A View from the Back: The Hard Alley Protest
by Jessica Holyoke on 30/11/09 at 11:23 pm
by Jessica Holyoke
As previously reported, as part of the 16 Days against Gender Violence, a variety of groups, SL Left Unity, Feminists, and Stop Violence Against Women, (disclosure: I am a member of the latter two) descended on Second Life perennial popular area Hard Alley in order to protest the rape role play on display there.
Counts of the number of protesters vary, but after witnessing a variety of protests on the Second Life(r) grid, this one was, at least in the beginning, about average in attendance. Half an hour into the protest, 37 people were counted as part of the protest.
While the protesters, some in cooked ham avatars, marched the streets of Hard Alley, with signs listing the roles women have in life, mother, daughter, granddaughter, either suggesting that those women aren't sexual or for the male participants to think of their mothers and daughters when taking part or Reclaim the Night.
But the protesters went on, basically following the script of the press release said Scylla Rhiadra, "Rape play desensitize users to the violence that they represent; they 'normalize' the rape and sexual abuse of women by asserting that these things are not merely 'fun,' but also sexually arousing"… "Any activity that trivializes or seems to validate real life violence of women is intolerable."… "This protest is being staged to make it clear that our society should not, indeed must not, tolerate it."
Those gathered around but not part of the protest had different ideas.
When asked about the protest, Tommy Classito stated that "it's a fair point but you're not going to achieve much to be honest, both male and females come here for one purpose and I doubt anyone would belittle the idea of real life rape. I understand the concerns but it's a two way street when it comes to role play and if two consenting adults make that choice then it's of no business to anyone else."
A few on-lookers entered the protest as soon as they determined what the purpose of the protesters were.
One onlooker, Dream Scientist, approached the protesters, asking why if both parties are coming in to play at violence and sex, then how is it contributing to conducting real life violence? He also mentioned how many women come in consensually to the sim and use the retrained life viewer to enhance the experience. UndoneChaos Enoch countered with the fact that many women came at the last minute to protest the sim, showing that sims like Hard Alley are wrong.
As the protesters made their way around the sim, one protester gave voice to her anger over the roleplay taking place there. Said Lisabeth Nikolaidis, "Stop making women into toys for violence and degradation," "No one has to do this to be loved or to be satisfied," "Are you satisfied?"
Scylla Rhiadra
Dec 1st, 2009
Jessica, thank you for this very balanced account of the protest: it does much to help put the story that first appeared in Herald into context. I am particularly pleased that you spend some time discussing the discussions and exchanges that occurred between the protesters and those using the sim; initiating such exchanges was a major goal of the protest. There were of course those in the sim who were less than tolerant of our presence there, but overall, I was impressed by the willingness of many to engage us in civil conversation about our objections to this kind of role playing. And that, really, was what this was about: reconsidering and debating the impact of this kind of role play.
Darkfoxx
Dec 1st, 2009
I personally see nothing wrong with a little bit of fun roleplay whatever kind of roleplay it is. This doesnt mean that i dont mind these kinds of things in RL, real rape, murder or violence is indeed something never to be tolerated, no matter gender. I have to say that were the protest not only against rape and violence against women but men as well it would have been better. That said, this protest does feel wrong to me. In a virtual, play pretend world, noone should have the right to tell others what to do or not do, or what they should like or think. I personally enjoy a little rape roleplay, as the victim. I would never want to be raped in reality however, but that goes without saying, there is a world of difference between reality and fantasy. I would join this protest if it were against RL rape and violence. But i dont agree with this protest. Your world your imagination also means other people’s world and their imagination. Wherever their imagination takes them.
All Seeeing Eye
Dec 1st, 2009
Yes stop all this horrid making of girls into toys. Especially when you can buy them from Japan.
http://www.hemmy.net/images/design/sexdolls09.jpg
http://mrbadak.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/japanese-dolls.jpg
Never again will anyone think SL addicts are odd with that sort of shit going on in meatspace.
Oh I know instead of protesting Linden Lab’s CEO working to kill SL and LL allowing and promoting copybot as “legitimate use viewers” all these activists are going to go look stupid at a sex joint. BTW some people like pain. A lot. It’s their “thing”. Like useless protests are a hobby of people that are sad sacks because they missed the 60′s so they chase the G8 trucks barking at the wheels of capitalism. I.e.; attention whores.
LittleLostLinden
Dec 1st, 2009
Holy Ham.
To each his or her own I like to say. If some women enjoy violent sex, let them have their violent sex and violent sex dreams and realities. Some women probably think it is a turn on just as much as the men do. Let’s protest bots and campers instead, as they are hurting SL more than a couple hardcore roleplay sims.
Poe Zepp
Dec 1st, 2009
I don’t care what people do in their bedroom or roleplay sim-seriously don’t care how kinky things get so long as I don’t have to be subjected to it without being asked or warned first. My beef is when the morons can’t break character when they go out in public and shop. Sorry but I don’t want to see you dragging your pet around on a leash or see someone squatting on the ground. Grow the hell up.
Because it belittles your lifestyle choices and it belittles others who wish not to see your lifestyle. To me those who don’t know how to act in general public are more than anything the attention seeking whores. Turn about for a change with those protesters is a b***h eh? Well maybe it will make someone think twice about performing kink in public.
Darien Caldwell
Dec 1st, 2009
A big step forward for people everywhere who like to Roleplay as Protesters.
Inniatzo
Dec 1st, 2009
I don’t doubt the sincerity of the protesters, or the seriousness of this issue. When I was in college (early 90s) this, along with alcohol, was a significant issue. I am well aware of that.
And yet SL is fantasy. Whether one wants to be incredibly good looking with great clothes, or a vampire or a dragon or live in a castle or…and on and on. We pretend! And the reality is many women have fantasies where they are taken by a stranger. It may be imagining a sudden burst of passion with a sexy stranger, perhaps while voicing a reluctance at first, but really wanting him to keep going. It could be imagining be kidnapped by someone overwhelmed with desire. It could be an abduction to a planet where women are a commodity to be bought and sold. It could be being a sex slave and wanting your owner to have total control.
And on and on. The reality of sexual assault is terrible and no woman wants that. But the reality is that many (I would say most) of us have had fantasies of being taken against our will in some way.
Many of us do have these thoughts and fantasies. We just do. Maybe the women protesting never have such fantasies, or maybe they think the reality of actual rape is so terrible (which it is) that these thoughts are irrelevant and even pretending to do these things in a virtual world should be stopped. But if they doubt that such fantasies exist in normal, non-insane women then they are simply wrong.
