Op/Ed: It’s Always My Fault
by Pixeleen Mistral on 02/02/07 at 6:31 pm
Getting blamed for something you didn’t do, or had no control over?
by Seola Sassoon
With each Second Life release, problems afflict some citizens, while others simply say “it’s fine for me”. What do these who have no problems have in common with Linden Lab? They both blame the victim! The droning advice of “update your video drivers, uninstall and reinstall Second Life, get a better video card, get more RAM” etc. comes from both sides. What’s an av to do these days!?!?
I’ve experienced problems in the last 3 updates – and yes, I’m up to date on my drivers. I may not be a techie genius but I do know a bit about computers – and if I didn’t change anything, I know it isn’t my problem. I’m up to date, not overclocking my computer, no problems with heat, etc. I never crashed EVER – nope, not once – before until January. I digress. I’m not the only one, though.
This last update has brought on a nasty stop/start lag in even the most calm and destitute of sims. And again, I’m not the only one. So I run the gamut of the normal advice and alas, still having problems. I spoke with quite a few people in game who are having the same problem, while it’s obviously not scientific nor conclusive; everyone I spoke with was running nVidia 7000 series cards, which is supposedly the fanboi card of LL. It could certainly be a coincidence. Those are certainly over what they deem necessary for ‘comfortable’ SL play. Their idea of comfy?
* Internet Connection: Cable or DSL
* Computer Processor: 1.6GHz Pentium 4 or Athlon 2000+ or better
* Computer Memory: 512MB or better
* Video/Graphics Card: nVidia GeForce FX 5600, GeForce 6600, or better or ATI Radeon 9600, X600, or better
I have what – 9 months ago – was considered near high end gaming:
* nVidia GeForce 7600 GT
* 2 gigs of Memory
* Intel 3072 Mhz Processor
* Several large fans with in and out flow and dust guards
* XP Home Edition
* Pretty clear side with blue light – good looks are important!
Last time I checked nVidia 7600 was better than 6600, so what am I doing wrong?
And what are these people doing wrong?
Gillian Waldman says, “Separately, this viewer seems to have gone back to the “stuttering” for a couple seconds thing. Even with 2gig RAM, 256 NVidia GeForce 7900 (I believe)”
Alynna Vixen says, “am experiencing a problem in the Windows viewer. My client will halt every 1/2 to 1 minute for anywhere from 1 to 4 seconds, causing it to go into a (not responding) state.”
Funk Schnook says, “I’m getting a video stutter/pause too. This is the first update that has ever caused this for me”
That’s just a sample of complaints out there.
While I sit and try to figure it out, more posts from the “official” blog to the forums to 3rd party websites are popping about the stop/start issue. A few people who’ve been seeking out Lindens have asked why it’s happening to be told that it’s the users fault with the usual things to do. Here’s our great advice!
Gigs Taggart says, “The new client has been very stable for me. Consider that SL puts a large strain on your hardware.
Update your drivers, and if that doesn’t work, try a new motherboard/CPU. I had a motherboard/CPU that worked fine in some 3D apps, but others would totally crap out. Since replacing it with new, stable, hardware, everything has been great.
SL has been getting more and more stable over the last couple version. I can’t remember the last time I had a client crash, it must have been at least a month ago.
That’s almost verbatim echoing Linden resolutions, not only this update, but many before it. The Lindens told us that not only in world and in blog, but in Linden Answers as well. And excuse me, but what the hell kind of client, when something goes wrong requires reinstalls? How is it possible that almost every menial problem can be solved with a reinstall? I don’t know about you, but in my job, if whatever project I was doing kept getting corrupted, I wouldn’t have a job.
So what else do we get told? Buy a Mac. Well frankly, Macs suck for gaming in my opinion as they stand right now. Ironically, even Macs aren’t immune.
Xah Toll says, “i’m using a Mac. With today’s update, every time i started to walk or fly, it crashes within a minute.The only way it won’t crash is that i don’t walk, tp, or fly. Just using IM to chat. But even that, the rainbow spinning wheel will come on for like 5 to 10 seconds. So, as of now, i’m unable to play. Nothing like this happened before”
I guess we are all a bunch of techno-idiots with crappy computers.
So where’s Torley to placate everyone with watermelon wishes?
Last blog post? January 19th with the Linden Answers forum closing post. Before that? January 15th with a blog makeover. And before that was January 10th with the status updates. 5 blog posts from Torley since December 8th.
Has LL taken heed of others complaining of Torley’s “everything’s sunshine, even when SL is broke”, or the “I’m doing all I can, love me!”? Or, as a last option, since LL has decided to stop offering customer service, Torley is really no longer needed? Torley’s personal blog is active btw, so she’s not really gone, but conspicuously missing from the LL blog and I haven’t spotted her in world.
