Script Limits Coming to Second Life
by Jessica Holyoke on 20/12/09 at 12:25 pm
by Jessica Holyoke
In the Official Linden Blog, Babbage Linden outlines one of the goals for the next release of the Second Life viewer, soon to be followed in the third party viewers, the concept of script limits. Instead of asking people to look at their avatar rendering cost as a way to reduce lag on a sim, the Lab will be showing people how much the scripts that they use as part of a parcel and as part of their attachments cost in terms of memory used. The shining example of the "unused script that eats away at memory" are the resizing scripts used in shoes, hair and clothing when a creator makes those items no modify but needs to allow for people to change the size of the shoes.
The general reaction to the announcement appears to be positive. Lag would be reduced because blingtards and people who do not understand script efficiency will have to change their behavior in order to come in under the limit for scripts, reducing the load on the servers that everyone depends on, and thereby reducing everyone's lag. Consumers would start to be able to buy off of XstreetSL based on the memory of the scripts used, as well as prim counts.
However, what Babbage's blog post doesn't explain is how the script usage would be determined. Attachments are fairly easy to determine as belonging to an avatar. What I wear to a club or an event would effect server load. What isn't clear is the accountability of a person's script foot print across the grid and whether that factors into script load.
For example, vendors are mentioned as scripted items that are in an avatar's name. Will our malls, or the vacancy in those malls, be affected by the number of scripted items a person is allowed to rez on the grid?
A merchant that has multiple sales sites has a legitimate reason for using scripts across the grid, but will this be factored into allowed script limits? Will landlords be able to adjust their estates script limits to allow for their rental boxes and doors to work that are in their names? What about people who have both stores and homes? Or will additional accounts need to be created to maintain a per account script limit for the grid? The office hour logs of Babbage and Jack Linden are not clear on whether script limits would be grid wide and estate controllable and Babbage Linden was unavailable to comment at press time.
And what would a proper script limit be? A chat type event would need less in scripts than a dance club, which needs dancing scripts, which would need less than any combat sim, which requires weapons, projectiles and meters. Or is the script limit allocated to population? 40 avatars get this much memory and that's all? The answers will be forthcoming, but preparations are needed now to determine how much scripting is used per person and if it can be made more efficient.
Zauber Exonar
Dec 20th, 2009
With the new script limits, some newer script functions are being introduced that will reduce the need for having many scripts running in an object (generally 1 script per prim). These script functions are llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast and llGetLinkPrimitiveParams. The first one is otherwise identical to the existing llSetLinkPrimitiveParams function, but it operates without the built-in 0.2 second delay. The second one is lets you grab primitive properties from other prims in the linkset, a capability that does not exist in LSL, unless you place scripts in all of the other prims in the linkset.
MattyK
Dec 20th, 2009
…And Thus, the Grand Blingtard Exodus begins…
Sophia~
Dec 20th, 2009
While on a sim yesterday that was holding an event, they had a region restart and when I came back I crashed big time and my screen went red and poof “beep beep beep” my PC went and fried my graphics card.
New top of the line PC, late September. It was not my PC that fried my graphics card. Now I will say my graphics card was the only thing I did not replace just because it was a good one. It was in good condition and a good one. My PC was built with the latest and greatest components and only the graphics card fried.
When I got this PC up and running which has more than the recommended everything SL tells you need to run SL and its a fast gaming PC but still SL did not perform to my expectations when I got back on this past Seeptember. I was disappointed.
It ran faster but the same things kept happening in SL. Flying off regions, walking backwards, grey images, long rez time still, new things when filming like my arrow would not go away. I felt like I was back in 07. Somethings had changed with the releases and made things worse.
I love SL really but you know if I had trouble God help the folks who use the basics. Something has got to improve. I was moving faster but I experienced the same ole irritating things on weekends and on weekdays. It got to the point it was pointless to go on during the weekends.
