LINDEN CRACKS DOWN ON THIRD-PARTY BLOG!….THEN APOLOGIZES.
by prokofy on 14/05/07 at 9:38 pm
Prokofy Neva, Dept. of Community Affairs
In an unprecedented and appalling action this evening sure to have major repercussions, Meta Linden, a new Linden born May 12, 2007, has informed a resident of Second Life that the chatlogs from Second Life she has posted on her own blog, a third-party site unrelated to Second Life, are in violation of the Terms of Service and must be removed, or the resident can face disciplinary action within SL. Update 5/15: Meta then subsequently retracted her statements and apologized, explaining that she was “new” and unfamiliar with guidelines for enforcing policy.
The chatlogs on a blogspot.com SL diary involve the investigations of resident Honey Wendt into activity in Yongchong she claims involves ageplay, or simulation of sex with children, although the typists behind the avatars are said to be adults.
The warning against Honey Wendy and the instruction to remove the material from the third-party site did not come through the official Abuse Report system, but in a series of IMs Meta Linden initiated with Honey Wendt directly.
Meta Linden reported at an office hour two weeks ago that prior to being hired to work for Linden Lab, she was a resident of SL who owned a private island and a business. She declined to give reporters her SL avatar name nor the name of the business.
Robin Linden and other Lindens have made it very clear in past round tables and upon direct questioning that material that is on third-party sites is outside the jursidiction of Linden Lab. Unlike other companies that provide online multiplayer games and worlds, LL has never attempted to overreach its bounds and tell residents what to do outside of their ambit.
The crackdown against a site outing ageplay activity which LL itself has indicated it will no longer tolerate seems odd, unless it is seen in a broader context of LL moving across a variety of fronts in a variety of manners to rein in a mushrooming, anarchic population to satisfy claims beginning to be made by real-life law-enforcement and media that real-life criminal offenses may be committed in this virtual world.
Crusaders against ageplay in Second Life who have outed the identities, locations, groups, and conversations of people whom they say are guilty of child pornography have long incurred the wrath of the liberal Second Life crowd, who see it as an unwarranted invasion of privacy.
But the Community Standards have traditionally been interpreted as only applying to expression *within* Second Life:
Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums.
Meta Linden has considerably upped the ante by quoting *another* portion of the TOS:
take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit Content as determined by Linden Lab at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, causes tort, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;
She has construed this TOS language to mean that transmitting chatlogs that are believed by LL at its sole discretion to be “libelous” or “invasive of another’s privacy” *outside of* Second Life to a third-party site is now actionable.
It’s not at all clear whether Meta Linden is free-lancing here, possibly against someone she acquired a beef against while a resident, and now wishes to use her Linden powers on, or whether she is operating with a new as-yet unknown policy for third-party blogs.
We were still awaiting a response to an inquiry from Robin Linden and other Lindens at press time.
Last year, protesters hounded another ageplay house out of Yongchong by organizing a mass protest on a parcel next door when their abuse-reports to LL were not acted upon. Guy Linden, who came to the scene, had no comment and took no action. The residents in question removed the RL child porn from the walls of their home, and left up only SL avatar child porn, then later sold their land and moved away.
UPDATE 12:30 am SL: Meta Linden has now come forward and apologized on Honey Wendt’s blog in the latest development, as has come out in the comments.
However, the apology is as troublesome as Meta’s original intervention to pressure Honey to remove content, because Meta Lindens claims that in fact the TOS do *not* protect third-party blogs from overreach by Linden Lab.
In her post to Honey Wendt’s blog, Meta writes:
I checked with more other Lindens (I am new btw) and discovered that while our TOS doesn’t state that it only covers SL Servers, and the intention is to protect the privacy of all resident conversations, that we do not enforce outside of our servers, forums, and blogs, as a matter of policy. I was incorrect. I apologize.