Seola Sassoon
Feb 2nd, 2007
Was perusing the Herald when this was posted, but I gotta say:
I draw a hell of a comp!
Urizenus
Feb 2nd, 2007
A work of art. Is that the Dell you put together on Dell Island?
Cat Scratch
Feb 2nd, 2007
I have hiccup hell and crashes as well. Nvidia 7800 GT, 2 gigs of DDR2, AMD X2 Dual Core 4200+ and hard drive space galore. Should that not appease the Linden Gods??
Maybe it is not what WE use to run SL as much as what THEY use to provide it?
Onder Skall
Feb 2nd, 2007
As if to prove the point, the grid is down at the moment. A rolling restart was begun without notice for a few hours to “address database load”, whatever the hell that means. They shut comments down on that particular entry as well.
Maybe I need a new computer so that the “database load” will stay “addressed” and they won’t need to do a rolling restart to “address” it.
Seola Sassoon
Feb 2nd, 2007
Yes, Uri! lol
Cat, you may be on to something! lol
Onder, I’m not sure if that’d be ironic or paradoxial…..
Just a thought
Feb 2nd, 2007
funny, I don’t have any issues on my Pentium-D processor, ATI Radeon X1300 series PC …. 2GB of RAM, 160GB Hard disk set to have 4.087 GB of it as virtual Memory ….
I even enabled VBO in the standard client (right under render in the client menu.).
The ONLY time I’ve EVER had any issues with teleports or inventory etc. has been in SIMs packed to capacity. Funny that eh?
Oh – and my connection is a Verizon DSL setup … no remote hub or central office within miles.
Spankubux
Feb 2nd, 2007
Watch out, Just a thought…here at the Herald, it’s only in vogue to complain about LL. If you note that you’re not “having problems” you get smeared by someone like Seola in an article/op ed/sequence of grunts.
BTW, in keeping with the Herald’s fine tradition of “quality” journalism, Seola, did you get permission from Gigs Taggart to quote him?
Shitty publication. Shitty writers.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 2nd, 2007
I spent two scary days last week unable to use my game. I had customers out the wazoo, I couldn’t rez a house, I was crawling at two inches a minute to try to lock doors, I was going mad.
I tried EVERYTHING.
Ok, here’s my secret, which I’ve now used twice when EVERYTHING else failed — defrag, clean, wipe, update drivers, close all windows blah blah blah — none of it is working, but there’s still that one little tihng and here it is, you ready???
UPDATE YOUR MOUSE DRIVERS
Yes, wierd, eh? Who would eVER think of such a thing. This Linden? The one that used to dress up as a fireman? I can’t think of his name. I think his name is Steven now. He tipped me off to this concept.
I have an ancient Logitech mouse which I just happen to like. I updated the drivers — amazing difference. I glided though SL like a knife through butter. Life COMPLETELY changed for me.
Then…another patch, the same crap again. But it couldn’t be my mouse AGAIN, because there weren’t any new driver updates in that short span of time. But fiddling around, I ended up re-installing my mouse drivers aga — walla, butter again.
And a third time — just now — update mouse drivers, i.e. reinstall what was already installed — perfect. Works like a Swiss watch.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 2nd, 2007
BTW I have NVIDIA 6100 only, and I had the stutter, and not only on SL, on WoW too and just on normal sites watching videos of the news. I updated the drivers with what SEEMED like the right updates, but it is so frustrating trying to get the right info out of NVIDIA, there is no obvious update to 6100 or even beyond. I put it in anyway. It worked…then sputtered again. I did all kinds of diagnostics out the wazoo. I tinkered with all that stuff in that Windows XP fixer. None of it mattered. Did the mouse drivers, it all went away.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 2nd, 2007
Torley is being deprecated?????
Seola Sassoon
Feb 2nd, 2007
Then why do you come here?
Hell, I don’t even care of JaT all that much, but not having problems, great! But in the strain of the conversations I’ve watched unfold, that’s what usually happens, the user is blamed for lack of computer parts, not knowing how to install the update, etc. It was the perfect example and it was legible.
Also, his comment was public on a public blog, without requiring sign in to view them. So were the others. Additionally, there is no ‘disclosure’ statement on thier official info. I have never quoted anyone by name that says something in a private conversation without their permission. In fact, I’ve spoken with people on the other issues as well who ask not to be named or quoted or even that I spoke with them, and so I didn’t.
Obviously, you enjoy it and you enjoy all the posting, because any mature person, who didn’t care for something, wouldn’t even take the time to come. But eh, what would your life be without the Herald and the stories that you can bash to make yourself feel better?
Seola Sassoon
Feb 2nd, 2007
Prok, I did the mouse driver updates, but I’m in the boat with you on an ancient mouse. I can’t bear to give up a good laser mouse and I’ve had it for… I think 4 years now. Hell, there’s not even much paint left. I’m still having the stuttering issue.
