Op/Ed: Asking for it

by Jessica Holyoke on 24/04/09 at 2:23 pm

by Jessica Holyoke

A friend of mine used to joke that you can't rape the willing.  It was a silly statement that is fundamentally true.  You can't rape the willing.  The act and crime involves a lack of consent for sex.  That consent can be either taken by force, induced chemically or statutorily unable to be given. So the words "consentual rape" is an oxymoron that confuses people. 

On Second Life, we have consentual rape and slavery, especially on Gor.   And people have asked me how I can take part in a role playing game that features both.  I have even read blog posts linking the ideas of Gorean slavery with real life slavery. 

Besides the many different issues involved between the two concepts, Gorean role play slavery is not an economically exploitive one for example, (and I have spoken out and tried to correct Gorean exploitive slavery before) the main difference between the two is consent.  Even real life Gorean relationships where the woman calls herself a slave at least starts with her consenting to enter the relationship and is absolutely not the same thing as someone enslaved anywhere else on our real world.

But in my almost three years on Second Life, the issue of consent for these activities have been mostly ignored.  Commentators usually say that you don't have to stay on the Sim if there is rape content, and that is what is actually being banned when the Lab says no depictions of rape, its a content ban.  A resident can either teleport away or log off.  But consent to that content is more fundamental. The participants are asking for it and there is no such thing as a victim of rape in SL.

In real life, rapists force their victims to go along.  In Second Life, the victim has to willingly go along with what is happening. We have seen the vignettes where there is an attacker and a victim.  The attacker can't place the victim on the victim pose ball.  The victim has to right click and sit in order to be attacked.  And with an animation, you have to be immersed enough that seeing your avatar be raped is the same thing as you being raped, even though you right clicked on the ball.

Then there is the roleplay aspect.  When you are on Gor, participants further the storyline by someone typing out the text describing what is going on; someone binding your hands or bringing you a drink and food are all typed out in detail to move the action along.  The same thing happens in rape scenarios but it involves both the attacker and the victim.  This is a simple re-enactment.

ATTACKER forcibly removes your clothes, cutting them loose from your body while keeping the fibers tied tightly around your hands and feet.

VICTIM cries out, trying to cover her body as she rolls tied up on the ground.

And at this point, the victim would have removed her clothes, so long as she consented to the rape.  There is a common roleplay limit for Gorean roleplayers that they do not take part in rape but would act as if they were raped if that is where the roleplay goes.  This is what it looks like if the victim does not take part;

ATTACKER forcibly removes your clothes, cutting them loose from your body while keeping the fibers tied tightly around your hands and feet.

NOT A VICTIM: So this is what you do all day?

ATTACKER ((you need to remove your clothes now and accept the bindings))

NOT A VICTIM well, why should I have to do it if you're taking them off? I'm not helping you. 

Slavery is the same way on Gor and is nothing at all like being enslaved in real life.  Cutting out all the ceremony possibilities, either willfully submitting or being force collared, a new slave has to: 1.  Accept the collar being sent to them by clicking 'yes'; 2. Attach the collar to their avatar; 3.  Set the Owner to the new Owner; and 4.  Keep the collar on.  Yes, there are social constraints but its not at all like a real life situation of rape or slavery.

Consent changes everything.  Two men punching their brains out would normally be illegal but put boxing gloves on and put them in a ring, and that's sport.  Someone sticking a knife into you would be arrested, unless you're in a hospital.  And someone placing a band of metal on you, declaring that you are theirs forever would be prosecuted, unless its during a wedding ceremony. 

33 Responses to “Op/Ed: Asking for it”

  1. LOL

    Apr 24th, 2009

    Is this a god damn joke? I have read more intresting material on the back of the shampoo bottle while taking a shit.

  2. Jumpman Lane

    Apr 24th, 2009

    hehehehe say what ya will goreeens are still TARDS! you cant whitewash that! my only objection to it.

  3. Adric Antfarm

    Apr 24th, 2009

    Look, if they have to mark it as a joke or not that sort of makes them feel bad they are attracting such a sad demographic.

    I’m not going to pimp my site here since that is in poor taste, but at some other site I wrote about going to a rape area to see how sick those people were and ended realizing what a hypocrite I was. Long story. Dream up the middle.

  4. MachineCode

    Apr 24th, 2009

    Here’s a scenario.

