Age Verify or AgeLock?
by Jessica Holyoke on 08/12/07 at 8:57 am
by Jessica Holyoke
Agelock – another path to implausible deniability
As Age Verification continues to throw residents for a loop; some cannot verify, some can verify using false information, parcels marked as mature content are not allowing age verified people in, more and more questions are raised as a competing service, AgeLock, is being offered.
AgeLock is a database linked to a scanner placed on mature land. It provides a drop down window that asks if you are over 18 and asks for your birth date to enter in a database. Your birthdate and avatar name are linked and would allow you to access adult content anywhere AgeLock is used. Conceptually, its just like the adult internet sites that ask if you are 18 or over before allowing you to view the content inside.
In looking for cases of where adults were charged for minors viewing their adult internet content, I found this http://www.birthdateverifier.com/ which is offered by a law firm dedicated to the Adult Internet industry. It operates much like to AgeLock, with some small differences. While the firm’s website, www.firstamendment.com, does mention the very real possibility of invoking "think of the children" when federal prosecutors go after obscene materials, no case is cited where a website owner is charged for a minor viewing their material.
Some residents complain about the possibility of data mining by the AgeLock owners. While avatar name and birthdate alone may not be marketable data points, avatar name and birthdate combined with any information trail you leave on the internet or on Second Life might lead to marketable information. The AgeLock website does have a privacy policy that states your information will not be mined.
Another downside to AgeLock is that most of the adult internet sites also work with Net Nanny, Cyber Patrol or other filtering software. In the United States, Ashcroft v. ACLU, 542 U.S. 656 (2004) the Supreme Court overturned the requirement that commercial vendors of harmful to minor material, which is a lower standard than obscene, need to age verify the recipient prior to viewing. Filters were the main reason for that decision. While a resident has to chose to click Mature Content in order to Search for it, a child capable of being on SL is capable enough of clicking the box. Additionally, even if the Mature Content was not clicked to search, it does not prevent arriving on a Mature parcel or accepting a Mature Content land mark.
Linden Labs, unless they merge the Teen and Main Grids, would never have an active filter for the Main Grid. With the client code being open sourced, perhaps a PG only client that would prevent mature content from being checked and that would prevent an avatar from going onto or scanning into mature parcels would be a beneficial program for the mature content providers in SL.
There are still many questions about Age Verification and adult content flagging. If an adult content creator was flagging his land adult and a minor came on after falsifying his information or using her parent’s account, how would Linden Labs or Integrity/Aristotle help them in a legal sense? There’s been no representations made regarding assistance to a adult content provider that falls into trouble. And wouldn’t Aristotle/Integrity want everyone to Age Verify, not just porn consumers, both from an insurance standpoint, if that’s what they are providing, and from a data collection standpoint? AgeLock is making no such claims of protection or help beyond what is being offered, but they are also not being as intrusive and demanding as Aristotle/Integrity
European
Dec 8th, 2007
Will stick to AgeLock.
Age Verification by Aristotle is a discriminatory system that will lead to adult areas being available only to American Second Lifers and to Griefers that have used falsified information.
This will lead to a new form of Apartheid system where instead of signs “Whites Only” you’ll now have signs “Yanks Only”.
What will be the next step, Linden Labs? Will you force European Second Lifers to wear a badge on their chest to identify themselves as untermensch?
Buckaroo Mu
Dec 8th, 2007
Wow, Godwin’s Law on the very first comment. Along with the assertion that all griefers are underage, or vice versa, I’m still not sure.
Folks, I have one very important thing to say before I move along – this IDV is in BETA. It may be “discriminatory” to Europeans now, because it’s not working for you – but it’s not working because it’s BETA. Surely you know enough about software to know what BETA means?
As far as “AgeLock” goes – yeah, pressing a button, that’s really deserving of the name “lock”. Yes, the USSC has overturned the portion of the god-awful COPA law that said “I agree I am over 18″ is not enough. However, as far as I know, IDV was never about complying with law – it was about inter-resident trust relationships. Meh. It doesn’t bother me one way or the other. I verified, just to get it out of the way. I have ID protection services watching my records already – if you don’t these days, you’re just tempting fate.
