French Watchdogs Yap at Linden Lab
by Pixeleen Mistral on 04/06/07 at 9:28 am
More reasons for “Keeping Second Life Safe, Together”?
by Onder Skall
GamePolitics reported today that the parent-teacher group Familles de France (FdF), in yet another effort to avoid raising their own children, is suing Linden Lab for allowing access to pornographic material to minors. They were recently shocked to discover that the Internet has porn on it, apparently it’s all on Second Life, and Linden Lab is responsible.
According to the french newspaper Liberation.fr (hilariously translated version here) ten ISPs have also been named in the suit specifically because they provide access to Second Life. May the gods help us all if they ever discover Google image search.
Familles de France is as big of a joke to the average Frenchman as Jack Thompson is to Americans. Their constant push to have the government replace parents is simultaneously hilarious and terrifying.
What’s nice about it though is that people like these give us the rare opportunity to serve the public good by ridiculing someone. Hey, if we have to suffer the ignorance of others, we might as well have fun doing it.
Jesus
Jun 4th, 2007
The internet is not a truck you can just dump something on; its a series of tubes.
Alyx Stoklitsky
Jun 4th, 2007
O NOEZ!
humanoid
Jun 4th, 2007
The Lindens have already caved to people like this with their current policy. I see no reason why letting more prudes join the fun would make much of a difference.
dandellion Kimban
Jun 4th, 2007
There is porn on the internet?! Can you provide some links, please?
Panda
Jun 4th, 2007
Here you go, dandellion:
http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/06/siobhan_oflynn_.html
Nicholaz Beresford
Jun 4th, 2007
There’s no such things as bad publicity … Linden Lab is the Paris Hilton of the game industry.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 4th, 2007
Onder, precisely because the Internet is the thing it is, they may not get very far with this, but if they do get anywhere, it will be about French ISPs and the French government, and not Second Life per se. It may affect the way in which French citizens access SL, and if they are a strong enough lobby, along with other Internet activists they will likely prevail. I don’t see this as anything more than a nuisance lawsuit, however.
I think there are more realistic threats to freedom of debate on this subject right here at home in our international SL itself without going really far afield to some French “Focus on the Family” type group.
And that includes things like our neighbour in Patagonia, Csven Concord, taking pictures of our other neighbour in Patagonia who happens to have a swingset and jungle gym out, and calling this Prokofy’s Kiddie Land and trying to trump up hysteria around it. Where’s the Herald editorial called “In Patagonia?” Well?
I just wish your liberalism would get as exercised and as agitated at real things like that right under your nose, as much as fake things like this French stuff. I’d like to hear from you a full-throated repudiation of the tactics Csven is using to stifle debate — because you *do* agree, don’t you that debate can have two sides, and you *do* agree, don’t you, that if we keep a world free, it’s not just for freedom of the politically-correct view, but a variety of views — right?
The irony, as you know, is tangible, as it involves C. Sven in fact having the position that simulated porn should be allowed — precisely so that hysterics don’t witch-hunt using photos of swingsets and thereby cramp free expression. So he’s using this tactic to try to make a claim that people like me who hold a different view, and are concerned about simulated porn and its affect in general on virtual as well as real life, are going to be using this tactic.
Except…we aren’t using this tactic, he is. That would be absurd. I’m not leading any crusade, and I sure as hell know the difference between a swingset and real child pornography. The question is whether you become so zealous about protecting against witch-hunting that you in fact endorse its use as a tactic on the other side.
And endorse it you do, by retaining silence about my permabanning at Clickable Culture (I mean here the collective you of the Herald editors and reporters); your silence about Csven’s intimidation of your fellow Herald reporter; and silence about the REAL way it is being played out here in our world, and casting far away to the FAKE ways it is being played in RL France. I find that hugely questionable, frankly. I don’t expect you to take on all the Herald’s moral housekeeping duties, but I expect you at least to um, resonate with concern.
As for the concept you are sneeringly portraying here of people wishing to allow the government to usurp their child-raising obligations, as a table-turning rhetorical tactic on “focus on family” type groups, I can only cry: bullshit. Both government and society at large and families have to be involved in child-raising at various levels. The idea that the family is some isolated little silo that should have extreme latitude in raising children anyway they want is one you’d object to strenuously if it involved homeschooling an entire next generation to believe in creationism and to shut off MTV. Then all of a sudden you’d wonder where government was, eh?
