Another World…Kinda?
by prokofy on 13/12/06 at 10:36 pm
A gallery opening…that isn’t in Second Life.
By Prokofy Neva, Dept. of Planets, Solar Systems, Universes, Multiverses and Omniverses
Wait. I’m pinching myself. I got something in my mailbox from this company called Caligari which makes hugely expensive 3-D stuff which I never looked at too closely, until they…announced an event in a virtual world (wow…some OTHER company does that???). Another world, 3-D…ish. With spaces where you go and “collaborate with others,” and even have “forums” and “an art gallery.”
Not There. Not Here (and we all know where Here is!) but a place called trueSpace.
Now, I know, I know, it might be just some glorified Flash in a browser. Or it might be some cludgy thing. I have no idea. I tried to download it, and was out of luck. First, it gave me runtime and library errors and their forums sucked and I couldn’t find help (why are these worlds always like that).
Then my usual technique, googling in search of some geek-to-go type of place couldn’t help. CS was closed. Hmmm. Well, then they had the samples in RAR files. I should be able to open those, but got a face-full of wierd code when I did.
They’re having a gallery opening tomorrow, it’s free to download and see, the artist’s name is Zachary Humway. You even click on a thing that is like a SLURL. I can’t get the game working but maybe someone else could go — I haven’t been this intrigued since I found that the sims in ATITD could walk off their parcels and grow flax lol.
Appearance mode? Calisthenics? In a brightly-lit, comfortable-looking and possibly non-laggy place?
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 13th, 2006
As a huge fan of Caligari Truespace (I have been using it since version 1), I have watched the evolution of the TruePlace. It is definitely cool – the picture with the avatar models in it were misleading though. When you are actually in one of the spaces, you are represented by a little eyeball camera, not an avatar. Truespace is also not a cheap program – to make content, you need TrueSpace, which is about $600 in its latest version. It is an interesting concept though. The spaces are interesting to walk around (though it is in a first person mouselook kind of way), but they aren’t very interactive yet. Hopefully Caligari will expand the concept further – having a free standing space that anyone can sign into and explore is very nice, and to have the full creative resources of TrueSpace available to create the content for it.
BTW, Prokofy, a RAR file is an archive like ZIP – you need to use WinRAR to open them.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 13th, 2006
I unzipped the RAR file, champ, I *do* know how to a) click on a file b) look at my winzip c) unzip it d) chose an application and e) see that I don’t have an application that opens it, and get a face full of code. See? It’s so easy to assume others are stupid, Cristiano, and I’m not.
The idea that a little eyeball camera, not an avatar would be your interaction with the world is interesting to me. I’d just like to try it I guess. Then…what is the avatar *for*?
I said it was hugely expensive — I think it was indeed $495 or $695, but they are now offering this free entry to it for this event, see, that’s why I thought I’d try to see what it was doing.
I guess I, like many, are looking to greener pastures where things don’t take forever to rez — they are just “there”. Where there is no lag, and angst, and trouble — but the stuff is just crisply *there*. But where I don’t have to play a goddman game, shooting stuff, questing stuff, where I can just either sit and talk, make a presentation, show somebody a picture or a link, etc. So I just want to see how others are solving these problems.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 13th, 2006
Prokofy, get the fuck over yourself. You need to use WinRAR to open it, not Winzip – that is why you got the weird code. I did not assume you were dumb, but you have to be your usual hostile bitch self. You were the one who couldn’t open it, so you obviously missed something.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 13th, 2006
Also, exploring the spaces is free – it is just the content creation tools that are expensive, though definitely worth the money.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 13th, 2006
1. I have WinRAR — my son uses it — it is in the list, it is available to be used, it can open a file like this, I can see the icon, it is there, and yes, I got a face-full of code. Sorry to disappoint, I know you were hoping for a big gotcha moment. I may not have something downloaded right.
2. The world itself client seems to be free. The tools to make stuff is not. Now there is a very interesting model. They make the geeks pay up the big freight to make the stuff and upload it (not sure if they can sell it). They might make the rest of us tourists have free accounts to go in and gawk at the geek stuff.