This is not a secret. Check page seven of this NYT Magazine article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?_r=1
“we talked about erotic — as opposed to aversive — fantasies of rape. According to an analysis of relevant studies published last year in The Journal of Sex Research, an analysis that defines rape as involving “the use of physical force, threat of force, or incapacitation through, for example, sleep or intoxication, to coerce a woman into sexual activity against her will,” between one-third and more than one-half of women have entertained such fantasies, often during intercourse, with at least 1 in 10 women fantasizing about sexual assault at least once per month in a pleasurable way.”
“The appeal is, above all, paradoxical, Meana pointed out: rape means having no control, while fantasy is a domain manipulated by the self. She stressed the vast difference between the pleasures of the imagined and the terrors of the real. “I hate the term ‘rape fantasies,’ ” she went on. “They’re really fantasies of submission.” She spoke about the thrill of being wanted so much that the aggressor is willing to overpower, to take. “But ‘aggression,’ ‘dominance,’ I have to find better words. ‘Submission’ isn’t even a good word” — it didn’t reflect the woman’s imagining of an ultimately willing surrender.”
The first sentence of that second paragraph is what SL is about: a fantasy of a loss of control in virtual world where we have all the control.
Sexual assault in reality is a terrible, horrible thing. But SL isn’t reality. These protesters should direct their efforts out there, in the real world, and let people who want to play adult games play them.
Megz
Dec 1st, 2009
Why is this even news? But once again…thanks for the free advertising. Money couldn’t buy this. <3
Scylla Rhiadra
Dec 1st, 2009
@Darkfoxx
The protesters are very aware of the difference between reality and fantasy. And we have no interest — nor for that matter the ability — to legislate fantasy. What DOES concern us is the expression of violent fantasy in a public venue like Hard Alley. Were there not mountains of research pointing to a connection between pornographic images and violent or antisocial behaviours (and trust me, hundreds if not thousands of papers have been written on the subject), there would be no reason for us to protest. It is neither the activity, nor the fantasies themselves, that really concern us: it is the potential IMPACT upon RL behaviour of the public playing out of these violent fantasies that brought us to Hard Alley. No one is trying to suppress anyone’s imagination, or stomp upon their fantasies. What we ARE attempting to do is to highlight the implications of giving those fantasies a public expression in a place like Hard Alley.
@All Seeing Eye
Yes, some people do like pain. And they are welcome to like it all they want, in a nonpublic venue that doesn’t contribute to the possibilty that someone who DOESN’T like pain will be made to feel it in RL because of their actions here. “Liking” something does not automatically give one licence to pursue it if there are antisocial repercusions. I’m sure there are many people who “like” firing guns into the air, but it’s a behaviour we discourage in crowded parking lots.
@Darien
We are not “role playing” anything: we are committed feminists in RL as well as in SL. This protest was part of a larger event — 16 Days of Activism against Gender Violence — that is very much about RL gender issues. The reason we protest in SL is that what happens here impacts upon RL, in just exactly the same manner that any internet or print porn does. And anyone who thinks that we are “playing” at this is going to be pretty rapidly disabused of that illusion.
It is interesting to see a new theme emerging in some of these comments: that the protest was “hurting” SL, or that we could better spend our time urging LL to work on fixing lag, or the avatar mesh, or whatever. To begin with, if I knew for sure that getting rid of SL would save even one woman the trauma of rape, I’d wish the entire application, much as I myself love it, to hell. And as to weighing in the balance the importance of protesting about images of violence against women against “things LL should do to make SL better,” I’m afraid I know where my priorities lie.
Moreover, I am increasingly convinced that more attention upon issues such as representations of violence against women may be the salvation of SL, not it’s destruction. One of the more interesting sessions for 16 Days of Activism this weekend was a presentation by the RL feminist organization Equality Now: part of this presentation was upon that organization’s efforts against “rape” computer games, which have most recently resulted in Amazon Japan’s decision to withdraw the game “RapeLay” from sale:
http://www.equalitynow.org/english/actions/action_3302_en.html
Thanks in part to the international *Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women* (CEDAW), violently misogynist computer games everywhere are coming under more and more scrutiny. If we DO want SL to survive, we may all need to reconsider how really important we think being able to masturbate to the violent porn of our choice actually is.
Inniatzo
Dec 1st, 2009
Scylla, you say that “we have no interest — nor for that matter the ability — to legislate fantasy,” and “No one is trying to suppress anyone’s imagination, or stomp upon their fantasies.”
Then what are you doing? You wish to “highlight the implications”? Okay, fine. But to what end? I obviously don’t know your motives, but it certainly sounds to me like you would be quite delighted if this sim and others like it were banished from LL, and that you would be more than happy to have your group take credit for that. In other words, I think you *are* trying to legislate fantasy.
Also, I am not sure why you are saying this is a “public venue.” I have not been to this particular sim, but I imagine it is rated Adult. The system LL has for age verification is hardly perfect, but it is there. A person has to consciously go and fill out that webpage. No one is walking around admiring the Linden trees and suddenly stumbling into the sim accidentally. You choose to go there. And anyone can leave just as easily.
If you really believe that role play of this sort directly contributes to violent crime in rl then you should get a lawyer and sue LL.
UndoneChaos Enoch
Dec 1st, 2009
Thank you Jessica for a much more balanced account of what was going on.
UndoneChaos Enoch
Dec 1st, 2009
Inniatazo,
The owner of the region has, a bog, face book, and a few other venues on the internet marketing Hard Alley. I am thinking, and I could be way off base, that this was an attempt to solicit business.
Additionally, by the very definition of this electronic region they may have been saying “NO! NO! Please, Don’t come here! PLEASE DON’T,” but what they really meant was “YES!!! YES!!! Come protest here!!!”
UndoneChaos Enoch
Dec 1st, 2009
When I made the comment about the “balanced” account, I should clarify I was not including Scylla’s press release and I thought that was very on the nose.
Scylla Rhiadra
Dec 1st, 2009
You raise some interesting points, Inniatzo; thank you for taking the time to respond so thoughtfully.
Nobody that I know denies that some women have fantasies that can sometimes verge towards the submissive or even the violent. Moreover, it is a fact that some women who have been abused or raped in RL find role playing the trauma in SL “therapeutic.” My own feeling is that such therapeutic role playing is much better conducted in a controlled environment, rather than in the dangerously anonymous world of SL, but that is their decision to make.