I haven’t had it before though. I play WoW, EQ2, JO and Horizons and the only time I did have the stutter WAS user error. After a fresh redo on my hard drive, I forgot to update drivers.
What I’m curious, is if this fixes so much, why is it kept so ‘secret’ so to speak? And what exactly went corrupt in your mouse drivers to require a reinstall? That certainly seems like an outside roundabout problem, that, if true, means SL is corrupting drivers…. that’s not good.
Seola Sassoon
Feb 2nd, 2007
P.S. Computer experts are now saying not to defrag a whole lot. It can cause corrupted files on it’s own running (Wahoo Microsoft Rules!11!). I only do it every 6 months now and my computer is defintely better doing it LESS.
Micah Giha
Feb 2nd, 2007
This does not sound like a stability issue which would be fixed with newer hardware. I am using a system just barely above ‘recommended’ specs (AthlonXP 2000+, 512MB, ATI 9700) and have not seen this problem yet.
Given the symptoms, I would suggest trying the following: First, clearing your cache (this will slow things down for a while until the cache is rebuilt while in world). Second, uninstall and reinstall the new client if this has not already been tried. Third, possibly trying an OLDER video driver since sometimes new driver optimizations cause new and unexpected problems.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 2nd, 2007
Micah, those of us with problems are SO FAR BEYOND the old “clear cache/reinstall/downdate drivers” issue I can’t TELL you. Seriously. We have all been there and back. It’s not the problem. Definitely.
My sputtering stop; now I’m back to freezes and hard crashes. I have looked at every goddamn thing on the machine, and since WoW and even Russian video works like a charm, I have to figure there’s something up with SL that I’m not meshing with anymore. I can at least fly — but why the hard crashes?
You know, I was going to get a new graphics card? And I thought…uh…why am I doing this? Because the next patch might put it another way…
Anonymous
Feb 3rd, 2007
One thing you can do that will have the biggest impact in your Second Life performance is to set your graphics memory to 16 or 32 MB under preferences>advanced graphics tab. I don’t know why, but with the way SL operates, to have it at 64, or even more ridiculous, the default 128MB upon intial install, is going to PO your computer quite a bit
. I remember when I first got the game I was very frustrated with the constant crashing even when I wasn’t in a very populated sim, and changing that setting had the greatest effect on every computer I have played the game on, from a crappy laptop with onboard graphics, to an uber gaming rig.
Bottom line is: SL’s code still needs a lot of work.
Seola Sassoon
Feb 3rd, 2007
Thanks Micah for illustrating my story. (That is not meant in a rude way, it’s just what I was speaking of in the text.)
I’ve ran fine for more than a year at 64, though I do agree the default 128 seems to throttle the system more than the lower settings, but I did try out the 16 mb setting (with full restart) and I’m not getting the stop/start…. I’m full out crashing. On 32, I’m having the stop/start glitch.
As a side note, this was BEFORE the rolling restart so I haven’t checked if it’s fixed, I generally take Friday nights off SL.
And btw, WTF is up with this wonderful new building bug? I try to edit a linked part and it disappears! I have to rerez (creating thousands of objects, yay.) and hope it works. As if the texture bug and the stop/start wasn’t enough to deal with, they say ‘fuck it’ and decide to disappear altogether!
Rock Ramona
Feb 3rd, 2007
I ve got an idea,uninstall SecondLife and never come back,your computer will run fine and you will never be upset or have anything to complain about again because this over bloated piece of 4 year old crap platform we call SecondLife will be out of your life.Run as fast as you can and dont look back,send me gifts for saving you countless hours of heartache from this permabeta nitemare(yes,i made that word up,permabeta,)
Seola Sassoon
Feb 3rd, 2007
Yeah, but even with all the problems…
I’m still an addict (or maybe I’m a ‘I’ve got nowhere else to go’ player).
Jolie May
Feb 3rd, 2007
The relogging I can handle,the pausing although a pain I can survive the complete wiping of my inventory after the last update I can’t, and have my complaints or questions been answered?? not at all, one of my comments was even wiped from the blog earlier..nice.
Micah Giha
Feb 3rd, 2007
Prokofy & Seola: Please excuse me for going around with my newb-ness exposed in a PG area…
For the type of problem(s) you are describing, those sort of ‘stock’ solutions should have an effect. The fact that they DON’T indicates that LL has a significant problem with this release.
Has anyone had the stuttering problem or seen it reported with any ATI/AMD graphics hardware?
I will now attempt to rez a box onto each hand to prevent my typing any further silly suggestions.
Seola Sassoon
Feb 3rd, 2007
Micah, I didn’t mean it to sound bad, but if LL employs this on the newcomers, then they think it’s the perfect response to everything. It’s not necessarily that they are being rude, it’s just the merry-go-round cycle and the older players have seen it all when it comes to fixing it from ‘our’ side.
