Blizzard: Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. But Go Ahead and Call People “Fag” All You Like.
by walkerspaight on 27/01/06 at 5:40 pm
In Newsweekly ("New England’s Largest GLBT Newsletter") is running a story on an appalling new "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell" policy on the part of Blizzard Entertainment where gay- and lesbian-friendly guilds are concerned (linked from BoingBoing the other day).
Apparently, a member of a World of Warcraft guild advertising itself on the Blizzard forums as "GLBT-friendly" (though also specifying it was not GLBT-only) received a warning notice from Blizzard recently saying company admins would have banned her from the game but were feeling magnanimous that day. When the player protested that there must be some mistake, Blizzard responded that no, the mistake was hers, for inviting discrimination from Blizzard’s obviously victimized player-base:
"While we appreciate and understand yourpoint of view, we do feel that the advertisement of a ‘GLBT friendly’guild is very likely to result in harassment for players that may nothave existed otherwise. If you will look at our policy, you will noticethe suggested penalty for violating the Sexual Orientation HarassmentPolicy is to ‘be temporarily suspended from the game.’ However, asthere was clearly no malicious intent on your part, this penalty wasreduced to a warning."
As the In Newsweekly article goes on to note, general chat in any number of zones (but especially the Barrens, as we know) is regularly filled with unkind epithets including the words "gay," "fag," and various other permutations. But try to make a place in WoW in which all sexual persuasions are welcomed and you get threatened with the Blizzard boot. I guess this means they’ll be banning all the toons that strip down to their underpants soon too?
Hopefully this is going all the way to some big interest group. I can just see the in-world ACT UP protests now.
Athel Richelieu
Jan 27th, 2006
This is ridiculous and outrageous on the part of Blizzard, and I hope it does reach some groups or high up people who will handle this as our community (The GLBT) is able to handle such situations.
Athel Richelieu
Jan 27th, 2006
Also to note that WoW was being reviewed as a pretty cool game in some nationwide gay magazines (Instinct or Genre) so I wonder how it will be reviewed now, I imagine this is something that won’t go unnoticed.
Avah (Fallen Hasp)
Jan 27th, 2006
What a minute. You guys are kidding me right? SMALL CHILDREN play wow. What business do you have introducing sexuality openly at all . . gay, straight or otherwise. Give me a break. Blizzards policy is just fine. If you dont like being censored you need to petitions for an adults only server.
Athel Richelieu
Jan 27th, 2006
“SMALL CHILDREN play wow. What business do you have introducing sexuality openly at all . . gay, straight or otherwise” – Avah (Fallen Asp)
Well Blizzard is being selective in their censoring. This comment is ridiculous from just a standpoint if you read or know about fully, but you must not. From what I understand from friends who play WoW, players of WoW are exposed to all kinds of sexual things that you call “straight sexuality”. All kinds of sexual things that most likely this person who wanted to start this guild did not intend to promote, they only wanted to promote a supportive environment. You also sound as if you are convinced of the fallacy that all the GLBT community is is about sex, when obviously its not.
I think your post though, if it really is as ignorant as it sounds (Not calling you ignorant, but that observation is ignorant) is a flame, but I don’t know you well enough to say that it just really is an uneducated comment you made.
I am sure there are “Christian” guilds in WoW, so should they be censored too so “children” of other religions won’t be exposed to different religions?
Cocoanut
Jan 28th, 2006
Outrageous AND . . . ridiculous.
coco
Triona
Jan 28th, 2006
I think I’d have to agree with Athel’s opinion here. I’ve been a part of a community that was all about acceptance with GLBTs, although I personally don’t fall under that category. There’s nothing wrong about a group that supports people’s decisions, even if that group is accessible to children. If anything, I think more kids need to undertand the importance of acceptance. There’s far too little in the adult world as it is.
