsed as some people think a camera-zoom is unethical and others say that because you can zoom, no one can count on privacy.
And I think for Anshe, it’s not really at all about some artwork or content on this bland Plush commercial sim where a merely ordinary platform and seating arrangement was shown, not elaborate patterns on Ming dynasty era vases. It’s about the perpetuity of the Internet and these sorts of awful things as they keep getting linked and saved and immortalized by delic.io.us and all the rest, blackening one’s name and one’s business without recourse. An injured party might find the appropriate legal action to be taken is a torts case for damages — associating a business with a good reputation with obscenity — or possibly a libel suit — but not misuse of the DMCA to file a copyright takedown notice to the press covering the controversy.
I think all the news media in and around SL, virtual and real, or virtual-to-real, need to resist any takedown orders of this nature to the hilt. It’s like the Danish cartoons of Second Life. You can have the good sense, ethics, and community spirit *not* to publish the Danish cartoons and fuel incitement of hatred. You can also condemn extremists’ attempts to use violence against those who do decide to publish them, and uphold the right to publish them. None of the virtual or real press should be budging at orders from either SL’s most powerful real estate development company or from Linden Lab on the issue of screenshots from the public places of Second Life. They really ought to allow the issue to be forced even by the courts if they must. I suppose we can count on Snapshot Baron Cristiano Midnight to fight this good fight.
CNET’s and YouTube’s facile and swift compliance with this order has undermined the freedoms all of us have had to cover Anshe and her doings and freely take photos in Second Life in general.
BoingBoing and the Sydney Morning Herald have done the right thing by refusing to comply with a copyright-based DMCA takedown order; they might also consider doing the right thing by not publishing every penis.
Petey
Jan 6th, 2007
Anshe also got my YoUtube account deleted over this alleged DMCA violation. And YouTube never responded to my request.
Sorry, Uri–I was going to break this to you yesterday during our emails, right after Steve Hucheon from The Age emailed me asking if Anshe had contacted me. She hadn’t. She never sent a legal threat to SA, possibly knowing that we would disregard it entirely. Instead, she tried to bully the technology editor of what my Australian friend calls “The Australian version of the New York Times” into taking down those photos Room 101 provided me. I didn’t tell you then because I last I knew this was all secret–Steve told me that he was “going on the legal warpath” if his lawyers would back him up. Apparently the story hit anyway.
I do find it funny that no one outside of Steve thought to contact the person who published the pictures, but hey, no big deal.
SA still carries the video because I’m now hosting it elsewhere, and will continue to do so regardless of anything Anshe says or does.
Cristiano Midnight
Jan 6th, 2007
It is definitely an important principle to stand up for on a lot of different levels. One difficulty that sites like mine and other third party SL sites face in dealing with DMCA takedown notices, however bogus, is that we are beholden to the whims of our ISPs who have no interest in doing anything but protecting themselves from liability. It is one thing to receive a tersely worded email like Anshe’s husband sent – it is another to be corecipient of a formal DMCA takedown notice, along with your hosting company.
A few months ago, I received a DMCA takedown notice over an image of Michael Crook that someone took a screen shot of in SL (it was a picture of an avatar holding up a screen shot of a frame from a Fox News interview with Michael Crook). The notice was also sent to the hosting company my servers are on. I received notice from them that the content needed to be removed or my service would be interrupted. I reluctantly complied as I did not need to lose my site in the crossfire of my ISP playing CYA over the safe harbour provisions of the DMCA. I did send on all the information to the EFF, who are engaged in an ongoing legal battle with Michael Crook over his abuse of the DMCA (including, once again, Boing Boing, who did an end run around him and got permission from Fox News).
I have not been contacted by Anshe regarding Snapzilla – a quick search of ‘Anshe’ brings back a handful of images of her avatar, and none of the griefing (it also brought back images with the word BANSHEE). I imagine she is only going after sites publishing negative images, but regardless, it is a dangerous precedent that I hope backfires spectacularly on her. Attempting a power play like this to try to control the freedom of the press cannot have enough negative attention brough to it.
Lewis Nerd
Jan 6th, 2007
As I opinioned on Stratics… taking pictures should be ‘fair use’, otherwise places like Snapzilla will cease to exist, even “Postcards from Second Life” would fall under this.
We reported the story, but with no pictures. The event happened, it’s verifiable – and there’s absolutely nothing ACS can do about it. The video is available in several places, and I know a lot of people have downloaded it and saved it to their own PC’s so that as soon as it gets taken down, someone else can put it back up again.
