Inside the Bot Cave

by Pixeleen Mistral on 29/01/07 at 11:35 am

Bot-man Kamilion Schnook‘s underground testing facility

by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk


Inside a mountain on Anarchia Island, beneath a false floor is a cave that – at times – contains around 20 bots – zombie avatars controlled by a single person. Last night, a tip arrived on the mojo wire talking about “a secret cave filled with bots ready to attack”. Unfortunately, this turned out to be a little too good to be true – my dream story will have to wait for another day.

What I did find was an underground bot testing facility used by a scripter following the libSL open-source client developments – Kamilion Schnook. Mr. Schnook took some time to chat and demonstrated his botnet a bit – until they crashed and disappeared one by one after about 40 minutes.

The bots are a set of accounts being driven from a single client side program, and crashing bots are OK with Mr. Schnook – he says the point of making the bots is to “do smoketests on libsecondlife daily builds here, on linux/mono and windows/.net”. When the bots crash, Mr Schnook says, “the results are submitted back on to the libsl maintainers as well as stack traces of when they do eventually crash”. As we waited for the bots to crash we chatted a bit.

Kamilion_schnookPixeleen Mistral: so this lets you run a small army potentially? plus debug LibSL?
Kamilion Schnook: army? I suppose… they do have a mass follow command. but they never leave the island.
Pixeleen Mistral: cool! I know some people that would love that mass follow command
Kamilion Schnook: this is a private simulator. so we don’t have to worry about people complaining that we’re doing it on their land or public land or whatever. just so happens they tend to tip us over the top when we had the camping chairs out, which we removed earlier today. they also put much less stress on the simulator since they don’t have to display any textures or primitive data.
Kamilion Schnook: we’ve easily been able to handle 99 people in the sim with .80-.90 time dilations.
Kamilion Schnook: Since they’re all dressed alike and request far fewer agent updates than the normal client, a set of 20 of them is about equivalent to one normal SL client
Kamilion Schnook: TestClient itself isn’t automated but we have a shell script that checks if it’s running and restarts it when it crashes after copying the logs out to a holding directory

Pixeleen Mistral: so are you just doing all this for the fun of it? or to make something?
Kamilion Schnook: You could say that — we’re helping out the community by locating problem bits in the code and fixing them. but I don’t get paid for it, and I’m not directly associated with the libsecondlife project
Pixeleen Mistral: how many of these bots are going to appear? how many do you make?
Kamilion Schnook: there’s a total of 23 on one net, and 14 on the other, for a total of 37.

Dominant 3D Browser?
Pixeleen Mistral: sounds like you are uber-committed to SL
Kamilion Schnook: Some folks have to be to make sure this ends up to be the dominant 3D Browser.
Pixeleen Mistral: well one of them will win I suppose
Pixeleen Mistral: probably whatever google gets behind
Kamilion Schnook: well, SL’s the only one I know of so far, other than opencroquet, that allows you to modify the entire world from end to end.
Kamilion Schnook: I asked phillip at the last townhall I saw him at about google buying out LL… his response was “no way”
Pixeleen Mistral: what about open croquet?
Kamilion Schnook: they have no economy — it’s just a fancy client without a world at the moment
Pixeleen Mistral: you kinda need a world


Camping Bot armies are over the top
Kamilion Schnook: we generally keep to ourself here in the sim, although I have noticed other people using bots on our camping chairs.
Kamilion Schnook: I have no real problem with our bots staying here and being used for testing, but sending out an army to camp seems a little over the top to me.
Pixeleen Mistral: yeah that is too much
Kamilion Schnook: But eventually these things are going to be able to speak and interact with people
Kamilion Schnook: one of my pet projects is a bartending script for them
Pixeleen Mistral: NPCs
Kamilion Schnook: I’m sick of seeing those fake flat people behind bars ;)
Kamilion Schnook: or even card dealers
Kamilion Schnook: there’s no end to the applications that this opens up — this and the SL viewer going open source.
Kamilion Schnook: and it’s an easy way to ‘save the grid’ by doing off-world processing instead of using the simulators to do it.
Kamilion Schnook: Eventually once the mono VM hits aditi and CIL bytecode is allowed. we’ll have some of the same tools in-world as we’ll have outside of it.
Kamilion Schnook: OpenCroquet can already speak the X windows protocol and display unix applications on a prim.
Kamilion Schnook: SL will eventually reach that level, even if it’s a flash UI on a webprim.

