Astrin Few’s Open Letter: Fix SL or I’m Out
by Urizenus Sklar on 08/03/07 at 5:30 pm
An Open Letter to Second Life Residents
Astrin Few, SL Musician
Posted on blog.slmusic.org , March 8, 2007
(reprinteded here at the request of Astrin Few)
As I approach my fourth year in Second Life, I’ve reached a decision point regarding my future participation in SL. After spending countless hours performing, helping organize RL events, helping new musicians get a start in world, and generally having a good time, I’ve become so deeply frustrated with the low performance and broken functionality of Second Life that it’s just not as much fun. Notices are broken on the Live Music Enthusiasts group, presumably because it is large and SL does not scale; this has led to the fragmentation of the live music community, as musicians form new, small groups on which they can announce their events with notices. Teleports from profiles are disabled, which makes it much more inconvenient to teleport an eager listener to your show between songs. Chat is horribly lagged pretty much everywhere, leading me to move to Yahoo Messenger to talk to my friends, so we can actually have a conversation and not just stare at our avatars typing away. Oh, and the typing noises still require that polite listeners at music events prefix everything with a slash to not pollute the audio stream with typing noise. The list goes on and on.
It’s been a long time since Linden Lab put anything really useful into SL that works (and that’s allowing that the addition of the FMOD stream player in version 1.2 “works”). For quite some time now, there has been more and more that is broken and degrades the experience.
I still love performing live shows in Second Life. But that’s about me and my listeners. I’m lucky if my stream works for them when they listen with the embedded stream player. I’m lucky if my event actually made it into the Events listing. I’m lucky if the sim doesn’t crash. I’m lucky if my listeners can chat without too much lag, and I’m even lucky if my guitar rezzes and they can see me holding my electric guitar, and not my acoustic.
So, in short, I have come to a decision. If Linden Lab does not, in a timely manner, fix the group notice bug; if sim performance doesn’t improve; if I can’t teleport folks to my shows off of an IM profile; if a sim crashes during my or another musician’s performance; if the introduction of the new avatar voice feature degrades performance even more; basically, if SL performance doesn’t return to the level we enjoyed back in, say, 2005, then I’m out. It’s back to 100% RL for me. But on my way out, I’ll send a letter to the editors of magazines that have shown an interest in Second Life entitled “Why I Left Second Life.” I want the readers of Technology Review, the magazine that made me aware of Second Life, to understand what happens when a beautiful idea is destroyed by incompetent technical management. It’s an important lesson, and I want to share it. I’ve devoted a large fraction of nearly three years to Second Life. I’ve performed well over two hundred concerts. I worked hard for the music program at SLCC06. And technical incompetency at Linden Lab will be what ended my contribution.
It’s quite simple. I’m OK with the fact that Linden Lab has done virtually nothing to support live music in SL. But I’m fed up with the performance of the Second Life platform. And downloading and viewing the viewer source code gave me no further confidence in Linden Lab’s ability to write code that really works. As an owner of, and senior developer at, an Internet application company, I have some expertise in this. I’ll wait for Google or someone else to create a new 3-D virtual community that is functional and not overcome by buggy, extraneous features. But I hope a miracle occurs and Second Life becomes adequately functional again. Soon.
Sincerely,
Astrin Few [Sam Hokin, sam@bsharp.org]
Joined SL in April, 2004
First musician to perform live concerts in SL
Otenth Paderborn
Mar 8th, 2007
Bye. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Kami Harbinger
Mar 8th, 2007
I’m always baffled by “Make It Like the Good Old Days Or Else!” rants like this.
I remember pretty accurately what SL was like in 2005, when I started; the grid was extremely unreliable and completely open to attack by griefers, and supported no more than a few thousand concurrent users. I had to use a 64m draw distance to get >10fps on a good machine; the same machine now gives me 15-30fps at 256m distance. Now, the viewers can stay up all day and the grid stays up for weeks at a time. That’s surprisingly good given the 30K+ users, lurching towards 40K+. It used to be that 20 users in a region was okay, 40 was unbearable, more than that caused a region crash; now I’m able to walk around in sims with over 100 blinged-out users.
I go to live music quite a lot. Haven’t seen a lot of problems; usually one or two people on low-quality machines drop out, but everyone else does fine. The typing noise is easily avoided by turning off UI sound effects in your preferences when at a concert. How can someone be involved in live music regularly and not know this? What alternative is there, removing the sound effect from the client? The typing sound is useful the rest of the time. Heck, *video* actually works these days. And by works, I mean doesn’t crash the client after 15 minutes.
As I understand it, offer teleport on profiles is only disabled for strangers, it works fine for friends and groups. Even if you can’t make that work for you, add a pick for your location, or drop a landmark on someone. Any newbie could figure this out. There’s no more telehubs (except in some islands), so you don’t have to hand-hold people to get to you. Just tell them where to go, and they can teleport themselves.
There are certainly bugs, and the recent disasters with classifieds and search and events have been obnoxious, but LL does seem to be fixing those and compensating people for their payments. Vehicles are currently pretty bad, and region crossings are sluggish, but those are reported on JIRA. I assume LL will get to it when they can.
As for the code, I’m also a senior software developer, and the SL codebase looks about typical for a real-world application. Maybe a bit above typical, given the rapid growth and insane time pressures they’re under.
