Island Land Scamming, Anyone?
by Pixeleen Mistral on 18/02/07 at 10:48 pm
Former residents claim Valentines day eviction massacre in “The Tropicana” sim, hire SL/RL lawyer to arbitrate island land dispute
by Pixeleen Mistral, National Affairs desk
I met one of a rare breed Saturday. Joshua Sao is a 5 month metaverse resident who owns “The Tropicana” island sim yet cannot recall when he bought his island, or the amount of his monthly tier payments to Linden Lab. It is also difficult for Mr. Sao to remember exactly how many residents he evicted – although eventually Mr. Sao told the Herald he evicted “2 or 3 tenants” for what he claims is non-payment of rent.
However, a group of 7 turfed-out ex-residents have hired SL/RL lawyer Monday Beam to represent them – and say that rent was not due until the 24th. After the Valentines day evictions, some former resident of “The Tropicana” sought help from Linden Lab suggesting that they had been defrauded. Those residents report they only got blank stares from the LL staffers – and a reminder that island owners have absolute power in their tiny fiefdoms.
For the evicted residents such as Rhea Newall and others the stakes are high. Documents obtained by the Herald – including screen shots of transaction histories from the Second Life web site – suggest that residents were evicted from Mr. Sao’s land after paying L$40,000 – 50,000 (around $170 USD) to “buy” the land and L$5,000 for a month of rent. Without the ability to re-sell the virtual land they “bought” from Mr. Sao, the evicted residents are looking at significant financial loses in the virtual land game. Mr. Sao is apparently now re-selling the recently vacated land.
The Tropicana after the house cleaning
While angry ex-residents want their money back, Mr. Sao may be under financial pressure himself. His land tier payment to LL is coming due in a week, and he has an under-rented island on his hands – and a number of residents actively discouraging others from “buying” his land. Of course what “buying” means in this context is unclear.
land in this region may be resold – by who?
If an island owner such as Mr. Sao decides – for any reason or no reason – to evict or ban someone the victims have little recourse – although in theory the Linden lab databases contain records of all resident transactions. This suggests that some sort of permanent public record of land deals and agreements could help resolve these situations – but given the unstable state of the grid, such a service may not be forthcoming from the Linden game gods. It is ironic that this sort of service is not available in a synthetic world with a land-based economy where clear choices are made about what features to include – but perhaps the Lindens want to create more inter-resident drama.
Mr. Sao is not a fan of the Herald and has now banned three reporters investigating the situation from “The Tropicana” sim – but as best we could determine all of the land Mr. Sao currently has “sold” was deeded on or after February 14th – when he evidently decided to clean house in his sim and “restructure” his holdings. *cough*
Astute readers will note Mr. Sao’s sim has a name that is quite similar to another sim called “Tropicana”. At press time it was unclear if the owners of “Tropicana” sim have issues with Mr. Sao’s “The Tropicana” name. This raises interesting questions about sim naming rights and possible land-name confusion that go far beyond this case. Should we expect the Lindens to auction name reservations next?
In any case – the lines are drawn between one land owner and his former tenants. We wish Mr. Monday Beam Esq. well in his arbitration efforts and hope to have a followup story later this week. For those feeling smug that they have avoided this sort of problem by “buying” land directly from the Lindens, recall that they too can ban “for any reason or no reason” and it may take recourse to the RL justice system to recover your assets – if you are lucky.
Mr. Sao’s associates prepare a warm welcome for Herald Reporter Prokofy Neva
if some is good, more is better
the hazards of investigative reporting
Anikal
Feb 18th, 2007
Mr. Sao had to use associates to keep a reporter from doing a bit of investigation: Rather sad, might I say.
My sympathies go out to those residents who were evicted for no apparent reason.
Alex Fitzsimmons
Feb 19th, 2007
While I don’t harbor a great deal of respect for Prokofy … in general, really … I think it’s safe to say that Mr. Sao and associates managed to prove here that while Prokofy may be somewhat lacking in class, he has nothing on their ability to sink lower, faster. At least in this case.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 19th, 2007
That’s a pretty pointless and stupid and vindictive thing to say Alex. I merely went to report a story that the Herald was asked to report on. Pixeleen was banned, so I went to see if I could find out the group, the class of sim, etc. And I was fire-bombed off, as I think another reporter was too. I was merely trying to be helpful to these very agitated tenants who were scammed, whom I didn’t know.
What does that have to do with lacking in class? You can find me as having class or lacking it, it’s really immaterial, but I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with land scams or scams of anything, and implying that is just fucked.
And where have I sunk “lower, faster”? Merely in criticising your BDSM cult. I stand by my criticism of slavery, violence and coercion. That’s hardly relevant to this story here about a land scam.
