The Alphaville Herald

18 Responses to “Elf King Wayfinder Leaves Second Life, Elf Clan Disbands. IBM Chairman Palmisano to Address Troops in Forbidden City.”

1. Ymerce
   

   Nov 14th, 2006
   

   Wat gaat er mis met Second Life?

   Met alle belangstelling van buiten is het steeds interessanter om de insiders te volgen voor wat betreft de onwtikkeling van Second Life. Steeds meer signalen wijzen erop dat er iets fundamenteel fout gaat. Lees dit interview bijvoorbeeld.
   I mea…
2. 

   Nacon
   

   Nov 14th, 2006
   

   Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

   Can’t get LOTR/RPG/WoW stuff out of your head? Ha ha ha! At lease it’s healthy to see one of them actually had to go do Real Life stuff.

   Maybe IBM will start seeing some ghost of old members, asking where they can get more mana to bring themselves back to life? Silly.
3. 

   Artemis Fate
   

   Nov 14th, 2006
   

   “It’s like the end of LOTR”

   Heeeeeey…. You stole my comment XD

   I still don’t see how you connect a leader of an elf group leaving to “Corporations are killing originality in SL”
4. 

   Heather
   

   Nov 14th, 2006
   

   You know I have watched him inflate these figures over a 6 month period. This guy is a joke and it is a shame that you all have suported his continued attempt to grief in such a dishonorable fashion. You are a spiteful tiny little man Way.
5. 

   Esthero
   

   Nov 14th, 2006
   

   As for that officer that stole all those lindens? I use to be Elf Clan and donated TONS of Lindens to that group that I loved… Each donation box (which there were several all around) was owned by you Wayfinder and DID NOT have any way to audit where the money went. So I ask… How much of your money came from the things you sold and how much from donations? Please look at yourself before pointing fingers at others.
6. 

   Eye Opener
   

   Nov 14th, 2006
   

   I would be interested to know as I am sure most people that have been sucked into this Drama. ElvenMyst sold for 1,250$, or so I have been told. Since this sim was given freely to Wayfinder and he insists that it was for Elf Clan, how much of that money will Elf Clan members receive? Or does this property thing only count when it doesn’t effect Way’s pockets? After all this so called “rogue” officer had the audacity to retain ownership of a sim that elf clan donations paid a small amount of and which she paid more then half the cost, not to mention covering tier till it became self supportive. This is what he cries foul over. Oh but then he also thinks that him putting time into it should count as payment…. as though his time has more worth then the rest of us… Arrogant. Any way I’m sure we will all sit quietly and wait to see if he puts his money where his mouth is. So Way, will you walk the walk or just talk the talk?
7. 

   Rodney
   

   Nov 14th, 2006
   

   Way was most dis-Honorable being In Sl, hes lying through his teeth, he alone destroyed the elfclan, by thinking he was and is the clan, when it was the people who joined… Way was is a fanatic U know he can prove he is right with his 20 page document that took 2 weeks to write, LOL, Way has been all Ego, an dthe only person I had to Mute as he tryed to sway me to hes side…
   Cannot belieave he can fabricate this garbage and people believe him
8. 

   Wayfinder Wishbringer
   

   Dec 1st, 2006
   

   I see the grossly uninformed are still in plentiful supply.

   Artemis, you at least had the decency to post your user name with your comment.. which is more than I can say for the others. But as far as “inflating” figures… those figures are available for anyone to see, to examine, to analyze. Ignoring the facts doesn’t change the facts. The figures quoted in this article are discussed in exacting detail at http://elfclan.net in the article, “Is Second Life Successful?”. If you have cause to doubt these statements, feel free to examine the stats yourself. You can call names all you wish … but I think the facts speak a little more loudly. The only spite shown thus far has been from those calling the names.

   Baseless and uninformed accusations, propaganda and emotionalistic politics are not uncommon on Second Life. There seems to be no end of those willing to jump on the drama wagon.

   “Esthero” made a statement regarding the disposal of ElvenMyst. The question was posed, “how much of that money will Elf Clan members receive?” I might ask in return: Why should Elf Clan members receive payment for the sale of a privately-owned sim?

   As you recognized in your post, ElvenMyst was GIVEN to me as a personal gift by a close friend. That friend stated several times that I could do with it whatever I wished, including “sell it and take a vacation if you want”. When I decided to leave Second Life and the Elf Clan Counsel unanimously decided to close down the group… ElvenMyst was sold, by its owner, me. That sale did not involve the group in any manner and there is certainly no reason to expect that proceeds from that sale would be disbursed among some 659 members of the group, each of whom had different time involvement and participation in the group. Be reasonable.