In fact, the CS and TOS *do* state “in Second Life” and imply that they only cover SL servers. We are not aware of any official senior Linden interpretation that says “our TOS doesn’t state that it only covers SL Servers”. That’s Meta Linden’s — and possibly some other Lindens’ — spin on it.
In comments below, Meta writes further:
Yes, I did extend my individual interpretation of our TOS as it is written past our guidelines for enforcement. I did so nicely at least, and certainly discussed it with other Lindens re:our policies.
No author of a blog could *ever* find a Linden challenge to remove content from their blog as something that is “nice.”
Finally, in a follow-up conversation in-world, Meta contacted me on her resident alt and told me that she did not apologize because Honey and I publicized her attempt to put pressure on this blog, but apologized simply because she became aware of the policy. The time stamps and the circumstances of course tell another story, however. It’s clear that she hoped to accomplish on her Linden account what she was unable to accomplish on a resident alt merely filing an AR.
Even before being contacted, I had received various tips from the crowd-wisdom surfers out there putting together the links between Meta’s Linden avatar and her previous resident avatar.
Meta challenged me inworld once she figured that I had the connection, implying that if I made this connection, I would be hypocritical given my privacy concerns. I find that untenable, as Lindens should not be able to hide behind any concept of privacy when in fact they have a conflict of interests involved with their resident personas and are evidently using their Linden accounts to settle scores.
That’s wrong.
When Lindens violate norms of decency like that I don’t think they should be able to be shielded by “privacy.”
I will merely do Meta Linden the courtesy never ensured for me by Linden Lab, and let others make the connection if they wish. I can only reiterate: Lindens must not use their Linden accounts to settle scores. It undermines the professionalism and effectiveness of the Linden team, and undermines their credibility significantly.
Prokofy Neva
May 15th, 2007
Interestingly, at her office hour today, Robin Linden said that there is no new policy about third-party blogs, merely a “new Linden,” who had not yet read the old policy apparently. Meaning, no, there is no policy that enables LL overreach and disciplinary action for what is contained on third-party sites. I’m waiting until the official transcript is posted but it was stated clearly.
Robin also said that this Linden violated a policy about Lindens posting on third-party sites. But…what is that policy? No posting at all? Come to think of it, I haven’t seen any Lindens posting anywhere for the longest time, not even Torley.
Sys
May 15th, 2007
when scapegoated, when made an ‘example’ of for an inflammatory situation you yourself did not really cause…the only defense is to say sorry and be still.
No one will listen to you anyway.
This problem was caused by overly lenient verification systems. And now as a backlash, absurd steps are being taken to right what we as the inhabitants of SL, did not at all cause.
But as this complete uproar (everyone loves a hot story right) continues to fret and strut…I most certainly want to say this:
I think making one person the head of a very messy and unnecessary debate is infantile. But hey…this is what the world loves, a scapegoat. Hide all of your own faults behind the simple mistake of another person.
Sadly..human nature, even in Virtuality.
So keep hiding your own ‘sins’ behind an honest error. If you feel better sleeping at night doing so, I pity you.
mootykips
May 15th, 2007
Ordinal: I dunno. Probably go over to N3X15′s house and have a party or something.
Seriously, if you guys kicked all the furries and shit out you might have a chance at something here. You want a legitimate social networking/interaction platform, outlaw not only the loli but the goreans, the furries, and the rest of them (age verification is actually a step forward here), make your game client not run like shit, and everyone will take you seriously.
This whole ageplay debate is meaningless to anyone outside SL and the media, especially the techies/bloggers, because they realize this sort of shit was all SL was ever good for anyway. Not to drag this off topic but when we did the Edwards raid most tech blogs were actually cheering us on. We got comments like “..the thing is..griefing is pretty much the only way to make Second Life fun if you aren’t a furry or a pedophile or something” and “As an adult heterosexual who has no interest in making love to an anthropomorphical fox typing “YIFF! YIFF!” into the chat window in capital letter synchronicity with every virtual thrust, I don’t play Second Life”, and “wow. How lame. Second Life is supposed to be a nice world away from the constrains of ‘real life’ and here are some idiots bringing in politics and asking for felony charges under the fairly useless “Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.” Second Life is an overhyped failure. Log off and go outside, folks.”
