The Alphaville Herald

45 Responses to “Will LL Squeeze Combat Out Of Second Life?”

1. 

   hurt.the.sim
   

   Sep 1st, 2008
   

   From reading that bloody discharge from Socrates above, the thing that really stands out is how people are “messing with his sims, trying to hurt them.” I would guess that means that people must still be crashing them right and left like its going out of style… :p
2. 

   Bemused
   

   Sep 1st, 2008
   

   “This next exchange was probably the finest example of how Linden Labs thinks of itself in relation to its customers that I have ever seen.

   Socrates Linden: The ruling party is me and my ban button. No others. … ”

   It’s a shame you didn’t include the comments prior to Socrates’. Posting selective clips without the preceding context merely to bolster an agenda will eventually bite you in the arse as the full log of the Office Hours will be posted by someone. Also, it’s Linden Lab, not “Labs.”

   As to any claim by the failed International Libertarian, could we have more proof and less intransigent hyperpole?
3. 

   Deimos
   

   Sep 1st, 2008
   

   One of the better articles on the Herald.
4. 

   Proteus hand
   

   Sep 1st, 2008
   

   @ Bemused

   Kalel/Corsi/Eye,

   Shut up.

   for the Intlibber!
5. 

   Ivy Contepomi
   

   Sep 1st, 2008
   

   “Grey Nolder: And I will not be quiet when it comes to laying down individuals or groups; Militaries such as Sparta, commanded by the infamous “Bruno Ziskey” are notorious for the exploitation of administration powers between assaulting forces within the Second Life Military community.”

   And I died laughing.
6. 

   Caine Constantine
   

   Sep 1st, 2008
   

   Just to clarify, the entirety of the relevant conversation with Socrates about the subject of the article is posted. The snippet in the beginning is not the whole thing; the rest is posted later in the article.

   Thank you,
   Caine
7. 

   SL is down the drain - thanks to LL. Live with it.
   

   Sep 1st, 2008
   

   “And while you may be thinking “Everyone knows Second Life is not a democracy,” you’re not revealing anything new. Everyone does know this – but that does not mean you have to go out of your way to remind people”

   It does seem like something you do have to remind people of; every time LL changes something about their TOS or, as in this case, change the way they handle their data (afaik this is just that – adding more clear catogories for the AR system) – people start to shout bloody murder as if it is their RL government suddenly going straight into a dictatorship.

   If LL would suddenly announce that the SL economy isnt going to work, so the L$ will lose all it’s value and everything will be freebies from now on, I’m sure there will be more crying foul then ever. Without reason of course, we all know this ISNT a democracy, but that doesnt seem to hold them back.

   So yeah, sometimes LL screws it’s customers. But hey, this is their game, they’re the gamegods, and can do whatever they want. You signed the TOS, stating exactly that. “If we screw you over, bad luck. Cry moar.”

   making a big fuss seems to be helping… But really, has it ever helped?

   Anyone remember project open letter?
8. 

   Ismell tripe
   

   Sep 1st, 2008
   

   Sorry but whats the story here? So Socrates isn’t too swift when it comes to public relations. Of course what was said just before the “ban button” comment was left out to make the story juicyer. Catigories for ARs, great idea, I’m sure it will help and isn’t going to shut down combat in combat areas. No change to TOS here mates. An AR of “I got shot on a combat sim!!!” isn’t going to any further than “she was naked in the stripclub”.

   If this combat group stays to ligit areas they will be fine and they know it. But if they come out of there little area to grieve people they deserve to get ARed.
9. 

   Bemused
   

   Sep 1st, 2008
   

   “Just to clarify, the entirety of the relevant conversation with Socrates about the subject of the article is posted.”
   Posted by: Caine Constantine

   Hardly, othewise you’d have posted the whole log unedited so folks could judge the context of the statement on their own. You purposefully set off that particular quote in order prejudicially inflame.

   “@ Bemused

   Kalel/Corsi/Eye,

   Shut up.

   for the Intlibber!”

   Posted by: Proteus hand

   I’m neither of the three. Cast your asperion net a bit wider. The previous article I posted in, I was accused of being Plexus. Total lack of imagination seems to be the rule.
10. 

    Eye Korobase
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    Well….
    I can see it now….
    Merczs attack TFM, TFM ARs them, half of the attacking force will be banned until cleaned up and the same with Sparta.
    You can not do much in the way of getting your point across to a linden, because
    1. They care more of themself and their LL friend then the mass pop. of SL itself
    2. LL has hated SL combat since it started and are slowly eating away at it until there is no more combat within SL
    and 3. They think of themselves as gods before they do human beings

    The simple reason why LL has hated SL combat since it started is mainly because it makes Lindens work, in which they ALL HATE TO DO, even though it is their job to play a game for hours on end and enjoy themselves within the game. By Work, of course I mean lindens get called in sometimes to fix sim problems, repond to a support ticket to move a combat sim, etc etc

    Sadly, SL is not the United States of Second Life with a full goverment by the people, for the people. SL is a Dictatorship run by more then one person.
    Mainly, this is why I do not really see the point in logging in when you hear about this type of crap all the time.
11. 

    Soviet
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    Ohohohoho, and nothing of value was lost.
12. 

    Tizzers Foxchase
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    “All forms of government ultimately are not going to succeed in trying to control or censor the Internet.” -Rupert Murdoch
13. 

    Ivy Contepomi
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    While I couldn’t attend the meeting with the Gteam, I was in a lot of talks with Heather McKay of Merczateers before the meeting; and in discussions with others, there were far more worries about the armies that feel griefing is a natural part of battle using the new A/R. Sparta will not be A/R’ing attackers, so you can stop while you’re ahead, Eye. We’ve agreements and understandings with our large enemies in place that has led to some very cooperative standings, and abuse reporting is a non issue with us regardless.

    I’m fairly comfortable with the way Socrates answered the issue. I’dve preferred to see more discussion about the new merchant abuse report for non-delivery of items.
14. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    Oh, that’s normal for them. They accuse anybody that disagrees with them (which is really just about everybody) of being everybody from Plexus Linden to the FBI. They’re just taking potshots, because they don’t actually have much of a clue – which if you think about it, is why they take these preposterous stances in the first place. If they had a clue, they wouldn’t think their viewpoint was more important than the entire rest of the grid and Linden Lab combined.

    IntLibber coming to Prokofy’s defense, by the way, was sheer comedy.

    Eye, you’re missing the target too, here, guy. It’s not the United States of Second Life. You got that part right. But it’s not a dictatorship either. You’re still working on the same mental model that IntLibber is, which is that it is subject to any kind of legal or constitutional operational comparison.

    It’s not. It’s this big online service, Linden Lab provides the service, and they have a legal responsibility to keep illegal activity off the grid – and a business responsibility to make sure most of the people who use the grid are happy being there, so they keep coming back.

    The number of people who come to SL to shoot at each other is a tiny tiny minority, therefore, you can whine and fuss like babies all you want, it’s not gonna matter. Like Socrates said – it’s not a government. It’s all about the Terms of Service, and the ban button. You don’t like the terms, don’t come to SL. That simple, and good riddance.
15. 

    FrizzleFry101
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0MfGd_t7tI
16. 

    Prokofy Neva
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    Good Lord, with a line like that, if reported accurately, Socrates needs to go back and study his namesake, and learn how to think in the Socratic method as well. Awful…We should have gotten the full transcript to understand the context, it should be posted.

