Elves Dispersed
by prokofy on 06/11/06 at 3:43 am
An elf returns to real life…
By Prokofy Neva, Dept. of Community Affairs
Another troubling sign of change in our world.
I was digging through all the noise on World of SL, with its BlogHud babble and neon Torley Linden snaps, when suddenly I glimpsed a signal: a brief mention in Osprey Therein’s blog that the Elf Clan led by Wayfinder Wishbringer was disbanded.
“As things in life do, the 659 member Elf Clan has reached its end,” writes Osprey. “Change can bring sadness, yet it was lovely being part of the Clan and nothing lasts forever.”
Efforts to TP to the island called ElfenMyst first led to messages about being banned; then on other accounts that the destination could not be entered. It’s gone from the sim list and likely sold or transferred. Wayfinder, the clan leader, has only this terse message on his profile: ” Packing up and getting back to REAL life, November 2006. To Elf Clan: Vendui’ Elvenae! My love to you all!”
It wasn’t so long ago that the forests of Second Life rang with the clang of armour, the shouts of battle with Orcs, the whirs of arrows in archery contests. A visit to these particular Elven sims was an enchanting adventure.
Other elf islands remain and even this group remains in the Group List, but losing Wayfinder to the community of role-players is like losing Starax to the community of artists — bad stuff, and adding to the increasing uneasy feeling that in order to save the platform, they have to kill the world.
The Herald interviewed Wayfinder and other elven leaders in February 2005. At that time the group was numbered at 200; it increased dramatically over the next year and the groups moved to the islands.
urizenus
Nov 6th, 2006
More evidence that we are living in end times. As the meat-space corporate invasion picks up steam how much longer will the indigenous races of Second Life survive? Some day soon, the last elf, the last furry, and the last unicorn will turn out the lights on the last non-corporate simulator and slip away into the ether, leaving behind a vast sterile wall-to-wall advertisement. And on that day, the Sheep and the Millions-of-Us-aires and the marketing and PR firms will skip to the bank saying “They said it couldn’t be done, but we did it: we now have a perfect simulation of late 20th century corporate america. Ain’t the future kewl?” And then they will get back to work for their new client Denny’s, building (what else?) precise scale models of the latest Denny’s franchises.”
Mr F.
Nov 6th, 2006
“Some day soon, the last elf, the last furry, and the last unicorn will turn out the lights”
not soon enough.
urizenus
Nov 6th, 2006
Yes, Mr. F, and after the furries and elves are gone they will come for the blinged out RP Gangsters and erotic club owners…
Prokofy Neva
Nov 6th, 2006
It’s hard to know if the other groups like Elf Circle will pick up the slack. I see other elf sims still cooking, but they are evidently all run by ordinary individuals and groups without the huge wealth and resources needed to keep paying increasing island costs and tier fees.
Just to correct a mistaken summary there — back when the Herald reports on elves in 2005, 200 was the estimate of ALL elf groups; so obviously the population has boomed if 659 could all be found in just one group today (and there are quite a few more). No doubt they will regroup and re-deploy elsewhere…we can only hope.
Artemis Fate
Nov 6th, 2006
It’s like the end of the Lord of the Rings all over again!
Briana Dawson
Nov 6th, 2006
Jeeeze, I’ve been in Elf since my first day in SL back in September 2003 and I have NEVER heard of these organizations. Someone fill me in! I’m a Elf left out in the cold!
Prokofy Neva
Nov 6th, 2006
Yes, no doubt there are lots of people in this big world who won’t have heard of those who consider themselves “the” elves or “the” furries — it’s that big a place. And that’s a good thing!
And some are IM’ing me and telling me, oh, it’s just an internal elf drama, so they split, so what, big deal, it happens, groups have fights and split.
Except, I think outsiders are entitled to try to see the larger patterns here, without getting knee-deep in the weeds of elf-politics.
Wayfinder was a major brand name in the pointy-ears-folks-in-tights world. Not only content-wise, with products that replicated across the world even among non-elves, but personality and leadership wise, and also in complaining about the Lindens and their servers. Wayfinder went toe-to-toe with Lee Linden on many occasions and out-Lee’d Lee on things like server performance statistics gathering.
The rise in costs, the diminishing of performance, the lack of disputes mechanisms, the impossibility of trying to build and work with a group but then be able to manage the inevitable splits and dispersals of IP, etc. — these are all real problems that you can’t just say are problems of this or that elf group splitting into 2 or 3 elf groups out of one. It’s a sign of stress and strain on the world itself that these things keep happening.
If costs weren’t so prohibitive now; if people could manage their differences more easily; if, if, if….then a disagreement in elf-topia might not escalate to having to return to Real Life.
Nacon
Nov 6th, 2006
I can’t believed you said about Starax leaving SL as if it was a big loss… Because he can make statues? Bullshit, I can make statues as well but I’ve been told that I did better job than he could. Bullshit I say.
Now this? All 659 elves decided to leave? wtf? Sound like the leader or the owner of the group screwed something up and had to leave to save himself/herself the embarrassment.
It just doesn’t mean the end of all elves, there will be others in else where… like one up above who ACTUALLY NEVER HEARD OF IT! It’s retardly bullshit report for today.
Urizenus
Nov 6th, 2006
I think we need to get further into this story to see what happened. Wayfinder was a serious force of nature in SL, and if he is leaving he will be missed. If he is merely stepping down as an island lord, he will be missed in that role.
I know a lot of people hate the elves. I remember the conflicts between Yadni and the Kao’ans on the one hand and the Elves on the other back in days when my Bedford Sim was adjacent to Wayfinder’s sim. Still I always found the elves gracious and friendly, and an important addition to SL life.
Wayfinder could be a tough old fart, which is sometimes what it takes to build a community in SL. I dunno, whatever the full story is, this is a sad day for SL.
Cocoanut Koala
Nov 6th, 2006
I’m not an elf, but I knew Wayfinder and my heart sighed when I read he was leaving. Yet another good one gone. It’s a loss to us, a loss to the elf community, and a loss to LL.