DarthBlueAfro
Dec 8th, 2007
when i WAS under the consented age whenever i wanted to go to a adult site it would ask if you where over 18 and gave me a birth date, i would lie about it and say i was around 35 years old. i dont know how they can catch you to begin with. but sense i believe allot of people do not have any form of identifying them selfs on SL. this is a much better system then the age verification system LL has now. not to mention that i think it might just be a way for LL to get more $ into there pockets. i think the entire collective ca say that every time they have asked or needed assistance form a lindin it went unanswered or was shoved off.
Prokofy Neva
Dec 8th, 2007
It’s Linden Lab *singular*, Jessica, if you’re going to role-play journalist, at least get that piece of it right.
Agelock is worse than Integrity, because it is not run by a publicly-visible and accountable business that media has successfully challenged and obtained information about, and subject to judicial action in a transparent manner, instead it is a virtual business run by anonymous avatars. While they may claim that they don’t retain or mine or sell the data, we can’t trust them as not only are they anonymous, they are belligerent about any challenge, and are contrarian and resentful as you can see from their constant blogging.
Their customers using their system may be loyal but they gain no protection whatsoever. As it is not LL’s officially-used system, and not a publicly-recognized verification system, it has no validity. It’s just some home-made resident thing that has no authenticity when it comes to RL law-enforcement. I’m amazed that people can’t grasp that simple fact: this isn’t about really keeping out kids — that’s impossible, though you should try. It’s not even about 100 percent verification of adults, which won’t be possible given the potential for fraud. But it’s about *limiting liability for litigation*. That’s it, pure and simple. That’s what it is for Linden Lab singular, and that’s what it is for you — you make the best effort you can with the system chosen, and if you fail, at least you have covered yourself by trying. But using an amateur system run by anonymous residents not in combination with LL’s system, you leave yourself exposed.
Anonymous
Dec 9th, 2007
Aristotle is now useless. TOTALLY useless. 7 accounts have been verified with personal info that was acquired with one search of google. If underage can get past the system then it is useless. Once corrupted the only way to fix it is to start all over again after they remove the dead and those who made public their ID or driver’s license.
What is most scary is that I managed to verify one avatar with the driver’s license of Mohamad Atta (One of the suspected hijackers of 9/11) provided by…. The US Department of Homeland Security, some security, they didn’t even blank out the numbers. So a “known” terrorist who is supposedly dead made it through the verification process. Oh joy, brains at work.
Frank Sinatra, Anna Nicole Smith and many others will get you past the gates of verification. Linden Lab only get told that this avatar has been verified by a Y or N from Aristotle. They have no way of back tracking or checking that Frank or Elvis are in SL and have come back from the dead. No way of checking at all. Even when I told them that I had managed to get past it they have no way of dealing with this.
Aristotle/LindenLab verified residents are no more trustworthy than some stranger you meet on the street. Still don’t know who they are, if they are of age or if they were the person that they verified under.
Want to try Robin Linden’s disaster then… use someone else’s ID not your own. If you use your own then someone else may be able to get it and use your ID to verify themselves or use it to buy a house, a new computer, get a credit card or library card. Google is the provider of the image search and I mentioned in this piece what two words to search for.
Please remember that the number one rule for the internet as put forward by the US States Attorney Generals, “Do not give out personal information!!” They stated this in a meeting where John Aristotle Philips, CEO of Aristotle, was a speaker. Ironic.
So use Aristotle and hand them your ID and you have no assurance. Use AgeLock and worst thing that can happen is that I send your avatar birthday greetings. AgeLock does not have your Real Name, Address, ID# and Date of birth. We however strive to warn the users (3 Times) that the area is adult. The current Aristotle/Linden Lab system has hardly no such warnings. Linden Lab seems to feel that their verification of Identity is enough to keep out the kids. Well if any kid who can search google can find the information with just two words then what use is it?