Silencing the press often backfires. So can an extremely inflated sense of self importance. Let’s see which one outweighs the other.
Lewis
Jonas
Jan 6th, 2007
Are Youtube and Snapzilla news sites, or are they just services to redistribute content? Does the classification make a difference in determining what is ‘fair use’? Maybe it is signifcant that Youtube removed the video, whereas the Sydney Morning Herald still is showing the pictures. Did CNet actually remove any content? The article says that they had decided to not show pictures or video, and then castigates them for complying with the take-down request, so I’m a bit confused.
Wouldn’t it be better to ask Linden Lab to expand the TOS to allow sites like Snapzilla and YouTube, as well as anyone else, to post snapshots and video of ‘public’ SL content?
Prokofy Neva
Jan 6th, 2007
Well, this is my understanding of the situation:
1. Youtube and Snapzilla are hosts where you can post your content which you link to your own blog or website. So while not blogs or websites themselves, they can be part of a network or link that is a news site. People often put up a video on YouTube then put a comment on their own blog with a link.
2. Indeed it is significant that YouTube removed the video immediately just because it has a request, which is often the default for these host services that want to avoid conflicts for themselves, whereas the Sydney Morning Herald, which has an editorial board, decided not to take down the photos — and IMHO did the right thing.
3. To my knowledge, CNET has NOT removed content because they had opted NOT to publish the picture and video or even link to it from the get-go. But frankly in the welter of links and such on this site of theirs, I can’t be certain so I had asked that very question yesterday, and didn’t have an answer yet.
4. I’m for not having ANYTHING WHATSOEVER good or bad that expands Linden Lab’s jurisdiction or permissions system over ANYTHING but their own servers and forums. If you prescribe, in civil law fashion, the right and permissions to post something outside of SL, you create a climate where they can also claw it back and start saying you shouldn’t publish certain things. That’s why the best press law is usually no press law, rather than a big book of elaborate code.
Bluesapphire
Jan 6th, 2007
This is too obvious for words, this has nothing to do with her family or infringement. The facts are simple, AnsheChung Studio cannot afford to be seen by the Chinese authorities to be invloved in ‘pornography’ or in ‘unfitting environments’. This is a pure business decision, one any ‘business girl’ would take, especially one on the inside of the Great Firewall of China. One of her workers tells me they walk a thin line, they have to be very careful. They have been cut off from Linden Lab servers in the past.
Also Cristiano, I agree about your site and effect the DCMA could have on your business. Especially when you compare your service to YouTube, I would seriously think about posting notices and getting a terms of service implemented to cover yourself.
Alex Fitzsimmons
Jan 6th, 2007
I actually do agree with this article in principle on pretty much every point, save that I don’t think the situation is quite as dramatic as you paint it.
But maybe, especially when I consider the point Bluesapphire raises, I’m even wrong about that.
I’ll give you this, Prokofy: when you stick to topics you know something about, you can actually make a lot of sense.
Petey
Jan 6th, 2007
Yeah, Alex–Prokofy and I do not always disagree.
Jonas:
YouTube deleted my account upon receiving a notice from Anshe. That’s it. Just a notice. I sent them back a message and they didn’t even email me back.
It has nothing to do with who listed what and everything to do with Steve Hutcheon from the SMH knowing his journalistic rights and YouTube not caring about mine.
Padijun
Jan 6th, 2007
“AnsheChung Studio cannot afford to be seen by the Chinese authorities to be invloved in ‘pornography’ or in ‘unfitting environments’.”
Then why the dickens would she choose, as Warren Ellis describes it “a psychosexual nightmare given virtual form, where giant penises roam the land and disturbed people wear the forms of bears and then have repulsive intercourse.” to operate a business? And for that matter does the Chinese government only care that its citizens play SL when they get recorded with flying floppy dongs?
Eric Rice
Jan 6th, 2007
I think the Chinese government cares if they are penises evangelizing democracy.
Cough.
2007 is certainly the year of the anti-hype of SL, but its catalyst won’t be more over-the-top media coverage about non-issue big companies in SL, it will be the bizarre behaviors of the residents. Clay Shirky and similar non-world observers like him won’t NEED to be in SL, they just need to read a few blogs and wax philosophical on it. CNN people respond to *him*, not residents.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 6th, 2007
Gosh, Spin, you said that inworld and outworld businesses aren’t supposed to have different drinking fountains. So when CNN writes about ESC and MOU, they aren’t writing about residents? Have you played your hand here to reveal that in fact “residents” are people who are inworld not connected to the outer world?
