The Alphaville Herald

47 Responses to “Elemental Viral Marketing in the Metaverse”

1. 

   Prokofy Neva
   

   Dec 17th, 2006
   

   Wow. Amazing. I mean. WOW. Have you thought about the ramifications of this? Fly around the world all over, shop by merely clicking on people or things (they could do it with things too) you like.

   I’m chuckling that this geeky dude Kage Seraph doesn’t realize he has the absolute killer app on his hands that saves the Big Business dinosaurs trapped on hidden islands from irrelevance; which saves the old FIC boutique stores trapped on old core sims or SLBoutique.com from irrelevance; and, as you said, in one fell swoop, just put an end to the land business model…unless of course people figure out that clubs, events, venues etc. where people can come and still do their click2buy will start to be highly valued.

   Amazing! Amazing how the rents in our world start as tiny tears and the a hurricane blows through them.

   I’m thinking several things about this:

   a) yes, it will be laggy and wonky trying to update stuff — but the only people who are obsessive about updating stuff are geeky gadget makers and the geeks who buy them — most things are one-off — I mean, I’m not quite getting what’s to update on a vehicle? So buy a thing using the HUD, don’t update it? Buy another thing lol?

   b) the script that enables a HUD to pop up inworld and you to click and pay an avatar or vendor-type object should really be opensourced. Hey, I’m all for open source on public utilities that form the fabric of the world like this. Like notecard giver script.

   But like the rental scripts before it that kept only a few early scripters like Moonshine Herbst and Hank Ramos monopolizing and getting a piece of every single rental transaction, the people making these HUDS are likely to get greedy and not let it into the wild, but charge obscene amounts to buy it copyable, or usurers’ amounts to have it sold with 2 or 5 percent commissions or more.

   It will be so fascinating to see what they do, these geeks who pretend always that they are for “information wants to be free” and all the rest and who say “everything can be copybotted,” but what they’ll do with a script they’ve designed, and a HUD, that can radically transform marketing and read the 2 million SL much faster.

   c) I’m shaking my head again at how brilliant this is — in the “why didn’t I think of it” sort of way! I’ll bet lots of people are saying that. Well, perhaps the script is easy to make and we’ll see other versions? Updating/not updating/connection to website/not etc.

   >As SL grows toward more millions of accounts, it’s nice that folks in the scripting community are still like a small town. Very cool stuff.

   Another example of my point about how you can’t say the problem with libsecondlife is “a few bad eggs”.]

   So, while it’s great that the Elemental is something that as a vehicle is a thing that produces income to sustain people in Uganda…ok…let’s here about the script itself that runs this HUD thing…open sourced? Not? If not, why not?

   I imagine our friends at the Eye-Hand Lab are going to sit up and bark at this and may GOM it. That is, if they don’t break it in the next patch.

   Kudos to you, Pixeleen, for covering the single most important story in Second Life and the Metaverse and maybe even the real world, too, in 2006!
2. 

   Jesse Malthus
   

   Dec 17th, 2006
   

   I think the idea is really cool, but it’d need some Linden help to make it such as you can pay a creator directly through an object without requiring the dreaded PERMISSION_DEBIT.
   Kudos to Pixeleen for the well written article and Kage for the awesome device, I’ll be sure to check it out when I get inworld.
3. 

   Urizenus
   

   Dec 17th, 2006
   

   yeah the Elemental nice, but it’s not as sweet as my virtual Nissan Sentra which looks *just* like the car in my uncle Fred’s driveway and has the good sense to always stay on the ground and not morph and shit.

   (buy seriously, great job KS!)
4. 

   Prokofy Neva
   

   Dec 17th, 2006
   

   it’d need some Linden help to make it such as you can pay a creator directly through an object without requiring the dreaded PERMISSION_DEBIT.

   well, currently you can right-click on object set to for-sale, and there is no PERMISSION_DEBIT involved in setting it up. But that means having to leave stuff out for sale, and think of the permissions set on each copy of it out, i.e. not on a vendor.

   And PERMISSION_DEBIT comes up for things like a rental box which I put out to be a payment-receiving object, constantly able to take payments as distinct from a for-sale object that may sell one original or a copy endlessly.

   This HUD is different, isn’t it, in that it is using the HUD l ike BlogHud and other HUDS to deal with sending objects, recording transactions, etc.

   The point is, even if it still has PERMISSION_DEBIT somewhere in its food chain, it has just made viral marketing much more possible. Otherwise, you would have to rent/own/squat on more land and put out more individual objects. This way, you just ride the vehicle all over. And they’ll figure out how to do it on attachments, prim hair, boots perhaps?
5. 

   Kage Seraph
   

   Dec 17th, 2006
   

   Kage here,

   Hi Jesse! Thanks, man. =) And thanks to Pixeleen for being so kind. <3

   Hi Prokofy! I think you raised a couple of interesting points.
   >>Kage Seraph doesn’t realize he has a killer app on his hands.

   I think Jesse raised a good point above– this simple little system doesn’t handle money transactions at all. It just passes a free HUD+vehicle to interested folks. I’ve honestly never scripted anything that handles money so I don’t know if this kind of thing can become the killer app that you describe above.

   >>I’m not quite getting what’s to update on a vehicle?