The only ones taking SL seriously as it was intended (I hope it was intended as an engine for social interaction) is the corporations moving in thinking they’ll make HUEG XBOX $$$ by marketing in it. Dump the deviants and fix the game and maybe others will too.
Nacon
May 15th, 2007
Prok said “No, it’s not “their game”. I pay for the server space. A reasonable expectation of decency and conformity with some kind of code of conduct is fine for something of this nature.”
OOHHHHH so now youre saying you ARE supporting ageplay by giving them the server?
of course, you meant by your own stupid rental place… which btw, has nothing to do with ageplay to begin with. Should make one wonder why you’re making it such a big deal with you. …of course, you’re just living in a fantasy world where you think you’re a “Hero” by pointing everything out.
Keep ranting, Prok. And don’t forget your pills too.
Shadow Freund
May 15th, 2007
TBH, the whole issue of LL censoring search objects and outlawing “dolls” “lolita” or any number of other search terms that could be used to define ageplay or any number of other so-called aberrant sexual deviances is an issue that I find offensive. While I have major issues against age play (for that matter even basic cyber) I do not presume to judge the actions of two consenting adults doing age play, not due to being pedophiles, but perhaps acting out some sexual issues that occured to them when they were children and using RP as an effective form of therapy – but who cares about them…obviously not the majority of the people that post here..
Regarding the publishing on a blog of a chat log between people promoting age-play is just nothing but dogmatic jingoism where someone never actually determines the REAL age of the person behind the computer…as well, forces U.S. Morality on non-u.s people.
While I find the idea of entrapment, compromising identies, and forcing your judgements on others to be reprehensible. Personally I find the idea that someone chooses to spend their time outing age-players as particularly pathetic, this is a creature of SL’s own creation.
SL chose to stop age-verification to give them a modicum of defense in these arguements. However, a number of the previous posts argue quite convincingly that age is not determiner of maturity and that if something offends-it must be burned. As well, people who get all upset that a linden may or may not have used their position to avenge a past wrong (and I see no evidence of this other then that from a fanatic, and I learned long ago to discount fanatics.) Using a blog, or the power of a blog to do the same is somehow more equable?
I read a conversation where someone at LL said some things regarding interpretation of terms of service…did the person get banned in-world? No, should she/he/it have – imho yes. I think that publicity of this licenscious activity is negative publicity to LL and in effect suggest that LL promotes this. This is, of course false, but I don’t think it would take too good of a lawyer to prove this.
And this active antagonism of Lindens is offensive to me as the Lindenism worship is. They are people selling a product, which is what everyone with a job does. Buy it or not – your choice.
Prokofy Neva
May 15th, 2007
>TBH, the whole issue of LL censoring search objects and outlawing “dolls” “lolita” or any number of other search terms that could be used to define ageplay or any number of other so-called aberrant sexual deviances is an issue that I find offensive.
So? First you were ranting at me for criticizing a company that you says is merely selling a product and I should “just not buy it,” now YOU yourself are guilty of ascribing to them something more than that by implying they are “censoring the world”.
They aren’t “censoring the whole world”. They are censoring their product. If you don’t like a censored product, um, don’t buy it? See, two can play at that silly game.
From Robin’s office hour, we can see a pretty stark proposition: that they actually feel that they had to face the loss of SL itself, the shutting down of all of SL over this, or the loss of all German residents, let’s say, if SL itself was banned in a country, or some good-faith attempt to comply in general terms with that country’s law. The latter seemed the reasonable option to them.
They decided that if Lolita stuff is offensive and even illegal, then they’ll risk upsetting the few like yourself who are offended at them getting offended or pragmatically, taking action to save their service, and purging the term.