   In contrast, the original three Elven sims were paid for through extensive group donations and a land group rental agreement. Those sims were organized and designed by me as part of that Land Group arrangement. I spent countless hours designing and managing those sims; Forcythia had very little time or the skills to do so. Those sims were NOT her personal property; they were paid for in full by Elf Clan funding. Any initial investment that she made was paid in full, as per our land group agreement. Those were GROUP sims. Her refusal to account for group donations when required, and her insistance that those sims were her personal property (as well as many other abuses of office) were why she was removed from office– regardless of whatever propaganda and misinformation has been circulated to the contrary.

   It is an unfortunate fact that no matter how many people invest in lands, Linden Lab recognizes only one owner. This has resulted in more than one instance of a person swiping group-purchased lands. Such has long been a major contention between Linden Lab and its customers and is a well-known issue. This isn’t the first time such has happened– and so long as this policy continues– it won’t be the last.

   It might stand to reason that an officer who was forcibly removed from office and the people who supported her might not be all that forthcoming regarding the facts of the issue. The fact that those people were an very small minority of Elf Clan might be considered in such issues, as well as the fact that although down to one sim– Elf Clan continued to prosper and achieved a larger membership than our entire history and continued to have more influence on the SL platform than those who opposed us. We were griefed repeatedly by her group. They circulated falsified documents. They attacked our members. Elf Clan did not return such activities. Cry “dishonor” all you wish; honor is proved by action.

   So no, Elf Clan members in general did not support her activities. As a good friend pointed out to me: the vast majority of our members proved that honor and loyalty were more than spoken words. Elf Clan became more active and functional than it had ever been– and a great deal of the stab-in-the back drama disappeared along with the people that proved disloyal to the group.

   ElvenMyst sim did not belong to Elf Clan– it belonged to me. Members were informed from the beginning that I was leasing the sim to the group (unlike the original sims, in which rental payments were used to pay off initial investments and purchase additional sims). When I left Second Life– it was my right to sell the sim and keep the proceeds from that sale– which is exactly what I did.

   Does that clear things up? Please leave baseless accusations at the door.

   As for the opinion that time invested by people on Second Life has no real or monetary value… wake up to the real world. Money is not the only investment made in a business venture.

   Regarding the statement: “not to mention covering tier till it became self supportive.” I have heard Forcythia make this claim before. It is bogus. Fact: ElvenGlen was self-supportive from the very first day it opened and continued to be so from that point onward. If you were told differently, you were told wrong. We purchased the sim in April of 2005. We opened the sim May 1… before the first tier payment came due. HALF the sim was rented out before we even opened the sim, and much of that was MERCHANT rentals, which are bread and butter on Second Life. This meant that tier was fully paid– plus some extra– from the very first day the sim opened. So I might suggest a little less gullability and a little more examination of facts before making accusations. You have no knowledge as to how those sims were set up, how they were managed, or the details of what happened that forced me to remove Forcythia from office. Before making accusations, it’s best to have your facts straight.

   Some people are very good at politics. Some are very charismatic and can tell a believable and plausible story. That doesn’t make the story truthful. Without facts, to believe such things is to open oneself up to being manipulated.

   This was the whole point of these issues “Esthero”… people swallowing propaganda hook, line and sinker and having no clue as to what actually happened behind the scenes. Most Elf Clan members were totally unaware of how Elf Clan was managed. But an outspoken and emotional minority were quick to jump on the drama bandwagon when an officer had to be removed from the group for abuse of office– and they never even stopped to ask WHY that officer was removed from the group. To expect an ousted officer and her business partner to relate an unbiased account in such matters would seem unwise.

   Regarding “Eye Opener”s somewhat emotionalistic comment: someone who hides behind a fake name while calling another dishonorable can’t really be taken all that seriously. I prefer to stick to the facts.

   Lack of information is a bad thing. This was one of the major problems in the drama involved in these matters– too many people taking sides and making decisions based on zero background information. Rather than following a course of basic honor, they followed the course of gullability and swallowed whatever they were told. Sorry that’s the case. There’s one born every minute.

   These things of course, have nothing to do with why I left SL or why the Elf Clan Counsel unanimously decided to cease support of the SL platform. These things happened for one basic, simple reason: Linden Lab was aware of these issues and decided to take no action in the matter. That was their right of decision… just as it was our right to decide to to stop supporting a company that absolved itself of unethical activity on their board. Just that simple. There ARE alternatives to spending ones time, efforts and significant monetary investments. I estimate that Elf Clan spent some US$12,000+ with Linden Lab over the past two years. That investment was wasted. There will be no further such.

