Innovative… Beautiful… Timeless… Ripoffs?
by Pixeleen Mistral on 20/06/07 at 8:42 am
by Tenshi Vielle, Fabulous Fashionista
Elexor Matador Jewelry has made some serious L$s lately, what with all the fan press they’re getting. Problem is, they may be ripping off Cartier and various other high-end, real-world designers. Just how much money is involved? Elexor made 25 of the faux-Cartier pieces, and is selling them for L$10k a piece. L$250,000 is when it starts getting interesting. How similar is the design? Check it out for yourself:
Elexor Matador design “Limited Edition” for the opening of his sim, only 25 sold
Cartier from real life
The resemblance is uncanny. The avatar that tipped me off was not pleased, and said, “It just seems so unethical to me… I really don’t know him at all – but I would be PISSED if I found out that I paid $25,000L for a hack design no matter how well executed,” she said, “…its not much better than the people who rip textures and resell them.”
That opinion is open for debate, however, and many people have different, occasionally conflicting thoughts on the subject. I caught up with a few designers to get their opinions.
Emma Gilmour said, “well, I think that if they realize that it is not really ethical to do that, and continue to do it, then they are guilty. But I can say for myself that getting the hang of SL being an ACTUAL virtual world, I didn’t take it very seriously for a few months after I was already designing, and at the time was photosourcing designs from RL brands, and making lindens from it. It wasn’t until later as I got more and more USED to SL, that I realized that it was in fact copying, and I stopped doing it. The truth is, if you’re making money off of it, it should be your own design unless you have permission.”
Judging from Emma’s answer, it is simply the passing of time that will make you realize that copying is bad? What if they’re a “high-end”, much blogged designer? Does that make it worth pursuing?
Nylon Pinkney: ripping off completely isn’t cool, but putting your own style on it
Tenshi Vielle: Well, that’s how I mean. It’s blatantly ripping off not just spinning it into something new
Nylon Pinkney: i mean i cant say i totally disapprove
Of course, Elexor Matador isn’t the first avatar that may have to ripped off a RL brand. There is another in-world shop called “All Emerican Outfitters” that imitates two RL brands, American Eagle and Hollister. Same font, similar shop layouts, and it appears that the reason the shop was named “All Emerican” was so they could draft off American Eagle’s famous “AE” logo.
“Antie [of Artilleri] and I were banned from the shop for discussing how badly they (Emerican) are ripping those RL brands off,” Emma Glimour tells me, disgusted. “The shop owner wasn’t even there when we were doing it.” Apparently, the shop owner has listeners set up in her shop and bans anyone making the comparison. If you dare go against her, speak in IM’s! The shop owner already has a long list of bans on her property.
All Emerican Outfitters is currently in a rebuilding process, and they are making their shop appear more like the inside of a Holister shop – dark, dank, and sexual. “You won’t be disappointed!” said one gal standing inside the AE shop when I went to visit. Well… yes. I think I will be.
Check out the few pics I was able to pull from the new shop’s build and decide for yourself. Pay special attention to “their” logo.
where have we seen this before?
deja vu?
I find the idea of taking someone else’s designs, logos, and names entirely unethical. Not only that, but it is quite possibly illegal. Do I smell a copyright lawsuit? Why is this practice so common in Second Life? Should the creators be paid simply because they took time to make a product, or does creativity count?
Tenshi Vielle
Jun 21st, 2007
“The target of them did not actually sour their neighbor’s milk or cause their children to be stillborn as accused.”
Really? I said this? I don’t remember putting such an over the top spin on things. I reported the facts as they are. How people have reacted is their own opinion. Although I don’t remember causing any stillborns.
Uri? Did anyone write the Herald saying I caused their children to be stillborn and to have sour milk?
Reality
Jun 21st, 2007
tenshi – Please grow up and join the rest of the real world.
You know, those of us who do not give two shits as to this little thing you like to think is some great crime.
In fact, since you seem to have missed it, here is my original comment to your ‘article’ which was made with the express purpose of inciting anger and rage over a non issue.
and I quote:
“Ok, so someone is making similar – but not exact – versions of Real Life apparel and other things in Second Life …..
We should give a flying fuck …. Why?
These items – sold only in Second Life – do not exist outside that nice little pixel space` and thus are not detracting from the sale of these real life items.”
Have a pleasant day – you fit in with some of these ‘reporters’.
