Newsflash: Group Limit Increase Forthcoming
by matthiaszander on 23/02/06 at 8:27 pm
The Herald has been informed by one of our many anonymous sources that Robin Linden let it slip earlier this week at a meeting of SecondLife residents that in the next update, the group limit would increase. The update, planned for this upcoming Wednesday, has had a "changes" list posted, but it didn’t include this increase in the group limit. The update was delayed, though, as it was supposed to be released yesterday. The exact amount of the increase isn’t known – Robin apparently found that information to be unreleasable. As soon as we find out more information from other leaks (if Robin decides to leak anything else), rest assured that it will be made available here on the Herald.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 23rd, 2006
OK, Matthias, good reporting job, I realize that you are now holding up the entire weight of the Herald’s mission to remain as a free and critical independent press, without fear or favour, “comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable”. But, first, some attention to the five Ws and the two Ks.
The five Ws are who, what, when, where, and why. What sort of meeting was this where Robin Linden would meet with “second life residents” that we weren’t at? Was it public? Not public? On the events calendar? A town hall or a community meeting or what? To whom did she make this comment? Your source? Or is your source recollecting this second-hand?
Next, did Robin say this TODAY or when?
The reason I ask, is because you may not be aware that ages ago — weeks ago — when we were having these focus groups on the covenants and the group tools, Robin and Daniel and other Lindens did in fact already say they were going to try to put in expanded numbers of groups. It was on the to-do list. But Robin specifically said at that time that each time you pull up a group, it’s “a hit to the data base” — her words, which can be seen in those transcripts of weeks ago in the group discussion in the “features” (a little hard to find, but worth reading for a blueprint of some of the sheer awfulness awaiting the structuring of the society of our world, if certain things are done, or go badly).
So, they already “leaked it” in such a way to question whether their comments today are truly a “leak”.
There are currently 15 groups allowed. So they might have 20 or something, if that. All calls to have couples be recognized as groups capable of enjoying the same benefits of groups in terms of land ownership and management seem to fall on deaf ears, sadly.
Oh, you wonder about the two Ks? Those are from Russian journalism, for the Russian phrases “Who Profits?” and “Who is to Blame?” (komu vygodno, kto vinovat). These two “K” questions are always worth asking in every SL report, too.
The winners for more groups are clubs and mall owners, both of who have endless need of groups. They need them, however, as workarounds to the bad group tools. If they granulate the group tools better and take away stuff like treacherous officers being able to steal all the group’s land, then people will have less need for all kinds of groups.
Of course, interest groups abound, too, but businesses using groups have a real motivation for having more of them and keeping them working better.
Matthias
Feb 23rd, 2006
Hmmm, Prokofy, I believe you should re-read this perhaps:
“Robin Linden let it slip earlier this week”
Earlier this week. As in not the same occurrence that you were talking about. As I pointed out, it was specifically specified for the next release. In other words, six days from now. The meeting was one of various residents (from what my source was telling me, I believe it had something to do with the developer’s group that Hiro Pendragon has been organizing). Robin attended for the first half hour or so, and when residents complained about not having enough groups, she let it slip that that was being implemented in the first release.
Exact date-wise, I don’t recall that exactly off-hand, though I know it was a weekday this week, and was not today. I believe remember hearing from a second source that it was on Monday, but don’t quote me on that.
Prok: “The winners for more groups are clubs and mall owners, both of who have endless need of groups.”
Actually, I see the real winner as the store owners and content creators of SecondLife. Sure, club owners and land barons would profit off of better group tools, but as a store owner/content creator myself, I can tell you that group space gets extremely tight. I’m constantly at the max – and that’s without taking into account everything else that I do within SL. Actually, I’ve created an alt for usees of taking care of some of my groups to expand my space.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 23rd, 2006
Umm, Matthias, yeah I read it, and I was prompted to ask more about it because you didn’t report this as a reporter on the scene, you cited a source who told you this, and that made me wonder, was it correct? To wonder if the source really said “let slip earlier this week” when in fact several weeks ago — go look at the forums! –Robin didn’t ‘let slip,” this, she SAID it in plain daylight in a public meeting, and it was discussed. So were the things being confused? Because back then, they said it was coming in the next release too. So there was no “let slip” about it.
As to the winners, well, everybody can use groups. The point is, land groups have land in them, and generate traffic, and that still generates dwell payments and up until this month anyway, used to generate dwell in US dollars. So there was more motivation for them. I fail to see how content creators benefit from better group tools unless you envision them all planning, like Aimee, to hire staff, to be able to return prims, like those little shopping bags people always leave on site.