Use responsibly
Pixeleen Mistral: imagine the fun the war role play guys could have
Pixeleen Mistral: their own personal army to command
Kamilion Schnook: I’d rather not for the moment.
Kamilion Schnook: I don’t doubt that eventually, someone will write a bot script that will allow them to equip a weapon and hunt people down.
Pixeleen Mistral: yeah I expect that
Kamilion Schnook: combined with something like ownage, then some issues might begin to crop up.
Kamilion Schnook: but it’s the same as llRezObject, sure you can use it to grey goo, but you could also use it to rez all the dots in a pacman game
Kamilion Schnook: the code to do it is only one line difference
Pixeleen Mistral: in other words – use responsibly
Kamilion Schnook: exactly.
Kamilion Schnook: And we’ve seen overwhelming responsiblity on the user’s part…
Kamilion Schnook: we’ve got 3 million registered accounts, and likely less than 100 of those are the kind of people with not only the skill to write grey goo, but the motivation.
Kamilion Schnook: What that motivation is, I don’t suppose I’ll ever know.


Bot testing is OK with the Lindens
Kamilion Schnook: ‘couple lindens know about my botnet and are aware it’s not being used for greif, so for the most part, it’s fine with them.
Kamilion Schnook: they’ve been online and testing for nearly 3.5 months now
Pixeleen Mistral: well then the Lindens must be OK with it and if it is helping LibSL out it makes sense
Kamilion Schnook: As long as I’m not misbehaving with them, yes.
Kamilion Schnook: had I used them for Evil (TM), then the whole set of them and myself would likely be banned within hours.

71 Responses to “Inside the Bot Cave”

  1. Parsifal

    Jan 31st, 2007

    __This isn’t Orwell, at least, you haven’t taken over yet to make it Orwell.__

    No, it’s not, so quit trying to impose your own FUCKED UP Orwellian views on everyone else.

    I got news for you Prowacky – you do not run SL, you do not run the lives of those who play it. All you “These people must be fought and fought hard” crap is just that – CRAP. You dont get to tell people how to live their lives so kindly STFU and fuck off. You will never dictate people’s personal views, ever so I don’t have any idea what the fuck your point is, other than just to make a lot of noise so as to be “famous”.

    You don’t get to play divide and conquer, and you don’t get to decide who is “evil” and who isn’t for the rest of us. You’re attitude towards this vague, nebulous entity you label as tekkie wikki is no better than any other sort of systematic segregation that has gone on for time untold. Must feel nice to be among in the company of all the bigoted zealots throughout history.

    You are the literal antithesis of democracy – you’d have us all live how you see fit if that were possible, so save all your platitudes and homilies about democracy for someone who doesn’t know what kind of monster you are.

    The STUPID part is – you have no effect. You have done nothing. You are impotent. LL thinks your a fucking lunatic and so does the larger part of the community. You’ve effected absolutely no change in this “world”. None. So you can crow til the cows come home. As time passes, no one except other narcissists will listen to you and even some of them are turning (well actually, you turn on them).


    Words (mostly lies and assumptions)…

    Nothing More…

    Like a navel orange – all juice and no seed.

  2. Prokofy Neva

    Jan 31st, 2007

    Parsifal, could explain why holding to a point of view, sticking to it, refusing to be intimidated by all these raging lunatics here who do nasty stuff like try to cite mental disorder criteria at you in lieu of an argument, constitutes “telling other people how to live”?

    Where have I “told other people how to live?” I don’t tell them how to live. I do reject their efforts to tell ME how to live, however, or what to think. I simply refuse to genuflect. In fact, it’s so refreshing to see other people actually scratch their heads on and say, geez, what are those people talking about when they say the Internet relies on open source? Sure, they can think of this or that aspect, but to make such a blanket statement? No, they don’t make such blanket statements because they aren’t extremists. You are extremists and radicals, and rigid in your orthodoxy. You can’t accept that if someone *dissents* that doesn’t mean they are “taking over” or “telling you how to live”.

    That fallacy, at the heart of most of what the loons here serve up, always baffles me most of all, but I guess it comes from their raging desire to comform. I think it probably has to do with parental neglect issues? I’m just hypothesizing here.

    Basically, the problem is that geeks like to think *they* are the rebels. They think *they* are the dissenters against the status quo, and that they are waging the one, trust, just fight. So if someone comes along and dissents against *them*, they get all flustered. They don’t know how this can be! They ascribe to that person then the opppressive features of that Borg against which they see themselves dissenting, and can’t realize that as they are far from perfect, there are many things to criticize about them, too. That’s all I can think of. The horrid drive to conformity is really shocking in people so young.