I agree that the lifestyles of the SLers are going to become fodder for the media. And it will be done by some kind of Esquire or Rolling Stone type piece where some gonzo journalist actually spends time weaving into the networks to get the story along with some scandal that USA Today picks up as well. Just waiting to happen.
I always find it humorous when a figure like Warren Ellis, who styles himself as some free-thinking social critic and deconstructivist and destructivist in fact turns out to sound like Church Lady about penises roaming the land and people in bear suits? Aren’t I supposed to be the one condemning penises roaming the land and he’s supposed to be celebrating them as art? Actually, tbh, in two years in SL, I haven’t once ever met a bear. Odd, that. In TSO we had tons of them, it was an easy option to pick out of the looks.
Eric Rice
Jan 6th, 2007
No, I’m saying that some of the residents’ stories like the Anshe one make everyone look nuts. It’s worse than griefing, honestly, because at least griefing can be ruled out as immature mischief by kids. Especially when they use silly shit like penises.
But going after publishers for posting photos of a newsworthy event? Far, far worse.
Even the behavior of the anti-copybotters, screaming ‘we’ll ban you if we catch you using *or if we suspect you* of using copybot’.
Shoot first, ask questions later, guilty until proven innocent. With us or against us. George Bush, RIAA, all that good stuff. I’m thinking THAT is what people will eat that up first, and we residents will look like lunatics by association.
But then, we’ve set that precedent, eh?
Padijun
Jan 6th, 2007
“in fact turns out to sound like Church Lady about penises roaming the land and people in bear suits? Aren’t I supposed to be the one condemning penises roaming the land and he’s supposed to be celebrating them as art?”
He was contrasting, not condemning
bluesapphire
Jan 6th, 2007
Eric, I totally agree. Although, the irony, is that people like Shirky are all about self promotion, sound bites and shouting loud from the bushes. This is just another form of HYPE or SPIN.
Further irony, with a name like SPIN, not too mention your own self – kinda like warhol kinda like dre – promotion, surely your prophecy will dent your own purposes, especially in the brave new world of Second Life in 2007?
As for the Chinese democracy angle, yes thats obvious: one that everyone picks up on. It goes deeper than that though, cultural influences are far more an issue. The Chinese are far more prudish than you would think, the S-E-X word will shut you down fast.
My concern this week; the very people who seem to have the most to lose by these actions/events, are continually shooting themselves in the foot.
Anshe should of known this would of backlashed, her PR people are poorly advising her. Although, other than her ‘land baron’ status, what is the relevance of her role in the Second Life of 2007?
We’re still yet to see any work from her full service development company employing 50+ people. I strongly feel, she is attempting to claw back some of her previous status, especially when you compare her company to the media attention given to the developers like MoU, eSheep and RRR.
Is Anshe going the sameway as Nephaline, remember her? The darling of the Linden PR team in 2004/05, who was dropped for Anshe in 2006. You didn’t think Anshe got her status on her own did you? My hope is that someone worthy will be used in 2007 as the cover girl of Linden Lab.
Linden should answer Shirky. Why are they not issuing a statement, or at least verifying their numbers? A simple clear statement will answer these critics, surely a simple task?
Prokofy Neva
Jan 6th, 2007
Eric,
The griefing of Anshe’s press conference isn’t “immature griefing by kids,” and to portray it that way and minimize it is part of the whole enabling culture. It’s actually part of a planned, concerted, deliberate, organized network of people continually, routinely commiting crime — DNS attacks, serious griefing with destruction of property and financial loss, and harassment and stalking. Your notion that this is “just a bunch of kids” and we’re supposed to now climb into some harness of false comparisons and moral equivalences is really over the top.
Guni’s clumsy attempt to get people to take down content backfired and only cost ACS bad press. No one has entertained it seriously for a moment who is a real editor or journalist. The SMH didn’t cave — no serious operation involved in trying to maintain free media caved, and the EFF was all over it instantly. YouTube is a commercial site merely hosting videos as a service, not a news media, and it reacted automatically like it always does when it gets a complaint. That in turn affected varoius news and views sites as I commented — but then, those people could merely replace the link with the same one we provide here if they enjoy watching penises bludgeon people at news conferences.
