Confessions of a Gorean Slave, Part 1
by Urizenus Sklar on 16/02/06 at 9:21 pm
As I said in the comments to my retirement post, I have a few things left in the hopper that I will be posting, so that I might go out with a bang, rather than a wimper. The following is part 1 of a 5 part story by humdog on her life as a Gorean Slave in Second Life. Oh by the way, today in Toontown I saw a character named Kajira! (Has Gor come to Toontown?!?!) –Uri
Confessions of a Gorean Slave, Part 1, by humdog
It was early in the evening when I met a man I will call Soames Forsyte. I met him in the recesses of one of those cesspool of the spirit that SL calls clubs where they have dungeons and private rooms and escorts and objects like that. Nobody dragged me there. Tell you the truth, I was bored and just wandering around. Now Soames was handsome – but that’s not unusual, because everyone in SL is just about as beautiful and sexy and desirable as their skill with sliders permits. These strangely and also clone-ish surfaces are an important part of the lucid dream that is Second Life. It makes me want to quote from that song “Round Here” where they say:
Round here we all look the same
Round here we roar like lions
Round here we sacrifice like lambs
Round here we stay up very very very very late (– Counting Crows)
To me, that SL in a nutshell, but to make it short:
I met Soames, and I went with him into his world, and his world is called roleplay Gor.
It would be very easy to write a story about roleplay Gor that would begin something like this:
“In December 2005, in Pakistan, a man called ======= killed his 24 year old daughter for dishonoring him, and then he killed his three stepdaughters, all under age 10. He then threatened to kill his wife for screaming while he killed her children. Mr. —- was very matter-of-fact when confronted by police about these so-called honor-killings, and explained to them that he had picked up the machete used in the killings on his way home from mid-day prayers. According to Human Rights Watch, there were at least 250 honor killings in the Middle East during the year 2005, and those are the ones they know about. In roleplay Gor, honor killings are acceptable.
In Afghanistan, and in other so-called conservative Muslim cultures, the honorable women of Muslim families are expected to wear a long robe called a Burka, which conceals a woman from head to foot, and includes the use of a face veil. Women in these cultures are expected to wear these robes whenever venturing outside their homes, and are not allowed to travel without an escort, preferably male, of some sort. In roleplay Gor, the Burka is called “Robes of Concealment”, five to eight face veils are required, and a freewoman wears this regalia and does not travel un-escorted….
A person writing an article about roleplay Gor that began that way would be opening themselves to a certain amount of screaming from the roleplay Gor community in SL. A person who wrote wondering why roleplay Gor celebrates human sexual slavery – an activity that continues to roll merrily along in modern Thailand and Africa, for example – would be accused of Sensational Tabloid Journalism about activities that simply are either exaggerated, happen by mutual consent, or just don’t exist. No doubt at least one irritable Ubar in some Gorean backwater of SL would get on the horn to His legal advisors and send a couple enraged letters to the editorial staff of the publication unfortunate enough to attract His attention should He see such awkward statements in print. After all, an Ubar’s work is never done.
No one here, however, is foolish enough to draw parallels between Taliban fashion statements and the wardrobe requirements of the Gorean Free Woman. No one here is silly enough to wonder why so many apparently well-heeled and apparently bored middle class Western European and American wives, mothers, students, and career women are willing to sign up and pay the cost of entry so that other well-heeled and apparently bored middle class men (and women) can roleplay social and sexual crimes against women in this very unusual and intriguing manner. Human sexual slavery is, after all, a RL problem. RL human sexual slavery with kidnapping, beatings, and forced prostitution is different, isn’t it, from the RP fantasies of a few thousand people waving the “safe, sane, consensual” BDSM flag? Anyway, it is clearly obvious that nobody is recruiting newbie women for these RP Second Life activities, and it goes without saying that absolutely no SL resident is recruiting RL subs and slaves from the SL population. That never happens. We all know that.
But I did go off with Mr. Forsyte. He had a room upstairs and I went there and he said undress and I did and then he made requests which I performed in the most cordial way possible. When I was leaving he said something to me and at the end of the list of his requests/orders/desires, he added “and you will wear my kol’lar…” and I felt shocked at this request and said no. Then we had this loop where he said you will and I said no, I won’t, and we went through that a few times until the loop lost its charm.
For those few people left in SL who do not know what a collar or kol’lar is, I will tell you that it is a complex symbol. The collar is an extremely tangible and visible symbol of a very powerful multi-level relationship of surrender. Putting on a kol’lar is a statement of transfer of personal power and control from the person wearing the kol’lar to the person who has given the kol’lar. The kol’lar itself tends to be made of metal or leather or some such material, and looks in many cases like the collar worn by a dog or some other pet animal, and in fact often the person wearing the kol’lar is addressed as “my pet” or is referred to as “my pet”.
(to be continued…)
zed
Feb 20th, 2006
Very interesting comparison. Iran seems to have have even more controlled black burka than the Afghan one.
Lady Cletic
Feb 20th, 2006
How much “control” can one have in SL?? I mean it is a game, and the control still remains with the so called “slave”. So it will be interesting to see if this person is complaining about being a slave or is merely just letting the reader know what is involved with the role play. There is now REAL way one can be inslaved in SL. Should be an interesting read at any rate…
Chiling
Feb 21st, 2006
I don’t know how it works, but I was told that once an avie accept the kol’lar, the avie will be leashed to the master permanently unless the master decides to release her. The act of acceptance is freewill but the avie will no longer have any freedom from that point onwards.
humdog
Feb 21st, 2006
about the kol’lar:
the collar or kol’lar is scripted, usually. what this means is that althought the collar/kol’lar can be detached from the avie wearing it at any time, DURING the time that the avie wears the collar/kol’lar, the movements of the avie are under the control of the “master”. when an avie puts the collar/kol’lar on, a script can be activated that lists another avie as “owner” or “master”/”mistress”. the collar/kol’lar comes with a list of animations and poses such as “tower” (kneel with knees together): “nadu” (kneel with knees apart so as to expose the genital area to view) and various other poses of differing levels of exposure. some of these devices also contain one rather strange and degrading pose called “cleaning” where the wearer of the device licks him or herself like a dog — this is one i saw recently, came as sort of a surprise to me.
the collar/kol’lar also provides the “master”/”mistress” the ability to attach a leash to the avie that will restrict the avie’s distance from the owner, and also provides a caging functionality as well. additionally, some collars/kol’lars provide a kind of feedback functionality that permits the owner to know whether or not the wearer has removed the collar/kol’lar by sending a message to the owner.
the person identified by the collar/kol’lar as “owner” of the avie wearing the device does in fact take control of the movements/poses of the person wearing it until such time as the wearer either takes the device off, or moves out of range of the owner.
the list of animations/poses permitted is extensive, probably around 15-20 poses, maybe even more. i saw one collar that i think had about 30 poses/anims available, again possibly more.
a collar/kol’lar is easily purchased at any Gorean marketplace, as well as in regular sex toy stores.
there is somewhere on the net a site where some woman took pictures of herself in many of the kajira poses, or you can just ask a slave for a copy the free slave anims, and put yourself through them to see what they’re like.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 21st, 2006
This is one of the things I find most distressing about Second Life scenes, these collars. For some people, who have BDSM Lite or Weekend Gor, the collar seems merely a kind of fetish, a kind of high school or fraternity ring you wear to show your undying love for your betrothed. The yanking on it doesn’t seem anything more than playful — it’s important to remember that even though there are custodians of these themed sims and themed and restrictive lifestyles who like to think they run these smelly little orthodoxies (as Orwell called authoritarian belief systems), in fact there is a huge amount of variation as the memes get copied and diluted and changed as they spread like wildfire across the grids.