I do have to laugh at the Goth Lolita people somehow crying “culture” here. Lolita is the title of a book by a decadent Russian emigre in France about a middle-aged man in America lusting after a 12-year-old neighbour girl. Where’s the Asia lol? Asia has borrowed certain Western memes like the round-eyed doll child in ways they ought to find more troubling than they do, as they seem more about aping other cultures than about affirming their own. But…what is culture in a multinational mash-up place like SL anyway?
>While I have major issues against age play (for that matter even basic cyber) I do not presume to judge the actions of two consenting adults doing age play, not due to being pedophiles, but perhaps acting out some sexual issues that occured to them when they were children and using RP as an effective form of therapy – but who cares about them…obviously not the majority of the people that post here..
We’ve dispensed with this faux therapy stuff. Again, viz Ace Albion: “What’s in it for Daddy?”
>Regarding the publishing on a blog of a chat log between people promoting age-play is just nothing but dogmatic jingoism where someone never actually determines the REAL age of the person behind the computer…as well, forces U.S. Morality on non-u.s people.
Hardly. Whatever the motivation of this anonymous avatar Honey Wendt, if she goes in to report on something that the company said it had made illegal and which she had abuse-reported, and she finds that in fact some players can still go around advertising services as 13-year-old child escorts, then there’s a story. It’s not jingoism, merely a story to report on for a blog. And um…COUGH…it’s not the American police who came bursting in on Robin Linden with RL pictures of child porn, eh? It’s the German *media*, and not even police, and covering the German police who are presumably finding evidence of same? Not sure why we Americans have to take a stick in the eye over what GERMANS have unleashed in Second Life. Hello?
>While I find the idea of entrapment, compromising identies, and forcing your judgements on others to be reprehensible. Personally I find the idea that someone chooses to spend their time outing age-players as particularly pathetic, this is a creature of SL’s own creation.
Uh, well, of the two occupations, I’m going to make a safer bet and say the ageplayer is the more pathetic, but there’s nothing inherently “jingoistic” or “American” or “church-lady” about wishing to follow up on a topic the Lindens claim is now unlawful.
>SL chose to stop age-verification to give them a modicum of defense in these arguements. However, a number of the previous posts argue quite convincingly that age is not determiner of maturity and that if something offends-it must be burned. As well, people who get all upset that a linden may or may not have used their position to avenge a past wrong (and I see no evidence of this other then that from a fanatic, and I learned long ago to discount fanatics.) Using a blog, or the power of a blog to do the same is somehow more equable?
I guess you don’t read? Meta Linden herself has apologized for attempting to pressure the blogger to remove content she didn’t like, which she had developed sensitivities about herself. it’s a truth on the ground, not some “fanaticism”. If anything, the fanaticism is the Linden crusading on a third-party blog, my God, don’t they have enough to do???
Using a blog to crusade is perfectly fine. Using the power of office to go beyond the constraints of the TOS, which bind Lindens, too, is not fine. Sorry you’re unable to grasp the distinctions of the restrictions needed on the power of office such as to make a fair world for all and freedom for all.
>I read a conversation where someone at LL said some things regarding interpretation of terms of service…did the person get banned in-world? No, should she/he/it have – imho yes. I think that publicity of this licenscious activity is negative publicity to LL and in effect suggest that LL promotes this. This is, of course false, but I don’t think it would take too good of a lawyer to prove this.
I have no idea what you are talking about here.
>And this active antagonism of Lindens is offensive to me as the Lindenism worship is. They are people selling a product, which is what everyone with a job does. Buy it or not – your choice.
Hardly. They are making what constitutes an entire medium, a Metaverse, and laying the track for practices and norms that will obtain for a long time to come. That’s why it’s worth bothering with. They are not selling washtubs, but a world.
.