And yes, losing Starax was a loss. He was a great SL artist, and SL art, in my opinion, is an art form of its own.
The smart ones are either going to work for the corporations, or cutting their losses and leaving.
coco
Urizenus
Nov 6th, 2006
Coco, it’s good that you remind us that a lot of the best and brightest are not leaving but are being borged by the corporations and are now building giant virtual monuments to corporations, rather than doing the really creative things they were up to in the old days. Clearly that is even worse than losing them outright.
Cocoanut Koala
Nov 8th, 2006
Major landlord Hiro Queso is getting out of the rental business due the the increased cost of islands.
The future is Advertising World, and the vision is this:
Those of us who want a home in SL will live on this or that land offered by a major real-life corporation.
Because only they will be able to afford the tier.
coco
Heather
Jan 1st, 2007
You know, I just have to say, Wayfinder was known because he loved to hear himself talk. Elf circle has more then accomplished in just a few months what it took elf Clan years to do and then some. I am sure his friends will miss him but it is HARDLY the death of elven kind. That groups leadership failed but the people, the elves still exists and infact are growing and expanding. Yes change can be hard for some but when things stay the same it gets stagnit, growth is good. The shame is he couldnt grow with the rest.
Ahhh whatever, I wish him happiness, it isnt like he actually left he is frequently on sl still.
Elfish Pressleaf
Jan 24th, 2007
Wayfinder drove his own community and Sim into the ground and then blamed everyone else for it. He had trouble separating himself from Elf Clan, and with such a mental problem it is likely best for him and everyone that he left.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 9th, 2007
Greetings all. I was recommended to this blog and can see why. I thank you for all your kind comments and sympathies in the closing of Elf Clan. Contrary to statements above, I rarely visit SL these days– thus the general lack of valid information regarding me and Elf Clan. I’ve kept the character open to visit old friends on occasion or to continue to help those who have purchased my merchandise in the past, as honor requires. Beyond that, I have little need to revisit the platform.
As always, Provky has her own opinions. What else is new?
“Sound like the leader or the owner of the group screwed something up and had to leave to save himself/herself the embarrassment.” Zero facts, zero information, but still the infamous Provky opinion. Wouldn’t be Provky otherwise. Like Uriziness, I appreciated Starax art– as did many other people. Doesn’t matter that others can scuplt– he was the one who got it started and made a name for himself. And Uri was the most on-shot when he said that people are “cutting their losses and leaving”. That’s exactly what happened with Elf Clan. We’d invested enough in the shaky SL platform and poor company policies. The Elf Clan Counsel simply decided to stop throwing yet further money away on a project with a questionable future. That’s it, bottom line.
Coconut, some funny comments from you. Of all people, to accuse others of liking to hear themselves talk… LOL. I felt it proper to reply to one comment you made: “Elf circle has more then accomplished in just a few months what it took elf Clan years to do and then some.” Are you completely unacquainted with HOW that happened? Elf Circle was formed by building on a foundation designed by me and Elf Clan members, on lands funded by Elf Clan, using concepts created by Elf Clan. Elf Circle lands were not purchased by Elf Circle– they were purchased by donations, rentals and merchant fees raised by Elf Clan (Elf Clan isn’t the only group to lose lands to renegade officers under Linden Lab policy– and we won’t be the last). You can claim all the laudits for Elf Circle you wish– but the group was founded on theft and dishonor– and covered over by acts of slander and propaganda. No accomplishments of that group will ever completely hide the shame of how the group was started… or the fact that its founder betrayed Elf Clan to achieve her goals. No matter how many mistakenly believe the lies that have been told in relation to these activities… the truth will always be known by the long-time members who witnessed such deeds… and by those who committed them.
Elf Clan was founded on our own hard work, efforts, design and enthusiasm. I applaud the efforts of those who spent two years making Elf Clan what it proved to be. It’s easy to start a group on the work, funds and lands of others. Try doing it from scratch some time. I will say that if Linden Lab had an ounce of ethics or fortitude– Elf Circle would have never succeeded… and Elf Clan would still be the most active Fantasy group on the grid. So if you want to blame anyone for the demise of Elf Clan… look to those who are responsible, not those who put sweat, time and money into building it.
But when one gets right down to it, nothing on Second Life is “real”, permanent, nor earth-shaking. When the Elf Clan Counsel decided to close Elf Clan, it was realized such would have little effect on Second Life in general and no loss of tears from Linden Lab. But we knew that there would be those who would remember, who would cherish those memories and who would carry on the tradition of honor, respect, integrity and loyalty that was the creed of Elf Clan. That’s all that any of us can do– whether on Second Life or in Real Life.
Uriziness old friend, as well as the others who knew Elf Clan and appreciated what it stood for, Vendui’! I am enjoying real life immensely. I have to admit that getting away from the flaky SL platform and not having to deal with LL policies has reduced my stress levels immensely. RL projects have gone very well. I miss old friends, am making new ones. There are without doubt aspects of Second Life that I shall always miss… and that shall remain a part of me for a long time to come. The memories of Elf Clan, the creativity, the community– those things are not quickly forgotten. My best to you all.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 9th, 2007
Re: “As always, Provky has her own opinions. What else is new?
“Sound like the leader or the owner of the group screwed something up and had to leave to save himself/herself the embarrassment.” Zero facts, zero information, but still the infamous Provky opinion.”
I’ve always found you to be a pompous, imperious ass, Wayfinder, and you’ve never proved me wrong. This time is no exception, and others are my witness.
Your statement is completely, hilariously, tendentiously wrong. There is absolutely nothing in my ordinary, factual news piece here that implies anything of the kind that you imply here. And as I hardly knew the circumstances, and merely read others’ reports and your own blog, what was I supposed to say?
