How Does Deadbeat Downbeat Dell Pay Land Tier?
by Pixeleen Mistral on 13/01/07 at 5:38 pm
Dell corporate island owner has no billing info on file
by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk
UPDATE – Today the Herald was able to contact Pyrrha Dell who assured us via e-mail that Dell is a good citizen – although the financial arrangements with Linden Lab are confidential. To try to entice Pyrhha to upgrade to a premium account, I’m hoping to take her shopping for clothes in Second Life soon – I’ve got an SL Herald Platinum Corporate Card that I used to verify my account – so I can expense the whole shopping spree. Hopefully search and teleports will be working consistently soon, and as long as we stay away from places that refuse entry to unverified avatars like Pyrrha it should be a great time!
–
Hi Pixeleen,
You’re right I don’t get into Second Life nearly as often as I would like. But please don’t take that as an indication that I’m not serious about Dell’s involvement in Second Life. I’ve added a comment to your original post. While I can’t go into details of Dell’s financial agreements, I hope that my response does somewhat assuage the fear that Dell is not a responsible resident.
Thanks,
Laura
Laura P. Thomas, ABC*
Corporate Editor
Dell | Global eCommerce | Second Life | Pyrrha Dell
*Accredited Business Communicator | International Association of Business Communicators
Corporate titan Dell Computer may have fallen on rough times of late, as the low overhead computer firm seeks to regain its former profitability. Perhaps it is a cost cutting measure – but it appears that Dell found a way to own land in Second Life without providing Linden Lab with payment information [using the same methods as normal residents]. How does this affect the Linden’s balance sheet? Can our readers get a similar deal – or does your last name have to be Dell to get out from under the tier payments? have a confidential financial arrangement?
Pyrrha Dell cannot pay
Dell’s Second Life presence consists of a number of islands owned by a Ms. Pyrrha Dell. However, Ms. Dell’s Second Life profile indicates that she has “No Payment Info On File” – which caused a number of metaverse residents to wonder how Dell makes land tier payments to the Linden Lab game gods.
A visit to the Dell islands confirmed what our sources had suggested – Dell’s island are not group owned – instead they are owned by a single person – Pyrrha Dell – yet somehow this resident remains unverified.
From the picture in her profile, Pyrrha seems to have done well enough on her appearance picking up freebie clothes, hair, and skin, but we are sure that many of our readers are deeply concerned that she is still unable to buy L$s at the Second Life web site. Although a number of residents have found ways to make L$s in the personal service industry to get themselves started in SL, we still wonder how Pyrrha managed that land purchase. Did Dell get a sweetheart deal from the Lindens? – and how can Pyrrha pay her bills? If you can use an unverified account to own an island is this a way to launder money?
Artemis Fate
Jan 15th, 2007
It’s not the development company’s jobs to inform their clients (and media for the clients) all the little details of Second Life. They’re not Sherpas as you hastily deduced, they’re builders. The client wants something built, they build it, end of story. Only time Second Life comes into play is when they tell them the limitations and how something the client wants can’t be done, and what the next best thing based on second life limitations is.
As normal, you have a severe misunderstanding of how these things work Prokofy, and as normal as well, you have no interest in gaining an understanding, only propogating your flawed beliefs as truth as loudly as possible.
Inigo Chamerberlin
Jan 15th, 2007
-sigh-
SL is falling into a deadly spiral of broken functionality and this is the best you can come up with?
A splendid exhibition of sense of humour failure?
Screw ‘em all Pix, if they can’t take a joke.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 15th, 2007
Sherpas build base camps, Artemis. Have you never studied their role around Mount Everest, for example? Of course they build for gentlemen explorers. That’s what they do!
I see you’re a member of Electric Sheep Company. Are you on the payroll?
And I fail to see why Hiro Pendragon’s company’s should serve as a mask to big business. They are incapable of getting their own big corporate accounts? They spend $1500 on a last name and they have to have little Hiro squire them around? Why? Is there something not…permanent…something very temporary about what they are doing?
Oh, I understand only too well what this is about, Artemis. It doesn’t take rocket science to grasp the point you think we’re not getting, that yes, duh, big companies just hand these little metaversal agents $25,000 and say “buy me a presence in SL, send me the itemized bill, we’ll let you take care of it”.
Sure, it’s done like that all the time in RL *when you are paying a marketing firm to run one ad campaign, or paying an agency for a booth in a trade fair*. But…would you pay a marketing agency to open up a branch office in a city or country for a year?
Why should these metaversal ad companies get to exploit the ignorance and reluctance to get into the weeds of these big corporations to a) mask their presence and their level of commitment b) funnel impressions to them c) drag them into local disputes?
Prokofy Neva
Jan 15th, 2007
Sherpas build base camps, Artemis. Have you never studied their role around Mount Everest, for example? Of course they build for gentlemen explorers. That’s what they do!
I see you’re a member of Electric Sheep Company. Are you on the payroll?
And I fail to see why Hiro Pendragon’s company’s should serve as a mask to big business. They are incapable of getting their own big corporate accounts? They spend $1500 on a last name and they have to have little Hiro squire them around? Why? Is there something not…permanent…something very temporary about what they are doing?
Oh, I understand only too well what this is about, Artemis. It doesn’t take rocket science to grasp the point you think we’re not getting, that yes, duh, big companies just hand these little metaversal agents $25,000 and say “buy me a presence in SL, send me the itemized bill, we’ll let you take care of it”.