It will be 3 years Jan 16th 2010 and I’m a very patient person but it’s wearing me down. I don’t know how long I can keep it up. I really want it to improve & I’ll give it more time but come already. I know it’s a complicated platform but they are almost making it impossible for the ordinary user to have access to it. If you want quality.
So I’m hoping for improvement’s & the best for SL in 2010. But if it continues like this I will have no other choice but to find something else to enjoy for fun. I don’t want to risk the wear on my PC. It’s to much to replace.
I promote Second Life to others I know and I’m starting to get a little embarrassed now to do that because it is beyond growing pains @ this point.
Sophia~
PS I’ve picked up a new graphics card & will be back but God if it fries this one I’m done. It was a huge crash and my screen went red and beeeeeeep. It fried… may it rest in peace.
a sad tale
Dec 20th, 2009
I have heard rumour that they will be Bannig those Furry Tail Wagging scripts also, as they are a total waste of world resources.
みみか 王
Dec 20th, 2009
Avatar Rendering Cost is rendering cost. On your viewer. Not sim lag. Not to do with scripts.
Bling is a particle effect. On your viewer. Not sim lag. Not to do with scripts.
Thank you for listening.
Arthur Fermi
Dec 20th, 2009
This will likely kill most private sandboxes, and probably most malls. The real problem isn’t individuals its that the basic architecture of second life needs to be redesigned.
Jessica Holyoke
Dec 20th, 2009
みみか 王,
You are right, avatar rendering is not something that lags a sim, it lags a client. But it was the big deal prior to reducing lag for everyone, looking at ARC.
mh
Dec 20th, 2009
Limitations will likely break much of what is already deployed. Even were it possible for a relatively complex script to be pared down by the average sl coder, will vendors go through the hassle and expense of doing so for no compensation? Will residents be willing to fork over money to keep their exiting inventory items working?
And with the lab showing that they will make changes which arbitrarily break *most* of your purchased items how much are you willing to now spend on new scripted stuff?
I wonder if it is lindens intention to make long time residents leave and basically start over?
Rock Ramona
Dec 21st, 2009
dear sophia,may as well start packing now,all the tricks the lindens tried to get someone to loan them a few million to hire bunches of code monkeys to develop a whole new platform have failed.there will no second coming for many moons to come,just the sweet slow sound of money from everyones pockets,swiftly emptying into all of the vendors,land barons and the magical ones we call lindens.they will slowly take your money as they deal out their deadly drug called sl,and those with no life,bad marriages and the extremely bored will continue to support them as they deal out itty bits of fixed viewers…….awww im sorry,did i hurt some feelings?…dint mean to..guess ill fix that in my next update /me snickers
mr carrot
Dec 21st, 2009
haha.
So many users will cry once their scripted objects stop working.
The tears will be hilarious.
Anonymous
Dec 21st, 2009
@mh
No, its Linden’s intention to drive off all the hobbyist and casual users in lieu of corporations and big business folks who honestly have no intention to bother introducing a VIDEO GAME into their work place.
Sophia Yates
Dec 21st, 2009
@Rock
You sound like a lovely person. I do catch your tone of sarcasm. If you work for LL you aren’t helping matters for yourself.(cough which I don’t beleive you do).
Ive worked for large corporations who were really # 1 in their fields and they to went belly up. So if your that anxious to stand in the unemployment line be my guest. But I don’t think Linden Labs is going anywhere to soon.
If the people @ Linden Labs think they are invincible though they should look @ the past companies that were close to their field many moons ago and I’m serious about that. I was a part of an industry like theirs. My company reorganized and people were canned or went elsewhere. I was not laid off I followed the clan of people that company educated & gave me the tools for a life long wonderful career. So i wasn’t a loser there.
I don’t think the kids @ Linden Lab will be losers either if it reorganizes. They most likely were given the same gift I was given. An education & a career path.