May 15th, 2007
penis
shockwave yareach
May 16th, 2007
Prokofy:
Yes, you are renting server space. Just renting. What takes place in the space you rent is of grave concern to you, certainly. However, the spaces others rent and what they do within it is no business of yours, just as what you do in your space is no business of theirs. If you want LL to say that public behavior must be rated PG13 or better, I have no issue. But so long as no RL US laws are broken, what adults do with other adults in their own systems (that they pay for, keep in mind) is their own business.
I don’t give a tinkers damn what the laws are in Germany or Iran (hey, gotten your Burka for your AV yet?) If the Germans want to complain about something on SL, then they can call the US State Dept. like everyone else has to do. LL cannot possibly adhere to every law in every country in the world. Nor should they even try. US law holds since the servers are on US soil. Name which US law was broken and let the files be charged on teh suspect users.
Prokofy Neva
May 16th, 2007
Yes, you are renting server space. Just renting. What takes place in the space you rent is of grave concern to you, certainly. However, the spaces others rent and what they do within it is no business of yours, just as what you do in your space is no business of theirs. If you want LL to say that public behavior must be rated PG13 or better, I have no issue. But so long as no RL US laws are broken, what adults do with other adults in their own systems (that they pay for, keep in mind) is their own business.
For that matter, even the Lindens are only renting. I reject arguments that rant on about how we are all just renters here. That sidesteps the issue, and sidesteps the eventual “host-your-own” paradigm which is supposed to make the metaver.
I disagree that there is somehow some uber sacrosanct “I get to do what the fuck I want in my home and fuck off everybody” ethic that I need to endorse. It’s like the argument about wife-beating. It’s a crime, and my neighbour beating his wife loses that “sanctity of the home” when he does that, and I call the police, and he is liable for battery. It’s just that simple. There’s no absolute here, that you have absolute and extreme rights to do whatever the fuck you want endlessly.
You fail to concede that in fact laws *are* broken for many countries, including the US, if this degree of sadism and depravity with simulated child rape is permitted. You can’t keep endlessly invoking Internet lawyerisms.
>I don’t give a tinkers damn what the laws are in Germany or Iran (hey, gotten your Burka for your AV yet?) If the Germans want to complain about something on SL, then they can call the US State Dept. like everyone else has to do. LL cannot possibly adhere to every law in every country in the world. Nor should they even try. US law holds since the servers are on US soil. Name which US law was broken and let the files be charged on teh suspect users.
Well, um, that’s what the Lindens are doing. They are saying if you want to engage in adult activity, flag your lot, and you’re on your own. In fact, your ideology is their ideology, and that’s what you can’t stomach: they are not playing nanny and playing protection for you. You will have your own lot, just like you wanted, and be answerable to it with RL authorities. Good luck.
And I hardly think that objecting or penalizing child rape is equivalent to making women wear burqas. In fact, the depravity of raping a child is more like putting the burqua on, and trying to whitewash it as allowable as “freedom” is as specious as claiming that putting on burquas is creating freedom.
shockwave yareach
May 16th, 2007
“I disagree that there is somehow some uber sacrosanct “I get to do what the fuck I want in my home and fuck off everybody” ethic that I need to endorse. It’s like the argument about wife-beating. It’s a crime, and my neighbour beating his wife loses that “sanctity of the home” when he does that, and I call the police, and he is liable for battery. It’s just that simple. There’s no absolute here, that you have absolute and extreme rights to do whatever the fuck you want endlessly.” – Prok
Actually, unless I am breaking a law – IE wifebeating – then yes, I CAN do whatever I want in my own place. If I want to make a 200m shrine to naughty bits on my sim, so long as it isn’t publically visible, then that’s what I’ll do. If it disturbs you, then nothing forces you to hang around my personal area. You don’t want to see furry gor mecha ageplay? (I like that one – think I’ll write it down) Then don’t go to the private sim with furry gor mecha ageplay in it. Unless someone is breaking a law or their “activity” is publically visible, frankly, it isn’t anyone elses business what takes place in their or anyone else’s territory. You have no right to be unoffended no matter where you go and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
I don’t want LL to play nanny. I don’t want LL to say “Oh, no more X and Y and you people who are into Z, knock it off” when it’s nothing but adults sitting and watching cartoons thousands of miles apart. I don’t like Ageplay either – not my thing at all. But more severe is my dislike for some non-US govt. thinking it has the right to come in and start telling US citizens what they may and may not do. I will obey the laws of MY country. The laws of the rest of the world do not apply to me, morally or legally. And LL has no business trying to enforce the laws of Germany, Iran, or Antarctica on US citizens.