To repeat, however, what I have already said: no one — and this is really true, not just a line I am parroting — is trying to suppress or deny people’s fantasies. It would be futile to even attempt it. My own view (and others at the protest may well disagree with me) is that role playing things like rape is at least acceptable when done in private. But when it is done publicly, it makes, intentionally or not, a public statement that is communicated beyond the role players. It is the difference between, say, holding racist views in private, and broadcasting these with a billboard on your front lawn. We may or may not be accountable for our fantasies, but we HAVE to have some responsibility for what we “say” publicly.
Now, I am far from entirely comfortable with the approach I have outlined above. I DO worry about the message that a man who is playing the rapist takes away from an encounter that seems to suggest that women find rape sexy, or even “want” to be raped. And I worry enormously about the kind of emotional and psychological damage that RPing rape may inflict upon the woman; I’m afraid that i don’t buy that the partitions dividing the “fantasy” of SL from RL are quite as impermeable as you seem to think.
However, given, as I say, the reality that some women are attracted to violent fantasy and role play, I see my distinction between public and private role play as a kind of workable compromise.
Which brings us to the issue of what constitutes “public.” I would raise two points here. The first is that, while Hard Alley is indeed rated “Adult,” so is every other sim that features public depictions of sexuality of any kind. (This is actually one of my main objections to the current classification system: it makes no distinction between representations of consensual sexuality, and those featuring simulations of sexualized violence.) What this means is that pretty much anyone who is interested in sex outside of their own privately-owned SL bedroom is exposed, to the same degree than they were before the “Adult” system came into place, to things like rape sims.
My second points relates to the question of audience. Your suggestion that you’d have to “look for” places like Hard Alley implies that my main concern is that people are going to “stumble across it” by accident, and be offended. In fact, those who actively search for “rape” at Hard Alley ALSO constitute a “public”; indeed, in some ways, I am far more concerned about the men who actively seek out Hard Alley to watch rape there, than those who might inadvertently happen upon it. An “Adult” rating doesn’t transform a place featuring sex balls that are out in the open into a “private” sim: it merely narrows down the “public” to which it is catering to a much more select — and in this case, to my mind worrisome segment of the population. Voyeurism and exhibitionism are, after all, one of the main appeals of places like Hard Alley: the sex is very deliberately and consciously laid out in the open for “public” viewing.
Finally, no, I DON’T particularly want rape RP banned. I would FAR rather that it wither away, unloved and unwanted, as people begin to understand the fuller implications of engaging in this sort of activity. A ban would simply drive such RP underground or to other virtual environments; the latter solution, on the other hand, achieves through dialogue, understanding, and education a much more permanent solution.
Keithunder Graves
Dec 1st, 2009
There are not mountains of scientific research proving any connection between pornography and and sexual violence.
If anything there is a negative correlation between the two. The countries with the most repressive anti porn laws also tend to be the most reactionary and also the ones where women have less rights.
The more extreme loony wing of the radical authoritarian feminists are notorious for using fake statistics and basically any argument for their bigoted and rather nasty politics which have little to do with women’s liberation but with trying to force their own narrow minded and reactionary view of other people’s sexuality down other people’s throats.
Inniatzo
Dec 2nd, 2009
Scylla,
Okay, I understand what you are saying about wanting to ban (or not ban) these sims. And I was wrong. I am willing to concede that you don’t have a goal of shutting off those sims.
I think I understand your point on ‘public’ vs ‘private’ although, I disagree that additional filtering is needed.
First, I don’t know how that would be done. Let’s say Hard Alley went private and only those people who were already accepted members of the group were allowed on the sim. How are new people supposed to be able to join? Is their a recruitment process? Open house night? And what are the criteria for letting new members into the private club? Does everyone set their own rules on who can handle the rp and who can’t? Who checks to make sure Hard Alley is following these rules?
In other words, what is the definition of the “worrisome segment of the population”? A firm practical definition that would let me say “you, you and you are in, but hey, you in the back, scram.”
Right now the only people who are in the sim are adults (as defined by LL, as flawed as that process is) who choose to go there. To say that people are “exposed” to rape rp is like saying that people who go see the movie New Moon are “exposed” to angst-ridden teenage vampires. It’s there choice to go see that movie, and as foolish as I may think they are, they know what they are going to see and it is *their* choice to make.
But secondly, and I do not mean to sound insulting, but I don’t think you are giving people enough credit. It assumes that someone is going to go see other adults using text and avatars to role play and somehow concluding that this is acceptable in real life.
Are their really people like that? I don’t doubt that a constant exposure to violence and porn – in all media – will desensitize a person to some extent. This is a bad thing, but it is a far cry from seeing such images or using video games or participating in role play and from that concluding that this is acceptable behavior in rl.
In other words, I think the vast majority of people can distinguish between fantasy and reality. The ones who can’t are going to be having difficulties in life well before they access SL.
If anything – and this is a stretch – role play with another person, one who can TP out at any moment, keeps people from straying past their partners personal limits. Unlike, say, porn, they have to acknowledge the person they are playing with as a person and not an object.
But aside from the public vs. private issue I do have a great deal of sympathy for your pov that these attitudes are bad. This is a serious problem in our society saturated with all of this stuff. But we live in a free society where many things are allowed
I just am skeptical that rp in SL affects this issue one way or the other.
Shannon
Dec 2nd, 2009
There IS mountains of scientific research proving a connection batween sexuly oppressed sociaties that ARE violant. What I worry about. is if things like Hard Ally go away. and anyone writing or talking about the sexual arousment of forced fantacies. What message does that sends to a free open sociaty with out sexual oppresion?
My worry is that stoping adult with like minded fantacies, IS the raping of free thought. And oppresing Women for expressing there desires and interest. On a diffrent site it explains the mauntain of research showing porn makes men homosexual. On a nother site there stuff showing the lesbian women cause violance in young men. Islam extremest view is women should be coverd so not to distract them from there worship of god.
Each of these example say thay have proof of the evil of women. Each of them say there oppresion of sexual behavure in all diffrent levels. AND all of them say there right.
the truth is no. none are right. andn one ask the right question.
Here is question that NO research group has found a answere to as of yet. no prof of eather side.
Does violant video games make violent people violant? Answere? No one knows. meaing so far most agree it currently has NO inpact.