    The tekkie-wikis got to be a problem in Second Life, even worse than RL, precisely becaue they are such extremists, young and unexposed to real-life realities and problems and the limitations on solving them, and so on.

    It seems to me that the reason the comments section has become boring and polemical is because every time I write a story, even just some news story about a development like the appearance of land bots, a shitload of screamers and extreme lunatics feel they have to fall down on me like a ton of bricks. Even otherwise sane people like Inigo have to start up a shrill screech about me being a “rapacious landbaron”. Seemingly educated and thoughtful people like Seolo begin ranting in all-caps in a hysterical pitch with some caricature of a money-bags land owner that she imagines is ripping off little defensive newbies. None of these people seem capable while in this hysterical state of seeing reason.

    When you have a pile-on like this, you could just ignore it, or give up, or walk away from it, but I don’t believe in letting extremists and bullies win like that, it’s bad for morale.

    Of course, if people who aren’t extremists were courageous enough to step up in criticism of the extremists, it would get easier, but when they see the brutal treatment these assholes meet out, they don’t want to risk it.

    I know that there are people who, every time Baba runs his mouth on the Concierge list or any group list, write to me in private about how disgusted they are. I know that even Cristiano Midnight was disgusted at Baba’s transcript from the libsl channel published on his forums, as were others stunned to see the cynicism. But these people are consumed with their own fears and petty hatreds and can’t recognize the principles at stake and leave me to fight it alone.

    I could say a lot about Pixeleen, Uri, Walker, Fiend, and others who are the editors or writers of the Herald but I think at the end of the day, they simply are either too busy, too timid, or too reluctant to alienate possible readers to stand up to the likes of Artemis Fate. What’s good for me to see is that on blogs with more intellectual street cred and visibility, Uri steps right up and puts people like Nobody promptly in their place. But he doesn’t want to take the time to get down in the wees on the Herald comments, I guess.

    So let me ask the question again:

    “Could you provide a pointer to something useful than exploits and bots that we can all recognize as useful that has come out of libsecondlife?”

  3. Nacon

    Jan 31st, 2007

    Prok: “So bait and harass away, Nacon, I don’t need to justify what I do, but you need to justify why you post with a nickname when you bait and harass reporters in the comment sections : )”

    So… you still have no idea who I am, do you? Comeon… it’s not that hard at all. If you can’t get my first name… then it’s proves that you can’t dig up facts.

    *HINT* my email address *HINT* Seriously, it’s not that fucking hard.

    Now listen doll, you’re just pushing yourself on a wheelchair over a cliff. I’m just standing there, telling how stupid you are. Sure, I can help, but why would I want to do that? Because you don’t listen and then think first… you think and then listen. I’m just a guy who don’t help people who can’t think for themselves when something is too simple enough.

    But of course, you won’t listen to people telling you what youre doing is wrong or even beyond stupid. It’s no shit that you want to think everything and believes you’re still right because you’re old, to feel like you have been there and done it before. I’m sure you haven’t been rolling yourself off the cliff like this one before.

    I’m not fooling anyone and you’re not fooling me either.

    The point is… I’m not trying to harrass you… just stating the fact that you’re a coward and you walked right into it.

    Artemis Fate: Honestly, I’d say Prok has a case of “Stage of Denial”, Oppositional Defiant Disorder in her childhood, and SIDD (Social Inattentive Deficit Disorder), or in other words, an close minded/stubborn bitch.

  4. Artemis Fate

    Jan 31st, 2007

    “I could say a lot about Pixeleen, Uri, Walker, Fiend, and others who are the editors or writers of the Herald but I think at the end of the day, they simply are either too busy, too timid, or too reluctant to alienate possible readers to stand up to the likes of Artemis Fate.”

    Interesting. You seem to believe that my criticism against your angry flaming diatribes on people based on nothing more than rumors conjectures and conspiracy theories is the source of all others annoyance with the Herald. Maybe it IS Narcissistic personality disorder, that you can’t even recognize that people think you’re angry and insane. Oh right I forgot, everyone that thinks that is just a tekki extremist.

    “Artemis Fate: Honestly, I’d say Prok has a case of “Stage of Denial”, Oppositional Defiant Disorder in her childhood, and SIDD (Social Inattentive Deficit Disorder), or in other words, an close minded/stubborn bitch.”