Cocoanut Koala
Dec 14th, 2006
Let’s not forget the two (two, count ‘em!) real-life museum events held in TSO!
coco
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 14th, 2006
Prokofy,
You are the one who said you used Winzip. If you couldn’t open the file inside the archive, you probably did not have the TruePlace player installed – the files open in it if you have it installed on your system.
As far as selling content, that is not at all what this is about – it is really just the latest incarnation of 3d spaces like Adobe Atmosphere (which Adobe gave up on for some reason). A lot of really interesting stuff is going on with SketchUp as well.
Caligari has always been kind of an also ran in the 3d rendering market, but their program is fantasic and significantly cheaper than competing products like Maya and 3d Studio. It will be interesting to at least see how far they take the concept.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 14th, 2006
>You are the one who said you used Winzip. If you couldn’t open the file inside the archive, you probably did not have the TruePlace player installed – the files open in it if you have it installed on your system.
Cristiano, I know you’d like to believe yourself to be Master of the Metaverse, but please, go over it again, shall we:
oI have TruPlace player downloaded, and installed — gosh, that was HARD and SUCH rocket science *cough*
oI have WinZip — always did
oI have WinRar–yep, it’s there, not my thing, but someone else put it here, a relative, my son, dunno
o Did not work
Sorry to disappoint. Things don’t always work as planned. I imagine the problem is related to the installation, as I already explained in my original post — I get a runtime error no. 14000 and library file errors and there could be folder issues or some goddamn thing. The customer service email on their site, which I wrote too, just returned to me saying “invalid recipient” despite having the correct spelling and address.
I know there is interesting stuff going on with Sketch-Up. I do read Walker’s blog. But it is just not easy for people like me to use. It’s just too hard to learn. This thing really looked much easier for dummies — but like so many things, it was busted for me.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 14th, 2006
SketchUp is the content creation tool, like Trusepace, not the viewer for the end user. Caligari Truespace is actually a lot more complicated that SketchUp to create content in- SketchUp is one of the easiest to use drawing/3d programs I have ever seen. It is only slightly more complex than the building tools in the Sims 2. There is a corresponding viewer you can download to view and explore SketchUp content, as well as Google Earth, both of which are very easy to use, and much more mature than the TruePlace viewer.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 14th, 2006
Yeah, duh, I got it. Like, Walker hasn’t blogged about this as has Snoopy? Sketchup, dear know-it-all Cristiano, is a tool that now has a bunch of ready-made uploadable buildings and stuff. It does have content. Duh? Google Earth I believe is the viewer, but I could be wrong. The point is, you use them in tandem.
Sketch-Up isn’t as easy to use as Second Life, BTW, and this has been user tested by 14-year-old boys I know ROFL. Honestly, the hortatory tone that you all take with your definitive pronunciations. Instead of saying with even an ounce of humility “My experience is X, others my find Y” — there’s the Edict from on High.
Try to get over yourself Cristiano, for just one second. Sims 2 is easier for anybody to use if they were already used to Sims 1 etc. I got used to it easily and loved it until the computer crashed and I couldn’t get the discs loading right again and finally gave up. But in principle, it works great.
Sketch-Up is NOT that way — for some people — maybe for many? There are all kinds of variables. Mileage may differ.
Again, with your obsession on the technical side here, you are missing the big point of my post. Something ELSE besides Second Life has a gallery opening in it!!!!
I’ve never heard of a gallery opening in There, have you? Perhaps there have been many; I’m just saying it has not been part of the media buzz of the last year (we had a gallery open in a mixed-reality event in SF in TSO before SnoopyB was even born, of course, so I am so not impressed with SL).
Try to get the gist here. trueSpace looks like it has a handy little downloader to just pop in and see a gallery tomorrow. I couldn’t get it to work due to runtime errors. Could someone else out there try, and go to this thing and let us know, is this for real, or what?
Seola Sassoon a.k.a Random Writer
Dec 14th, 2006
“”"”BTW, Prokofy, a RAR file is an archive like ZIP – you need to use WinRAR to open them.”"”"