Vel Noarlunga
Jun 21st, 2007
Wow, a necklace with circles and spheres… something so groundbreaking! Bound to change life on Earth as we know it. And I’m talking about the Cartier.
My plan is to open a clothing shop in SL, sooner or later, and since I’m going to sell shirts and pants I think they are not going to be that ORIGINAL at all. I don’t think I’ll be able to create something that no one on this planet has already seen or thought before.
But it’s very cool that some people think so high of themselves. I envy your self-esteem. Not so much the short-sightedness that comes with it, maybe.
(And I would NEVER buy that SL jewels for that amount of money, by the way)
Samantha Poindexter
Jun 21st, 2007
Quoth Tenshi: “Nobody likes a fake artist.”
Not true. I like a fake artist!
csven
Jun 21st, 2007
“do you think if I fabricated Elexor’s piece with a 3D printer and told her it was a Cartier she would notice the difference?”
Is your girlfriend visually-impaired and missing digits?
|
Jun 21st, 2007
talk about the kettle calling the pot black. why don’t you shit on your precious friend callie cline? callie cline? calvin klein? huh? and what about her cc logo. chanel? duh.
A.N.
Jun 21st, 2007
IRL, I work for a company that produces radio controlled toy cars, with licenses like Mercedes, Ferrari, and various other big brands, and recently we started production of a few Starwars toys as well.
To put their design and name on it, varying per brand, licenses are required and those cost a small fortune in some cases. There are also companies that alter the designs very very slightly and change the name a little to get away with not paying money to the big car brands they’re making the toys of.
In the gaming industry, it is exactly the same: if your racing game features a Ferrari, you’re gonna have to pay big bucks to be able to do that. And an example like Grand Theft Auto, every single vehicle is clearly meant to resemble their RL counterparts… But they aren’t licensed, and the creators solved this by combining car brand models… Like the part Ferrari Testarossa (front and doors) part Corvette (rear end) in GTA: Vice City.
There is one big difference tho:
Ferrari definately goes after the Fellali RC car manufacturer, but wouldn’t care as much about GTA. Simply because the computergame isn’t really cashing in on Ferrari’s designs and name, while the near-exact copy RC version is.
I see the RC copy as a ripoff, the GTA game ersion more as inspirational and a homage. They could have gotten the licences and made a real ferrari in GTA, but I think they didn’t cause they didn’t want it to be exactly a ferrari. That, and as I said, licenses are really expensive, specially for over 50 vehicles in one game. It just wouldn’t be profitable.
Leilui
Jun 21st, 2007
I don’t see any direct ripoff here. I see a virtual set inspired by some RL Cartier.
You sure have a big mouth for someone that has barely dipped their feet into the pool (both in RL and SL). Do you do this in all avenues of your life? Hate on people to compensate for whatever it is you’re compensating for?
Fortunately, we will never know your parents. They must be real pieces of work to have produced such a gutter sniping and vapid harpy. I do hope they’re proud!
Benjamin Duranske (avatar 'Benjamin Noble')
Jun 21st, 2007
Couple of points.
First, it’s trademark law, not copyright law, that’s primarily involved here. One can copyright jewelry design, but it’s an uphill battle because, among other reasons, one can’t copyright a common design or style, and one can’t copyright minor variations of something that’s already in the public domain.
Second, there *is* a trademark issue here. Somehow overlooked in all of this is the fact that this is advertised in the store as a “Himalia” necklace. Even though “Cartier” isn’t on the advertising materials, “Himalia” is, and “Himalia” is a registered trademark of Cartier, and Cartier uses the mark to as the name of the set this jewelry appears to be based on. Links, pictures and stuff at VB.
http://virtuallyblind.com/2007/06/21/expensive-luxury-knockoffs-raise-trademark-stakes/
urizenus
Jun 21st, 2007
Thanks for that, Ben. At first I thought this story was a kind of point of social norms — don’t claim to be offering original if yer a copier — but clearly the ‘Himalia’ business raises trademark issues.
Tenshi Vielle
Jun 21st, 2007
Thanks for the background, Benjamin. If EMJ really wanted to avoid all of this, he could have just said it was “Cartier Inspired” from the get-go. “As advertised in the Second Life Herald”? That’s very cute, although not awfully witty. If they really want to come clean they can put some link to the Cartier original, and credit to them for the design.
Anonymous
Jun 21st, 2007
“Uri? Did anyone write the Herald saying I caused their children to be stillborn and to have sour milk?”