Parents take care of their kids and follow them online — but they can’t be everywhere, including at their schools and their friends’ home. I sure follow my kids, but precisely because I do follow them I’m well aware of the limitations. I do it in the most easiest way — making sure that the computer they use is in a family area where I can occasionally sit with them and discuss what they are doing and seeing. I do it not by barring participation in a Myspace or something, but by asking what they and their friends are getting out of it and putting into it.
But I’m not there with them 100 percent of the time, and I have to think also in general about the legions of kids who have no parents involved with them. And I see how literally strained and how broken the issue of child-raising is in our country precisely because I live it — and I suspect you don’t or you couldn’t be making these typically ignorant comments about “letting the government raise kids”.
The government needs to be involved in kids’ schooling and general raising as much as families. Families are not enough. Families are not what they used to — in the 19th century, with extentions of 3 generations of stay-at-home women, maybe “families” could raise kids. They can’t now. What is a family? It’s not like there’s Uncle Ernie and Aunt Bea everywhere.
It’s no longer the place where a child lives, where he may be with only one divorced parent, or with a grandparent who may not even speak English because his parents are in jail, drug-addicted, or dead. It’s no longer the place where his wealthy jet-setting parents are on vacation and leaving him at home.
What is a family? A family is more likely to be his World of Warcraft Guild, frankly, or his online buddies in AIM. That’s why we have to care about how the Internet is raising kids. And it is raising them poorly, not only because of exposure to things like porn or violence but exposure to the whole stealing ethic and concept of anonymous fucktardery, and stuff like Wikipedia’s tilted and biased rendering of world history.
I often have as many as 6 kids at my home after school precisely because as a parent working at home, my house is a logical place for them to come to so I guess I have a little bit of an idea of what challenges people actually literally face if they think they will be the ones to govern their children’s Internet activities, and have the state — which also means public schools — play no role. The world is not made up of Brady Bunches. Today, there are all kinds of situations — children who have new immigrant parents who work at menial jobs until all hours; children from single-parent households; children from households where the parents aren’t monitoring them for all kinds of reasons ranging from workaholism to alcoholism.
The government has to care, too, in this setting – and that means primarily the schools. Kids spend a lot of time at school online, too — what, there’s not going to be any program there for monitoring even in school, in your view???
csven
Jun 4th, 2007
“that includes things like our neighbour in Patagonia, Csven Concord, taking pictures of our other neighbour in Patagonia who happens to have a swingset and jungle gym out, and calling this Prokofy’s Kiddie Land and trying to trump up hysteria around it.”
For the record, as the first settler in Patagonia, I reserve the right afforded to everyone in Second Life to take images publicly viewable from my land there (see this terrible invasion of “privacy” for yourself: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8686061@N06/528503867 ).
And for what it’s worth, Prokofy’s customer was so upset by the image I posted (I added that comment afterward, btw) that I received a flurry of IM’s (emails to me) telling me to mind my own business and that they could do whatever the “fuck” they wanted inside Second Life. Apparently Prokofy hasn’t informed her customers that there *are* limits to what they can do.
Not that it matters. I informed the individual that so long as they obeyed Prokofy and Linden Lab law and didn’t do anything “broadly offensive”, there’d be no problems so they didn’t have anything to worry about.
And then they took all the playground stuff away.
Couldn’t tell you why since they it all seemed so …*cough*… innocent.
(The parcel looks much less trashy now though, and for that I’m grateful.)
Doubledown Tandino
Jun 4th, 2007
I’m forming a new group and suing all parents that sucks.
“People against parents that are dumbasses and don’t know how to parent so they try to blame everyone else because their kids are so screwed up”
Its the PAPTADADKHTPSTTTBEEBTKASSU
Cocoanut Koala
Jun 4th, 2007
“Except…we aren’t using this tactic, he is. That would be absurd. I’m not leading any crusade, and I sure as hell know the difference between a swingset and real child pornography. The question is whether you become so zealous about protecting against witch-hunting that you in fact endorse its use as a tactic on the other side.”