   Mostly fixing bugs and adding new features. I get a kick out of adding “zOMG wouldn’t that be kewl” kind of geeky extra features. That puts me squarely in the “geeky dude” camp. =) I figure if I like a feature, then maybe somebody out there might like it too, thus the whole update and distribution server setup (which is really a basic, low key setup).

   >>the script that enables a HUD to pop up inworld and you to click and pay an avatar or vendor-type object should really be opensourced.

   I hadn’t thought about this, but I don’t see why I couldn’t share the server setup I’m running. I’m going a zillion different directions at the moment, so if you want the scripts’ sourcecode, just message me inworld and I’ll send them along. Again, I don’t know about the money side of things. I think SLBoutique or one of those is demoing an inworld shopping HUD. Not sure.

   >>Another example of my point about how you can’t say the problem with libsecondlife is “a few bad eggs”.

   I’m not sure what you mean here? My nuance-and-inflection gauge has succumbed to my fatigue, so I’m a bit confused here.

   >>The script itself that runs this HUD thing…open sourced? Not? If not, why not?

   Sure, I can opensource it. It really is pretty simple and for me at least, saving work.
6. 

   Razen Nefarious
   

   Dec 17th, 2006
   

   It really is a great idea and could save a ton of time for shoppers. We’d be interested in it over on Motorati for the Solstice but I’d like to figure out a way to make it so you can be charged if you want a copy.

   We have a lot of car dealers on our land and I don’t want to be giving out Pontiac’s and killing the market for all the other guys.

   Kudo’s though to the maker, Prof is right, he’s a genius for thinking of this.
7. 

   Cristiano Midnight
   

   Dec 17th, 2006
   

   With all due respect to both Kage and Pixeleen, Prokofy, as usual, you are batshit insane. This quote is so over the top:

   “Kudos to you, Pixeleen, for covering the single most important story in Second Life and the Metaverse and maybe even the real world, too, in 2006!” – Prokofy Neva

   Um, you are an idiot. This type of thing has been going on for a long time in SL. The best example I can think of was the ROAM device, which was distributed through word of mouth, and you subscribed to it directly through the device. It even paid referral fees to the original users. Other products have been distributed this way in SL as well. It is basic viral marketing 101. I don’t know why you think you’re onto the next coming of Christ, but as usual, you just looking like a blubbering idiot who doesn’t know the first thing about what she is talking about.

   Cristiano
8. 

   Prokofy Neva
   

   Dec 17th, 2006
   

   Oh, ok, I see what you mean. Kool Aided again! But even if it only distributes free things, that might be ok too. Could this be a solution to everyone’s fussing about freebie selling?
   Because the owner can see a trail of who gets it. I don’t always think that’s a good thing — I don’t oppose freebie selling because if someone doesn’t click off “no transfer,” it’s their funeral. But I am just thinking out loud here.

   I’ve always subscribed to Karl Popper’s notion that the essence of an open society is the right to be able to mount unsupportable theses.

   So, ok I must be an idiot. But, see, that’s how it works Cristiano, people who are clueless and stupid find something important and very interesting for the world, because tekkies are cynical, literal, and blinkered as a result. I’m excited about this HUD. I think it’s great. The idea that you can configure it, that updated stuff can come on it — what’s not to like?

   Name ONE PRODUCT that is on the market NOW and relevant that is distributed in this way? Hello?

   I realize Timeless Prototype and Toneless Tomba and people like that have updatable products, too. It isn’t sold through a HUD.

   And I realize that various animations are sold with HUDS now — but they are sold in stores out of vendors. This involves clicking on the object itself.

   Oh, and I see what’s going on here — Flipper made such a script for delivering *purchased* things and of course he’s unlikely to wish to open-source it. I see.

   Hey, everybody, work on the concept of a HUD that distributes things with payments!

   Kage, in terms of sending me the script, well, it doesn’t make sense, I won’t be able to do anything sensible with it.

   ROAM was one of the clunkiest things on 2 legs. I struggled with it and couldn’t get it to work — as did others.

   Now, this may have been a function of my connection, or the sims themselves. I remember Doc Nolan made the same complaint, and even Margaret Mfume, but it may be due to the fact that we all lived on those servers beyond the edge of the world down south (at one time the southernmost tip), Portage, Thomson, etc. where it just plain did not work (even x-flight ball didn’t work — NOTHING worked to fly to those damn servers until finally they filled in the void sims).

   ROAM got made obsolete by p2p.

   And the HUD that the Idea Island guy has up is supposed to be this sort of thing except…it isn’t quite. It requires somebody to wrestle with it and set it up.

   HUDS have been around for a long time. But not HUDS that deliver a product.

   Razen seems to have “gotten it”. But he doesn’t want to give out stuff for free. Well, he can give out dinky desktop models or snowglobes or trinkets with the HUD then. I just think it has tremendous value.

   And i’m not surprised to see the usual suspects line up to harass me.

   BTW, Kage, my point about libsecondlife is that you are all in a tiny little village and all are in each others’ back yards. Therefore for any of you in that group to say “I didn’t know” about 25 people in the group who crashed the grid repeatedly and were all expelled permanently from SL just defies the imagination.
9. 

   Razen Nefarious
   

   Dec 18th, 2006
   

   Ya, doing promo items with it to get you to our sim would actually be the smartest thing to do. It would have to be something entertaining yet harmless to the econmy.
10. 

    Urizenus
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    I was gonna add that products that get automatic updates is not new either. Didn’t Francis Chung’s Seburo Compact Exploder do that from day one?
11. 