“”"”I unzipped the RAR file, champ, I *do* know how to a) click on a file b) look at my winzip c) unzip it “”"”
Don’t worry Christiano, I saw it too. You’re not nuts like Prok is trying to portray.
marilyn murphy
Dec 14th, 2006
ok. out of all this i get that this stuff is easy/hard to get to and use and its all easy/hard to work once u get there depending on your computer expertise or not. my brain explodes.
simply. please. is anyone in competition with LL for my dollar? is there anyone/company trying to work out a genuinely working system where i can have a nice avatar and be social and run a little business? where the infrastructure works and is not breaking down all the time and things just are as they are supposed to be?
i would think the first true offering of this type would make a fortune.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 14th, 2006
Prokofy,
You are impossible to have a conversation with, you get so freaking hostile. Yes, it is interesting that they are doing a gallery event using TruePlace. I downloaded the latest version and installed it, and explored some of the shared online spaces and downloaded some of the offline ones as well. It really does not amount to more than being able to explore a 3d scene – there is no interaction really. However, it does use a stripped down version of Caligari’s rendering engine, so the scenes do look nice once they load and it seems it does support a lot of the advanced TrueSpace features. It also has voice and text chat features, which is interesting. I don’t think there is any danger of this becoming anything like SL, but the ability for 3d artists to create a space to allow others to explore their work is interesting.
As far as other places having gallery openings and such things, the only thing I can think of is there were some things done with Adobe Atmosphere like that. Unfortunately, Adobe discountinued Atmosphere for some reason – I suppose because it never caught on. Hopefully TruePlace won’t suffer the same fate, as it does have potential.
Urizenus
Dec 14th, 2006
Marilyn, I think a lot of people are working on projects that will be successors to SL, but it will be difficult for them to be successful, even if their technology is better. The problem with social spaces is that they are are much stickier than they would be if the issue was technology alone. There are still people who stay in TSO. For that matter, all the old MUDs are still perking along. It will take a few brave souls to go out and colonize some new place that is largely devoid of content and build it up. Your SL experience all over again.
Urizenus
Dec 14th, 2006
Christiano, do you think Truespace is worth the $650 investment? That is, is this going to be a tool for virtual world construction in the near future?
Prokofy Neva
Dec 14th, 2006
Cristiano, you are the impossible one, coming on to the comments of a simple news story urging people to check out a new thing, and posturing and strutting with your knowledge, your “been there done that,” and even your persistently rude insistence that I somehow can’t figure out something like opening a WinRAR file — especially when in the original story, I explained the problem of having a download that kept giving me runtime errors — something that could be my own individual problem, our could be a bug. Why the burning necessity to trump someone else, to flaunt your own expertise, to be, in short, a dick?
And the claim of trueSpace isn’t over-hyped like TSO. Yet, they claimed there was an opening of a gallery. That claimed collaboration is possible. So I do think it warrants checking out to what extent people collaborate and meet in real time. Especially if what they appear to claim is an EVENT where in fact collaboration may have been arranged somehow. And as you’ve subsequently reported, if they have text and chat and sharing, then yes, marilyn, this might be the world you’re looking for — but it isn’t ready yet. It’s “stripped down” and perhaps in 3 years it might be relevant. On the other hand, if you are stick to death of crashing and scandals and hate in SL, you might enjoy even a stripped down world where you can still create and socialize.
Seola, I appreciate your gloating gotchas, and again, I will repeat that they are mispaced. Please read this website if you are having difficulties grasping this open knowledge, that you cannot claim a secret access to: http://www.win-rar.com/ — such as to play gotcha and protect Cristiano’s right to be an ass.
I unzipped the file in Winzip. Looked at it. Saw it didn’t open properly. Duh. It’s a one-click thing. Didn’t find the program. Realized it was a WinRAR. Like…duh? why is that so hard to understand. I have these capacities on my computer as someone else installed the WinRAR. Yet it didn’t open. Maybe it expired? Maybe I still didn’t do something right? In any case, it was NOT for lack of understanding DER the difference between WinRAR and WinZip, and needed a hectoring lesson from Cristiano, way off the topic, on these really barn-burning, vital distinctions about which only he and you can know, and wink and nod to each other in forums with great gloating glee at the idiocy of the non-technical. God, do the Geeks Gotta Go.
IN fact, even in installing it and *trying* to open it I got the run time errors.
What, exactly is your point? That it is too compressed a version of the story to say “”I unzipped the RAR file, champ, I *do* know how to a) click on a file b) look at my winzip c) unzip it.”