    Hmm dunno, seems like it mostly applies to kids and only in childhood. Problem is, I don’t think Narcissistic personality disorder involves the proper amount of paranoia, and I think Paranoid delusions involve not even narcissism. So my current theory is Narcissistic Personality disorder with paranoid tendancies, paranoia seems to be able to pop up indepedantly with most personality disorders.

  5. Parsifal

    Jan 31st, 2007

    I wasn’t thrilled with that transcript with Baba acting like a dolt either, but I did recognise that he wasn’t being serious, something you just can’t admit, even though you know it too, because if you do it undermines your premise for attacking tekkies.

    Listen – tekkies are all kinds of people too, with different talents and levels of ability.

    So fuck right off with your “tekkies think that they are rebels” bullshit. THIS is where your house of cards always breaks down – when you attempt to tell us what others think, feel and believe. Then, when there are a few bad apples, you want to go and paint all tech types with one brush? Sound familiar Ms. Despot? Prejudiced idiot. YOU CANNOT READ MINDS. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT MOTIVATES OTHER PEOPLE. The abject arrogance involved in that type of behavior is absolutely mind boggling. That is what pisses people off about you dickhead – you are consitantly pulling shit out of your ass and representing it as “fact”. Then, when people rightly go on the defensive, you pull out the “just reporting” card. Bullshit. They are naught but carefully planned attempts to manipulate people into believeing these AWFUL things you say about others. I think THAT is “evil”.

    A tekkie is no more apt to be an asshole than is a cashier or a truck driver or an… ummm.. russian translator who thinks she is smarter and wiser than everyone else on the planet.

    Look, I’m REALLY SORRY some jackass insulted your intelligence somewhere way back, probably during your stint at Xerox, and it enraged you so much that you had to become Witchmaster General and try to destroy a segement of the population for (ironically) whom the credit goes to for creating the very tools you use on a daily basis, but that does not mean every tekkie is like that. There are good guys and bad guys in EVERY field, and until you figure that out, you’re lost, and Nacon is right, you’re pushing yourself over a cliff in a wheelchair.

    You’re no Piggy, and this is not anything like Lord of the Flies. You’re no victim, you’re clearly the antagonist, What a crock of shit. I’ve been watching you since June, and its obvious to me who is to blame for these wars – you, the person who cooks up all these sordid “facts” with respect to why other people do what they do.

    Here’s a more apt link:

  6. Prokofy Neva

    Jan 31st, 2007

    I think it’s more than fine to judge people’s motives by their *actions*. Baba has repeatedly griefed me, and griefed events, and been a dick, inworld, on forums, in group IMs. The transcript is quite revelatory of his character. You can’t cause the kind of havoc and anger he did and then double back and say “just kidding,” that’s lame, and false. I don’t buy it for one minute.

    What’s laughable about your rant here, Parsiful is how you can bleat like a stuck pig about ME judging others or “reading their minds,” when in fact that’s what YOU are doing. “I’ve been watching you since June” — what, some kind of sick stalker? Have no life? Can’t take it? Have to dredge through people’s blogs or the Internet and unearth some RL fact about them working at Xerox? Huh? What kind of sick fuck thing is that?

    I’ve never “hated tekkies”. I had no beef against tekkies whatsoever. Mechanics, technical people, they are all needed and all people just like any people.

    But the tekkies of SL are a different breed. This is a zealous cult. These are people who brook no dissent, who shrilly attack others, who lord it over them, who take glee in their misfortune. That’s wrong. And I challenge them, and stand up to them, and that’s right.

    Pretty lame to be citing that old, fucked up “few bad apples” argument. Um, try at least 25 “few bad apples?” Try hundreds who stand idly by and make it happen? WAY than a few. And YOU are giving them a pass.

    Once again, let me go over it: what has libsecondlife done for the world of SL besides give us CampBot, CopyBot, LandBot? Where is the positive contribution? Where’s the Tang for all the expense of the Space Program?

    And Parsiful, you are a lame, pathetic asshole who cannot publish with a Second Life name. So I seriously have no interest in talking to you normally. It’s the depth of cowardly weakness to go posting on a nick here — it only makes us realize that all these so-called posters here are really just Nolan Nash.

  7. Parsifal

    Jan 31st, 2007

    Oh and prowacky – quit whining about people diagnosing you – I have seen YOU do it many times during your tirades on this publication and others.