Avah (Fallen Hasp)
Jan 28th, 2006
No you dont get to accuse me of bashing gays sorry. No im not ignorant You dont know what You are talking about. I dont think Guys or straights or any other sexual group should be openly introducing sexual content of any kind in World of Warcraft at all period end of discussion. I play that game everyday with 8 – 10 year old children. there is absolutely no room for debate on this topic. Its completely inappropriate. If you dont like being censored then you need to petition for an adults only server. Moreover, if you feel straights are being allowed an unfair advantage (their sexual content being allowed openly) then please do a service to the entire community and report it. Keep sexual talk to whispers please. Children are present.
Avah (Fallen Hasp)
Jan 28th, 2006
Being gay isnt a religion its a sexual preference. I know the gay community is a culture. Thats not the point. Its a culture centered around their sexual preference. Its not appropriate in an environment for children. If a straight swingers group or BDSM group was being censored by Blizzard i would feel the same way. Youre arguement makes no sense at all.
Athel Richelieu
Jan 30th, 2006
Avah: In that case, I understand where you are coming from on the children’s part, but still there are other groups bringing a lot more sexual “content” than gay groups, and Blizzard is clearly doing selective censoring. And there are a lot of other forums where children are being exposed to all kinds of things, I imagine most of the children who play WoW know how to use something called the “Internet” and have found out and seen for themselves a lot worse things than they will ever see on WoW.
Avah (Fallen Hasp)
Jan 30th, 2006
Yes Im afraid you are right. And, I understand where you are coming from as well. I do sympathize and agree Blizzard is probably being very selective. No I dont think its fair. All Im saying to you is this. Two wrongs arent gonna make a right. Sometimes, its better to take the high road. There are other ways to balance the inequality without creating even more confusion for these children. Im pretty sure their parents wouldnt approve of ANY group taking it upon themselves to educate their children regarding sexual preference or any number of adult topics. Its bad poilcy for Blizzard to allow you or any other group free reign. If you feel they are doing this then you should raise your voice against it. Not join in and say “Yeah me too.”
Lotte Twilight
Jan 30th, 2006
GLBTQ people are not centered around their sexual preference alone. Mentioning that so and so is gay or lesbian is 100% appropriate in front of kids of all ages. That’s how you teach tolerance, in fact. My small children know what it means to be a gay person versus a straight person and it’s a difference of whom they *love* not what sorts of sex acts they perform (gay and straight sex isn’t even that different when you think on it). Seriously, talking about sexual orientation is not the same thing as talking about sex acts or talking about sex preferences. I agree that telling a kid about your kinky side is totally inappropriate (and confusing for the child) but there is NOTHING wrong with telling kids about GLBTQ PEOPLE (not the sex they do or don’t have).
Avah, you really need to learn about the GLBTQ community before you spout off at such length about GLBTQ communities and “sexual preference” or whatever. The term GLBTQ is not a description of SEX, it’s a description of PEOPLE and their gender identities/the gender identities of the people they love. Sex is 100% incidental. GLBTQ groups like to have a high visibility in non-sex events and places so they can break people of the habit of straight people always associating GLBTQ people with sex. When you hear straight you likely think “yeah, what of it?” and picture a man and woman together… big whoop, right? But someone says Gay and the proper reaction should also be “yeah, what of it?” and maybe you picture two guys on a bicycle built for two. The *point* of GLBT folks wanting to say “GLBT” on every thing they touch/do/read/buy in the world is so eventually after much time and persistence all the straights in the world will hear GLBTQ and say “yeah, so what?” and not think “ah! pervy sex fiends who want to tell my kids about teabagging and Madonna CDs” etc. ;p
And frankly: if your 8 or 10 year old is playing WoW unsupervised, you are already a suckass parent and shouldn’t complain if anyone in-world tries to educate your kid… they probably NEED it if their parents let them play adult MMOGs. Sexual orientation is not an “adult topic” either- it’s reality. Some boys marry boys and some kids have two mommas… everyone needs to deal with that. Isn’t an 8 or 10 year old violating Blizzard’s TOS? That seems ridiclously young to be playing alongside adults in a world with private chat.
