No Criticism Please, We’re Lindens
by Pixeleen Mistral on 08/12/06 at 2:09 am
Prokofy Neva banned from official Linden blog
by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk
Thursday, Torley Linden banned Prokofy Neva from commenting in the official Linden blog, for “trolling”. Of course, trolling is in the eye of the beholder, and recent shortcomings in Linden Lab’s software may have led to short tempers for those in the Lab – perhaps even for the perpetually and strangely happy Torley Linden. Perhaps dancing for over a week to explain that search functions might get fixed soon, and thinking of yet another excuse for what is clearly a completely overtaxed database might cloud one’s perspective. Can someone send Torley some love?
Apparently the blog ban was caused by Mr. Neva’s responses to a blog post announcing a town hall meeting December 20th. Prokofy Neva raised a number of questions about the Linden’s support for the libsecondlife reverse engineering effort. Libsecondlife is the open source toolkit that has been used to create god mode clients that can see where normal Second Life client cameras cannot easily go – a boon to voyeurs, mega prims – which exceed the normal prim size limits, and the infamous copybot and similar exploits for copying user created content by replicating without regard to the creators digital rights management controls.
This ban from the official Linden blog mirrors events from last year when Mr. Neva was banned from the Linden’s official forums – again the reason given was that a Prokofy Neva post is likely to stir up discussion as uncomfortable issues are raised – and discussed at length. Evidently Linden Lab is not a fan of robust discourse on its forums and blog.
Prokofy Neva banned for “trolling” Linden blog
Shortly after last year’s forum ban, the Lindens changed their forum policies so that forum infractions could result in in-world sanctions. Similar policies have been announced for the blog. When the Herald asked Mr. Neva if there was any threat of in-world sanctions or Second Life ban to go along with the blog ban, he said as far as he knew Torley was only banning him from the blog. Mr. Neva also said that he had already written to Philip Linden, Robin Linden, and Jeska Linden to protest Torley’s action – but was pessimistic about any action being taken to rectify the situation.
Given the number of blog entries that have attracted vitriolic criticism of the Lindens by any number of residents, some might find it surprising that Prokofy Neva is being singled out again for disciplinary action – but if the Lab wanted to chill free speech – at least on its blog – taking aim at a high profile critic might be the most expedient way of sending a message to the residents at large. This might also have the effect of making some residents think that the Mr. Neva’s criticisms were hitting a little to close to home for the Linden’s comfort.
Bob the Tomato
Dec 8th, 2006
Of course they were ‘too close for comfort’ … the Lab hates the truth.
I’ve recently been watching some sci fi that I haven’t for a long time, about an evil, tyrannical Federation that drugs its citizens to quell discourse, but a small group of rebels manage to get together and start to fight back. There are so many parallels it’s just not believeable.
Next question is will Prok be ‘mysteriously unable to get to the Town Hall’? Although, I’m quite sure, that the questions about libsl that concern many of us will be raised by someone. They might silence the individual, but they can’t silence the masses.
Bob
Thoughtful newbie
Dec 8th, 2006
There isn’t a single line of trolling on his behalf. At least to the point of view to a sane person that I am having read through the comments page. In fact some posters who used quite insulting word constructions towards Prokofy’s ranting should be banned for trolling.
urizenus
Dec 8th, 2006
Those screenshots… Is it me, or is Prok starting to look like a well fed David Bowie. Maybe *that’s* why they banned him.
Doc Nielsen
Dec 8th, 2006
LL have this terrible problem that they are completely unable to address REAL PROBLEMS.
OK, Prok can be a pain in the ass – but in this case he did nothing that I can see to justify the action taken – what he DID do was raise some very pertinent issues, which I, and many others also find very worrying, in a reasonably polite and rational fashion. He then went on to defend/justify his position in a measured and reasonable way.
So – faced with someone raising a justified public concern, does LL attempt to address the issue?
No – they attempt to muzzle the person raising the issue (again), an issue which is of great concern to many, many residents.
Still, that comes as no surprise – that appears to be the LL solution to any ‘difficult’ situation.