Sounds to me — although I didn’t speculate about this in the piece — that your being a pompous, imperious ass as witnessed in many other things (browbeating on forums, bullying of Lindens, etc.) led to your downfall in elfland, too. That doesn’t mean you didn’t accomplish things. You often have to be a pompous, imperious ass to get anything done in SL, where you are surrounded by other pompous, imperious asses. So be it. But then, live by the sword, die by the sword honorably, as an elf should.
You had me banned from the Elf sims — further indication of your total assholery. I’m not an elf, I’m not in your RP, I had absolutely nothing to do with you. You banned me not for anything I did in world, not for any sort of actual battles in your world, or any kind of griefing of land or something but *merely because you didn’t like what I wrote on the forums*. That’s just plain reprehensible.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 9th, 2007
The utter blindness of your conception is vividly visible with this kind of statement:
>And Uri was the most on-shot when he said that people are “cutting their losses and leaving”. That’s exactly what happened with Elf Clan. We’d invested enough in the shaky SL platform and poor company policies. T
>but losing Wayfinder to the community of role-players is like losing Starax to the community of artists — bad stuff, and adding to the increasing uneasy feeling that in order to save the platform, they have to kill the world.
when you can’t see that all I’ve done is say *the same thing*:
My post charitably overlooked your ban character, and petty crap like you banning me from your sim over *the forums* (!), and said that it was a bad thing when the Lindens essentially force people like you out of the world.
If you can’t see that, then there isn’t much hope for the world anyway, and maybe it really no longer matters what the Lindens do or don’t do.
Just a thought
Feb 9th, 2007
You know, I find this one section in your response to be the most amusing I’ve seen yet Prokofy, and for once I’m going to ask a question of you – a genuine question because quire frankly I’m puzzled ….
“You had me banned from the Elf sims — further indication of your total assholery. I’m not an elf, I’m not in your RP, I had absolutely nothing to do with you. You banned me not for anything I did in world, not for any sort of actual battles in your world, or any kind of griefing of land or something but *merely because you didn’t like what I wrote on the forums*. That’s just plain reprehensible.”
Now, I know you’re responding to Wayfinder, but I really do have to ask this: Have you ever used any other online service aside from Second Life and perhaps an E0mail service?
I have …. and this sort of thing happens all the time with any service where a user is given the power to ban or eject …. Doesn’t make it right however.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 9th, 2007
LOL Provky, took three messages to get all that out, did it? Look, it’s not all that unusual for someone to be on your bad side, or for you to consider someone an “imperious ass” (from what I see of your blogs and posts from one side of the grid to the other, I join what, about 99% of the SL population in being on your bad side?).
Nothing unusual or new there. Nor is it surprising that not being a member of Elf Clan and having no clue what went on with the group. Even if you were, I’m sure the Provky-Distortion-Factor would have to be taken into consideration.
But to address your being banned from Elf Clan lands… no, you weren’t a member, nor an Elf. Forgive me for being blunt, but you consistently act in a hateful, tactless, flaming and heavily opinionated manner, and you have no problem with going out of your way to harass people who disagree with your opinions (I think this will come as no shock to anyone).
When I in my doesn’t-know-Prov ignorance dared to disagree with one of your hateful posts, you began flaming me like kindling. When I got tired of it and refused to argue further with you, you started sending me harasing IMs. When I asked you to cease, you refused, and when I finally was forced to mute you, you started sending me harassing notecards. That was when you were reported to Linden Lab and thankfully, they stepped in and put a stop to that nonsense. And you wonder why I’m not willing to give you an email? Reason: because I still have an active brain cell or two and you evidence a freaking stalker mentality with a good helping of instability on the side, that’s why. You were at one time banned from SL forums for your viscious attitude and you’ve been banned from more than one place on SL for the same reason you were banned from Elf Clan lands: we didn’t want such hateful people on the land. Again, sorry to be blunt, but that’s what you seem to appreciate. Gives you more fuel for the Provky fire I guess.
Mind you, doesn’t mean I hate you. Over time, I’ve actually grown used to you and over the past two years actually got to the point I found your continual rants entertaining from a tabloid-newszine sort of view (as in “does anyone actually buy this stuff?” morbid curiosity kind of thing. LOL). Not to mention the fact that your regular pot shots against Linden Lab aren’t always that off-base.
I don’t wish to be snide Prov but really, I think myself far from alone on the “bad side of Provky” list. To be honest, I’m kinda surprised that you’re so amazed at being banned from Elf Clan lands. What would have been amazing would have been if you’d been welcome after all the stunts you pulled. Pretty simple formula really: harass a member of Second Life, get banned from that member’s lands. Not all that difficult a concept, really.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 9th, 2007
Hate to double post, but a totally separate thing that I failed to address earlier, and a bit of heavy insomnia last night has me wired.
Posted by: Heather | January 01, 2007 at 11:00 PM
“Wayfinder drove his own community and Sim into the ground and then blamed everyone else for it. He had trouble separating himself from Elf Clan, and with such a mental problem it is likely best for him and everyone that he left.”
A quick reply to this. I’ve seen similar posts from this user in just about every blog or forum that contains my name. As in this case, she often attacks me as the result of an article saying nice things about me or Elf Clan or Elf Clan lands. Her posts are always the same: highly critical, personal attacks, insulting, name-calling… and zero factual information. And when challenged, she refuses to provide anything more than further name-calling and hate posts.
In other areas, she’s claimed to be a “long time member” of Elf Clan and supposedly active in the group… which is somewhat puzzling considering I have no knowledge of a “Heather” among our members. So either she’s a member of the opposition spouting yet more propaganda (well, that’s the case anyway) or, I’ll make a wild guess: her failure to reveal her supposed Elf Clan identity is to prevent exposure of a past personal issues she had with the group and to prevent factual rebuttal to her name-calling.
How close to spot-on is that guess, “Heather”?
Don’t mean to be trite, really. Just tired of this kind of mindless mud-sling-post in blog after blog. Seriously, it’s pretty easy to say someone is a jerk and a tyrant and probably has mental problems etc etc blah blah blah. It’s another thing to present the facts and stand up to having your claims and your own history and reputation put under the microscope. I sign my known name to my posts. Why the consistent anonymity, Heather? What are you hiding– and why do you feel the need to do so? If you’re going to slam me in public, at least do so honestly. Otherwise, it’s nothing more than attitude– something of which it would seem Second Life has no short supply.