Do violant video games make none violent oeple violent? No. all research agrees that none violant people who play violent video games commit violance. That said we move onto next.
Do Sexuly violant video games makes sexualy violant poeple sexualy violant? again same research all agree no enugh evadance onthere side for yes or no. or in other words. no inpact.
I agree with protest. In presenting the fact of real life violance. But past that no I can’t support any form of cencorship. nore can I support anyform of ideas that go against womens right to free choice. And saying women can’t be part of forced fantacies is against the rights of all women to freely express them selves. So in that, shame on anyone who supports it. Suppresing a womans right to free and personal choice is the uglest form or rape on a woman. But if you think your still right. and your a women. put on your burqua as not to give men bad ideas of a sexual nature that might say “she asked for it.”
Please don’t save women buy making us a victim. SCREAM about real life crime. SCREAM about oppresion of women world wide. BUT shame your self in oppresing womens right to self expresion and personal choice. Violating that IS the uglest form of dehuminizing rape anyperson male or female can do to a woman.
thank you for the artical was well done.
MudRun Sa
Dec 2nd, 2009
I’m sorry, I partake in rape RP in SL… I enjoy the force as a fantisy play. Is it really rape? NO I go to places like Hard Alley and other places like this just for RP. Am I asking to be raped in RL… NO. I’m a single woman in RL that don’t have a RL partner to role play out with so SL has been my outlet to my desired to sexual rough play.
Hard Rust
Dec 2nd, 2009
@UndoneChaos – “they may have been saying “NO! NO! Please, Don’t come here! PLEASE DON’T,” but what they really meant was ‘YES!!! YES!!! Come protest here!!!’” – LOL
Actually, I didn’t hear about the protest until the day after it was over when someone IMd me and asked about it. I didn’t think anything about it positive or negative. Having people show up in Hard Alley wearing stupid avatars and making a spectacle of themselves is nothing new, unfortunately. It happens at most popular sims.
While I doubt the protest itself had any measurable effect on traffic at Hard Alley (and please note that I’m not commenting on the purpose of the protest itself, just the impact on traffic), I have had numerous IMs from people telling me that they heard of Hard Alley through these SL Herald articles and have enjoyed visiting. I have had zero IMs from people complaining about Hard Alley.
Also, it was mentioned that Hard Alley is open to the public, and the protesters main concern was that some innocent person could come to Hard Alley, view horrible acts of violence against women, and run out into the streets to commit such acts in real life. It should be noted that most visitors to Hard Alley (unless they are regulars and have landmarks to their favorite areas) teleport initially into a skybox with no sexual activity, and signs clearly stating the nature of the sim, with the recommendation that they teleport to another sim if they disagree with this form of roleplay.
And one last point… what about the violence enacted against men (and even furries, for that matter)? I see a very regular stream of Mistresses abusing their male pets at Hard Alley. While it may not be the majority, it is by no means negligible. Hard Alley has always had a much higher ratio of women to men, some roleplaying the victim, and some roleplaying the dominant, and the biggest complaint I get is that there aren’t enough men with the balls to be forceful and just take what they want.
I built Hard Alley for people to enjoy and have fun. If it’s not your thing, that’s fine. I’m not forcing anyone to play there.
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Dec 2nd, 2009
As a chickenist and a firm believer in the Tao of Poultry I am concerned they maybe be doing chicken abuse there. Do you have any information on chicken abuse at Hard Alley Jessica?
Hard Rust
Dec 2nd, 2009
SHHHH!! We don’t talk about chicken abuse at Hard Alley! Goats, maybe… but never chickens! Any squawking you hear coming from the gang bang clubhouse is just your imagination! SHHHHH!!
Chicken Liberation Front Of Second Life
Dec 2nd, 2009
@Emperor Norton Hears A Who?
“As a chickenist and a firm believer in the Tao of Poultry I am concerned they maybe be doing chicken abuse there. Do you have any information on chicken abuse at Hard Alley Jessica?”
Finally! The ranks of the Chicken Liberation Front Of Second Life are swelling! No more will the fowl-rapists of Hard Alley be allowed to torment our egg-laying sisters! Down with Cluck-Fuck roleplay! Peck back at your abusers my dear chicken sisters! Lay ye not the egg that ye may deny the rapist his breakfast!
LittleLostLinden
Dec 2nd, 2009
Green Eggs and Ham, Sam, I am!
Darkfoxx
Dec 3rd, 2009
@Scylla
You said in your comment on my coment, that it was not your intention to legislate fantasy or supress their imagination. However the following excerpt from your press release as quoted in above article “Any activity that trivializes or seems to validate real life violence of women is intolerable.”… “This protest is being staged to make it clear that our society should not, indeed must not, tolerate it.” does make it sound as if it is indeed the roleplaying you want to not be tolerated.
I dont think you need to highlight the dangers and wrongness of real rape to any of Hard Alley’s visitors, I am certain that none of the ‘rapists’ there will disagree with you on that.
You go on saying that there is an abundance of research with the conclusion that there is a very real connection between (sexual) violence and pornography. This whilst I have only heard of reasearch into this connection coming to the conclusion that there is no real connection. The various pornographic magazines sold at newsstands and gasstations all troughout the western world also would suggest that no-one’s really seen fit to make pornography something illegal, as probably, nay surely would happen if there was a real connection between looking at porn and raping the next woman that comes along.
Of course if you do your reasearch by tasking convicted rapists if they ever looked at porn, most if not all will indeed say that they have. That way you could indeed come to the conclusion that most (if not all) subjects who have looked at porn, got convicted of rape on a later date. It is how a.o. PETA does their reseach, and I think we’re in agreement on what that is worth.
In the 50′s people have raised great concerns about violent super hero comic books their children were reading, and I have seen a few of those government warning videos they made back then to warn parents of the threat of Superman comics making their sons into violent criminals. We all know by now that this was hilariously wrong. I think the reasearch you mention falls in the same catagory.
IF there is but a single person who gets influenced by Hard Alley roleplay (or sexual or rape roleplay in general) to commit these crimes in Real Life, that they were already damaged in the head beforehand, and no protesting is going to fix a mental problem.
It is very good and admirable that you would want to prevent RL victims of rape from becoming a victim, but please dont do it over the backs of normal, sane, nice people who are doing nothing wrong but indulge in innocent roleplay. Banning Hard Alley would do more harm then good.