Eddy Stryker
Feb 19th, 2007
I brought up this exact scenario to a couple Lindens about a month ago and asked how something like that would be handled, and their response was “we don’t have an arbitration system in place for resident to resident transactions”.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 19th, 2007
Couldn’t help but post to this. This is my biggest complaint with Linden Lab– and yes, it is their fault. The base financial system on Second Life is land ownership, and yet Linden Lab TOTALLY ABSOLVES themselves of the need to enforce land agreements between members. Their “blank stare” attitude cost my group 3 sim. We’re not the only group to be ever ripped off in a land deal. The unscrupulous and unethical rip people off every day, confident in the knowledge that Linden Lab will do nothing about it.
Which comes back to the cry that has been going around for a few months now: SECOND LIFE IS THE WORST FINANCIAL INVESTMENT YOU CAN POSSIBLY MAKE. There is no contractual enforcement, no business-based moderation on the board. The very Linden Lab TOS absolves the company of not only all responsiblity in fraud committed on their board, but of all responsibility to moderate such (ie, you enter the world, you’re on your own). Now this wouldn’t be all that bad if no serious money was involved. If people just paid a small monthly fee, fine, LL can absolve themselves all they want. But people invest THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in this board.
Considering Linden Lab’s user policies, their unstable platform, the fact that they could close down the board tomorrow and owe their users NOTHING…. Second Life is one of the worst investments a person can make.
I can understand newbs being suckered into this (we certainly were). LL makes all kinds of claims when selling islands that later are found to be bogus. But for experienced, in-the-know users to keep investing in a system that is known to be teetering on a flimsy foundation, with NO legal recourse to speak of– imho to invest further in such a system is just plain goofy. That’s the reason Elf Clan shut down, pure and simple. We cut our losses and cut out before foolishly investing any more funds in the Linden Lab fiasco.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 19th, 2007
One important way of helping to create public transparency and peer pressure on these sorts of problems is to have the system publicly register every land sale. It already does record each land sale as such; it just doesn’t publicly record them. The auction only saves for 5 days then goes down the memory hole. But LL just doesn’t show that on the web — no doubt their own dbases go back forward.
There ought to be a way for all land transactions to show up somewhere so they could be searched. So if you saw that on The Tropican island all these parcels sold and then whoops they’re all for sale against 7 days later, you’d be given pause.
But the Lindens are not going to lay this on. Only residents could do this. They’d have to find a way to start making a county deed office.
As with any system like this, it’s easier to take those who follow the rules and have them comply and reinforce and institutionalize the idea of compliance, than it is to go chasing after those who violate rules. So you exand outwards with compliance. This concept runs counter to the code-as-law cult, but it is the way civilization is built up in Rl.
I remember I actually used to diligently record all these things myself, and kept records of early sales and rentals in Ravenglass and neighbouring sims. But it got too hard to keep up. And then with reparcelling, selling prim land, changing land from one group to another, accommodating neighbours’ wishes to trim off and sell stuff — it just gets too hard to keep up.
I even used to keep a record of the auctions to try to find patterns of timing and barons hitting it at certain periods, etc. and I know Tiger Crossing had a very extensive dabase of auction buys.
Perhaps those islands that start offering a deed office will build up respect. All you can do for those that scam is name and shame them.
Alex Fitzsimmons
Feb 19th, 2007
“What does that have to do with lacking in class? You can find me as having class or lacking it, it’s really immaterial, but I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with land scams or scams of anything, and implying that is just fucked.”
That’s not what I said. You misunderstood me. I said they were proving they could sink “lower, faster” than you. In other words, I was saying, “Yes, Prokofy is pretty bad, but in this case, he was actually the victim, and these people really showed what asses they could be.”
Sorry it wasn’t clear. I thought it was.
janeforyou Barbara
Feb 19th, 2007
Linden lab can claim any thay want on the TOS or make up rules—But thay cant run away from there responsebillity, if i invest 5000 USD real cash in land and pay also for the service i own it no matter wat LL say. LL owns the severs but i own wat i payed for on that server, just like any other web page on any other server, you pay to own for somthing you own it- you rent somthing you dont own it.LL are not above the RL law.
So i say its safe to buye land from LL… its not safe to “buye” land from a land baron.
secondlife
Feb 19th, 2007
Good Stuff!
First Toolbar for Second Life from
http://www.sl-toolbar.eu
Lewis nerd
Feb 19th, 2007
I wonder whether the juice brand of “Tropicana” might have something to say about the name anyway.
I see the island is designed in the “Anshe Chung” cubist style… if you want to see how a real island can be set up, in a way that will attract renters, take a look at Independent Island.