A thread to media freedom and overreach by LL are both serious problems which I’ve instantly reacted to and published an op-ed piece condemning. But the problem of griefing is far more serious than you are willing to concede and I’m simply not going to get frog-marched into your moral equivalency squad and start saying Anshe’s ineffectual attempts to get people to do something are worse than a concerted griefing effort that forces people to change their behaviour and harms them objectively by clouding their business image with obscenity and controversy.
Here’s the difference, big guy, and I suggest you learn it because it will bite you in the ass soon enough:
Anshe’s action harmed no one. Everybody got a chance to feel self-righteous for an entire 15 minutes.
Plastic Duck’s action harmed not only Anshe but chilled the entire media and events seen by forcing people to limit access even further to their sims.
So that’s what you wish to applaud?
Prokofy Neva
Jan 7th, 2007
blue, I’m going to take on every one of your snarky comments here:
First, the easy one. You’re just beyond the news cycle on Shirky. Philip already gave David Kirkpatrick some better numbers because *gasp* he simply called up and asked for them instead of ranting on blogs. This has been analyzed for days already now and even Shirky seems mollified. So Google that an catch up.
Though I wasn’t here in SL then, from what I’ve seen and read, Nephilaine was never the kind of pin-up girl that Aimee Weber has been, and wasn’t flogged by the Lindens in any of that same crass way with overexposure on the website, the media, etc. I think Neph got to where she was more by her own skills and marketing but others more knowledgeable about the design world could weigh in on this. I’ll tell you one thing: Neph’s picture was never on the old website they used to have flogging their pets in various pics over and over again like Aimee, Marcos, Flipper, etc.
As for Anshe’s development work, I guess you just don’t grasp what the land and mall and building sector is like in SL. I mean, geez, fly around the *550 sims* where people live, play, work, shop, etc. It’s a staggering amount of work. Those people are working flat out 24/7 to keep the sims running, keep events, content, customer service, disputes resolution, terraforming/texturing, building, etc. going. They are running a kind of Second Life within Second Life and functioning like Lindens. You could only have respect for something like that.
Unlike ESC and MOU who have to yammer incessantly to the media about every little babystep they take and every little cheerio they can hold in their widdle fingers, ACS just quietly gets things done. They hold events, rent out sims for important things like NBC at the last minute when others have messed up to save the occasion(and don’t get the credit), donate sims for good causes, etc. etc.
Anshe is objectively my competitor, I only lose customers to her, so I have no reason to sing her praises. I’ve written frankly about her sometimes harsh business practices. It’s hard getting things done in SL. I think you have to judge by flying around and looking at the actual sims in SL with actual traffic, and not read whatever is pushed on CNET or Reuters today.
Hiro Pendragon
Jan 7th, 2007
I find it ironic that SA members complain when Anshe Chung interferes with their activities on the Internet in reaction to them interfering with her activities on the Internet. What did you honestly expect?
Petey
Jan 7th, 2007
Who said I was complaining?
humanoid
Jan 7th, 2007
“The facts are simple, AnsheChung Studio cannot afford to be seen by the Chinese authorities to be invloved in ‘pornography’ or in ‘unfitting environments’.”
Using the possible reaction of Chinese internet censors as an excuse to abuse the admittedly flawed DCMA is a red herring. All that means, if you’re right, is that she’s chosen to help them spread their censorship policies outside the border of red China. To Hell with that and to Hell with anyone who abides by it.
Inigo Chamerberlin
Jan 7th, 2007
Sorry guys, I missed something here?
Anshe – who started out in SL as, not to put too finer point on it, a whore, is whinging about publication of a video of a few flying pricks at an interview?
This is the same Anshe that needs to hide SL’s ‘darker side’ from the Chinese authorities in case they are shocked by it?
So, what happens if someone is unkind enough to eMail a copy of her old, pre-land baron, personal profile to the Chinese ‘authorities’?
Does she end up in jail? Or just have to cough up bigger bribes?
And WHO exactly forced her to move from the repressive Federal Republic of Germany to the freedom loving People’s Republic of China?
It’s all bullshit – this is nothing but another case of ‘I’m Anshe Chung – listen to me, look at me, bow to my influence’ – nothing more, nothing less.
If any of you bothered to think back you’d remember she has these little turns – just ignore her, she won’t go away, but she’ll give up soon enough. If you don’t pay any attention.
There are quite enough attention seeking oddballs in SL (as in RL) without encouraging one who’s been fairly quiet for a bit – if you ignore the ‘SL’s first millionaire’ BS, which I did.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 7th, 2007
Inigo,
I often here the tale about “Anshe getting her start as a whore,” but do you have *anything* to prove this beyond a card that somebody made and passed around? I mean, it’s hearsay.