Sure, it’s done like that all the time in RL *when you are paying a marketing firm to run one ad campaign, or paying an agency for a booth in a trade fair*. But…would you pay a marketing agency to open up a branch office in a city or country for a year?
Why should these metaversal ad companies get to exploit the ignorance and reluctance to get into the weeds of these big corporations to a) mask their presence and their level of commitment b) funnel impressions to them c) drag them into local disputes?
Just a thought
Jan 15th, 2007
This is the way it is done. Get. Over. It.
That or find yourself a nice, clean, Utopia where nothing ever goes wrong, everyone is happy, companies don’t take advantage of people…..
Oh wait – that place does not and will never exist.
Pyrrha Dell aka Laura Thomas
Jan 15th, 2007
Hi there. I am Laura Thomas, the Dell employee known as Pyrrha Dell in Second Life. While not fully understanding why it is so important, I am aware of the initial interest in and comments from everyone on the fact that I do not have payment information on file.
Rest assured we at Dell have invested time and money to develop our presence in Second Life, and did so with the intention of embracing the existing community. That’s one reason we selected IVM as our “sherpa”. That, and their personal passion for what Dell could be in Second Life. It’s a passion you can sense in their responses to this posting.
I worked directly with Linden Labs, however, for the opening of our account, the purchase of our islands and the Dell surname. As a large company, we do business with literally thousands of other companies, too. We don’t go into all the details of such relationships – if we did with one, then hundreds of others would follow.
Our commitment to Second Life is just beginning. We look forward to expanding Dell Island and becoming a better resident to all who participate in Second Life.
Thanks again for the interest.
Chavo Polonsky
Jan 15th, 2007
What’s a “myrmidon”?
mam glands
Jan 15th, 2007
*settles back to see how Prok twists Pyrrha’s response into an Al Queero ego promoting spittlefest*
Prokofy Neva
Jan 15th, 2007
>I worked directly with Linden Labs, however, for the opening of our account, the purchase of our islands and the Dell surname. As a large company, we do business with literally thousands of other companies, too. We don’t go into all the details of such relationships – if we did with one, then hundreds of others would follow.
Yes, this is what I was afraid of — some kind of special, that the rest of us didn’t get, despite our hard work.
I notice Dell has 4 islands. I have about 14 island’s worth of sims. My traffic is 10 times what yours on, even on my humble rental towers, and salsa dance joints and malls.
Of course, I’m not Dell. I’m just an individual. Still, I wonder why I couldn’t get my company’s name for having even more sims — and not have to pay this outrageous $1500 fee — btw, did you pay that? That seems like a helluva fee for what you get. What *did* you pay? Did you get a discount?
Regarding your sherpas, yes, last year on the forums, Boliver told us proudly that he never buys or cashes out Lindens. He never has to. Because he doesn’t really live in this world. He’s a consultant getting paid by his clients like you. So how much can he know what it’s really like to live and work in this world, and suffer all its difficulties, but still run a profitable business?
While we are all here talking about Dell, I thought I’d compliment Sukhran Fahid on his amazing build (CJ Carnot is also represented in the builds there). Somehow, Sukhran never gets mentioned when Boliver and Hiro elbow to the front, but he is largely responsible for the beautiful look and feel of this build. Check it out everybody, it’s great, it’s very futuristic but done very cleanly.
And while it’s an amazing place, just a bit of feedback, since we’re all here chatting.
I figured the whole point of Dell would be to serve as a kind of 3-d interactive space where I could come into SL and find a Dell computer, something I might actually do. But it took me 45 minutes to find the place to do that. That’s because when you land, there’s all kinds of cul-de-sacs and side-alleys that lead into things like tutorials on how to use SL itself, or a conference center, or whatever, without a clear sign that says ‘BUILD AND ORDER YOUR DELL HERE” with a sign that really teleports by right-clicking. That’s got to go front and center.
I finally after endlessly bumping into stuff and clicking got on to that white pod thing and finally got on the factory floor and figured out how to seat myself and begin configuring my ideal Dell. But I became confused because there were no PICTURES like there are on the Internet webpages. Please, PICTURES are what you need. To be sure, they will cost you $10 per upload, but I think with all your savings on the deal with LL, you could go the $10 per.
There was only that clunk drop-down blue screen saying “Hiro Pendragon’s Dell Configurator” — I mean, did we really have to have Hiro’s branding exercise right in our face? I came for Dell, not Hiro Pendragon.
SO I get like 10 lines of complex-looking bright text and I struggle to imagine what it is looking like without peeking just yet at the web page. Finally I finish and I click to get the SL facsimile which comes out on a conveyor belt — but which isn’t visible there in front of me at the work station. Seems to me you need a kind of holovendor thing that renders the customized item there on the scene in 3-D like holovendors do.
The souvenir and news stores also had nothing clickable and copyable so were frustrating. Maybe it’s still under construction? Why not a few of those computer facsimiles that are up on the floor, and have that teddy bear robot thingie copyable or sellable?
Geeks and tekkie wikinistas always tell you that Dell is for chumps, it’s not cool, it’s never something the cool people ever buy, as it involves buying online and not at their favourite RL geekie store and it’s sort of middle-of-the-road. But I’m undeterred, I fear not, Dell looks good enough for me, and happy to keep shopping at the Dell island to see if in fact there might be a bargain or something that works for me in the4 $650 desktop range.