People with justified complaints and concerns filling the old forums with negative comments on known problems? (which coincidentally don’t do a lot for LL’s ‘image’)
OK – Remove most of the forums
People continue to ask questions regarding bugs, broken functionality, issues regarding the very subject that Prok just got muzzled for in the Linden Answers forum? (which coincidentally don’t do a lot for LL’s ‘image’)
Right – Either ignore the posts or remove them without comment
Overwhelming complaints in the blog about broken functionality following an update?
NO problem – Either turn comments off, or post replies stating that various problems are ‘fixed’ when in fact they demonstrably AREN’T. (which coincidentally don’t do a lot for LL’s ‘image’ – hmmm, is a pattern emerging here do you think?)
Overwhelming requests for ‘No more ‘new toys’ and the fixing of the existing bugs?
Hah! Distract them – Continue to push out updates containing new ‘features’ that very few, if any, residents have requested and which break existing functionality horribly (Here kids, LOOK! NEW! SHINY!) and ignore reducing, indeed increase the bug content of SL
There’s something almost sad about LL’s near complete inability to understand that problems, customer concerns, dis-satisfactions, are things that have to be faced up to and addressed.
When your policies are questioned, when complaints are made – this is a symptom of an underlying problem.
One wonders what sort of actions members of senior management take in response to warning signals in real life…
If Robin detected a lump in her breast, would she seek medical help, or simply ignore it and hope it went away?
If Philip started to suffer the classic signs of high blood pressure, would he seek medical help, or carry on regardless?
If Cory found he was coughing up blood, would he seek medical help, or just make sure he always had a box of tissues to hand?
Hopefully all of them would FACE the problem and DO whatever they could to DEAL with it.
So, why are they so manifestly incapable of FACING UP TO and DEALING with the symptoms of SL’s numerous severe problems, other than by attempting to ignore them?
Thoughtful newbie
Dec 8th, 2006
Next thing is they ban people inworld for posting comments on SLHerald.com using their secondlife name.
Which of course will lead us to getting banned because we complained about LL’s politics towards our real life neighbour who happens to be one of the feared and omnipesent fanboys.
So here’s my advice to LL’s staff: Go ahead, ban all of us who got a legitimate interest in an enjoyable *world* experience. Just don’t act bewildered when you one day notice to have grown a small moustache and developed a stiff right arm.
One day
Philip Linden
Dec 8th, 2006
Yes of course this is a fake name… but it goes to show that just because someone uses a name here doesn’t automatically mean that they are the same person as they are in SL. Hence whacking the banhammer on someone for posting here is fatally flawed – since when can LL control third parties anyway?
Who am I really? Well you’ll just have to guess
Philip Linden
Dec 8th, 2006
NO! I am the real Philip Linden! Stop using my name! Stop it I say! or I’ll…I’ll…I’ll get Torley to giggle at you!
Prokofy Neva
Dec 8th, 2006
>Shortly after last year’s forum ban, the Lindens changed their forum policies so that forum infractions could result in in-world sanctions. Similar policies have been announced for the blog.
I don’t see any evidence of this police of the blog at all. There’s no such statement in the guidelines. Link?
Philip Linden's Glittery Codpiece
Dec 8th, 2006
Just like me… this whole episode of ‘Linden justice’ smells fishy.
Doc Nielsen
Dec 8th, 2006
Yes, well ‘Philip’, when has anything being fatally flawed ever stopped LL from implementing it?
It wouldn’t surprise me one little bit to see LL ‘unpersoning’ individuals who they deem ‘troublesome’ in OR out of world.
Of course if they DO, that raises the chances of a steadily increasing trickle of ‘pissed off ex-resident denied access to their US$ value assets’ V Rosedale/Linden type law suits, or indeed class actions, with the consequent publicity.
Now we all know the old saw about ‘All publicity is good publicity’ – but in this case, from LL’s position, I do have some doubts…
Still, that raises interesting possibilities for the BBC’s Bill Thompson too, doesn’t it? I notice his recent articles (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6137424.stm) touching on SL have become a little less than uncritical of late. Kind of embarrassing for LL, seeing how happy the BBC was to jump into SL originally?
But the publicity arising from ‘unpersoning’ a BBC columnist would be beyond the ‘real’ Philip’s wildest dreams – or maybe not?