Cocoanut Koala
Feb 9th, 2007
Wayfinder, I think you have me mixed up with someone else when you say,
“Coconut, some funny comments from you. Of all people, to accuse others of liking to hear themselves talk… LOL. I felt it proper to reply to one comment you made: “Elf circle has more then accomplished in just a few months what it took elf Clan years to do and then some.” Are you completely unacquainted with HOW that happened?”
… and so on.
My two posts were:
——–
“I’m not an elf, but I knew Wayfinder and my heart sighed when I read he was leaving. Yet another good one gone. It’s a loss to us, a loss to the elf community, and a loss to LL.
“And yes, losing Starax was a loss. He was a great SL artist, and SL art, in my opinion, is an art form of its own.
“The smart ones are either going to work for the corporations, or cutting their losses and leaving.”
———-
“Major landlord Hiro Queso is getting out of the rental business due the the increased cost of islands.
“The future is Advertising World, and the vision is this:
“Those of us who want a home in SL will live on this or that land offered by a major real-life corporation.
“Because only they will be able to afford the tier.
———–
coco
Olga Kerensky
Feb 9th, 2007
There is yet a refuge of old. I hear that there are still plenty of elves about in DarkWood, though they be secretive in their ways, and a good deal of land on the market for new residents. One of the better known land baronesses swept in on us, several months ago, and bought up a quarter of the sim for speculative reasons. She apparently hoped to buy us all out and cut down our groves. I guess she had no idea of the tears and blood that have been shed over that blessed region, free(relatively)from strife. This week, however, after her failure to get any more of us to sell our holdings and finding that we are to hostile to her corporate tactics, this person has decided to sell out. Prokofy, you will always find a welcome in our land. “Мы оба из них ненавидел”
Just a thought
Feb 9th, 2007
Hmm, wayfinder, I’d have to say that – given the choice and chance – I’d have done the same bloody thing. Just do me a favor next time ok? Don’t mistake my responses to be Prok. she only responded to you twice.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 9th, 2007
Coconut, you are 100% correct. That’s the 2nd time I’ve made that mistake on the Herald Blogs (the name following the underline of the message is just the opposite of the way most blogs work and makes it look like the person posted the message underneath… not above. Imust admit, I was somewhat surprised to read such a comment from “you” because we’ve chatted a lot on the forums and that just didn’t sound like Coco… but there were so many that betrayed Elf Clan in that debacle that nothing surprises me any more. So very glad to hear your real comments… and thanks.
PROK: Because of the same reason, my APOLOGIES TO PROK above. Reading back, I can see that your message was quite complimentary and supportive– which again, surprised me because as we both know, we’ve had our issues in the past. Issues aside, could I erase or edit, I would. since I can’t… I humbly apologize for my mis-attributing the wrong post to you Prok, and in this case, sincerely beg forgiveness for an unwarranted and undeserved retort. There are enough battles on SL, the forums and the blogs without attributing wrong motive where there was none. Please be assured the error was not intentional… and deeply regretted.
Same to Just a Thought… if I misatributed a wrong post to you or anyone else– deep apologies. Even Elven Lords are capable of error, and this one was mine. A legitimate one caused by oddly laid-out messages, but my error nevertheless.
To Olga: A friend has made me aware of what’s going on in DarkWood. That sim has long been an odd mixture of great contention– and great beauty. I’ve heard of the outrageous prices being asked for land there (49L per meter? gasp!) and although I’m no longer a resident of DarkWood, I hate to see the once-home of Elf Clan and current home of friends abused in such a manner. The sim was originally designed with a set price of 1m per land by special arrangement with Linden Lab, in order to establish a totally fantasy environment, and for quite some time even the new residents adhered to the honor of that original agreement. No one expected that to last forever… but I think no one expected 49L/m either. Although I rarely visit Second Life these days– for a certainty I care about friends and those-who-could-have-been-friends and how they fare on the board. Therefore, my best wishes to you all… and hopes for regained stability in DarkWood, population by fantasy folk who will uphold the theme, and continued beauty in that sim.
To those who actually did leave the attack messages above– well, you know who you are. The points made in return, though mis-aimed, are still valid: ranting without evidence or fact is just that. Spouting personal attacks, vindictives, calling names… that and a buck will buy coffee. You want to challenge me, bring your facts… and don’t be surprised if the Warrior Elf packs a defensive sword of his own. (Although frankly, due to the odd nature of this blog, I’m understandably going to be hesitant to respond to such in fear of attributing ill-will to the wrong people. Ugh. Hates that, I does).
Again, my apologies to Coco, Prov, Just and (whomever else) for misattributing messages… and for being unable to change or remove printed word. Where foot cannot be removed from mouth, I beg permission to at least season it for better flavor.
Urizenus
Feb 9th, 2007
Way, I think we should consider the problem corrected. If we start trying to remove comments the follow-up comments won’t make sense. Let’s just hope people read far enough to get your correction and apology. Certainly Prok and Coco will get that far.
Cocoanut Koala
Feb 9th, 2007
Yes, I consider the problem corrected.
And I’m so glad you came back to read this, Wayfinder, I’ve been worried about it all day!
I wouldn’t want you to go off to that elven glen in the great beyond (beyond SL, that is) thinking I’d said those things!
coco
David Cartier
Feb 9th, 2007
It’s a great shame to see this happening to Elf Clan; it meant so much to so many of its members. I can’t recommend that anyone buy any land from poor Ansche at her sadly inflated prices. I’m sure that she’ll be coming down to a sensible $7L/m sq, or thereabouts, once Linden drops a few more mainland sims on the grid. We are not going to let Anshe upset us with her business models, that is too 2005. DarkWood is a happy and stable community, of late. We get all number of Swedes and Belgians and Germans and French visitors from the Welcome Area and their delight in our home is very gratifying. The tone in Darkwood has been greatly improved ever since I realized that the best form of government for Second Life is the Ottoman Model; avoid all petty squabbles. Take bribes from both sides in a dispute and then do nothing. Magic.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 9th, 2007
Well, thanks for your apology, I suppose, and I understand how mistakes do indeed get made on this blog. But you banned me for no good reason long ago, and the new elf caretakers immediately unbanned me — I actually came to their fundraiser and covered it for the Herald. Whatever.