    Kage Seraph
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    @Razen, shoot me a message inworld and I’ll send you the scripts I use. Sadly, I am way too busy to even try to angle for paid development of shopping HUDs, but you’re welcome to what I’ve got. =)

    Also, I really appreciate your sensitivity to the vehicle vendors at Motorati as regards the idea of a HUD-seller-thingie. It goes a long way to dispelling the fears that SL businesspeople have about RL corporate brands in SL, in my opinion. So, thanks for that.

    @Prokofy, great, thanks for the clarification on libSL. I’m a little sleep-deprived at the moment and was having trouble parsing your intent. =) I’ve only recently begun to follow the developments around the LibSL project, and I must say it’s fascinating to observe both the technological developments and the social developments around it.
12. 

    Harlequin Salome
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    Wow… just…wow. This marketing concept is sheer brilliance, no two bones about it. And everyone I know who has ne of these absolutely loves it. So hats off to the creator. *tips the hat* You are truely good at marketing, as well as crafting, good sir.
13. 

    Cristiano Midnight
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    LOL I love it, Prokofy. When you are wrong about something, you just won’t admit it. The ROAM was hardly clunky – all kinds of people used it and it was an extremely popular device. That is just your smokescreen when you are wrong and can’t admit it – you blame the product, not the moron lacking the technical skills to make toast. You and others at the Herald are always whining about firsts – yet here you are practically cumming over this concept, and it’s all been done before. It doesn’t detract from how cool Kage’s device is, but it just shows how wildly inconsistent you are. Freebies are supposed to be the evil downfall of SL. Oh wait, it’s only the freebies of people you don’t like. Got it. You’re a first class fucktard, Prokofy. Thank you for showing it in such stark relief yet again, old girl.
14. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    1) But ROAM *was* clunky. There aren’t “all kinds of people” just the usual lists of FIC and SIC who think they are all that. Only a few cognoscenti used it. It was too hard to keep loading. Using a landmark kept in your folders was so much easier. And then p2p came. I bet if you polled a sample of 1,000 people with 2004 birthdates, not even 20 percent would have it in inventory; probably of these 5 used it regularly. You’re so out of touch, Cristiano. So it’s not blaiming the product, but describing the product: clunky, hard to use.

    Frankly, most things that give you a laggy drop-down blue menu which keeps dropping down and you have to keep pressing “ignore” is annoying and clunky. The HUD is just smoother. It took me awhile to get used to HUDs — I don’t like that they block your view but some enable you to move them over to the side.

    2) I didn’t claim this HUD thing was *first* whatsoever. Nor did Pixeleen. It makes use of existing technology. But that’s often what something really cool that takes off *does*. It combines something obvious in a new way and makes it work.

    3) When I first wrote about this vehicle, I thought it *was* for sale — it wasn’t clear. NOw it turns out it’s not. I’m not against freebies. Freebies are loss-leaders. I give some away myself. But I’m a) against endless flooding of the world with freebies that undermine especially the newbie-to-newbie economy and b) also are designed merely to enhance the feel-good fake altruistic stance of many FIC mavens who just want people at their stores. They way overdo it. They should sell more for less. I really think newbies are suffocated with freebies that they load up on and it’s a real load on the asset server.

    And I oppose the harassing of those who sell freebies — the creators need to turn off transfer.

    A freebie that is a token or sample that is part of a marketing strategy of selling more expensive items makes sense. And many people do this successfully. There are way, way too many freebies though in the world, and it discourages newbies.

    It’s not about people I “don’t like”. It’s about people who flood the world with to many freebies. I’d urge Kage to find a way to sell his item even if only for $100. But if this freebie gets people to buy his more expensive stuff, that’s good, I suppose; I do think there is too much freebies.

    It’s always because you wildly infalte and mischaracterize my positions to start with that you can lurch around in such shocked, malicious glee that you have caught me in “hypocrisy” — when it’s nothing of the sort. My positions were always more nuanced and balanced to start with, you were just hallucinating and ranting like a stuck pig.

    I’m actually NOT a fucktard, Cristiano. I’m just a normal person who sees the lame-assed controlling, malicious, and manipulative work of the FIC like you (wow, WTG, pwning search like that and having people who want to be in your search clear each and every link through your real-time executive censorial hands).

    That’s all.
15. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    I was gonna add that products that get automatic updates is not new either. Didn’t Francis Chung’s Seburo Compact Exploder do that from day one?

    Uri, it’s not about the updates. Sure, lots of things update out there. It’s about updates that come through a HUD. What the updates did before was come into your inventory, and then have to be pulled from inventory. It was just a new object coming in. Or you went to their store and touched and object there to get the inventory.

    This has more ease of movement by being in a HUD, which gives it more customizing and management capacity.
16. 

    Inigo Chamerberlin
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    Hey Cris, wassup? Something NOT created by one of the elite annoying you?

    Well, shit happens – this thing is what SL is *supposed* to be all about, a resident coming up with a genuinely new concept – yes, it *is* new, talking about ROAM is ludicrous, ROAM was crude, unreliable, *expensive* (to run), and depended on Torley ramming it down people’s throats (especially via the forums where anyone else would have got pulled up for spamming a commercial product so much in inappropriate areas).