    The Herald is failing to grasp ALL the dangerous elements in these new abuse categories, which involve inciting and anticipating punishments for crimes not even defined in the TOS, which I described here:
    http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2008/08/abusive-new-abu.html

    “failure to deliver good or service” is not a TOS offense.

    Focusing only on combat abuses is typical of the Herald.

    I guess Harry Linden must be doing something right if Intlibber is busy trying to get him fired. I hope the Lindens remain strong on this.

    On the abuse categories, they need to drop all the abusive categories themselves and stick only to what is TOS actionable.

    Um, I’m not scared about anyone who I’ve “kicked out” ARing me — fortunately rental boxes and the account recording system in SL make it pretty easy to resolve any rental disputes, and a cursory check of chatlogs and residents’ behaviours will make it easy to detect the real story, i.e. if a landlord expels a tenant for repeatedly failing to pay the rent on time, or shooting and griefing another tenant.

    The few instances when I did not return rent to a paying customer — a rare occurence indeed — was because they were both members of the Woodbury U griefing squad, two griefers with long-time grudges, Shaun Altman and his new bf. They were harassing my tenants, putting up a communist sign, flying around and being nuisances, and coming back to grief on alts after being banned. No, people who deliberately rent from this group in the heart of Ravenglass sim in order to harass me don’t get a refund. Anyone can see that they deliberately rented to heckle me, not because these two rich furries need a home.

    Denying them a refund will help prevent them from continuing to subject my properties and my tenants to damages. Any court of law would recognize this. In real life, you leave the first month’s rent as a deposit, and if you trashed the place and used the apartment to harass the other people in the building, you’d be out of there, and without a refund, for violating the lease.

    This very proper handling of griefers that Intblubber supports financially and morally is hardly to be characterized as being a “slumlord” or “fearing an AR”. In fact, I’m the one who’s AR’d Shaun for installing an extortionist ad farm next to my property, causing it not to rent for weeks, and apparently my AR has done some good, as he was finally forced to take down his griefing ad farm, that had directly incited people to buy and harass me, and replace it with a business of sorts, which of course amounts to harassment of another kind, selling scripts to detect Lindens online to be able to nag them, etc.
17. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    The observant reader will also note that it was IntLibber BnT who attended the GTeam meeting, and not IntLibber Brautigan, per usual: the reason is that his IntLibber Brautigan account was suspended for his having been unable to pay his sim maintenance fees for two weeks, just like the last time this happened.
18. 

    General Drama
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    Its not unexpected that Socrates would try to allay people’s concerns here. His responses are typical cop-speak about any constitutionally questionable law that is prone to abuse: the cops always say, “if you are a law abiding citizen, you have nothing to worry about!…. nothing to see here people, move along…..”

    The logical fallacy of such argumentation is so simple even children recognise in The Wizard of Oz, the whole “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” sort of “shut up we know what were doing” unfounded presumption of appeal to authority not earned.

    When the secret police in this People’s Republic enable anyone to be an informant for Big Brother via the AR system on any topic, regardless of the ToS etc, be wary. When those same secret police get to operate as investigator, jailor, prosecutor, judge, and jury, then it is inevitable that abuses of power will occur, and when an ethically questionable person is in charge, like Harry Linden is, then corruption and toleration of corruption instantly becomes tyranny.

    The presumption by some that the ToS is the highest law here is also completely false (sorry Socrates). SL is a company town. Suggest you all start reading up….

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_v._Alabama

    “The State attempted to analogize the town’s rights to the rights of homeowners to regulate the conduct of guests in their home. The Court rejected that contention, noting that ownership “does not always mean absolute dominion.” The court pointed out that the more an owner opens his property up to the public in general, the more his rights are circumscribed by the statutory and constitutional rights of those who are invited in.

    In its conclusion, the Court stated that it was essentially using a balancing test, weighing the rights of property owners against the rights of citizens to enjoy freedom of press and religion. The Court noted, however, that the latter occupy a preferred position. Accordingly, the Court held that the property rights of a private entity are not sufficient to justify the restriction of a community of citizens’ fundamental rights and liberties.”
19. 

    Caine Constantine
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    This is the entire transcript. I did delete lines like “Pierce Kronos chuckles” to give people less to read who were interested in the combat subject. Here it is nevertheless.