I see some candidates for the teen grid just put on their profiles “looking for slaves” and take them on in the crudest fashion, with none of the fancy gilded Gor talk or BDSM ritualization, which is inevitable with this kind of thing.
What I find disturbing — and it is MORE than fine to continue to express consternation at this lifestyle, its beliefs, and its implications, just like this lifestyle feels it’s more than fine to appear in SL under the rubric of tolerance (tolerance means tolerance of my criticism too : )) — is when a person arrives to an event with their collar and chains clinking and clanking before them, so to speak, as they are scripted items that “talk” into chat before the avatar is rezzed. So the collar — the master’s collar — arrives first, before the person, and you then see this person trussed up, dehumanized, belittled. Some masters enjoy coming to public events, even outside the BDSM sphere, and making their slave cavort, forcing them into those poses of dog-like licking, crouching, etc. It’s sickening to watch. The defensiveness with which people keep talking about their “voluntary acceptance” of this cultic activity adds to the sickness you feel.
It’s particularly sickenning when such collared, trussed-up, controlled people arrive at something that is billed as a kind of free-thinking space, like a Thinker’s Meeting. Indeed, one of the particularly sickening things involving the BDSM apologists comes from Traxx Hathor on the forums this week saying he thinks it’s great that collared people come to Thinkers and feel “free to engage in their roleplay,” i.e. to put their BDSM roleplay “civilizational” norms into the public space of free thinking and free speech (ostensibly) because they feel they can not only impose it, but find a happy home for it. Indeed they do, with authoritarian personalities you find in Thinkers, both on the left and right, they’re only too happy to embrace BDSM and Gorean lifestyles because they track with their own ideologies, and they can also appear like good liberals if they truss the whole thing up in a package of “you have to be tolerant”.
The spectacle of the clinking and clanking chained and collared slaves and subs “speaking their mind” at Thinkers, with their approving doms patronizingly telling everyone they love their subs to have an opinion, etc., is one of the more bizarre and duplicitious sights of SL.
Well it will be written of Western civilization that it reached its epitome with the Orwellian “freedom is slavery” and fought for the freedom, even against the slaveries of past centuries, to be able to “voluntarily accept” slavery to others.
humdog
Feb 21st, 2006
prokkie i will tell you why i find your comments about Gor and D/s almost useless. It is because there is nothing in your comments that suggests that you have ANY experience with living any of this.
these are complex matters. they must be lived.
oh. and i am offended by the idea that you do not welcome the idea that a Master would let His girl talk, or think. please. everytime you write about this subject you perform an act of self-disclosure that displays what you don’t know. kind of a nadu-wide of ignorance.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 22nd, 2006
Yes, hummie, as I always say, what these cults do, is they always tell you that you’re in the wrong — as I’ve so often explained, to try to head off the endless, pointless, stupid debate that has already taken place on these pages, where raging assholes try to prove that pain that is producing endorphins sometimes doesn’t produce actual pain if not psychological misery sometimes, too — obviating the difference, and suppressing the true facts of the situation.
You always have to bow down before them, and humble yourself to their great wisdom. They always keep you off balance by telling you that you just haven’t lived it, that it’s oh-so-special, that it is just SO out of reach of the average mortal, etc. etc. Kinda like…accepting Jesus into your heart and realizing God has a Plan for your life, etc. It’s never anything that can be explained in any reasonable, normal, ordinary discourse. It always requires some kind of trip to sensory- and intelligence-deprivation land, suspension of disbelief, and trusting of some “master”. So that’s why it’s all a sham. No sale, hummie.
Hello, no, I don’t accept as some kind of “liberal” gesture what some asshole Master does by magnanimously “letting” his “girl” (ugh) “speak her own mind” — which is of course, all just so much fake posturing — deeply artificial, so artificial that it’s apparently snookering otherwise intelligent people. Why would I accept as authentic a gesture of liberalism for a slave to speak their mind — when the real thing to ask for is slaves simply be free and throw over this silly cult and speak their minds without having their heads jerked on a leash? Slackening the leash for a Thinker’s meeting isn’t freedom.
OK, let me borrow from an image I read recently. Let’s say you’re a duck. You go flying around the pond. You see some other ducks, you think they’re like you. They quack, they eat fish, whatever. You fly up to them. But then…something about them seems a little…off…and then you realize there is an almost invisible cord tied to them…and they are decoys, being wielded by hunters. They look like a duck, talk like a duck but…they are decoys.
Um, no, hummie, pasting some meme out of this cult about spreading your legs for assholes like this and calling it some kind of precious vulnerability, and then putting that over on me as exemplary of my “ignorance” about these cults just won’t fly, any more than those decoy ducks can really fly without their strings. No. I question this entire fake construct called Gor and BDSM — and that sure is hell my right and I will go on doing it if it is served up in the public space as something masquerading as the civilization we’re all supposed to accept. I do not accept it. I refuse. That’s my right. I don’t care if people accept it and do it, that’s their funeral. They can do WTF they want on their own land, in their own sims, in their own houses. It’s surely their business. When they emerge to try to put this over as an ideology on the public sphere, I condemn it.
MagnumSerpentine
Mar 10th, 2006
Prokofy,
How many bloody times do I have to keep telling you, Gor is NOT A CULT.
Jabador Jimador
Mar 13th, 2006
sorry for reopening this thread, but reading the comments by humdog, simply made this one sick. it is scary how little You are willing to embrace other cultures than Your own, and it is scary how You insist on calling Gor a cult. This one does not live in a true Gor relationship, but rather in a Gor’ish D/s relationship. This one loves her Master more than anything, and He is not forcing this one to do anything.
please try to understand that people actually enjoy this way of living, that it has nothing to do with force, and that You, with all due respect, obviously does not understand.
Auguste
Mar 13th, 2006
For those who wish to bring their slave/slave scenes outside of Gor sims into public places, I would suggest you read this article by Dan Savage.
But BDSM isn’t ultimately who you are, it’s what you enjoy in bed—or in the dungeon, the playroom, the fetish club, etc. Here’s a rough rule of thumb: If you’re talking about something that gay, straight, and bisexual people can all do—fisting, snowballing, BDSM—then it’s a sex act, not a sexual identity. However many times you collar your slave, however many slave contracts he signs, however many nights he sleeps in a cage, it’s still a sex act, and forcing your family [or, Auguste says, the general SL public] to watch you treat him like your slave compels them to participate in your sex life. And, again, that’s not okay.
Lifixs Ixtab
Mar 14th, 2006
Gor is a book series.