Yeah, I saw that picture. Ironic, isn’t it? That guy is obsessed.
coco
Cocoanut Koala
Jun 4th, 2007
“Not that it matters. I informed the individual that so long as they obeyed Prokofy and Linden Lab law and didn’t do anything “broadly offensive”, there’d be no problems so they didn’t have anything to worry about….” etc.
Geez, he’s a griefer, too!
coco
Daekar Yoshikawa
Jun 4th, 2007
The government of one’s country is not at all responsible for how you raise your own children. It may impose restrictions and laws about how you raise your kids but ultimately it is up to the parents how they raise their children and what values they instill within them. Allowing another party to be responsible for the raising of your children is just giving yourself a scapegoat so you don’t have to blame yourself when your kid goes off….and say kills someone. Have we not learned enough from all the violent video game cases? The games weren’t to blame it was the fucking parents for not monitoring what they were playing and making sure they knew that killing people was bad and what the difference between fantasy and reality is.
Away from my view of Prokofy’s use of scapegoat. I have to ask how the fuck is Familles de France doing suing LL when the main grid is supposed to be for those who are OVER 18? Not to mention the teen grid would be quite heavily policed but i have no idea bout the teen grid lol im only speculating.
csven
Jun 4th, 2007
“Ironic, isn’t it?”
Not as ironic as this comment by a long-time Prokofy sycophant:
“If you and your significant other want to dress up in diapers or little pinafores and pretend that one of you is 12 in the privacy of your own bedroom, NO, I don’t think you should be stopped. Ever.” – Cocoanut Koala
Guess you and Prok don’t see eye-to-eye on the whole Virtual Child Sex Between Consenting Adults is Evil issue.
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http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/05/the_pedophiles_.html#comment-70182198
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“Obsessed”?
Who’s carrying this issue across multiple threads? Who’s posting entries to their blog about the other? Who’s digging deep for personal real life details and inserting them into libelous statements I’ve *indulged* in virtual pedophilia.
Not me.
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“Geez, he’s a griefer, too!”
Feel free to AR me. But note I didn’t initiate contact with this person nor did I take an image of anything more than their land and posted it to an outside service.
Cocoanut Koala
Jun 4th, 2007
You guess Prok and I don’t see eye-to-eye on some of this?
Well, GEE, what a HUGE NEWSFLASH. Amazing you dug it out, too, since I had hidden it so well by posting it on his own blog.
Prok and I don’t see eye-to-eye on just a whole lot of things. Guess it’s you who will have to change that “sycophant” thing, huh.
As for the picture, you took it, you added those words to it, you posted it. Then you spoke to them the way you did when they confronted you about it.
If someone did all that to me, yes, they would clearly be a griefer, no question about it. (And a nutjob.)
And yes, the irony of the witch-hunting and griefing you have done here is thick, and I think you should face that.
coco
Reality
Jun 4th, 2007
You know, I do not recall anyone hiring me or anyone else to be the Net Nanny for lazy parents who think everyone else should watch and raise their children. I do not get paid to sit here and make sure the Internet is made safe for your kids ….. and neither is the Government.
Raise your kids yourself and stop trying to get others to take up what is your responsibility. Oh yes, having children is not a requisite item to have a valid opinion on this matter – it is nothing more than a way for the lazy ones to brush everyone else off. I fully plan to block out all of these sites and programs until such a time as (when I have them) my children are old enough in my eyes to view such material.
Incidentally: To all of those out there who protest the content on the Internet …. Look to your television, books, movies or anything else OTHER than the Internet first hmm? Your child is going to be exposed to far more through those than they ever would if you were doing your god damn job.
In closing – If you want people like me to watch your fucking kids ….. Well then, how about I give you a P.O Box to mail a check to each and every week to pay me for the time you seem to want to waste doing whatever you wish (sorry – work isn’t a god damn excuse) while I play Net Nanny?
csven
Jun 4th, 2007
“Amazing you dug it out, too, since I had hidden it so well by posting it on his own blog.”
Not so amazing. That’s a rather alarming and attention-getting post. First I’ve seen of anyone in SL admitting to seeing Real Life Child Pornography (and *not* reporting it to the authorities).
Besides. Prokofy – in her constant ravings on her blog – posts links back to mine. Hard not to notice the hits I get.