    Thank you,
    Caine

    Lindens present: Socrates, Colton, Plexus, and Teagan

    [12:01] Bicky Burger: hi everyone
    [12:01] Naorvos Farella: hi
    [12:01] Caine Constantine: hello Bicky
    [12:01] Georgette Whitfield: Hiya
    [12:01] Dakota Schwade: Hi Socrates.
    [12:01] Socrates Linden: Hi everyone
    [12:01] Trinity Heckroth: Hi Socrates.
    [12:02] Grey Nolder: Good evening, Mr. Socrates.
    [12:02] Nock Forager: Hi Socrates.
    [12:02] Caine Constantine: Hello Socrates.
    [12:02] You: Hello Socrates
    [12:02] Naorvos Farella: hiyas
    [12:02] Blade Syakumi: I almost called you Mister Socks..
    [12:02] Bady Boozehound: Hello Socrates
    [12:02] Blade Syakumi: That would have been very awkward.
    [12:02] Georgette Whitfield: Hi Socrates
    [12:03] Socrates Linden: Greetings everyone, do we have any first time visitors today?
    [12:03] Bady Boozehound: Yes
    [12:03] Bicky Burger: yes me
    [12:03] Trinity Heckroth: Indeed!
    [12:03] You: Yes
    [12:03] Blade Syakumi: Woo.
    [12:03] Grey Nolder: Aye.
    [12:03] Georgette Whitfield: Yes
    [12:03] Naorvos Farella: to this location yes
    [12:03] Pierce Kronos: not me
    [12:04] Socrates Linden: welcome all, the sign to my right outlines are meetings, but basically it’s a chance to share your ideas and questions about governance.
    [12:04] Natok Dryke: socrates… do you give out your teddy? )
    [12:04] Socrates Linden: Today we are also going to focus on the new categories coming to the viewer in the next release
    [12:04] Georgette Whitfield: Hi Kaylee!
    [12:04] Trinity Heckroth:
    [12:04] Pierce Kronos: AR Categories?
    [12:04] Socrates Linden: I can give bears out at the end of the meeting
    [12:04] Georgette Whitfield: Woot hi Colton
    [12:04] Natok Dryke: cool yay
    [12:04] Colton Linden: OhhhHais
    [12:04] Trinity Heckroth wants a puppeteer and socratese bear
    [12:05] Georgette Whitfield: Me too!
    [12:05] Socrates Linden: Basically, the pull down in Abuse Reports is about to expand to a few more categories
    [12:05] Pierce Kronos: Cool.
    [12:05] Socrates Linden: the initial aim is to get a more fine tuned feedback about what residents are reporting, and where we should put our efforts.
    [12:05] Grey Nolder nods…
    [12:06] Socrates Linden: I don’t have news anymore specific than new categories, wi’ll be tuning those as we see how people use them
    [12:07] Socrates Linden: Natok, we’ll start with you.
    [12:07] Public Microphone: adding Arawn Spitteler to the question queue.
    [12:07] Natok Dryke: allright, of course its great you added more categories… however i wanted to ask if its possible to add a new one for exploits aiming against secondlife users, because more and more griefers come up with manipulated viewers making other people crash instantly
    [12:09] Socrates Linden: makign people crash would fall under current categories. If we see a particular incident needing more detail for us to deal with it, then we may add more.
    [12:09] Socrates Linden: We expect to find out a lot on the day it goes live.
    [12:09] Natok Dryke: “an object owned by lalala gives you a simstate called “uuid number here”
    [12:09] Natok Dryke: i dont think the viewer was made for using that
    [12:09] Public Microphone: adding Naorvos Farella to the question queue.
    [12:10] Natok Dryke: no object or other regular item…. it makes the viewer crash
    [12:10] Natok Dryke: and most of the time you dont have a chance to report
    [12:10] Socrates Linden: something that actually involves what the viewer itself does should also be reported in PJIRA
    [12:11] Natok Dryke: allright, thank you. wasnt sure where to report such things.
    [12:11] Natok Dryke: done.
    [12:11] Natok Dryke: done
    [12:11] Socrates Linden: thanks Natok, Grey you are up
    [12:12] Grey Nolder: Mr. Socrates Linden, I am here to voice my concerns, as well as the concerns as (I’m sure) a few other individuals in the meeting here, over what I’ve been told is a new Abuse Report cetegory illustrated along the lines of “Assault in a Damage Simulator.”
    [12:12] Socrates Linden: go ahead Grey
    [12:13] Grey Nolder: First of all, it’d be nice to understand the workings of this report itself. The reasoning is quite simple. Apart from the obvious fact that if you donot wish to die you may simply leave damage land, or turn damage off on your parcel or simulator; it has the potential to be exploited as detrimental to the SecondLife Military Community.
    [12:13] Blade Syakumi: Here, here.
    [12:13] Trinity Heckroth: Indeed.
    [12:13] Naorvos Farella: mmm
    [12:14] Georgette Whitfield: Is that a rumour or really going ahead?
    [12:14] Georgette Whitfield: Sorry mic
    [12:14] Grey Nolder: And I willnot be quiet when it comes to laying down individuals or groups; Militaries such as Sparta, commanded by the infamous “Bruno Ziskey” are notorious for the exploitation of administration powers between assaulting forces within the SecondLife Military community.
    [12:14] Gellan Glenelg: The category is “Assault > Combat sandbox / unsafe area”
    [12:15] Grey Nolder: And to allow individuals the power to, in spite, begin the sending of il-legitimate abuse reports onto members of opposing SecondLife Militaries is a very real concern.
    [12:15] Socrates Linden: You can assult someone in a combat area that is set to damge. If the assult does not involve combat.
    [12:15] Grey Nolder: Come again?
    [12:15] Socrates Linden: Combat is combat, shooting at each other. We do not allow spamming people or crashing the sim in any areas.
    [12:16] Socrates Linden: Thus the need to file for assault in a combat area remains.
    [12:16] Teagan Linden: Sidenote: the new categories are just that, categories. It doesn’t mean there is a change in policy on how we respond to reports – it’s just a better tool for you to report, and us to prioritize.
    [12:16] Grey Nolder: I can uderstand if it is strictly covering your damage-enabled simulators (Linden owned) or sandboxes, but private simulators under the command of SecondLife Military groups is, I’m sure, a very different story. Greifers can be contained under the power and authority of the ruling party.
    [12:17] Socrates Linden: Please understand that we read these, there is no automation. If someone reports “I was shot in this area” and we see that is a combat area we are not going to take aciton.
    [12:17] Socrates Linden: The rulling party is me and my ban button. No others.
    [12:17] Pierce Kronos chuckles
    [12:17] Aryou Lykin: do u have an itchy finger? lol
    [12:17] Grey Nolder: The ruling party within a simulator such as Badnarik will be the Merczateers, Mr. Socrates.
    [12:17] Socrates Linden: This isn’t a democracy. It’s about enforcement of Terms of Service.
    [12:18] Grey Nolder: It’s their simulator and their regulations for combat.
    [12:18] Socrates Linden: I’m afraid not Grey.
    [12:18] Socrates Linden: You can not have any rules that go above the TOS.. period
    [12:18] Grey Nolder: We’re not addressing a breach of Terms of Service here.
    [12:18] Grey Nolder: The initial concern voiced was how it would effect the structure of SecondLife Militaries, if at all.
    [12:18] Socrates Linden: ok then if we are not you are off topic next question please or say done.
    [12:19] Socrates Linden: There is no change in TOS, there will be no change without announcement.
    [12:19] Grey Nolder: So if you will, then, answer this simple question…
    [12:19] Socrates Linden: I’d be happy to.
    [12:20] Grey Nolder: Would LindenLabs take action onto an abuse report filed by members of a SecondLife Military against an agressor force from another Military?
    [12:21] Socrates Linden: We would absolutely not take any affiliation into context for an abuse report. There is one force. The “residents”
    [12:21] Grey Nolder: Thankyou, Mr. Socrates. I’ll allow my other comrades to voice their more ‘fine-tuned’ concerns about the issue, if they still hold any.
    [12:21] Grey Nolder: done
    [12:21] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Karlhockey Forte
    [12:22] Socrates Linden: Karl, you are up
    [12:22] Karlhockey Forte: Alright, I came to talk abotu the same subject whihc grey discussed, but I have a few points to add to that.
    [12:23] Karlhockey Forte: Now, this new section to post ARs, if used, will need to be heavily watched to see who is lying or who is not.
    [12:23] Socrates Linden: You say that as if we dont’ do that now ^_^
    [12:24] Socrates Linden: do you know how many people report parcel encroachment under “age” ?
    [12:24] Nock Forager: lol
    [12:24] Karlhockey Forte: The large group or faction it would affect, to be honest, can have people who are extremely abusive of the AR system.
    [12:24] Pierce Kronos: presumption
    [12:25] Karlhockey Forte: I have lost count of how many people simply report someone for age and get knocked off the grid.
    [12:25] Socrates Linden: again, it’s nothing new to us. (false reports)
    [12:25] Socrates Linden: what is false, is the idea that we ban for no reason.
    [12:26] Grey Nolder: (and they can.)