Ultimately, whining and screaming and threatening to move to some hypothetical perfect 3D world that won’t have any problems because it’s made of pure Magic Pixie Dust, and tell the press… That’s childish and doesn’t solve problems. Filing bugs and talking to LL like an adult about things that are wrong solves problems.
Prokofy Neva
Mar 8th, 2007
That’s quite sobering.
I have large gropus too, and there is so much dysfunctionality in them now, I’m becoming more and more convinced they should just say, look, groups have a capacity of 250 people. After that, we can’t promise that they’ll load and send out notices. I wish they’d just come clean on this. Then groups could be shuffled and relays developed.
As a landlord trying to wait on tenants, the loss of the ability for me to offer teleport, or more important, for the clients to offer teleports instantly on the profile is just a HUGE drag. I don’t understand why that makes a load on the database; doesn’t force-friending and teleporting from friendship cards do exactly the same load? I really wish that functionality would be restored. It’s one of the things that makes p2p rational; if p2p cannot really function as advertised, my God, bring back the telehubs and distribute the load that way!
As for the typing, what’s especially annoying here is that about 3 versions ago or so, the Lindens had a function available if you accessed the list of avatar animations on the debug menu that was called “typing” or something and you could toggle it to OFF.
That turned off the idiotic typing avatar PERMANENTLY and I was very very glad to be free of him, not only for live concerts but because due to *another bug* having to do with having Cyrrilic loaded, every time I tried to zoom in on an object or house it would start me typing, so I looked like I was typing all the time and people would keep trying to figure out what was being said.
Ultimately, I’ll live with the wierdness of having an avatar without his hands moving, so you don’t know “where the voice is coming”. I want that damn thing just shut off; and it’s a simple routine in the debug list that should just be put back in for residents to access.
What I find more and more with concerts is that due to all these things Astrin is talking about, I try to find people who have shoutcast servers you can listen to outside the game, while doing other stuff around the house, or even flying to other parcels within SL. It kind of defeats the purpose of SL, except as a socializing launchpad to then sort yourself out to somebody’s other applications, but that’s what we have to live with, I guess.
Nacon
Mar 8th, 2007
Bye bye! …to whomever the hell you are.
1 down and many many many more to go.
Ickabod Humphreys
Mar 8th, 2007
For some people SL probably performs decently, or acceptable (within the 15 – 30 fps range). For others it just plain sucks ass (that would be me). However I do know that there are other factors at play when dealing with performance issues. It’s not always LL’s fault. Sometimes it’s the SIMS content to blame. And also it’s you’re computer as well. I know mine might seem to be up to what the Secondlife System Requirements demand. But the fact of the matter is, if i plan to walk around in a high traffic, highly detailed SIM with only 512MB’s of RAM, well it ain’t happening.
Much like the early days of the internet, webpages had to be designed sometimes with the user in mind. IE: you wouldn’t want to design everything in high detailed 3MB graphics and Flash Animation, and expect people still running on Dialup to show up happy back then.
And that’s sort of where SL is in right now. Not everyone has a high end Gaming PC Rig. Not everyone has that ultra sleek Orgasmically Fast High End Graphics Card. And not everyone has 4GIGs of RAM to play with.
Also note that people bitching about lag don’t realize that, all those annoying heavily scripted Blingy Bling Bling Attachments you have on might be part of the problem.
Tenshi Vielle
Mar 8th, 2007
Two thumbs way up. I heartily agree.
Rock Ramona
Mar 9th, 2007
The Lindens will fix nothing.And I enjoyed SL a lot more 2 years ago than i do now,I think everything Astrin said is correct.But this will all resolve itself,has to do with what people are getting for their hard earned dollar.I was in beta when SL came into this world,it was basically the same thing it is now,cept for a few updates that i as an everyday user hardly use anyways.I found it unplayable and went on to Star Wars Galaxies.Stayed there for 2 years having a ball and spending ton of money on their world.Then the developers began making changes and stopped listening to the people payin the bills.I sadly left with my guild of 200 people and went to World of Warcraft,which i quit after 2 weeks.There i was again,needing a place to be online but nothing in sight.In my searches i came across SecondLife..i thought,omg,that is still around????I went and made an avie,and have been there ever since.Weeknights there were 3500 people logged on,and weekends maybe 5000,it was still buggy,slowand outdated,but it gave me a place to chat and meet people until something better came along.Ive been everywhere,done almost everything..cept Gorean Roleplay..shudders..and i fell the same pain as Astrin.Ive owned 2k short of an entire sim and been screwed by neighbors,complained to LL to deaf ears,just like thousands of others.I was so happy to see that Astrin is considering leaving,perhaps someone will take notice.The only thing that keeps me here is the friends ive made,not the platform on which we all exist.I have 4friends working on a new platform and i know there aree several others doing this as well.Maybe someone will get lucky and develop a new place for all of us,so that we may all live and prosper in a new world where people will listen,till then,the lindens will survive a while longer on the new people who have become adicted and made new friends and loved ones….and maybe not,who knows…pax vobiscum
Prima Donna
Mar 9th, 2007
I dunno, usual SL Tech crap aside [fuck me, is that record ever broken and obvious] anyone that signs their name with
“Joined SL in April, 2004
First musician to perform live concerts in SL”
has their head up their arse to begin with.