    Just to be a total asshole, I learn a little bit about Gorean books or whateverthehell and then become a “slave.” After basically clicking balls and then tabbing out to do something else, I suddenly decide to teleport away and build a table to ironically launch out of a really tiny gun. When the stupid Gorean maestros decide they are insulted by me not being a good little tardlet, I say something as the following.

    “you guys are so stupid stop talking damn”

    What kind of behavior would you classify that as?

    I would call that exactly what all these mentally deprived “slaves” should be doing.

  5. Gershom

    Apr 24th, 2009

    > And someone placing a band of metal on you, declaring that you are theirs forever would be prosecuted, unless its during a wedding ceremony.

    I hadn’t thought of it in these terms before, but that is an apt description. And she does promise to love, honor, and obey. That is a bit like a slave.

    Of course she can run away and/or get a divorce.

  6. Chav

    Apr 25th, 2009

    Your Gor apologetics are old and boring.

  7. Orion

    Apr 25th, 2009

    At the risk of getting pummeled by Satan again… THANK YOU Jessica! Finally someone who gets it!

  8. yep

    Apr 25th, 2009

    yep, somebody has some real internal demons chasing them there. I don’t know if exposure to Second Life twists up the minds of normal people like that, or if Second Life just attracts a bunch of demented, naturally twisted fucks. I think they were trying to justify the Gor lifestyle in that above rant outta nowhere, while at the same time being ashamed of it. The weirdest part about it is just how seriously they seem to have wrapped themselves around their problem, like they dont know that SL and Gor is all a joke and they should really be working on RL job skills that involve thinking and building and creating and being successfully independant instead of some kind of slave slut.

  9. Satan

    Apr 25th, 2009


    No, you don’t get it. She’s right about everything she said but the act of simulating and obsessing with rape is unhealthy and people doing it will eventually rape someone if they continue to entertain the compulsion. We aren’t talking about casual experimenting.

  10. Corona anatine

    Apr 25th, 2009

    the point is valid and is one I agree with
    however it is equally true to say that this should apply to any activity between consenting adults

    if as some claim the roleplay of pedophilia or rape encourages the player to want to try it in real life
    then the same applies to Gor/slavery (and there are rL examples of this)or anything else

    if its all just consenual fantasy – does anyone have the right to say activity ‘A’ is acceptable while activity ‘B’ is not?
    it is all just cultural
    even pedophilia is a modern concept whihc is not universal across the world
    same with gambling – sL sets the rules by USA law
    if US law is the determining critera for what is allowed then gor slavery ought to be banned also
    while I dont agree with sexual age play and find it disteful I dont feel anyone has the right to attack others for that or anything else they want to play
    what is say about them as a person in real life and why they want to indulge in such fantasies is another matter
    But LL is in a postion where it could allow sexaul age play and then pass the personal details of any in such groups to the appropriate RL authorities for their assement /consideration

  11. Corona anatine

    Apr 25th, 2009

    judge others by what they do in RL not their SL fantasies

  12. Stephie

    Apr 25th, 2009

    No one cares about Gor or the people RPing it’s rape fetish.

  13. Scylla

    Apr 25th, 2009

    Ok, let’s accept that a simulation of rape in SL is not the same as a real rape. There are all sorts of good reasons to concede this, beyond the fairly crude and reductive argument you give here. Let’s add a little bit of nuance, however. Do you really believe that physical violence is the only form of compulsion available to a would-be abuser? Is there anyone who has been in SL more than a week who has not met someone, male or female, who is being victimized and coerced in other ways, as for example through emotional manipulation and blackmail? What of the woman who has unwisely released too much information about her RL, and may, in fact, be afraid of RL reprisals for saying no, including harassment or even assault? Whether we choose to call it “rape,” or something else, “consent” in such cases has not, in fact, really been given. And, sadly, I suspect, those who are most attracted to RPing subs are probably precisely those who are most vulnerable to this kind of coercion.

    Consent, however, is really something of a red herring. The real is issue is the impact of representing rape, and other forms of sexual violence, in SL; such representations are really a form of extreme pornography, rendered even more dangerous because of the element of RP. And whether “consent” is given willingly or not, every time a woman clicks on the “accept” button in such scenarios, she is implicitly reinforcing the old hackneyed stereotype that women, in SL or by extension in RL, really “like” rough play, and fantasize about being raped. Of course, women who fantasize about rape do not REALLY want to be raped. But can we really trust that this key point is always clear to the man (or woman) who is turned on by this kind of sexual violence?

