Mayor of Victoriana: $30,000 Wasted, Lindens Killed The Dream
by Pixeleen Mistral on 24/03/10 at 3:25 am
LittleBlackDuck Lindsay – mayor of Victoriana and Tinytoriana – announced his departure from Second Life in a scathing pair of notecards distributed to residents of Victoriana’s 13 sims over the last two days. While this is a sad day for Linden Lab partisans, fans of LittleBlackDuck’s communities remain hopeful that Victoriana and Tinytoriana will be recontrsutced in OpenSim. The text of the mayor’s notecards are reproduced below.
Hi everyone,
This is to announce that The Nation of Victoriana is closing.
I’ve been a SecondLife citizen since July 2006 and have seen many wonderful things come (and go) on this grid. Over the past twelve months I can’t help but notice the "cons" of living and working on a Linden grid far outweigh the benefits. DAILY grid issues with logins, transactions, inventory and lag, continually spoil everyone’s experience. I personally have lost a considerable amount of inventory over the past twelve months alone, something nobody enjoys. Reports from friends and residents of Victoriana tell me I’m not alone here either.
As most of you are aware Linden recently "screwed the pooch" with my permissions in Victoriana during a recent "maintenance update"; effectively disabling my ability to manage, repair and improve the estate by setting almost everything to ‘no modify’ (yes stuff I built and owned, which makes up the majority of everything in the estate). After numerous attempts via Concierge Chat and support ticket application, Linden failed to correct the issue after fourteen days… they didn’t even have the decency to contact me about the problem, or even move the ticket beyond "New" status (ie they didn’t bother to look at it). As you also know I sent out notices keeping everyone up-to-date about the status and eventually explained I would have to rebuild much of the estate from scratch and ‘fix the problem myself’. This lacklustre response from Linden has brought to light a great deal of uncertainty in our little community about the future of Victoriana and the Linden grid itself. I’ve seen a number of people in the past few weeks re-evaluate their own personal investment in SecondLife, and sadly a number of them have chosen to leave the grid for fear of losing everything they’ve invested money in. It’s a very very sad thing to see good people go (especially long-termers who’ve been around for a while) for fear of "what will happen to them" come the next maintenance rollout/asset server failure/grid issue.
Since then it’s been more daily issues with logins, lag, asset server/inventory problems, you get the picture. It’s not enough that IMs are capped (making it really tough for an estate owner to communicate with people) but it seems now Notecards are not working correctly either. I’ve sent a number of notecards to residents the past two weeks and am told most never received them, and have not received a number of communications that people have sent me. How anyone is expected to run a business, community or even take this grid seriously is beyond me.
Linden is working hard to improve the experience for new users on the grid, something I feel very passionately about, however in the process of changing their mind on how to achieve this every five minutes, they are effectively hurting everyone involved and destabilising the economy. Recently we saw Linden introduce "free homes to Premium members" which, while basic and really aimed at the newbies joining the grid, has effectively devalued any land or sims people have spent their hard earned money on. Why buy a plot of land for a home when you can get it for free? If you’re a landholder, congrats, your plot is now worth much less than it was in January. If you’re a homebuilder, congrats, why would someone buy your houses when they can get one for free? For someone that owns a sim or an estate of sims, right down to someone who runs a business selling houses, your hard work and effort is now worth a lot less. Anyone trying to run a rental business is pretty screwed now, too.
Linden also ‘dumped’ the mentor programme and mentors (a team of residents, like you, who offered their time for FREE to assist people with questions and generally help as needed). Linden is now in the process of dumping the gateway program completely too (so people in the know tell me), effectively saying "screw you" to residents and estate owners who invested their own time and money to set up. I fortunately don’t own a gateway, however I do know three people who do, and know how much of their own personal time and money they invested setting it up so that newcomers to the grid could have a fantastic ‘first five minute experience" (effectively doing Linden’s work for them). This expensive effort is all now null and void; a waste of time and investment because Linden have changed their mind again.
I’m pretty disgusted about the current state of affairs regarding DMCA on the grid too. I don’t blame Linden for copybots being created/used (by a very small number of bad eggs on a very large populous of accounts), Linden should be applauded for opening up the viewer code to public licence allowing others to tinker and improve the viewer with new features and speed. The fact a very small handful of people chose to tinker with the code to exploit permissions and allow a small handful of people to copybot the hard work of others is hardly Linden’s fault. I am terribly concerned about the lack of support content creators seem to receive when they report to Linden that their work is stolen. Anyone fancy a grey-market turtle? How about a whole sim of builds? I read day after day about content creators complaining X or Y is being copied by someone and they are not getting any support from Linden. Who will be next? I’ve personally had some of my builds copied and ended up chasing the offender myself to resolve the issue, now things are getting even easier to copy and even harder to get effective action taken, I see creating content on this grid a total game of cat-and-mouse if you expect your items to remain your items. "Word on the street" tells me Linden will be locking out all viewers other than their own some time mid-year in an effort to stamp out copybots. This means no more fantastic features in Emerald, no more model bots in your fashion store and no more innovation or improvement to the viewer beyond what Linden chose to give us. Why stifle the creativity of many when you only need to chase after a handful of offenders? Why is it taking so long for something to be done about this issue when all that needs to be done is investigation/deletion/accounts locked? DMCA and copying goes far beyond a simple copybot/hacked client, too. I’ve seen cases where ‘people’ have copied by hand, builds by "Four Winds" (for example) that are prim-by-prim identical down to the nearest 0.01m and have simply thrown on a slightly different texture and called it an original. The shape, size, layout and overall design has been stolen (and badly textured) for resale. Again where’s the DMCA love for the person who spent so much time creating the original?