All that happens in sl is voluntary.
Gor is a fictional world with many cultures and it is only natural that some people will want to role-play some of it.
In the books there are almost (Its a big series and I have yet to finish so I say almost) no detailed accounts of sex.
Don’t judge gor as a whole.
The people who were BDSM folks to begin with do not represent all the people who enjoy the books.
andolf
May 29th, 2006
LOL, love to see the argument, i DEFINITELY see tat it is a cult LOL, if u dun think so, mayb coz u r stupid enuff not to look up the definition. yup, i been thur RL muslim ppl/countries/ europe/ asia. I believe american dunno about the world alot, we should get outside to see the world ourself, then i’ll respect your view point of it not being cult. And please, use your porn time for other useful thing.
Jabador Jimador
May 30th, 2006
andolf, Sir
with all due respect, Gor is not a cult. as stated earlier this one does not live in a true Gorean relationship, why is it so hard for You to believe that one can actually choose to live in a way of life different from Your own?
and to the “americans should get out”… well this one supposes that some american should… but as this one has lived her entire life in europe, really wouldn’t know. Sir.
Slip
Jul 11th, 2006
It’s easy to pass judgement on something that you’ve never experienced or don’t understand. GOR is based off of novels one man wrote. GOR is considered a science fiction realm on another planet. While some of the cultures and soceities on Gor resemble places similiar to Earth, if you read the book, the main character Tarl Cabot was SAVING women in just about every book he was featured in. Like real life, Gor also has killings. In some country, there is even slavery. But you have to remember that it is a roleplay realm.
Some use Gorean Roleplay in SL as a way to manipulate people and lure them in to their real lives, and if your stupid enough to fall for that, you shouldn’t be on SL to begin with as there are scam artists everywhere you go now a days.
It’s simply roleplay…like an adult Dungeons and Dragons version with a twist. That’s it.
Miyki Nishizawa
Oct 23rd, 2006
I am also involved in the Gor sim in SL, I am also involved in Vampire the Masquerade LARP and L5R IN RL, it is fantasy. Just like Grand Theft Auto is Fantasy. Anybody who takes these things too seriously, and brings fantasy activities into a real life non-fantasy setting, should consider mental help. I don’t go around thinking that I’m a vampire, nor do I think that I am owned by anyone, that is fantasy, nothing else
Draco Zhukovksy
Oct 31st, 2006
It’s really sad to see closed-minded people pretend they know everything without even trying it to see what it’s really all about. BDSM, at its core, is about Control, but mostly about TRUST. The slave puts himself or herself under the control of the Dominant willingly. They are not forced. They are not coerced. They are not brainwashed. They do this of their own free will, and as such are always able to stop. In a true BDSM relationship, the submissive (slave) has the power. The slave agrees to do what the Master/Mistress wishes, trusting (there’s that word again) that their limits (things they will not do) will not be violated. If they are, the slave says their safe word, and the play ends immediately. Pity some intolerant individuals cannot see that.
BeeBee Guns
Nov 15th, 2006
I have a friend/lover in SL. She enticed me to do a little Gor RP with her. I was in totally control of her, and she loved it. I enjoyed it too, and she said that I had it in me. She convinced me to learn more about Gorean RP, so for 3 days I went to Gor RP sims, including Prison Moon and Port Kar. I met cool people, very helpful, I was eager to learn. I bought weapons, learned how to use them, did some combat. And I have to say… it’s dorky. The game play sucks, I mean, I have to fight for these women and the fighting isn’t even fun. And most of the guys are dorks, losers, I think that only a wimp in RL would need to me a master in RL or SL. It’s so stupid, the way they talk and act, I’d love to meet some of them in RL and snap them in front of a webcam and broadcast it in SL. Who would go through all this trouble to have a slave, or slaves. Mmmm, the mead is good girl… holy crap you’re dork dude. I have three, yes three, SL lovers who are cheating on their masters, I have to buy them nothing, fight no one, and they are with me, a free man. Don’t need that moron John whats his face to tell me about women, he’s an idiot, the books are so stupid and wrong. Just because something has been practiced for a long time doesn’t mean it’s not stupid. I’m a lucky man in RL, and I know and understand women, I can see why they would want to RP as slaves, women like to give themselves to someone they trust, and so I understand why my friend is now a slave. But the Masters, I just can’t do it, it sooooo stupid. To me, they are obviously wimpy dorks in RL who probably can’t get a girl. So, I had to tell my friend that I can’t be her master or anyone’s and I hope she has fun and let me know when she’s ready to start cheating. You masters are totally suckers. There’s nothing like having a women give herself to you, wanting you so bad that she does anything for you because of your art or music or thinking or humor or physical fitness, in RL or SL. And thanks for buying your slaves all the nice clothes and skins, I enjoy them very much ; ) …. dorks. Tal!
DJGecko Ondeko
Nov 16th, 2006
LOL, I’m sure much of what you say BeeBee Gun is true. My problem is that there is real slavery in the world, now, and in the past. People have been abducted and forced to be slaves, and we still have not healed, the decedents of the slaves nor the decedents of the masters. Slavery is hideous. Right now as I’m writing this, and as anyone is reading it, someone is forced into slavery some where in the world. Girls are forced into being prostitutes, ruined for life, right now. Slavery is unfortunately very much real, and for people who are in the luxury of the first world and free societies to role play slavery is a demonstration of a lack of empathy, it’s wrong, as wrong as pretending to be Nazis and rounding up Jews. The Goreans are either sick, or naive. I assume that most are just naive. Please stop it, think of the girl that was just kidnapped and raped, right now she is being raped, some where in the world, as you play slave and master, a little girl is being forced into slavery and rapped. Please wake up and take responsibility for your actions. Stop keeping alive a practice that is archaic and has done nothing but harm to humanity. Just because you enjoy it doesn’t make it right. Just because so many have been doing it for so long, doesn’t make it right. Wake up!
good little boy
Dec 2nd, 2006
Consensual D/s power exchance = sex
Nonconsensual RL power exchange = rape
OK?
36V5NG35FE
Jan 28th, 2007
Fuck, what did John do? When he started out it was a fun little sci fi book. The losers on the internet have ruined it for all of us. John Norman can’t even be contacted anymore. Can you imagine the stress this put him under?
despil
Jan 29th, 2007
I understand the problem with the slavery themed RPs.
I don’t play them, but if I take the argument, that if someone plays a slave, she/he must think about the poor girls/boys forced into slavery in the real world, then I ask you to think about the poor man/woman/people who are killed in the real world, when you play any combat oriented RP.
As DJGecko put it:
“My problem is that there is real killing in the world, now, and in the past. People have been killend and maimed, and we still have not healed, the decedents of the victims nor the decedents of the killers. Killing is hideous.”
Relax people. It’s a game. You don’t like it, you don’t play it.
You like it, you play it.
You could pick on all the kinky clubs promoting prostitution or the dealers selling drugs in the game.
In the end, you removed everything from SL, and you can play your real life.