  14. Bunny Brickworks

    Apr 25th, 2009

    I think the subject of ‘rape’, ‘forced sex RP’ or whatever you might want to call it, has been chewed to death in all SL-related media – blogs, plurk, flickr… If two adult people agree to role play forced sex it is NOT rape. Rape requires the ‘victim’ to NOT agree to the sexual act. I am tired of women screaming ‘rape’ as soon as a noob sticks his freebie prim part into their faces.

    Though I personally find this kind of RP a little sick and consider Goreans the greatest plague in SL, I do what adult, tolerant and intelligent people do when something bothers them: I stay away from those places. I don’t visit Gorean sims or stores and when they show up at public places, I simply mute them. Just like in consensual sex RP I have the choice. Thanks for beating this subject to death…

  15. Alyx Stoklitsky

    Apr 25th, 2009

    Did you seriously just try to explain to us that Gorean slaves aren’t really slaves, and are just perverts who get off on being treated like a bitch?

    Thank you, captain obvious.

  16. MachineCode

    Apr 25th, 2009

    I stepped away from the way I would normally comment.

    This Opinion/Editorial and others like it are masking a much deeper issue, which is why you’re arguing over the legality of make-believe sexual acts rather than arguing over what madness is required for people to have sex on the internet.

    You should be creating floating platforms and goals and games and objectives and something that requires REAL imagination. Instead people are exploiting animations that someone else created to watch their avatars doing… things.

    It’s a higher order of STUPID.

  17. Orion

    Apr 25th, 2009

    **Puts on a Dictator Linden costume, climbs up on a rickety old soap box, then starts screming out over the croud**

    “Your attention please! We’ve been concerned about the recent decline of morality on the grid. How many of you think age play is bad?”

    **Resounding roar**

    “Ok, BANNED” – suddenly the crowd thins out a bit as all the child avatars disappear.

    “How many think rape play and forced fantasy is bad?”

    **Resounding roar**

    “Ok, BANNED” – crowd thins out more as all the rape players disappear.

    “How about virtual sex? Any objections?”

    **Another resounding roar**

    “BANNED” – crowd thins even more as all the sex players disappear.

    “How about furries? Anyone find those objectionable?”

    **Loud roar from the crowd**

    “Gone – no more furries.” – crowd thins yet even more as all the furries disappear from the grid.

    “How about role play? Anyone offended by horror, violence, blood and gore?”

    **Slightly less or a roar from the now rather sparse crowd**

    “Ok, banned.” – even more disappear.

    “Combat, weapons? Anyone offended by combat and weapons?”

    **A few hoots and hollers from the remaining few.**

    “Ok, no more combat!” – a few more disappear as support for physical bullets and projectiles is removed.

    “Now how about religion? Anyone have a problem with religion on the grid?”

    **A few screams going back and forth between different religious groups.**

    “Ok, we’ll have none of that! BANNED!” – more of the remaining crowd poofs off into oblivion.

    “Anatomically correct avatar skins and revealing clothing? Anyone have a problem with those?”

    **Screaming and yelling more clear now from whats left of the crowd – “PORN – SMUT!”

    “Ok, only default skin now! No more nipples or pubic patches!” – the remaining skin and clothing makers in the crowd vaporize into nothing as everyone suddenly defaults to their noobie skins.

    “Curse words? Anyone have a problem with those?”

    **A few hand raising animations played from the the now diminished crowd**

    “Gone.” – The rest of the crowd with their hands not raised disappears.

    **Dictator Linden scans over what is now an almost empty field inhabited by all but a few sparse clusters of people. His chat echoing through the empty world as he shouts:**

    “Any more issues? Anyone?”

    **The remaining few of the crowd look around, realizing there’s nothing left to do – whats left of the world abandoned and now decimated. Half of the remaining crowd disappears, leaving in disgust. One person shouts back:**

    “Thanks Dictator! The world is now clean and pure!”

    Dictator responds: “You’re welcome! We’ll be releasing our new community standards in the morning.”