Lewis
bubbles
Feb 19th, 2007
The perils of pumping real money into a silly computer game come home to roost. There is nothing to protect you from being scammed, but hell, that ain’t going to stop fools and their money. They’re dealing with anonymous people, they don’t know the names or addresses of the people they are sending money to!! Am I the only person who sees the utter folly here?
Urizenus
Feb 19th, 2007
Whether this is just a game and whether there is nothing to protect you is up to the courts in cases like this one and the Bragg case. If the courts decide they have jurisdiction then there will be precisely the same protections there are with any contract. Whether we signify agreement to a contract on paper, parchment, a verbal agreement, or chat in a virtual world won’t matter. It’s really up to the courts to do the right thing now.
Raideur Ng
Feb 19th, 2007
Huzzah for owning land on the mainland, and not *renting*, owning it. Islands may have more prims… or better neighborhoods, but also have rules….rules which can be broken depending on who you are.
Economic Mip
Feb 19th, 2007
Well after a lovely tea with Mr. Sao I have come to the conclusion that he is either a sociopath or an idiot. He did however give a short and very one sided chat with Pixeen (text from 19:57-20:03), and nonchalantly admitted to bombing Prok. Also questioned whether the Herald was “professional” (Kicking people off their land does seem rather unprofessional though).
Prokofy Neva
Feb 19th, 2007
That’s not what I said. You misunderstood me. I said they were proving they could sink “lower, faster” than you. In other words, I was saying, “Yes, Prokofy is pretty bad, but in this case, he was actually the victim, and these people really showed what asses they could be.
No, I understood you perfectly well.
No, I’m not a victim, I’m merely a reporter in a virtual world where people can shoot me and bomb me but, hey, it has no consequences except to be pushed away.
No, I haven’t sunk low nor deprived myself of “class” because I’ve criticized BDSM. There’s your error. Criticizing BDSM’s slavery, violence, coercion, cruelty, and duplicity (as we see in these very posts here) isn’t “sinking low” — it’s actually keeping a very high moral and intellectual standard which I’m proud to be upholding.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 19th, 2007
What’s admirable about the Second Life society is that the island scam is the actual tiny percentage exception to the rule, which is thousands of people pay perfect strangers manually, or through scripted boxes, and it all works. Most of the rental agents on island and mainland are reputable. They don’t scam.
People often bring hysterically high senses of entitlement and demand to what is often a mere $1.50 or even $10.00 US rental. The less people pay for a rental, the more their sense of screeching entitlement seems to escalate, along with their threats. Being a landlord is very tough work in SL, I can tell you. Everybody has a story.
But seriously, the miracle of Second Life is that it really is a nation of landlords and tenants. Many people save money and risk by renting and they seem pretty happy. It’s what makes it possible. Owning your own land outright is always going to be better than renting, as in RL. But unlike real life, it won’t save you money, it will cost a lot more, especialy these days.
It seems to be a peculiar feature of SL scammers who feel a special kind of brazenness that they don’t hide, or admit their guilt and scurry away, but tough it out and keep word-salading you until you begin to think, hmm, maybe those folks didn’t pay their tier or something. It’s very hard to get at the facts then. LL, which could easily get at the facts for you by checking transaction records and such, refuses to get involved.
Gorean Furry
Feb 19th, 2007
Protard, are you saying BDSM is slavery? You’re fucking nuts. You’re trying to claim moral high ground over something you don’t have any fucking understanding of.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 19th, 2007
Yes, it is slavery. “Consent” doesn’t make it not slavery; consent is a very, very shakey concept. And one of the ways the cult makes itself felt is by always trying to keep everyone labeled as “ignorant” and “not having any fucking understanding” blah blah blah — they can never know enough, understand enough, get it enough, and must always *against their will* be bending and bowing and scraping to “get it.” No thanks!
It’s a bedrock principle of common law that consent is not defense in assault — among the many other gadzillions points about this that have been made a trillion times by me and others here on the Herald, google the old archives and read.
Fiend Ludwig
Feb 19th, 2007
Ahh…to be a protard. I must work harder on my writing to if I ever want to graduate from the rank of amatard.
Fiend Ludwig
Feb 19th, 2007
Ahh…to be a protard. I must work harder on my writing to if I ever want to graduate from the rank of amatard.
Fiend Ludwig
Feb 19th, 2007
…and on my comment posting skills. Ack.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 19th, 2007
LOL Fiend, excellent reply to the “protard” comment.
Uri, when did SL Herald become a flamer board? I mean, I know conversations and discussions are pretty much open and sometimes can get heated, but isn’t there a difference between very vocal opinion and direct, intentional attack upon other posters?
Not my board, but maybe time for SOME moderation to keep the trolls and maturity-challenged in line.