And what I’d highly recommend is a way to illustrate the idea computer for SL, that matches all the specs and is a proven winner to running SL perfectly. Don’t be afraid to make a package that actually sells the SL computer.
well, that’s all for now, Pyrra, see you in the Metaverse,
Prokofy
Artemis Fate
Jan 15th, 2007
You know Prok, it’s funny for a guy who claims to be hyper capitalist, and absolutely loathe communists, you hate development companies and corporations making profit off of capitalism, and spit out quotes like this:
“Yes, this is what I was afraid of — some kind of special, that the rest of us didn’t get, despite our hard work.”
Prokofy Neva
Jan 15th, 2007
I don’t understand what is capitalist about insider deals. Sounds more like chaibolism or oligarchism of the sort that socialist or transition-from-socialism countries have. Capitalism isn’t about having some companies get special deals and others be left out in the cold. It’s not making a profit that offends me at all. It’s getting coddled and subsidized so that you don’t have the same conditions of those making a profit under far more harsh settings. It’s not at all capitalism I object to; it’s socialism of this sort.
Artemis Fate
Jan 15th, 2007
That’s exactly capitalism. Linden Labs gets a benefit for real life companies coming because they can use it for advertising, real life companies want it for the same reason, as well as they intend to buy a lot of sims and LL wants to sell them. So they make deals to give incentive (a very important word with capitalism) for them to come and do it. It’s why they have bulk deals for most products if you contact the company and haggle.
What you’re talking about, everyone getting these bonuses whether they benefit LL personally or not, is socialism.
mam glands
Jan 15th, 2007
“But I’m undeterred, I fear not, Dell looks good enough for me, and happy to keep shopping at the Dell island to see if in fact there might be a bargain or something that works for me in the4 $650 desktop range.”
my god…I don’t believe it. Now we come to the crunch…prok arselicking her way to a “special deal”. How’s that work prok?
They give you a “special deal” and suddenly you’ll start writing nice things about dell? Is that really what it’s all about? I guess so…
Chavo Polonsky
Jan 15th, 2007
I, too, visited Dell Island, and had better luck than Prok here. Granted, I made a series of lucky guesses–I guessed that, if I wanted to build a Dell Computer, I might want to try the place called “Dell Factory.”
After struggling not a bit to get myself seated (hint to Prok: right-click; select “Sit”), I looked at the PICTURE of the computer I thought was prettiest (Prok, maybe your graphics card is on the fritz) and configured away.
I understand our Prok has to make like he’s struggling to find something good to say all the time, but his take on Dell Island seemed a bit … well, disingenuous, even for Prok. I mean, come on: “I became confused because there were no pictures.” He CAN’T be serious. He’s read that book about Myrmidons. I have a copy of that book, and it’s big and fat and doesn’t have a single picture anywhere in it. I know, because that’s -exactly- why I’VE never read it.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 16th, 2007
No, I don’t need any sort of special deal. I don’t see that special deals are warranted. And I’m not asking for any “bonus”. In fact, what I find hilarious is that the concept of bulk purchases and incentives for those with 10 sims’ tier (get the 10th free i.e. with the 10 percent group bonus) is one that is constantly being attacked and harried by the FIC for all kinds of pretentious reasons that mainly have to do with people on islands wanting even more of an unfair advantage.
If the discount was an obvious one like that: “buy 10, get one free” then I could see it. But this way, what it given, and what is got, remains “confidential,” and is part of making an unaccountable world.
I went to the island, I made my honest critique, pluses and minuses.
Well, there aren’t pictures. They have pictures on their website. They can have them here. It’s a must.
Um, gosh, I figured that “Dell Factory” would be the place where there’d –wow! — be computers to assemble. But you don’t instantly find it. And even when you get there, it’s not clear that there are desks to sit at — they seem like pure props at first. The big desks block them. And duh, I know how to sit on a chair after 2 years, but the problem is again, this giant desk that looms up, and when you click on it, gives Hiro’s branded objects which gives you numbers to chose from like 1-4 but it’s not clear where the list of 1-4 is such as to pick it.
SL is laggy and crappy. I have all the right video cards, I saw no picture whatsoever. Just a giant blue desk.
Honestly, they need to make the signage more clear and the traffic flow to the point of sale much, much more intuitive and easy. That’s a given.
Hiro Pendragon
Jan 16th, 2007
I just wanted to say briefly that I was impressed with Pixeleen’s ultimate response, and should she do take Pyrrha Dell out shopping, I expect a report!
Just a thought
Jan 16th, 2007
Prok, since you seem to have missed it I will copy it down here, with this addition: Linden Lab is a company, not a government – Second Life is a Program, not a World.\
When it comes to companies, this is the way it is done. Get. Over. It.
That or find yourself a nice, clean, Utopia where nothing ever goes wrong, everyone is happy, companies don’t take advantage of people…..
Oh wait – that place does not and will never exist.
Tang Lightcloud
Jan 16th, 2007
Just A thought: “Linden Lab is a company, not a government – Second Life is a Program, not a World. Get. Over. It.
That or find yourself a nice, clean, Utopia where nothing ever goes wrong, everyone is happy, companies don’t take advantage of people….. ”
I recommend to put an end to the Prok rantings and conspiracies once and for all, that everyone copy the above quote. Then each and every post it makes – this will be everyones standard response. If we multiply this quote by the thousands in all her blogs and posts — maybe just maybe it will finally sink in and it will realize its been living in an alternate dimension – and hopefully just STFU.
Ok everyone cut and paste-let the the brain washing begin.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 16th, 2007
I’ve actually run organizations and worked with companies for decades. And…do you have a job, Justa? Or are you just talking through your ass in your mom’s basement again?
There’s now “this is how it’s done” when it comes to something that is different and revolutionary. In fact, it’s a good time to break the old molds and chains.