Shawn Evans
Feb 21st, 2007
Ok, here’s the thing..while I am not “Gorean”, I do know a little about the whole thing…its based on a series of books..rather good books too if you actually chose to read them. In these books slaves are slaves because of some war between man and woman..man won and the gods that be, in order to keep the men from killing all women made them beautiful..It worked, but also made the men want to keep them for themselves..
Enter Slavery.
Now, this is just the books…i know, has no bearing on the World Wide Web Gor(I state WWW because its not just SL…it exists in there.com, worlds, IRC, Yahoo Chat, Web chats in general, Message boards..if its a medium where people can inter act..it exists) it still helps to inform people that it isnt something being created out of the minds of people who decide to play it…No more so than Star Wars RP…Or Star Trek(Which incidently supports slavery too…orion slave girls? Oh noes! lets slam Trek RP now! heh)
It is however Role Play, and in most aspects the ‘Slave’ has more power than the ‘Master’. If a slave decides “Hey…I don’t like this.” she(Or he..there are a number of male slaves) can contact their “Master” and say “Hey..im not having fun with this? Mind releasing me?” nine times out of 10..they will…since it is RP..and everyone is there to have fun..then you become a “Free woman”.
In the odd occurance that the “Master” says “Nope” well..you have two decisions….if you dont mind being on a gorean blacklist for breaking rules(Which isnt a big deal, especially if you aren’t happy with it, and in most cases you can talk to the admin and explain the situation and he will simply remove your ban) you can just take off a collar and leave….”But the collar is locked!” you say? So? all locked collars mean is the “Owner” recieves a message saying you took it off…whoopty doo!
If you want to continue RPing in Gor…simply RP an escape and flee to the safety of the northern woods…join a tribe of savage panther girls…ex-slaves who have armed themselves to the teeth with weapons, attitude and body oil! There you can beat up on the men, and enjoy RP and combat and all the things you never got to as a “Slave”.
Essentially…I dont see a problem with Gor…its a game..Do I play it? No…Would I consider it? Who knows? maybe at some point if and when my life isn’t so busy.
So..in respect to Gor..I think its fairly obvious that theres absolutely nothing wrong with it…Even BDSM circles aren’t too bad..even if it is a bit more than a game to them..its a lifestyle..However its their choice..and as adults they can make those choices…
HOWEVER!
When a slave/sub enters a club or any other fairly laggy place..it should be common decency to remove the collar..Collars are EXTREMELY scripted..they cause a lot of lag…so if yer going to a club, or Darklife..or anyplace laggy..remove your collar….as well as bling!
Thats my only complaint about Goreans and subs anyway..is many times they dont respect those around them.
Alex Fitzsimmons
Feb 21st, 2007
Auguste: At least with respect to D/s, Dan Savage is simply incorrect, and the fact that he wrote an article about his incorrect perceptions doesn’t automatically transform them into correct ones. The expression of a D/s relationship is no more inherently a sex act than the expression of a marriage is.
In other words, that quoted passage could be more or less be rewritten the following way, as it relates to D/s lifestyle relationships:
“But marriage isn’t ultimately who you are, it’s what you enjoy in bed—or in the dungeon, the playroom, the fetish club, etc. Here’s a rough rule of thumb: If you’re talking about something that gay, straight, and bisexual people can all do—fisting, snowballing, marriage—then it’s a sex act, not a sexual identity. However many times you wear a wedding ring, however many marriage licenses you have, however many nights your spouse sleeps in your bed, it’s still a sex act, and forcing your family [or, Auguste says, the general SL public] to watch you treat your husband or wife like a spouse compels them to participate in your sex life. And, again, that’s not okay.”
Moving on …
Thinkers, huh? I’ll have to check it out.
Prokofy, I’ll admit, I’m starting to get the unintentional humor some people find in you. You’re so far off of the mark with all of this, and so completely unaware of your own failings, that it’s actually kind of funny — cartoonish, really. I can see why some have suggested that you’re just playing a character, that “Prokofy” is just an invented caricature you play for laughs.
However, sad as it is, I believe you’re really sincere.
Jessica Holyoke
Feb 21st, 2007
I could have made this a confessionnal after the abusive experience that I had on Gor. But instead, I will make some very quick points.
There are many reasons why men and women are enticed by the roleplay on Gor. There is no reason to judge them. There are caring, thoughtful people that I have met that make Gor a satisfying experience for others. I would like to mention Jula and Hammersgaard as two places where I have met many good people.
There are also people out to overcome their own inadequacies and failures by exploiting and hurting others. Abusing and torturing slaves helps those who are powerless in real life feel power that they cannot experience themselves.
The slave trade is what keeps slavers motivated to find new slaves. In order to stop this, you cannot buy slaves. If you wish to free a slave, do not buy her, this simply encourages further abuse. What slavers are doing violates copyright laws and the illegality of their actions should be brought to their attention.
While this is a computer simulation, the avatars are extensions of ourselves. If someone hurts my avatar mentally or emotionally, they hurt me mentally or emotionally and vice versa.
Lastly, SL is a wide-ranging community, with many different view-points. Just as you do not want people coming to your lands and disrupting your experience, do not go onto their’s and be disruptive. If Optimus Prime can’t visit Gor, don’t expect that dragging your slave on a leash to a public meeting off-Gor is acceptable. RL relationships that involve BDSM do not have people going to the grocery store in chains.
Alex Fitzsimmons
Feb 21st, 2007
“The slave trade is what keeps slavers motivated to find new slaves. In order to stop this, you cannot buy slaves.”
Wise Dom/mes don’t anyway. Especially in an environment like SL, where the only truly binding chains are found in the heart of the slave, it takes a little more personal investment and time to find one who’s really serious.
“If you wish to free a slave, do not buy her, this simply encourages further abuse.”
Ohhh, buy me and free me! Yes, because I won’t just immediately go right back to Mistress and beg Her collar again anyway, assuming She’d sell in the first place, which She wouldn’t.
People really misunderstand what’s going on with these relationships … with the good ones, anyway.
“What slavers are doing violates copyright laws and the illegality of their actions should be brought to their attention.”
I don’t think “copyright” means what you think it means …
“If Optimus Prime can’t visit Gor, don’t expect that dragging your slave on a leash to a public meeting off-Gor is acceptable.”
Pfff. That whine isn’t just about Gor, it’s about all of D/s. You’d think to hear some talk that we’re dragged in on all fours, ball gag in place, and publicly whipped at public discussions or something.
*rolls eyes*
I do call Mistress only by Her first name, though. To me, Her first name is “Mistress.” Want to know how much I care about whether that’s a problem for someone?
Not even a LITTLE.
sparrowhawk perhaps
Feb 21st, 2007
i think that the rp in SL Gor is very narrow. there are lots of roles in the books and it seems like people keep repeating the same RP over and over and over and over. what i see lots is Tarl Cabot meets (insert female name). i haven’t met Hurtha the Poet, or Hup, or the Tatrix of Tharna, or tarn keepers, or slaves from the Nest, etc and so forth. Don’t see many tower (household) slaves, or field slaves, or kitchen slaves, either. Same thing with dances: don’t see many hate dances, or chain dances, or tile dances, or placatory dances…and the dances are supposed to tell stories, they’re not supposed to be lessons in the physiology of sexual arousal. THere are LOTS of roles. Read the books. Although “Captive of Gor” in the beginning is badly written, the others, like “Assassin of Gor” are very entertaining.