Oh Tenshi. Comprehension really isn’t your strong suit. Try Sylvan – I hear they can help with that.
Also… how could EMJ say Cartier MADE the necklace in SL? Does Cartier get into torturing prims?
Kit Maitland
Jun 21st, 2007
Okies so…maybe someone can explain how the fact that it’s a reproduction piece makes Lex less of an artist?
I mean hey…if just anyone could accurately reproduce a rw jewelry piece with prims…and make it look fantastic enough that some people would be willing to pay $L10,000 for it (and btw folks…just b/c that’s the price doesn’t make anyone obligated to BUY…I’ve not yet seen Lex holding a gun to ppl’s heads to force them to purchase his wares)…then why aren’t we all just doing that instead of wasting our time on this nonsense?
Tenshi Vielle
Jun 21st, 2007
“Also… how could EMJ say Cartier MADE the necklace in SL? Does Cartier get into torturing prims?”
What kind of crap are you smoking? EMJ should be saying that the piece is INSPIRED by Cartier, or possibly even a duplication of the RL Cartier piece.
Reality
Jun 21st, 2007
And what are you smoking tenshi?
Here’s a thought for you – notify the real life jewelry maker of this ‘infringement’ and see what their response is.
anyone want to bet that they will not give a shit?
see – that is how you see if it really is an issue dearie … see if the company that is being copied actually cares about a world where the copies of their wares do not really exist.
csven
Jun 21st, 2007
“then why aren’t we all just doing that instead of wasting our time on this nonsense?”
I can’t speak to others’ reasons, but my interest is the impact using Real Life trademarks has on native Second Life brands. I don’t care about the real companies. I care about how people in SL leverage RL brand reputation and trade recognition to bolster their *own* sales and adversely impact other people’s businesses in SL who aren’t freeloading on a RL company’s good name.
Allowing this sort of thing – whether or not it’s illegal IRL – arguably harms the SL economy. That’s bad for everyone afaic.
Anonymous
Jun 22nd, 2007
I believe I’ve finally cracked the mystery of what Tenshi’s name stands for. TEN is how old she acts and SHI is an abbereviated version of shit, which is the valuation of all the words she’s typed in this article and in her ensuing comments. Or in other words, since your English comprehension doesn’t seem to be the best dear, you’re acting like a little ten year old shit who’s obviously masking a massive case of jealousy with this op/ed garbage. Poor wittle Tenishi’s sad excuse for a blog ellicits a tepid response from readers, if there are any, and her articles for the Herald are either severely boring or full of spiteful comments that she hopes will provoke flame wars and feed her desperate need for attention. Get off your high horse and go do something worthwhile little girl, like maybe getting a life?
Anonymous
Jun 22nd, 2007
Tenshi, I have to say, I don’t know you in person but from reading your articles you do come off as spiteful and ignorant. First of all, as a designer yourself you should be very, very careful when criticizing the ethics and actions of other designers, some of whom might potentially be your direct competitors. Where is your disclosure clause? Without it, you’re practically a poster girl for conflict of interest. Second, somehow many of your articles and postings seem to have a hidden agenda which, sadly, is not even hidden that well. Recently you’ve been using the Herald as a platform for getting back at people whom you dislike for whatever reason. This article is an example. Your petty critique of the SC fashion show, which was a blatant attempt to get back at a forum that unceremoniously kicked you out, is another example. Grow up already, will you?
Meng Deigan
Jun 22nd, 2007
For the last poster who was too much of a chickensh*t to leave their name while spewing a bunch of hatred and personal insults… you do realize of course that you are not one iota better than you say Tenshi is by lowering yourself to that kind of language? If you don’t like what she has to say, be a big girl and refute the issue and not insult the author.
And for those who think Tenshi is just “out to get them” remember that it was someone else who brought the Cartier issue to her attention. There’s nothing op/ed about the fact that its a copy selling for an inflated price. And no, Cartier may not give two shits about this, but they just might want to make an example out of Elexor – or the next company might to the person who does the same type of thing and that is a serious problem for SL as a whole.
My issue is not with the pricing, because there are designers in SL who make stunning original limited edition items that I believe are worth the price – and I have paid that price, so I am in that demographic. I would just feel personally ripped off if I paid that price for something that wasn’t an original creation.