Second Life is a serious hobby of mine & I enjoy it very much. It can be very frustrating @ times. But it may become the thing of the past for me for awhile. Which is ok with me. I have plenty to keep me busy. I just fit SL into my life because I choose to. I like it.
If they really were looking for investor money that speaks volumes as that could indicate expansion. It was only a matter of time they grew up. Many Universities have Second life as part of their curriculum. Universities I know very well that are top. And for them to pick it up that says a lot about SL. so I’m not to worried about its failure.
I just love how some people perceive users also as losers or people who don’t have a life. I think like yourself r the ones who haven’t had a good time and r pooh pooing it because they r the real losers. How would you know what it is like if you were not part of it to speak so down to the people who enjoy it. I just get peed off when it affects my hardware.
Many moons ago I joined SL while looking to have some fun on the internet and be creative. I came across a great tribe of others just like myself who enjoyed the same thing.
I came from the graphics world and retired to bring up a family and live a life others only dream of in real life.
Your making comments that only place you in the same category of losers you speak of.
When my company split up into smaller companies we ended up with other companies that grew into bigger companies like Linden Labs and watched them grow and fall down as well. One of the companies that branched off mine was Microsoft. Gee sound familiar? And many others that most people know of. Also it was the beginning of the 3D World. But we used it for Engineering & Design and scientific analysis.
I’m not so worried about linden Labs / SL not being around in one shape or form in the future. It possibly may be bit different like everything else does when it evolves.
It’s not unusual either for companies to look for investors it doesn’t mean they r in financial trouble. Which I don’t think that is the situation here.
I have been with SL for 3 years I think that shows some dedication and have observed many people use it for some really fantastic applications for real life. It isn’t just a game to some. It’s a demonstration tool and it has launched careers for some that other wise may never have found a path in life as to what they wanted to do for a career.
It has also opened the world up to many others who could not walk out their own front door either from a disability or fear of it. I wont trash SL for what it has done for others where it has altered the lives of many people for the better. That’s not why I complain.
Everything has a downside and SL well it does love to drive you crazy now and then but for something to have me hanging on for 3 years. Well there has to be something there. It takes a lot to get me to stick to something like this. I expected the best coming from the best. So my expectations are were set very high.
I guess you wont be participating in the great change then. I hate growing pains…Have a good real life.
I’ll just wait around to see what the creative folks (the residents) of SL dream up next. The truly fascinating people of Second Life who make it what it is.
Sophia~
Faye Serendipity
Dec 21st, 2009
Script limits should be placed in Land Adminstration options, so Sim owners can dictate the usage. Anything else and it’s like the Lindens want SL to become their Nazi Germany, oh wait-
@Sophia
This isn’t your personal blog, what the fuck are you on about your computer problems? None of that is related to scripts in SL, trust me. You made me LOL a lot though. Oh god at “High End Computer”. More like, shitty dell “gaming computer” rip off amiright? “Fried graphics card” There’s no way this happens just from using SL, ever heard of VSYNCH? FANS? Turning off processes, scanning for spyware? If anything a combination of bullshit installed to your computer, the opening of that new lady gaga video in AOL+ SL probably made your box overheat and shut down. And more lol at the monitor. Monitors don’t just fry unless there was a fire. This is assuming you’re a USAIAN, if not, replace AOL, DELL with whatever mass production big corp of fail is near you. Don’t even tell me you built your computer either.
Darien Caldwell
Dec 21st, 2009
It is interesting that LL is now implementing llGetLinkPrimitiveParams after all these years. They always said they wouldn’t since it can be used to copy other people’s items easily. I guess protecting people’s IP takes a back seat once again.
Sophia Yates
Dec 21st, 2009
Such a nice group of folks here. No I do not have a Dell and yes it can mess with your hardware.
And Faye no this is not my own personal blog is it yours? I’m adding my comments just like yourself. You sound like an immature little brat with your little rant If I may say lol.