Maybe do the protest against real life rape, not roleplay, and gridwide, not merely in Hard Alley. I would join you.
Col. Sanders
Dec 3rd, 2009
To all Chicken Liberation Front members and all their egg-laying sisters: I have a very nice place where all of you chickens can feel safe from rape and other dangers.
Come live in Kentucky! we *know* what to do with chickens!
Chicken Liberation Front Of Second Life
Dec 3rd, 2009
@ Col. Sanders
What a nice man! I shall gather up my sister chickens and we shall come and live on your ranch in Kentucky with nice barns and a farmyard to scratch around in and a job for life
This eleven herbs and spices thing sounds nice too, we shall look forward to it
JustMe
Dec 3rd, 2009
While personally, I detest the concept of rape roleplay, the people who do it have the right to .. it IS consensual. If you are going to protest this, why aren’t you protesting against the SL military groups who .. GASP .. KILL each other on a regular basis ? By your way of thinking, isn’t that murder .. or at least promoting murder ?
Scylla Rhiadra
Dec 3rd, 2009
@Darkfoxx
That I find something intolerable does not mean that I want it banned. I find the right wing government of my country intolerable too, but, although I will fight hard against them and what they stand for, I don’t want them “banned” either. I’d love to see them get kicked out of office, and will, come the next election here, work hard to convince people not to vote for them. Does this mean that I am intolerant?
I’m not sure that I share your faith that, if the connection between rape and pornography is well established, governmments would “surely” have done something about it. For one thing, many governments may believe (as, in fact, do I) that banning pornography is wrong for other reasons. Moreover, these things move slowly indeed; it’s been less than 20 years since the UK recognized spousal rape as rape at all: in many US states, it is STILL considered “less” of a crime to rape your wife than to rape a stranger. Does this really make any sense? It’s an ongoing process.
Determining causality is always difficult in human subjects, because we are so very complicated, but most modern studies do attempt to do so. I can give you a couple of samples.
***
To establish a causal relationship between violent porn and rape attitudes, Check and Guloein (1989) used a control group to which no pornographic was shown, as well as another to which only non-violent porn or erotica was shown., for instance, : it determined that “the viewing of both the non-violent dehumanizing materials as well as the violent materials resulted in male subjects reporting a significantly greater likelihood of engaging in rape or other coercive sex acts than the control group.”
Marshall (1989) interviewed sex offenders: “In a sample of non-incarcerated sex offenders, a third of the rapists, and over half of those who committed child sexual abuse, said they **deliberately used pornography in preparation for committing the offence.**” (Emphasis mine).
***
Most studies use control groups, before-and-after samplings of subject attitudes, or even polygraph tests to establish that porn use doesn’t merely reflect, but actually helps generate, rape myths and attitudes.
As for the people at Hard Alley, and their predilection for rape, I have no idea. We aren’t suggesting that those who engage in rape RP at Hard Alley or anywhere else are on the road to becoming rapists: we are suggesting that rape RP helps generate the misogynist attitudes that enable rape in real life.
Finally, this IS about “real life rape”; it’s about combatting the attitudes and depictions that support rape myths in the real world. This is why the protest was part of a much larger, still ongoing, event in SL (parallelling one in RL) called 16 Days of Activism against Gender Violence. This event features presentations, workshops, panel discussions, and exhibits that are very much about RL rape, abuse, and misogyny. And you are more than welcome to join us. You can find the schedule of events (as well as a rundown of what has already happened) at:
http://slactivists.ning.com/
brandon
Dec 3rd, 2009
Oh wow, what a bunch of hooey Scylla. Just keep it up and you’ll be banned from SL very soon. Nutjobs like you just don’t belong. I bet you don’t have sex often so you? Your the kind that cries rape after having sex too i bet. I know girls who have done that to “get back” at their ex’s. Oh the poor girls! Shit, yeah right.
One time my neighbor was having a fight with his GF about some stupid stuff. I live right next door and hes told me of her lack of brain cells before so I knew a bit of what was going on. They were having some argument that carried outside on the front lawn. Something about a jet ski no less. Long story short he told her to move out and she flipped. She started hitting him and clawing him. I knew this was going to be good so I got my cell phone camera ready. After a long heated exchange the cops pulled up and she runs off to the side of the house next to mine. I move over and film her as she rolls her sleeves up and rakes her nails over her own arms and then around her neck. Shes drew blood on her arms. Then she got down and crawled, yes crawled!!!! and started crying and shit back into the front yard.
I knew what was going to happen. Boy in blue see the poor girl all beat up, Its instant handcuffs on Mr. neighbor. That was all I needed to see to get involved so I came out my front door and wondered down to the scene. Everyone was on high emotion and she was screaming he was trying to kill her and everything.
They were about to haul him off when I pulled the head officer aside and said you need to see something before you do this. So I played him the video of her fucking herself up and pretending to be hurt. The video was passed around and the look of sheer naked hate from the girl was priceless.
Guess who got locked up?
The guy and I sat and had a beer later after the cops left with the mental case and I asked him why the hell did he stay with her since we all knew she was defective. He had no clue, but he said the same thing that made her unstable made for awesome freaky sex. But he came to see it was a right off. All her stuff was stuck in storage the next day and she never came back again. We all filed restraining orders on her to give it some legal backing.
So I have no care for you girls who lie and cheat and use the system to your advantage. Don’t say you don’t,you do just that.
Yes there are real bad guys. But a lot of whats happening is a females control issue nothing more. The older I get the less I trust woman because I see they are by their very design, mentally unstable.
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Dec 3rd, 2009
Scylla Rhiadra, you are ducking my question. For this you have earned yourself an irritated glance from me. Do not make me resort to a full on frown, you will not like it. I am a kind hearted man and dislike using such extreme measures but you leave me no choice.
Now is there Chicken abuse at Hard Alley Scyllia? This trivial stuff about women getting raped is all interesting but there maybe some real abuse going on there. Please stop being so close minded and hateful here
Persephone Bolero
Dec 3rd, 2009
@Scylla
You still continue to ignore the fact that rapes are down, which raises a lot of questions (you avoid) about the validity of the research you present. You yourself admit that causality is hard to pin down. Then isn’t it reasonable to consider that those studies are in fact flat wrong?
And if this IS about real rape, then why can’t we consider the possibility that the activities in Hard Alley and elsewhere are giving a safe outlet for human impulses that would otherwise turn deviant with no other means to express them? What if by protesting them your are *causing* rape? Do you consider this possibility? If this is about real life rape and not a crusade against that which you find morally offensive, you would.