   There are always people who are ready to cast blame and opinions without really knowing the facts behind issues. It is unfortunate that such things exist, but that is life and in truth, is alas basic human nature. Most of us jump on the accusatory bandwagon from time to time. However, the information Uri presented in this article is factual and well presented and accomplishes the purpose I believe Uri may have been trying for– not to pit the old against the new, but to demonstrate major changes in Second Life and an underlying current of extensive customer dissatisfaction with the SL platform and the direction it’s heading… as well as revealing some of the reasons such exist. I have never tried to harm Linden Lab or SL and have certainly never “griefed” anyone. Crying “the emperor has no clothes” is not a personal assault– it’s a statement of reality.

   People can disclaim or attack such issues all they wish– they can call names and make groundless accusations until the moon turns plaid– but as pointed out on the Elf Clan website, out of a supposed 1.1 million + members, more than 850,000 have not logged on in the last week. This should at least wake some people up to the possibility that all is not well in SL Wonderland. Several long-time players have left the grid in frustration. Elf Clan, one of the largest and most active groups on the grid just ceased supporting the platform. If that means nothing to Linden Lab, then they are bound to lose far more than Elf Clan.
9. 

   Wayfinder Wishbringer
   

   Dec 1st, 2006
   

   Oops. Just realized that I got some names misplaced and the wrong names credited for statements. Grrrrr. Didn’t realize that names FOLLOWED the posts rather than preceding them (a bit of an unusual format). So, please excuse the name displacements… one of the problems with not being able to edit comments after posting.
10. 

    Wayfinder Wishbringer
    

    Dec 2nd, 2006
    

    A comment for “Rodney” (Rodney Lee Jessop, I take it?). You publicly call me a liar, state that I’m dishonorable and “destroyed” Elf Clan, that I somehow fabricated all this and that you “muted” me because I “tried to sway you to my side”. Typical “Rodney” message. All rant, no factual information. We’ve seen it before, guy.

    The first question that comes to mind is why in the world would I fabricate a story, remove an officer from our group and lose 3 sims in the process? Did you ever stop to ask yourself that question? What was to be gained by me? Didn’t you ever even stop to question WHY these things happened? Or did you just swallow the propaganda?

    You’ve made accusations here without a shred of information to back up your claims. You call names– and pretty much leave it at that, as if your word should be enough to convince anyone. But now let’s discuss what really happened.

    When you joined Elf Clan, I befriended you in every way possible You wanted to join the Guard. I trained you personally, spending hours helping you practice at our skill sessions. When you opened your own land, I provided you with equipment so that you could practice there– something I made available to no one else. In every way I worked to make you feel welcome in this group.

    You were granted the respected position of Elf Clan Guard, sworn by oath to protect the group. But the first chance that you had to demonstrate that oath and your loyalty to this group, you not only betrayed me, but Elf Clan as well. You joined a group that appropriated our lands, destroyed our history and engaged in griefer tactics (I don’t say you were involved in that griefing… but you undeniably failed to protect Elf Clan from such). You were called on to keep your oath as Guard; you failed in that task.

    An Oath Rodney, is not to be cast aside at first whim. You at least had the obligation to examine these matters thoroughly before making such a decision. You did not. You betrayed Elf Clan the first opportunity you got; your oath meant nothing.

    You swallowed the propaganda of Fredrich hook line and sinker, apparently never even considering the possibility that as Forcythia’s business partner, he might be up to his neck in the matter himself. You accuse me of lack of honor. Where was your honor in these matters? Why did you not challenge his statements rather than blindly believing them? That is not Guard; that isn’t even Elf Clan. Our trust in you proved misplaced.

    As far as your accusation of “ego”… sorry, in my experience it is usually he who cries such the loudest who is the most guilty. It’s easy to call names Rodney. Deeds speak the truth.

    I imagine no leader is totally free of ego; in moderation it is part of what causes people to strive, to achieve. I was Founder of Elf Clan and the one who assigned Forcythia her office in the first place. She did not found this group and for the first several weeks of operation– she didn’t even hold a position. She was a member, like everyone else. Since I assigned her office and she abused that office, it was my obligation to protect the group from such activities. There was certainly no ego involved in the painful decision to remove her from that position, nor in dealing with the problems that followed.

    When you were presented with a lengthy document detailing the facts of what had happened, you ignored the entire document and the sworn testimony of five of Elf Clan’s most respectable members. Why? Apparently because by that time, you didn’t want to acknowledge any evidence that you’d made some bad decisions, and that the actions you’d taken and the accusations you’d publicly made were in error. You did not have the courage to admit you might have been mistaken. It is unfortunate that a handful of other Guard exhibited your same attitude. It is unfortunate that the same characteristics that makes some wish to be Guard also makes them succeptible to mob mentality.