But in fact, your notions of “this is how it is done” are painfully juvenile and rigidly orthodox. It’s not done this way in RL — and I should know, having lived real life probably three times as long as you have with far more rich experience. That’s the problem with you creatures who live on the Internet.
I don’t need any “clean utopia” — but I sure as hell will fight for a just world. That’s just normal stuff. That’s the sort of thing my generation and even the next generation did routinely. I don’t know why you lamerz can’t grasp that freedom has to be fought for, it’s not handed on a silver platter. You exploit the achievements of those who have gone before you.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 16th, 2007
>I recommend to put an end to the Prok rantings and conspiracies once and for all, that everyone copy the above quote. Then each and every post it makes – this will be everyones standard response. If we multiply this quote by the thousands in all her blogs and posts — maybe just maybe it will finally sink in and it will realize its been living in an alternate dimension – and hopefully just STFU.
Um, I think the person guilty of wishing for a “nice, clean, utopia” is you, Tang. My God, can’t you see the fascism? Trying to wipe out other people’s freedom of expression? Trying to silence protests — legitimate commentary? Even if it *was* a conspiracy rant, which it isn’t, why would shouting and trying to deafen or silence someone like that be right? Of course it isn’t. Indeed, only those looking for a “nice, clean, utopia” where they never have to hear an opinion contrary to theirs would even dream of such a fascistic notion as stalking someone around to every post and pasting some rigidly fascistic notion on to their comments.
Second Life is all about creating alternate dimensions for many people. Get used to it, and get over yourself.
Chavo Polonsky
Jan 16th, 2007
Prok, regarding your allegation of special treatment, isn’t this sort of like a wholesale/retail situation? You basically paid retail prices for your land–scattered around many mainland sims, already in existence. Whereas Dell purchased their land wholesale, or at cost even, direct from the manufacturer, as it were. There does not seem to be any special treatment involved.
If I purchase a computer from Dell in the real world, I do not demand accountability from Dell with respect to their dealings with their corporate clients. I assume there are separate rules for dealing with corporate purchasers than there are for dealing with individuals. I assume the same with SL and Linden Labs. I’m not sure I understand why you think LL should make their dealings with Dell more “transparent.” This isn’t an issue of in-world justice, it’s an issue of real-world business.
I agree that the SL viewer is laggy. I seem to be having better luck with the First Look viewer, at least for simply traveling around and exploring. The lagginess might account for the fact that you didn’t see the pictures of the computers on the buttons on Hiro’s drafting table. I apologize for the, perhaps, unnecessary snarkiness of my previous post on the matter, but I did not find Dell Island as difficult to navigate as you apparently did.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 16th, 2007
You have a lot of incorrect notions of how the land market works.
Buying land in pieces around the mainland is *the* most expensive way to buy it. In the old days, pre June 2005, we had no choice. Entire, full sims of 65,536 didn’t come up on the market very often. They were rare. Usually what came up were *parts* of sims. And first land was scattered all over every new sim. So if you owned half or a quarter of a sim and decided to stand and try to develop it, you’d have to pay premium dollar — often to extortionists who would extract high prices — in order simply to put some contiguous land together and more or less hold the view. Everyone knows that who tuned in before 2005, so anyone coming earlier than that got no special deals — quite the contrary, they paid a hard price (except for those who got the free 4096s in the charter accounts in 2003).
In June 2005, the Lindens moved to an auction of full sims, and a practice not of spreading around first land but putting it on entire sims (that’s when shortages began to develop with first land BTW). Then most people could wait for a sim to essentially “add to my shopping cart” for $1000. of course most very desirable new waterfront sims would go for more, but never over $1800-2000. Today, they go for $3500 or more because private island prices have gone up, and first land is no longer created in big batches, forcing new premium owners to buy land retail, not from Governor Linden.
I’m for making any bulk discounts or pricing breaks openly available to anyone who fits a standard set of criteria.
That’s NOT what happens when a Dell or some other big company comes in claiming a “special” and “confidential” payment arrangement. It is NOT a deal open to all by fitting a grid of criteria.
I paid $1500 for Ravenglass at a time when it was a rare whole sim. A private island costs $1250 at the time (until Nov. 2006). Today, a private island costs $1695.
I reject the notion that there gets to be “separate rules” for corporate purchases. Why? And who gets to be a corporation? Why would dell, with 4 sims, get a special corporate purchase in SL merely because of its RL name, whereas I, with a purchase of 14, gets bupkus? This isn’t just — it’s not even good business. It’s the Lindens way of saying fuck you to small inworld business and shaking us loose from the grid in favour of very iffy and skittish big-business companies who so far, have not even one tenth of the commitment and skin in that we do who are exclusively inworld business. And their presence is masked by companies and developers like Hiro.
BTW, Hiro’s smarmy little suck-up to Pixeleen is duly noted. Shows you why it’s important for the Editrix to show these myrmadons whose boss, then they genuflect : )
There are no pictures on the drafting table. The island isn’t laggy. There’s just a row of text. I was there quite a long time so there was plenty of time for the world to load. There aren’t “buttons,” but that awful clunky blue drop-down text which is really a show-stopper. I wish somebody would invent something to utterly do away with that awful experience which is currently embedded into the whole LSL system. Again, I can see Hiro’s buttons, the desk, everything just find. There are no pictures that slide forward on a screen as with a vendor. A holovendor would be a great solution here and certainly Hiro knows how to make those.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 16th, 2007
and BTW, those at Dell who understand they need to have easy navigation and usability will skip right over the nasty comments of Chavo or the defensive posturing of Hiro and realize they will have to make some better signage and consider adding in more 3-d visibility and users’ tools. That’s all there is to it. The real people at Dell who have to really sell computers instead of selling themselves as fancy scripters in metaversal consulting companies will realize what’s needed to make their island more usable for real sales, and make the needed changes.