Linden Lab is going in a direction just like any other companys have had to go in order to grow. Their going to do what they want.
I have plenty of fans as well and that didn’t matter. I know how it all works. Oh and I really have seen monitors really explode and fry. I didn’t say mine did. I have a nice big screen and i don’t listen to lady GA GA.
You know I try and be civil here on this site but no matter what you do there’s that element of folks here that just have no class or clue no wonder The company wants a new audience who can blame them reading half this crap.
Good luck there with what you do with your spare time Faye you sound like a really nice person. NOT! My comments are usually written with good intentions not to insult or make a fool out of others like you just tried to do but that’s ok. The tone of your comment says a lot about your character.
I’ll watch for your great success!
Sophia~
Sophia Yates
Dec 21st, 2009
Oh yes and it was a custom job lol! What of it?
We
Dec 21st, 2009
Oh thank god, SL has needed script limits for years.
I’m hoping especially that it kills off resizer scripts. I’m really hoping creators will realize that selling your products no mod doesn’t protect shit anymore than spamming !quit stops copybots. But considering there’s people out there still using that “!quit” thing, it seems unlikely that the rumor that no mod foils copybots will die anytime soon. All these people do is inconvenience their customers and lag sims with resizers. Frankly, they’re doing a better job of making SL a shittier place than the PN ever managed to do.
I remember putting in prim limits for lots was really unpopular at first, all the people who owned 512 sqm lots with 10,000 prims on it getting their knickers in a twist, but in the end, it really improved things. It sucked when you bought a lot in a sim, only to find out that all the prims had already been used by inconsiderate neighbors, leaving you with maybe 10 prims for your 16,000 sqm. lot. Scripts are the same way, you buy a lot in a mostly empty sim, only to find out that the sim is running 25 ms of script time for your neighbor’s sionChickens, resizers, and crappy decorations, leaving you with a laggy sim.
Rock Ramona
Dec 21st, 2009
wow sophia,i dont even know where to start here….i feel like the guy who stops to help a ladie change a flat tire in a bad neighborhood,warning her of the danger she may be in,and she turns around and yells at me then jumps in her car and takes off…..you were the one complaining about the evils of sl blowing up yer computer and how things better improve…and then you go off on this well im gonna leave ,,,but then i love it so dont you say bad things…is this a medication thing sophia?and btw i am a wonderful guy who has been here since beta,helping people for all these years and have never made an enemy.iam one of the people with a bad marriage of 26 years who gets bored and runs to another life to find friends and loved ones,iam am also disabled and live on morphine patches for pain.so you ask,then why do you have such an attiude about sl????ill tell you why…im an american and i love my country,but i distrust and hate my government,i have that right to do that,we should all question our government and leaders,just like we should with sl,we send them our hard earned money and we have the right to question them and speak against them when things are not right.i have worked for 4 huge software/gameing companys whose games are sitting on shelves all over the country.i know what it take a game or platform from start to finish,and i speak the truth about the shape ll is currently in,i never said ll was going broke,what i stated was the current shape the platform was in and that you are not going to see anything major change.now i know thats not what a lot of folks want to hear, but it is the truth.im a realist sophia,my dad made me that way after he spent 2 years in the jungles of vietnam as a mac v advisor,came home and told LBJ and the general staff that vietnam was a lost cause and we should begin removing our troops immediately…but im glad he raised me that way,some people would rather live like ostriches with their head in the sand dreaming of good things that arent really possible,i hope all work out for you sophia,come see me sometime in sl,and may God Bless,Merry Christmas!!!!