Wayfinder, frankly, you are like others among the FIC who rant and rave in hysterics about my alleged behaviour on the forums — in a way that is not even merely tendentious, but an outright, conspiratorial Big Lie. You did it here again, regardless of believing or not believing some mistakenly read post. It’s what gangs of thugs do when they fear the slightest criticism and the loss of their privileged positions, they lash out completely unreasonably and hysterically. Fortunately, anyone can examine the archives and look up my posts and see what a hysterical and idiotic conspiracy it all is. My conscience is absolutely clear regarding the LL forums — absolutely. I pushed back, I fought the power, and that was the *right* thing to do.
There’s much to criticize Wayfinder for — his bullying on the forums, his insistence on his own economic theories prevailing, his harrying and harassing of Lindens — and that’s all on the record, and that’s all not only my perception either. I didn’t chose to raise it all and looked at the larger picture.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 12th, 2007
Ah, now there’s the Prok we all know… Never present facts when good-ol’ opinionated name-calling will do. LOL
>But you banned me for no good reason long ago,< Prok, I'm sorry you're upset about being banned from Elven lands, but as clearly stated above, it wasn't "for no good reason". I think my response to your harassment would be a pretty common. Besides, are we to believe this was the first and only time you have been banned from lands, forums or other areas for harassment of SL members? Sorry you didn't like that decision-- but that was the point, wasn't it? If you can't tell where to draw the line Prok, others will draw it for you. Fact of life.
That you are now welcome in Elven lands under a different group has nothing to do with the manner in which you treated me back in the days of Elf Clan. Bottom line: you harassed the Elven Lord, you were banned from the Elven lands. Get over it. Harass people who are there now like you harassed me back then, and you'll likely meet the same results.
>It’s what gangs of thugs do when they fear the slightest criticism and the loss of their privileged positions, they lash out completely unreasonably and hysterically.< What, I'm a thug now? LOL. And yet you think there's a "conspiracy" in reaction to your posts? Reminds me of the old joke, "I HATE IT when people keep telling me I overreact. I'd just like to kill them all!"
Prok, hate to tell you this-- ya bring such reactions on yourself. Openly attacking people tends to bring repercussion.
Besides, Prok, uh... what privileged position? I left SL months ago (and let me tell ya, real life is great). Elf Clan ceased financial support of Second Life. While I suppose I am still techinically the Founder of Elf Clan... the position of active "Elven Lord" is pretty much a part of history now. So again, what "privileged position" am I supposed to be defending?
>There’s much to criticize Wayfinder for — his bullying on the forums…< LOL talk about the skunk saying the possum stinks...
I don't know of anytime I've bullied anyone Prok. I've taken on Linden Lab and some related trolls a few times. I've had to defend Elf Clan and myself a few times. But "bullying"? I don't think so Tim. I've seen a lot of folks who attack others and then whine and play the victim when their victims fight back. When someone attacks me or my group, they should not be surprised to find out that Elves carry swords. But really Prok, no offense, but I think you're the last person on the planet that should be accusing someone else of bullying people on forums. LOL.
>Fortunately, anyone can examine the archives and look up my posts and see what a hysterical and idiotic conspiracy it all is. My conscience is absolutely clear regarding the LL forums –absolutely. I pushed back, I fought the power, and that was the *right* thing to do.< I have no problem with you 'fighting the power'; did that a few times myself. But as you said Prok, the posts are there for examination. If you feel 100% justified in your posts and have a "clean conscience" in such things... it might be good to have a little chat with that conscience and see if it's been sleeping on the job. Sometimes we don't realize how harshly our posts come across to others-- one of the drawbacks of written communication.
Everyone needs to know where to draw the line and when to leave well enough alone. One good criteria for drawing the line is when a person has no factual information on which to base statements. There was a LOT of that in the Elf Clan debacle. A lot of drama queens, a lot of emotionalism, a lot of people making claims without having a clue what actually happened, and people accepting lies without attempting to verify their truth or falsehood. Fortunately, such people were relatively few and Elf Clan continued to prosper and grow until the day we decided to cease support of Second Life. I was actually pleased to note that 90% of Elf Clan didn't fall for the lies and propaganda. Shame on the 10% who did. Early 2006, Elf Clan was the largest non-nightclub group on the grid. When we closed down in November, approximately four months after the split, our membership was higher than it had ever been in Elf Clan history.
>Wayfinder, frankly, you are like others among the FIC <
LOL, me — FIC? LOL. Prok, I think that just about anyone who has seen me square off face to face with Lee Linden and the rest of Linden Lab would get a chuckle out of that statement. If you were really aware of Elf Clan activities, you would know that I was the one that blew the lid off LL stacking sims on single boxes with single hard drives long before they finally admitted that fact to the public. I was also the one who stood toe to toe with Lee in the forum expose titled “The Lag Monster Myths”… which openly challenged Linden Lab claims regarded supposed causes for system lag (and their continual blaming it on the customer rather than admitting deep system problems).
So as the orcs would say… “WAYFINDER FIC? HAR! PROK MAKE GOOD JOKE!”
Anyhow, Prok, from the FIC-kissing, mindless-ban prone, gang-of-thug-oriented, unreasoning and hysterical forum bully, glad we have our differences cleared up. ;D
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 13th, 2007
The above notwithstanding… Prok, that was a very touching and excellent job you did on this article– which makes me regret even more that I misunderstood the forum layout and confused names (Uri, can that layout be fixed so that the name of the poster preceeds the post, rather than being separated from it by a line? Would help much).