    I suspect the big problem – for some people – with the Elemental Multiform Craft, or rather it’s distribution method, is going to be that it rocks the boat for the established store/mall/slex/slb distribution system.
    Leaving aside the innovative nature of the control system and how the vehicle transforms, how well it works, the real innovation is the distribution system – zero overheads, smooth updating, and no need for a Linden pet to promote it.

    Now that *is* innovation.

    Sometimes SL is so crap I feel like giving up, then along comes something produced by a resident (I can’t say ‘like this’, because there hasn’t been anything like this before) and I can tell myself SL *is* working, there are people out there pushing the boundaries, improving things. And given the present state of SL this product is especially welcome!

    So, enough with the dismissive knocking please.
17. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, Inigo Chamerberlin
18. 

    Just a thought
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    :yawn: all I see is a new product that I may go out and get at some point.

    everything else? Big deal – if you know what you’re doing this kind of thing can be done.

    Freebie? good – there’s a distinct problem with peopleselling things to newbies that have nothing to start with at all. The more the better.
19. 

    Inigo Chamerberlin
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    Off your knees Prok!
    I’m supporting an excellent free product and a innovative distribution concept. We just happen to be aligned here, for once…

    Wake up ‘just a thought’! Go get one, try it out, I think you may be just a little bit impressed if you take the trouble to figure out the controls and play about a little.
    I have one sitting by the default LP at Lyonesse for interested parties or passers by to pick up.
20. 

    Just a thought
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    already picked one up Inigo – takes a lot to impress me.

    ‘s well built, I’ll give the maker that – I’ll reserve judgement until it’s well out of testing however.
21. 

    Dildo Baggins
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    Are you all on crack?

    There is NOTHING new about this at all. The flight system is the same old same old, the vehicle switching is nice but not rocket science, the server update system has been sone loooong ago. I do like the hud tho! Nice funky design!

    wtf is porkofy jacking off over it for? Of course it’s viral! it’s free you dumbshit!
22. 

    Inigo Chamerberlin
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    Hmmmm, OK Dildo, so, how come SL isn’t full of previous versions then?

    Yeah, plenty of stuff that delivers an update into your inventory, but – name an item that, besides rezing the device FROM the HUD, delivers, not a new HUD on update, but a new device into the existing HUD?

    Show me another vehicle that morphs from version to version like that?

    Now point me at another vehicle that wraps all that up in one nicely integrated package – for FREE please?

    Crack? No, but the SLH Editorial Meth Lab turns out a VERY high quality product too
23. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    >name an item that, besides rezing the device FROM the HUD, delivers, not a new HUD on update, but a new device into the existing HUD?

    Bingo.

    And I was merely genuflecting for a moment there, Inigo, because you were taking another brick from the Wall of the FIC, pointing out the obvious: that they are in the way of progress.

    As for morphing, of course, there is the Fairchangs’ Morpheus that does those things. Not in a HUD tho.
24. 

    Inigo Chamerberlin
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    HEY! For all you know *I* might be Fetid! In fact many, many people have accused me of this in the past.
    No idea why… Hell, I take a bath every year… well, *most* years anyway…

    Morpheus? Never heard of/seen it, still, I’m not a huge fan of SL vehicles these days, seeing how unstable sim borders have become – again… I must be out of touch or something.
25. 

    Cristiano Midnight
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    Inigo,

    It has nothing to do with who it was created by (not to mention, the very talented Kage Seraph is pretty elite in my book anyway). This is about Prokofy’s hypocrisy, nothing else. Prokofy has endlessly bashed the distribution of any kind of free items in the past, it is hilarious what a fucking hypocrite she is. It is a very cool, free product with a very nice HUD, but it is not some revolutionary distribution method. It’s just Prokofy being the wildly hypocritical windbag that she always is. Clearly, this was the most important story of 2006 IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.
26. 

    Timeless Prototype
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    Actually, I made a device AGES ago called the Sound Cloud. It was an attachment that looked like a white puffy cloud floating over your shoulder with a speaker icon in it.

    Anyone could touch it and receive a copy. When they wore it it would request a copy to put in its own contents so that it could spread like that again.

    The purpose of the Sound Cloud was to distribute the URL for a teamspeak server so that we could raise awareness of a Second Life teamspeak server. You could configure it so it would give the name of your own teamspeak server too.

    At the time I was not aware of ANYONE else who had made such a concept.

    Yes, it did spread virally. The problem with teamspeak we found was that people didn’t like running a separate piece of software and kept having to flip between Second Life and teamspeak to change channels etc.

    I look forward to voice directly embedded into Second Life.
27. 

    Timeless Prototype
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    PS. The Sound Cloud was completely open source.
28. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    Inigo summed up the problem: people rely on the FIC and Lindens to tout them, and they resent when others come along and do something and find a way to promote it *around* the FIC.

    Ages ago, there was not even HUD capacity in SL — is this on a HUD? That’s the one detail you neglect to explain. Because we’re not saying viral marketing is new — duh — we’re saying marketing it THIS WAY with the HUD is new.

    If you had a HUD in 2005, great! But…nobody heard about it. Or maybe nobody wanted a cloud of sound on their shoulder (?!).

    No, teamspeak was a bust. Skype groups work better for some people. It’s what they get used to, perhaps.

    How virally did it spread? Not very. I was here in 2005 and never heard of it. Oh, well. I’m sure that someone *else* could come along and say, but wait, I did that first! Listen to me me me! I know I do that when I see somebody else with a later birthdate claiming to have done something first.