    Double standards, they’re not just for breakfast anymore. It only stands to reason, what with you dreaming up all sorts of RL “facts” about others, while screaming so shrilly about people probing around yours. Hypocrite. That is not an attempt at a “gotcha”. That is fact, and there is a mountain of evidence to back it up.

    And I’ll add that I do think you have a personality disorder of some sort – it should be obvious to anyone who has watched you operate for a while – anyone who thinks that they simply cannot be wrong has at least a tinge of some malady. I am not going to attempt to ID exactly what is wrong with you because I am not in that line of work. If I were though, I’d probably want to study you.

    If you continually act like a raving loon in the public eye, concocting all sorts of conspiracies and half truths, then you’d better believe that people will note your behavior, and if it goes on for longer than a little while, they might be inclined to think that you’re a bit fucked in the head, and I agree with them.

    Your attempt to drag the tattered remnants of your glory days fighting the eastern bloc into a virtual space is at once pathetic and self indulgent beyond belief.

    I see it, and I hope others do too, because that’s all you are – you’re so shallow and narrow that you cannot move beyond the Soviet Union. What a waste, allowing one’s self to be defined by long past glory days. Then, to aggravate things, you have to try and foist that mindset and those memes onto the rest of us.

    I don’t care about or want to be part of your past, and I’m hoping and thinking that others feel the same way.

    Lessee – (I’m Prok for a moment)…

    I am banned from all official SL forums.

    I am banned from some non SL outlets.

    Many people think I am mentally ill.

    I attack people because of their perceived age.

    I attack people because of the fields they work in.

    I get booted from meetings because I try to filibuster them.

    I cannot make a critical commentary without resorting to calling people Bolsheviks (or outright profanites on top of it).

    I am the most loathed person in the verse.

    But hey – it’s not my fault – not one little bit.

    It’s all a conspiracy against me.

    Why? Because I’m Prokofy Neva, and you’re not.

    Snot noses.

  8. Maxwell

    Jan 31st, 2007

    @Prokofy: Kindly drop the act. You’ve been called out, shown – granted in less than kind wording – for who you appear to be (and that is going by what you type and how you type). If you do not like what people see being thrown back in your face … Then perhaps it is time to wake up and change the face you present?

    Now, on to your actual (and rather worthless) post, in particular the end segments. Personally I could not possibly care less about a group such as libsecondlife and their pet projects, however it does not take a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon to figure out that you have been viewing said project through the eyes of a person with a mountain size chip on their shoulder. Do you honestly think a company like Linden Lab is going to list exactly which bugs and exploits have been fixed due to libsecondlife? Do not answer that – it was a rhetorical question. Of course they’re not going to tell us – therefore you will never get your answer.

    As to your dismissal of a person’s posting based on the lack of a ‘valid’ Second Life Name: I have said it time and again, you have no ground to stand on “Prokofy Neva”. You use the name of a fictional character to hide behind and thus are as much of a coward as anyone else. No, I do not care if your name can be found elsewhere – you do not use it: That is what makes you a coward.

    The only other part of your worthless rambling that I object to – and would gladly spit in your face over – is the notion that you can say you do not “hate technical people” and then – in the very next paragraph mind you! – counter that statement by declaring any technical person involved in any way whatsoever with Second Life is evil, vindictive, and must be fought.

    Honestly, do you even read what you type before sending it off to the internet? That is another rhetorical question as it is apparent that you do not. I have several friends of the technical type that use second Life …. and not a one of them has ever treated anyone with disrespect. Not a one of them acts in the manner you would like to think they do. The only time they react in such a manner is when someone like you shows up or calls. Frankly I can see why they’d just love to tell such people to sod off …

    In the future kindly remember that you do not know everything and that your opinions are just that – opinions.

  9. Parsifal

    Jan 31st, 2007

    Uh, blogs are to read. If you don’t want people noticing that you worked at Xerox, don’t fucking say it.

    If I had a dollar for everytime you’ve told us about being a letter carrier and working for Xerox and the Uni in Canada and a russina translator, blah blah blah, I would be rich. It’s not stalking, it’s called comprehension and memory, silly. Simply info filed for future possible use.

    Oh and that’s another double standard of yours, bleating like a lost sheep about “I don’t believe in dragging RL into this”, but then you do it anyway when it suits your current argument.

    __I think it’s more than fine to judge people’s motives by their *actions*. Baba has repeatedly griefed me, and griefed events, and been a dick, inworld, on forums, in group IMs.__

    Then judge BABA. Maybe there is 25 bad guys, you still are wrong for painting all SLL tekkies as some sort of illuminati cult. It’s wrong, and coming from someone who supposedly fought for humans rights, well, that’s just pathetic and hypocritical.