As for AMD, I’m sure out of all the complaints on the blog, I would think someone has to have it, it was just never mentioned that specific card.
archie lukas
Feb 3rd, 2007
hmmmmm
as anyone watched the clock recently
I have put up three, London, New York and Los Angeles
When we Brits are wake in the morning and the US is fast asleep in their queen size beds, SL behaves very well indeed.
Not had an am crash for days.
AS soon as the Americans come on board, (about the 21,000 mark), the system slows dramatically and US friends have to re-boot at least 3 times some nights, our connections then suffer totally software failure, not a lock down, but the old style Win 95 Flash and its gone, along with memory resources.
In fact as the sun advances across the American continent, the load gets worse and the crashes more frequent and also the rolling re-starts always occur about 2am GMT (True Greenwich mean time for all on the other side of the pond).
Soooooooooo
The point is, this has nothing to do with the lack of my system, which is a video cutting firebolt, well above any spec required; this is all to do with the server load and unfortunately SL is a victim of its own success.
Too many users on too little hardware.
Maybe another couple of server farms to reduce and spread the load (re-balance the databases in Linden lingo)?
I doubt whether more land masses will cure anything other than the profit margins; it will certainly lead to more processing activity, which goes back to my point.
The hardware required to cope with the workload has been outgrown.
Does World of Warcraft fall over 3 -5 times an hour? No.
Archie Lukas
Computing Professional
Scientist
Medical Author
(trust me)
Seola Sassoon
Feb 3rd, 2007
Oh we know what the problem is, in the real world, but in their fantasy, it’s all our fault and they run everything perfectly.
Seola Sassoon
Feb 3rd, 2007
P.S. Anyone seen Torley yet? Should we start a watch group?
Gillian Waldman
Feb 5th, 2007
Hello – the issue has been acknowledged and commented on by both Torley and Frontier Linden. They are aware. You can follow the bug (if you’re interested) at http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=163747 and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-92 on the public bug tracker. They are aware and they are working on it. I think Torley is fantastic.
Seola Sassoon
Feb 5th, 2007
This is certainly interesting Gillian. So we finally hear from Torley, but it’s NOT on the blog. *tin foil hat* Why doesn’t Torley make aware of this in the blog? Is she banned from posting there anymore? In fact, both of these places are rather obscure to the new blood in SL. The first, being forums of course, they’ve been mostly quiet on there so I quit watching. What irks me is that it took them HOW LONG to comment somewhere? And why exactly isn’t there a blog post about it? I’d certainly consider this a mass problem…
I’ll admit, that Jira Viewer thing, never heard of it. That’s not to say people don’t know about it of course, but in the blog post with the actual issue where people mentioned it, the Lindens are quiet. Since when have they taken back to the forums to announce knowing about problems? We’re told to watch the blog for problems…
DAMMIT, PICK A SPOT!!!!!!!!!
(Kudos to Gillian for finding Torley and pulling a post out for the first time in a few weeks!!!)
(For reference, Torley has posted a total of 7 whole times since the New Year, only three times in the LA forum, which refered to the blog, and the second post of ‘where’s Torley’, which gives this tidbit -
“”"”Thanx for asking. I’m still here at Linden Lab! Very much so.
I did take a vacation during the holidays. I’m continuing to be on the Community Team as a Community Developer of Communications (or “Community Team Spirit”, take your pick of fun titleage, hehe.)
As we find ourselves in the New Year… much change is afoot!
I haven’t been so much on the forums recently because my endeavors have been focused mainly elsewhere.”"”"”
Which goes on to say the blog, and all the other usual places… but still lack of public info on Torley or public sightings still makes me wonder…)
Gillian Waldman
Feb 5th, 2007
OK – so this was a rather interesting process. I was having trouble getting a Linden to admit there was an issue. I went through every channel I could – and finally got Frontier (who was very helpful) on “Help Request” to acknowledge it. Then I e-mailed Torley and asked him to at least review the thread I mad and my entry on JIRA. He did. It was escalated. The fix should hopefully be in 1.14. I am certain they knew and it would have been fixed regardless of my hunting
This is not a problem everyone has – but yes, thousands do have it so it’s serious. I don’t know why they didn’t acknowledge it on the blog in the “workarounds” post – but perhaps they want everyone to learn how to use the proper bug reporting tools rather than posting on the blog (or in the forums). As you know, there is no workaround for this. It just makes the “game” a heck of a lot less playable.
As far as I know, posting a thread on the forums is no way to get a bug registered. In this case it was only helpful to 1) show the scale of the issue and 2) link to the JIRA tracker there.
Overall, there are ways to get bugs on the radar if you’re sure it’s not a system issue on your side
In this case, we all knew it wasn’t. We just didn’t know what had changed on the SL end – though it was clear something had.
Hope it gets better soon!