    [12:26] Karlhockey Forte: I basicly am asking to watch this section more heavily then others, it has a higher chance of being abused then the other sections ARs can be posted under.
    [12:27] Natok Dryke: ( there is an age verification system on the sl website … *cough* )
    [12:27] Windowlic Klaar is Online
    [12:27] Colton Linden: he’ll be right back
    [12:27] Teagan Linden: Sorry all, Socrates crashed.
    [12:28] Trinity Heckroth: ….XD
    [12:28] Georgette Whitfield: So did I
    [12:28] Naorvos Farella: lulz
    [12:28] Karlhockey Forte: The age verication portal is 100% foolproof yet, I had to manually because it failed for me.
    [12:28] Arawn Spitteler wonders if Socrates was also on the RC: I hope the mike will be turned off, at closing, this time.
    [12:28] Natok Dryke: was np for me with my driver licence
    [12:28] Grey Nolder: AND some of us enjoy our anonymity. The last time I heard about the Age Verification System, it wanted my Social Security number.
    [12:28] Public Microphone: adding Trinity Heckroth to the question queue.
    [12:29] Grey Nolder: LindenLabs already has my payment info on file, and they probably shouldn’t have that.
    [12:29] Naorvos Farella: indeed that angered me. AND DON’T TELL ME TO WAIT MY TURN!!!! Stupid mike.
    [12:29] Natok Dryke: i had the choice between id card, passport and driving licence
    [12:29] Caine Constantine: This is not a democracy guys. We’re just here to get our marching orders.
    [12:29] Nock Forager: wb socrates.
    [12:29] Socrates Linden: and we’re back
    [12:30] Grey Nolder raises an arm into a “Seig Heil” gesture. “Of course, Mr. Constantine!”
    [12:30] Socrates Linden: sorry so where was I.. ah yes.. reports do not get acted upon unless we find reason to ban you.
    [12:30] Natok Dryke: grey… thats heavily molesting me… im a jew… thank you
    [12:30] Pierce Kronos: TMI
    [12:30] Grey Nolder: It was satire on the infrastucture of LindenLabs and the power they hold, Mr. Dryke.
    [12:30] Karlhockey Forte: Waiting for things to quietly down.
    [12:31] Karlhockey Forte: queit, rather.
    [12:31] Aryou Lykin: can we speed this up please
    [12:31] Natok Dryke: its racism… and its violating the feeling of a whole population.
    [12:31] Naorvos Farella: I’m a jew and I find it funny
    [12:31] Naorvos Farella: shut it.
    [12:31] Trinity Heckroth:
    [12:31] Socrates Linden: Karl, did you have any other questions.
    [12:31] Grey Nolder: You over-react to nothing, Mr. Dryke. It was simply a way of portraying that this, is indeed, a fascism we’re under.
    [12:31] Georgette Whitfield: Wow this meeting is an eye opener
    [12:31] Karlhockey Forte: I have a closing statement.
    [12:31] Natok Dryke: its not funny at all
    [12:32] Caine Constantine: If you’re that easily offended, Second Life must be hard.
    [12:32] Teagan Linden: Let’s keep on topic, and to the mic queue please.
    [12:32] Caine Constantine: My apologies.
    [12:32] Grey Nolder: My apologies, was simply defending myself.
    [12:33] Karlhockey Forte: I sincerely hope this is going to be thought over, because this has, if abused, major issues it could cause to people who are just here for fun.
    [12:33] Karlhockey Forte: done
    [12:33] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Bady Boozehound
    [12:33] Bady Boozehound: thanks
    [12:34] Socrates Linden: I’m only here for fun, so I’ll keep that in mind, next up bady boozehound
    [12:34] Bady Boozehound: Is there anything i can do against someone who keeps crashing a complete sim again and again, besides sending an abuse report (what is mostly never possible in time of happening, because the sim is down too fast) ?
    [12:34] Trinity Heckroth: \o/
    [12:34] Socrates Linden: If someone is repeatedly crashing a sim, it will show up in our logs.
    [12:34] Trinity Heckroth: …(that was supposed to be an IM… bad timing)
    [12:34] Socrates Linden: If someone is repeatedly crashing your client, you’d need to report them for us to find out.
    [12:35] Bady Boozehound: No, the sim, not my client
    [12:35] Bady Boozehound: Yesterday 3 times for example
    [12:35] Natok Dryke: no problem, the creator of that sim crasher is called phillie kohn and sells it for 1k L$
    [12:35] Socrates Linden: If it’s the sim, report it anyhow,however I get a lot of reports of “so and so is crashing the sim” and upon log investigation it was a self rezzing dolphin causing the issue.
    [12:36] Bady Boozehound: No, i have seen him rezzing the self multiplying boxes, so please take that serious
    [12:37] Naorvos Farella: Suggestion if I may?
    [12:37] Socrates Linden: when possible, right click and report the box itself. I understand that can be difficult in the cases of something very laggy or crashy, but a report is the best way to do it.
    [12:37] Socrates Linden: If it’s a known object causing an issue, report the crash to PJIRA
    [12:37] Socrates Linden: that’s why we have “crash me” sim for.
    [12:37] Bady Boozehound: I tried … but the sim was down before it could click the box
    [12:38] Nock Forager: (Crash me is for testing?)
    [12:38] Bady Boozehound: I have to find him in the sim before anyway
    [12:38] Naorvos Farella: (yep)
    [12:38] Socrates Linden: there’s a sign outlining use upon TP
    [12:39] Socrates Linden: just before havok 4 it read “please no phsyical crashes” (that was too easy) but I’m not sure if it’s been updated.
    [12:39] Naorvos Farella: May I suggest something to bady and anyone else here who expierences that?
    [12:39] Bady Boozehound: Please do so
    [12:40] Socrates Linden: due to the number of people we have in queue please save your questions and suggestions for your turn. Bady did you have another question?
    [12:40] Socrates Linden: I’d like to remind everyone to please have their question ready to paste when your turn comes up.
    [12:40] Bady Boozehound: As this one isn’t really answered … ok. but i don’t have other questions.
    [12:40] Bady Boozehound: done
    [12:40] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Arawn Spitteler
    [12:41] Arawn Spitteler: My issue is primarily for Billing, but has the potential for Legal Ramifications, and damage to Repute.
    [12:42] Socrates Linden: If it’s a specific case I’d report it as an Abuse Report, I can’t address a specific issue here.
    [12:42] Socrates Linden: but if you have a general question I’d be happy to help
    [12:42] Arawn Spitteler: There’s a policy in practice, at variance with the policy posted and implied, that those of us with no payment info on file, are not allowed to drag our hard earned lindens home.
    [12:43] Arawn Spitteler: General form, I put the Ticket umber in a AR on Wednesday, when Zara had left the mike on.
    [12:43] Arawn Spitteler: I expect it’s a bean counter, who’s scared of Money, and Billing is a high burnout portion of an organization.
    [12:44] Socrates Linden: I’d direct your question to http://www.secondlife.com/support/ Governance would not cover policy regarding your payment info.
    [12:45] Arawn Spitteler: Heads up, though, a lawyer is someday going to be organizing a class action, asking for one third of triple damages.
    [12:45] Arawn Spitteler: I’ve potential sanctions, and hope to report to Meta, whether I’ve had to employ them.
    [12:45] Arawn Spitteler: done
    [12:45] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Caine Constantine
    [12:45] Socrates Linden: That would be directed toward legal.
    [12:46] Socrates Linden: next up Caine
    [12:46] Caine Constantine: If I could ask a question with a few parts based on your response, what actually constitutes assault in a combat zone?
    [12:46] Caine Constantine: or in an “unsafe area”
    [12:46] Socrates Linden: any type of text spam, or trying to hurt an avatar at the viewer or sim level
    [12:46] Socrates Linden: that is… no spamming the sim with physics (or replicators)
    [12:47] Caine Constantine: Crashing a sim was something you said counted, right?
    [12:47] Socrates Linden: no spamming someone with text or inventory offers.
    [12:47] Socrates Linden: anything that hurts a sim violates TOS most of the time (I can’t think of an example where it doesnt’)
    [12:47] Public Microphone: adding Gellan Glenelg to the question queue.
    [12:47] Caine Constantine: But with heavy assaults of dozens of avatars, sims often crash all on their own without malicious activity. And with the guns some people have, sims can lag to death, teleports can break, and things can generally go bad – all with no malicious intent. Is this sort of stuff reportable and could it lead to a ban?.
    [12:48] Socrates Linden: if it’s spread out with may people using objects, we are not going to treat that as an intentional attack on a sim
    [12:48] Public Microphone: adding Natok Dryke to the question queue.
    [12:48] Socrates Linden: losing by 4 kills and deciding to fill the sim up with cubes shouting “rape” does count as griefing.
    [12:49] Caine Constantine: But what about what usually happens when it is not that clear? For example, what if one group invades another groups sim, and the place crashes due to normal combat, and then the defending side chooses to report the attackers?
    [12:49] Socrates Linden: then we will read it. and check the logs