    __Once again, let me go over it: what has libsecondlife done for the world of SL besides give us CampBot, CopyBot, LandBot? Where is the positive contribution? Where’s the Tang for all the expense of the Space Program?__

    I believe that they have reported many possible exploits to Linden Lab. Of course you will write that off and poo poo it, but I will take Cory’s word for it over yours, the Bill O’Reilly of SL.

    __And Parsiful, you are a lame, pathetic asshole who cannot publish with a Second Life name. So I seriously have no interest in talking to you normally.__

    Why in the hell would I put out my SL name, just for you to go profile trolling, and then IM my friends or business contacts to try and ruin my relationships with them? Fuck you and your canard about responsibilty. I don’t believe it’s about accountability at all for you. I think it’s just another avenue which you use to attack people, and that it pisses you off to no end when that avenue is shut down.

    The veracity and accuracy of things said while under alias does not change simply because an alias is employed.

    Truth be told – I was alerted to this thread by my GF – Panda – and we’re both quite female and not this nash character you throw out there whenever you yourself face a “pushback”.

    __I’ve never “hated tekkies”. I had no beef against tekkies whatsoever.__

    Really, well you indicated that RL tekkies are bad too, just not to what degree…

    __The tekkie-wikis got to be a problem in Second Life, even worse than RL__

    Oh and if your feelings for tekkies aren’t hateful, then I dunno what is. You colour your screeds with extremely inflammatory languages and make al sorts of wild guesses about why people do what they do, attributing the basest of motives.

    I’m outta here, arguing with you is like arguing with the clouds for coming oput and blocking the sun today. A complete waste of time.

    Have a nice life Witchmaster.

  10. Prokofy Neva

    Feb 1st, 2007

    Could we have a citation on a RL fact I’ve dreamed up for another? hello? And if I put that I worked at Xerox on a blog, so what? I wouldn’t think it tasteful or good form to constantly bang on somebody about their RL details, trying to dredge up some fiction about them, that they “hate tekkies” because they worked at Xerox. That’s absurd. This is Second Life. It really isn’t acceptable to keep trying to use RL as a coin of the realm to bash someone, when YOU YOURSELF are HIDING YOURS. The issue isn’t that I wrote about my life — the issue is that YOU ARE NOT, yet you feel free to grab this or that detail out of my life on my blog and blast me with it in some stupid, crude, and juvenile way. It’s just deeply fucked, and you know it, and I know it, and everyone reading this knows it.

    Once you’ve written YOUR RL details on a blog, then you might have some credibility trying to psychoanalyze by remote control based on tendentious reading of someone’s RL. You sure as hell don’t NOW.

    Um, Maxwell, there’s no “act” to drop. And I don’t have to “kindly remember” shit.

    What YOU have to do at this point — to be credible — is to tell us those good deeds that libsecondlife has accomplished?


    This was Hermia’s line. Trying to be the peacemaker in that post-town-hall discussion, she kept trying to bring the conversation around to the “bugs they found”. Finding an exploit ,USING IT TO HARM PEOPLE AND ENRICH YOURSELF, frankly doesn’t “count” as a “bug find” to me.

    So…could we hear WHAT bugs have been found that DO NOT involve self-enrichment exploits? Well????

    Doesn’t anybody else find it hugely telling that none of these fucktards here have been able to come up with a single thing positive that libsecondlife has done or created beyond the destructive bots???????

    You may find my working on human rights in Eastern Europe “glory days” — not an awful lot very glorious about it, it’s just hard work. And the same principles apply to fighting for human rights everywhere, and the country of SL is not excepted. It’s a nice, pat formula, for an asshole like you who cannot show any real-life OR second-life accomplishments, to cook up a fictitious “legend” of someone unable to achieve the glory of fighting Communism in the East Bloc anymore because Communism was destroyed (let’s say, to follow the hypothesis) and now they are doomed to eking out a marginal existence tilting at “commies” in a virtual world.

    Well, that’s just plain silly. First of all, the heirs of communism remain, as abusive or more abusive, and there’s plenty of work to be done in this part of the world, and I do it. Secondly, SL has some of these elements, if you reason by analogy (not as to scale or actuality, but by analogy) and I think it’s worth bothering with Bolshevism that lays at the foundation of the Metaverse. It’s just worth fighting for the way it will have such an effect on us.