Faye Serendipity
Dec 21st, 2009
@Sophia Yates: It’d be alright if you were commenting on topic, but instead you’re spewing nonsense that scripts in SL fuck up hardware? With your tl;dr first post why exactly should we care? Then you give a lame attempt at a personal attack just because I think it’s *hillarious* that you wasted your fail PC? lol! Who gives a fuck about tone? Again, this isn’t your myspace. Please give some proof on how a script from SL sparked your monitor on fire. I also believe the lindens will do whatever they want, and if it isn’t what the majority of residents in SL want, they will depart to other virtual worlds. I’ve been expecting them for a while to scrap SL and make a new platform in which everyone would have to migrate. This hasn’t happened though because they clearly do have some restraints from the community. Or lack the resources.
Obvious Schism
Dec 22nd, 2009
Script limits and fried graphics cards are the least of our worries – I hear that Metaplace is closing
Sophia Yates
Dec 22nd, 2009
Faye I didn’t say my monitor caught fire. Read what I said. Get it straight. Rock you sent me packing lol. Listen this is not my personal blog Faye as you keep commenting. I’m commenting period so its longer than yours. Does it really bother you that much?
It seems anytime someone comments on this site they really get slammed with remarks that at times look like its a sport in here. I’m a nice person too Rock and why would you want to attack me right off and now turn it on me because I remarked right back?
Yes Second Life and running certain applications (like the client) can harm your hardware period. Do some reading. I don’t need to explain that.
I was in a region that was having an event. Many people wearing many things and many scripts running you would think just that being said “I was at an event” you would know what I meant and what the conditions possibly would be at the time.
There are 4 sims that share this one facility and most of the sims were packed. They all border each other. No one could move because it was bogged down. Why? Many scripts running.
The region had a restart I logged back in. The restart did not solve the situation of the severe lag and something was wrong. After struggling for sometime my screen went red and what we discovered is that it fried my graphics card. No I did not see fire and yes I have seen monitors a flame many times in my life time. But it wasn’t my monitor. It was probably a resister or capacitor that fried from the severe crash. It can happen.
The indication although that it was the graphics card were there on my screen. The tell tale signs of an ill graphics card.
Well Rock I’m sorry for your condition your still humam correct? I have many friends and some family members who are also disabled but they remain civil. Did you ever think what you wrote back first to me may have been taken as an insult?
And Faye I’m not on medication I wear glasses sometimes. Grow up. And while your at it clean up your mouth.
Yes I do have a love hate relationship for Second life because I have spent a lot of time and money as well in here. This subject irkes me as well.
It’s a business which I get and also they have sort of a partnership with the graphics card company was damged that is important information I think.
I posted the link on one my comments but it didn’t post for some reason. That was valuable information actually if any of you have nvidia video cards.
It is all about scripts. When you’re on a sim that also boarders other regions that run many scripts if effects you big time. I’ve run into this personally many many times. Ive experienced severe lag like everyone else and events are the worst. I wish it wasn’t the case.
I wish they would address the problem a different way because removing scripts ect is like putting SL back into the dark ages. What will it be like when they do this and for how long will we have to live with that? Will it be worth sticking around for it?
Most everything runs on scripts and it will be pretty boring to operate anything in SL without a script. It will be like the Flintstones.
I think if you spent the time to build a new system and get yourself up and running again and have that happen to you… you would be a little upset. With SL running the way it does now I don’t think eliminating scripts is going to solve the issue it will only remove people from remaining on the grid which could be an underlying agenda of LL who knows.
So my comments are a little long I don’t think that warrants others attacking people verbally for doing that and that’s what I got for sharing something that happened with me instead of possibly asking questions like for more details instead of laughs and sny remarks. If that’s how you get your kicks in life then good luck.
Why don’t you read your own comments a few times over and put yourself in the other persons position that it was directed at and how they would have taken it. Lots of class acts in SL for sure. That’s it. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
JustMe
Dec 23rd, 2009
RIP Metaplace … a failed attempt at bringing back 1980s graphics via the browser. Do I see any tears or sad face? /me looks around …. hmmm, I guess not
Keikok22
Dec 24th, 2009
At bottom, SL is essentially blaming its users for its own problems. The resizers are just the SL business community answering a need by their customers for products that are plug and play. I personally have stopped buying outfits with dresses that I know I will need to edit myself because I can never get them to look right. And I want to spend all my time in SL meeting people and playing than editing my clothes.