    But..this story here wasn’t about being FIRST it was about combining things and being *effective* and selling 1000 in 36 hours — that’s quite an accomplishment.

    Once again, I do not “bash the distribution of free items,” I bash “the flooding of free items” and I bash “the persecution of those who sell freebies on transfer”. By constantly caricaturing my position, you start to believe your own propaganda. Furthermore, as I already stated, I thought this item was *for sale* when I first read about it — I’d prefer that it *was* for sale and that ways be found to sell it.

    I think this thread is great. It shows vividly what anyone is up against if they try to innovate and market in Second Life. They have to face a phalanx of vicious junkyard dogs who are the FIC and their hangers-on. You have to be made of pretty stern stuff to do this. But more and more people will do it — the world is growing!

    And it doesn’t matter if Kage Seraph is himself elite, FIC, or whatever, he’s not in Cristiano’s faction, and I’m sure not, so all Cristiano can do is grump about the accomplishments I’ve highlighted.
29. 

    Timeless Prototype
    

    Dec 18th, 2006
    

    There’s nothing wrong with what Kage has done in my eyes. I think it’s a cool product.

    Yes, the world will start producing more and more free stuff and doing wild and zany things. No doubt about it.

    Maybe spend some time chatting with the scripters at the 3rd annual Scripters Trade Show (now on, go to New Caledonia).
30. 

    dildo baggins
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    >>and selling 1000 in 36 hours

    uh…how do you “sell” something that is free? It’s distributing a freebie, not selling anything.

    As for rezzing from a hud…It’s essentially the same as rezzing from a command line or clicking on an object.
    For some reason y’all happen to think it something Magikal coz it’s done from the Hud. Muy strange.

    And he’s just used the same base object with variations for each vehicle in attachments and control scripts…a smart design choice.

    I don’t actually denigrate the very cool device features…it’s a great toy for a couple of minutes [I ditched it because of the typically clunky SL vehicle control system(s)], but actually in and of itself it is nothing spectacular.

    If he moved a 1000 in 36 hours I’d say it’s more due to the price than anything else…with a slight greasing from the simplification of distribution mechanics [which essentially has been used before in other forms].

    The thing I find most disturbing about this is Prok DEMANDING that the guy release it as open source by trying to shame him. I’m fairly certain he would have done this anyway [as he implies above due to workload] but your “ok…let’s here about the script itself that runs this HUD thing…open sourced? Not? If not, why not?” is..well, for starters get some fucking spelling lessons again [here? sic!] and quite frankly he’s entitled to do with it whatever he wants [derivative license issues aside] without any help from you. Dipshit.

    oh..and kudos for the http://www.paoutreach.net/pages/kibaale/kibaale_home.htm initiative.
    It’s a wonder prok has not found some way to slag that off…oh, wait, the old hag already has an implied putdown of that one:
    “So, while it’s great that the Elemental is something that as a vehicle is a thing that produces income to sustain people in Uganda…ok…let’s here[sic!] …” Can’t wait to get your hands on it for your own business use is my guess.

    Actually prok, the fact that “Elemental is something that as a vehicle is a thing that produces income to sustain people in Uganda” is all we need to know…really.
31. 

    humanoid
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    I tried the Elemental yesterday afternoon. As others have noted, the HUD and the configuration options are really cool. The vehicle mode designs are also well done. But in the end, one is still stuck with clunky, crappy SL vehicles that move like a dead badger being dragged around by an epileptic child. I’ll never understand why people pay money for vehicles in SL. They have no value beyond static decoration.

    I wonder.. is the current game engine and programming interface simply inadequate for vehicle simulation, or are there really no programmers in SL skilled enough to take advantage of it? I used to suspect the latter, but the former seems more logical.
32. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    >uh…how do you “sell” something that is free? It’s distributing a freebie, not selling anything.

    Like, this is a big deal? Yes, they were DISTRIBUTED and not SOLD FOR MONEY — they were MOVED. Your point? If I mistakenly put “sell” based on my original impression they were “sold” — so what? Still very important — that’s a lot greater rate than most freebies.

    >>As for rezzing from a hud…It’s essentially the same as rezzing from a command line or clicking on an object.
    For some reason y’all happen to think it something Magikal coz it’s done from the Hud. Muy strange.

    Yes, because the HUD makes the interface much more pleasant, easy, and intuitive. I find most HUDS just have more obvious things they do and just look better than the regular clunky interface. This is subtle and minor for most tekkies, and big for most non-tekkies.

    One of the biggest difficulties for SL’s learning curve is the concept of the command line. Most people take a lot of time to crash it; they often make typos or don’t get things about channels and backslashes — it is an endless chore teaching them. This is one thing that tekkies simply are blind as bats about. This is why the TVs that use buttons or one-click solutions for pay, rather than CrystalShard’s TV that requires you to type things in channel /1 just works better for a lot of people.

    >And he’s just used the same base object with variations for each vehicle in attachments and control scripts…a smart design choice.

    He’s not the first to do that; he’s just combined it in an innovative package. Sometimes, that’s all that is needed to make something take off, rather than remain the possession of a tiny circle of tekkies.

    >I don’t actually denigrate the very cool device features…it’s a great toy for a couple of minutes [I ditched it because of the typically clunky SL vehicle control system(s)], but actually in and of itself it is nothing spectacular.