As for the D/s: nobody gets dragged into it, nobody stays if they don’t want to. The US may be protofascist, but D/s is not.
Jessica Holyoke
Feb 21st, 2007
Wow, Alex has so many things wrong.
First, there are people that will go out and offer to buy Gorean slaves in order to free them. I have met and talked to them personally. By offering to help slaves by buying and freeing them, the slave trade continues.
Second, I am not calling into question true Dom/me relationships. I am calling into question the practice of slavers who take in people, give them notecards on Gor and then sell the trained slaves to others for money. This also relates back to the first point on buying slaves and freeing them. Say a slave goes to a slaver and then finds their experience an unhappy one. They want out. They find someone who will buy them and free them. How does this effect the slaver? He still has made a profit. He hasn’t lost anything. In fact, if he makes life miserable for a slave and they beg for someone else to buy and free them, then the slaver gets off easier than if he took the time to train someone and sell them off himself.
Third, copyright means exactly how I use it. Every nadu, every silk, every tarn created is based off of the John Norman books. It doesn’t belong to the slavers or the roleplayers. It belongs to John Norman. You may have missed out on some of the arguments under the Gorean Copyright article. What you may not know is that what the slavers are doing is creating a derivative infringing use. A slaver teachs a slave everything about Gor, (and this is specific to Goreans, not D/s), the poses, how to act, how to address free, how to serve food, how that food is prepared. The specifics of these actions come from the books of Gor. Now, the slaver sells his trained slave to someone else. The slaver has made money teaching slaves the basics of Gor. The new owner has paid for someone to roleplay Gor with him. The natue of this use is commercial, there is money received from the slave being sold. The nature of the infringement is similar to having an interactive play being presented. These two factors are half of the analysis of what is a derivative infringing use of someone else’s copyright.
Fourth, if we are talking about the Optimus comment, lets be clear. Gorean sims do not allow non-human avatars. I can understand that. It can take them out of their headspace of how they want to live. Furries, aliens and nekos are all banned from Gorean sims. But consideration works both ways. Some people do not want to see women kneeling on leashes. If people don’t want to see Gorean actions, they don’t go to Gor. But why should they be confronted by it in other aspects of SL? And that is exactly what was said prior in this forum, public meetings with people on leashes.
Fifth, I am very happy for you that you found someone that you want to be with and that you are in a fulfilling relationship. What I was writting about was not a D/s relationship where there is trust and understanding on both sides. I was writing about situations where a slaver seeks to exploit a slave. Ask yourself this Alex, if you were truly unhappy with your relationship with your Mistress or if you had doubts about your relationship and needed guidance, and you told her these doubts, would she answer “I don’t care” or “I am going to sell you to whomever I see fit”?
To sparrowhawk, I wasn’t referring to safe, sane, consenual D/s. I was referring specifically to Gor and the actions of certain members that profit from the training and sale of slaves. I was referring to slavers that seek to be cruel simply because they can. I used to work in SL with a number of women that found satisfying D/s relationshps with others. There is no judgement passed on those relationships. The people involved were very happy together. But no one should support the non-consentual exploitation of others.
And before anyone says I don’t understand D/s or Gor, not only have I explored D/s for 23 years, but I made a conscious effort to seek out and experience Gor in SL by talking to people and throwing myself into the role play and interacting with others as a kajira. These are not off-the-cuff comments, but words of experience.
Alex Fitzsimmons
Feb 21st, 2007
“First, there are people that will go out and offer to buy Gorean slaves in order to free them. I have met and talked to them personally. By offering to help slaves by buying and freeing them, the slave trade continues.”
Which is just silly. Especially here in SL, where if you’re really that unhappy, you can simply walk. Obviously if we’re staying with them, we’re either happy where we are or somehow too braindead to understand what’s going on.
“Third, copyright means exactly how I use it.”
I’m sorry; are you a lawyer? If not, I’ll have to disregard all of what you’ve just said. Furthermore, until and unless you inform me of your status as a lawyer who practices in the appropriate specialty, I’m going to go along with what I already know about other forms of roleplay and cosplay and assume there’s probably a good reason why they all have their fun unmolested.
As for the rest, though, point made. But again, don’t you think that anyone who’s staying put might be doing so because she really wants to? Remembering again that this is SL, and nobody can actually force us into anything here, even if we’d like to be able to grant them that power?
Artemis Fate
Feb 22nd, 2007
“But again, don’t you think that anyone who’s staying put might be doing so because she really wants to?”
I just want to mention something really quick, because I really don’t like this “Well they’re not leaving so they must want to stay” logic that is so often used. Do you think that’d apply to a woman in a real abusive relationship? Sometimes when women are in abusive relationships, instead of reasonably packing up and leaving, they stay and keep coming back. That doesn’t necessarily mean they want to stay, it just means there’s a whole lot of psychological factors involved that aren’t so clear on the surface. They call it battered woman syndrome, look it up.
Now i’m not necessarily saying that all slaves are affected with Battered Woman Syndrome (though I wouldn’t cross it out for some) i’m just saying that “They’re not leaving so therefore they must like it” isn’t necessarily true, and that there’s often complex psychological reasons for a person to stay.
That’s just my two cents, you can put it in the jar.
Alex Fitzsimmons
Feb 22nd, 2007
“I just want to mention something really quick, because I really don’t like this “Well they’re not leaving so they must want to stay” logic that is so often used. Do you think that’d apply to a woman in a real abusive relationship? Sometimes when women are in abusive relationships, instead of reasonably packing up and leaving, they stay and keep coming back. That doesn’t necessarily mean they want to stay, it just means there’s a whole lot of psychological factors involved that aren’t so clear on the surface. They call it battered woman syndrome, look it up.”
Hey … I was IN an abusive (emotionally) relationship.
You’re right … to a point. But at least in my case, it wasn’t just that. It was hard to leave, as much as anything, because where would I go?
Okay, yes … an abuser can twist things, even make you begin to doubt what should be obvious reality. But that happens in a very controlled environment where you’re cut off from saner, more detached perspectives. In SL, all you have to do is log off. You can even log an alt or stop allowing yourself to be see online, or just mute the person! And others who can help you get yourself back together and get away are only a simple IM away.
It’s not the same as a RL abusive situation. Not the same at ALL.
Seola Sassoon
Feb 22nd, 2007
Alex, you are absolutely correct.
Comparing an RL abuse situation to a slave situation in SL is quite umm… unrealistic.
Many women in abusive RL relationships, regardless of physical or emotional, most often have nowhere else to go, no one to turn to, and have a touch too much pride to run and ask for help from women’s shelters.
RL abusers also play the worst head games in the sense of making that person feel unwanted by anyone else, not good enough for anyone else and feel ‘lucky’ the abuser has taken them in and ‘loves’ them.
It’s also a fact that no one starts out hitting or playing the mind games right away. It’s a trickle through time. A few words here and there, and then a few more, then a few more. They intercept every aspect of life, from work, to kids, to sex, to dishes, etc.