Urizenus
Feb 19th, 2007
Sorry to interrupt this rich flow of ideas, but Virtually Blind has contacted the attorney Monday Beam, and he reportedly says that he expects a settlement in which the plaintiffs are repaid their money plus attorney’s fees. Here is the article:
http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/02/19/second-life-in-world-attorney-monday-beam-hired-for-land-dispute-expects-settlement-attorney-fees/
Frankie Antonioni
Feb 19th, 2007
Why not bring in the mafia to settle it.
Couldn’t they handle it.
Urizenus
Feb 19th, 2007
RL lawyers are scarier than virtual guns, it seems. Go figure.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 19th, 2007
I hope that Monday Beam is able to achieve something here. He doesn’t have to be a RL lawyer to achieve it in fact; in fact, the power of the pen in the press is part of what achieves the peer pressure.
I have to say, though no one asked, that I do wonder about Mondey Beam’s RL credentials. He doesn’t say which state or country he is admitted to the bar. He gives a long list of things he supposedly specialize in which merely sound like a law student’s courses — it’s not what real-life lawyers in fact all provide in one solo practice lol. Not sure what’s up here, but for a virtual world, virtual lawyers work OK too. Especially at the prices he asked, which were scaled to SL.
Alex Fitzsimmons
Feb 19th, 2007
It was my fault a certain someone got onto an unrelated topic, and in any case, however valid I feel my opinion of a certain person may be, it was wrong of me to slip that into my comment the way that I did. For all of that, I apologize.
The topic at hand is much more interesting to me in any case. I hope there’s a follow-up on this story as new information becomes available.
Urizenus
Feb 19th, 2007
“licensed to practice in Illinois and U.S. Federal courts.”
Sounds like he passed the Illinois Bar.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 19th, 2007
That’s not on his profile inworld.
Here’s what the profile inworld says:
“Monday Beam, ESQ. is a RL attorney, author, hobbyist-actor/filmmaker and futurist, interested in exploring the fledgling virtual communities present within SL. Areas of practice include Criminal Defense, Family Law, Estates, Wills and Trusts, Real Estate, Personal Injury and various Pro Bono causes. My office is also currently providing real life (RL) contracts for “in game” (SL) business situations. Feel free to stop by for a legal consultation from an atypical lawyer.”
Under First Life, it says on line:
“Too good to be true?”
The “licensed to practice in Illinois” must have been something he gave verbally to Blind Justice.
Ask yourself whether someone opening up a solo practice would be both a criminal defense attorney AND personal injury AND wills and estates AND real estate — unless it’s some dinky little town I guess, I dunno. I’m merely noting the reaction of a RL attorney who looked at this.
And…how can we know…?
And…does it matter anyway?
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 20th, 2007
Yeah Prok, you hit it on the head. I like to give folks benefit of the doubt and accept such claims until proven otherwise. Like you said, “Does it matter?” In fact, that comment covers not only most of SL, but a lot of the internet itself. I realized one day that a post in a blog or forum is read by about one millionth of one perccent of the human population. LOL. Kinda puts things in perspective.
But as for the diversified legal areas– yeah, that’s not too uncommon, especially in small-town lawyers– especially if they like to eat on a daily basis.
Cat Cotton
Feb 20th, 2007
When there are no predefined/enforced set of rules from LL when it comes to land and the “rental” system they have set in place… ppl will take advantage of any and all loop holes and use them to their advantage in a most distasteful way. Why is this news to anyone, it’s just business as usual in the land of LL.
Cat
Tad McConachie
Feb 20th, 2007
Many landowners, and I would guess the vast majority of the popular ones, will never do anything underhanded to their renters. My own landlord for example has a reputation that’s probably worth far more than the twiddly bit of money that he might could scam from me. If I’m going to rent property on a private sim, I’m going to make sure I rent from a landowner who’s established and has something to lose if s/he’s caught being a bastard.
Blackstone
Feb 20th, 2007
Monday Beam, is to my understanding a licensed attorney in the Chicago area who in RL is a Criminal Defense Attonrey, liscended in Illinois for about five or six years. What his understanding of virtual law, what little of it there is, I do not know.
Martin Squeegee
Feb 21st, 2007
What have I always said? Rental is bad – it can end is tears (having a told you so moment)…
the answer… hey I’m predictable but you should BUY mainland – no rent, no arguments all good…
Don’t forget Land Barons/traders can help you in this buying thing… IM me if I can help
Martin Squeegee would be in his office in Julia Creek if only he could get to it…
Allana Dion
Feb 21st, 2007
Alex: >”It was my fault a certain someone got onto an unrelated topic, and in any case, however valid I feel my opinion of a certain person may be, it was wrong of me to slip that into my comment the way that I did. For all of that, I apologize.”