    I don’t care about vehicles; I rarely test them; I’m uninterested in these kinds of toys for boys most of the time, I guess. But I can recognize the significance of combining several things together like this in a compelling way — the same set of devices can be used to sell other widgets or furniture or whatever.

    >If he moved a 1000 in 36 hours I’d say it’s more due to the price than anything else…with a slight greasing from the simplification of distribution mechanics [which essentially has been used before in other forms].

    Apparently you’re unable to grasp that for SL, even a slight greasing (which is more than slight giving the regular clunky interface) yields big results. We need more slight greasing.

    >The thing I find most disturbing about this is Prok DEMANDING that the guy release it as open source by trying to shame him. I’m fairly certain he would have done this anyway [as he implies above due to workload] but your “ok…let’s here about the script itself that runs this HUD thing…open sourced? Not? If not, why not?” is..well, for starters get some fucking spelling lessons again [here? sic!] and quite frankly he’s entitled to do with it whatever he wants [derivative license issues aside] without any help from you. Dipshit.

    I don’t shame shit — that’s just your idiotic spin on it. I just point out that something that is clearly very killer-like that could be very wildly used, like the rental scripts, might well benefit from being open-sourced. We have all these open-source nuts in SL. They all stood idly by while the rental scripts were NOT open-sourced but instead crafted to introduce huge windfalls to a tiny minority of businesses. So I merely point out this could happen in SL again.

    Is the issue like CrystalShard and other ideological scripters deliberately undercutting television manufacturers with a free script right when video became possible? No, because video is an entertainment niche, and the better brands have content which CrystalShard doesn’t bother with. Her free TV was very misleading to many people who thought it would give them the ability to access content beyond a few public domain samples — it doesn’t. I think Freeview is an example of a clunky, stupid, misleading, frustrating, ideological product that merely impedes the market and undercuts the economy while adding nothing.

    Meanwhile a thing that enables all sellers of all products to move their items to market faster is a kind of public utility that the world could benefit for having for free. After all, the chief value of the product will be the product itself and the content, the moving device is merely a vital, but secondary part of it.

    >oh..and kudos for the http://www.paoutreach.net/pages/kibaale/kibaale_home.htm initiative.

    >It’s a wonder prok has not found some way to slag that off…oh, wait, the old hag already has an implied putdown of that one:
    “So, while it’s great that the Elemental is something that as a vehicle is a thing that produces income to sustain people in Uganda…ok…let’s here[sic!] …” Can’t wait to get your hands on it for your own business use is my guess.

    Why am I slagging of something helping Uganda? I’m not, that’s silly. And actually this is a topic I know something about, unlike the anonymous Dildo Baggins/Nolan Nash/whoever.

    I acknowledge that it’s a great thing. Most people buying Kage’s products by them for the product itself, not the gadget that moves them. I point out that the device that can move them is a public utility that the world could benefit from by having open sourced. This is the whole raison d’etre for open-source, the one constantly invoked by its adherents (who are often hard copyleftists who are wrong about all open-sourcing around SL issues and who disappear, when a thing like this comes along and have nothing to say).

    >Actually prok, the fact that “Elemental is something that as a vehicle is a thing that produces income to sustain people in Uganda” is all we need to know…really.

    Well, I don’t think you get to endlessly cloak yourself in white robes of glory because your product enabled $117.52 US to be able to be sent to Uganda. Let’s get a grip here. It’s good people use their income for charity. But there’s no end to the good you can do if you are willing not to seek credit. Somebody giving to charity doesn’t then exempt them from critical discussion about their product, nor exempt them from a request to consider open-source their product so that many can benefit.

    And frankly, Kage, who seems like a normal guy and not a dick like you, Dildo, with your long history of anonymous asshole posts, said, why sure, can I send it to you?

    And I already said, oh, thanks but no thanks, I can’t make proper use of it. That’s because I can’t benefit any business with this as I don’t have the ability to sit and tinker with it.

    Others do. It will benefit business as well as non-profit work. It’s a good thing in many ways. I viewed it as a public utility as I said, like notecard-giver.

    I’m astounded at how hard it is for someone in SL to make something cool, and get it going, and the wall of idiocy the reactive core of the FIC still has surrounding it. Merely because I was the one to praise this product, the usual suspects came out in full formation. Had Cristiano praised it, everyone would be mouthing praise like parrots.
33. 

    dildo bagginsesesssess
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    >>…and not a dick like you, Dildo, with your long history of anonymous asshole posts…

    eh? Pot calling Black Kettle…Pot calling Black Kettle…come in asshole!!!

    >>nor exempt them from a request to consider open-source

    request??? Sounded more like a commanding whining asshole to me. A REQUEST would have been far more polite and a tad more respectful of someone who’s done a fair chunk of real work and given it away already.

    As for “Well, I don’t think you get to endlessly cloak yourself in white robes of glory because your product enabled $117.52 US to be able to be sent to Uganda.”

    a. endlessly? He made one or two references to it and you, as per usual, immediately go into an over the top put down.
    b. $117 might not seem much to you [probably what you spend on your rabies medicine, screen wipes, or gin per week] but it buys an awful lot in a developing nation shithead. Don’t you know the Nobel prize was just awarded for implementing microcredit schemes? Oh no….I think I just opened a bag of invective on the Nobel prizes!
34. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    The endless is people like you dildo, not him. He’s been very modest about his contributions — you haven’t, picking up his good deed and my comment about it and trying to use it as a cudgel. For shame.