On SL, an emotional abuser doesn’t tell you how to raise your kids, embarrass you in front of your family and friends, stalk you at work, scream at you while you’re doing the dishes, etc. (And if they have the RL info to do that and do it in RL, then it’s not an SL relationship, it’s RL.)
If someone pisses you off in SL, you can leave, log off, whatever. Sure, people stalk in SL, but even now it’s quite a bit harder to do that. If you wanna be free, you can walk away. You don’t have to worry about what will happen to the kids, the house, money, etc.
Jessica Holyoke
Feb 22nd, 2007
Alex, you’re right, I’m not a lawyer. I’m a third year law student who focuses on Copyright and Trademarks. Because I haven’t taken the bar exam yet, which I will in July, I am not a lawyer.
And you are also right about your actions in regard to your roleplay. I’m not a lawyer. I can’t advise you on what to do or not do. If you want to talk to a licensed attorney, you can. But that doesn’t change the facts of what I’m saying. You can’t make money off of someone else’s copyright. If you make authentic realistic Wonder Woman costumes, you can’t sell them to others. But you can make and use your own Wonder Woman costume.
I’m also not in a position to enforce copyrights. John Norman’s copyright agent has been informed about the slave trade, and the agent doesn’t want to stop it at this time. Whether or not Norman will put a stop to other fan works or SL roleplay is another issue and another thread in the SL Herald.
Keep in mind, SL has copyright and trademark infringement everywhere. From my gucci bag, to my Flyers jersey to my Snoopy PJ’s, they all infringe somebody else trademark or copyright.
Panda
Feb 22nd, 2007
Jessica, I’m pretty sure silks and poses were in use many MANY years before John got “inspired” by them (It’s not a new thing, by far). There’s quite a few thousand people who’d like to have a word with him if he’d go after that.
Artemis Fate
Feb 22nd, 2007
I was more stating that there’s much more to a decision of “should I leave?” then just how to press the teleport button, not so much that every gorean slave had battered woman syndrome. Though that whole “most often have nowhere else to go, no one to turn to” sounds quite a bit like the lifestyle gorean’s technique and tendancy to cut a new slave out of whatever community they were in before, and start demanding she channel IMs through her master, which starts to alienate and cut off friends. After a while all she has left are goreans, and by then “should I leave?” becomes much much more complex.
To quote another ex-gorean “Being a person who recently left Goreans roleplays it is really hard to fully get out of it. When I left the “Master” said this, “But out there you’re not my slave.” which was a hidden threat that if I left and stopped being his slave we couldn’t be friends. It traps you inside of the idea that if you leave, things won’t go right. … You commonly lose most of your friends that are “true” AKA addicted Goreans.”
Anyway, things like Battered Woman syndrome are much more psychological than physical, and I think it’s pretty clear that psychological harm can be derived out of Second Life, especially from relationships, and even more so from abusive relationships like gorean ones (and just because it’s consensual, doesn’t mean it’s not abusive). I don’t think psychological damage should be ruled out immediately just because of the concept that Second Life isn’t real and thus can’t hurt anyone, the environment may not be real, but the people sure are, and that’s all you need to screw with someone’s head.
SLanon
Feb 22nd, 2007
Maybe if a few of these Masters would get off their fat lazy asses in the real world and get a job instead of playing out their control issues in a game they would find a few women that would love to control their asses on a daily basis or maybe it is just the small dick syndrome?
Secondlife is such a huge excuse for so many freaks it is ridiculous!
Alex Fitzsimmons
Feb 22nd, 2007
“Alex, you’re right, I’m not a lawyer. I’m a third year law student who focuses on Copyright and Trademarks. Because I haven’t taken the bar exam yet, which I will in July, I am not a lawyer.”
No, but if you’re telling the truth, you’re not exactly a layperson, either.
“If you make authentic realistic Wonder Woman costumes, you can’t sell them to others. But you can make and use your own Wonder Woman costume.”
Okay, unless I’m missing something here, didn’t you just knock down your own argument about people infringing on copyright merely by roleplaying Gor? … unless of course there’s someone out there who’s actually charging for lessons on Gorean roleplay or something like that that could be shown to have come directly from the books and nowhere else, I suppose. That would be news to me.
Otherwise, isn’t it just a case of making your own Wonder Woman costume, to use your analogy?
“Though that whole “most often have nowhere else to go, no one to turn to” sounds quite a bit like the lifestyle gorean’s technique and tendancy to cut a new slave out of whatever community they were in before, and start demanding she channel IMs through her master, which starts to alienate and cut off friends.”
That’s a very misleading factual error, as only some do that, and even not very many as far as I’ve seen. Some husbands beat their wives, too, so shall we declare that husbands as a whole have a “technique and tendency” to beat their wives?
“Anyway, things like Battered Woman syndrome are much more psychological than physical, and I think it’s pretty clear that psychological harm can be derived out of Second Life, especially from relationships, and even more so from abusive relationships like gorean ones (and just because it’s consensual, doesn’t mean it’s not abusive).”
It’s also pretty clear that you’ve never personally been through it, because if you had, you’d know that the way it happens in real life makes it much, much, MUCH more difficult than anything that could happen in SL.
Jessica Holyoke
Feb 22nd, 2007
Alex,
I do have to be clear that I am not a lawyer yet for legal and ethical reasons. I have received training in the law and how to look at the situation I have described.
And again, when I say derivative infringing use, I refer directly to the Gorean slave trade, the buying and selling of others. If you look at the Gorean copyright thread in the SL herald, there are some questions on whether a text-based roleplay is similar to fan fiction. But that’s not what I’m bringing up as a derivative infringing use. I can point to at least two places in SL Gor that take in slave girls, train them on the details of the books and then sell them to other Gor roleplayers. Its not “just” roleplay, its the money exchanged for it.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 22nd, 2007
A few thoughts here, in reply to:
>these are complex matters. they must be lived. Posted by: humdog | February 21, 2006 at 06:20 PM <
I have no comments on Gor itself, pro or con. But I do know one thing: I don’t have to dive into a pile of garbage to recognize the smell. I don’t have to eat rotten food to know it’s rotten. At the same time, one does not have to be an sculptor to enjoy sculpture.
I am not saying that Gor is garbage, nor that it is rotten. I am saying that people are generally able to research or examine an issue without wallowing knee-deep in it. One does not have to “live” an experience to draw valid conclusions. Some are offended by Gor due to the very concept of one human exercising complete control over another (whether that control is allowed by free will or not). The very idea offends them.
Goreans should not be surprised– nor offended– that this is the case. Disapproval by others is part of the role they accept when they take on the guise of Gor. Just as some people hate hate Vampires and some people hate Mafia and some people hate club dancers– there are going to be elements that find the Gorean brand of role play highly offensive. If a Gorean takes offense at that– maybe that Gorean isn’t 100% comfortable with the role himself. If he was, he’d know a true Gorean Master answers to no one. And a slave would not take offense at the opinions of others– so long as he/she had the approval of his/her master. (Or am I wrong here? I don’t believe I’m mistaken).