Seola Sassoon a.k.a Random Writer
Jan 16th, 2007
Yes, and we shall rise against McDonald’s for buying thier fries from another company.
We shall rise against Wal-Mart buying milk cheaper because of corporate connections abilities to buy cheaper and sell us a markup.
We shall rise against internet providers for buying hardware from corporate connections to keep the service running and passing costs along to us for the service and covering thier hardware.
We shall rise against KFC for buying thier chicken from companies for less than what they charge us because of deals arranged.
We shall rise against the telephone company for using thier corporate connections to buy hardware and software, and passing the fees along to the consumer.
We shall rise against the cable company for having corporate connections to buy the cables across the world and making us pay for cable!
We shall rise against the local contracting companies for using thier connections at lumberyards, and within the workers unions to build houses because I don’t have those connections!
We shall rise against the local bakery for getting cheap dough mixtures thanks to thier connections to the local Amish community.
We shall rise against those vacation resorts for offering rich snobs the platinum package, when I’ve worked all my life and can only afford the gold package!
We shall rise against Dell for having corporate connections and getting into SL.
We shall rise against LL, for having corporate connections and turning a few bucks less on Dell than me!
Fuck… what am I gonna do without food, TV, vacations, internet, telephone and SL?!?!?
Nice way to pick and choose principles there Prok. Of course, no company should EVER charge less or more to ANYONE just because of what they can do for the company! O.o
Just a thought
Jan 16th, 2007
It’s obvious to just about anyone that reads your comments Prok that you do not know anything at all.
Drop the pretense, drop the bullshit, drop everything and come to grips with the reality: Any company that can get a better deal than the normal populace by working directly with another company will do so. There is no debate over it – that is the way it is done. end of the discussion. This isn’t the same world you grew up in.
Your own inane ramblings prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what you want is a utopia where no one person ever gets any ‘special’ treatment. A world where everyone is equal. That world does not exist and never will due to simple human nature. That is the reality you’ll have to live with and live in.
You’ve been told what your choices are: The fact that you keep rambling on about this is quite telling. You actually think you can change a practice that has been going on for quite some time, has been challenged in the past with NO success (none that actually matters anyway), and you seem to have this deluded notion that Linden Lab is a government and Second Life a country or actual world.
Here is the reality: corporations do whatever they can to save money. They have channels that the small fry cannot use. Unfair? Yep – but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. reality is not fair, it is not just, no one is equal. That is the way it has always been and the way it will continue to be until the Sun consumes the earth.
It does not matter what you ‘reject’ – not one iota. You do not run the companies – you do not get a say in the matter.
The sooner you get over this and accept the fact that life is not fair, not just, and that there is no such thing as being truly equal – the better off you’ll be in the end.
That’s all there is to it – you’re nothing and a nobody when compared to big business.
Artemis Fate
Jan 16th, 2007
“Why would dell, with 4 sims, get a special corporate purchase in SL merely because of its RL name, whereas I, with a purchase of 14, gets bupkus?”
Because if Dell comes to Second Life, Linden Labs can go, “look we have a real world high profit company that has taken interest in our program in serious context, why don’t you all companies come along to?” if they give YOU incentive to stay and buy more sims all they can say is “Look, we gave a loud mouthed insane paranoid jackass a bunch of sims, he’ll criticize every action you make and often many you don’t. He’s entirely unreasonable and can only imagine a world centered entirely around him, won’t you please come and stay anyways? ….anyone? ….hello?”
Maybe if you offered to shut the hell up with your fucking nuts conspiracy theories 24/7 to Linden Labs, they’d give you some cheaper land. But otherwise, there seems to be no incentive to giving special deals to a guy who continually writes long articles about how horrible Linden Labs is.
Artemis Fate
Jan 16th, 2007
“Your own inane ramblings prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what you want is a utopia where no one person ever gets any ‘special’ treatment. A world where everyone is equal. That world does not exist and never will due to simple human nature. That is the reality you’ll have to live with and live in.”
See I don’t think that’s really it, he does after all claim to hate communism, but by his statements he keeps talking about equal treatment. I think he just wants a world where no one gets treated better than him, and fuck-all to everyone else. Most of these argument he throws out are centered around “_I_ want it, why don’t they give _ME_ this, why can’t _I_ get this, whaa whaaa whaaa”. I don’t think he cares about equality for everyone, just equality or better for himself.
Chavo Polonsky
Jan 16th, 2007
Come on, Prok, my comments weren’t that “nasty”. Sarcastic, maybe, but not “nasty.”
I’d like to point out that we have no actual evidence that Dell has received anything more special than the ability to have an avatar with No Payment Info on File even though they clearly have some kind of payment info on file somewhere.
That said, I still maintain that it is not unreasonable to expect a large, multi-billion-dollar corporation to receive different treatment from Linden than an individual customer. While you may have invested more money and time to date than Dell has, it’s not unreasonable for LL to expect–or at least to hope–that Dell has the potential to invest quite a lot more over the long run.