I think you got right to the heart of the matter Prok, regarding Second Life losing those who worked to help build it. Your article was touching and right on the money. If I could erase the following distractive comments so that the point of that article would be the main focus… I would do so. You wrote a good one.
Lightheart Artform
Feb 16th, 2007
>>Elf Circle lands were not purchased by Elf Circle– they were purchased by donations, rentals and merchant fees raised by Elf Clan<<
If I’m reading this right. The current owner and/or investor was paid rent and you are claiming that it was a rent to own? Doesn’t that take some kind contract?
Lightheart Artform
Feb 16th, 2007
Also, it sounds like a mass defection from one group to the other . . . doesn’t that mean the membership who did the work was still, for the most part, doing the work but not under Wayfinder?
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 16th, 2007
You ask valid questions LIghtheart. I’ve no problems with that– nor in answering.
Yes, you are correct. There should have been some sort of official contract set up between Forcythia and I. However, some things should be realized in this:
1) When we first established Elf Clan, Second Life was still in its childhood days. There were less than 25,000 total residents, and neither of us ever dreamed that Elf Clan would boom to the size it did, nor that we would eventually have four sims. This wasn’t seen as a business venture; it was seen as a hobby. We were purchasing one sim for the good of the group. It simply never occurred to either of us that an official contract was needed.
2) There was an element of trust involved in this. At the time, Forcythia was a very active and trusted member of the group. In addition, this wasn’t a matter of one or two people buying a sim and “surpise! We have a sim!” To the contrary, the sim investment was very public and the entire group involved. Everyone knew how ElvenGlen was funded. Since we had only been members of SL for about 2 months (yeah, we were still newbs), we weren’t really aware of the inner workings of SL, the problems with Linden Lab policies, nor were we aware of land thefts that had already taken place on the board (and took place regularly). It wasn’t until examining the forums later that I came to understand what a wide-spread problem it was. It just never occured to me that Forcythia would ever be a) disloyal enough or b) audacious enough to appropriate those lands for her own use when everyone was aware that those lands were funded by Elf Clan members. To those in the know, it was never thought that land rentals were being paid to Forcythia for her personal benefit; she was the name on the lands because that’s what Linden Lab policy required, and those fees were being paid for the benefit of Elf Clan.
[A side note: it is a matter of general knowledge among older Elf Clan members when we first purchased those lands, we were told by Linden Lab that Forcythia and I would have joint and equal control over the sim. It was only when the sim was delivered that we discovered that was not the case-- and we were very upset. We immediately began a push for Linden Lab to establish joint ownership parameters-- which eventually resulted in the now existing Estate Management Tools-- which still don't meet the needs of group-funded sims. But at the beginning, although Forcythia's was the "billing name" on the sim, we had been lead to believe that we would both have joint and equal control over that sim-- which was the only reason I agreed to Elf Clan involvement in the first place.]
3) I trusted Linden Lab to moderate their board and prevent such things (duh. Did I find out different). They knew how the sims were funded. They were well aware of these things– several Lindens were members of Elf Clan. After the break, I had direct chat and telephone conversations with them. They basically took the hard line that no matter how it was funded, “Forcythia is the owner of record.” Which was the stance that finally caused Elf Clan to abandon the Linden Lab platform. No way we were going to continue shoveling funds into a company like that. We’re not the only group who has lost major assets to a renegade officer– nor will we likely be the last– especially in light of recent changes to the TOS that officially absolves Linden Lab of all such responsibilities.
Now, as far as “mass defection from one group to the other” and the “membership who did the work” still being involved, no that wasn’t the case.
In the first place, only about 10% of the members of Elf Clan joined Forcythia– and many of those due to not knowing which way to go due to all the lies and propaganda going around. Some were emotionalistic people who acted in drama-queen fashion, without even knowing why she had been removed from office (I still remember those initial public shouts “I’m with you Forcy!” from people who didn’t have a clue as to what was going on). Many of those who joined her group did so because they rented land and had homes on those lands and had to have whatever information she circulated through that group, so they were pretty much caught in the middle. (That’s not just me making claims; that was the general feedback from people who joined the new group while asking to retain membership in Elf Clan. We allowed such in almost every case– with a few noteable exceptions. Those who helped Forcythia destroy Elf Clan builds and in leveling ElvenGlen to bare earth, wiping out almost two years of Elf Clan history, and those who accepted officer positions in her group… yeah, those people were ejected, deservedly so).
In addition, the members who joined Forcythia tended to NOT be the original members who had generally funded such lands. It should be noted that the major contributors– people like Peter Lioncourt (one of the heaviest contributors to our group), Zekeen Phoenix (another major contributor), and Schlitzie Martini (yes, the legendary orc and oddly enough the very first resident to set up on ElvenGlen) immediately announced refusal to support Forcythia’s actions. Peter Lioncourt shut down his vast lands on ElvenGlen (including his financial support of the Gardens) as soon as he heard of her public activities. Both Zekeen Phoenix and Schlitzie Martini immediately moved their builds to ElvenMyst. Mean Golem, a long-time member who had major role in the wondrous Elf-Orc wars, did so as well. In total, after the fur settled, 90% of Elf Clan still supported Elf Clan. The ones who supported Forcythia were by and large NOT the same people who donated heavily to the founding of those sims, and not those who rented lands the first several months during which additional sims were purchased (with a very few exceptions). In addition, a portion of her membership were known alts of some of those who initially joined her. Like Second Life itself, support of her group was greatly exaggerated (SL claims over 3 million “residents”, although it is a well- known fact that over 90% of those never log in, are alts or “camping chair” identities used to boost traffic figures). Point made: not heavy support figures for Forcythia’s group.
So no, despite Forcythia’s face-saving claims and propaganda, her new group did not consist of the Elf Clan members who worked to purchase those sims in the first place. They consisted of Forcythia, a small core of close admirers, a small core of hate-Wayfinder trolls (such anti-authority people exist in any group, especially larger groups), and quite a few people caught in the middle, not sure of what happened, and unwilling to choose sides (and I do give them credit for at least that).