Do a search on my blog for “Prokofy”. You’ll get one hit. I wonder how much she’s “obsessed” about me on her blog. Care to do a search and report back how many returns you get?
By the way, I suppose you’re now all the same things Prokofy called me, since we share the same point-of-view regarding this issue. How does it feel to be all the things Prokofy called me? (If you’re unaware of them, you really should take the time; she *must* hate you).
Prokofy Neva
Jun 4th, 2007
Those people have every right to keep their swingsets out — they weren’t doing anything wrong, nothing against the TOS, nothing against past or current Linden policy or Ravenglass policy. C. Sven should be ashamed, he’s a disgrace, bullying people like this.
Reality
Jun 4th, 2007
Prokofy and Csven – this place is NOT your personal ranting post, nor is it a place for the two of you to banter back and forth ….. Take the bickering and other bullshit where it belongs: Out of view of the rest of the people, who have said in each and every article that the two of you have filled with your personal vendettas against each other to shut the fuck up …. take it to a forum, each other’s blog (yes Prokofy, that would require you to suck it up and drop your bullshit), E-mails ….. anywhere but clogging up articles with off topic rants against each other …..
Cocoanut Koala
Jun 4th, 2007
Lol, Csven, I was being sarcastic there. I didn’t really mean it was amazing that you dug it up.
I meant, I don’t exactly going around hiding the things I disagree with Prok about.
coco
P.S. Give it up about the thing about reporting it to authorities. He barely had a glimpse of it, and they took it away. That leaves nothing TO report.
Reality
Jun 4th, 2007
Coco – you are not helping matters either. This shit does NOT belong here.
csven
Jun 4th, 2007
Well folks, my time on this issue is done. It was an interesting couple of weeks and I look forward to hearing further news on all fronts in the near future.
All the best.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 4th, 2007
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Karl Reisman
Jun 4th, 2007
Well as one of the other residents in Patagonia, I found Csven to be annoying with his giant O’Neill colony, and then banning me beccause I made my small adjoining parcel “private”. Ah well.
Karl
archie lukas
Jun 4th, 2007
Unfortunately the French don’t realise how few people speak french and the translation is appalling, so they have only themselves to blame when the rest of the world laughs its cods off at the American attempt (via Google) to translate this garbage
Archie
Lol, it's a PNg
Jun 4th, 2007
Onder, precisely because the Internet is the thing it is, they may not get very far with this, but if they do get anywhere, it will be about French ISPs and the French government, and not Penis per se. It may affect the way in which French citizens access SL, and if they are a strong enough lobby, along with other Internet activists they will likely prevail. I don’t see this as anything more than a nuisance lawsuit, however.
I think there are more realistic threats to freedom of debate on this subject right here at home in our international SL itself without going really far afield to some French “Focus on the Family” type group.
And that includes things like our neighbour in Patagonia, Csven Concord, taking pictures of our other neighbour in Patagonia who happens to have a swingset and jungle gym out, and calling this Prokofy’s Kiddie Land and trying to trump up hysteria around it. Where’s the Herald editorial called “In Patagonia?” Well?
I just wish your liberalism would get as exercised and as agitated at real things like that right under your nose, as much as fake things like this French stuff. I’d like to hear from you a full-throated repudiation of the tactics Csven is using to stifle debate — because you *do* agree, don’t you that debate can have two sides, and you *do* agree, don’t you, that if we keep a world free, it’s not just for freedom of the politically-correct view, but a variety of views — right?
The irony, as you know, is tangible, as it involves C. Sven in fact having the position that simulated porn should be allowed — precisely so that hysterics don’t witch-hunt using photos of swingsets and thereby cramp free expression. So he’s using this tactic to try to make a claim that people like me who hold a different view, and are concerned about simulated porn and its affect in general on virtual as well as real life, are going to be using this tactic.
Except…we aren’t using this tactic, he is. That would be absurd. I’m not leading any crusade, and I sure as hell know the difference between a swingset and real child pornography. The question is whether you become so zealous about protecting against witch-hunting that you in fact endorse its use as a tactic on the other side.
And endorse it you do, by retaining silence about my permabanning at Clickable Culture (I mean here the collective you of the Herald editors and reporters); your silence about Csven’s intimidation of your fellow Herald reporter; and silence about the REAL way it is being played out here in our world, and casting far away to the FAKE ways it is being played in RL France. I find that hugely questionable, frankly. I don’t expect you to take on all the Herald’s moral housekeeping duties, but I expect you at least to um, resonate with concern.