I think you also need to consider the language you use. If your point is not a ban, then obviously you do consider these activities tolerable. Something that is not to be tolerated is something to be stopped by just about any means necessary.
And make no mistake about it, while you continue your sex-negative crusade, this is all a two-way street. We will fight hard against you and what you stand for. I don’t want you and feminists like you banned, but I would love to see people who hold your destructive views kicked out of office forever. Feminism should be about freedom and equality. Not a dogmatic pursuit against consensual activities that many find pleasurable.
Darkfoxx
Dec 4th, 2009
@Scylla: “That I find something intolerable does not mean that I want it banned”
Yes, it does mean that.
If you tolerate something, you may or may not agree with something but let it go on. Like the way you tolerate noisy and annying children in a restaurant or public transport.
To not tolerate something means that you want it stopped, like Greenpeace finds the Japanese hunting whales itolerable, or the police finds graffiti spraying intolerable.
What you mean, is that you find Hard Alley tolerable, meaning you dont like it, dont agree with it, but let it go on.
In your studies examples: “subjects reporting a significantly greater likelihood of engaging in rape or other coercive sex acts than the control group”
I would lock that group of subjects up then, I have never felt a greater need for rape or violent acts from watching ANY kind of porn. But maybe Im just the weirdo in that then.
And yeah if you ask sex offenders, people who have already done the crime, then of COURSE you’re gonna get answers that point towards them having watched porn beforehand and in preperation. That way you can also gain results showing that indeed, games like GTA do make people violent murderers and robbers.
As I keep saying, porn isnt the cause of rape in any way, a mental defect (not able to judge wrong from right included) is the cause. What caused that ‘moral misalignment’ in the first place, is far more important to research IMHO then the effects of some innocent (yes I use that word deliberately) roleplay between concenting adults in the semi private setting of Hard Alley sim.
Corona Anatine
Dec 4th, 2009
re
And if this IS about real rape, then why can’t we consider the possibility that the activities in Hard Alley and elsewhere are giving a safe outlet for human impulses that would otherwise turn deviant with no other means to express them? What if by protesting them your are *causing* rape? Do you consider this possibility? If this is about real life rape and not a crusade against that which you find morally offensive, you would.
if this is do then it is also true to say
if this IS about real pedophilia, then why can’t we consider the possibility that the activities in rpg sim and elsewhere are giving a safe outlet for human impulses that would otherwise turn deviant with no other means to express them? What if by protesting them your are *causing* pedophilia? Do you consider this possibility? If this is about real life rape and not a crusade against that which you find morally offensive, you would.
if the arguments agianst banning violent porn are valid, then they are just as valid arguements against banning pedophile role play
which is rightly banned
you cannot condemn pedophile role play because of the potential effects such will have on RL behavoiur and then turn round and say ‘but with rape its different- roleplaying sexual violence has no effect on RL behaviour
however if it is the case that things that are done in SL have no effect or infleunce on RL
then why is sexual age play banned ?
given that a line of acceptablity of roleplay has already been set as an acceptable concept
and
given the line exists then it follows that the placing of the censor line will be subject to movement according to the politics of the sL inhabitants
it comes down to the question of what is acceptable as roleplay, and where the line should be
Keithunder Graves
Dec 4th, 2009
Corona your slippery slope argument is facile.
You could equally argue that violence in the media is causing violence in society. So ban all violent role play or violent fiction.
Ban Shakespeare, Ban most cop shows, ban most films, ban Star Trek, ban Tom and Jerry.
We might conjecture where your nasty minded little line is going to go.
When people start waffling on about children and pedophiles that is normally when they have lost the argument.
The minority of sex negative feminists are giving the whole movement a bad name. (funny how they seem to have forged an alliance with the most reactionary anti women’s tight factions of the Christian far right)
corona Anatine
Dec 5th, 2009
my point is that
The arguements agianst one set of fantasies or for a set of fantasies are equally applicable to ALL fantasies
either ALL fantasies can alter RL behaviour or none can
you cannot argue selectivelt that fantasy A will reselt in rL behaviour while fantasy B does not
once you accept that a ‘line of censorship’ is appropiate in SL
eg roleplay of nazis , child porn , male nipples
then the line exists as a legitimate construct
it will then rise to whatever level the most vocal wish it set at
it was not the ‘slippery slope was highlighting but the arguement that roleplay of rape or sexual violence had no effect in RL
in simpler terms
IF it is true that
‘if this IS about real rape, then why can’t we consider the possibility that the activities in Hard Alley and elsewhere are giving a safe outlet for human impulses that would otherwise turn deviant with no other means to express them? What if by protesting them your are *causing* rape?
is applicable to any line someone wants to draw
what Scylla is saying is should rapeplay be socially acceptable within SL
and why is rape roleplay acceptable when child rape is not
both rape role play and pedo roleplay require two adults to participate
so the arguement falls to what is acceptable for adults to indulge in
in their imagination
to repeat the point for those hard of reading
it is not the line that I questioned bu the idea that somehow if you roleplay pedo sex it will lead to RL behaviour
yet if you indulge in rape role play
- why can’t we consider the possibility that the activities in Hard Alley and elsewhere are giving a safe outlet for human impulses that would otherwise turn deviant with no other means to express them? What if by protesting them your are *causing* rape?
think about it
corona Anatine
Dec 5th, 2009
So what people appear to be saying is that
pedophile roleplay in SL is sick and degenerate
whereas sexual violence roleplay – oh thats just a healthy outlet
“a safe outlet for human impulses that would otherwise turn deviant with no other means to express them?”
that holds true for ALL such impulses no matter how repellent to those who dont have them
the question is not that a line exists but where it should be
ps Tom and Jerry IS Banned
at least it is in Iran, [apparently it is seen as part of the zionist conspiracy] .
plus if I remember rightly the BBC did ban Tom and Jerry from their TV channel becuse it was linked to copycat abuse of pet animals by children
so it is eqally valid to argue that exposure to the material will lead to emulation of what is portrayed, or more significantly a greater acceptance of such behaviour in others
so for example if it is socially acceptable to beat up gays or use racist language then others will see no wrong in it
you need only compare the diffenrence in attitude between the 1930′s and the 1990s
to smoking , drink driving, racist language, homophobia etc
and yes it is a slippery slope
censorship always is
but to argue that one thing is ok becuse it is a healthy outlet whereas another is not becuase it is already banned
is not avalid arguement
Scylla Rhiadra
Dec 5th, 2009
@Brandon
My goodness, but you are a card-carrying member of the knuckle-dragging troglidytes club, aren’t you? Women are “by their very design, mentally unstable”??? Nice: we really should be paying you for exemplifying so beautifully the kind of mind-blowing ignorance that made the protest so necessary. With enemies like you, who needs friends?