    [12:50] Socrates Linden: if a sim is crashed by objects that relate to combat, and do not show that they have another purpose such as lagging the sim in whole or in part, no action would be taken
    [12:51] Socrates Linden: it used to happen hourly pre-havok 4 so we are used to filtering for that.
    [12:51] Caine Constantine: Alright, that is good to hear. But just to clarify then,
    [12:51] Caine Constantine: the things you will be counting as assault are related to attacks on the integrity of the sim, or other obvious griefing like the rape cubes you mentioned?
    [12:51] Socrates Linden: If I may add, the new catagories are to help clarify what people are reporting, what we find and do about it will reamain the same
    [12:52] Socrates Linden: that is how we approach the issue will not change
    [12:52] Socrates Linden: we just hope to get a finer point of view from the residents
    [12:52] Caine Constantine: Thank you – and one last question. Do you have time to honestly go through each and every abuse report related to combat, legitimate or not?
    [12:53] Caine Constantine: not necessarily combat
    [12:53] Caine Constantine: any ARs
    [12:53] Public Microphone: adding Georgette Whitfield to the question queue.
    [12:54] Socrates Linden: As you may have seen on the blog we are sprucing up how we will blog to make sure those changes are known as soon as they happen. We have no plans for any, as soon as the current RC goes live and we get the whole grid rreporting on the new categories, we’ll see what adjustments are needed. but our response will not change at all.
    [12:54] Socrates Linden: As far as what AR’s we go though, we’ve grown to the point where we get about 100% of them. However since we don’t give feedback directly (for privacy reasons) there is still a lot of impression that we “don’t do anything”
    [12:54] Socrates Linden: what some people don’t realize is that what they are reporting is not against TOS
    [12:55] Socrates Linden: “She was naked in this strip club!”
    [12:55] Caine Constantine: I can appreciate that. I am glad we can both understand there is a disconnect here.
    [12:55] Caine Constantine: Hahaha, right
    [12:55] Georgette Whitfield: lol
    [12:55] Windowlic Klaar is Offline
    [12:55] Caine Constantine: but see, when you say that
    [12:55] Caine Constantine: it sounds a lot like what some of us are worried about, whcih is
    [12:55] Caine Constantine: which is*
    [12:55] Aryou Lykin: can we continue??
    [12:55] Caine Constantine: “I got shot in this damage zone and I didn’t wanna be!”
    [12:55] Caine Constantine: So yeah, if that’s no problem, then we’re good.
    [12:56] Caine Constantine: Thanks for the help Socrates.
    [12:56] Socrates Linden: thanks caine, the issue is older than the new categories so shoudl be fine, just say done if you are finished
    [12:56] Caine Constantine: done
    [12:56] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Aryou Lykin
    [12:56] Socrates Linden: another person with AR in their name!
    [12:56] Aryou Lykin: of coarse
    [12:56] Aryou Lykin: Hi i have 2 questions, (1) is are we ever going to have more than 25 groups in our profile to keep? for some of us, 25 is not enough…and 2nd question (2) wHO IS THE head PERSON(S) IN CHARGE of deciding which games gets returned to owner, and what is considered games alowed/not allowed, i would like to talk directly to that person privately, and it seems there are 15 ppl in that position, who is the head of that position who has the FINAL say who is ABOVE the G-Team?who do they answer to…. thks
    [12:57] Socrates Linden: gteam actually gets it’s policy from all of LL
    [12:57] Aryou Lykin: if nothing changed to the TOS and LL first allows games and than still nothing changed to the TOS and LL decided not to allow the same games anymore, who is taking that decision ?
    [12:57] Socrates Linden: so some of what we do comes form the community team, and some from legal, and a few from other places.
    [12:58] Socrates Linden: But it’s LL as a whole who make that choice, we are in charge of enforcing it.
    [12:58] Aryou Lykin: who has the final say to enforce it
    [12:58] Aryou Lykin: : can members of the legal team be spoken with inworld ?
    [12:58] Socrates Linden: We do the initial enforcement, but for 30 days after any action people are open to appeal. Actually longer than 30 days but that is the window where your account remains untouched in a permanent ban
    [12:58] Socrates Linden: Not at this time Aryou.
    [12:59] Marty Milos: Socrates, last saturdar you mentioned trying to get a meeting with game developers and the legal team.. any word on that?
    [12:59] Aryou Lykin: so they can enforce it and we have no one to state our side to
    [12:59] Socrates Linden: you can file an appeal. Please keep in mind we do not act without investigating first.
    [13:00] Aryou Lykin: ok what about the 25 groups
    [13:00] Socrates Linden: We’ve had appeals such as “surely you can’t ban me for shooting someone back!”
    [13:00] Aryou Lykin: is that going to be extended
    [13:00] Socrates Linden: to which my answer is.. “oh yes we can”
    [13:00] Socrates Linden: 25 groups… no word on that .. but that would be up to Rx (resident experince) and community.
    [13:00] Aryou Lykin: ok thks
    [13:00] Aryou Lykin: \done
    [13:01] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Naorvos Farella
    [13:01] Naorvos Farella: I ask if certain items can get you banned for laggin and or possibly crashing a sim well……thing is there are some targets that prasy out gore and such that can do that and have done that……..would that count as a bannable or reportable offense if for instance saomone wanted to do mass target practice as I often do. I have found that at least one of my targets which is legitmate is used by some greifer groups as well…..which to be honest with you pisses me off to no end. I use them for there legitamte purpose but they use them to cause mass havoc and other such things…
    [13:01] Socrates Linden: if items are lagging and crashing a sim, and we see that it’s a decoration, or otherwise not a direct attempt, we will contact or warn the resident first.
    [13:02] Naorvos Farella: ah
    [13:02] Socrates Linden: tip: don’t make any decorations called “sim raep”
    [13:02] Naorvos Farella: I’ve noticed some greifers use something called the H2 barrel when maybe 1 or two are out do no real harm to a sim
    [13:02] Naorvos Farella: they spawn dozens or hundreds of them
    [13:02] Naorvos Farella: to crash them
    [13:03] Naorvos Farella: ah yes bady
    [13:03] Naorvos Farella: Bady I suggest when the greifer shows up to print screen which is a button right next to the f12 key. Go to paint and click in it’s menu paste. That will give you a screenshot incase SL is lagging. Make sure to well first off to get ri of the rest of the screen save for the SL window if you can. Anyway if you can click the box itself that’d be great as well. Then send the shot to pjira if possible or a linden….if they have a suggestion for where to send it to…
    [13:03] Socrates Linden: even the beach ball can be used to grief.. we’ve maintained a policy that no object is automatically a griefer item, only it’s use.
    [13:03] Naorvos Farella: ah
    [13:03] Naorvos Farella: hmmm there goes my beachball prank popgun
    [13:04] Socrates Linden: I have a gun that shoots elephants (as in as projectiles)
    [13:04] Naorvos Farella: ah
    [13:04] Naorvos Farella: well if thats thwe case then I have no further questions.
    [13:04] Naorvos Farella: done
    [13:04] Public Microphone: Next up to speak is Trinity Heckroth
    [13:04] Socrates Linden: I reallize there are may of you who have not had the chance to speak. Trinity, you wil be the last speaker
    [13:04] Trinity Heckroth: I have heard, albeit second hand, that Bub Linden stated that more than ten avatars teleporting into a sim can be AR’d as Assault in a Damage Simulator because of stress caused to the servers at LL. Is this true? And if it is true, why not address server issues instead of limiting freedoms of residents?
    [13:05] Pierce Kronos blinks at heresay
    [13:06] Socrates Linden: We can’t label any action so directly as a griefing, I think, if anyone said that, it was more to mean if you TP avatars with the direct idea of crashing a sim., that will be addressed
    [13:06] Trinity Heckroth: Ah.
    [13:06] Socrates Linden: and it would have to be 10 belonging to one person
    [13:06] Socrates Linden: I think 10′s a little low. would take more than that
    [13:06] Trinity Heckroth nods. “Thank you.”
    [13:07] Socrates Linden: ok I’m sorry we are out of time.
    [13:07] Pierce Kronos: thanks for another great Saturday, Socrates.
    [13:07] Caine Constantine: Thanks for the help Socrates.
    [13:08] Nock Forager: seeya.
    [13:08] Caine Constantine: I feel like we all grew a bit today.
    [13:08] Naorvos Farella: are you calling me short?
    [13:08] Caine Constantine: Deal with it.
    [13:08] Caine Constantine: hahaha
    [13:08] Naorvos Farella: just wait till we get back to new jessie buddy
    [13:08] Caine Constantine: haha
    [13:09] Marty Milos: was that griefing
    [13:09] Trinity Heckroth: Socrates I demand a bear.
20. 