I have now come to realise that running an estate or investing any kind of time or money on a Linden-run grid in it’s current form is for chumps, so I’m leaving whilst I still can.
Let me be totally clear on what I am saying and sum up why Victoriana is closing:
* I currently have a LOT of REAL WORLD dollars invested on this grid
* I have no problem covering the tier for all 13 sims if need be, as this is (was) a labour of love project for me (I like to build). I have never had an agenda for a "full estate" and would rather have a half full sim of friendly, fun, community-minded residents than "just any avatar" here to fill in the gaps.
* A recent maintenance update broke my permissions in Victoriana, and Linden Labs did nothing to fix it after repeated requests, indicating this is not only an unfixable problem (or one they don’t care about) but one that if it happens again I’m S.O.L
* Since the permissions "issue" a number of Victoriana residents have contacted me; unsure about the stability or continuity of the estate/the Linden grid, given Linden’s lacklustre efforts to resolve things
* Over my time in SecondLife I’ve also lost a large quantity of inventory during grid-related issues or maintenance updates, effectively like ‘throwing money into the furnace" as I’ve never been able to get any of it back.
* According to reports from others, I’m not alone with the inventory loss issue, and apparently not alone in the perms scenario either
* It is becoming impossible to conduct any form of business, or assist anyone here; ongoing communication problems, lag, L$ issues, grid issues
* Linden Labs is trying it’s best to improve the grid experience for people, however in the process is devaluing any money or time anyone has put into the place already; making it a poor investment opportunity and an unstable future business prospect
* Ongoing grid issues, and an uncertain future about what rules of the game Linden are going to change ‘next’, make this grid an unstable environment for anyone to conduct a large-scale project such as Victoriana, expecting it to survive intact more than a few weeks
* Linden’s apparent lack of interest in DMCA issues via copybot use means I can’t trust that if I log in tomorrow my hard work won’t be sold by someone else, and if it is, anything will be done to rectify the situation by Linden
* I have not made this decision lightly
* Nobody else (Other than Davey McDowwll) was aware I was making this decision until receiving this notice. Many people are aware I am unhappy with Linden Labs’ lack of support and care for residents on the grid but this decision was mine and mine alone to make.
* This is not a ‘poor me’ issue. This is a "I have a concern that every time I log in I won’t have inventory/an estate/a business/the ability to do anything as promised" issue
* This is also a "I have fears that my residents and storekeeps will be greatly affected by the above issues which are all out of my control and how the hell do I help them if so" issue
What does this mean for you?
* Everyone’s rentbox has been locked
* Anyone with overdue rent will have their items returned asap and will be banned from the estate, this includes landholders. Just because you’re overdue in rent doesn’t mean Linden won’t charge me tier for the sim, grow up and take responsibility for your decision to rent/live/work here (or anywhere on the grid)
* Everyone is asked to "collect their stuff" asap or else it will be returned to your lost+found folder
* SHOPKEEPS: As you empty your store, any remaining rent will be refunded
* RESIDENTIAL RENTERS: As you empty your home, any remaining rent will be refunded
* LAND OWNERS: Anyone who owns land "not" for sale, your rent will be refunded and your land "bought back" for half it’s original value, this seems to be the current going rate these days in this shitty economy++
* There are over 400 individual rentboxes across the estate, I will endeavour to tend to everyone as soon as I can re:the above
++If the above sounds unfair, that’s life. In the past when people have been ejected due to antisocial activities they were always refunded any remaining rent owing and paid full amount for their land value (contrary to what they told everyone) before being banned from the estate. Due to Linden’s devaluing land through "Free Homes" and overall poor economy performance, the value of a plot of land is worth much less today, so "half it’s original value" is more than fair. Welcome to the Linden grid.