Regarding the way the lands were funded (and forgive me if I repeat anything here– writing on the fly before getting to tasks today): massive donations went toward the purchase of ElvenGlen. Those donations increased in the months that followed, as our group went from approximately 100 to over 600 members and became the largest non-nightclub group on the grid. Before ElvenGlen was purchased, I established a land group called Elf Haven (not to be confused with ElfHaven sim, a product of that land group– just loved that name). It was agreed between Forcythia and I that a combination of Elf Clan donations (including mine) along with the investment initially offered by her would be used to purchase the sim. I would design and implement a rental and merchant system which would then be used to pay off her investment. I would be responsible for designing and building the sim and for primary management thereof (mainly because I had the time and building expertise and while she didn’t).
We both worked at land rentals, with her collecting all rent, merchant fees, and further SIM donations (event donations were my area). Since it was a privately owned land group, with me representing Elf Clan itself, she offered to split any “profits” with me after her investment was repaid. I declined on this, recommending we instead hold such funds for further growth if needed (thus, came about Elf Haven sim). I fulfilled my part of the bargain and she hers: the sim was purchased, I designed and built the majority of its features, and created a rental and merchant agreement which was designed to pay off sim tier at half-land capacity (yup, if half the land was rented, tier was met). The result? The sim was entirely rented before our first official opening day, and before the first tier payment was due. From day one, ElvenGlen was not only self-supporting but actually earned a bonus each month, that bonus to be applied to new sim purchases (which it was).
Bottom line: those sims were paid for by massive group donations (which continued from around January of 2005 until April of 2006), as well as land rentals and merchant fees, as had been agreed in our land group arrangement. Those donations and rentals were not made to Forcythia Wishbringer to use as she pleased– they were to Elf Clan for benefit and growth of the group and lands (and not for the takeover by another group. No matter what Forcythia’s group might achieve in the absense of Elf Clan, it can never wipe away the stain and dishonor of the manner in which it originated, the way its lands were obtained, nor the deeds it performed against Elf Clan in the process. Those lands were foudned on Elf Clan work– not the work of Forcythia’s group– and they were taken from Elf Clan WITHOUT GROUP PERMISSION OR GENERAL CONSENSUS. Forcythia did it the day she was removed as officer, of her own and singular will, then later supported by her core group of followers. That is not Elf Clan. Any claim to the contrary is self-deception. It is unfortunate that to this day, such claims deceive others as well.
So… to answer the question about who comprised Forcythia’s new group, no, it was not the same people under different leadership (ie, Elf Clan under a different name). Elf Clan continued to prosper on ElvenMyst and despite the initial loss to Forcythia’s group, grew to numbers greater than ever before, became more active than before and equalled or excelled our builds in ElvenGlen. With very few exceptions, those who chose to join Forcythia were largely those who knew little or nothing about early Elf Clan, the sim purchases and the way those lands had come to exist. With a few exceptions, they had little or no involvement in their funding.
That new group and lands didn’t include me, the Founder of Elf Clan. They didn’t follow the long-established Elf Clan Charter (although they borrowed from our foundation principles quite a bit) And since she immediately separated her sims from ElvenMyst (where Elf Clan governance had now settled), she definitely severed all ties with Elf Clan. So no matter how you slice it, she took lands funded by Elf Clan and established her own group thereon. There is no rationalization for such actions, no justification aside from drama and dishonor, no matter how much such is hidden or painted over by those with personal agendas in the matter. Five of the Elf Clan Titled published public statements in such regard. In the words of one very prominent and respected member, ‘Elf Clan was robbed.’ I don’t think I could put it any better. No matter how loudly or often members of Forcythia’s group claim otherwise, no matter how much propaganda and slander circulated– the history stands.
What amazed me in all this is that some people were so gullible (I guess that’s why propaganda works). I remember when she moved “her” sims away from ElvenMyst, people charged me with moving ElvenMyst and asked me why I was breaking up the Elves; it simply never occurred to them that Forcytha was responsible. Even when she started destroying Elf Clan builds and flattened ElvenGlen to the ground, it never occured to them that just might be wrong, that there might be some ethical considerations there. In these deeds she didn’t have the permission of Elf Clan, nor my permission. She didn’t put it to a “vote”… she just did it and had her cohorts assist her (and shame on them for taking it upon themselves to do so!). She intentionally destroyed a year and a half of Elf Clan history without any regard for its members, their feelings or their wishes in the matter. It was a typical hate response in classic drama-queen fashion, and there’s no painting over that fact. Most Elf Clan members saw that– and refused to have anything to do with her thereafter. Unfortunately, some were taken in by all the fog and actually supported her in such dishonorable activities.
Forcythia currently claims no problems with Elf Clan and that Elf Clan members are completely welcome in “her” lands (how generous). But people don’t seem to remember that she did everything in her power to wipe Elf Clan from those lands. While she now presents all sorts of “reasons” for doing so (some people are so good at politics), the evidence was there for anyone to see. Anyone could at any time have stood up and shouted, “This just isn’t right”. Unfortunately, those who did were personally attacked for such courage– and Linden Lab refusing to do so put the nail in the coffin. How sad.
Well, that’s as lengthy as I feel like being in this. Hope that answers your questions. No matter what claims are made in such matters, those who were involved know. Propaganda, slanders and lies may serve to cloud the truth– but the truth remains known by those who were there.
Elfish Pressleaf
Feb 16th, 2007
>>Zekeen Phoenix (another major contributor), and Schlitzie Martini (yes, the legendary orc and oddly enough the very first resident to set up on ElvenGlen) immediately announced refusal to support Forcythia’s actions. . .Both Zekeen Phoenix and Schlitzie Martini immediately moved their builds to ElvenMyst. Mean Golem<<
And yet, Zekeen Phoenix kept and still has a shop in Forcy’s ElvenGlen and all three are working with her to create a combat RP sim. Yep, they are not supportive of her at all. . .