Athel Richelieu
Jan 30th, 2006
I have to say I agree with Lotte 100% on all points.
And truly, as I said, it is unlikely that the GLBT guilds in WoW are really that sexual at all. I am sure there are many other groups that are far more literally sexual than the GLBT guilds which is a way for the community in WoW to come together and share comradeship (Not anything sexual).
As with any group, people like to band together with common interests, and this includes GLBT people.
Avah (Fallen Hasp)
Jan 30th, 2006
Wow isnt an adult MMOG. Well I looked on the front of the box and it says its rated TEEN. I dont know what that means but Im assuming 13. Maybe someone else knows. Youre right. The kids I play with are probably too young to be in game. Ive never seen an age requirement enforced however. And, its widely known young children play WoW. Its really not for you to say what parents think are adult topics. You dont have the authority to decide what parents want to expose their children to in the name of public awareness or any other reason. Whether the child in question is 8 or 13 is irrelevant. And, the fact that parent may be naive or unaware of the type of situations that may occur in this game does not mean they dont care about their kids. Its almost as if youre suggesting they dont care and therefore you can do whatever you want, expose their children to whatever you want without having a conscious. Thats really fucked up. In the real world, common sense would suggest yeah of course it may be healthy to expose children to the idea of tolerance. But regardless of how you dress it up gender indentity and preference are considered mature themes and they are better explained by parents and sex health teachers in school than by random adult strangers in a children’s video game. There is no point trying to suggest otherwise. Also, the fact that GLBTQ people are not centered around their sexual preference alone is irrelevant. Its that it centers around it at all thats the problem. Its that its even a part of the identity of the group at all thats the issue. Its really inappropriate. And, may I also add, this entire discussion makes me really nervous for one other very important reason. Its always a risk to have adults and children playing alongside eachother in a game. The lines easily become blurred and avatar anonymity can mask all kinds of stranger danger. Its also nearly impossible to tell the age of the player behind an avatar. There is a reason adult themes and situations are against ToS and not encouraged. Youve thrown around alot of misinformation and tapped danced around the issue in an effort to validate your position. But, Im calling bullshit on it. Its not that im unsympathetic to your issues. I see your position very clearly. But, I care more about the children in game, who are helpless against your tactics to assimulate them into full acceptance or participation in your group or lifestyle. You can say anything you want about your objectives. But why should anyone take your word for it. And, the best of intentions can go horribly wrong. This can be said of any mature themed group and is not singling you out. So dont bother accusing me yet again. Better to leave the entire issue to those with the authority or training to handle it. No I dont think you should be allowed a public presence in game.
Athel Richelieu
Jan 30th, 2006
Avah (Fallen Hasp)
“But, I care more about the children in game, who are helpless against your tactics to assimulate them into full acceptance or participation in your group or lifestyle”
You don’t want to be considered sounding ignorant, but you keep using phrases which display ignorance on your part about the GLBT community.
If random Gay, Lesbian, Bi, or Transgendered people want to do such, they are going to do it regardless of if they are united as a group or not. Individual gay people can shout out their identity all they want.
But as a group, the purpose of GLBT groups/guilds I have seen in games (and I am assuming the GLBT one in WoW) is to unite people of a common interest, NOT convert or “assimulate” any one.
Your continued uses of such phrases sounds ignorant. Again, there are ALOT of sexual themes on WoW and ways for people to be exposed to SEX. It may just be that WoW is an adult game that has been labeled incorrectly, if so this is NOT the people trying to start a GLBT guild’s fault, if Blizzard is allowing other adult groups and culture in game (which they are) then yes a GLBT guild should be allowed.
This is targeting GLBT as the “Worst possible thing” when there are MANY other things going on, if Blizzard is going to deal with the issue then they should deal with EVERYONE at once, and deal with the adult issue OVERALL. Yes, we do have a right to complain if the game seems mislabeled and everything else adult is being allowed except GLBT.