    **Suddenly the person thanking Dictator disappears – banned for expressing a possibly religious opinion.**

    The following day a mass email is sent to all users from Dictator Linden which reads:

    “Second Life is a world based on the creativity and the freedom of its users. However Effective immediately, all adult content of any form is hereby banned. This includes any sexual or provocative animations, anatomically correct skins or attachments, and any form of revealing or provocative clothing or hair. Only the default animations, skins, and clothing provided by Linden Lab may be used. In addition, any groups, chat, notecards, or images having to do with anything of a sexual, adult, or otherwise controversial nature is hereby forbidden. This includes anything of a religious nature. Private messages and inventory passes between users will now be monitored to prevent the distribution and discussion of such materials. Any such infraction of these community standards will result in the permanent and irrevocable removal of your account.”

    This is what happens when you allow a society (virtual or real) to become overwhelmed with blind hatred and ignorance. When tolerance for differing views are tossed out the window and replaced with misinformed judgments and public lynchings. Campaigns of fear, uncertainty, and doubt become common place, just as whats going on right here and now, and just as they did within the fascist regimes back in WWII.

    If that’s the kind of world you all want to play in then so be it. Have fun being bored out of your minds while watching the grass grow. I’ll be off in my own little world having some real fun while getting probed and raped by tentacled aliens with dog heads and human bodies from Mars. Once again, fuck you ignoramus idiots from SL. :)

  18. Satan

    Apr 25th, 2009


    Dude, you’re one of the dumbest people I have spoken to online. You still don’t get it. No one is talking about banning your sick shit mmkay. Jesus christ how long did it take you to write that 20 page useless post that is completely irrelevant anyways? Typical furry.

  19. durr

    Apr 26th, 2009


  20. Why, Orion! You have painted a lovely picture indeed…this is the ultimate goal of the Second Life League of Decency (SLOD)™. We will have a grid pure of filth, cleansed of all forms of depravity and poor taste, safe for uplifting activities such as collecting bone china and exchanging sonnets about our flower-gardens.

    You only forgot that all IMs and Notecards will be subject to review before reaching their destination, and all chat will be watched by a team of Linden Beadles™ vetted by SLOD and equipped with the Expunge-O-Matic™ permaban system.

    I, of course, stand ready to be your ever-attentive Dictator™ to flush out the septic-tank called Second Life™.

  21. LOL

    Apr 26th, 2009

    Puts down the shampoo bottle and picks up the conditioner bottle for more intresting reading

  22. Jessica Holyoke

    Apr 26th, 2009

    I’m not sure why I am being apologetic for Gor, because that would mean that Gor has done something that needs apologizing. Its something I take part in, and I write about it for a number of reasons, not least of which is write what you know.

    I’m not sure if I wrote this on the last rapist article or not, but if someone is spending 100% of their SL time doing rape fantasies, that might mean that they are spending 1 hour a month doing rape fantasies. Not everyone lives on here.

    If I didn’t see people comparing gor and the other broadly offensive content on SL with real life slavery and rape, I wouldn’t have wrote this article.

    If I was ashamed of myself for enjoying being a kajira, then I would be using an alt.

    I’ve been on Gor in one form or another since December of 2006 and I have yet to be raped or to witness a rape. And a lot of people on Gor have ‘no rape’ as a roleplay limit. Not everyone on Gor is there for the same reasons. No one would know that if no one wrote about it.

    But there are three comments that I wanted to address directly;

    While it is entirely your choice to mute whomever you wish, I think its an extreme tack to take that you would mute someone simply because of the roleplay they engage in. Yes, if BDSM interactions annoy you, then muting them is probably the best answer. But you said you mute them on sight, not if they interact. Don’t you think that’s prejudiced?


    Not everyone comes onto SL for the same reasons. And there are people who become members of the community that don’t have sex at all. But why I write about the sexual side of SL is because for many people it is liberating. If you have a sexual side of you that you can’t share elsewhere, but you can share online with people that think like you do, that sense of community is very important.

    Which brings me to Scylla,

    No one is saying that people cannot be victimized on SL. It has happened before and will happen again. But roleplaying isn’t the same thing as victimization. You don’t need the roleplay to be victimized. I’m saying that the rape roleplay that everyone is complaining about cannot be equated to rl rape or its participants. You do seem to be making an argument that women should not engage as the victims in roleplay because you don’t know if the person on the other side will take it too far in RL. But that’s true of any relationship ever. No one starts a marriage thinking their spouse is going to beat them or if they are going to turn out to be psychotic. And its a very specious argument to say that in order to prevent some person who you can’t identify as a rapist you should not indulge your fantasies in an online world where you have control.