Buckaroo Mu;
“However, as far as I know, IDV was never about complying with law – it was about inter-resident trust relationships. Meh. It doesn’t bother me one way or the other. I verified, just to get it out of the way. I have ID protection services watching my records already – if you don’t these days, you’re just tempting fate.”
What trust is there in a system that allows people to verify as a terrorist, movie star or some other person? System is already corrupted and there is no way to fix it with out requiring everyone to verify again and doing better job of removing the dead and others who were dumb enough to had out their identity?
I would love to know what company can offer protection against identity theft. How do they know that you really are the real you and not someone who is out to make your life hell by being you.
Prokofy;
You have developed over time a grudge for allana after she tried to help you one time. So no matter how simple and safe AgeLock is you are going to state that it is problematic just to try and hurt her. PLEASE think and forget that allana is involved. We are asking people to be honorable. We warn them 3 times. We explain what data is collected, how and where it is stored. Your SL name and date of birth will not endanger you. We don’t have your Real Name. We don’t have your EMail. We don’t have your address. We don’t have your telephone number. We don’t have potentential dangerous ID numbers. Isn’t that simpler, safer and smarter?
You defend a company that is in the business of selling personal data and really are amateur when it comes to age verification. What happens if Aristotle gets hacked or just decide to turf their printed records into the trash as so many companies do? Trust me they will not cover your costs. They store everything you use to verify for 2 years in their vault. Their record with BudTV.com is appaling. Anyone can still get into that system with made up info. Yet they still claim that it is working and is a shining example of their service.
As far as protection, Aristotle only insure Linden Lab in case of litigation due to minors verifying, not the residents, content creators or the land owners. They also can only offer this for US courts. Wonder how long it will be before some enterprsing person has their child verify and sues.
As to me being anonymous. I actually use my real name here and in SL. But your vendetta is at allana, my partner in this. She is an honest, kind and helpful person and as I wants to stop people from doing something we feel is dangerous.
We have not taken one linden for the AgeLock system yet. We would be the happiest SL residents if we could delete the Databases knowing that AgeVerification was in the hands of someone who was trustworthy, open, honest and could do it. I personally feel there is no system that can work. SecondLife does not need a system that can allow a kid to get through with information that is freely available to all yet takes resident’s personal information. So people are verified. It now means nothing other than they gave Aristotle something that they can make money from selling.
Also, please note that Linden Lab’s system only goes up to 100 meters. It does not cover sky boxes.
European
Dec 9th, 2007
Prokofy, maybe if your head wasn’t stuck so far up your own arse, you could say something meaningful sometime.
We all know you’ve got a personal grudge against the makers of AgeLock. Idiot.
Nicholaz Beresford
Dec 9th, 2007
))So a “known” terrorist who is supposedly dead made it through the verification process. Oh joy, brains at work.((
Well, it’s consistent with the system … being over eighteen *and* dead steers the Lindens clear of trouble … sure no fuzz in the “underage accessing porn” department coming from him
Prokofy Neva
Dec 10th, 2007
Um, I don’t know Allana, and I have no personal grudge, and I have no idea what this reference is to this “one time she tried to help me” blah blah. Sounds fake. I don’t like what Allana thinks, does, represents in SL, so I criticize it vigorously and argue against it, and you’ll just have to accept that.
There’s always an effort on the Herald to try to round up the critics into the group-think and explain away their critique by mental illness or agendas or “vitriol” — but such commenters usually remain completely oblivious to the messages of same sent out originally by these parties in question lol.
I think Agelock is misleading, and untrustworthy. It will not protect anyone from liability with the Lindens, or with anyone else.
I think Robin Linden’s last post is excellent: it explains in very clear detail that LL and Integrity are not keeping this data and dumping it. Hey, if you all can trust Cristiano Diaz when he says he dumps your email that he gets from Snapzilla postcards coming in from SL, you can trust the Lindens, eh? (I’ll bet the Lindens never dropped that bit, although I raised in numerous times as a privacy issue — your email given on sign-up goes to Cristiano)
And if you CANNOT trust the Lindens then…how can you trust Allana? She’s got even more on you, as she has the time to manually and automatically track what you do, say, connect to, claim, etc. on her property — and the Lindens don’t have time for that.