    The issue isn’t Uganda, Nobel Prizes for micropayment schemes, or anything of the kind, and introducing it is specious, and the sort of profound act of bad faith we’ve become accustomed to here in the Herald comments from anonymous trolls like yourself.

    The issue is whether there is something that can benefit the world of SL, too. That doesn’t have to be posited as something that is done at the expense of poor children in Uganda; to do so is ridiculous and extremist. You can do both. To the extent SL succeeeds and has an easier interface and economy, it can be used both for ordinary commerce and for commerce also attempting to sustain non-profit projects.
35. 

    Just a thought
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    Make me laugh some more Prok. I for one don’t give a rat’s ass who reports on this ALPHA product.

    All I care about is the end result when it’s done being tested – and for something like this? I’ll gladly help out with the testing.

    As for the HUD and system it uses – unless the code that went into it to give it the functionality it has – and unless the code that went into allowing someone to click the vehicle and get one free was already Open Source or was planned to be Open source …. bah, not even then.

    It’s not a “public utility” until the creator says it is. No one else has the right to say it should be this or that, all they can do is make suggestions.

    :yawn: Back to putting a few things together for my in world employer …. and back to praying that you drop the guise and bitterness. No one’s out to get you.
36. 

    Inigo Chamerberlin
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    “all Cristiano can do is grump about the accomplishments I’ve highlighted.”

    Granted, Cris made it abundantly clear that he has personal issues with you Prok, which is why I withdrew from the discussion at that point.

    However, I believe that the original article, the one drawing people’s attention to the product, distribution system, updating method and the destination for contributions, was all the work of Pixeleen Mistral, the Herald’s Managing Editor.

    Careful now, people *might* come to believe you are attempting to grab credit for another’s writer’s investigative work and writing.

    I of course realise that you have merely slightly overstated your contribution purely in the heat of personal argument – something which shows just how foolish involving oneself in such futile antics is.

    Perhaps better to avoid personal conflict in future, especially writing as, you do, for the Herald?
37. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    Inigo,

    I surely didn’t grab credit for Pixeleen’s article, and here, and on my own blog, nominated her for editrix of the year — don’t be silly.

    I don’t see where you even *get* any notion of my putting in “personal participation” in this story. What I’m doing is *noting the accomplishment*.

    Your little admonishments are unattractive, Inigo. And I don’t need any little homilies about “avoiding personal conflict” for the sake of working for the Herald. There is no requirement that you must avoid personal conflicts to work at the Herald that I’ve heard of; furthermore, robust criticism of someone like Cristiano lording it over the forums and flying around in his white robes isn’t a personal conflict; it’s an outright public service : )

    What I think has happened to *you* Inigo is that you’ve lost your nerve. You’ve begun to worry that perhaps Cristiano is powerful and might ding you, or worse, smite you.

    You had it *exactly right* when you said of him, his clique, and Torley (who promoted SL Stats in an unseemly way, too):

    “Hey Cris, wassup? Something NOT created by one of the elite annoying you?

    Well, shit happens – this thing is what SL is *supposed* to be all about, a resident coming up with a genuinely new concept – yes, it *is* new, talking about ROAM is ludicrous, ROAM was crude, unreliable, *expensive* (to run), and depended on Torley ramming it down people’s throats (especially via the forums where anyone else would have got pulled up for spamming a commercial product so much in inappropriate areas).

    I suspect the big problem – for some people – with the Elemental Multiform Craft, or rather it’s distribution method, is going to be that it rocks the boat for the established store/mall/slex/slb distribution system.”

    It’s very hard to stick to this position, I realize, Inigo. But try. It’s terribly important. One brick at a time. Small steps.

    Don’t back down!
38. 

    dildo bagginsesesssess
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    You ARE on crack you silly old womanses!

    There is absolutely NOTHING unique about this product…apart from the fact of you hectoring the poor guy to open source it so someone will develop it into a distribution mechanism you can use to distribute the Daily ProkSpew ™ to torture the in world population with.

    or…..maybe a SpittleHud ™ that self updates with foam flecks whenever Prok posts something new on her blogroll or, god forbid, the herald! Spittle grows in direct proportion to proks increasingly hysterical replies and attempted putdowns! Hey, that would be uber kewl! A bit like “Being Prokofy Neva”!

    and it’s not like Porkofky to overstate something now, is it?
39. 

    Inigo Chamerberlin
    

    Dec 19th, 2006
    

    At the considerable risk of repeating myself Prok – YOU wrote:

    “all Cristiano can do is grump about the accomplishments I’VE HILIGHTED.” (My caps)

    YOU highlighted? Really? Did YOU write the article at the top of these comments? That was my point. And I’m taking your advice Prok, not backing down.

    My advice? Well, while you often have interesting things to say, you also often throw your credibility away by getting into personal scraps. You’d punch a lot harder if you didn’t do that, but I guess it’s just your nature. If you’re going to do it though, you shouldn’t hand people ammunition on a plate, as your careless comment did.

    As for loosing my nerve… really? Don’t take any bets on it.
40. 

    Kage Seraph
    

    Dec 20th, 2006
    

    Hello,

    Sorry for the delay. Stupid RL. (is anyone else REALLY ready for Christmas break?) =) For anyone interested, I posted the LSL and PHP powering the Elemental distribution system at http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?p=1363902#post1363902 . It used to do all sorts of fancy serving statistics, but I stripped all that out so it could handle load more rapidly.