  23. MachineCode

    Apr 26th, 2009

    Disassembling SL as we know it?


  24. Satan

    Apr 26th, 2009


    Clearly you lack understanding of the human mind. Someone who enjoys simulating torture (ie rape) and other acts that inflict pain on others clearly has a sick mind. People who do not have a predisposition to committing violent acts are not going to spend their time acting those out in gory detail in a virtual world or anywhere else. Ask any reputable psychologist and I’ll bet everything I own they will concur. And I’ll take the word of a professional with a doctorate over some random second lifer any day. Normal people do not get turned on sexually by inflicting pain on other people (or by imagining that they are). That’s sick. People who do are sadistic and when they rationalize their behavior by saying ‘it’s only virtual rape’ they begin entertaining their sadistic tendencies which will typically manifest with real world violence at some point if they persist.

    The people who like simulating getting raped are weird, but I don’t see how those ones can be perceived as a threat like their counterparts.

    No one is arguing about the fact that we shouldn’t ban or arrest people who haven’t committed real crimes yet but their attitudes about horrific violent acts DO warrant concern.

  25. Satan

    Apr 26th, 2009

    BTW I don’t compare Gor with rl slavery at all. E-slavery or whatever and BDSM are totally different from simulating rape (though I feel similarly about the BDSM shit as someone who gets off on hurting people is trouble IMO).

    The gorean slave shit just isn’t the same thing. I think what it boils down to is the level of detail. Is a person REALLY simulating the act of rape in horrifying detail or is what they’re doing totally unrealistic and not really so much focused on actually getting off on torturing another person or even torturing another person at all. Sometimes I wonder if you guys are throwing around the word ‘rape’ too casually without really understanding what it means to simulate rape. Maybe you’re not doing what I would consider simulating rape. Dunno but when someone talks about simulating rape I think it’s terrible and I seriously question the sanity of that person.

  26. Scylla

    Apr 27th, 2009

    Thanks for your response to my comments Jessica. I am far from disagreeing with much of what you say here: roleplaying is certainly not the same as victimization, and rape roleplay (as I more or less concede in my first sentence) is nothing like real rape, even where some element of coercion and victimization is present. And yes, you don’t need to roleplay to be victimized.

    But when the particular role that you are playing IS that of a victim, I think there is a much higher risk of victimization and, as importantly, of relatively greater emotional damage. Defenders of simulations and role playing like Gor tend to talk in terms of it as a powerfully liberating experience. I can accept that. But the knife is double-edged: if it can be powerfully liberating, it also has that much more potential to be powerfully damaging. Combining two of the most powerful emotional stimulants — violence and sex — together produces a very potent mixture indeed. I’m sure it is a very positive experience for many. But, conversely, the emotional trauma that this kind of simulated sexualized violence can potentially do untold harm. I have, in fact, known some of its victims.

    As regards the potential rapist on the other end of the chat line, I think I was trying to suggest (obviously not very successfully) that the societal effects of reinforcing stereotypes about women and rape (“she wanted it,” “she likes it rough”) are what are most dangerous about this kind of role play. I DO frankly worry a little about the kind of man who gets off on simulating a violent assault on a woman, but I am not about to go so far as to suggest that such a man is necessarily a potential RL rapist.

    The real threat lies elsewhere. We have fought VERY long and hard to change cultural attitudes about women as passive victims. It’s an important fight, as I am sure you will agree, because it HAS made a difference in terms of attitudes towards things like RL sexual assault. Unfortunately, I think that RP rape is a step backwards in this regard; it implies by its very nature a return to the thinking of the “good old days” when men were men, and women were often, and with very good reason, afraid.

  27. *facepalms* 2.0

    Apr 27th, 2009

    Jessica is the only person left on the Herald with anything to say worth reading since they chased Penance away. Though maybe that says Jessica is a bigger masochist. Still, good reads every time from Jessica, and a good point most of the time. I do think it IS possible for abusive manipulative people to weed out the weak-minded or emotionally scarred who have serious issues saying no, even online, because of deep seeded self-esteem issues that make them vulnerable. Oh and Bunny Brickworks is a clique bitch idiot with a 2 IQ, glad to see she’s been replaced for Post 6. Maybe now we’ll get more unique interesting model choices. Also, Gor is fail. Also, furries aren’t so bad, just the loud preachy ones suck. Like Christians and Muslims. Most are great people, but the loud ones suck ass.