What about Daniel Linden saying this stuff is in a “vault”? Well, maybe it is, but if they say they are dumping it, or not accessing it (if that is the more accurate statement and if they haven’t dumped the vault idea, which we don’t know), then…why not take them at their word?
I have yet to see a single divorce lawyer tap into Second Life to make his case — or any government use of SL beyond these handful of child porn allegations that the Lindens cooperated with — because they must. They also cooperated with giving out names if they have a legal subpoena. You would think that all these whiners in SL imagine they will all be facing actual subpoenas. Huh?
I’d have to laugh at Stroker Serpentine, who got the defendants’ names out of Linden with his lawsuit, then turning around and not liking anything about age verification…
Once again, I don’t know how many times it has to be repeated, age verification is not about keeping out kids. Everyone knows it’s about *doing your best* to keep out kids by having a system in place, and what it’s MORE about is MAKING ADULTS ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY DO.
Allana is “kind and helpful” to her own little circle. She’s stubborn, aggressive, and mean to others outside her circle who challenge her, and always has a nasty comment to make on my blog.
Let’s go over it again:
We warn them 3 times. We explain what data is collected, how and where it is stored. Your SL name and date of birth will not endanger you.
All markers of any kind in SL, even if ostensibly not tied to a RL name, when put in a context, when put together with other clues can and are used to stalk people. All such material collected can and does endanger privacy.
>We don’t have your Real Name. We don’t have your EMail. We don’t have your address. We don’t have your telephone number. We don’t have potentential dangerous ID numbers. Isn’t that simpler, safer and smarter?
I got all that the first time it was ranted, and even the 10th. And that doesn’t matter. Linden Lab doesn’t have my telephone number either. It has the same information my bank and credit card company have, and also *routinely ask for* when I call about an issue with them *the last 4 digits of my SS#*. I fail to see why this is the horror everyone imagines; it’s normal everyday life stuff.
Instead, in your scheme, I’m asked to put myself on a list owned and accounted for only by anonymous residents who like to control others in a BDSM site and enjoy humiliation of them as a routine sport. I’m asked to link my appearance at their site, let’s say theoretically, with my avatar name and age, making them a ready-made blackmail/porn access list.
I fail to see why I have to drop my conerns about Allana doing this, yet have to retain them for Integrity. That’s absurd. I’d much rather deal with two known and experienced businesses, LL and Integrity, than deal with amateur avatars with scores to settle.
Ari
Dec 10th, 2007
What a bunch of knee-jerk reaction BS…
AgeLock has problems: I’ve tried it. n00bs come in who are complete idiots and ‘accidentally’ click the wrong button somewhere – BOOM! Now they are kicked and banned from any and all parcels that use agelock. How to fix this? There is no recourse or ‘retry’.
Then again, why use it? A minor masquerading as an adult will be very careful to enter appropriate information to ‘pass’ the test. But the idiot adults who don’t are now banned?
(The same idiots that buy a bed with a sex-engine in it, rezz it and then commence to UNPACK the scripts into their inventory… boneheads)
Might as well not kick or ban anyone. A simple agreement works. So as I see it, agelock is really a problem – it won’t prevent the minors from coming in (I know, the idea is I’m protected because I made a good-faith effort… pffft) – and the idiots who are potential customers get kicked and PO’d and never return – and spread the word how my store sucks.
Hmmm… difficult decision for me here: do I use it… or NOT.
Everything in the article is correct as far as I’m concerned with regard to mining and all that. Sure – it’s just an SL name and birth date, but there are some of us who don’t really keep our RL private from friends. And if that slips out… heh, well. Whatever.
maybe LL’s version isn’t much better. But at least it’s canon as far as LL is concerned.
Go ahead and verify. My parcel is NOT flagged for now. Not worried about the griefers so much anymore because the “unknown newbie kicker” does wonders.
So… enough of all the knee jerk paranoia for goodness sakes.