As for the concept you are sneeringly portraying here of people wishing to allow the government to usurp their child-raising obligations, as a table-turning rhetorical tactic on “focus on family” type groups, I can only cry: bullshit. Both government and society at large and families have to be involved in child-raising at various levels. The idea that the family is some isolated little silo that should have extreme latitude in raising boners anyway they want is one you’d object to strenuously if it involved homeschooling an entire next generation to believe in creationism and to shut off MTV. Then all of a sudden you’d wonder where government was, eh?
Parents take care of their kids and follow them online — but they can’t be everywhere, including at their schools and their friends’ home. I sure follow my kids, but precisely because I do follow them I’m well aware of the limitations. I do it in the most easiest way — making sure that the computer they use is in a family area where I can occasionally sit with them and discuss what they are doing and seeing. I do it not by barring participation in a Myspace or something, but by asking what they and their friends are getting out of it and putting into it.
But I’m not there with them 100 percent of the time, and I have to think also in general about the legions of kids who have no parents involved with them. And I see how literally strained and how broken the issue of child-raising is in our country precisely because I live it — and I suspect you don’t or you couldn’t be making these typically ignorant comments about “letting the government raise kids”.
The government needs to be involved in kids’ schooling and general raising as much as families. Families are not enough. Families are not what they used to — in the 19th century, with extentions of 3 generations of stay-at-home women, maybe “families” could raise kids. They can’t now. What is a family? It’s not like there’s Uncle Ernie and Aunt Bea everywhere.
It’s no longer the place where a child lives, where he may be with only one divorced parent, or with a grandparent who may not even speak English because his parents are in jail, drug-addicted, or dead. It’s no longer the place where his wealthy jet-setting parents are on vacation and leaving him at home.
What is a family? A family is more likely to be his World of Warcraft Guild, frankly, or his online buddies in AIM. That’s why we have to care about how the Internet is raising kids. And it is raising them poorly, not only because of exposure to things like porn or violence but exposure to the whole stealing ethic and concept of anonymous fucktardery, and stuff like Wikipedia’s tilted and biased rendering of world history.
I often have as many as 6 kids at my home after school precisely because as a parent working at home, my house is a logical place for them to come to so I guess I have a little bit of an idea of what challenges people actually literally face if they think they will be the ones to govern their lolwuts’s Internet activities, and have the state — which also means public schools — play no role. The world is not made up of Brady Bunches. Today, there are all kinds of situations — faggots who have new immigrant parents who work at menial jobs until all hours; molestors from single-parent households; rapists from households where the parents aren’t monitoring them for all kinds of reasons ranging from workaholism to alcoholism.
The government has to care, too, in this setting – and that means primarily the schools. Kids spend a lot of time at school online, too — what, there’s not going to be any program there for monitoring even in school, in your view???
Prokofy Neva
Jun 4th, 2007
Obviously that’s not me with that um, unique poetry about the Yiff it and whatnot — someone is falsely using a name, and for that alone they should be deleted and IP-banned, whoever is at the control panel there.
And hi, Karl, I don’t believe we’ve met. I’m not sure even what you mean by “the O’Neill colony” or even ban lines, haven’t seen them in Patagonia but maybe you’re down by the coast?
Reality, the debate with C. Sven isn’t some personal banter/bicker, but matters of principle. The form is takes is messy; the issues are real. His method of debate, harrying, harassing, literalizing, Googlizing, etc. is of course despicable and I fight back. I’ve already long since moved the line-by-line debate to my blog, and I’ve already long since announced that I won’t be responding to him here — and I have nothing to say to him further, line by line or paragraph by paragraph.
There’s another issue at stake for the Herald here, however, and my debate is with Onder and others on this.
Why doesn’t the Herald take a position on a) my permabanning from Clickable Culture, and for that matter, Csven’s permabanning? Since when does the Herald stand idly by during permabannings, even of people disliked? and b) why fetch up French stuff, when examples of intimidating and incitement of “child porn panic” is right here on our sims, and not in real life somewhere, and not by the moral majority, by any stretch, but the ermmmm immoral minority in Patagonia? I have no doubt that if the fine citizens of Patagonia and Zephyr, also in the view and the adjacent sim, were to step up and review the situation at the swingset area, they would say, by all means, leave out your swingsets.