The problem for LL here is that the more you raise your profile, the bigger a traget you become.
Satchmo Prototype
Dec 8th, 2006
Uri… you’ve finally crossed the line. I love Bowie! That’s not reason for a ban. Damn you to hell.
This isn’t about Linden criticism. Prok and others raise great questions that I hope to see Cory O answer. It’s about completely derailing a post about an upcoming Town Hall.
Random Writer
Dec 8th, 2006
Hey Prok, there was word, not denied, but I guess not techincally confirmed that Lewis Nerd’s actions on the forums got him banned in world for 3 days.
http://secondlife.com/knowledgebase/article.php?id=061
“”"”Second Life Forum General Guidelines
Suspension: A suspension is the temporary deactivation of a violator’s posting privileges from the Second Life Forums and from in-world activities.
Ban: A ban is the permanent deactivation of the violator’s account with the Second Life Forums and from in-world activities. “”"”
Walter Sobcek
Dec 8th, 2006
Haaaaah Haaaaah Ha Ha Haaaaah……
These Linden bastards own all of you suckers!!! They can and will do with you and their game world whatever the fark they please, and they will make you like it. They have ways, you know.
Cory Linden
Dec 8th, 2006
Prokofy can only expect the ability to spread her lies about us for so long before we grow tired of it. We have grown tired of it.
Artemis Fate
Dec 8th, 2006
I would just like to repoint out that despite Prokofy’s belief and continued support that he was somehow thrown out of the SL forums for expressing Truth, justice, and the american way, it was actually for excessive trolling and personal attacks. He would often start topics and insult everyone who disagreed with him (which was just about everyone), so i’d rather not hear this whole “Prokofy is a hero and the big bad LL banned him from the SL forums to stop JUSTICE” still.
That being said, his posts on the linden blogs are hardly as bad as his old posts on the SL forums, the only thing I see that could be considered wrong is he absolutely refuses to drop the copybot/libsecondlife issue and was actively trying in every post to incite debate over it.
Which, considering that LL and everyone else seems to be past the whole Copybot thing, could I suppose be considered trolling, which is defined in the rules as such:
trolling – making comments intended to induce an angry response or disrupt the flow of discussion
However, you’d think they’d give a warning or something. At best, I think they’re likely trying to quiet down talk of copybots because it’s bad press.
Artemis Fate
Dec 8th, 2006
Of course, I suppose when has Prokofy ever responded to warnings from lindens, that just incites him further. So if they considered his frequent pushing of Copybot and libSecondLife off topic and thus trolling, I can understand that ban.
urizenus
Dec 8th, 2006
Yeah but every time you ban prok from a forum that no one has ever heard of, the number of people that hear about Prok’s views increase by two orders of magnitude. This is not just in the Herald but the Blingsider and Clickable Culture and who knows where next. Crimey show some love to the rest of us attention ho’s Cory. You guys never ban me from anything! *pouts* I’m starting to miss EA.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 8th, 2006
That’s not the real Cory Linden.
Talthybius Brevity
Dec 8th, 2006
Cory, while you’re reading here would you mind addressing why Torley is choosing to forbid comments (to the same blog post this article is about) suggesting that LL implement a formal QA process?
I’m paraphrasing from memory, but this is basically what I wrote yesterday around 6pm SLT, which was moderated out of existence without explanation:
——
Hey guys and gals: deploying updates without first doing some sort of simulated load testing in a staging/beta environment is… well… there are to many negative words and phrases to choose from.
Formalized Quality Assurance and load testing is what software and internet service developers do as common best practice, why does LL think it doesn’t need to do the same?
You’re in the big leagues now. Act like it.
—–
Sure its harsh feedback, but it isn’t intended as insulting, nor is it trolling, it is plain constructive criticism (via rhetorical question) with a reminder that you’re a media darling now with many corporations who have an eye on setting up a presence in SL. The same ol’ small shop approach just won’t cut it.
Why would pointing this out not be relevant to the discussion on the blog post in question?
Why are posts like that being moderated out of existence?
Is it too uncomfortable to have the root cause of your current woes pointed out?
If my assumptions are just plain wrong, then why not allow the post and take the time to correct any incorrect assumptions in the post?