It’s almost as bad as when Robin Linden announced voice was coming LOL
Allana Dion
Dec 10th, 2007
>”AgeLock has problems: I’ve tried it. n00bs come in who are complete idiots and ‘accidentally’ click the wrong button somewhere – BOOM! Now they are kicked and banned from any and all parcels that use agelock. How to fix this? There is no recourse or ‘retry’.”
I don’t know why you think this, but no sorry, it doesn’t work that way. If someone clicks the wrong buttons, as you say, they are ejected after 120 seconds if they don’t choose to teleport away on their own. They are NOT banned. It does NOT ban anyone, it can’t. So of course you can retry it. You just teleport back and do it again.
DaveOner
Dec 10th, 2007
“This will lead to a new form of Apartheid system where instead of signs “Whites Only” you’ll now have signs “Yanks Only”.
What will be the next step, Linden Labs? Will you force European Second Lifers to wear a badge on their chest to identify themselves as untermensch?”
Hey European, don’t trivialize the suffering of those who have ACTUALLY felt the effects of Apartheid and the Holocaust by trying to equate your video game experience with their plight.
If your life is THAT intertwined with SL then you should go outside and maybe see what’s actually going on in the world. Then you could have all those security cameras follow you around to make sure you don’t say certain things!
As far as the actual article…you guys know that Age Verification is still in beta, right?
Jamie David
Dec 10th, 2007
AgeLock is a sane alternative that I would prefer there was no need for at all. If there was a honest system that open and truly protected the kids as well as the residents I would have signed up in a heart beat. Sadly the Aristotle system is flawed and those who feel that Lindens are the brains of the world and Aristotle is an honorable company happily hand over their identities. Lemmings.
When we thought up AgeLock it was safety first. What was the least amount that we could deal with. SL name and DoB seem to be as safe as one can get. What is the worse case scenario. I sell all the data which gives some advertising spammer your Avatar Name and your Birthdate, if you didn’t lie. Now anyone can search the SL Database and suck all the users names. One can also suck all the SL birthdates. So the only added bit of information is the real life birthdate.
If I met a stranger on the street what would the danger be of giving them my birthdate. Little to none. They don’t have my real name or anything lest connecting me to an identity.
So this is what we went with. I do promise not to use the information, sell it or allow anyone to see it. Currently it is stored on two servers that are only accessable via ip addresses through a firewall to one port with SSL. The servers run no other servers and would be near to impossible to find and then get in. Nothing shows to link them so they are as safe as I can make them. I take security and privacy very seriously. I ran an ISP for many years and would be ashamed if I lost or allowed access to private material.
As the Secondlife portion is set up right now, if the user presses the wrong button they get sent to the border of the property and not home. They can enter again and fill in the questions again. When they are booted they are told as such.
No agelock can not verify that a user is the age that they claim. There is no system in the world that can do that. So we went in the opposite direction we warn the users that there is adult content. This makes the land owner/shop owner proactive. They are warning the user. They have done as best as they can do. They also understand that minors can get through the system and still to be on the look out.
Once again I express that if there was a system that was honest, open and capable of doing the job I would be first in line. Aristotle is not that company pure and simple. If any kid can get through with the use of information that is freely available on the internet, it is useless. Now I am told that one can fax in a copy of an utility bill. Even worse. (Photoshop will allow for creative editing.) The information given about their privicy policy is worse than bad. Vague and does not say a thing really.
Help me put Agelock and Aristotle out of the picture. Handing out any information that could endanger you is a bad thing no matter how small. DoB is the least of all the evils but yes I am sure some brain with enough time could figure out some way of using it to make money. Handing out the last 4 digits of your SSN and Real Name and address is far worse. That is enough to cause real trouble with out a lot of effort. For what? Kids can bypass the system and will. They can not gain access otherwise. This makes the, “lets protect the kids” line a non event.
Trust in the users? Not likely if one who wants to hide their identity or chooses not to hand it over can bypass the system just as easily as the kids. No trust in that. So is it worth handing over your identity when so many can and do avoid it corrupting the system?