For those who like to say – “Oh, I want to have things in SL that I will never have in real life!” that’s all well and good but not the point of this article I think. If you are going to market yourself as a “creative, high end, elite designer” and set high prices, you should be original in your work. It’s really as simple as that.
shockwave yareach
Jun 22nd, 2007
25,000L for virtual jewelry? Bling? Bling that doesn’t do anything? And here I thought the hyperexpensive beds were silly — this eclipses it easily.
feek
Jun 24th, 2007
Well he must not be making good money as his classified Ad is only for $50L.
I’m not condoning his actions.. I don’t even like the guy. Hes a jerk & his jewelry (when he was taking advantage of my friend’s kindness for free space in her Sim when he had his own…) sucked for the most part. He may have gotten better with his prims or he may have some “silent partner” help.. I don’t care, I will never buy from him.
Now you know I am not bias in his favor. I think getting inspiration from a RL design is OK since this is a virtual world. Inspiration and direct copying are two completely different things. With jewelry, the only thing you could directly try to copy is the texture of the ring/diamond etc.. Building the prims of a necklace from looking at a picture is not copying. Yes it is unoriginal and lacking imagination but.. What isn’t? Just about everything has been done before. New concepts are just recycled ones with new flare.
Well, again I am not approving his actions but I am sure most or at least half of the big jewelry designers in SL have gotten some of their inspirations from RL jewelry without adding much flare of their own.
In closing, can’t we all just.. shut up and have a good time?
whatever
Jun 25th, 2007
$25k for that?!?! That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. First off it’s a knock off of a rl item which we see all the time in SL so no originality there, secondly the jewelry looks pretty lame anyways so why create it? All it looks like to me is some spheres and circles, wow, must have taken at least 2 hours to make. Anyone who bought this piece of crap should be ashamed as they could have donated the $ to Relay For Life and helped a worthy cause.
There sure are a bunch of suckers in SL who will buy anything as long as it has a “Limited Edition” or other such nonsense tied into it.
Tina Travanti
Jun 25th, 2007
What the hell does how much his classified ad costs have anything to do with how successful he is? And why the hell do you care so much to dig that up?
Laughable coming from someone who had a store for 5 minutes in SL. Maybe you didn’t spend enough on your classified since that’s your measure of financial success in SL
feek
Jun 25th, 2007
Tina. I write scripts for money and have no need for a store. The store was mainly for a friend’s clothes if you must know.
Why you even attempted to troll my post is laughable as the issue is not about me. If you read what I wrote you would see I was semi-standing up for Lex on this issue. He obviously noticed this as he has contacted me since I first posted. Not about the bullshit that is coming out of your mouth, but about the sim situation I mentioned. So I ask, why should you speak?
Just go on being the SLho you are, shut the fuck up, and keep on enjoying what we coders do for your alt ass.
Tina Travanti
Jun 25th, 2007
Oooooh, touchy, touchy! Hit close to home, huh Freeaky? I didn’t call names, I just stated facts. I thought it was stalker-ish to take the time to look up all that shit on some other guy.
No trolling in particular, this article has been more than entertaining. It shows up on my blog feed. And I won’t even call YOU a troll..lmao.
As far as speaking, I could ask you the same question…like anyone gives a shit what YOU think? Ummm, no.
Alt? Nope. I just don’t spend every waking minute in SL like most of you no-lifers.
Viajero Pugilist
Jun 27th, 2007
“Whatever” has the best comment here:
“Anyone who bought this piece of crap should be ashamed as they could have donated the $ to Relay For Life and helped a worthy cause.
There sure are a bunch of suckers in SL who will buy anything as long as it has a “Limited Edition” or other such nonsense tied into it.”
I also believe it is very sad that people spend so much money in SL, let alone RL, for fashion. $25,000L (approximately $100USD) for pixel jewelry? $1000L is luxury, $25,000L is Marie Antoinette-level arrogance. I feel you’ve got to have pretty twisted, out-of-touch values to spend that sum on your virtual avie when one billion of your fellow real-life human beings are living (and dying) on less than a dollar a day.
The Observer
Jun 27th, 2007
I’m curious as how the price of the item has more than doubled. At first the author says it’s 10,000, then she quotes it as being 25,000. It’s a $10,000L item, and through this whole hubub, it appears he’s only sold 2, as there are 23 still for sale.
Talk about poor journalism…I wonder if these facts were mentioned if it would have been as ‘juicy’ of a story…
Oh, and by the way…would I spend $10,000 on jewelry? No flippin’ way.