And even if true, why would that require her to be penalized by being pummelled with penises, nor why would being pummelled with penises — an actual attack that cost CNET and her damages — be compared to a warning to take down content — which most editors ignored or even ridiculed. I think there’s a question of scale and magnitude here that you’re not seeing because you hate Anshe — she’s a scapegoat for a lot of things in Second Life.
You’ve also got this persistent idea that Anshe is “hiding the dark side of SL from the Chinese government.” I frankly don’t think there’s much in the way of Internet stuff one can hide from the Chinese government — that’s the whole problem with the Chinese government. And what are you claiming, anyway? Anshe Chung Studios is not a game, and doesn’t fit under Chinese law — nor is SL a game. She’s got a design studio for 3-d virtual applications used for a wide variety of purposes. The links on her website take people to Dreamland which has a code of conduct. You’re not going to find flying penises in Dreamland. The issue of whether Anshe is liable for all of the content in SL, only some of which the Chinese government may object to, is an interesting one — but not one you can judge.
Do you think the Chinese government is somehow antagonistic or could be antagonistic to ACS? I think you’re really fishing here. You don’t set up a business in China *just like that* without getting bunches of permits and making sure the governor’s brother in the ministry is your friend blah blah blah. It’s not like you just parachute in there. ACS is very likely to have wired down things you can’t even imagine, just being a hateful speculative — and anonymous — blog commentator.
Anshe has family, relatives and now employees in China. I don’t think people who get a job in a Western-sponsored company with higher wages in China are objecting to this. It’s the way of the future. In fact, it’s the way of the present. All the sweat-shop stuff and idiocy that people are spewing is because they are just ignorant Westerners prepared to grab at any cliche.
And why? So that they can hold their purchasing power and place in the very rapidly globalizing world market of labour and goods — a place they are going to lose to a lot of Chinese, Indian, and Russian labour — and already are losing.
Do you think these governments care one good God-damn about what some Calvinistic Puritan idiot in America or Great Britain thinks about some lady’s possible colourful past, when they are getting jobs, taxes, and a home girl on the front page of Business Week?
Anshe Chung has never given up and gone away. You don’t get 550 islands and fill them with hundreds of tenants by wilting because some fucktards in SL pass around a picture and giggle like 14-year-old boys.
Guni’s effort to protect his wife and his business may have been clumsy – but it didn’t do any damage. We’re all here to push back hard at any threat to press freedom, trust me on that. However, let’s look at where the real balance sheet is on this now. Anshe has lost face, business, damages — and you, and the readers of the Herald, and everybody in the Blogosphere except some penis-pusher have not suffered one goddamn thing. The penis-pusher moved his penis crap to another server where likely the same folks who coddled the oppressive Chinese government at Google will coddle him.
Inigo Chamerberlin
Jan 7th, 2007
Who, frankly, really gives a shit either way?
Make yourself a public figure, chase publicity, grab money, you have to suck up what comes with it.
Anshe, her husband? Efficient business people. Which is admirable. The only tarnish is their tendency, especially hers, to get too self-important and get carried away with their imagined importance.
Of course the OTHER route to a prominent public profile is to niggle, argue, dispute at every possible opportunity and generally do your very best to make yourself as widely unpopular as possible.
Then whinge about how people are out to get you.
Then got on a soapbox about it at every possible opportunity.
THEN accuse everybody who has the temerity to disagree with your world view, and frequently people who agree with aspects of it, of a wide variety of failings.
This, as you might expect, becomes something of a vicious circle – remind you of anyone?
King Frederick
Jan 7th, 2007
Plastic Duck, if you’re out there: your next big Greef-attack should be to take screenshots and video of all the copyright and trademark violations in Second Life — the thousands, thousands, and thousands of them, compile them into a video or slideshow, post it on YouTube, and wait as the steady train of DMCA orders swallow Second Life like Fenrir swallowing the moon.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 7th, 2007
>This, as you might expect, becomes something of a vicious circle – remind you of anyone?
Uh, yeah. It reminds me of you. You had no persona or identity, until you were able to come on here and attack me and Anshe and other public figures : )
Now you’re whining and whinging over being abruptly smacked back *shrugs*.
If think to point a finger at me, I fear not. I think it’s hugely important to keep criticizing even those who agree with you. I really should have more company in doing this important work.
Seola Sassoon a.k.a Random Writer
Jan 7th, 2007
I thought Anshe Chung lived in and was based out of Germany, and had expanded to China….