Given Linden have closed all but the most basic of forum topics now (hiding something are we LL?) there’s no decent place to list "sims for sale" any more. Victoriana was always planned as a COMMUNITY estate; when full sims in Victoriana _break even_ (ie I kept the prices low so more people could enjoy the place and I don’t make a profit, like other estates) as this project was a labour of love for me. The tier I have collected over two years has helped ease the cost of this project but was never planned to fully cover it (let alone make a profit from it). Linden killed that dream. I’ve spent over US$30,000 on this project over the past two years. That’s my own money; any tier I collected from people (when they did pay their rent) went towards the additional costs on top of that, so if you feel you’re wasting your money put things in perspective. Buying out everyone and refunding any rent is going to cost even more, as I suspect the chance of any resale value of the 13 sims that make up Victoriana will be non-existent now Linden don’t provide estate owners anywhere to advertise sims for sale.
I’d like to take this opportunity to thank the (sadly) small number of genuine people I’ve met over my time running Victoriana, that have contributed towards the estate in a positive way. Some residents have held events, submitted freebies or Victoriana-branded items for others to enjoy, acted as greeters tirelessly helping newcomers to the estate, or even just attended events and made them a fun and fond memory. A big thanks to all the residents who often sent me a quick IM or Notecard out of the blue saying "Hiya" for no reason other than to be friendly, it always made my day that someone would say hello and not expect something in return other than a cheery greeting. Thank you for your time, efforts and for generally helping to make Victoriana a fun place for me and everyone to visit.
Off to OpenSim I go…
Best wishes (Unless you work for Linden Labs),
LittleBlackDuck Lindsay
Mayor of Victoriana and Tinytoriana
&
Davey McDowwll
Advisor to the Mayor
P.S As an estate owner I’ve had to deal with a number of challenges over Victoriana’s 2+ years on the grid. Constant poaching from other estates (you know who you are, don’t play innocent, everyone knows who you are too) has been a particular thorn in my side, especially given I’ve never attempted such low tactics as this, in any form. This includes estates and estate managers who send alts to buy small parcels of land in Victoriana and then befriend/poach all their neighbours around them. Try being more discreet when you pull this stunt on other estates next time. People talk you know.
Hi Everyone,
This is a follow-up note to my announcement yesterday that Victoriana is closing.
* Yes, Victoriana is closing
* No, it’s not staying
* No it’s not being sold
* No, there is no point convincing me to reconsider, because I think I made myself very clear about why in my lengthy and verbose notecard yesterday, but thanks for asking 
Means a lot to me that people liked what I did here and do not wish to see it disappear
* I am not donating anything to anyone. Please don’t ask, it’s in rather poor taste given the circumstances
* I have not given out anybody’s name to other estate owners as potential leads
* Everyone is getting a refund/bought out as previously described, they are lying if they say they are not
* Whilst still in ‘alpha’ development and very buggy, OpenSim is a viable alternative for my needs
* Yes I’m rather devastated Victoriana is going too. Over two years of my life and a lot of very hard work and passion was put into this estate.
I’m very concerned a number of Residents and Shopkeeps are telling me they have been ‘cold called’ by other estate managers/owners (especially from Victorian-themed estates) asking them to move to their estate. I want to make it perfectly clear – I have not given out any names of any residents who live or work in Victoriana to anyone. If you have been cold-called or approached by someone from another estate offering to "do you a deal" or "move to my estate", that is their own doing; most likely by wandering Victoriana like a vulture and picking off the carcases left. This isn’t too different to my comment yesterday about poaching that continually plagued me throughout the 2 years Victoriana existed, although now they are telling you they are "doing you a favour". I repeat… I have not given a list of names of residents or members of Victoriana to anyone and do not plan on doing so.
I also want to make clear I am not selling the estate to anyone. It is being packed up and each empty sim sold off. I don’t know where or why people got the idea I am selling the estate to Panacea Luminos, so please disregard any rumours I am. I made it very clear to Panacea the first time she offered to buy the estate last year I am not interested, and also made it perfectly clear the second time she convinced two of my closest SL friends to try and ‘trick’ me into selling it to an "unknown buyer" which I am later told is her. Please disregard any rumours you hear things are being transferred over to her as they are false. I am no longer speaking to the three people involved, so they are false if they say they are "in communication with me" too. Please also note – my policy of "buying out and refunding" landowners applied to them back when they were asked to leave Victoriana, so the rumours they were ejected and never got a cent back are untrue no matter what they say.
I’d also like to point out that everyone (yes everyone) is being "bought out" and all rents are being refunded, so to those people who are spreading rumours that I’m a shonky operator and they got nothing back, thanks. You’ve made it easy on me to leave this grid. I am refunding all residents and storekeeps as they move out, so if you have not received a payment yet you either haven’t collected your things or I’ve not gotten to your plot. Please be patient, there’s a lot of people to assist, a lot of IMs to answer, and a few credit cards to max out. Once again I’d like to confirm that everyone is getting a refund on any remaining rent as they move out, and anyone with an investment in land is getting bought out as per my previous notecard.