Who cares when you joined, or if you were the first or last musician to play in sl? As if it confers some special authority on you to speak down from on high?
Gimme a break!
Lewis Nerd
Mar 9th, 2007
Prima, it means they know what they’re talking about.
Which seems more than a claim you can make.
Lewis
Prima Donna
Mar 9th, 2007
Lewis, crawl back under your rock.
You don’t know shit little man.
Nacon
Mar 9th, 2007
Sure… anyone can join back in 2004 and hardly do anything worth the shit.
I joined a year ago and I proved myself better than a lot of users whom is over 3 years old in SL.
What kind of bullshit is that?
It’s what you are… not how old or “elite by SL age” non-sense or who you are…. only what you are.
(meaning no one cares till you actually do something)
Lewis nerd
Mar 9th, 2007
I think I know plenty, Prima. I also use my real SL name.
Lewis
Prima Donna
Mar 9th, 2007
yeah..like your real anonymous sl name nerdboy?
Nacon gets it…what’s your problem?
I’ve heard better musicians with a better sound than astrin who came to sl much much later…not the first but certainly better. [no disrespect intended to Astrin, just a fact of musical life old son, for the weekend music hacker]. If they don’t like it because the platform sucks, they leave..not whine like a two year old and hold up their sl birthdate as proof of..?..I dunno…ego?. Gimme a fucking break!
Like sl’s going to fix their Edsel Metaverse tech because Astrin wants them to? LL’s platform is fucked 10 ways from sunday, they have enough trouble getting basic functionality to scale.
And what is that shit about “fragmentation of the live music community, as musicians form new, small groups on which they can announce their events with notices”?
AS IF the live music community was ever going to be built around one group, which just happened to be – tada! started by Astrin and his trusty sidekick moe! Good job on doing it, but that’s just not how the real world works, and to think that sl’s non performing platform caused people to start their own groups is delusional at best, egotistical at worst.
god, I can’t wait to see all the lamer musicians lined up at the starter gate of all the sl competitors that will be launching this year..just so they can say “First musician to play in *insert lame world here*.
That’s just so…so…vrml!
Magister Ludi
Mar 9th, 2007
Wow – so many twisted panties here, I feel like I fell into a wringer-washer at a bulldyke convention in Texas.
Great show the other day at Bliss, Astrin! Stick around and watch what happens in the next few months.
And why is everybody always so damn concerned about doors hitting me in the ass? What’s up with that? It wouldn’t hurt that much if it did, really. I’d be okay with that – I’ve found that as I get older I don’t really mind a little spankies now and then. Maybe people with tender asses, I guess. But thanks for the warnings anyway.
Yo Brewster
Mar 9th, 2007
Before complaining, think about this for a minute… how do you fix problems within an environment “quickly” when you’re growing THIS fast. Performance HAS stayed the same (still laggy of course) although more and more people are in SL. It’s not great BUT at least a start. Be patient – LL doesn’t like the lag any more then you guys do…
Morgan Northmead
Mar 9th, 2007
As a relative newcomer to SL (about 6 months), I am saddened that people such as Astrin are considering leaving. Since I am not a software engineer or any type of IT professional, I am in awe of those who can contribute such rich content to SL, and I feel deep grattitude to those who build, make art, play music, and lead groups in-world.
Admittedly, I am less game-savvy (and perhaps less critical)than many, since SL is my first venture into MMO games. To me, it seems to be a miracle – I can enter into a real-time “movie”, and meet people from all over the globe. It amazes me that LL can keep up at all, given the rapidly increasing “population”.
Even though I am still a “tourist”, I try to support the builders and creators through donations and purchases. I am sad if the platform can’t accomodate the work of one of our artists such as Astrin. SL’s creative people and artists are part of the magic that draws me here to be part of this economy. As a marketing professional, I know that an enterprise must strive to meet the needs of its clients/customers. I hope that Linden Labs will find a way to do so.
And, I hope, Astrin, that you will give it a little more time.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Mar 9th, 2007
>Bye bye! …to whomever the hell you are. 1 down and many many many more to go.–Nacon<
Nacon, the fact that you don’t know who Astrin Few is just adds to a long list of the evidence that you know a whole lot less than you think you know. Astrin is/has-been-for-a-long-time the recognized #1 music performaer on Second Life. But gasp… Nacon isn’t aware of that fact? Why no, he spends most of his waking hours trolling on blogs and forums. You being ignorant of who Astrin is comes as no big surprise to anyone.
As for the others who have made such trite statements as “don’t let the door hit you on the way out”… hope you enjoy Second Life as it turns into an artless, dull griefer board. People like Astrin were the ones who got in on the foundation of Second Life and helped make it more than a barren wasteland. Your lack of gratitude is nothing but an anti-tribute to your own attitude, not Astrin’s. If you had a lick o’ sense, you would realize Astrin posted this because he cares about Second Life and wants Linden Lab to wake up to the reality of the damage they’re doing to the board. Maybe you folks need to wake up as well. Second Life is crashing. Astrin posted this because like many of us, he’s been around long enough to see the pattern.
Nacon, it amazes me how you find it so appropriate to constantly insult people who have accomplished so much more in Second Life than you can ever hope to accomplish. I mean, what have you done for SL? What lasting mark have you made? What good have you personally done for other people? Yet you have the gall to stand around and slam others who have put their time and effort into that board? You are truly one sad, pathetic individual. And no, I’m not flaming you. I’m calling a troll a troll.