No Alex, it’s not your fault. It’s one of those topics that Prok is unable to release his pitbull grip on. So he automatically colors everything you say and do with that one aspect he knows of your life whether it’s relevent or not.
As to the actual topic, it’s clearly becoming more and more obvious that LL’s hands off approach to things like this just doesn’t work. They have all the proof at their disposal and the ability to make a judgement and mete out justice and they simply choose to not bother. With that as their policy, things like this are simply guaranteed to keep happening over and over.
Monday Beam, ESQ.
Feb 23rd, 2007
I did say I was an “atypical” lawyer, didn’t I?
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 23rd, 2007
>it’s clearly becoming more and more obvious that LL’s hands off approach to things like this just doesn’t work. They have all the proof at their disposal and the ability to make a judgement and mete out justice and they simply choose to not bother. With that as their policy, things like this are simply guaranteed to keep happening over and over. — Posted by: Allana Dion | February 21, 2007 at 01:55 PM < Truer words could not be spoken. We’ve been telling LL that ever since I was a newb (what, 2 1/2 years now?). They don’t listen, they insist on the same polices that continue to fail their customers year after year, their board continues to be unstable, bug-ridden and their “hands off” policy obviously doesn’t work. Their board by sheer statistics obviously is not successful. Yet they stubbornly tred the same, old, tired path. Ugh.
That’s why I left SL, that’s why I stopped dumping $$$ into Linden Lab, that’s why I no longer support SL or LL in any manner. I have far better things to do with my time.
Of course, blogging while I’m eating is still a lot of fun…
Bun
Mar 11th, 2007
I read this article and it is highly in accurate in one portrayal, the picture depicts me and without my permission of having my photo posted in this article. The thing that upsets me is the picture of the reporter was reported as we attacked him, however, after several polite requests for him to leave and stop harassing us, which have nothing to do with the situation he refused and was then met with a way to be forced to leave. I feel that this is not only harassment but blatant abuse of power. I have made sure that every group I and my friends associate with are made aware of this harassment and will continue until a formal apology is made to myself and the other guests depicted in this photo.
The accurate conversation that occurred between the reporter and the guests at this location, was him being insulting, impolite, childish, and not to mention a violation of our rights, from harassment, stalking, and a blatant attack on the guests personal character I would only assume that this newspaper should get its facts straight before reporting so little truths, and
Prokofy Neva: Hi, what’s the deal Joshua?
Prokofy Neva: Did you press the wrong buttons?
Guest 1: seriously dood .. we are having fun .. bye now
You: prokofy please leave , harrasment isn’t cool in rl or gamelife thank you you have been warned
Prokofy Neva: We were asked to check out the story by some irate tenants.
Prokofy Neva: Do you have a comment?
Guest 1: and you have checked it out .. so what is the point in harrassent?
Prokofy Neva: It’s not harrassment, it’s coming and asking if you have a statement on your side.
Guest 1: over and over and over
Guest 1: is harrassment
Joshua Sao: what is that
Joshua Sao: oh my stalker
Joshua Sao: nice
Guest 1: another damn herald harrasser
Prokofy Neva: So what happened?
You: its harrasment when you were asked to leave and you send your cronies in after the others were banned now kindly leave
Prokofy Neva: No, just a reporter.
Guest 1: heral harrasser
Prokofy Neva: Does mom know you’re up this late Joshu?
You: well I guess were going on air at our radio station and banning the herald now
Guest 1: hahaah omg that is a classic line
Guest 1: yep
Prokofy Neva: will she be mad about the credit card?
Guest 1: ok that is being a reporter how?
Prokofy Neva: well I’m asking some basic questions
Guest 1: ooo keep taking pics
Prokofy Neva: readers have been agitating
Guest 1: josh .. old man
Prokofy Neva: well you can always opt to put your sim on acces-only
Guest 1: it is your best look
Prokofy Neva: it’s opn now
Joshua Sao: if you could not tell by the previous bans you are not welcome here
Guest 2: wow i thought you had to be fluent to be a reporter
Guest 2: apparently not
Guest 1: rofl
Joshua Sao: your stalking has voilted the SL TOS
Guest 1: lets have fun wiuth this one
Prokofy Neva: no, it’s just a question, that’s all
Prokofy Neva: did you press the wrong buttons?
You: well everyone lets turn him in lets file reports against him andmaby they will get the message there the newspaper thinks there the police
Joshua Sao: you can leave ort I can remove you
Guest 1: stalking
Guest 1: harrassment
Guest 1: stupidity
Guest 1: childish
Prokofy Neva: hmm you don’t know how to right-click eject avatars????
Guest 2: oh we know how
Guest 1: lol hookers
Guest 3: LMAO
Guest 2: we also know how to respect peoples dignity by asking them to leave politely first
Prokofy Neva
Jun 27th, 2007
This fellow Bunnerz Vavoom is now harassing me in world, demanding that the Herald make a retraction of this story, and remove the pictures I took of my firebombing, and their captions.