    Sigmund Leominster
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    “This isn’t a democracy. It’s about enforcement of Terms of Service.”

    In two simple sentences, Socrates probably summarizes pretty well just about where the Second Life(TM) community currently stands. So often you’ll have heard the cliched metaphor of this being “like the Wild West” but what Socrates said points toward where things are moving.

    This is not a democracy in the sense that there are two things missing from the Second Life experience that are essential for a true democracy to work: elected representation and a legal system. Both these are stunningly absent and clearly the cause of some discontent among residents.

    The Terms of Service (TOS) represent a “constitution:” the Abuse Report Categories (ARCs) represent a “legal system.” Just as in a real democracy, the laws of the land attempt to preserve a constitution and the laws are ever-subject to change and interpretation. There’s not always a need for “constitutional change” but there is always room for changes in the laws.

    What we are seeing is something of a fledgling democracy, with a non-elected government (the Governance Team) trying to bolster the constitution (TOS) by the use of a developing legal system (ARCs). What is also lacking is a way of enforcing the law – there is no “police force” nor many ways to punish people other than a ban. And as we can see, the ability to create alts at any time makes the ban of limited value.

    Am I suggesting that the Second Life experience should simply be a clone of western democracy? Nah, not at all. What I am saying is that by looking at the parallels between current RL political and economic systems, we might learn something about what we want to so with the virtual world we inhabit. Oh, and I say we because I’m happy to hold Socrates to his assertion that, “There is one force. The ‘residents’” – and I am one of them.
21. 

    IntLibber Brautigan
    

    Sep 1st, 2008
    

    Neo Citizen,
    Actually, I have kept my name out of search intentionally to get people used to interacting with my corporate avatar, IntLibber BnT, rather than my personal avatar.

    As you can see, I am back in search as I reflagged that.

    Neo’s little smears and aspersions show up for what they really are.
22. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Sep 2nd, 2008
    

    All that proves is that you finally managed to pay your tier, Int. Now, if you had used that avatar to communicate with somebody during your “intentional blackout” and they were able to produce chat logs of that, then somebody might actually buy that line of bull.

    However, nobody’s in the market for fertilizer today.
23. 

    Steve319 cao
    

    Sep 2nd, 2008
    

    A couple of things need observing here folks,

    Firstly
    Yes it is a fact LL has hated SL combat since its inception however they cannot ignore the massive amount of money being thrown into the LL economy by military groups from the likes of mercz for example that own 4 regions for Christ sake , or even the average Noob wanting to buy his first assault rifle from somewhere like Titan or Operations , so weather they may hate SL combat or not there not about to risk devaluing the game and turn there own economy to shit.

    Secondly
    I am a tad concerned that groups who play the game with nothing but malicious intent will see these new tools as a forum to exploit them in an effort to wipe out your enemy,
    I feel that we as a community need to unite on this issue and develop a general agreement not to exploit this tool for personal gain as I personally don’t think LL will distinguish as much as they say they will.

    Steve319 Cao
    U.N.I.T
24. 

    Debi Dastardly
    

    Sep 2nd, 2008
    

    @ Neo Citizen:
    I happen to be a friend of Intlibber and have both of his acctounts on my friends list. In the time period to which you refer I have seen them both online and yes I have even spoken to each many times.
    I don’t know who you are but in one post on a previous article you referred to yourself as being in security in real life. So this is what I have surmised about you Neo.I have determined that you must be a very unhappy overweight person that has failed in life at most everything you have set your hand to, And that the success of others weather it is in a virtual world or not reminds you of how much of a loser your donut chomping security job has turned you into a hateful unfulfilled personality. And you think by trying to slander people on the internet that will make up for your own shortcomings in life.
    Well take of the mask sir it isn’t working I and 90% of the people that see your ridiculous post see more then you think we do.
    In closing I have a question about your name. Dose your name Neo Citizen anything like Neo Nazi? It may just be me but there seems to be similarities.
    Deb Smiles
25. 

    Debi Dastardly
    

    Sep 2nd, 2008
    

    @ Neo Citizen:
    One more thing I left out, You say lets see proof that he wasn’t suspended. I say the burden of proof is on you the accuser. Lets see it other wise shut up please.
    Deb Smiles Again
26. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Sep 2nd, 2008
    

    “Debi Dastardly” will be somebody known to be sleeping on Tizzers Foxchase’s couch.

    Considering who you are, your word is less than worthless.
27. 

    Proof
    

    Sep 2nd, 2008
    

    “I say the burden of proof is on you the accuser. Lets see it other wise shut up please.”

    His ‘proof’ is that he himself and his friends didn’t see Intlibber.
28. 

    Zrazor Rozenstrauch
    

    Sep 2nd, 2008
    

    “Dose your name Neo Citizen anything like Neo Nazi?”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

    Also, you’re dumb.
29. 

    Debi Dastardly
    

    Sep 2nd, 2008
    

    “His ‘proof’ is that he himself and his friends didn’t see Intlibber.”
    Oh so my word is no good but someone who don’t and cant use they’re own in world name word overrules mine in some way. As for your friends I’m surprised you even have any. But even if you do weak proof there Deputy Dog.

    “Dose your name Neo Citizen anything like Neo Nazi?”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

    Also, you’re dumb.

    Posted by: Zrazor Rozenstrauch | September 02, 2008 at 05:29 PM
    Zrazor I have a used car I would like to sell you if you believe everything you read online your the one that is stupid.