@ Persephone
No, I am not “ignoring” the fact that “rapes are down,” because they aren’t: YOU in fact are ignoring the stats from the U.S. Department of Justice on convictions for rape, provided in comments on the other story by Bear Jharls, which show no such “drop”:
2004: 12,310
2002: 10,980
2000: 10,600
1998: 11,622
Let us suppose, as you seem big on fantasy, that rapes actually were down. There is a logical fallacy known as “post hoc ergo propter hoc”: “after this, therefore because of this.” This fallacy involves linking a prior event with a subsequent one without actually demonstrating that there is any causal relationship. Exactly as you have done, in fact: if rapes HAD dropped (which they haven’t) there might have been any number of possible reasons for that. It might even be that the increase in porn use had pushed them up, but that other developments had more than “corrected” for that tendency. In other words, you might as well argue that an increase in cheese consumption is pushing rapes down: you are “proving” nothing.
It is, in any case, academic: the stats demonstrate that rapes are NOT down.
@Darkfoxx
We can argue about the semantics of the word “tolerate” until the cows come home, so let me just make this absolutely clear to you. I am not, was not, and will not be calling for a “ban” of rape role play. Nor have I seen anyone here, or at the protest do so. There, nice and unambiguous isn’t it?
You’re response to the studies is facile: some of these survey sex offenders, but most do not. The essential tendency of all of these studies, regardless of whom is being studied, are the same: porn, and especially extreme porn, makes the acceptance of rape myths more likely.
And again I’ll ask: if images and words in the multimedia have no impact upon the minds and attitudes of those viewing them, why are untold billions of dollars annually spent on advertising? Or does the human brain have a special ability to screen out the impact of messages conducing towards violence against women?
@Keithunder
I suspect that depictions of violence are helping to make our society more violent. In fact, there are many studies that show this. However, in response to your analogy:
1) If you can’t see the difference between the violence in King Lear (a play that employs violence to make an anti-violence message) and the gratuituous violence-for-violence’s-sake of many video games, for instance, then I’d say you need to sharpen your skills as an interpreter of not merely art and literature, but of all media.
2) To repeat yet again, for those who apparently don’t read very well: no one is calling for a ban on rape role play. Stop trying to play the “censorship” card: that only works when someone is actually proposing to censor something. We are not: we are asking everyone to consider the implications of these actions. That is all. If I ask someone to consider the impact of voting Republican or Conservative, am I trying to “censor” them?
3) None of those involved in the protest is “sex negative.” Speaking personally, I love sex. If we were out to stop sex, we’d be protesting against the latest version of “lovescene” at Bits and Bobs. We aren’t antisex: we are antiviolence.
4) Your imaginary alliance between feminists and Christian right is not merely implausible: it is actually offensive, rather as it would be to suggest that someone of the Jewish faith was cosying up with a neonazi. The attitudes of Christian far right on just about everything, INCLUDING this issue, are anathema to any feminist I’ve ever met. It’s one thing to critique what we actually stand for; it’s quite another to simply fabricate an association that doesn’t exist, and use it to attack us.
Scylla Rhiadra
Dec 5th, 2009
@Emperor Norton
Sorry, I forgot to reply to your post.
PETA is the province of my sister Charybdis. I have alerted her to your concerns, and you can expect to be hearing from her shortly.
Inniatzo
Dec 5th, 2009
@brandon
Do us a favor and stop trying to argue that these protests are ill founded.
Your one anecdotal story — even assuming what you say is accurate — shows absolutely nothing. Sure there are some women who make false accusations of all kinds. There are some wackos all over the place male and female.
But to imply that the majority of women who go to the police because of sexual assault are just trying to “”get back” at their ex’s.” is fucking bullshit. In RL this **is** a goddamn serious problem, no matter what you saw (or rather what you say you saw) with your neighbors. But there’s no point in trying to explain that, you’ll never get it.
And to top it off you toss in, “I bet you don’t have sex often so you? Your the kind that cries rape after having sex too i bet.” Jesus Christ! Am I missing something here? is this supposed to be a parody of some misogynistic asshole? You certainly do a good job of sounding like one.
Wait, there’s more, the kicker is at the end:
“So I have no care for you girls who lie and cheat and use the system to your advantage. Don’t say you don’t,you do just that.
Yes there are real bad guys. But a lot of whats happening is a females control issue nothing more. The older I get the less I trust woman because I see they are by their very design, mentally unstable.”
Oooo. Methinks brandon has been burned by the ladies. Could it be… oh, hmm, perhaps — and this is wild speculation here — just perhaps, brandon, you don’t have a fucking clue how to relate to women? And so when one tells you to fuck off for any of a dozen reasons the only possible explanation for her rejecting such a fine hunk of manmeat is that she’s “mentally unstable.”
I disagree with these protests in SL for all sorts of reasons. But this sort of attitude is exactly the sort of thing they are talking about. They certainly have a point about men who have this sort of anti-woman attitude. And yet, I am sure you were an asshole long before you came to SL.
@ Corona
Dec 6th, 2009
“then why is sexual age play banned ?”
Because LL didnt want to deal with bad press from some German newspaper who tried to make SL look like one big child porn trading ring. It has little to do with any laws or LL’s stance on it, they were happily letting it go on before the German reporters dregded up some real child porn.
(according to laws that matter SL’s sexual agepay was perfectly allowed – nothing ‘undestinguishable from real photographic material’ in SL’s crappy rendered AV’s.)
The question of what is acceptable in roleplay is as dangerous as the question of that is acceptable for people to fantasize about or think about: the answer obviously should be ‘anything and everything’
For a company that boasts about the freedom in it’s ‘game’ (Your World, Your Imagination) I think its odd and frankly wrong that they would go out of their way to take away said freedoms. And it’s sad that some residents like to enjoy their own freedoms but dont want others to enjoy theirs.
I fear for the concequences if LL starts listening to these kind of protest groups. I have already packed my bags, just in case. (read: backed up my inventory so I can use my stuff on Open Sim when Second Life turns DisneyLife.)