Apparently this fellow has taken offense because he is one of the virtually unrecognizable avatars in this picture showing mainly fire prims and my singed prim hair, and some virtually unrecognizable avatars in the scene.
Apparently he is very upset at the caption put on my picture by the Herald, “Mr. Sao’s associates prepare a warm welcome for Herald Reporter Prokofy Neva” — though he is not named in the story.
Now why is this before-unnoticed-and-invisible person Bunnerz up at arms? Because apparently OliveEue Sholokhov at the ill-conceived SLBB has put this article and picture from the Herald up in the SLBB lobby as a kind of deterrent, so that those seeking to avoid being defrauded in island sales can avoid problems. I’ve got at least one angry IM from a resident blaming me for this, althoug neither I nor the Herald have any relationship to the SLBB.
What can be done about this situation? Perhaps Bunnerz is telling the truth, that he was “merely an innocent bystander,” and is not an associate and has nothing to do with this business. However, the full chat log, which I’ve saved and reprint below, seems to give an indication of association. I’ll let the Herald readers and editors judge for themselves, and make any adjustments they feel necessary.
I do want to point out that inworld, Mr. Vavoom falsely accused me of bearing a weapon, and shooting first. In fact, I merely came to check the land ownership because Pixeleen had been banned, and to take photos of the land ownership men on the group and the land. In fact, I was ejected from the sim after being fired at. I was merely attempting to do my job here, as I feel it’s the public’s right to know when land swindlers dupe people out of their island purchases.
[20:45] You: Hi, what’s the deal Joshua?
[20:45] You: Did you press the wrong buttons?
[20:46] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: seriously dood .. we are having fun .. bye now
[20:46] Bunnerz Vavoom: prokofy please leave , harrasment isn’t cool in rl or gamelife thank you you have been warned
[20:46] Carduccis Sticky Green: puff puff pass… the air is full of weed smoke
[20:46] You: We were asked to check out the story by some irate tenants.
[20:47] You: Do you have a comment?
[20:47] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: and you have checked it out .. so what is the point in harrassent?
[20:47] You: It’s not harrassment, it’s coming and asking if you have a statement on your side.
[20:47] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: over and over and over
[20:47] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: is harrassment
[20:47] Joshua Sao: what is that
[20:47] Joshua Sao: oh my stalker
[20:47] Joshua Sao: nice
[20:47] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: another damn herald harrasser
[20:47] You: So what happened?
[20:48] Bunnerz Vavoom: its harrasment when you were asked to leave and you send your cronies in after the others were banned now kindly leave
[20:48] You: No, just a reporter.
[20:48] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: heral harrasser
[20:48] You: Does mom know you’re up this late Joshu?
[20:48] Bunnerz Vavoom: well I guess were going on air at our radio station and banning the herald now
[20:48] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: hahaah omg that is a classic line
[20:48] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: yep
[20:48] You: will she be mad about the credit card?
[20:49] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: ok that is being a reporter how?
[20:49] You: well I’m asking some basic questions
[20:49] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: ooo keep taking pics
[20:49] You: readers have been agitating
[20:49] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: josh .. old man
[20:49] You: well you can always opt to put your sim on acces-only
[20:49] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: it is your best look
[20:49] You: it’s opn now
[20:49] Joshua Sao: if you could not tell by the previous bans you are not welcome here
[20:49] Yatchu Ginsberg: wow i thought you had to be fluent to be a reporter
[20:49] Yatchu Ginsberg: apparently not
[20:49] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: rofl
[20:49] Joshua Sao: your stalking has voilted the SL TOS
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[20:49] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: lets have fun wiuth this one
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[20:49] You: no, it’s just a question, that’s all
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[20:50] You: did you press the wrong buttons?
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[20:50] Bunnerz Vavoom: well everyone lets turn him in lets file reports against him andmaby they will get the message there the newspaper thinks there the police
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[20:50] Joshua Sao: you can leave ort I can remove you
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[20:50] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: stalking
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[20:50] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: harrassment
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[20:50] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: stupidity
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[20:50] DJNaughtyJay Valentine: childish
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[20:50] You: hmm you don’t know how to right-click eject avatars????
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bunnerz vavoom
Jun 27th, 2007
I asked a question to you and the reports of your news paper to retract an untrue statement, because of this article people that I know and myself are being harassed unfairly and now He posts my name on it so here is my extent of harassment for all to see who the true victim is. By the way, reporter, you don’t do your homework as obvious to the fact that your reporting me as a guy.
It is rather sad, how in the attempt to help victims you only help ones that can benefit you some how. I am a victim by you and that doesn’t seem to matter.