Astrin, for what it’s worth, I sympathise. I came to the same point last November… and I decided to chuck the system. Second Life simply was not worth my continued time, effort and investment any more. We’re not alone in making such decisions. To date, it appears that some 3.5 million other people have come to the same conclusion.
If it’s any consolation to you, once I left Second Life and started focusing more on RL, that RL took off like a shot and I’m doing great. I have no doubt the same would happen in your case. I found Second Life to be an interesting, addictive, creative, monumental waste of time and effort, with the future of anyone’s creations subject to the next major system crash, inventory loss or arbitrary Linden Lab whim-decision. Pretty lousy basket in which to put one’s eggs. My only regret is that I didn’t make the decision to leave a year and a half ago, when I first realized that Second Life was in serious trouble.
About people leaving SL, Nacon was right (gasp, there’s always a first time)… although he didn’t mean to be. He was being sarcastic, but for once, his sarcasm will prove prophetic:
“1 down and many many many more to go.” No truer words ever spoken. An upcoming, massive exodus from Second Life to other virtual platforms is almost inevitable.
Prima Donna
Mar 9th, 2007
“Astrin is/has-been-for-a-long-time the recognized #1 music performaer on Second Life.”
aha..ahaha…ahahhahhahahahahahhahahahaa
Now you really do crack me up. Why? Because he started a group? Because you say so? GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK. SL Live music is like busking, and lemme me tell ya elf boy, there’s a shitload of excellent musicians on the virtual pavement who leave astrin sitting in the dust – despite all the sl tech issues. And they don’t need to make dumb claims about virtual birthdates or pole positions…they seem to be getting out and doing it just fine.
Perhaps this is partly the reason for Astrin’s whiney biatch letter…slowly slipping down the charts of the metaverse hit parade and sliding back into pool of the musical masses is not the virtual future he had planned out in his head?
Big deal…welcome to the real world sunshine!
I suspect this has more to do with
Whack-a-Nacon
Mar 10th, 2007
So Nacon is posting as “Prima Donna” now? What a dweeb.
If the guy had three functioning brain cells, he’d be four times as intelligent as he is now.
Dude, do you have any clue how completely worthless your posts are? Come back when you have a real opinion and can state it at something above third-grade mentality.
prima donna
Mar 11th, 2007
No he’s not you dipshit elf impersonator…it’s someone completely different.
Do you have any idea how completely inane your posts are?
Someone who took their bat and ball back to rl, and now sits on the sidelines sniping at them? Dude, if you were that invested back in RL there is no way you would waste precious time reading forum posts about a “dead” virtual world.
WTF am I doing? I’m arguing with someone who used to impersonate an elf, and is now having withdrawl symptons?
and fwiw, you also know shit about chinese business practices…
Zonax Delorean
Mar 11th, 2007
I can only agree 100% with Astrin.
Everything he says is totally true!
The grid was MUCH more stable about 2 years ago. There weren’t much asset, teleport issues. Search worked, search showed who’s online and who’s not, etc.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Mar 11th, 2007
Nacon/Prima Donna/Linden Lapdog… what’s really, really hilarious in your mindless rantings is that you seem to be of the impression that calling me an “elf” is somehow going to insult me.
aaHAAAHAAAhhahaaaahaaaHAAAAAHHAAhaaaaaa
Dude, my “pretending to be an elf” accomplished more on just SL than you will ever hope to accompish other than by sheer accident. I don’t recall lately seeing any Metaverse Messenger articles about the mighty Nacon. Nor any SL awards you’ve won. Nor RL articles mentioning your vast accomplishments on SL. Insult other posters here all you like monkey boy, they out-perform you any day of the week without even breaking a sweat. Me, I’m on to bigger, better, more lasting things, and loving it. As far as my posting on these blogs being evidence I don’t have a RL… LOL, talk about putting your #20 clown-shoe in your own mouth. LOL
Nacon comes raging into the ring, flailing wildly. He misses completely, accidently busting himself in the mouth. The crowd roars in appreciation!
Truth is Nacon, some people actually know how to manage their time. Just because I stopped supporting Second Life doesn’t mean I’m not interested in its ultimate outcome. I think it will be a fascinating exercise and example in how not to run a company. Time will tell.
Now, Nacon, back to your homework or no Gameboy for you tonight.
As Bugs would say, “What a maroon.”
elf less
Mar 11th, 2007
Dude, seriously you need to get some elf HELP!
“Dr. Philler knows there’s more to finding your inner elf and achieving elvish authentication than lacing up your pointy shoes, slipping on your pointy hat and slapping on your sporty tunic. This simple program allows you to discover your five pivotal people, four fast friends, three turning points, two critical choices and a partridge in your pear tree.”
As to what I’ve done in sl…well, let’s just say I’ve done more than you in sl and I still am doing it – despite all the pr BS LL puts out and the shitty, pathetic excuse for a so-called business infrastructure with non-existent support that is called sl.
But this story is not about me, or what I have done…it’s about whiney 2-year Astrin/Sammy stomping his foot on the little league pitch cos his bat done got all broke.
The Meshverse Journal
Mar 12th, 2007
Reloaded Again and Again(is anyone counting?)