With the number of current users logging in weekly, I can hardly be the only one wondering why you aren’t simulating load testing on new code before publishing it, and why it the results of the updates reek of a lack of QA.
Hang in there, you’ll get through it. Especially if you listen to our feedback and take it to heart and take action on it. We want to help make it better or we wouldn’t waste the time writing feedback.
Peace,
~Talthybius Brevity
Prokofy Neva
Dec 8th, 2006
It’s about completely derailing a post about an upcoming Town Hall.
No, Satchmo, no. There isn’t any derailment. Read the text carefully. I put out one or two comments — and a slew of fanboyz lib-lubbers come pouring on to crush my statements and refute them. They are the derailers. I would merely let my comment stand, allow others to take their place in line with new questions. I would continue on my blog. But they don’t do that. They don’t play by that sense of netiquette. They keep banging and banging — and “they” includes Gwyn, who is among the most adept of the fanboyz — to keep trying to prove they are right, trolling, inciting, and name-calling all the way, and taking on a hostile, arrogant, and condescending air.
When I see such responses, I feel then it is within my rights to provide counter-arguments. And by doing so, I empower others who then come out of the woodwork, and suddenly we have 6 people with their own, individually-arrived-at concerned opinion about CopyBot.
BTW, Satchmo, comments on the revelation that Flipper knew about CopyBot days before the scandal broke, and even called up 2 friends from libsecondlife and even tried to get them to stop CopyBot but they wouldn’t listen? Because, you had said here on the Herald that ESC wasn’t involved at all and knew nothing. But knowing about it and trying to stop it is pretty involved, if you ask me.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 8th, 2006
Talthybius, but the Lindens do have a test grid, and they invite everybody to load on to it and test it before each patch. Are you saying that isn’t enough? Must not be, judging from results.
Talthybius Brevity
Dec 8th, 2006
Prok I’m saying that the beta grid is definitely not enough.
The main grid is seeing 15,000+ concurrent logins every night. What’s the max concurrency on the beta grid? A few hundred at best?
Simulating 15,000+ logins (via scripts, not actual people actually logging in) would show problems due to load that are not currently seen on the beta grid due to the low load.
Hence “Load test.”
And my blog comment wasn’t to the town hall post, it was to the database load issues remain/return post. Perfectly on topic.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 8th, 2006
But…but…Talthybius, you’re not getting it. Second Life *is* a load test. WE are the server load tests. The concommitant log-ons of people like us IS the test. See?
Talthybius Brevity
Dec 8th, 2006
Oh, now I get it. So if they launch an update and it breaks tons of features and the grid crumbles under the load, then they know that the update isn’t ready for launch.
Silly me, why didn’t I think of that?
They must have picked up this practice from the way Microsoft tests for security flaws: launch it and see what happens!
Cat Cotton
Dec 9th, 2006
Hiya
I think LL has made a lot of mistakes in the past as far as their customer base goes. Mainly their perception of customer loyalty misses the mark nearly on a weekly basis. Many companies that fold sit around and wonder why they folded. For LL half the answer is obvious, even now. Failing to allow their paying customers to voice their concerns is a huge mistake. “What went wrong, we were doing so well?” answer: “Dunno, no one complained in the context in which we allow some positive complaints.”
Between this and the shit grid these days, and it is shit. I’m really starting to wonder if LL will be around this time next year. Right now they are ripe for someone to take their customer base right from under their noses. It would be simple. Just give the customers 3 months of stability without throwing some new “your getting fucked again, but hey we are profiting” scheme at them.
Cat
Cat Cotton
Dec 9th, 2006
“Which, considering that LL and everyone else seems to be past the whole Copybot thing, could I suppose be considered trolling, which is defined in the rules as such.”
I’m not over it, I still think it made LL look like they not only backed libsl but helped create the copybot. I honestly believe my best work is behind me now, not something I aspire to create in the future. Why should I; when LL answer is a) oops, b) your on your own, or c) tough luck. Who needs that kind of headache, I would rather stay in the private sector and view SL as the game it is.
Cat
gmjm
Dec 9th, 2006
“Second Life” is NOT Teen Safe!