    As I note in the forum post, it’s not a secure transaction. It’s pretty basic (doesn’t handle non-free stuff) but I’m sure if someone wanted to they could update the scripting to handle actual for-pay items. Since I prefer the Elemental to be free, I guess I don’t feel the strong urge to make this into a secure, money-handling vendor system.

    Hope it helps!

    –Kage
41. 

    Topo Gigio
    

    Dec 20th, 2006
    

    Prokofy said: “That doesn’t have to be posited as something that is done at the expense of poor children in Uganda; to do so is ridiculous and extremist.”

    Yeah. I tend to agree, AND the same goes for constant extremist camparisons to the Soviet Union. Just think of those poor millions upon millions of murdered people. Having their pain, suffering, toture and ultimate deaths used by some tinfoil hatter to advance an agenda against the people she loathes on the intarweb. How low. For shame, for shame!

    It’s really, really creepy at times, listening to someone so often accuse others of behavior they themselves exemplify to a “T”. On Second Thought, I should probably not find it surprising nor creepy. People with the various neuroses exhibted by Neva many times project. Our resident loon just happens to project at about 500,000 candle power.

    “Do as I say, not as I do,
    Why? ‘Cause I’m better than you!”

    Biggest hypocrite in SL, hands down. The big question is whether or not Neva is a true crazy person or is just that diabolical, manipulative and cunning, so as to knowingly fabricate motives for anyone who does not toe the prokline. You’d think she had a fiber running into each of our brains, so she can pull out our very innermost thoughts, plans, and desires, and “report” them.

    On the topic of this thread – the only reason Prokofy is dry-humping the whole thing is because she sees it as a victory in her Quixotic battle with the “FIC”.

    Your methods are known Prokofy. The longer you go on like a hydrophobic poodle, the weaker you become.

    Those teeth are falling out one by one.
42. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 20th, 2006
    

    Thanks, Kage, that’s great! Good luck in your work!
43. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Dec 20th, 2006
    

    >I’VE HILIGHTED.” (My caps)

    I just highlighted them? No evil plans of domination here, just a highlight? hello?

    I’m not worried about “my credibility” as you envision it. If I worried about “my credibility” as people in SL envision it, I would never speak a word.

    >If you’re going to do it though, you shouldn’t hand people ammunition on a plate, as your careless comment did.

    Um, I haven’t made any careless comments? It’s just your feverish imagination, that begins to back away from your original, independent stance, under the collective pressure of the little Hive Mind that can get buzzing on a thread like this. Resist, resist, Inigo, I know you can do it!

    You ought to know by now that delivering little homilies to me about the precepts for living and writing about SL have no effect on me; I do hope they help you articulate your own goals, however, otherwise your effort spent cranking up into self-righteous overdrive is wasted!

    Nolan/Topo, you need to keep your personas straight.

    “It’s really, really creepy at times, listening to someone so often accuse others of behavior they themselves exemplify to a “T”. On Second Thought, I should probably not find it surprising nor creepy. People with the various neuroses exhibted by Neva many times project. Our resident loon just happens to project at about 500,000 candle power.”

    I’m glad you’ve had a chance to evaluate my posts and determine the right moral meter setting that fits for you. I’ve helped you do that. You now know for sure that you hate it when people make what seem like false comparisons; you loathe what you feel is hypocrisy; you have many other insights and valuations that are giving you now the sturdy sense of self-worth and purpose that you never had before you began reading my candle-powered posts.

    So work with that, stay with that, try to keep that warm, toasty feel of hand-generated self-righteousness, because in our cruel world of Second Life, the cold winds of brutal server reality an so easily dissipate anyone’s cloud of self-worth.
44. 

    dildo baginssesssesssess
    

    Dec 20th, 2006
    

    >>try to keep that warm, toasty feel of hand-generated self-righteousness

    yes! Like the left hand you have permanently planted in your groin diddling yourself while your right hand mashes the keyboard in a constant fit of self-righteous freudian BDSM bag-lady park babble. What the fuck was done to you as a child you poor old thing, me wonders?

    Can ya also send me one o them new ProkNeva SpittleHubs ™ old deary, once ya get them built through your extensive network of top sl talent that lives down among your smelly old drawers? I don’t know if i’m teki-nici-ficcally capable of clicking on one myself to get one.
    I can find some industrial grade ear plugs to simulate your hearing myself.
    And don’t forget the shader vizfx filtering to warp the viewpoint so we can all get an accurate piccy of what it’s like to be you from the eyeball end!

    *Shudder*
45. 

    Inigo Chamerberlin
    

    Dec 20th, 2006
    

    [Shrugs, grins and wanders off shaking his head]
46. 

    Rock Ramona
    

    Dec 24th, 2006
    

    wow,amazing,just like a set of ginsu knives,,,only thing is you can use ginsu knives,,you cant use vehicles in sl,so why are we even sitting aroind talking about how cool it is and all this omg this is gonna be so cool when we dont even have a place to use the vehicles we got now…im taking everyones kool aid
47. 

    volkov
    

    Mar 7th, 2007
    

    Good article, it’s a good possibility.

    I wrote about Second Life my own blog:
    http://callfromnextlife.blogspot.com

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