Although Julian Lombardis Metaverse Scalability(be sure to follow the links he provides) probably stings a bit for hard core SL folk, most wont give up on it anytime soon(nearly half a million logged in last week). As business opportunit…
Whack-a-Nacon
Mar 12th, 2007
“let’s just say I’ve done more than you in sl and I still am doing it.”
What, like using fake names, creating multiple avs, testing out camping chairs? LOL
Nacon, you are so full of yourself. You’ve done zip, money boy, just like you’ve done in real life. Useless appendage of the human race.
Eddie Beckenbauer
Mar 12th, 2007
I sure wish grandpa were here. He’d fix everything, and then he’d take us out for icecream. I love icecream! I love grandpa!
Insightfully submitted,
Eddie
Eddie Beckenbauer
Mar 12th, 2007
I sure wish grandpa were here. He’d fix everything, and then he’d take us out for icecream. I love icecream! I love grandpa!
Insightfully submitted,
Eddie
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Mar 12th, 2007
Yeah Eddie, grandpas can fix a lot of things. Comes from years of experience, I’m guessing.
Having had my fill of troll-beheading for a while… one would think that Linden Lab would start realizing they are losing their most dedicated and creative people… people like Astrin Few. They seem to take the cold-core corporate view of “We can always replace ‘em”… and they’re probably right. There will be other performers ready to jump in and fill the spot. But they won’t be Astrin. They won’t be Starax. They might offer an imitation of what has gone before… but Linden Lab is losing its history, it’s “geneology” so to speak. Every time someone leaves Second Life, they tell their friends why they left, and Linden Lab’s reputation takes another hit. And it amazes me that they seem totally oblivious to the fact that they fail to retain some 95% of the people who check out their system.
When a company offers a free product and 95% of the people who try it say, “No thanks”… that company is in trouble. I’m frankly amazed at the people that have seen fit to invest in the Second Life system. It’s the dot.com era all over again– people with more dollars than sense. I’m sure if they’d asked their accountants and business consultants to analyze and evaluate the Second Life platform prior to investing, they’d have avoided what’s about to happen to the Second Life system.
Starax, Astrin, Elf Clan… one wonders what/who will be next. As of today, the stats indicate that out of a reported “residency” of 4,581,105… Linden Lab has lost some 4.1 million potential customers (that’s the number who have not logged on in the last 7 days). That percentage has held consistent for months now. Most analysts are aware of this. The matter has been discussed in such prominent sites as PC Magazine. Yet of course, people like Astrin leaving doesn’t mean anything, does it? Second Life can get along without them, can’t it?
We’ll see.
prima donna
Mar 13th, 2007
Beheading trolls? snort.
lol…as far as I know Starax is back in sl already dimwit..under another identity.
Elf clan..ja, big loss there!
ooh, ja…look at me, dahlink, I am an elf bahabbby! I haf pointy ears and a leetle red jacketz unt bootz baahaby. yes, unt a schtick mit unt glowing ting on de end! ja! I am an uber powerful elf! [um, reduced to text now, damn LL!]
Astrin, last I saw he’s still playing and booking gigs which means he does not even have the balls to follow through with his “threat”.
And yes, Sl will get along just fine if he does. There are plenty more where he came from…even if they are reduced to saying “1000th musician to play in sl” on their sig.
Sure – SL IS a pile of shit, people are idiots for investing in it and spending $300/month on it. Media are tools for buying into it.
On the other hand, if you know its limitations and are honest about what it can do and don’t push it into spaces it can’t handle…well, strangely enough you can do things with it that still don’t exist anywhere else AS YET. Kaneva is atrocious, even for a beta. Croquet is a nice idea, but is for geeks and academics.
I’m staying in and doing just fine – till the next cab comes along that does it better. Certainly better than being some sad loser sniping from the sidelines, elfboy.
[and I'm not nacon, have no alts, don't camp, and that's all you need to know elfboy]
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Mar 13th, 2007
Yeah right Prima. Not Nacon. Uh huh. We’ve heard that one before, monkey boy. LOL
Several of the points you make are pretty valid. Unfortunately, you don’t respect anyone else in the process… which in my book drops you in the “worthless troll” class. You talk about others sniping, but the only one I really see sniping is you, and you have a habit of using multiple names to try to support your own position. Sad person, you are.
prima donna
Mar 13th, 2007
>>You talk about others sniping, but the only one I really see sniping is you..Unfortunately, you don’t respect anyone else in the process
Well, you are not as bad as that raving glory seeking blingtard Prokofy [with a ratio of intelligent to looney posts of about 1:10] but forwarding portents of doom messages about Lidnen Labs forthcoming demise under the guise of a *metaverse refugee temporarily housed in web 2.0 land reduced to text role playing like adventure on a pdp10* elf lord does make you look a little looney old son.
But, serious hat on, I really do feel your pain over being suckered by Lidnen Labs bait & switch by buying into the sales pitch and setting up elfland early on in the brave new world of SL, only to be sucker punched when they tried to scale and the system died.
I don’t know how much us$ you dropped in the process [I'm guessing a bit], but the 6-7 hours a day for *how many years* and then see it woosh down the shitter must burn like hell.