That’s how capitalism works, Prok, and if you’re arguing for some sort of egalitarian approach then what you’re arguing for is not a free market. Your own language–that whole bit about having more “skin in” than Dell–implies that you desire different treatment based on your greater investment. I expect that you would argue for different treatment than, say, I would get from Linden Lab for the same reason. You would argue that LL should be more responsive to you, as a large landowner with more invested than me, a non-entity.
Why is this wrong?
Bedevere Octagon
Jan 16th, 2007
———–
“But in fact, the Linden have a point, unwittingly. They aren’t verified. You could be squiring in Osama bin Laden and whose to know?”
———–
What the hell kind of drugs do you take. Really!
But more to the point: I would like to think that Dell and other large companies hat sink money into SL will get special treatment. It is the only way this simulator will ever get anywhere is through money and itnerest of bigger companies who are going to steer the toolset into soemthing they can use.
———–
“Yes, this is what I was afraid of — some kind of special, that the rest of us didn’t get, despite our hard work.”
———–
Well when you show up at LL with a few million in a bankroll then you can get special treatment too. Now if you have an issue with a corporation doing this then you need to go change the entire corporate law in the US that allows a corporationto effectively act as a single entity. And as a very wealthy and powerful entitly it can command special treatment.
LL is in no way required to treat you like they treat Dell. It is unlikely that you are providing them hardware, support and cash that Dell will. Dell will provide them other thinsg that you cannot: a good insite to the practical and business applications that SL has. SL is pretending to be a “game” but if it is going to survive, will eventually have to become a full fledged business platform for things like conferncing, remote control, and remote applications that would normally require technical abilites that can be simplified into simple virtual tools (admining a server, etc).
I have already pitched a proposal to my company to create an SL presense. We represent 5 major companies around the world with billions of assets and can generate an entire revunue stream selling a product from within SL that can be used both in and out of the simulator. You can bet your ass we will want special treatment too. And if I have my way I will be a consultant for the project and their sherpa. I wouldn’t mind the extra cash.
Get over it and accept the reality of what money can do.
Bedevere Octagon
Jan 16th, 2007
Sorry about all the typos. I didn’t proofread!
Patch Lamington
Jan 16th, 2007
i wouldn’t worry about typos bedevere. 15,000+ words into this laugh a minute thrill ride of a debate, i doubt anyone cares anymore
shukran fahid
Jan 17th, 2007
hey prokofy thanks for the props.
Cocoanut Koala
Jan 17th, 2007
To Pyrrha:
I’m a regular Dell user. Having something on that island that would configure up the perfect SL-playing Dell, and the second-best SL-playing Dell, and the third-best, would be terrific.
In fact, I’m getting ready to buy a new Dell, and that would have been great.
Not just for me; I bet you would sell a whole lot of Dells that way, because non-techy people are hard-pressed to come up with a system they feel confident will work well with SL.
“Hiro Pendragon’s Dell Configurator” – not good. Don’t mess up your brand name with that of an individual in SL.
coco
Prokofy Neva
Jan 17th, 2007
Seola,
How witless. It’s not about the fact that companies buy from each other. That’s ridiculous. It’s that this company gets some kind of confidential arrangement that evidently involves getting a discount or some perks (or it wouldn’t have to be kept confidential) — merely on the strength of “RL stake and clout” which Philip Linden always claimed is not a value to make up the Better World. And yet…it is.
McDonald’s has open books that are audited. There’s far more transparency involved in any one of those companies you have named than this as-yet not-profit-making company and its cronies. Cronyism is not a way to run a society and have it succeed and prosper in the long run. Having long-term relationships with vendors and giving them discounts isn’t cronyism because it can be explained by obvious, demonstrable criteria that is available to any long-term bulk supplier, for example. That can’t be said about Dell, now, can it?
Corporate connections aren’t wrong in and of themselves, because in RL, you can understand the rules for how to get them, and they are applied more equally and more openly. In SL, it is a secretive and cult-like atmosphere. And you help fuel it by trying to downplay this reality, and minimizing it.
That said, I still maintain that it is not unreasonable to expect a large, multi-billion-dollar corporation to receive different treatment from Linden than an individual customer. While you may have invested more money and time to date than Dell has, it’s not unreasonable for LL to expect–or at least to hope–that Dell has the potential to invest quite a lot more over the long run.
No, Chavo, that’s not how “capitalism works” — and I see little to indicate that YOU are an expert on this subject, anyway. Capitalism in a liberal democracy would tend to reward those companies that have a track record of performance in a given situation. They would be your client or supplier or partner for having some demonstrable good. What is the demonstrable good from Dell? I’m sorry, but it’s only it’s RL reputation, and that’s not good enough for me when we’re all here supposed to be building BetterWorld (TM) *cough*. Like I said, put very coldly, Dell has 4 islands; I have 14. What has Dell down for Linden’s bottom line that I haven’t done more of?
What you’re failing to see, as always, due to the tekkie literalist problem, is that I’m using myself as an example, not as someone to get special pleading. I don’t need a thing from Linden Lab. They have a webpage with land on it, I click, I buy it. End of story. The rules on that page say that in a group, as an incentive, I get 10 percent extra tier as a bonus for more group contributions. That’s the kind of incentive that makes sense, as it can apply to anyone across the board merely by fitting the same grid of criteria.
Cronyism involved in the FIC stuff and now the Corporate Inner Core is different, as it is secretatiev, not demonstrable, or merit-based, or anything of the kind.
What you can never understand is the concept of LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. Under the Rule of Law. These are basic principals. You must always misunderstood this as equal outcomes — which it is not — or special pleading, or jealousy, or dumbing down — which it is not. It’s making fair rules for everyone.