    Fortunately, that was not the case with all of the Guard. Those who left were replaced– and by those who proved themselves far more honorable. I will cite the case of one Guard, a wonderful Dragon Inuchan, who took his position so honorably and seriously that he would sit for hours in front of the Castle, greeting people and watching over the land. That is what Elf Clan was about– not self-serving politics. That should have been you there Rodney. You chose against that honor.

    I’m sorry you took the steps you chose. I’m sorry you allowed yourself to be swayed by the lies and propaganda that were circulated after these matters. But I will say this: no matter what went on behind the scenes, Forcythyia’s and Fredrick’s public activities should have been enough to convince any thinking individual that something just wasn’t right. Forcythia single-handedly started a very public civil war, banned the Founder of the group from “her” lands, started her own group on lands financed through Elf Clan funding. They contradicted their own statements in public meetings. They destroyed Elf Clan’s original sim. Contrary to your statement, Forcythia alone was the one who broke up Elf Clan. I didn’t start a public civil war or divide the sims; those were her decisions and activities. That you don’t see this, even to this day, is just sad.

    Despite all that, Elf Clan continued to thrive. Up until the day the decision was made to cease support of Second Life, Elf Clan became stronger than it ever was before. At the time of our shutting down, we had 659 members… more than our entire history. The majority of members saw right through this nonsense and realized that despite the facade, there was rottenness behind Forcythia’s actions. THEY stuck with Elf Clan. They stuck to their oath of honor, loyalty, respect and integrity. And that is why Elf Clan, although down to one sim, continued to thrive. The heart of the group had always been not in land ownership– but in those four basic characteristics of our Charter. That’s what made Elf Clan so different, so popular, and what attracted so many people to the group.

    I’m sorry you made the decisions you did. I’m sorry you were sucked in by all the nonsense. We were friends (or so I’d thought). That stopped. But that was your decision. You are an adult and responsible for your own actions. You claim you muted me because I was trying to sway you to my side. All I did was present evidence to help you make your own decision. As I recall, you muted me because after all the evidence was presented, you still copped an insulting and arrogant attitude (the same attitude shown in your message above) and I told you plainly that you had taken a course of dishonor and had broken your oath not just to me, but to Elf Clan itself. That was something you did not want to face. Unable to argue, you muted me. Pretty common response.

    Those are the facts, Rodney.

    I never tried to force information on anyone; just the contrary– I was at first very reluctant to release private information pertaining to group management. So you certainly did not mute me because I was harassing you and trying to get you to join my “side”. Get real. After your publicly displayed attitude, I frankly didn’t want you in the group. You were not Elf Clan.

    Those are the facts. The only lies here are those you continue to tell yourself. We all make mistakes in our lives. When we do, we have two choices: we either accept that and strive to not make the same error again– or we blame others for our actions. Sorry you chose the course you did. You lost my friendship, your position in the group, your welcome in Elf Clan lands. Your decision. The problem was your own– no one else’s and certainly not mine. And no matter how hard you try to convince yourself and others otherwise– those facts won’t change.

    The point of this article isn’t the internal issues of Elf Clan– but rather Linden Lab’s response to those issues and the result to Second Life. The Elf Clan Counsel unanimously decided to close down this group and cease support of this platform. The reason was not because of Forcythia or anyone else of her group– it was because of Linden Lab policies and company failure to support one of their largest, most active, and most successful groups.

    For the record, Linden Lab was given every opportunity to correct these matters… and at little or no cost to themselves. It was understandable that they might not wish to take “sides” in these issues. But it was their policies that allowed a renegade officer to appropriate group-funded lands. So I simply asked them to replace the three sims that were taken from us– something that would have cost them very little to do (the cost of a single server?). It would have pulled in for Linden Lab about $9,360 US in sim fees over the next year. They declined to answer. All politics aside, that is just plain ignorant business. And it told me that they don’t care one bit about Elf Clan or other large groups on the board. As Uri pointed out– it seems their focus is heading toward the corporate sector, where the big money is… and hang the “little” guy. Only thing was, Elf Clan wasn’t so little.

    I tried very hard to get them in some way to assist Elf Clan in these matters. Their single, sole response to our group– after three months of waiting: “…there is nothing in the evidence that you presented to us that breaks our Terms of Service. Agreements regarding financial arrangements between residents is outside of our purview to moderate.” Or to put matters plainly, members can steal one another blind and Linden Lab absolves itself of all moderative responsibility. It’s their board, their power, their decision to do nothing in such instances.