    “Debi Dastardly” will be somebody known to be sleeping on Tizzers Foxchase’s couch.

    Considering who you are, your word is less than worthless.
    Sorry to say I never knew her before my time and all that. but there is some reason you have such venom for people who out run you in life. If my word is worthless yours is less then worthless, I looked in world in search there is no Neo Citizen. At least Tizzers has the where with all to use the name she had in world as I do too so Mr. Generic accuser you have no word at all.
    Deb laughs this time
30. 

    Zrazor Rozenstrauch
    

    Sep 2nd, 2008
    

    “Zrazor I have a used car I would like to sell you if you believe everything you read online your the one that is stupid.”

    NO U

    Seriously, in my mind, if you bring up Nazis in a discussion not related to Nazis in any way, your points are automatically moot and you lose the argument.

    This, of course, excludes discussions that might have something to do with Nazis, such as discussions pertaining to propaganda, warfare, genocide, modern hate groups, etc.

    You brought up Nazis because whoever this guy is had the word “neo” in his name. Neo is derived from the Greek “neos” for “new.” How this or anything else being discussed pertains to national socialism in any form is beyond me, so you lose.

    Shut up, stop talking, end of story.
31. 

    IntLibber Brautigan
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    Debi has absolutely nothing to do with Woodbury, is a resident who both rents a sim from me, and also is an upstanding member of Merczateers.

    There are many residents of my sims who know me for real and know the slander and aspersions cast by the haters and competitors here are baseless, and the fact Neo jumped to conclusions about who Debi is demonstrates the complete lack of any factual basis for anything Neo has to say.

    No, its likely Neo is a member of NCI and sips the NCI kool-aid, if he/she isnt actually in NCI management.

    NCI has a nice scam going. They have this pretense of being non-profit, and provide orientation services (as if many of the rest of us do not do the same thing already), and get people to donate large sums allegedly to further that cause, but in reality the money goes to expand the estates of the head of NCI. Would not be surprised if they use their FIC influence to get sims at nonprofit rates so they can make more profit on the tier markup, so as to pay themselves more money.

    Nonprofit status only applies to the overall corp. Its a common liberal scam to run a business as a nonprofit and take all the actual profits out as personal salary.

    Why didnt I do that? Oh yea, I have ethics.
32. 

    2cents
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    I just LOVE the following category: “failure to deliver good or service”

    How about we mass AR Linden Lab for the above next time a sim goes down or you have trouble logging in? LL is notoriously bad at delivering the services they should…
33. 

    Vegna Fouroux
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    your entire arguement went out the window when you started saying things like 1.”infamous people exploition der land powers!!1111, fact: their land, their power” 2. OH HAI OUR SCIPRTERS ARE AWSUM BETR DAN THOSE GRIEFERZ” they probably aren’t N3X15 is pretty good and the point is moot anyway. “EVIIL LINDENS AND DER BUDDIES” jesus just try and apply to be a linden.

    learn the debate.
34. 

    GreenLantern Excelsior
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    Here’s the word from the (currently ongoing) GTeam meeting:

    [10:06] Zara Linden: what is your quetion green?
    [10:06] You: I have a question about the revised AR categories. There’s an ongoing discussion about that subject here:
    [10:06] You: http://secondlifeherald.com/slh/2008/09/will-ll-squeeze.html
    [10:06] You: Supposedly, one of the new Abuse Report categories is “assault in a combat sandbox or unsafe area.” Under what circumstances do you envision that a resident could write an AR using that category?
    [10:07] Kaylee Linden: green residents can write ars under any circumstance at all its how we action them thats the main thing
    [10:08] Zara Linden: we are re-visiting the list of AR categories
    [10:09] Zara Linden: the list of categories was given to the Dev team awhile back..when Chadrick was here…
    [10:09] You: Maybe I should rephrase the question. Do you envision a circumstance where a resident could be disciplined for attacking another resident in a combat enabled sim?
    [10:09] Zara Linden: I’m not sure what his thought was with the “assault in a combat sim” categories, tbh…it is likely that will be removed since it is rare to receive an AR in those sims
    [10:09] You: Ah, okay, thanks. Maybe all the drama was for nothing then.
    [10:09] You: done
    [10:10] Tengu Yamabushi: If I recall correctly, the category is there for things like chatspam bombs, replicated screamer cubes, etc.
    [10:10] Zara Linden: probably was, green
    [10:10] You: LOL
    [10:10] Kaylee Linden: like most drama is
    [10:10] Tengu Yamabushi: Why those would need a special category for the location, though, is odd.
    [10:11] Zara Linden: yes, that is correct tengu..those kind of attacks do happen in combat sims- but it is confusing to residents to list it as “assault in combat sim”…remember folks, the categories haven’t been released on main viewer- so we will certainly be revisiting the list soon
35. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    So what you’re really saying is that you’ve got her by the short hairs.

    So of course she’s leaping to your defense with this Nazi nonsense. Please.

    And we have yet another attempted potshot at – who is it now? NCI?

    Let’s enumerate the people you think of as being criminals or thugs or Evil People:

    NCI (it’s obviously a racket, because people like NCI more than they like you)
    Harry Linden (who’s on a power trip – he must be, because he kicks your ass and bans your people for violating the ToS on a regular basis)
    Plexus Linden (who’s on a power trip – he must be, because he kicks your ass and bans your people for violating the ToS on a regular basis)
    Kalel Venkman (who’s on a power trip – he must be, because he kicks your ass and bans your people for violating the ToS on a regular basis)
    Angel Fluffy (who’s on a power trip – he must be, because he wouldn’t let you commandeer Proactive Security, so you took your ball and went home)
    Maldavious Figtree (who’s your enemy because he used to work for you once but figured out what kind of a person you really are)
    Prokofy Neva (who’s on a power trip – he must be, because he kicks your ass and bans your people for violating the ToS on a regular basis)

    And I guess me, now, because I’m a thorn in your side because I have way more information about you than you even realize and have no compunction about forcing you to air your dirty laundry in public.

    This isn’t for your benefit, IntLibber. It’s for everyone else’s. This isn’t even the whole list. You’ve accused every person on this list of being an alt for every other person at one point or another. But what’s most interesting about this list is that you’ve tried to demonize every single person on it. And every single person on it is some sort of high profile civic leader well known for his or her leadership, immeasurable contributions to the community, or are representatives of Linden Lab itself.

    You’ve tried at various times to have two thirds of them banned from Second Life or fired (fortunately the people who make these sorts of decisions require actual PROOF, and so all these attempts have been pointless exercises).

    Wow, IntLibber. Jealous much?

    You like to pretend you’re a big man. You still have the opportunity to be one, but you’re going to have to start working with people instead of simply being jealous of their power and doing all these silly spy games to take people down. The worst kept secret in SL is whatever your latest personal vendetta is. You grasp at power, and people do not see your power – all they see is that you’re grasping for it.