The Facts
Jun 27th, 2007
I believe the $25,000L figure mentioned in the quote comes from the price of the two limited editions – Himalia, which was 10,000 (now renamed Moon of Jupiter, incidentally…) and the replica diamond engagement ring, priced at 15,000.
Via
Jun 28th, 2007
Whether $25,000L, $15,000L, or $10,000L, “Whatever” has it right, I believe: it’s basically immoral, and nonsense.
You’re using the confusion about price as another chance to market this overpriced glittery crap to “the beautiful people”. lol, how funny, and how sad.
micsxhurtx3
Jul 27th, 2007
Ok, honestly, if there was such a problem with the prices and/or merchandise, the customers wouldn’t be purchasing it. If you want to make such a stand, then go ahead and do so. Don’t support these businesses that you believe are wrong. If people side with you, and see your point, these businesses will decrease in sales, and eventually have to close up. So you see, people must adore these items to keep purchasing them and keeping these businesses, well, “in business”.
And as for the childish insults…think of something worth our time reading, please.
Via
Aug 3rd, 2007
Yes, in the crazy RL world, many oblivious and vain consumers continue to sport real fur coats, eat endandered species, fly private jets and drive Hummers, enjoy cockfights and dogfights. and wear Prada.
Why not point out when activities are selfish, hedonistic, have a big carbon footprint, or basically hurt people or the planet?
Yes, micsxhurtx3, you can take a stand on a topic in a thread such as this, particularly when you are moved or offended, in hopes that you affect another reader. I rarely do, but when this item caught my eye, I felt disgusted.
And my opinion is this: “Anyone who bought this piece of crap should be ashamed as they could have donated the $ to Relay For Life and helped a worthy cause.
There sure are a bunch of suckers in SL who will buy anything as long as it has a “Limited Edition” or other such nonsense tied into it.”
Yes, I believe people who “adore” an astounding $40 or $60USD status-seeking piece of virtual bling for their SL avatars are shallow and spoiled consumers. That amount of money, the equivalent of a month’s wages for a single family in many developing countries, is a poster child for frivilous excess in a hungry world.
The fact that this crap sell only means there are a lot of you childish people around.
micsxhurtx3
Aug 5th, 2007
Actually, thank you for quoting what someone had said earlier, because I hadn’t read it until just now. I completely agree with you on the price situation, but as for the “copying” of products and merchandise, what I had said before is still where I stand.
This is coming from someone who goes to the local high school every year and helps out with the relay for life, and someone who is a vegetarian because of the animal cruelty. I’m very for all things to help out, thats why I believe those prices are rediculous, and its why I am all for what you are saying.
*not*on*my*watch*
Jan 24th, 2008
I would like to take this oppertunity.. all be it a tad late.. but to really express my views on AE (All Emerican).
… They Freakin Rock.
Explanation on the arrival of this analysis? …simple. These people take real life designs and incorporate them into a wearable format for people in there second life endevours. I mean.. lets face it… who would really want to wear some of the “Noob” like designs made by a lot of self so-called designers in SL today?
Personally.. id much rather be flaunting a cleverly renamed and very well executed Hollister or American Eagle shirt over a badly textured “appearance edited” cut … THING. (its all i could think of describing it as!!)
If anybody is still keeping tabs on this blog.. which i doubt since the reason why it was created in the first place is just rediculous… but if they are – then please. Take the time and ask yourself …
Would’nt you want to look good in something you particularly liked, regardless of where it originates from?
Thanx
Tenshi_the_Hoe_Hater
Jan 24th, 2008
I would like to take this oppertunity.. all be it a tad late.. but to really express my views on AE (All Emerican).
… They Freakin Rock.
Explanation on the arrival of this analysis? …simple. These people take real life designs and incorporate them into a wearable format for people in there second life endevours. I mean.. lets face it… who would really want to wear some of the “Noob” like designs made by a lot of self so-called designers in SL today?
Personally.. id much rather be flaunting a cleverly renamed and very well executed Hollister or American Eagle shirt over a badly textured “appearance edited” cut … THING. (its all i could think of describing it as!!)
If anybody is still keeping tabs on this blog.. which i doubt since the reason why it was created in the first place is just rediculous… but if they are – then please. Take the time and ask yourself …
Would’nt you want to look good in something you particularly liked, regardless of where it originates from?
Thanx