    The idea that I would “troll your friends” or “IM business contacts” is insane. I don’t do that. I have no time for that. You are PROJECTING, hon. YOU do that sort of thing, and live in fear of it being done to you. I recall that once, when I saw Joshua Nightshade make a total ass of himself claiming to be helping “domestic violence” and being mentioned as a “help” to this cause — but he wasn’t. He is violent, abusive, and mysogenist. He is a deeply fucked and manipulative little prick. Everybody who seems him in action on SC (and you may be him for all we know) can see how sick and fucked he is. He routinely lies in the most outrageous ways, claiming, for example, falsely, that I went to his store and IM’d people not to shop there. That’s silly. I’d never do that, even with my worst enemy — because it’s fucky ridiculous. I think telling someone trying to gain a high profile reputation in SL that their cause is sullied by having a real certified creep on their profile is merely a public service. Writing the person once or twice is not stalking, but alerting them to the damage their noble cause will suffer. If you try to extract out of that *good* deed something that is “stalking” or “trying to ruin a business,” you are simply *retarded*.

    Human rights doesn’t mean you drop identification of vicious criminal gangs that collectively grief and harm people. You don’t say you can’t “tar with the same brush” when you can see a negative, ugly, vicious social movement in a group. There’s nothing sacrosanct about collectives; indeed, they are used to cover a multitude of sins — as they are being done now. There are 25 people we counted banned from SL for being in W-Hat. Every single one of them is a certified, documented, hands-on griefer. That’s hard for you to admit — you’re one of them. This isn’t “group association,” it’s calling things what they are.

  11. Maxwell

    Feb 1st, 2007

    @Prokofy: I’m sorry, but it seems you’re incapable of grasping even the simplest of notions here, so I’ll put it in words you can understand, hmm?

    libsecondlife not required tell people what exploit Linden get from them.

    This means that you’re never going to find anything on record – nor am I. give it up already.

    Yes Prokofy, there is an act to drop – You are not “fighting the good fight”. You never were and never will be. You are fighting your own fight – that is all.

    Personally? I despise people that go about pulling the crap you pull while trying to hide behind that guise. It makes me sick. I think I’ll just do what some of my friends do if they are confronted with a person incapable of learning or simple comprehension: Goodbye Prokofy – don’t cry when you encounter the real evils of the world.

  12. Prokofy Neva

    Feb 1st, 2007

    Oh gosh, I *love* that concept. “Libsecondlife not required to tell what exploit LL get from them.” See what I mean about how open source=closed society? This is rich, rich. A closeted, secretive bunch filing secret stuff to Lindens who keep it in secret. I love it. Great concept!

    No, I am afraid this is in fact a VERY good fight to be fighting, and the more I see of it, the more I see how important it is to fight.

    Um, what guise do I hide behind? None. Instead, you do. And despite all the hand-flapping going on here, I still do not have ONE SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE that libsecondlife provides ANYTHING WHATSOEVER of use to anyone other than their selfish scammers. Hello? Crickets.

  13. Just a thought

    Feb 1st, 2007

    Kindly get over yourself Prok, from what I can see you’ve had it explained to you over and over again and you still don’t get it. Here it is in idiot speak:

    Linden Lab will not tell anyone anything they feel they do not need to know. Period, end of discussion, end of debate. This includes any and all bugs found and fixed by libsecondlife before the open source occurred.

    I do hope that’s simple enough for you to wrap your head around and if not … too bad. The fact of the matter is that these bugs and exploits that may or may not have been found and turned in (after all, we’ll never know will we?) would be the sort Linden Lab would want no one to know about.

    I find it amusing that several people now have told you how you come across … and you still attempt to blow it off as some plot or insult. Get back to reality please ….

  14. Prokofy Neva

    Feb 3rd, 2007

    Just a thought, in your mom’s basement, far from real life, you have no concept about how corporate responsibility is either given freely by socially-conscious corporations — and they can be just conscious of their bottom-line in order to be socially-conscious at the lower levels — and how corporate accountability is wrested from corporations by the public — and they don’t have to be anarcho-windobreakers at Starbooks, they can just be good litigators : )

    When you grow up, this silly idea that corporations don’t have to answer to customers, or don’t have to explain what they’re doing, or get to ride roughshod over people will be something you leave behind in your mom’s basement, along with your Legos, your video games, and your crypto-fascistic Internet memes.