All I’m saying is that if someone thinks a crime was committed, let the authorities handle it just like they would if the crime was on some street somewhere. Returning to your example, you heard the neighbor and you called the cops. You didn’t call the landlord, which is what the Germans are essentially doing here. If a real crime is seen in SL, call the real cops, in this case the FBI.
Hazim Gazov
May 16th, 2007
Did you enjoy your free tizzers porn, prok? FYI, Woodbury is where it all began.
Io Zeno
May 17th, 2007
“And LL has no business trying to enforce the laws of Germany, Iran, or Antarctica on US citizens.” -shockwave yareach
Actually, they do. They could enforce the laws of Zortogo, the imaginary country that exists only in Philip’s mind if they want. LL isn’t the United States, it’s just a company that resides in the US. SL isn’t a real country with rights guaranteed to it’s citizens. It is a privately owned business. The only rights you have on their servers are those that they decide to grant you.
I think this Meta Linden was just new and overzealous, I can’t imagine what the atmosphere among the Lindens is right now after all this crap hurled at them.
In fact I’m rather stunned that Madame McAllister is still doing business at all after all this ruckus.
Prokofy Neva
May 17th, 2007
I think this Meta Linden was just new and overzealous, I can’t imagine what the atmosphere among the Lindens is right now after all this crap hurled at them.
1. I disagree about all this “new and overzealous” stuff. She’s a resident. A resident of some length of stay, not born yesterday. So she’s cognizant of the norms and just decided to use her Linden powers.
2. She got bent out of shape about limitations she felt were going to be put on her own personal freedom or her friends’ personal freedom and couldn’t see the larger community issues of what is at stake for the whole platform, and that’s typical of the usual pull-the-blanket-on-myself ethos of Second Life.
3. She was operating in a climate of impunity. She isn’t the first Linden to be freelancing and not the last — and there’s been more of them lately and that bespeaks a) too many Lindens coming too fast with not enough training but actually more b) LL inculcating in them not ethics under a set of rules called “a code of conduct” but zeal in terms of a Kool-Aid drinking Better World project. That’s no substitute for a code of conduct.
Najmah/Toy
May 18th, 2007
I see you still base all you arguments on suppositions Prok.
Let’s face it all the supposed facts we are hearing about this whole situations is based on some words posted on a web page and claimed as fact. Is it all true or not, I’m in no position to make that supposition.
Until I am given proof, legal proof, this remains simply drama, which you happen to thrive on.
I was glad to see Artemis, my old friend, posting still. I also noticed you have chosen to ignore her. Remind you of someone else you choose to ignore after you couldn’t make logical replies to her questions?
I would side with Meta on this, even though I don’t know as a Linden or as her main char., I simply realize people do, and are prone to, making mistakes once in awhile. Some of us are willing to admit this, others aren’t.
Such narrow mindedness does not win debates or discussions. Let’s try to keep our thoughts centered and not try to be “The Winner” or “Savior”.
I will gladly be the optimistic person I have always been.
BTW Prok, I don’t expect a reply, remember you said you would ignore me from now on, which has been quite a few years ago
And to Artemis, welcome to Prok’s ignore list
Prokofy Neva
May 18th, 2007
>I see you still base all you arguments on suppositions Prok.
Of course it’s my *right* base arguments on suppositions, that’s rational. This story isn’t conjecture, however, but a record of actual blog postings and chat logs. You’re imagining it is somehow speculative just because you wish it to be — nice try, though!