Thus the point: one doesn’t have to live it to understand it. And in understanding– neither is one required to approve of such… and may openly disapprove if such a concept is found offensive enough.
I don’t think a society defined as the author defined the Gor books is completely above reproach, no matter how much its fans may approve of it. The reality of that fact should be pretty apparent, and public disapproval of such of no great shock.
Alex Fitzsimmons
Feb 22nd, 2007
“And again, when I say derivative infringing use, I refer directly to the Gorean slave trade, the buying and selling of others. If you look at the Gorean copyright thread in the SL herald, there are some questions on whether a text-based roleplay is similar to fan fiction. But that’s not what I’m bringing up as a derivative infringing use. I can point to at least two places in SL Gor that take in slave girls, train them on the details of the books and then sell them to other Gor roleplayers. Its not “just” roleplay, its the money exchanged for it.”
Okay. Wait. I’m really confused here, because it seems to me that there are a ton of things you can teach a person. For example: right now, Mistress and I are going over The Hagakure together, discussing it as we do. Now let’s just say reality suddenly got turned on its ear, and She suddenly had this urge to sell me.
Are you saying She would be infringing on the translator’s copyright because she happened to guide me in studying the ideas presented in that book and incorporating them into the way I conduct myself? Because it sounds to me, speaking admittedly as someone who’s neither lawyer nor law student, that if a case such as you describe could be made, then a case could be made for infringement based on anything the slave was EVER taught by the former owner.
“I am saying that people are generally able to research or examine an issue without wallowing knee-deep in it.”
Alexander Pope once said, “A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again.”
I recommend thinking well on the meaning of that as it applies here.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 22nd, 2007
A thought on that Alex: does copyright law extend to role playing? No, it does not. In order for copyright law to apply, one of three things must be present:
1) It must deprive the author of potential profit
2) It must use the author’s text or “intellectual property” in a manner competitive with or against the author’s intended purpose in a publication format.
3) It must copy an unreasonable amount of the author’s original text (this is generally considered at 1000 words, one page or an entire story, whichever is less).
Since role play is a creative endeavor, the only thing that copyright could apply to would be rules that might be written. Those rules could be considered to apply to guidelines 1 and 2 both. But since basic role play applies to none of the above 3 rules, copyright law doesn’t even enter into the picture.
But if there are written rules and those rules are definitely associated with Gor, yup, that could be infringement with a capital I.
Now in Elf Clan, we role played “loosely based” on Tolkein’s Lord of the Rings. We gave him credit for the basic basic Elven concepts– but diverged from there as the group required. We were not a “Lord of the Rings” or “Tolkein” group… we just pointed to his works as a basis of character concept. That’s a bit different from basing an entire sim on Lord of the Rings down to the nitty gritty detail. But even if we had– I seriously doubt we would have experienced any problems. Most authors recognize fan creations for what they are– non-invasive supportive elements.
Jessica Holyoke
Feb 23rd, 2007
Alex, what you are citing is not exactly what I’ve been taking about.
First, the Hagakure is in the public domain, if you mean In the Shadow of Leaves. Second, if the Hagakure wasn’t in the public domain, it would not be the sole basis of your training. Third, if it was the sole basis of your training, then a person wishing to purchase you would need to do so solely because of your Hagakure training and expecting you to exclusively base your actions on your training in order to be infringing.
Put another way, by being a slave, are you putting on a constant re-enactment of a book for which someone paid money for? That’s what Gorean slaves do. They consistently act based on the guidelines found in the books.
Panda
Feb 23rd, 2007
“1) It must deprive the author of potential profit”
Jessica, I doubt John is in the slave-trade, but correct me if I’m wrong..
Jessica Holyoke
Feb 24th, 2007
Panda, that was two different people making an analysis, but your point is taken. John is not involved with the slave trade, but he could have an SL sim where people can pay to partake in Gor. The slave trade is circumventing his ability to do that, by providing a way for people to pay money to partake in Gor. John has an absolute right to make money off of any derivative works. That’s where the infringement comes in.
Panda
Feb 24th, 2007
That’s also where other people’s rights to make money off THEIR derivative works come in, including ones by created by John. To put it to a point: Slave traders and silk makers throughout history are coming to take on John for creating works derivative of their copyright.
The point of this is that John didn’t invent silks, nor did he invent slavery, so he has no claim to any of those.
Max Delacrois
May 2nd, 2007
After reading all this, and having RPed in Gor, i will point out this: 99% of gorieans on SL, the web, whatever, are Rpers. I think this was said earrlier, but i wanted to clarify that as a rule, I make sure that the slaves, free and otherwise understand this: There is no Gor. There is no Counter earth. No tarns over your head, no panther girls in the wooods. Its Role Play.
On the matter of slaves, ive Rped a slaver of Gor, of the City Tarnburg and a few other places for short times. Ive seen many diffrent takes on slaves and their takes on being one. Some are there for the sex, which i discourage, since sex in SL is over rated. Some are there for the Roleplay, which I encouraged, because thats what most are there for. Some thought of themselves slaves in RL, which I stayed away from, and steered their focus their towards RP. What you do in RL is your bisness, if being chained on a leash, forced to Nadu or whatever cranks your boat, then by all means, go for it. Gor is ment to be a mature RP on SL, nothing more. If someone chooses to take their relationship RL with a Master, then its not my place to judge. and if a slave feels that it isnt for them, we dont ban or blacklist them. We simply ask they let us know, and then suggest what they can do to change it. Some wernt happy RPing a slave, so theyd be freed, usualy via some contrived raid or agreement. Some simply didnt like the setting, and wanted to leave Gor RP, we didnt hassle them, nor threaten, or any of these things that Gor is so infamous for. We simply said ‘Twas fun, keep in touch, and see ya later’ There cant be slavery, true slavey, in Sl, because there are things like Teleporting and simply logging off. Its simply a click away. Some cry that wed ‘condition’ the girls into slaves..nothing of the sort. I remember the head girl of Tarnburg, A miss Dezi, practically ran the place, and didnt hesitate to let you know if you were being a jack ass. Same goes for her sisters, Stormie and others I cant remember. As for combat, yea, it was dorkey. But then again, so what? its a game. Have fun, and if your not, and ill tell this to any gorian slave I see, then why the hell are you there? there are tons of games, online, offline, and RL, that you could be doing.
Dont now where I was going with that rant, but thats my experience with it.