Avah (Fallen Hasp)
Jan 30th, 2006
“It may just be that WoW is an adult game that has been labeled incorrectly, if so this is NOT the people trying to start a GLBT guild’s fault, if Blizzard is allowing other adult groups and culture in game (which they are) then yes a GLBT guild should be allowed . . ”
Excuse me but what the hell are you talking about. Do you realize how surreal this thread is becoming? I already explained to you five posts ago that if you feel straights are being allowed an unfair advantage (their sexual content being allowed openly) then please do a service to the entire community and report it. No the GLBT guild should not be allowed and neither should any other adult group. If thats something you require to shoot cartoon monsters in a game than you should petition Blizzard for an adult server. Im really bored and tired of explaining this. Im sorry you dont get it. I went out of my way to explain my point of view. You just wanna argue the same points over and over without actually absorbing anything. You accuse anyone who dares to disagree of being a gay basher. But I think its YOU that lacks an open mind or objectivity, not me. My arguement was valid and you havent offered one counterarguement that addresses my concerns other than to insult my intelligence and dismiss me. Well opinions are like assholes, we both have them and mine is off limits. Do whatever you want. I couldnt care less. But i reckon you wont get very far with that self serving attitude. You might try putting the community first instead of aggressively promoting your agenda in an environment its ill suited for. Im done discussing this.
Riss
Jan 31st, 2006
It would seem to me that a guild for “GLBT Friendly” people is no different than one for married couples. Not swingers or anything sexual like that, just people who are married and like to go crush monsters and chat with similar couples. I fail to see how that’s inappropriate, sexual, or exposing children to things they wouldn’t ordinarily see. If that’s not allowed, and singles guilds aren’t allowed, then by all means… forbid GLBT guilds.
I know a straight woman with a twelve year old daughter who is a lesbian. All she and her girlfriend do is hold hands, just like in any of the innocent heterosexual puppy loves people ‘aww’ over. Do you consider that ‘sexual content’? Do you think they should lie to their friends about their relationship so other kids aren’t exposed to the fact they care about each other? I’m sure some parents would disapprove. You feel very strongly about protecting young minds, and that’s damned admirable, but I’d think if you believe something like this is such a dangerous and inappropriate influence on kids you’d be against them playing a game with bikini-clad, dirty dancing elves at all.
Wouldn’t such blatant sexuality be more of a concern than who loves who?
*Shrugs*
Also, on the subject of something mentioned in the article that wasn’t commented on very much… I’m pretty sure anyone using racial slurs in the game would get into trouble pretty quickly. ‘Fag’ should be just as big of a no-no.
~A Future SL Resident
Amanda
Jan 31st, 2006
Just as a quick note, world of warcraft is rated teen (content is suitable for ages 13 and over) so the “kids play” argument doesn’t really justify blizzards actions, if 8-10 year old kids are playing the game then whoever is allowing it should expect them to view content that may not be suitable for their age whether ot not that content be open homosexuality. I think that there can be argument in support of blizzards actions but saying that kids play isn’t a valid one.
Triona
Jan 31st, 2006
I highly suggest that ~everyone~ should read World of Warcraft’s official Code of Conduct. Here, I’ll throw out the main points. Trust me, I’m not leaving out anything that would hurt my argument.
Sexual Orientation: No insulting referalls to any aspect of sexual orientation pertaining to themselves or other players.
Obscene/Vulgar: Nothing pornographic in nature.
Extreme Sexuality: Nothing that refers to extreme and/or violent sexual acts.
Innappropriate language: Nothing otherwise considered objectionable.
Personally, I look at those terms and I can’t see why a GLBT-friendly guild shouldn’t be allowed in World of Warcraft. No one is insulting any sexual orientation, it isn’t extreme or violent like BDSM, it isn’t pornographic, and it ~shouldn’t be objectionable~. Except for that last little note, there is no argument that a GLBT guild shouldn’t be allowed.