In addition, looking at SL’s purported user numbers should be a huge warning signal that they are not getting the job done infrastructurally because newbies run into the increasing lag, the crashes, the teleport breakdowns tyhat strand them, scads of empty sims, bogus search traffic numbers and griefers and just say the heck with it. If SL was doing things right their daily user numbers, as long as they have been around, should be ten times or more than what they are at present. Yet, they just cannot seem to get the hint. It’s about customer retention, Kingdon, look into it.
We live in a give me convenience or give me death culture, as Jello Biafra once put it. And SL just is not very convenient or intuitive.
Therefore, what SL needs to do is retool its entire machinery rather than continue to resort to an endless series of patchwork maneuvers with little big picture cohesion to them.
I recently spent in excess of L$15,000 for clothes and other items in world. If the viability to use those things is sabotaged by heavy handed and delusional actions by SL’s management, you will see not only me being pissed to high heaven, but more users, creators, merchants and everyday regular folks deleting SL from their lives.
SL is a sitting duck. It had better get its act together or it will be picked off eventually. The last action of a failing concern is usually to try to point the finger at the public for its failures as it heads into bankruptcy court while more visionary and managerially able firms start to dominate the marketplace. And so it goes at present with Linden Labs.
Swythe Armistice
Dec 24th, 2009
Script control is the best patch to SL all year.
There are tons of resource saving things in LSL that scriptwriters don’t seem to know about. Such as sending integers instead of strings through linked_messages. Or not date parsing your rent boxes (hippo-tech).
Should have done this years ago I think. Imagine all the griefing that could have been avoided?
Anonymous
Dec 24th, 2009
@Keikok22 – Wow, you’re an idiot.
Mitsu
Dec 24th, 2009
I’ve never posted a reply on linden blogs (They don’t care what you say) Or here – but I have to finally speak up and say – Sophia you’re the stupidest person on earth.. is that you Profk?
Scripts broke your computer…. scripts – server side language extensions of a game client (something you only see the results of) Fried something in your computer? You are the single most idiotic person EVER!
Please *do* leave SL – people like you are the reason it’s becoming so horrible ^_^ – hair brained fools who don’t know a processing core from a hole in the ground.. Just leave, trust me SL will be better without people as stupid as you, I have to bet the blackhole you call your brain causes SEVERE lag on any sim you’re in.
Sophia Yates
Dec 26th, 2009
Lets talk about heat. Ever notice when your CPU is working hard the heatsink fan spins faster. That’s because the little tiny transistors turning on and off are turning on and off much faster. When they do that more current is flowing through all the little tiny wires (like your brains). This causes heat. CPU’s have a heat rating on them. They don’t like heat. It causes them to fail. Same goes with video processors. Intense graphics causes the little tiny transistors to turn on and off much faster. Causing them to heat up and fail if they are not kept cool. The Nvidia GPU heatsink fans, at least the ones made a couple of years ago had single speed fans, thereby relying on case fans for additional cooling. Eventually all things fail if you keep hammering something long enough. Heat is the enemy of all electronic devices. All the intense graphics of second life and other video games cause heat. So the heat caused by the intense graphics of second life.
So thank you all for being so nice to me. Have a good Holiday
))
Sophia~
Orion
Dec 26th, 2009
@Sophia
Scripts make all the tiny little transistors inside the server at Linden start switching faster, not the ones on your PC.
Sophia Yates
Dec 26th, 2009
I give up lol you guys are really helpless…
dragonHotShot
Jan 5th, 2015
I am not sure if you know, there is a well known griefer that is known to fry your video cards with heavy graphic crashers. It is possible he or someone like him hit where you were. Just a thought!