    In fact, the actual track record of the Lindens, who are grownups unlike you, gives the lie to every single fucking words you write on here : )

    They tell us about exploits, bugs, problems, limitations constantly, way, way, WAY more than anybody could ever hope from a regular game like WoW.

    In fact, what you’re doing, in your pathetic, dweeby little way, is trying to hitch your lamerz wagon to something you think is a powerful Borg that will crush people you don’t like. You yourself are so wimpy that you can’t crush people with economic power or intellectual reason, so you figure you’ll line up your stars with something that *can* take care of all you imagine to be your enemies.

    That might work, if LL was the nasty and brutish thing you imagine. But it isn’t, despite what you read in the Herald : )

    I think I’ve made pretty short work of the utter paucity of not only your faux logic but your worthless inner being. Please desist. Get a job, and get a haircut, too, son.

  15. Panda

    Feb 3rd, 2007

    Prok, the only thing you’ve made short work of is your own credibility with your continued personal attacks. I’ll quote you again, you seemed to miss it the first time. It’s so hard for you to respond to your own words when you meet yourself in the door.

    “Try to discuss ideas, and stop it with the personal attacks.” – Prokofy

    You don’t want to discuss ideas. You want to rant, and you want to discredit anyone who has the audacity to disagree with you.

  16. Just a thought

    Feb 3rd, 2007

    Prok, when you come back to reality you’ll realize just how much of an idiot you really are. I have a newsflash for you: You’re nothing, a nobody, meaningless as far as any corporation is concerned. They are concerned with only one thing: Profit. They will do anything they think they can get away with to turn said profit and nothing your fantasy addled mind can come up with will ever change that fact.

    With each and every word you type you show yourself to be the hypocritical, paranoid, utterly brainless person so many people see you as. You have no clue do you? None at all. Of course, when someone dares to disagree with you, what do you do? you resort to personal attacks!

    Grow the fuck up, get a real fucking life, and leave the people that exist in reality alone for a change. Jesus Christ, you’re worse than any lack witted politician – at the least most of those know when to pack their bags and go home.

    Speaking of Home by the by, Russia called: They want their psychopath back.

    In all seriousness Prok ….to me, you’re little more than some tired, dried up, senile, paranoid-delusional, pseudo-intellectual bag of hot air. NO ONE with a real intellect resorts to the kind of bullshit that you put up on the internet – except under times of extreme duress and anger.

    You’ve more than proven that you cannot follow your own twisted ethics, what happened to not using personal attacks? What happened to sound logic? Hypocrite.

  17. Prokofy Neva

    Feb 3rd, 2007

    >You don’t want to discuss ideas. You want to rant, and you want to discredit anyone who has the audacity to disagree with you.

    I think their failure to come up with a single positive thing that libsecondlife has produced in the last year is probably discrediting them way more than anything I’ve said. And I do discuss ideas; just ideas that are hard for you to grasp, and difficult for you to accept. You imagine that everyone should conform to that lukeward, mediocre, tekkie religion of idiocy that passes for knowledge on the Internet. I’m the one with the audacity.

    Go ahead, Panda, um…discuss an idea. I double dare you.

  18. Panda

    Feb 4th, 2007

    Prok, yet again you fail to respond to your own words calling you out as a hypocrite. Instead you go on another rant making up shit about people you don’t like. So much for discussing ideas.

  19. FWord Utorid

    Apr 30th, 2007

    Developing something that is broadly viewed as ‘beneficial’ will always be a difficult challenge, for libsecondlife, or the inventor of the horseless carriage. Doing it amidst the insanity that seems to permeate around Second Life is damn near impossible, but it will come.

    Some people welcome the future, other people fear it.

    The truth is these are tools and the good or bad comes from the intent which they are used. libsecondlife is like gasoline. You can use gasoline to run your vehicle and go to work and church to feed your kids. You can use gasoline to make a molotov cocktail and blow up an orphanage. (no, you can’t, it’s an example, don’t be stupid.)

    No tool for good cannot be used for evil. A gun can protect your family from a criminal or it can enable a criminal to kill your family.

    A chocolate bar can make you happy, a chocolate bar can kill your dog.

    The fact that this is not grasped by one typative, excessively opinionated, controversy whore… does not change the BALANCE OF NATURE.

    I’ll not bend to Prok’s whims and fulfill her demands of “prove it”, but there are some interesting and useful tools out there that aren’t damaging SL. Perhaps if Prok were any sort of a journalist there’d be an effort to look for it.

Leave a Reply