But…that’s exactly what you do, duh. If you attempt to use WinZip on a WinRar file because you haven’t realized that the one-click will open it, it does open it in winzip, give you code, but you can also see the unopened file there two again, and then select the program to view it and open it properly. Why is this some “exposure of a terrible idiotic faux pas”? It isn’t. I clicked, I unzipped it, then I saw, oh, no, it doesn’t work that way, and looked for WinRAR — which I know I have. It still didn’t open, and I got errors. The entire installation was corrupt.
Can you admit that in fact you have no special technical expertise, and that I’m not some especially stupid dummy, but that the file just didn’t work? Honestly, you gloating idiots should be slapped when you do stuff like that.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 14th, 2006
Prokofy,
You continue to prove what a raving bitch you are without any input from me. It’s very funny to read. I like being able to push the button that causes your pathological inability to ever admit being wrong to flare up and have you fall all over yourself with explanations. God forbid someone give you a suggestion – there was no condescension in mentioning that WinRAR was needed for the file since it is not a common file format on web sites compared to zip. The main problem is you can’t take input from anyone. You know everything and never get anything wrong.
I don’t need to admit not having any techinical expertise, when in fact, I do have extensive technical expertise, Prokofy. I have been using Caligari Truespace on and off for the past 10 years, I have worked with many online environments including Caligari’s (I have trying out TruePlace (now renamed TruePlay since an early beta of it), and I am a software developer, so yes, I do have technical expertise in this area that you lack. I never claimed you were dumb, so I don’t know why you are blustering like a stuffed pig just because someone commented on your story. It does entertain me though to see how huffy you get.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 14th, 2006
Urizenus,
It is tough to make a call on whether or not it is worth it. I would say that if you have some other use for Truespace, then the potential to use it to also experiment with shared spaces is worthwhile. I don’t think I would recommend buying it just for that, however. It has a steep learning curve, as all 3d rendering programs do, and a pretty unusual interface (though positioning,rotation and scaling would be very familiar to SL users). I will definitely say it has some interesting potential, it all hinges on how much Caligari invests in it. I’m not sure how much farther they can go with their base product as it is very mature anyway, so maybe they will focus more development on TruePlay. The response in their forums has been really positive.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 14th, 2006
I like being able to push the button that causes your pathological inability to ever admit being wrong to flare up and have you fall all over yourself with explanations. God forbid someone give you a suggestion – there was no condescension in mentioning that WinRAR was needed for the file since it is not a common file format on web sites compared to zip. The main problem is you can’t take input from anyone. You know everything and never get anything wrong.
No, there is never any good will and helpfullness when your admitted goal is “I like being able to push the button” — that is an obvious show of hand right there, Cristiano, you should be embarrased. Your malicious intentions are always revealed. When you want to play gotcha and show somebody up, you don’t make good arguments, and your facile lack of good will is obvious. So you can’t be serious about a RAR file; you’re merely trying to hector and play gotcha.
And no, Cristiano, it’s not that I’m somehow hysterical about not knowing something; that’s not it at all. If I didn’t understand what happened when I pressed a file in WinZip and it unzipped but there were no other options, I could say, oh, ok, I see. Obviously it would involve matter of pride or saving of face to say, “Oh, I got it, not WinZip but WinRAR, whoops.” Who wouldn’t be able to say that? Someone who could NOT say that might indeed be a pathological liar incapable of self-examination — and you’d be justified in thinking them a loon. But again, sorry to disappoint — I’m not that person.
Seriously, Cristiano, I assure you that not only do I know what a RAR file is, I’ve opened tons of them in my lifetime.
And, with this TrueSpace thing, as unfamiliar as it is, it is clearly marked as a WinRAR file. You see that clearly as an icon. And I’ve been playing games for something like 15 years now. WinRAR files have been part of a number of them.
Example:
http://www.personal-computer-tutor.com/sims2/install.htm
“Downloading and Installing Stuff in The Sims2
for more free tutorials on computer stuff other than the Sims2. Become a … The program I use for rar files is WinRAR which you can download here. …
http://www.personal-computer-tutor.com/sims2/install.htm – 42k”
This is something my kids had dl’d to deal with Sims2 which they play a lot more than me, and a site they used — it happened to be reinstalled on this computer — I hadn’t bothered when I fixed this new one up after a crash. It’s been a while since I’ve bothered monkeying with my Sims innards, but this is exactly where RAR becomes relevant — go look at the tree of folders yourself.