Ranma Tardis
Dec 6th, 2009
Second try the power went out on me and during the switch from public electric to backup lost my message. I wonder how many perverts and killers use Second Life as a trainer for doing it in real life. Helping to shape their thoughts that women are “sluts and streetwalkers’. Making it possible for them to have no respect for them as people. The consequential BDSM stuff is only so bad but when it comes to the stalking, capturing, raping and eating of women and men it goes too far. These hentai get courage to do it in real life and soon fantasize doing it in real life. Hell the “bitch” is asking for it. The pervert might say “I have seen Ranma come and go, she must be a feisty lesbian who needs to be reformed”. She has enough spunk to make things interesting, after the capture he sees a slut and a yellow person. After a period of time decides to kill and eat her just like in Second Life. Second life made his dream come true. Doing these foul things to people makes themselves insensitive to doing it to real people. They just needed an extra boost of confidence.
Inniatzo
Dec 7th, 2009
@Ranma
I have no way of knowing for sure, but I suspect the number of perverts and killers who are using SL “as a trainer for doing it in real life” is about zero. I wish it was more because this sort of ‘training’ would be useless and only lead to them being caught. If someone objects to this sort of roleplay then fine, I disagree but that is their viewpoint. But what you describe only shows you have no idea how this form of role play occurs.
In some places I rp as a dominant, in others as a submissive. In the first case no one has to play with me, and in the second if I don’t like what’s going on I’ll either ignore them or tp out. No one can force another person to do anything in sl. The people who go to these sims go there because they want to go there. They enjoy these fantasies. You don’t and that’s fine. But the people in these sims do enjoy it.
Notice the critical difference between SL and RL: People may play the part of a victim but it’s roleplay, it’s all pretend. The “victims” *want* to be caught. The setup varies from sim to sim, but at least for the ones I have been to, its not that hard to catch someone who wants to be caught.
The other idea, one that others mention too, is that somehow the men are going to come away from all of this thinking that women are sluts, they all want it, etc. etc. I find that rather unlikely. There may be men who think that, but I’ll bet they thought that long before they landed on Help Island.
In some cases, and this is not just for me, their may be vicious role play in open chat while friendly, gossipy IMs are going on at the same time.
But there is also the fact that the vast majority of people have limits. Often they are stated on the profile, or in notecards that are filled out as part of the process of joining a group in the sim, which list these. If you go beyond someone’s limits, they might tell you in IM, they might just leave, they might report the person to the mods.
If you look at the profiles of many people who rp in Gorean sims, I’d say most of them, they list their limits. There is a wide variety, sometimes people might get mad and say someone’s limits are invalid or whatnot, but in the end it doesn’t matter. If they don’t like what is going on they can leave.
The bottom line is that for two people to roleplay they have have to be cognizant of the other person’s mode of play, especially their limits. This is very much *not* the case in RL. Someone pushing the boundaries in RL doesn’t have to worry about them tping out. Someone being violated in RL can’t just ignore them and pull up a browser until they go away.
Hard sex rp in SL is *not* going to help anyone to do this in RL. If anything, its the opposite, though I doubt it matters one way or the other.
((There is a caveat to what I said. There are some people who don’t get out when another person is going beyond their limits in a way that they really don’t like. Not everyone reports to a mod when some asswipe sends obnoxious IMs and won’t let up, some women (and maybe men, I have no idea) are so submissive they feel they have to go along with it, and in other cases they may be so invested in long term rp (for instance in a Gorean sim) they don’t want to break character during a sex scene.
So while anyone can tp out or otherwise end an rp they don’t like, and most people do, there are some, not many, who do get pushed to far.))
Darkfoxx
Dec 7th, 2009
“Or does the human brain have a special ability to screen out the impact of messages conducing towards violence against women?”
I have a set of those. I call it my concience and my moral compass.
Those who dont have these, did not lose them because of porn or any images.
Darkfoxx
Dec 7th, 2009
Also, I am not saying you are calling for a ban, but protesting at that particular sim and some of your wording does make it seem like you are against Hard Alley and what takes place there.
And that in itself, even if it isnt your or anyone’s attention, can be enough to make Linden Lab take a good look at what causes this bad press and act upon it.
I just want you to concider the implications of your actions.
The ban on sexual ageplay as an example: Linden Lab was aware of it happening and has let it go on for a long time, but when finally the RL press found out and made it public that pedophiles ran wild on Second Life, that meant bad press for LL and they were quick to swing the banhammer.
LL doent care about it’s customer’s opinions. They only care about RL press, they are a company and need good advertising not bad. Wether or not SL residents want something banned, doesnt matter to LL. The possible bad press they cause for SL, matters everything.
An alternative would have been to have the protest in the public welcome areas, and not point any blaming fingers (literally or by the chosen protest location), but just call attention to the growing problem of violence and rape against both women and men.
Persephone Bolero
Dec 7th, 2009
@Corna
Show me where anyone is arguing that one fantasy between consenting adults is okay and another is not. In fact, that’s an argument you made up entirely in your own head. Ageplay is banned by Linden Labs TOS. So it doesn’t matter if it provides a safe outlet for fantasies that may otherwise become deviant. LL is a private company and can ban whatever behavior it chooses to. But that has nothing to do with this conversation.
@Skylla
Um, you really don’t understand the difference between arrests and incarceration, do you? Arrests show how often an activity is being reported and a suspect is taken into custody for it. Incarceration rates show how many people are in prison for past incidents that resulted in conviction. So, incarceration rates say absolutely nothing about current trends in criminal behavior.
The rate of incarceration for drug offenses climbed seven fold through the 80s and 90s. Does that mean that drug use is rapidly increasing? Or does it show increases in police and court activity against drug offenders? Is it more a measure of an increase in draconian drug policies? Surveys show that, while individual drugs go in and out of fashion, drug use rates have been relatively flat throughout the war on drugs. You really don’t comprehend this? Is anyone else having trouble understanding this relatively simple explanation? For those that aren’t, you’ll understand that incarceration rates for rape say *nothing* about rates of rape over time.
Hard Alley To Be Cleaned Out March 10? | The Alphaville Herald
Jan 25th, 2012
[...] Hard Alley may be doomed by the faltering Second Life in-world economy – a shocking development for both militant protesters and forced urban roleplay fans who are likely to lose a formerly vital [...]