[As posted to the comments to Second Life why my son, 15 yrs old, was canceling his account]
My son “Red Dae” was approached by TWO different ADULTS on his second visit. When he complained to one of your adult monitors, he was banned from Second Life. The monitor refused to listen to my son, claimed he was paranoid, and denied that his contact with adults in Teen Second Life was real. Already feeling emotionally violated, your monitor made matters worse, obviously caring more about Second Life’s profits (via their paying perv adult members) than a child’s well being.
My son returned to Second Life to show me what had happened, and that same “black & white” robot was still in the “Welcome” area. Apparently she did not see us pop back in because she was talking with 3 other adults about my son’s interaction with her. Within a minute though, they all saw my son’s character standing right there, listening to every word, and the other 3 quickly vanished. NONE of those 4 had “Linden” as a last name to identify them as adults, all were posing as teens. In my son’s rage and anger, he used the f-word a few times. Then a Linden-named “mediator” appeared and without the slightest attempt at seeing what the issue was, he kicked my son off. Later we received an email stating he was kicked off for violating the usage agreement. Apparently the usage agreement says you can’t swear, but says nothing about being a perv adult hitting on kids, so therefore they don’t take any action against them.
So, the reason my son (and I) will NEVER use or recommend this crapware application and environment is because…
1. They have proven that they support and DEFEND the hidden adults in the teen area.
2. Refuse to listen to teens with real issues and complaints. There is NO LEVEL OF ANY SECURITY to protect the kids.
3. Further increase a child’s trauma by telling them they are paranoid, and what happened didn’t, so as to PROTECT the abuser and label the child as a liar.
4. Lie to each other about what really occurred to cover their own ass, thus spreading lies about the child… c’mon, how cold and callous do you have to be to do that?!
5. To test Second Life’s security, I have logged on 3 times, an adult freely able to chat and interact with teens on any topic; proving my child’s accusations about the ease of pervs using Second Life to chat with kids. Not only is it EASY, but it allows for adults to buy huge portions of land and build private “homes” for private conversations, and to build places for teen amusement and attraction. Second LIfe is perv heaven!!
Posing as a teen, I still have some land in the teen area and will be building on it as the focus and experiment for an article in a major magazine about child care and safety. I thank my son for bringing Second Life to my attention. My editor believes this will be a huge awakening for parents, as well as for our naive teens, and I expect it to be the source of numerous safety articles about similar web-based games in the future.
My son, nor any of our friends and relatives, will ever be on here unless it is to assist me in my research and exposing all of the dangers of your site to children for a national publication.
Inigo Chamerberlin
Dec 9th, 2006
Hmmmm, THIS is definitely one that will not end well.
Sighs
Why is it that lately LL appear to be making just about every mistake in the book, and a few that they’ve come up with all by themselves?
Things really DO seem to be coming unglued at a frightening rate.
Artemis Fate
Dec 9th, 2006
I wouldn’t say LL is “pro-perv” or anything, for the most part the liasons are just over-worked and inept. They don’t bother to get the full idea of what’s going on, they just see if anything appears to be violating a rule and execute a decision. Really you should have just filed an abuse report and left it at that.
Urizenus
Dec 9th, 2006
Teen grid was a bad idea from day one. If you can’t supervise the alleged adults in the main grid, how do you ensure the safety of kids in the teen grid. Obviously not with their current liasons — or at least not with their current liason/resident ratio.
Cocoanut Koala
Dec 9th, 2006
I agree with your assessment, Cat.
As for the technical status of the grid, well, this business about a few people losing large portions of their inventories, or entire portions, is pretty bad. This in addition to constant difficulties with search or whatever the thing is that week, and things predictably made worse by every f**kupdate.
This, aside from the problems I actually consider much worse, like repression in general, and even persecution of individual customers.
coco
Cocoanut Koala
Dec 9th, 2006
Gmjm, that is chilling.
“2. Refuse to listen to teens with real issues and complaints. There is NO LEVEL OF ANY SECURITY to protect the kids.”
That upsets me SO VERY MUCH. I love teenagers. I can’t stand the thought that this happened to even one teenager.