And even for work, I get WinRAR files from some of the countries/jobs I deal with.
Unzipping in WinZip (or another thing I like better called Unzip Wizard) is one thing; opening/unzipping in WinRAR is another thing. If you unzip in RAR — you can see your mistake. It’s another type of compressed file — and you’ll need to unzip it with the other utility and open it up with the right program. But…the very installation was messed up anyway. I *did* get it open. And I followed through all the installations. But then I stll got errors (runtime and library errors).
You are so concerned to try to show me up as some technical dummy and fucktard supposedly unable to admit I’m a dummy that you’re just not realing: this is not rocket science.
Anybody who got used to making things for the Sims offline games and modding even TSO and putting things into the game of Sims2 is someone who will simply be very familiar with all this stuff because they needed to learn it to play these games, not because they are tekkie smarties.
That’s just what you can’t hear — that these games and worlds forced many people like me who would never have dared to change a registry key or download and install something into their computer to become quite facile in these things.
So I totally resent constantly having to listen to know-it-alls. This stuff is repeat: not rocket science. It’s rote information. All you’ve done is learned more rote information. This makes you neither smart, knowledgeable, wise, or even useful – you’ve merely mastered rote material like a monkey.
>I have been using Caligari Truespace on and off for the past 10 years, I have worked with many online environments including Caligari’s (I have trying out TruePlace (now renamed TruePlay since an early beta of it), and I am a software developer, so yes, I do have technical expertise in this area that you lack.
If you were in good faith, and IF you had knowledge, there’d be one proper thing to do here: to explain how to get rid of runtime error no. 14000 or whatever. That’s it.
No, I’m not blustering. I am patiently laying out the facts to you to try to get you to see that your initial stance of bad faith, and desire to “push buttons” reveals your true agenda — to be a dick. Stop it, Cristiano.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 14th, 2006
Prokofy,
You just gave a perfect example of your overexplanations, filled with absolute and utter bullshit to once again to give the illusion that you know what you are talking about. It is absolutely hysterical. I don’t intentionally push your buttons, but I would be lying if I said I did not get some enjoyment out of your constant overreactions to things. It is such a well worn pattern that I could set my watch by you having one of your blustering meltdowns that result in another screed and lots of hard drive space dying.
It amazes me how much time you spend trying to degrade other people. I have never tried to attack your intelligence (your sanity, yes, your intelligence, no). Software development and programming is something that does require talent, intelligence, and skill, just as all kinds of creative skills do (including writing). I don’t think I am superior because of my skills in this. I don’t think you are dumb for lacking them. You, on the other hand, think you are so superior to a lot of people, when you are not in the slightest. You may be intelligent, but you’re really fucking ignorant, which is the sad part.
I don’t need to stop anything, Prokofy. Nothing has certainly stopped you from being a raving bitch, so I simply push back against your nauseating barrage of bullshit, as do many others. Did you ever notice that common denominator, Prokofy? You are always at the center of it, not me.
By the way, I am not Caligari’s technical support – I don’t know what some random numbered error message means. Based upon the limited amount of what you said, I suggested something, and you freaked out like a mad cow. That is your problem, no one else’s.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 14th, 2006
PS – quit fucking turning on italics.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 14th, 2006
Before you come back with “I’m not turning on italics, how could I do that??” – you are doing it by inserting with no space after the i. I turned off in my last comment – quit turning it on.
Cristiano Midnight
Dec 14th, 2006
See, just trying it even with a space in it turned it back on. You are using [ i ] with <> instead of [ ]
Urizenus
Dec 14th, 2006
Christiano and Prok, would you two just get a room and consumate this relationship?
Crimey, no one needs to see this love/hate thing play out in the comments thread.
Plastic Fan
Dec 15th, 2006
The most disturbing thing in this whole argument between Prok and Chris, is the horrible realization that Prokofy has progeny!
If there was ever a case for forced sterilization, I think Prokofy would be the top candidate in most peoples lists. And yes Prok, I know that you are actually a woman in RL.