P.S. As for my girls going to events in their silks and collars, i never forced them, they never complained, and we didnt hear a peep from club managers, security or what not. prehaps i go to wild parties, I dunno.
kora parker
May 22nd, 2007
slavery is not about abuse . . . . . . slavery is about acceptance. slavery is not about proving anything . . . . . . slavery is about being real.
slavery is not about contempt . . . . . . slavery is about respect. slavery is not about how you look . . . . . .
slavery is about how much you care.
slavery is not about denying yourself . . . . . . slavery is about being open. slavery is not about bondage . . . . . . slavery is about freeing your spirit.
slavery is not about punishment . . . . . . slavery is about discipline. slavery is not about being unable to escape . . . . . . slavery is about being committed.
slavery is not about submission . . . . . . slavery is about obedience. slavery is not about fear . . . . . . slavery is about trust.
slavery is not about sex . . . . . . slavery is about love. slavery is not about pleasure . . . . . . slavery is about happiness
slavery is not about suffering . . . . . . slavery is about service slavery is not about humiliation . . . . . . slavery is about humility.
slavery is not about pain . . . . . . slavery is about being present. slavery is not about being used . . . . . . slavery is about being of use.
slavery is not about control . . . . . . slavery is about letting go. slavery is not about what is done to you . . . . . . slavery is about what you do for others.
slavery is not about abuse . . . . . . slavery is about acceptance. slavery is not about proving anything . . . . . . slavery is about being real.
slavery is not about contempt . . . . . . slavery is about respect. slavery is not about how you look . . . . . .
slavery is about how much you care.
slavery is not about denying yourself . . . . . . slavery is about being open. slavery is not about bondage . . . . . . slavery is about freeing your spirit.
slavery is not about punishment . . . . . . slavery is about discipline. ………………
Reg Mannonen
Jun 9th, 2007
My SL partner has asked me to explore the gor / D/s thing with her. At first i was taken aback, she is a very strong willed person, very independent and strong, it was a surprise to me to find that she might enjoy such a game. I never imagined such a request would come from her.
Since i’ve been curious about the Gor RP anyway, having only heard the outrageous rumors such as you’ve seen above and deciding instead to actually learn about something before i condemn it, I decided to give it a go.
It will never become my primary activity in SL and would never be appropriate in RL, but for a few hours a week, it may turn out to be a fun way to explore something different. AFter all, that’s why we are all in SL anyway, if SL is just RL in cartoon form, then what’s the point?
BUT, i do have to laugh at some of the reasonings many have for condeming such play, all while ignoring the damage their own RP might cause (using their own rational that exploration of something wrong in SL RP translates to support in RL). Consider this:
How many young girls in RL suffer from anorexia, bulemia, low self esteem and other such problems? Could it be more than are enslaved? I’ll bet it is.
Well then, we must do something about that. If you wear an attractive avatar, you are guilty of contributing to the horror that bulimia, anorexia and low self esteem bring to young women every day.
You too encourage an enslavement of sorts, an enslavement to an unreal expectation of what is “beautiful” or “attractive”, an enslavement that affect millions of young women, and men, in america and around the world, and causes untold amounts of suffering.
Wearing a barbie avatar means you support bulemia? Wearing a barbie avatar means you actually look like that in RL and that you believe all people should look like that? Are you ashamed of yourself, a “dork” or “loser” with no life who must RP barbie in SL to feel superiour since RL avatars do not offer you the admiration and respect you get in life from your less than perfect self?
Where is your fat avi? Where are all the normal looking people? How can someone in a Barbie or Ken avatar point to the GOR RPers and scream “crime! evil! wicked! disgusting! harmful!!” and ignore the horrors that such portrayals of perfection may cause to the psychological health of millions?
Before you start spouting off that GOR rpers support slavery or brutality in RL, perhaps you should reexamine your own RP in SL. Because even if you just have a mansion, a yacht and go to clubs, you are role playing. Unless you are one of the lucky one in a thousand who actually has such things in RL.
And to the guy who is proud of his sexual prowess, the guy who has four adulteresses in his bed, the sick pervert who seems to be in SL for sex and sex alone. How dare you, sir, point your finger at anyone. You are the dork, you are the loser, you are the one who needs help. YOU sir, are the one who is disgusting to me.
Adultery causes the most pain and suffering in RL of anything. To support such dishonesty and betrayal with your obvious pride shows that i should discount you as a sex freak, one who finds GOR threatening because it doesn’t support your “playboy” RPing. If you could really get four women to cheat on their spouses with you in RL, i doubt you’d find the time to SL at all. Examine your own pot sir, before calling the kettle black.
Lucius
Jun 26th, 2007
Where do I even begin? Perhaps with how incredibly uninformed this entire article is. I found your comparison to a series of books that began in 1967 with Tarnsman of Gor to the Taliban and articles that boast dates 38 years after the first book of the series was published. What I absolutly love about the Gor hating rubish I see posted so frequently on the internet is that just as in your case is laughable and completely devoid of anything factual but rather based on a limited understanding from a narrow minded indivdiual that is so caught up on their own bias they can’t see the forest for the trees.
I find it intresting that you said “No one here is silly enough to wonder why so many apparently well-heeled and apparently bored middle class Western European and American wives, mothers, students, and career women are willing to sign up and pay the cost of entry so that other well-heeled and apparently bored middle class men (and women) can roleplay social and sexual crimes against women in this very unusual and intriguing manner.” What I find amusing about that remark is that it is again obviously uninformed I know many many people in several Gorean communites from all walks of life ranging in ages from 19-67. I’m curious did you take a poll before you made such broadly derogatory statement or was this again a product of your apparent bias against Gorean roleplay?
Do you find it broadly offensive that my slave in SL kneels to me? If you do there is a simple solution to your issue. Don’t go to Gorean sims. I don’t log into SL everyday considering what I can do to make your experience better there or somehow live up to your pseudo Judeao-Christian idea of morality. I log into SL because I do many things I enjoy there including roleplay.
(role-play (rlpl)
v. role-·played, role-·play·ing, role-·plays
To assume deliberately the part or role of; act out.
n.
Role-playing..
Taken from Dictionary.com.
Do note it says deliberatly as in consensual. No one is being forced to be a slave in SL, it’s rather impossible to do that. If I could find a way to force a person to do something in SL the first and foremost thing on the agenda would be to force people to stop with their ignorant predjudice.
At any rate, please don’t bother responding to this post because I really have nothing more to say on the matter. I’m done now. kthxby
Maggie Lock
Nov 12th, 2007
Ummmm folks? It’s a game. Sorry that the kids of SL is getting into the act but, if the parents, yes the parents , would moniter their kids, the kids would not be doing this. It is NOT the responsibility of Second Life OR it’s members to moniter someone else’s kids, if it was my responsibility I want the damn tax break too.
As for the ko’lar…… if you dont like it, then get out. Dont look, dont stay, dont interact. And yes it is sad that there is slavery going on in other countries, but why the hell are you comparing it to …yes… A GAME? If you want to make a difference get the hell over to where the real stuff is happening and do something instead of spending your time COMPLAINING about how someone else plays their game, YES! THE KEY WORD IS GAME !!!!
NO ONE is telling you how to play your game, nor is anyone complaining how you play your game. So why the hell spend time COMPLAINING about how someone else plays their game?
Or, are you just jealous and dont have the nads to play gor?
D.k. Knight
Oct 7th, 2009
Look!
I get it you are a lonely disgusting man with nothing to offer to society than to post rights violating pictures
of someones mother/sister that do matter except for your sick pleasure profit You are no worse than sex offenders who will go to yur site since you are one of them now would you want to look yur mother/sisters hot naked body as a sex slave for everyone to look at and post publicly you
deserve no women as you are violating rights of women like your mother/sister
Who hate you and
site