This was sent to Provoky and several other people:
(clearly not harrasment a simple request for my rights to be protected)
Bunnerz Vavoom: I thank you for your time, I was visiting a friend and a reporter from the Herald came and harassed me and several guests. He then posted an article stating we were associates with the person in which they had the complaint about. I have sent several requests to the Herald that they retract certain aspects of the article that are not based on fact and they refuse to contact me. I was posted in a picture displayed as attacking someone, I again was an innocent bystander and was under attack by a reporter by being shot at, called names, and after several requests that he leave, he went against my rights and posted a photo stating that I and a few of my friends attacked Him. I am writing to tell you that my photo was posted against my rights, both in the Herald and the Business Bureau after several attempts to have my fair rights protected I met with no compromise and continue to be depicted as something I am not. I only ask that my fair rights are taken in consideration, and that my ethics are protected.
Prokofy Neva: I don’t know what you’re ranting abuot Bunnerz, just protest on the blog, it’s open to anybody to comment on.
Bunnerz Vavoom: I did
Bunnerz Vavoom: you didnt retract it
Prokofy Neva: Why should the Herald retract something they’ve reported in good faith?
Bunnerz Vavoom: I just ask that my photo is removed as you lied saying I was his associate and I was not , I was a guest at someones home
Prokofy Neva: you’re welcome to put up your point of view — the comments are all let through
Bunnerz Vavoom: that wasn’t good faith I was there
Bunnerz Vavoom: you came, harrased me and my friends
Prokofy Neva: Who is the author of the story?
Prokofy Neva: who is the “you came harassed me and my friends?”
Bunnerz Vavoom: I and my friends asked you to leave both politely and some of them rudely, and you only continued your harrassment
Bunnerz Vavoom: you
Prokofy Neva: You don’t have any “rights” not to be reported on when a reporter is covering an attack and being shot at?
Prokofy Neva: I didn’t harass anybody, I coverd a story.
Prokofy Neva: Perhaps you don’t understand how news works?
Bunnerz Vavoom: you shot at me
Bunnerz Vavoom: first
Prokofy Neva: I don’t have any weapons? I don’t shoot people?
Bunnerz Vavoom: you did harrass us
Prokofy Neva: I have no idea what you are talking about.
Bunnerz Vavoom: is it not harrashment if your asked to leave and you don’t
Prokofy Neva: I don’t harass people, you sound like you’re making up stuff.
Prokofy Neva: Look dude, if someone is bothering y ou, you press “eject”
Prokofy Neva: now if you have comments, you put them on the blog and stop haranguing me inworld
Bunnerz Vavoom: did I have anything to do with this confortation, did you ask if I was an associate or did you just assume and write inaccurate facts
Prokofy Neva: the comments are moderated but all are put through
Bunnerz Vavoom: no I have the full conversation posted at the herald
Prokofy Neva: well post away
Prokofy Neva: I didn’t shoot or harass anybody — that is a bald-faced lie.
Bunnerz Vavoom: I have its been there several moths
Prokofy Neva: I went to cover a story.
Bunnerz Vavoom: you did so
Prokofy Neva: And your complaints are coming in rather late *cough*
Bunnerz Vavoom: you called us names, you said josh needed his mommy, said does she know he has her credit card
Prokofy Neva: is this because this article has been posted in the lobby of the SLBB?
Bunnerz Vavoom: no becouse now my picture is being posted
Prokofy Neva: well perhaps that’s at issue when someone resells land? that people paid for and expected to keep?
Bunnerz Vavoom: I can’t eject as a guest can I
Prokofy Neva: I think the public has a right to know
Bunnerz Vavoom: sure they have a right to know
Prokofy Neva: well you can ask your little friend? the one with his mom’s credit card? I dunno
Bunnerz Vavoom: but………………..
Prokofy Neva: surely you jest dude
Prokofy Neva: you’re just trying to make trouble
Bunnerz Vavoom: you didn’t write some of it accurately
Prokofy Neva: take it to the comments
Bunnerz Vavoom: you didn’t ask if I was an associate
Prokofy Neva: I reported the news as it was right in front of me, I took pictures
Bunnerz Vavoom: you said I just shot at you with no reason
Prokofy Neva: what has that got to do with anything?
Prokofy Neva: What were you doing there? And why are you bringing this up NOW?
Prokofy Neva: and if you didn’t shoot anyone, how can I believe you when you falsely claim I bore weapons and shot people?
Bunnerz Vavoom: you reported lies, you said we attacked you but didn’t say after several requests that I leave, and the guests that had no eject righs had to take actions in there own hands, then I left..
Prokofy Neva: everyone knows that is completely untrue
Prokofy Neva: the owner can eject people, and in fact, did?