OK, so now you’re revealing something else, that should have been the real headline of the story — “FIC ‘Developers” Group Meets; Senior Linden Attends”. Geez. When were you going to tell us THAT? Have they finally just gone and formalized the actual institution of the FIC now? Could they now publish the transcripts or minutes of the meeting and make it even more official lol?
Matthias
Feb 23rd, 2006
Believe me Prokofy, the source is quite correct on this. It was just this week, and Robin let it slip that it would definately be in this next update – unless you think that Robin is mistaken.
As to who benefits from better group tools, re-read what I said, Prokofy. I said “Sure, club owners and land barons would profit off of better group tools,” saying that you were CORRECT, but went on to say “but as a store owner/content creator myself, I can tell you that group space gets extremely tight.”
As to the FIC “Developers Group Meeting with a Senior Linden Attending headline, good thought, though I don’t have the full data on exact what the meeting was about or an exact transcript – just that it happened. As to the FIC happening, I believe they are now calling it the SIC – the Surperior Inner Core. Sorry, they’ve stopped using your phrase.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 24th, 2006
You’re not hearing me, Matthias. I’m all for believing that Lindens leak stuff in secret to FIC at FIC meetings — don’t get me wrong, they surely do. I’ll be the first to gang up on the FIC and the Lindens for doing stuff like that. But in the interests of accuracy, let’s take a second look at this, shall we? In this case, Robin didn’t “leak” anything if WEEKS BEFORE THAT she said in an OPEN PUBLIC MEETING whose transcript was reprinted on the forums, that we’d get more group space, the only issue was that it was a “hit to the data base” and a strain on the system so it was on the to-do list but with a question. So where’s the “leak” or the “let slip”? That’s all. You can’t “let slip” something you stated in public weeks before that, duh. You could say “Robin confirmed” or something like that.
There’s no need for me to do any re-reading for the nth time of your little piece, Matthias, please. I didn’t say that you *didn’t* acknowledge that barons and club owners benefit from the group tools. Obviously you did. But I’m still trying to see your point that content creators might be seen to benefit MORE. You are not making your case, champ. How does group space get extremely tight when you have a store? Or one business. OH I KNOW!!! DUH! It’s the SEVEN PROJECTS THAT KEEP YOU REALLY REALLY BUSY IN SECOND LIFE WOOT! Ok, FORGIVE me.
Matthias, I’m doubling — no, tripling over with laughter. It isn’t that they “stopped using my phrase”. Duh. It’s that they started using *my other phrase*. *I’m* the one who pointed out weeks ago that *some of the FIC* has now sequed into something I called “the SIC”. http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2006/01/the_sic.html
Nice try in dissing me, champ. Grow up. Get a hair-cut. Oh, and get a job, too.
Paging Uri, Paging Uri. You know, I’ve LONG wanted to ask why 18-year-old kids get posting privileges as reporters on the Herald but adults who write lots more copy, and frankly, often better copy, do not have such posting privileges, and aren’t even in the editorial group. I mean, what’s up with that?
Cocoanut
Feb 24th, 2006
Prok coined the term “SIC,” as well, and wrote on it on January 3rd.
coco
Matthias
Feb 24th, 2006
Prok – you’re ignoring once again that the “leak” would be that it was this Wednesday’s release – the release notes that have been posted do not contain this information, so yes, I consider this a leak.
Since you obviously don’t know the life of content creators, Prok, or at least ones who display at more than just their own land, I’ll clue you in. Each mall (rightfully so) runs an individual group. Displaying at a mall means you have to join that group. Therefore, content creators need more groups. Very simple path to follow, and every single content creator that I know who displays at more than simply their own land is always gasping for group space.
On the SIC confusion, I obviously missed the newsflash because I honestly don’t consider your blog that newsworthy of a source, sorry to say, Prokofy. It’s great that you have a place to express yourself (besides the Herald, which you take advantage of the freedom of expression on to quite a large extent), though it doesn’t mean you’re an all-important person who must be listened to and every word kept up with. Sorry to burst your bubble.
As for attempting to dis you, I wasn’t, so you’re a bit mistaken there. As for the haircut, how would you know unless you were a bit stalker-ish? Scary thought. last thing I need is a Prokky-stalky. As for a job, I have a quite successful job here on my university campus serving the campus community. To quote you, “nice try in dissing me, champ.”