As for the problem of children in the game… I knew what GLBTQs were all about by the time I was eight, and I didn’t learn it online or from my family. I learned about it in public elementary school. I come from a very conservative and small town, but by the fifth grade, everyone knew all about GLBTQ and things that were actually potentially harmful: drugs, sex, etc. You can’t protect kids from this kind of stuff. GLBTQness isn’t even a dangerous thing for kids to learn! Knowledge of alternative sexualities will not necessarily convert your child to homosexuality. Ignorance of them will only inhibit them later in life, when they find that they actually have to be accepting of other’s personal choices. The GLBTQ-friendly group was simply trying to create an educational and supportive society. They’re not advocating their way of life or degrading anyone else’s.
I do have one little problem with a GLBTQ guild. Blizzard’s reason for destroying the guild was supposedly to defend the guild’s members from unnecessary harrassment. I logged on the other day and was nearly immediately bombarded with flames of ‘fag,’ so I can see why Blizzard wouldn’t want a guild to exist that calls extra attention to the matter of sexuality. However, I’d argue that the benefits of having a GLBTQ guild outranks that. The members would know what they are getting into. If someone harrassed them, the harrasser would be reported to Blizzard, which should take the appropriate disciplinary actions. The only one inconveinienced is Blizzard, but it’s corrupt if that is the true motivation behind their banning of the guild.
In the end, the deciding factor for every individual is whether or not he personally considers GLBTQ to be offensive. I’m an advocate of tolerance myself. I mentioned earlier that I’ve been in a GLBTQ-friendly group in RL, as a straight participant. There was never any pressure for me to change my sexual orientation; they were supportive of my heterosexuality. Why would I fail to return the favor?
Avah (Fallen Hasp)
Jan 31st, 2006
We will have to agree to disagree. Not only do I think its inappropriate to introduce adult topics like this publically in World of Warcraft, where indeed children are encouraged to play and its very legal for them to participate. But, I think you are all very selfish and self serving for only caring about your own agenda and rationalizing your own behavior. My respect for everyone posting here has plummeted to zero. You really have no right to expose someone else’s child to anything they deem inappropriate but you all feel you somehow have the authority to educate other peoples children. I dont care if im the only one willing to post in opposition to you. And no matter how many times you call me a bigot or gay basher its not gonna make any of your accusations true. And, its not gonna make what you propose morally right. You are all so dense and reactionary that you cant even understand my posts. “Woohoo Im gay and proud Its really important in my life and the only way I can identify myself as a person” Guess what? No one cares if youre straight or gay. The fact that its the core of your identity is really sad tho, to the point where you cant even play a video game with children without making your sexual preferences public knowledge to the entire server. Keep posting and telling me what a biggot I am. Jerks.
Riss
Feb 1st, 2006
I wasn’t calling you a biggot, I was trying to understand your point of view a bit better while stating my own opinion. An opinion, I might add, that’s just as valid as your own. You didn’t even respond to any of my points… Instead you complained about how mean everyone is being and berated all who’ve disagreed with you. o_O
I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I wasn’t attacking you as a person, or even really *attacking* your viewpoint. If you felt I did, sorry. I don’t agree with you but riling you up further wasn’t my intention.
From the namecalling, I’d guess you’re getting a bit too worked up about this. If what people are saying offends you, maybe you should do as you originally said you were going to and just stop posting on this topic. Maybe get a stress ball or something. Yikes.
~A Future SL Resident
Matthias
Feb 1st, 2006
“Not only do I think its inappropriate to introduce adult topics like this publically in World of Warcraft, where indeed children are encouraged to play and its very legal for them to participate. But, I think you are all very selfish and self serving for only caring about your own agenda and rationalizing your own behavior.” ~Avah
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as someone (I believe it was also Avah) pointed out above. The question in this case, though, isn’t what individuals feel is right, it’s what the company has said in their ToS and whether or not that’s being upheld.