No wonder you are pissed, and can’t wait to get some small measure of revenge by sniping at the Lidnens and hoping they will go belly up. But, really, you should grow up. Sniping from the sidelines after you left is silly, as is Astrins “I’m taking my bat and ball and leaving coz I’m a Star, man, I have TeH power to move markers” routine.
Try reading “Crossing the Chasm” or similar books on the TALC and you may understand what is going on here a little better, in addition to making more informed choices next time regarding such a serious investment in time and money in a platform that was bound to scale at some point, and ultimately bound to fail to scale at some point. Did the .bomb fiasco teach you nothing? [apart from you have to be a complete ruthless lying cunt with insider connections to be a winner in the IPO game, in addition to the media generally being a spineless bunch of blathering idiots at the beck and call of corporate/political interests - see Dan Rather SXSW interview]
Bitch of a lesson, but that’s life sunshine.
Strangely enough, it appears people are still buying multiple sims by the bucketload. Their risk threshold is very high is all I can say – I have serious doubts over Lidnen’s ability to scale, thought a little different from the Julian Lombardi’s oh so obvious *Sl won’t scale and by the way we are releasing a new croquet beta for geeks and academics manyana* post.
>>Yeah right Prima. Not Nacon. Uh huh.
Wanna hear it again? I’m much more creative in my use of anonymous internet fuctard names than mere a Nacon, believe me. [er, no offense Nacon]
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Mar 13th, 2007
OK I somewhat buy that your aren’t Nacon… ’cause you’re able to put two thoughts together in logical order. I’d still guess you’re not using your “regular” identity, but what the hey.
Yeah, you’re right. It’s a pain investing in anything and having it bomb out. All totalled, Elf Clan invested some $3,500 US to putting our sims together, just to have them lost to Linden Lab’s corporate policies and TOS (Terms of Sloppiness). However, unlike others who are still getting suckered in by Linden Lab… Elf Clan had the sense to cut our losses and close shop.
But as far as your observation that I’m “sniping from the sides” and that I should “grow up”… give me a break Prima– and wise up. I’m by no means “sniping” Linden Lab. In case the point missed you, Second Life Herald isn’t exactly a pro-Linden Lab zine. This is a place where people evaluate, analyze, and report on Second Life– both good and bad– both factual and trollish. It’s pretty much an open zine… and not exactly Second Life complimentary.
Now, if I say something that is wrong, or unfactual, you’re welcome to point it out. But otherwise, slamming me (or anyone else) is just trolling, pure and simple. I (and everyone else) has just as much right to voice our opinions as you do– and although this may come as a shocker– your personal opinion is not the word-o-God. No matter how much you feel you are right, you may not be, and no matter how much you think you know– you don’t know everything (as a prime example, your impression of why Elf Clan closed down. BUZZZ! Wrong).
So before you judge others, you might realize this is an open-opinion zine. I’ll respect your opinion as long as you respect mine. When you turn observations about Second Life into personal attacks on the posters here, you cross the line from commentator to trollboy. So you decide how you want to come across. You can either discuss with the adults, old son, or take other roles. Your choice.
Truly, I have to always wonder about trolls. Are they so insecure in their position that they feel they have to personally attack to opposition to draw attention away what they’re actually saying? LOL.
What you say Prima, may have merit. But if you have to attack others to make the point, makes the point look lame, y’know?
Now, to discuss a coupla points you made…
>forwarding portents of doom messages about Lidnen Labs forthcoming demise under the guise of a *metaverse refugee housed in Web 2.0 land”< LOL. I've done nothing of the kind. What I've done is made analytical observations about the direction Linden Lab is heading. If you'd known me over the last coupla years you'd know I've done so several times... and each time caught Linden Lab with their pants down. I blew the lid off of a couple of major LL snafus. I've stood toe to toe with Lee Linden a coupla times and came out on top. I don't just say things off the top of my head; I base conclusions on observable evidence and statistics. I'm by no means sniping from the sidelines... unless of course, you consider SL Herald "sidelines". I thought this was pretty much mainstream SL literature here. Goofy at times, yeah, but still widely recognized. At least I have the basic honor to use my real SL name. Sniping? Hardly. I'm right here where you can see me, guy, full view.
I'm not the only one making such observations either. But what you're failing to see is WHY. I'm not sitting here just hoping and waiting for Linden Lab to collapse. I'm warning others before they make bonehead investments in the company. I woulda figured that was obvious.
>Strangely enough, it appears people are still buying multiple sims by the bucketload. Their risk threshold is very high is all I can say – I have serious doubts over Lidnen’s ability to scale,< Which is a funny statement, considering that you seem to have pretty much the same opinion of Linden Lab as I do. One sentence you chide me for "sniping" Linden Lab... then the next sentence you do the same thing. LOL. So lighten up. If LL pulls some rabbit out of the hat and pulls their butts out of the fire, more power to 'em. Won't reduce the number of people who hate their guts, though. And it won't stop the inevitable competition, who WILL do the job far better than Linden Lab. After all, LL has shown them all the mistakes to avoid. LOL
>But, serious hat on, I really do feel your pain over being suckered by Lidnen Labs bait & switch < I appreciate that. So don’t derail the rant that LL so seriously deserves. LOL You know they’ve got it coming… and more. I figure if me and others like me can make others think twice before investing hard $ in Second Life… we’ll save them the grief the old-timers have experienced when Linden Lab gave in to delusions of grandeur.