    Anybody can pour money into the gopher hole that is Linden economics, whether they make it themselves or just borrow it from dad (every three months or so, because you’re barely making ends meet with all those sims). But as I’m sure you’re finding out, that doesn’t make you powerful. Or get you respect.
36. 

    oh lol
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    Neo is getting so funny. You think we all don’t know who these people are that you are lauding as fine upstanding citizens? Lets review the reality:

    - Prokofy Neva: has frequently made public spectacle of herself spazzing paranoiacally about Leninist Conspiracies everywhere from the JLU to the FIC to LL. Yes, she’s taken paranoia to a new level with her regular taxonomical classifications of people more successful than her as automatically FIC simply because they outperform her (including and especially wrt IntLibber, who definitely is NOT ‘feted’ by Linden Lab, he has to whip out his attorneys to get the Lindens off their fat felching furry asses).

    - Maldavius Figtree: known serial sim wrecker, abuser of group rights, mass violator of the ToS, megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur, has molested a female priest in RL, then engineered a mass nationwide 911 calling spam campaign to try to get her committed to an insane asylum so this woman wouldn’t tell his RL girlfriend about their RL affair, whose self-filming of his masturbation is now available on the intertubes.

    - Kalel Venkman: Pretends to stand for truth justice and the american way, but in fact stands for felching, yiffing, sexual ageplay and diaperfurplay. Has made RL death threats against people for trick or treating. Has repeatedly disclosed private account information about residents provided to him by g-team members.

    - Plexus: Has admitted to smoking crack on the job, regularly verbally abuses residents, discloses their private account info to other residents (Kalel), bans residents for being minors even when he knows they are adults, just so he can force them to identify themselves, and has been caught trying to frame a resident for doing something which is technically impossible.

    These are all known facts, independent of IntLibbers statements. That all these people get away with what they’re known to have done demonstrates that Harry Linden is likely also as corrupt as IntLibber says he is, and the chatlog from that g-team meeting where Socrates blankly stated there was no policy against the name Tizzers, only to see a Tizzers get permbanned minutes later in the same sim is illustrative that Int may actually be right, despite what even the most ardent LL disciples would like the rest of us to think.
37. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    You’ll have to do much better than that, IntLibber – just because you’ve manage to fool yourself into believe all this amazing crap doesn’t mean you’re fooling anybody else.

    What we all see is somebody who’s reaching the end of his rope – wildly and blindly striking out at anything and everything, whether it’s in reach or not.

    Yes, it’s transparently you, and yes, you’re very obviously foaming at the brain.

    Would we like these wild, amazing statements posted where your investors and renters can actually see them? How about we send them to the accounting department at Woodbury and see what happens next?
38. 

    Spleen Difference
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    Funny Natok Dryke, known griefer, content thief, rl hacker says he is a Jew. He is very much a German national and not a jew. He is, though, a liar and griefer.
39. 

    Debi Dastardly
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    @m Neo Citizen:
    Little boy or girl you will never have me by the shorthairs as long as you hide behind the mask of anonymity. You like to think you are someone to point fingers from behind a curtain and that we the rest of the world is to stupid to question you validity in anything you say. “Wow, IntLibber. Jealous much?” Wow Neo you really must be the fact that you keep coming back to this thread and trying to slander people is evidence to most everyone that reads this that you are defiantly jealous of someone successful.
    As for me I stand by my word in my own in world name. You really want to convince people that you are right then heres what you do. #1 post in your in world name from now on #2 where is al this proof that what you are saying is true? You accuse Intlibber of doing and saying without proof but yet you show us none that what you say is true.
    Here is something you need to do watch the Wizard of Oz again. Take notice of the part where the great and powerful Oz is behind the curtain working the controls to the scary monster and when he is detected the first thing he says is don’t pay any attention to the guy behind the curtain. Even as a child that wasn’t lost on me that the great and powerful Oz was a fake. He as only a cheap side show magician that had people fool from behind the curtain. Well he didn’t for long because he was found out. Most of us learned this lesson long ago when we were children from movies like this and what our parents taught us. You must really think your fellow man and woman is lower then you in intelligence. And it must come as a shock to you to find out that we are not as stupid as your little mind has thought we are.
    You say you are forcing Intlibber to air his laundry ha ha that is laughable . All that we are seeing is a sad little man make a shinning jack ass of himself. Once again loser where is your proof?
    Wake up Toto you are not in Kansas anymore
    Deb Laughs again
40. 

    Debi Dastardly
    

    Sep 3rd, 2008
    

    One correction to my last post:
    “So what you’re really saying is that you’ve got her by the short hairs.”-Neo Citizen
    no Neo fake he don’t need to he is just a dear friend. Something that you have very few of I’m sure.
    Deb Smiles
41. 

    Neo Citizen
    

    Sep 4th, 2008
    

    I’m sure, a very dear friend. He’s got lots of friends. He’s paid a lot for them, and is constantly bragging about it behind their backs.

    Why yes, I am forcing him to air his dirty laundry. Just look at IntLibber’s last several posts for the proof of it, woman, for God’s sake. He’s a hothead, and he goads SO EASILY. He’s identified several people with whom he’s had some sort of conflict in which he’s ended up on the dirty end of the stick, and it’s been very helpful in my research. I’ve found out quite a lot of new material as a result, and his various reveals over the past week or so have been instrumental.

    There’ll be proof. I’ve given everything I have to a number of people I know in-world. At least two of them have promised to act, and added information of their own to what I had.

    Oh, and nice try.

    I’m certainly not going to violate my anonymity just to satisfy your curiosity. You’re really quite clumsy at this.
42. 

    Sigmund Leominster
    

    Sep 4th, 2008
    

    It must be close to election time because I notice folks are slipping into “ad hominem” mode here. Nothing better than taking potshots at the individuals involved in a discussion so as to avoid the actual topic I don’t give a monkey’s about celebrity-du-jour Sarah Palin’s private life unless there’s a picture that includes nudity. Sexist? Moi?

    I notice that Zara Linden did, in fact, say, “…those kind of attacks do happen in combat sims – but it is confusing to residents to list it as ‘assault in combat sim’…remember folks, the categories haven’t been released on main viewer- so we will certainly be revisiting the list soon.”

    I suggest we – and by that slippery pronoun I mean any residents who care – make sure that the folks on the Governance team continue to focus on the fine tuning of the categories so as to avoid mistakes and misunderstandings. If the intent is to stop the more general type of abuse, then it makes no sense to have a separate “Assault > Combat sandbox / unsafe area” category. Much better to use the “Harassment > Whatever” category. “Assault” strikes me as being more physical (pushing/shooting/orbiting etc.). So being pushed in a safe area would warrant an “Assault > Safe Area” but being pushed in a Combat zone wouldn’t.

    It’s all about definitions. Just make sure you (and this time I use the pronoun to mean the individual actually reading this) contribute your suggestion on the categories to the governance team. I’m not sure just voicing your concerns here will do much good – except for your ego
43. 

    Debi Dastardly
    

    Sep 4th, 2008
    

    No you wont reveal your in world name because you know you are not telling the truth and you have your own sinister reason for saying what you do NEO FAKE you are such a wimp
    And by the way he has never paid me or anybody else I know.
    Deb laughs at the Neo Boy
44. 

    Debi Dastardly
    

    Sep 4th, 2008
    

    @ Neo Citizen:
    Wheres the proof?
    you still haven’t answered me
45. 

    LAWL
    

    Sep 4th, 2008
    

    Nothing is going to change. Intlibber and his friends are just going to piss off the Lindens by making an issue of it. This situation is like someone screaming “Fire!” because someone lit a match. Absolutely ridiculous.

    Also, SHUT UP EYE.

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