I can’t begin to tell you how much this upsets me. You NEVER NEVER NEVER blow off a teenager’s report like this.
Much less ban him afterwards, and I don’t CARE if the Lindens are overworked and inept, etc. Anyway, I don’t think it is that at ALL.
I think it’s the callousness Gmjm mentioned, and we’ve certainly seen oodles of that, over and over, on the adult grid.
But – adults are adults, and this is much worse, assuming Gmjm’s report is correct. This is like Lindens being complicit in a crime.
Uri’s right, the Lindens just can’t handle having a teen grid.
coco
Nacon
Dec 9th, 2006
I dare to laugh at Prok’s face for getting banned, cause you’re too stupid to ask everything.
Where’s your god damn common sense? Stop being a retard. You’re not a hero. You’re an ass. Period!
The more you FUCK with them, the longer they will get anything done. Like fixing bug without dealing with ranting-retards/hackers/greifers/SLLA’s stupid missions/lawyers/crybabies on the phones/lag-whiners people.
Uri – Duh, that’s why they still are hiring, but no one want to deal with all that crap they’ve been dealing with.
Just a thought
Dec 12th, 2006
So Prok got banned from the forums and the blog. Big deal.
frankly Prok likes to wax idiotic about accountability and how he/she is protecting us all from the evils of Linden Lab.
Get real. I IMed Prok and, once he/she responded was quite civil. I am sorry to say that the same cannot be said of Prok. I learned far more about Prok in that one conversation than I could possibly have by reading prok’s blog, the Linden Blog, or even this ‘newspaper’.
I for one will cheer on the day when Prok is banned from Second Life itself – and will cheer even more when al posting abilities everywhere are revoked …. this includes on his/her own blog.
The world has no room for someone so quick to judge a person based on their comments or the groups that they belong to. It has no place for anyone that is so bitter from whatever life they’ve lived that they must jump on anything and anyopne that doesn’t adhere to their moral code.
Mine prohibits me from posting the IM – it also prohibits me from ever having further direct dealings with him/her outside of any possible business needs.
I truly hope and pray that others like him/her see what has happened thus far and learn the lessons before attempting the same sort of crap that he/she has.
what are those lessons?? Don’t sign up for a service without reading and understanding their terms of service. don’t hide behind a notion that you’re doing anyone a service when you clearly have ulterior motives and when your life has colored what you see and do.
If you cannot at least pretend to be civil to those you disagree with or dislike, then don’t bother attempting any sort of social interaction at all.
Cocoanut Koala
Dec 12th, 2006
The world DOES have room, and had BETTER have room, for all kinds of people and personalities.
The difference between you and Prok is he would not cheer on the day when you got banned from Second Life itself, unless you were actively griefing or bringing down the grid.
And I doubt anyone besides you would cheer on the day when LL is able to remove all of a person’s posting abilities on his/her own blog.
coco
Just a thought
Dec 12th, 2006
No coco, the difference between myself and Prok is that I can actually sit down and attempt to be civil with tose I disagree with or dislike.
I cannot say the same for Prok, and I can say, just from whatI learned in that one conversation, that he/she would certainly cheer when someone he/she has disagreed with or dislikes is banned. It’s called Human Nature. to suggest otherwise shows a distinct lack of understanding of the most base parts of said nature.
to think that the world has room for such people as described in my prior comment shows that you’re naieve enough to believe in a utopian society in which everyone has a right to say and do whatever they please without consequences.
That’s not the way the world works nor should it be. If what has been written weren’t so colorfully and artfully disguised so as to be almost unnoticable to most were instead written in the most bluint, direct way possible in any number of physical media ….. there’d be government sanctions and lawsuits.
If you feel the ened to defend Prok – that’s fine. I don’t mind, but please take off the rose-tint glasses beforehand and actually try to put yourself in someone else’s shoes for a moment. I’m pretty jadded and bitter myself when it comes to certain things ….. but outside of my very close circle of friends I don’t rant and rave, I don’t allow it to color my words, and I certainly attempt some level of civility when directly dealing with those I have some issue or problem.