As Triona very accurately pointed out, this GLBT-friendly group did NOT explicity break the Blizzard/WoW ToS with what they have been said to have done here. Let me make this clear: I don’t play WoW, I never have played WoW, and I never intend to play WoW. This, however, seems to me more like a general ethical and moral issue.
My own personal feelings towards any parties involved in this aside, I personally believe that Blizzard made a huge error, and should reverse the decision as soon as is possible.
Amanda
Feb 1st, 2006
You really have no right to expose someone else’s child to anything they deem inappropriate but you all feel you somehow have the authority to educate other peoples children….the fact that its the core of your identity is really sad tho, to the point where you cant even play a video game with children without making your sexual preferences public knowledge to the entire server. Keep posting and telling me what a biggot I am. Jerks.
-avah
yes. it’s the OTHER posters who are being reactionary. jerks. regarding the claim that WoW members have no right to expose or educate other peoples children, I think that’s a ridiculous suggestion, you could reverse that point and similarly claim that other people have no right to blame you for what their children are exposed to. parents have the final say in what their children are exposed to insofar as they have controls over their activities. now obviously they dont know everything that will happen near around or within listening distance of their children but a mature adult, who choses to allow their child (a term I’m using losely since as the games content is publicly broadcast to be suitably for those 13+) to play WoW should allready be aware that in allowing their children to play a MMOG they are opening them up to sexuality, violence and the opinions of people all around the world. In chosing to allow their child to become part of a massive worldwide community, they should expect that they will not have complete choice over the content their child will find within the game as it is constantly changing and evolving. there is no WoW V-chip which can take away the sexy elves or sexist comments, and a responsible parent, knowing what games their children are playing should know that.
also avah i think you have the groups intentions all wrong. i dont think that they are trying to “broadcast” their sexuality, it is just an important facet of their life, and the way they chose to connect to other players. it is, of course a similiarity which often comes with common experiences, and as long as they aren’t screaming about anal sex or blow jobs, i dont think that gathering based on sexuality is any worse than dave matthews band fans gathering based on that, as long as they dont rave about getting baked at the concerts.
having sorted that out I argue that..well this isn’t even the issue. the moral issue here, isn’t whether children should be exposed to homosexuality, or whether homosexuals have a right to express their homosexuality in front of children, but whether or not Blizzard is discriminating in its removal of this specific sexual content. which it obviously is.
and the legal issue, which is the only one that counts for blizzard, is simply whether or not they can legally shut down this group, according to their policy. which isn’t clear at this point since we dont have complete information on the gropus actions. however if their codes of conduct etc. do allow them to shut down this group, then that will be the final legal decision, since as a private corporation they can legally discriminate based on sexuality.
I agree that blizzard has made a mistake. there is a big homosexual gaming community, and as word of this gets out I think it could very well have a negative affect on their views of blizzard and participation in WoW. I personally allready know two obsessed players who have quit the game after hearing about Blizzards actions. so lgbta members and supporters, you can give thanks to our free market economy for allowing the dollar to have the final say in most major corporations decisions.
Riss
Feb 1st, 2006
You’re right, Matthias. I did go off on a bit of a tangent, albeit one that was *related* to the topic at hand.
As I said in my original post… If similar guilds are permitted and/or if a GLBT guild would not be against the rules, it should be allowed.
However, I sincerely doubt that Blizzard is going to go back on their decision. Maybe they honestly do feel they’re protecting a group from harassment, but I doubt it. If that were the case, they would crack down on the use of the word ‘fag’. I suspect they just don’t want to deal with people’s complaints.
fuckyouall
Jul 2nd, 2006
LoL all of you guys are fucktards
ganzas
Jul 22nd, 2006
im a very liberal person , but dont forget this game is rated 12+.