    Go Jessica, you’re the lasy vestige of worthwhile humanity at this bottom feeding shitrag of epic fail.

  28. Orion

    Apr 27th, 2009

    @ Satan – **Twirls a finger at the griefer basement dweller posing as an expert.** Whatever, you and your pot toking buddies enjoy your clean and pure little world. But if I were you I wouldn’t expect LL to keep flitting the bill after everyone gets fed up and calls it quits with all you wahoos crying sicko on anything and everything that doesn’t fit your narrow minded definition of “normal”.

  29. Jahar Aabye

    Apr 27th, 2009

    You know, people roleplay “forced” fantasies in RL too. Plenty of RL couples have played around with handcuffs or rope or other restraints, gags, blindfolds. My guess is that even if you, personally, do not own or use any of these items, the couple next door probably do. From a statistical standpoint, I’d bet that someone on your block almost certainly does.

    My point is that roleplaying “forced” fantasies in RL is fairly commonplace (or maybe my friends are just kinkier than yours, dunno). Maybe it’s unhealthy, but the basic archetypal fantasy does seem to be a common one for many people. The difference is that when your neighbors (and I’m sure that *someone* on your block does) use handcuffs or enact various similar fantasies in their bedroom, you don’t see it. In SL, these fantasies are more anonymous, but at the same time somewhat more public. Also, unlike in RL, the “immersion” of SL might cause some people to see this roleplaying as being somehow more “realistic” than fooling around in RL (which is rather ironic).

    So in RL, when someone does this, we laugh it off as “damn, those two have one wild relationship,” but in SL, because we don’t see these same people wearing suits and ties the next day, or dropping their kids off at school, or any other mundane activities, it’s easier to think that these are just freaks and deviants and not that nice couple next door.

    They are.

    It’s your boss, your secretary, your kids’ teacher at school, your refrigerator repairman, your auto mechanic, the waiter at the restaurant last night….

    Hell, might even be your wife, late at night after you’ve gone to sleep, wishing that you would be just a little more assertive in bed and not such a pussy.

    But then again, maybe that’s why this seems to piss some people off, eh?

  30. MachineCode

    Apr 27th, 2009

    Your rationale for this article and its comments, then, is “this is the internet, and we can argue about the most pointless subjects until our minds go numb.”

    That doesn’t mean you can’t yourself to a slightly higher standard…

  31. Kant's Bulldog

    Apr 29th, 2009

    The philosophical implications of somebody making a conscious choice to simulate rape are abhorrent, and the evolved ethos of the species homo sapiens sapiens will consistently object to this behavior, as rapists are likely not selectively favorable. How many of you Gorean roleplayers would tell everyone you know in rl what you do online? You won’t, because there would be consequences, and there are consequences because most human beings have evolved to reject such behaviors. The real problem with SL is the lack of a concrete social contract, and the absence of natural selection which would act to reduce such unsavory behavior. Matter has organized into life, and it isn’t God who says you are sick, it is the electrostatic force.


    Apr 30th, 2009

    “The philosophical implications of somebody making a conscious choice to simulate rape are abhorrent, and the evolved ethos of the species homo sapiens sapiens will consistently object to this behavior, as rapists are likely not selectively favorable. How many of you Gorean roleplayers would tell everyone you know in rl what you do online? You won’t, because there would be consequences, and there are consequences because most human beings have evolved to reject such behaviors. The real problem with SL is the lack of a concrete social contract, and the absence of natural selection which would act to reduce such unsavory behavior. Matter has organized into life, and it isn’t God who says you are sick, it is the electrostatic force.”

    WoW! Well put! Superbly written! Truly profound!
    Now I’m being totally serious here when I say this..but it is entries like this one that are truly staggering! Seriously!
    In the anals of internet history, one could only hope that this site would end with the very last ever blog entry mimicking something of this magnitude.

    Problem is, it won’t happen…ROFLMAO

  33. Infernal

    May 2nd, 2009

    Really? You people are STILL bitching about how Gor is sick, or Furries are sick, or people participating in shooting guns are sick? You guys rock, really, its just like Rule 34, a corollary to Rule 34, if you can think of it, and porn of it exists on the Internet, then some whining loser on the Internet will complain.

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