    Shortly thereafter I announced my decision to leave Second Life, and a month later, the Counsel unanimously decided to cease support of the platform. To continue to invest in such a company would have been a monumental waste of time and money. Considering the company policies, extensive lag and performance problems, repetitive super-bugs, copyright issues (isn’t Copybot and the lack of security against such wonderful?), ownership issues, grid downtimes etc etc, continuing to invest thousands of dollars in such a platform would have been unwise.

    I loved Second Life– obvious in that I spent two years in heavy support of the system. But that love wasn’t returned– and never will be. Corporations as a rule neither respect nor love their customers– for them it’s all bottom line and stockholder accountability. But a company that fails to support its customers– will lose its customers. In the end run, it will be seen which philosophy wins out.

    The shame is– this isn’t an isolated case. Elf Clan wasn’t the first group to become frustrated with Linden Lab and Second Life- nor will it likely be the last.
    http://elfclan.net

    But Rodney, as for you, personally, I have one thing to say, ex-Guard: stop blaming others for your problems.
11. 

    Rodney
    

    Dec 9th, 2006
    

    See, he proved my point, Fanatic all the way, and still lying, oh well hope his first life gets a clue
12. 

    Wayfinder Wishbringer
    

    Dec 16th, 2006
    

    LOL. Rodney, you are one unique individual. Stubborn to the last, eh?

    OK, you call me fanatical and a liar again. As always, you present no facts, no information, just another Rodney rant. The reason of course is plain: you have no facts… you have no true information. All you can do is call names and label because your decisions were not based on factual evidence– they were based on Rodney attitude.

    I’m not going to continue to wage a snit war with you, but I will say this: you seriously need to get away from SL and back to real life. I’m sure that if this were real life, you would not have the courage to call me a liar to my face. Because in real life, you can’t hide behind a keyboard and you have to face the consequences of your actions.
13. 

    Elfish Pressleaf
    

    Jan 24th, 2007
    

    Shocking how fast Myst went from a donation to Elf Clan (stated by Wayfinder during the aftermath) to being a donation to Wayfinder himself.
14. 

    Wayfinder Wishbringer
    

    Feb 14th, 2007
    

    “Elfish Pressleaf”, I’ve seen two slanderous posts from you on this board. Since I don’t recognize your name, you either weren’t around Elf Clan or were using an alt. Regardless of your identity, your posts contain blatant lies– and I don’t use such strong language with many people. Spout your propaganda elsewhere. ElvenMyst was my personal property, given to me by DrakeCon DeFarge with full permission to “do whatever with it you want. Sell it and take a vacation if you want.” Those are the facts… something you should perhaps stick to.

    Sorry folks for the strong reply, but I’ve had enough of lying trolls to last a lifetime.
15. 

    Merrick
    

    May 23rd, 2007
    

    “Second Life is like anything else. One can use it for occasional entertainment… or it can become a pervasive addiction.”

    A little disapointed by this comment. Why do we have to be so fundamentalist about things like SL? It can be many other things in between entertainment and addiction. It is up to the individual to manage their contribution and to make sure (if it is important to them) that they complete more than one painting in RL to be an artist. Spaces like SL can be about the Other rather than the All Consuming. I hope Wayfinder can find his way to navigate the two rather than leave so much good work behind.
16. 

    Beef
    

    Jun 18th, 2007
    

    “A little disapointed by this comment. Why do we have to be so fundamentalist about things like SL? It can be many other things in between entertainment and addiction.”

    I do not understand your use of the term ‘fundamentalist’. Would you care to explain?
    Bringer says that “Second Life is like anything else”, which indicates to me that he entirely understands that it can be like many other things, unless you seriously want to pursue the case that he is saying that EVERYTHING is either entertaining or addictive. Childbirth? Dinner? Breathing?

    But to simplify the issue, I would sum him up as saying that you either use SL as leisure time, or you attempt to ‘live’ there. Can you really take issue with that?

17. Angry Elf King to LL: Stop Blocking Our PG Events!!! | The Alphaville Herald
    

    Jan 12th, 2011
    

    [...] Wayfinder Wishbringer of the Elf Clan is very unhappy with Linden Lab – and believes that the struggling metaverse service provider may be attempting to drive PG sims out of the walled garden of Second Life. [...]
18. 

    Spot
    

    Jan 11th, 2015
    

    Well this is really old news. elf clan went on to inworldz to rule it as a pg rated grid. best thing ever happened to second life

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