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 16th, 2007
“Elfish”, I still have to wonder at why you have chosen not to use the name you were known as in Elf Clan. Whatcha hiding?
Zek is a businessman and his shop was right at ElvenGlen entry point. Agree with Forcy or not, it’s understandable he wouldn’t want to shut down one of his most trafficed locations. That doesn’t negate the fact that he moved his main shop– all 1024m of it– to ElvenMyst and wrote a public statement regarding Forcythia’s activities. I think “Elf Clan was robbed” leaves little doubt as to his opinion, do you? Now like many people, Zek is a generous person who tries to get along with people. So what he does in regard to Forcythia now that Elf Clan no longer supports Second Life is his business.
But as far as Zekeen working “with” Forcythia in establishing an RPG sim– there are things involved there that you’re obviously unaware of (or if you are, you’re choosing to not mention). That has nothing to do with what happened back at the split, nor Zekeen’s opinion of what happened. The same thing about Mean Golem and Schlitzie Martini, who are partners with Zek. The fact that Schlitzie immediately moved his primary home– the Orc Embassy– ElvenGlen’s first residentail build– from ElvenGlen to ElvenMyst leaves little doubt as to his loyalty– or his opinion of Forcythia’s actions. Mean Golem set up a 2048m residence in ElvenMyst and has cursed the “enemy” to this very date for busting up the Elven society. So I think the facts are pretty much established, “Elfish”.
What people do now that Elf Clan has ceased support of Second Life is their business, isn’t it? Some people will choose to support those sims simply because there is no alternative at this time. We knew that when we closed Elf Clan. When Elf Clan decided to cease financial support of Linden Lab– I ceased caring about Second Life and whether it succeeds or fails, and what “Elves” do on Second Life. My attentions are primarily focued on Real life now, and I tell ya, as much fun as I had on SL– RL is better. All that I care about now is Elf Clan’s history and reputation in the face of people who keep slaming it with fraudulent statements and propaganda.
Myself, I do have one question to you: why is it that whenever someone writes something nice about me or Elf Clan, you and “Heather” find it necessary to show up and badmouth it all? What is your problems? If Forcythia’s group is all that wonderful– what do you care about what Elf Clan used to do? What exactly do you think your rants accomplish? (Especially when I and others blow them apart with factual information the moment you post them). Nothing more than attitude, if you ask me. The fact that despite prior mentions, you both keep your Elf Clan identities hidden, tells me you’re not on the up and up.
Elfish Pressleaf
Feb 17th, 2007
As much as you like to pretend, you don’t blow anything apart. You have never provided backing for your “facts.” Also, contrary to your 90/10 lie, most of the active members of Elf Clan joined Elf Circle. Are you really going to claim you had 600 active members? Most of your “Guard” left, either for Elf Circle or all together. The one active member that stayed with you went to Forcy’s land to build her a castle the day you cleared out the old one.
As for secrets, you built a history based on keeping things secret. You wanted to keep secret your reason for demoting Forcy, but she wouldn’t have it. You sure don’t talk about the girl you slept with and then banned for having the nerve to tell someone she had done so. You banned people for disagreeing with you, how small a person is that? You want to micromanage every aspect and when you can’t control someone you attempted to remove them. No, having you put forward as some great person isn’t right. Other people made Elf Clan great and it is now being proved you where not important to it. You stood on the shoulders of giants who backed you with money, time, and effort. Now they are moving forward free of your shackles. You have shown you could not do it on your own. The future is much brighter for everyone here without you and your ego.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 18th, 2007
And in all that mouthing… still “Elfish” hides behind a fake name. Guess you don’t want your own dishonrable deeds exposed on these blogs, eh? And what strikes me as icing on the cake– you apparently don’t even know enough about Elven lore to realize that “Elfish” isn’t valid terminology (kinda considered amateurish, to be frank). Buffoonery knows no limits.
I’d reply further, but bottom line, you’re a pompous liar who hides behind a bogus name. All you are doing is trolling and bringing nothing to the table. Not much more to be said than that.
Shaydin
Feb 19th, 2007
Way,it’s been a long time..and why haven’t you left SL yet? still see you on a lot and found builds owned by you in a new sim…
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 19th, 2007
Shaydin! How you been?
Actually, although I’m hardly ever on SL these days, I drop in every once in a while to visit old friends. (I ceased supporting Linden Lab– but my friends are still around).
Since a few of my best friends hang around Mean’s sim from time to time, I dropped in there (it’s progressing nicely, isn’t it?). However, I don’t believe there are a “lot of builds” owned by me there– just one. Put it there mainly as a “housewarming gag” for Mean… and I guess he decided to leave it.
Took me about an hour to build it, so no big loss of time there.
But for the most part, I don’t have much to do with SL these days. RL rocks.
Yichard Muni
Jan 1st, 2008
One year later: all the sad omen above had proven false. Elf Circle is better than ever, in both land, members, beauty, peace and repute. Even SL has become a reference surpassing all others by far. We owe this to our benevolent Queen Forcytia, who is a kind person, not some kind of ego. We owe this to our constant work for keeping the peace in Elf Circle. We owe this to all the gentle and clever persons who come in and share what they bring gentle, spiritual, or beautiful.
One and a half year, it is what it took to regain the losses of this terrible and futile war. Groups died, projects were abandonned, members were scattered, all this by the fault of egocentric thinking. Sure we shall take great care that such a thing will never happen again.
Yichard Muni
Feb 14th, 2009
hehe, still not happened
Yichard Muni
Feb 14th, 2009
oh, one bad omen has become true: SL has done his first step toward failure (repression of the open spaces, nov 2008, 4400 sims lost on 26000, not accounting people chased away by this grief).
But Elf Circle is still doing well. The only limit it encountered is that people had a desire for diversity, so that it has now a family, for which many members and resources left: “The Green” and “The Faery Crossing” mainly.