A thought or two Prima, about Astrin. You’re apparently of the opinion that Second Life won’t be hurt if he leaves. That Elf Clan shutting down had no effect on the board. That Starx leaving didn’t damage the art community. That’s where I have to disagree. That’s a cold, callous, corporate outlook that sees only numbers and ignores the very real factor of people. Many armies have been overthrown because they thought they were so powerful the people could do nothing. You tell me to read and take a lesson– perhaps you might want to study up on the French Revolution and see how well the nobility did once the peasants got fed up. Or maybe a little history of England, and note what happened when a small band of insignificant rebels got angry enough to dump some tea overboard.
Agreed, if Astrin leaves, it won’t be earth-shaking… initially. But Astrin was the first, and the most popular. Elvis died… but his effect on the music industry still exists. The Beatles broke up, but their influence is still around. I was a performer on Second Life as well and was one of those who brought RL profession into the grid. But I always acknowledged Astrin as the “king”… because he deserved it. He was the first, and I dare say the most prolific. I don’t think any other performer on SL has performed as many times or in as many venues as Astrin.
There are other Elf groups on Second Life. They aren’t Elf Clan. There are other performers on Second Life. Some of them may be even more talented than Astrin or myself. But they’re not Astrin. They didn’t start the performing concept on Second Life. They have Astrin to thank that the concept exists.
Now if that means nothing to you… nothing I can do about that. Lack of gratitude is the way of the world today. But every time Second Life loses a major talent… they face three realities: 1) that’s a negative score on the scoreboard– and people DO remember negative scores. 2) There’s always payback and 3) That talent is going to go somewhere else– most likely to the competition. If Atrin goes to a competitive board, he will likely take a bunch of people with him. If I set up Elf Clan somewhere else… you can bet it would catch some attention (for the record: not going to. RL is far more profitable and beneficial and fun than SL ever dreamed of being. I learned that lesson… have no intention to get hypnotized by VR again. LOL).
When Starax left SL, his artwork sold at unheard-of prices. Since Michaelangelo died, there have been other artists. No one has created a David or the Sistene Chapel, have they? Prima, people are unique. Artists are unique. And having the opinion that someone “can be replaced” is a bonafide corporate mentality that has turned corporate America into an uncaring, greedy monster. Profitable perhaps, but soulless. And dude, profit is not everything, nor even the main thing. Micro$oft is highly profitable… but the company has more avowed enemies than any computer company I’ve ever seen, and people curse the day Bill Gates was born. That’s not a legacy I’d like to leave behind. I’d rather be an Apple or Linux and have people love me than a Micro$oft and have people hate me. I mean, how many steaks can you eat in one sitting, anyway? After a certain level, money and power ceases to mean anything. Then it’s just you and the guy in the mirror… and what other people think of ya.
You can claim all you want about Astrin’s message having no effect on Second Life. But let me ask you something: when Second Life crumbles (as it eventually will) and their competition takes over, and Astrin is performing on another board… who’s going to have the last laugh?
Every time Linden Lab ticks off a customer, they lose a dozen customers. You tick off someone as popular as Astrin, you tick off hundreds of customers. Each of those customers has friends.
Get the point? Hope so, because it appears Linden Lab doesn’t.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Mar 13th, 2007
Oh Prima, one more thing. The main reason I considered you to be Nacon (and still hold that as a possibility) is because you both seem to think it’s so funny to attack “Elven” things (like that’s supposed to be some kind of insult. My, my, how can I ever stand the strain of some troll badmouthing Elves. First time that’s ever happened. LOL).
Anyhow, since you apparently don’t respect me or what Elf Clan accomplished on Second Life, I’ll ask you the same questions I asked Nacon:
What awards have you won on Second Life?
Where are your accomplishments? Mind pointing them out?
How many people have you benefited? What’s the largest group you ever formed?
Where are the articles about you in Metaverse Messenger?
How many times have you been featured in the SL Herald?
How many charity organizations have you assisted on Second Life?
How many events have you hosted?
And last but not least… would anyone be saddened if YOU left Second Life? Would they even notice?
In other words “Prima”… where is your mark? You seem to be all-too-ready to belittle others. Let’s hear your wondrous accomplishments. XD
Hey, not trying to be trite here, but you kinda asked for it. I wonder if you and Nacon find it necessary to insult others to make yourselves look bigger. No? Then stop insulting others. What do you think you accomplish?
You may disrespect the theme and the accomplishments of me and Elf Clan. But in your case… there’s nothing there for me to disrespect. In short… where’s the beef? LOL
Make fun of Elven all you wish Nacon-wannabe (LOL, sorry, couldn’t resist) but at least we made a mark. Not only in Second Life, but throughout the Internet. Don’t believe me? Google Wayfinder Wishbringer and see what you come up with. Now… try your own. Oops… zero hits?
Not blowing my own horn. Un-blowing yours. Make fun of Elves all you like, but at least we accomplished something more than attacking other people’s hobbies on the net.
And for the record, psst… I’m not really an Elf. I know that may come as a shock to you… but y’know… Second Life is like… a FANTASY world… gasp! I’m back to RL and loving it– and doing even better than I did on SL. Hope your RL goes as well.