Prokofy Neva: and you don’t get to shoot at people and fire prims at them
Bunnerz Vavoom: becouse I am posted in a picture at the bb and I didn’t do anything wrong, i tp’d to friends
Prokofy Neva: sorry, but you’re out of line on that one
Prokofy Neva: ok well sounds like you want to draw MORE attention to a story than anyone would have EVER paid to it!
Prokofy Neva: so go ahead, go for it!
Bunnerz Vavoom: I posted the conversation it wasn’t untrue
Prokofy Neva: well post away
Prokofy Neva: I posted the same
Prokofy Neva: *shrugs*
Bunnerz Vavoom: I wasn’t the owner I was a guest minding my own business and harrased by you
Prokofy Neva: I didn’t harass anybody, I came there on assignment, to check out a claim about some unethical land dealings
Prokofy Neva: I came only to check land ownership and take pictures
Prokofy Neva: you are interfering in the right of the free press to cover matters of public interest
Bunnerz Vavoom: if you take the photo down I won’t have any issues or take out HIm and his associates theres not an issue right
Prokofy Neva: people’s money was stolen
Prokofy Neva: I’m not aware that any false claims have been made about you
Bunnerz Vavoom: so are you, your interfering with my rights and causing me harrassment, lies against me, demeaning my name all becouse I was somewhere at the wrong time
Prokofy Neva: If your friends shoot people, find better friends.
Bunnerz Vavoom: thats not my issue
Prokofy Neva: well see you in court then, because you are completely hysterical.
Prokofy Neva: it’s not my issue either
Bunnerz Vavoom: if people were hurt , thats between them you and josh
Bunnerz Vavoom: right
Prokofy Neva: you are defmaing yourself by stirring up shit lol
Prokofy Neva: truly retarded
Bunnerz Vavoom: I am only asking that you retract that HIm and his associates , I am not his associate
Prokofy Neva: Im’ done with this conversation, take it to the comments.
Bunnerz Vavoom: no my son is retrarted sir and he wouldn’t ever treat some one the way you have
Bunnerz Vavoom: of course you are becouse your wrong, if you were right you would sit here and be reasonable
Prokofy Neva: I had a daughter who was retarded who died, and I reserve the right to use the word retarded any way the FUCK I like asshole
Bunnerz Vavoom: I only ask that you remove from the article that becouse I was at His land, that I was his associate or take out the picture nothing more
Prokofy Neva: it’s an idiomatic expression, don’t try to emotionally black mail with your personal crap
Bunnerz Vavoom: yeah I am asshole becouse you have no manners or self control
Prokofy Neva: No, I am not wrong, I reported on a group of people who shot at me, I took a pictuer of them shooting at me
Prokofy Neva: find better friends
Prokofy Neva: take up your problems with the SLBB
Prokofy Neva: not with the Herald
Bunnerz Vavoom: I wasn’t there to be with him
Prokofy Neva: goodbye
Bunnerz Vavoom: thats the point
Bunnerz Vavoom: you reported wrongly
Bunnerz Vavoom: you didn’t ask who was friends, who was associates, you only said everyone was associates
Prokofy Neva: It’s irrelevant to the story, next time don’t stand in a group of people shooting at a reporter? Goodbye.
Bunnerz Vavoom: I will take a picture of you then and put it on the herald, and would that be fair
Bunnerz Vavoom: your wrong and I am referring this entire conversation to the owner of the herald.
online shopping
Nov 27th, 2007
Sheez, real life is complicated and stressful enough. Who wants to increase their stress and buy land in a virtual world?
At first I thought the money was all fake – but it seems that there is sometimes real money being passed around here. Am I the only one who has a stressed enough life that he can’t see the value of getting more stressed in a virtual world, with it’s new rules, politics and what else?
Someone above said that Second Life is the worst financial investment you can make. Duh! I say. Of course it is. Play if you’ve got money, if you enjoy gambling or something. Otherwise, you’re just adding more stress and complications to an already complicated life.
Surely no one’s life is THAT boring that they need to get so heavily involved in this virtual world.
Queensmama Graves
Feb 3rd, 2011
Warning about SAO Estates run by Joshua Sao in Second Life.
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/54801-what-do-about-real-estate.html
Gundel Gaukelei
Feb 3rd, 2011
Oh, Joshua causing trouble again? Just make him play tic-tac-toe against himself.
Common Sense
Feb 4th, 2011
You cannot own land in second life or real life, you can simply pay for the better rent rate of taxes or tier with your large upfront investment. Nobody owns land here. Nobody owns land there, its a gross illusion.
If im wrong and you own it try not paying taxes or tier(rent) and see where your house go’s. If you owned it you wouldn’t be subject to rent