Well when you show up at LL with a few million in a bankroll then you can get special treatment too. Now if you have an issue with a corporation doing this then you need to go change the entire corporate law in the US that allows a corporationto effectively act as a single entity. And as a very wealthy and powerful entitly it can command special treatment.
Oh, I could entertain this as a concept…when I see the corporations roll up with a few million *US* in the bankroll.
Um…where is that? Get out your microscopes. What Pixeleen’s story highlights unwittingly is the degree to which it’s the FIC’s sherpa companies rolling up with the hint of a bankroll, all hat and no cattle, so to speak. Where’s the wealthy and powerful entity that has actually done some big splash in Second Life? IBM has a tiny fraction of the islands of Anshe Chung or Azure Islands.
Dare I say I’m not impressed here?
>I have already pitched a proposal to my company to create an SL presense. We represent 5 major companies around the world with billions of assets and can generate an entire revunue stream selling a product from within SL that can be used both in and out of the simulator. You can bet your ass we will want special treatment too. And if I have my way I will be a consultant for the project and their sherpa. I wouldn’t mind the extra cash.
>Get over it and accept the reality of what money can do.
Uhh…ok, there, champ, when your proposal is accepted and your billions are flowing, um, get back to us on that will you?
What I *can* accept so far is the reality of what a big mouth, a big e-peen, and an anonymous Internet can do for a little dweeb like you bragging about some big company you work for as a peon. I truly find it risable. I guess the Metaverse is made for creatures like you.
I agree with Coco that Hiro Pendragon should have kept his dumbass SL name off the Dell branding device. He can be listed on a plaque somewhere but honestly, we need more modest — and more skillful — sherpas here, folks.
Yes, if Dell won’t do it, then one of these companies has absolutely GOT to sell the perfect SL configured computer. I bet they will be afraid to do that all around, and LL itself might discouraged them.
Just a thought
Jan 17th, 2007
Hmmm, I wake up, pop over here to see if any real ‘news’ is being ‘reported’ by this ‘newspaper’ (I’m sorry, I meant to say Weblog) and find more of the same bullshit being spewed in an attempt to defend a position that quite frankly is as outdated as ENIAC (the first computer).
Dell pays Linden Lab directly – they’ve said as much. That is the truth of the matter, all that matters, and quite frankly while perhaps not the way it should be done, it is the way it is done.
Only a change to the laws governing such transactions can change that – and I don’t see that ever happening. Verbal protest on a Blog won’t change it, petitioning the government won’t change it, it’s a fact of life – Get over it and move on already.
The fact that some keep using the same words (or are they really words? I can’t find them in any dictionary so I suppose they are not words after all now are they?) to describe anyone that decides to slam reality in the face of those complaining ….
If people are so incapable of facing reality and so incapable of keeping up with the times, then it’s high time they stopped attempting to make sense out of everything.
This is 2007, not 19xx, or even 18xx. Nothing short of a full scale government take over or a complete revolution to replace the government will change this. ever. Arguments to the contrary just show how naive the person making them really is.
The Age of Revolution by Protest is over. You want something to change? go out and DO something.
Seola Sassoon
Jan 18th, 2007
Good god Prok, are you really that stupid? I mean, I knew you were a little bit of a ranting lunatic but seriously….
Because you can call people socialists, capitalists, FIC, blah blah bleeh blah blah, that makes you an expert?
Get over it. You aren’t special. You don’t bring anything to LL.
In fact, if you disappeared, I’m sure no one would take notice, except maybe your ownself on a story you put out there about how the capitalist, socialiest, elitist gubmint forced you out.
You have NOTHING in the way of expertise in this area. IF you did, you’d realize how idiotic you sound, when you say “Sure it’s okay for RL to RL companies to have business arrangements, because they are forced to show everything.” Then go on to say that LL is what? NOT a real business?
Fact of the matter is no, no company gets audited unless by the IRS for a hint of a scandal. No company is forced to reveal ANYTHING to ANYONE. In fact, the IRS’s audits in confidentiality, which is required by law to not have public info. What you hear, that gets to the public is usually released by PR firms, in response for the businesses to help maintain damage control for investors. You are dead wrong. Don’t feel bad, I know you are gonna go ahead and ramble some idiotic statement to this anyways.
However, I do think it funny that you say that special arrangements are okay, since they don’t directly involve you.
Both Dell and SL gain from a partnership. In fact, it’s quite a VERY common practice that almost every business has ‘preferred’ customers. You gonna go stage a protest against airlines that offer more mileage to frequent travelers just because you don’t get the perks they do? Gonna get pissy at USO’s in airports for allowing military in to eat, drink and watch TV while they wait, and you can’t get in? Gonna get pissy because the local grocer allows someone they know to pay with a check but won’t let you? Fact of life: no one is equal to every other person and company. Are you gonna let the next person who knocks on your door in your house and lounge about just as one of your RL friends would (if you do have any), because you think everyone should be treated equally? Are you gonna let someone rob you because someone else got robbed a few days ago and it should be equal? Or are you gonna go rob someone because the guy next door did?
Are you gonna stage a sit in and the next plumbers union meeting because they get to be plumbers in a group and you don’t?
NEWSFLASH: You are nothing special. You offer nothing to LL but lunacy. I don’t see anyone jumping over themselves to do a story on you, yet there are literally hundreds about Dell coming into SL. Why? Because they provide PR to EACH OTHER.