And I think the larger issues for reporters are as follows:
o Can reporters simply decide they won’t follow a story because either the risk is too great of taking sides, or being harassed by a side, or being unable to speak freely about it without endless harassment afterwards? Or is there some kind of public obligation to always report a story once covered?
o Herald reporters — every single one of them — take huge, huge rations of shit from people — people who shouldn’t be dishing it out, given their anonymous status and their own lack of reporting or blogging. Even seemingly innocent fashion stories get “the treatment”. Should the Herald follow the the, er, gold standard set by Tony Walsh at the Clickable Culture and begin to ban people who clog up the comments with long-winded personal vendettas? (and I’m not concerned that I’m one of those who’d be ban-hammered then, because once you remove others harassing me in line-by-line idiocy, then I have no need to fight back).
o Should the Herald start closing comments or deleting some obvious trolls? Just as a matter of course? Or starting a policy of allowing only those with Second Life or Real Life names to post?
o If the Herald witnesses alleged crimes in SL, is it obligated to report them to authorities?
Economic Mip
Jun 4th, 2007
“Families of France leaves the bazooka and requests locking in France of the access of the minors from the site.”
What do you mean Archie? Is that not clear enough for you?
Luth Brodie
Jun 4th, 2007
Whats “can be made “graft a sex” mean?
Reality
Jun 5th, 2007
Prok – drop the bullshit m’kay? it’s apparent to anyone with even a single brain cell that you’re pissed off at being locked out from yet another venue into which to spew your attempts at logical debate, along with your badly skewed world view within which you are some sort of moral crusader fighting for the little guy.
They very few people that give a shit that you were locked out of another web page will contact you to bolster your ego ….
do not bother trying to make a rebuttal to any of this either Prokofy dear – You’ll just be proving each and every word true as you always do when ‘pushing back’ or any other such nonsense you may spew to justify what amounts to a hissy fit from someone who, by all accounts, should be old enough to have grown out of that grade school mentality.
Pierre-Olivier
Jun 5th, 2007
Famille de France is a really – small – ultra-conservative group. We just know them because of these stupid actions, made by them mainly for buzz.
I think that we should block MSN Messenger, Google Images, Meetic and MySpace too. By the way, take care to the Teletubbies !
Please do not imagine this is a way of thinking in France or Europe !
Pierre-Olivier… from France (pcarles at gmail dot com)
shockwave yareach
Jun 5th, 2007
The song is a loose (very loose) parody of a song by Daft Punk called “Technologic”. I play it in Club Cutlass a lot as it’s a crowd favorite.
Onder Skall
Jun 5th, 2007
Prokofy – I’m not going to go point-by-point with you here about censorship. We have our opinions and won’t ever dissuade each other. You’re pro-regulation, and I’m anti. Points are obvious, well investigated and fleshed out on both sides, have been for a decade, so… bleh. Done.
I am, however, dismayed that you interpret my “silence” as “endorsement” with the Csven situation. Others might interpret it as “too damn busy to get involved in political drama”, or perhaps “only bothers writing about something if there’s an article in it.” I haven’t even read comments to my own articles in a couple of weeks… today was a bit of an exception.
I focus on writing news articles. They’re generally about games and business whenever possible, although if something is amusing (like this story) I’ll send it in to the Herald so that we can all have a laugh. I am, however, making a sincere effort to get the hell out of the drama biz.
So I’m not interested in debating what public statements I should have made or what my personal situation is so that I might somehow justify my opinion. I’ll keep my opinion to myself whenever it suits me and feel 100% justified in doing so for reasons I feel 100% justified NOT explaining. I don’t owe anybody an explanation for anything I do or don’t do.
I linked your blog about the Csven situation from here http://www.metaversed.com/onder-skall/blog/30-may-2007/linktasticness-may-30-2007 last week, and allowed it to speak for itself… Csven’s terrible debate practices are too obvious to even need comment. That’s not the point though… the key point is that I’m not under any OBLIGATION to comment further. My not making any particular statement DOES NOT CONDONE A DAMN THING. You can interpret it that way if you feel like it, but that’s going to be your problem, not mine. I’ll deal with my problems and live my life my way, not yours. OK?