This is all voluntary right now. So there is no need at all to flag land or verify. If you think that making your land verified only will keep out the griefers, I think you are wrong and if anything you will become the target of their wrath. And no there is no need to use AgeLock. It is here to provide an alternative. We are not charging and not holding any guns up to people. We just offer it so that users can feel that if it comes to it there is a safer alternative.
Once again Prokofy you go off on tangents to target one person, Allana. To try and make her into something that she is not. Yes I trust her far more than a company who claims that BudTv.com is keeping kids out and that their Integrity product is safe and secure. I have her real name, address, phone number and have been talking to her daily for over two years. Sadly we have never met in RL But the phone answers when I ring and the little silly things I send arrive at her address.
“Instead, in your scheme, I’m asked to put myself on a list owned and accounted for only by anonymous residents who like to control others in a BDSM site and enjoy humiliation of them as a routine sport. I’m asked to link my appearance at their site, let’s say theoretically, with my avatar name and age, making them a ready-made blackmail/porn access list.”
Just have to through the BDSM part in there to insult and belittle. We do not humiliate anyone but provide a happy safe sane place for people to gather and share experiences and thoughts. We do not allow those who try and do as you say. That is not what we are about.
AgeLock, just as LindenLab verification, is not about porn but about age. It does not mean that you have accessed a site that has porn. It means that a place you went to feels that you need to be above 18 to enter. Could be a cooking club or knitting club that just doesn’t want minors. It could be somone who has a house and is concerned that something could happen while they are away so feel that all who enter need to be above 18 to be safe after one of the linden Blogs where they stated that you could be banned and lose your land if something of an adult nature was happening on your land while you were gone.
“I fail to see why I have to drop my concerns about Allana doing this, yet have to retain them for Integrity. That’s absurd. I’d much rather deal with two known and experienced businesses, LL and Integrity, than deal with amateur avatars with scores to settle.”
Once again you attack allana rather than look at the issues. No need to take it personal. The company installing the service and maintaining it is Aristotle and Integrity is their product. Aristotle is not a reputable company. The US States Attorney Generals found the company lacking in morals and wrote a paper to say so.
Wired likewise found serious issues that have never been addressed. There is no policy of keeping data private. They will sell your profile to me with a creditcard. What you can buy is scary but that seems not to bother you. In that they are recording when you get carded at a bar, when you buy a gun, and who knows what other data they buy, sue counties, states for. They want to know everything that you do so that they can sell you. Didn’t you just verify for Adult system on the internet. Accessing porn probably.
Sorry to have to disagree but Robin Linden has done the residents of SecondLife a huge dis-service. There has yet to be a clear explanation of what the privacy policy is. What information is being kept where, by whom, and what it is being used for. Data is kept, not kept, vaulted for 2 years. Is that a reputable way to do business?
TOS that denies responsibility for data secuity of the company if it is sold, goes bankrupt. Aristotle likewise does not offer any privacy for your data.
You have your faith in the system to look after you. That if it is a US company, it has to follow the rules. I can find no evidence that they do. I hope that your clients do not feel as you do. Renting land from just a person who is anonymous maybe even verified with false information now that you know how. What trust can they have in you to not take their money and run? Your track record is all that you have.
I also note that you have an adult area on your land. That I would think would be enough to link you to pornographic material and that supposed blackmail/porn access list.
No system yet is perfect. So better to have no system at all. But if it is required then I prefer to give just my date of birth off by a few days than my identity and enough to track my movements and develop a better profile that can be sold.
Don’t trust anyone, Protect your identity at all costs. Fight for your right to privacy as given by the US constitution before your every move and kink is at the use of profilers and data miners.
Archie Lukas
Dec 11th, 2007
I tried it for the hell of it, cos I actually understand the system from a similar but much bigger system (the worlds biggest software project if that a clue)
The system failed to verify me.
UK based chap
Licence, no changes 22 years
same address
confirmed with police database 6 months ago (witness)
This is pretty disgusting actually -because the agents checking this are a British company.
So I’d like to apologise on behalf of Britain.
Its true -we can’t find our bloody arses with both hands.
Archie hangs head in shame, oh the bloody shame,
and readies his size 12 boots to embed in someone’s rear passage.