>Let’s face it all the supposed facts we are hearing about this whole situations is based on some words posted on a web page and claimed as fact. Is it all true or not, I’m in no position to make that supposition. Until I am given proof, legal proof, this remains simply drama, which you happen to thrive on.
Uh, well…let’s see. I *could* take the very long “dialogue” I had with this Linden inworld and see if I could somehow get it notarized as a chat log, but I don’t see any need to publish a private conversation between 2 people that wasn’t in a public meeting. I don’t know what *would* constitute proof to your satisfaction, but given that this Linden apologized and retracted her warning, and also posted here, I figure it’s as good as it gets. I don’t see anything being denied whatsoever. This is just one of those manipulative distraction techniques. Maybe you and csven have been attending the same weekend propaganda seminars : )
>I was glad to see Artemis, my old friend, posting still. I also noticed you have chosen to ignore her. Remind you of someone else you choose to ignore after you couldn’t make logical replies to her questions?
I’ve hardly ignored Artemis. I’ve answered everything she’s thrown at me. I don’t see any stone left unturned. She’s claimed that my posting number and date stamp at Second Citizen somehow “makes me a member of the tribe” or “implicates me with the tribe Second Citizen,” but as I’ve often explained, I don’t belong to the tribe, I refuse to take the imposed avatar, and I post there in response to attacks on myself. I do not start threads, or participate in threads on some other subject than the attacks on myself and griefing of myself. I figure it’s the least I can do to defend myself.
Artemis has behaved despiccably to me for ages. Urizenus finally even upbraided her. And finally the tumblers clicked in my head, and I called her on what I think is “up” with this shit, and I think judging from her silence since then, I was on the money.
>I would side with Meta on this, even though I don’t know as a Linden or as her main char., I simply realize people do, and are prone to, making mistakes once in awhile. Some of us are willing to admit this, others aren’t.
Meta is no newbie, whatever her new status as a Linden. She felt she could use her Linden powers to accomplish what her resident account could not, full stop. The concept of sincerity and making mistakes can’t be implied or attributed here because the trail is clear: trying to silence a blogger and trying to force them into political correctness.
>Such narrow mindedness does not win debates or discussions. Let’s try to keep our thoughts centered and not try to be “The Winner” or “Savior”.
Erm, my thoughts are all very centered, thank you very much. When Lindens abuse the power of office and thuggishly begin to pressure people with things like TOS warnings and takedown notices outside their TOS jurisdiction, you bet I’m going to scream. It’s too bad I don’t have more company doing this. Your friend Second Citizen is strangely silent, too. Interesting, that. I can just bet that if a Linden appeared to tell Second Citizen to take down the material that discloses my RL information since that’s a violation of the TOS, the howling would be heard across the land. None of you have any grasp or notion of principle.
>I will gladly be the optimistic person I have always been.
>BTW Prok, I don’t expect a reply, remember you said you would ignore me from now on, which has been quite a few years ago
And to Artemis, welcome to Prok’s ignore list
I will go on ignoring your efforts to try to rewind a debate already intellectually won by those like me who can expose the lie of BDSM. I don’t have the time to keep playing back the tape. Go back to the old pages of the Herald. Or read everything about the latest version of this diabolical perversion of reality, the “ageplay” gambit.
Are we to forget that you, by your own admission, was recruited into BDSM at the age of 17?
Artemis isn’t “on ignore,” but let’s hope she’s finally been put in her place.
Brace
May 18th, 2007
Meta lindie is the end result of what I gave up trying to put an end to years ago.
I’m with coco on this
what a fookin mess.
Bemmy/Dr
May 18th, 2007
apparently this whole story has a different twist to it.
1. linden posts on his transgender account pissed off by an article by blogger.
2. linden logs into linden account and threatens bannage if blogger dont delete blog (pointing to some other articles).