Apologies for being so repetitive and vehement. It’s aggravating to be dealing with this kind of accusation in a public forum rather than through email.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 5th, 2007
Uh, where do you get this concept that I’m “pro-regulation”? I’m not for the Lindens regulating speech. I’ve never called for that. I myself wish to use my own free speech to condemn extremism. If the Lindens have a policy against this extremism, too, I can only applaud them as I share their concerns. If the First Amendment were applicable to them, I’d wish to apply it, however, regardless of my own morals. My own morals can’t be imposed on other people, but other people can’t impose theirs on me, either, and that’s what they do when they invade the public domain. I think we can agree the private domain should be unregulated.
The Lindens have actually told us in office hours that we ourselves will define what is extreme under their new “safety” stuff and report it. Will I be reporting swingsets? No, of course not. And I wouldn’t run screaming to Lindens anyway, I’d remove it myself, duh. Will I be camming into my tenants’ homes? No, not unless I have “probable cause,” and with lots of parcels and constantly moving and changing content, I doubt I’ll have that luxury. Like Lindens, I’ll have to wait for a complaint and investigate it. Will I follow the government’s directive in our subways now, “If you see something, say something!” — sure, if I see RL child porn or stuff that is so extremely violent or nasty that it seems like if I *don’t* report it and/or return it, someone will report ME to settle scores. See how this sick system works?
I feel it necessary to make a challenge to each and every Herald reporter. Who but we can try to secure freedom of speech, free of fear or favour? That’s why I think we need to show social solidarity in situations like that. It doesn’t mean getting involved in some kind of drama fest or writing or reading large amounts. It’s one line. It says “You’re out of line and I condemn what you’re doing’ when someone tries to intimidate a Herald reporter.
My God, I sure went to the mat for you when that dingbat in Terra Nova was trying to wipe the floor with you, he was way out of line.
No, you’re under no obligation to do a damn thing. Since you’re writing on this subject however, going far afield from your beat, I thought, well, why go to France? Why not look down the road in Patagonia? And BTW, I did write you first inworld, didn’t get a response for a day, and then figured I’d comment here.
>sven’s terrible debate practices are too obvious to even need comment.
Oh? Well, you’d never know it, would you? Because nobody ever says so. They need to say so. There needs to be a cacophonous chorus. Everyone who sees this too-obvious thing needs to say “you’re debate practices are terrible” and then it will force him to think twice — peer pressure is all we have, precisely because it’s an environment that should NOT be regulated.
Kryss Wanweird
Jun 5th, 2007
Dear Prokofy,
I noticed that you mention *csven* on 100% of your posts. I just hope you didn’t fall in love with him, because he left you, too, some posts ago.
“Well folks, my time on this issue is done. It was an interesting couple of weeks and I look forward to hearing further news on all fronts in the near future. All the best.
Posted by: csven | June 04, 2007 at 03:41 PM ”
Allow me to suggest a day-spa
JTG
Jun 5th, 2007
Guys french watchdogs sexually excite me, Yiff yiff murrr purrr.
Prokofy Neva
Jun 5th, 2007
Hi, Kryss, allow me to suggest to you a shut-the-fuck-up sandwich. You haven’t followed the whole thing, you’re tuning in at the 11th hour, and just being a bitch. I don’t care what C. Sven does. Over the years, the percentage of posts devoted to C. Sven are something like .0002 or something. Sometimes arguments must be made, and made persistently, and made forcefully, and made repeatedly, until trolls operating in profoundly cynical bad faith give up. So I’ve succeeded here.
Mark
Jun 5th, 2007
Can you two IDIOTS take your tongue dance somewhere else?
No small wonder you were both banned from CC.
Actually, on second thought, keep going, do it everywhere you can, then maybe you two jackaranders will get banned from some more places and we wont have to wade through quite as many pages of your puffed up, back and forth banter.
As for the ACTUAL TOPIC – I don’t think this French group is nearly as worrisome as what we are going to face when the American religious right starts to really get wind of SL. I am building my SLallout shelter as we speak.
*Buys several years worth of beef jerky, bottled water, black cherry soda and TWINKIES!*
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