Just a thought
Dec 12th, 2006
and to make something clear to you Coco – I said nothing about LL being able to remove a person’s posting ability on a third party Blog. What I was saying was I will cheer on the day when people that have been allowed to post such thinly veiled venom and jadded bitterness as what is on Prok’s blog are forced to answer to and abide by their host’s terms of service.
which incidentally I have reviewed ….. TypePad doesn’t believe in free speech at all, and could close down Prok’s blog based just on the (albeit veiled and occasionally artful) venom, bigotry, and unfoundedly baseless accusations contained there.
I’m a firm believer in proof for any sort of conspiracy theories …. until provided I don’t put much weight on them except as a view that needs to be kept to oneself or to one’s circle of friends. They don’t serve a purpose unless the proof is there.
Cocoanut Koala
Dec 12th, 2006
I defend free speech, Just a Thought.
You certainly do disagree with a lot, that I’ve noticed. And I find it amusing that you tell me the way the world works.
coco
Cocoanut Koala
Dec 12th, 2006
P.S. Considering the SLH is on Typepad, I would say you have your work cut out for you.
Just a thought
Dec 12th, 2006
I disagree with anything and anyone that presumes to think that the world is some perfect little place where everyone can say and do what they please with imputiny.
As for this paper? Unless I find something here written by one of the ‘reporters’ that breaches typePad’s Terms of service. … well to say that your post script doesn’t have thing one to do with any of my comments is putting it mildly.
An interesting thing to note: I may not agree with the concept of being politically correct …. but I don’t agree at all with the notion that an individual can go about spewing the sort of things I’ve seen in many of his/her posts and on his/her blog.
Nowhere did I see irrefutable proof to back up anything that he/she said. Nowhere at all.
what I did see were crass generalizations about people he/she has probably never met at all. What I got when I made attempts to respond in the Linden Blog to him/her was nothing but venom for daring to disagree. I got lumped in with a group I do not belong to and in essence told to sod off.
sorry, that doesn’t fly with me, nor does this business of refusing to admit that his/her comments can be construed as abrasive when they need not be, and purposly geared to cause a response that is less than calm. Nor does the business of hiding behind some deluded sense of “doing what is right and just.”
Cocoanut Koala
Dec 12th, 2006
People have a right to be abrasive. And they have a right to post their opinions and their analysis, even if others disagree with them. (In most places, anyway.)
coco
Just a thought
Dec 12th, 2006
Nope, sorry coco but that ‘right’ to be abrasive stops where your fingers meet the keyboard.
when it comes to that sort of thing I’m an “eye for an eye” type of person, in most situations. if you actually think people have a right to be abrasive then by all rights ….. go support the local racist groups. after all …. “abrasive” is being polite for them isn’t it?
Cocoanut Koala
Dec 12th, 2006
No, actually, a person can be just as abrasive as he likes. he has that right.
I think you are trying to take on all the laws extant regarding slander, libel, and free speech, combined with various hate speech law, and interpreting them far too broadly.
coco
Just a thought
Dec 12th, 2006
coco, I’m not here to debate the finer points of civility with you. I made my post, I responded to your post, I’m done attempting to explain my reasoning.
The world I live in is one where such abrasive and abusive people have no place whatsoever, despite claims to the contrary. Why? They really don’t serve a purpose other than to be abrasive and abusive.
Had this been a discussion about say …. physical abuse aimed at another person (even doemstic abuse) I’d be the person clamouring for the abuser to be shot.
Death Penalty for Murder? sure – in fact if the case can be proven beyond all shadow of doubt, why off them right there in the courtroom!
rape? get rid of them. No jail time, no parole later ….
Theft? That deserves a second chance. After that, get off the mortal coil.
Getting the picture?
Now the sad part is that the way the world works, none of what I believe above would eevr be considered because Humanity latches on to the insane notion that these people can be reformed (and maybe some can) …. I don’t believe in giving them that chance.
Just as I believe those that write anything at all for public consumption should have no rights to be abrasive and abusive – ever. Freedom of speech stops when it causes strife.
Cocoanut Koala
Dec 12th, 2006
Um . . . okay.
coco
Urizenus
Dec 12th, 2006
>that ‘right’ to be abrasive stops where your fingers meet the keyboard
WTF! Lynch the rude pundit now!:
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/