Seola Sassoon a.k.a Random Writer
Jan 7th, 2007
Appears I am right: silly lag in brain from just waking up… I can GOOGLE! WOO!
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3e21a6ca-7a37-11db-8838-0000779e2340.html
Published late November.
“”"”The flesh-and-blood person who created and controls this “avatar”, or visual persona, is Ailin Gräf, a Chinese-born teacher who lives in a quiet suburb of Frankfurt.”"”"
So she doesn’t live there, hasn’t moved there and isn’t subject to Chinese traditional laws, regulations and expectations to be ‘an upstanding citizen of China’.
Point is moot, unless you’d like to argue about the Chinese attempting to nationally censor the internet in a general arena. China can’t govern over people who don’t live there, in acts that weren’t originated there….
Joshua Nightshade
Jan 8th, 2007
Firstly, the story of Anshe’s adult activities isn’t a secret. If you ask her yourself she doesn’t deny they happened. She doesn’t consider it prostitution, though, on the basis that to her a prostitute doesn’t choose their clients and doesn’t enjoy the experience. When I asked her about it, she likened it much more to being a “geisha” than a whore. So it’s a matter of semantics, but it’s not a lie. The notecard was written by her. I asked. She doesn’t deny it. If you need to find out yourself, definitely get in touch with her. She isn’t ashamed of what she did, nor should she be really. We’ve all talked dirty in chat before.
As for China, this could very well be a possibility. She lives in Germany and is based there, but she did incorporate a company in China, and I believe that her husband currently lives there to oversee operations while she remains in Germany for the time being. It doesn’t seem implausible that the antics of penispenispenis might worry her in the overly moral land of the red dragon.
Seola Sassoon a.k.a Random Writer
Jan 8th, 2007
But if she is the one depicted, and she’s in Germany, aside from having a branch of the company there… there’s not much morally objectionable ideas behind it.
Inigo Chamerberlin
Jan 8th, 2007
Well, well, lookee here!
Independent verification of what *I* read in Anshe’s profile all those years ago.
Yes Prok – I was around then – which you clearly weren’t, or you’d know it wasn’t ‘hearsay’.
There again, maybe you DO know that, and it just suits you to pretend you don’t? (OMG! I think *I’ve* developed Prok’s Syndrome too! -looks around nervously, seeing conspiracy and personal attacks in every word and action- Arrrgh! They are ALL out to get ME!)
ROFLMAO!
I won’t bother dignifying the rest of your rubbish with a reply – but I do wish you could bring yourself to be content with your own private soap box, which I’d read, if I could stand it, if I could wade through the cloying verbiage of persecution complexes, conspiracy theories and personal vendettas it’s filled with…
Sadly your overwhelming craving is for attention and downright vindictive argument – even to the extent of arguing with those who on occasion agree with you and *some* of your views.
Why anyone seeking to run an online news and current affairs organ would even contemplate allowing you access, let alone posting privileges, is beyond me. Still, that decision is, fortunately for you and your fans, in other hands.
Flutebat prime
Jan 8th, 2007
Its a shame Prokovsky. You do a good job expressing (albiet in caricatured form) the fears of segments of the SL community, and even do a great defence of press freedom
THEN
you blow it to bits with a burst of abject madness like this;-
“The griefing of Anshe’s press conference isn’t “immature griefing by kids,” and to portray it that way and minimize it is part of the whole enabling culture. It’s actually part of a planned, concerted, deliberate, organized network of people continually, routinely commiting crime — DNS attacks, serious griefing with destruction of property and financial loss, and harassment and stalking. Your notion that this is “just a bunch of kids” and we’re supposed to now climb into some harness of false comparisons and moral equivalences is really over the top.”
Riiiiiiiiggghtttoooo….
Daniel Terdiman
Jan 10th, 2007
This is Daniel Terdiman/GreeterDan Godel, from CNET News.com.
I just want to clear one thing up. In the article, Prokofy writes “CNET’s and YouTube’s facile and swift compliance with this order…”
But CNET never considered posting pictures or video of the attack. So we were never asked to take any photos down. We were asked for something else, and we refused. So I need to clear this up. CNET did not capitulate in any way to Anshe’s demands.
Thanks,
Daniel
Inigo Chamerberlin
Jan 10th, 2007
Shock horror!
Prok got his facts, sorry, fantasy, wrong – again?
I simply can’t believe it. CNET must be part of the grand conspiracy…