So if they allow Dell to pay with a cashier’s check or money order and not some random employee or owner credit card, more power to them. In fact, to be honest, most business dealings with corporate to corporate transactions don’t use credit cards. And chances are, they pre-paid a set amount of time, say 1 year worth of tier, plus costs of islands and account. In a year, they’ll revisit and decide whether to pay more.
You know why I know this high and mighty ‘no one every knows’?
I do the books for my family’s businesses. And in my family, we own 5. So that’s alot of books and alot of business dealings.
When I do transactions with the lumberyard for one of them, they let me use a tab to pay a cashier’s check at the end of the year. Why? Because my family’s entire time in business with them (more than 15 years) they have been the exclusive supplier. Would an unknown be able to walk in and start a tab? No. With the bar, there is allowed personal checks from several patrons who have been going there longer than I have been alive. But we’re certainly not taking a personal check for 10 kegs purchase from some random person. The local volunteer fire department runs pull tabs there as well, and my family handles the money and presents them a check. The bar across the street, doesn’t have a key to thiers.
It’s all about relations, and ANY good business person knows that you make allowances for certain people who will benefit you. It’s common business sense.
Hiro Pendragon
Jan 19th, 2007
Prok:
>> A holovendor would be a great solution here and certainly Hiro knows how to make those.
If you look to your left on the table, a computer *does* rez when you select one. You can even touch the parts in that holo-PC/laptop to customize. I like your idea about the display screen, too, with a 2-D picture. I’m trying to figure out where I could put one without the whole thing looking too crowded, too busy.
…
Coco:
>> “Having something on that island that would configure up the perfect SL-playing Dell” …
The computers that Dell selected were top of the line at opening of the island. The PC has a quad-core Intel and dual graphics cards, and the laptop has a duo-core. They’re designed for hard-core gaming. Dell announced a water cooled upgrade of the PC at the Consumer Electronics Show recently, and that’s why I say, “were”.
>> “Hiro Pendragon’s Dell Configurator” – not good.
Understand what was referred to is a pop-up window saying who the item owner is. The item is called “Dell Configurator”. It’s still an interesting point; I’ll ponder that one.
Cocoanut Koala
Jan 19th, 2007
1. You’re probably right, Hiro – their offering for the best, second-best, etc. SL playing computer would probably not be much if any different from that which I have figured out myself.
But since it took me a very long time, armed with the Dell material, having owned several prior Dells, and asking oodles of questions all over the forums and of everyone I know, seems to me that Dell could put something that says, “Best for SL,” and would sell a whole bunch that way.
(And doubtless to me – quite possibly causing me to choose a more expensive Dell, in fact; just because Dell said that one would be best.)
Maybe, though, they would be up a creek with every new update, since each update could conceivably make something in that Dell build NOT be best for SL anymore.
Still, I swear they would sell a gajillion Dells to SL players if they would just put one of those up as, “Optimum Dell for Playing SL.”
In any case, it’s just a thought. Probably the worst problem most SL players have who aren’t real techy is trying to get a computer that will be optimum for SL.
2. If the item is named “Dell Configurator” then I’m fine with that. I thought “Hiro Pendragon’s” was part of the name.
I know that some people take on the company last name, such as “Hiro Dell.” That might be best for Dell, but personally, I don’t think it’s best for the individual designer. Which means that Dell (or another company) might not get the best designers, if they are forced to give up their own names.
I misunderstood. As long as the person’s name isn’t in the object title, then I see no problem with it.
coco
Chavo Polonsky
Jan 19th, 2007
“What has Dell down for Linden’s bottom line that I haven’t done more of?” – Prok
I dunno. Ask the Lindens. I would think if they felt they could get some kind of real-world benefit from cutting a deal with you, you’d have heard from them by now. Instead, they go with companies like Dell, whose “RL reputation” is clearly of value to them. It’s like you’ve got 14 truckloads of beets to sell to McDonald’s, and you’re unhappy to discover that they want 4 truckloads of potatoes. Going on about the perceived injustice of the situation doesn’t change the fact that you don’t have what they want to pay for.
Prokofy Neva
Jan 19th, 2007
Hiro,
>If you look to your left on the table, a computer *does* rez when you select one. You can even touch the parts in that holo-PC/laptop to customize. I like your idea about the display screen, too, with a 2-D picture. I’m trying to figure out where I could put one without the whole thing looking too crowded, too busy.
To the left on the conveyor belt is the computer you already select, when you’re done making it, you press and it spits out. I clicked on it, but I couldn’t see that any parts were changeable.
I’m talking not about the result at the end of the process, but the screen/work desk itself. To have pictures there, and even the 3-D image there while you are making the selections, where you can see it. Most people aren’t going to look to the left behind a conveyor belt, especially if there is no instruction to do so.
>Understand what was referred to is a pop-up window saying who the item owner is. The item is called “Dell Configurator”. It’s still an interesting point; I’ll ponder that one.
The owners of islands and their groups and objects shouldn’t be the metaversal agents, but the ultimate customer so that they always retain brand identity. What’s the point of buying the name “Dell” for $1500 if it leads to “Hiro Pendragon’s Dell Configurator”?
I don’t understand this reluctance of game companies and computer companies (and I’ve seen it before) to name one brand that is utterly and perfectly suited to play the game. We all know that brands differ, and you can really get screwed on certain graphic cards especially even if they are on spec. So I don’t know why companies aren’t willing to step up and say “SL-perfect Computer”.
Uhuru Nebulla
Jan 31st, 2007
Why’s is it that there is always conflict when the Hiro-Oddfellow gang gets involved…geesh,.,..,garage band developers.