3. blogger does not step down, linden admits defeat and tires to hide the fact of (1)
the story has nothing to do with age-play, rather very interesting look at what alternate accoutns and lindens could lead to abuse.
honey wedt has posted a detailed article on the timeline and what role Meta Linden played. this is very troubling.
http://honeywendt.blogspot.com/2007/05/dear-linden-lab-is-this-what-you-call.html
warm fuzzies
May 18th, 2007
((Prok, I am not surprised at this. This is a major privacy issue, though no one cares much about it in SL. ))–Defne
I agree. While I by no means condone AgePlay, Linden Lab has made it very clear to users that exposing personal information or IM communications is forbidden and is considered a breach of TOS. IF such is the case… whether that information is exposed in-world, on a blog somewhere else, or in a private letter from one person to another would constitute a breach of TOS and punishable according to standard LL policy. If anything, I would say that LL has not been strict enough on such invasions of privacy.
Mark
May 18th, 2007
*removed the references to my gender*
Yes, a reference to your gender that did not state your gender.
No rewrite of history on my part, asshole, that’s your territory, rewriting, fabricating, and making all sorts of wild ass accusations based upon mere speculation.
Sadako Shikami
May 18th, 2007
Why am I not surprised at all by this? I received an IM from a Linden – Harry Linden – a while back about my classified ad for skins containing “explicit nudity” i.e. “eensy little 2-pixel nipples” (http://www.sadakoshikami.com/blog/?p=85 for more info). He never wrote back with apology or clarification, and I didn’t hear about anyone else receiving the same IM. Harry, however, isn’t new, like Meta.
This is why I like Cube Linden. Man, he is EXPLICIT.
Karen Palen
May 24th, 2007
Philip Rosedale talks a good line about freedom of expression, but when it comes to “unpleasant” ideas like small avatars he folds.
The word for that is hypocrisy!
For example, exactly WHAT *IS* the “simulated age” of an avatar?
When this whole fuss started I discussed this with a 50 year old woman who is 4ft tall in real life.
She claimed that the real discrimination was not age but height! If you are 4ft tall you *MUST* be a child – no debate allowed!
I have had the privilege of knowing this woman for over 20 years now and have had the opportunity to witness this discrimination first hand.
At her suggestion (insistence?) I adopted her “persona” as my Second life Persona – Karen Palen.
I can now personally bear witness to the pain she faces every day!
Dumb things like having her 25 year old daughter told to “make your child behave”! Serious things like not being believed when she reports an attempted rape.
The fact is that “freedom of thought” means nothing unless the most extreme and upsetting thoughts are protected!
I have nowhere the contribution to Second Life that others of like mind do, but I too and leaving until such time as things change.
However as a Venture Capitalist by trade I can do something to see that an alternative is created!
This won’t happen overnight, but it IS in progress!
See http://www.ourstage.com/ for an example of one such project we are already finding. A truly “ungameable” music and video rating system!
Just imagine if Second Life was truly controlled by the users in this way and not controlled by a few loudmouthed pressure groups!
Mia fucking Linden
Jul 13th, 2007
my account with secondlife was banned for no reason no exsplanation no care, no mail no contact no warning just banned, Ive come to realise what thiefs and heartless mother fucking redneck inbred fucktards these americans shites are,
i mean if i could get to any of you!! uld be fucking dead!! ild slit ur fucking linden throats from ear to fucking ear and skin ur fucking children infront of you, if i ever manage to get hold of any of ur personel info ur fucking deaad mother fucking scum american bastards
as u can tell im slightly fucked off, do ya know how many hundreds thousands lindens i invested in my account
god every time one of u american scum dies it brings fucking happyness to my fucking life i really hope tomorrow ur all fucking dead,
Fuck U Fuck Off
DaveOner
Jul 13th, 2007
Sounds like euro-trash here forgot to take some meds!
Alyx Stoklitsky
Jul 13th, 2007
>Mia fucking Linden
Learn how to troll properly for fuck sake.