But first of course, you’ll have to get your head out of the VR fantasy clouds. I had the sense to take the red pill and leave, SL boy. XD
prima donna
Mar 13th, 2007
“Seek to understand what draws you to the garden. You may discover greater rewards than the blue ribbons awarded for the biggest pumpkin or the best preserves. You may find the garden becomes a teacher and crop “failures” become lessons learned. However big or small your garden is, if you allow nature to touch your spirit, gardening will bring returns of peace, satisfaction, and well-being for as long as you continue to wander the garden path.”
Norman H. Hansen
Source: The Worth of Gardening
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Mar 13th, 2007
Nice quote. Translated: zip.
The point here is, enjoying the nature of your garden, the peace, satisfaction and well-being of traveling your garden path, doesn’t mean standing there and insulting the accomplishments of fellow gardeners.
prima donna
Mar 14th, 2007
*sigh*
ok, all well and good, you accomplished building a community on an emerging technology platform – albiet expensively and finally making the smart decision that enough was enough.
If you don’t understand the quote’s intent..not much else I can say.
Try reading this for some illumination:
http://www.3pointd.com/20070313/sxsw-xcript-joi-ito-and-justin-hall/#more-1347
Good luck on your next excellent adventure.
Erik Zorger
Mar 14th, 2007
I have been in SL about 1 1/2 years. Not much has changed except SL grew fast, some more first land sims, a new continent and a huge number of personal islands. Most days SL give me no trouble at all and I got a decent “more than a year old” rig on a 5Mb connection. We should hope not to lose those that have given SL and in doing so helped it to grow. We should if we care start sending bug reports if we know how and what to send along to LL. I for one will continue to add to SL, build my business and learn how to be better at it. I will learn to cope with LL changes.
Lets cut it, each of us is individual, and therfor has our own individual way of doing things. Not one is more right or better than the other… just the individuals way of doing it.
Erik Zorger
Mar 14th, 2007
I have been in SL about 1 1/2 years. Not much has changed except SL grew fast, some more first land sims, a new continent and a huge number of personal islands. Most days SL give me no trouble at all and I got a decent “more than a year old” rig on a 5Mb connection. We should hope not to lose those that have given SL and in doing so helped it to grow. We should if we care start sending bug reports if we know how and what to send along to LL. I for one will continue to add to SL, build my business and learn how to be better at it. I will learn to cope with LL changes.
Lets cut it, each of us is individual, and therfor has our own individual way of doing things. Not one is more right or better than the other… just the individuals way of doing it.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Mar 14th, 2007
I understood the quote’s intent Prima. Did you?
One doesn’t always have to “accomplish” something to make an activity worthwhile. Sometimes the experience itself is the goal… or there doesn’t even have to be a goal, just enjoyment.
But if you’re going to proclaim peace and serenity and enjoying the path for the path– hard to do while you’re mat-slamming other people who are trying to do the same thing. If you’re going to find enjoyment in your path, it follows you should allow others to do the same.
Now, it might be claimed that I’m mat-slamming Linden Lab. Interestingly enough, there’s a lot of that going on lately,from a lot of people. See, trick is… LL isn’t the “gardeners”. They’re the landlords who remt the land at excessive prices– and then fail to provide the water necessary to irrigate the gardens. Result: angry gardeners. Which is what Astrin’s post above is all about.
Many people may consider Astrin’s post to be a rant. I consider it just the opposite. It’s yet another plea from someone who loves Second Life and wishes Linden Lab would wise up. And like the corp-boys always suggest: if LL doesn’t straighten up the mess– Astrin has given notice he’s leaving. Seems like a pretty logical decision to me… and a pretty fair notice.
LL should either provide the services they promise and that people pay through the nose for… or they can expect their customers to pack up and go elsewhere. I made that decision. Some 4.1 million other people have made that decision. Astrin is thinking about making that decision. How many more will LL have to lose before it dawns on them that their platform is a mess and their business plan is flaky?
Eddie Beckenbauer
Oct 9th, 2007
Alas! I posted twice so many months ago. Oh the shame! The humiliation! If only I could turn back time, I’d fix my ubiquitous error that haunts me still today…
Life I fear, is full of regrets! Regrets and old folk on Segways… damn them all I say! Straight to hell!
Keaton Carling
Nov 7th, 2007
hey, im a RL singer/songwriter who just made my way into SL. I dont really know what everyone else is talking about….SL is working great for my purposes. I play gigs, get new fans who check out my RL sites and what not, and then I have even had RL fans come onto SL to hear me perform live. So like I said, for my purposes SL is a great tool for marketing and promotion for my RL gig
jer
Dec 19th, 2007
Being a musician in SL takes a lot more then how long you’ve played, or if you were first or second or whatever, it takes an audience who LOVES to hear you…and that takes time.
For those that simply enjoy doing their real life passions in second life, they deserve the best SL can give them. And for those doing it as a career as I’ve seen others write, it’s a great “platform” for that…but no matter where you go “Grid Happens!” get used to it…it has no special types, it happens to anyone, of course if you are a musician, keep your computer Up to date with a good graphics card so you can converse with your audience and have a guitar on or a keyboard or what have ya. It’s not just the audience that wants to hear a good show, they want to be a Part of a good show, all musicians or anyone using SL for purposes of the platform, to network, the better you maintain your gear, the better it is for everyone listening and/or performing.
Kinda hard to ignore that!
If you have a ‘shit computer’…upgrade, thus, upgrading your audience.