By the way, I’m not 18, so if your comment directed towards Uri was aimed at me, you’re a bit mistaken.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 24th, 2006
It’s not a leak if she said it was coming already, but whatever.
Re: “Each mall (rightfully so) runs an individual group. Displaying at a mall means you have to join that group. Therefore, content creators need more groups. Very simple path to follow.’
Duh. That’s why I said mall owners need more groups — because they don’t let people like you get the dwell points (unless they are landlords like me), they make tenants join a non-landed group, then sell the land back and forth between their groups to wipe off prims. That way only they, their alts, or their officers get to keep all the dwell.
The tenants who are forced to put out their prims in these arrangements have to first get the invitation to the group — but then after they have put out their vendors, they can leave the group, and free up the space for another group. IF they need to change something weeks later, they can go back and temporarily arrange a group.
A manager of a landed group doesn’t have that luxury — the tier is held in the group and he can’t deliberately risk the land by undertiering it, it can be seized. So he has to be stuck with all those groups, he can’t leave them.
Your comments reveal your ignorance about land management, not any purported ignorance on my part about content makers who are, after all, renting mall and store space from me under better terms than most, in that they get to keep the few dollars of dwell every week. They also can then “set home to here” because I don’t follow this risky, and often damaging (it destroys people’s stores and stalls) practice of selling land back and forth for $0 to myself merely to clean off prims.
We could argue till the cows come home over who needs more groups. But we all grasp that you can’t be too rich, too thin, or have too many groups in SL. My point is that groups are disposable for a content creator once he puts out his wares — they aren’t for the owner of the land on which those wares are put. Now, I realize the mysteries of content creation are secret, arcane, and ritualistic and I will always be in the wrong if I attempt to plumb their depths, but since I actually create some content myself and sell it at malls, I do realize that I can join and leave a group and my prims stay put lol.
Of course you attempted to dis me, champ. Geez. At least stick to your guns. If you aren’t 18, and turned 19, happy birthday! As for the “get a job, get a haircut” — that’s an old saying, I guess before your time, that adults used to say to misbehaving youths. Oh, well, never mind. In the child-centric world in which you grew up and continue to rein in your university, I suppose the concept of “adult” isn’t one you recognize anyway lol.
Trust me, I have no need to stalk anybody in SL *shudders*.
MJ Hathor
Feb 24th, 2006
I was at this meeting on Feb. 21st, 5:30 pm. @ Olive (240,240). This was an IW meeting organized by FlipperPA for the upcoming organization of SLCC ’06. To my knowledge, everyone that was invited were those who had expressed interest in helping or had helped last years SLCC in NYC. So hopefully that answers the W’s
How this came out was that the attendees were being invited to a SLCC organization group and some were already maxed on their groups and unable to give any up. This was vocalized by several. It was at that time that Robin said that their would be an increase to groups in the upcoming week. When asked how much she said that was all she was gonna tell us hehe.
Robin and Jeska Linden were there to lend support and offer their help with the organization of this event. It is to my understanding that Jeska was very involved in last years SLCC and she seemed very excited about this years. She’s already been scouting SF for venues.:)
MJ
Matthias
Feb 24th, 2006
Prokofy:
“Of course you attempted to dis me, champ. Geez. At least stick to your guns.”
I’m glad to know you’re a mind reader. Not only that, you seem to see things that even the person thinking the thoughts didn’t see or think. How amazingly accurate. You should join a circus – I’m sure they could use a new sideshow.
“As for the “get a job, get a haircut” — that’s an old saying, I guess before your time, that adults used to say to misbehaving youths.”
You’re just dating yourself now, though I’ve heard that the pictures circulating around already did that. I haven’t seen them myself, so I can’t comment beyond that on the pictures.
“In the child-centric world in which you grew up and continue to rein in your university, I suppose the concept of “adult” isn’t one you recognize anyway”
Very interesting, dictating once again how I live my life. Remember the last time you tried to do that, Prok? The TrannyPet Barmy thread? You know, the one you never replied to once I gave you a point-by-point breakdown on where you were wrong about me? Perhaps your mind reading that sees things about me that even I don’t see could be useful to you there.
Re: MJ
Thanks for the clarification. I’m assuming that I mis-understood my source on exactly whose meeting it was, though I’m guessing it was a very similar group of people (and one that Prok will see see as either FIC or SIC).