Many thanks to the people who have sent me well-wishes. It’s really appreciated in this time of despair and really means a lot to me. I’m terribly sorry for all those people who have shared similar experiences with me too, I do hope this kinda thing doesn’t happen to anyone else however the magic 8-ball disagrees. To those who have been rude and, well, "how dare you" or "it’s all about me"… thanks for making my decision to close all the easier.
Thank you to the people who have suggested other Opensim grids to explore, I’m certainly going to look at my options. As of now I run a small OpenSim grid in my own home for my own private use and a version of Victoriana will exist there. Whilst it is buggy and just as unreliable as this particular grid, it’s also a darned sight cheaper, and the non-existent support is the same on both grids.
Best wishes,
LittleBlackDuck Lindsay
<former> Mayor of Victoriana and Tinytoriana
DarkAngel
Mar 25th, 2010
This makes me feel really sad, I never knew you personally really, as I dont explore any sims in SL really, Im more of a combat type of person, but I understand where your comming from. And Believe me when I say this, Open Sim will probabily have the same problems before long if one of those should get too popular. Honestly there may not fully be a way to sotp copybots anymore, except hope from completely new games like Blue mars.
Over one year on the main grid, I have witnessed everything you have told me, The Rude Residents, The Copybots espically I met Tons of them, and reported many of them. Our own Creators Harming our Grid like skills CDS system causing wars, and banning innocent people just for using a viewer he didn’t like with no way to appeal because you really did use a illegal viewer before his system came out, and all of this stuff. I too have lost lots of money, Lost a lot of broken inventory items, and Witnessed Linden Labs take no action against Griefers on estates who verbally abused me many times, and saw the griefing themselfs.
However when I got abuse reported back they send me a warning in my email stating that if I make anymore abuse reports against the person without really hard evidence I could get into trouble. I mean the Linden lab Simulators are getting insane, espically with free homes, and I am thinking about getting rid of my simulators too becuase I am paying a lot for it, and making nothing out of it due to all the reasons mentioned above.
Linden Lab also allows residents to Scan peoples clients and client data without concent from another resident.
WTF?
Mar 26th, 2010
The Linden homes program is a wonderful one. I will never rent from a private party again. I at one time leased half an homestead on a private estate. I had my tier prepaid by two month.
One day I logged on to the homestead being gone from the sever. The owner decided to get rid of the sim and leave SL
I recieved no refund. So when you rent from a private party, you always have to worry if that person is going to log on one day and sell their estates and say the hell with the people renting from them.
At least this guy was nice enough to give some of what he took from his customers back.Even though his problems with Linden Labs should not have been thrown onto them too making it their problem also. I wonder how many of them now are going to be quick to lease land again from a private estate? More than likely the ones who would believe that I have” ocean front property in Arizona,” like the song says. for sale.
Gaara Sandalwood
Mar 26th, 2010
Ironically for some reason I’ve seen empty rental sims stick around since I began playing SL.
And yea Wayfinder does have a lot of logic in that post. I mean shit, the owner of the club I regular in world when I bother to get on pays around 200 USD a month just to keep it. Some people will literally pour money into it just for the experience of SL and the virtual world as well.
brandon
Mar 26th, 2010
You can have mainland all you want. have at it. It still sucks more than estates. I can’t help it your to fucking broke to afford your own island/places. Whiners all of you one and all. go take that tiny good for nothing 512 or linden home and go live like a sardine. \o/
WTF?
Mar 26th, 2010
No wining here. besides, who needs a home? what do you log on at home to stay in your home?
I am not speaking of affordibility. I am talking about estate owners who sell or abandon their sims right out from uder their renters.
I have no sympathy for sim owners who pack up all butt hurt and leave their renters hanging.
You don’t like the mainland? good stay out of it and your dumb ass wont be lagging it down.
RLV User
Mar 26th, 2010
I lost my 1/4 homestead too when the sim owner left SL.
Darien Caldwell
Mar 26th, 2010
Yes, it’s small.
Facebook – 400 million active users
Twitter – 350 million active users
WoW – 12 million active users
Second Life – less than 2 million (and probably even less, if alts were discounted)
Companies only care about making money, and you make money from users. And SL just doesn’t have the numbers. It’s a niche.
Darien Caldwell
Mar 26th, 2010
Even if you limit to simply other niche virtual worlds, SL still comes out the loser:
IMVU – 100 million registered users, 6 million unique monthly visitors
SL – see above
Unfortunately, there’s not a lot of other to compare to, as virtual worlds close with regularity lately. It’s natural as a market goes from maturity to old age, that the weaker don’t survive and consolidation occurs.
SL is pretty strong, I don’t expect it to go anywhere anytime soon. But certainly companies aren’t lining up to buy it or try to emulate it’s lackluster business model. Here in the valley, everyone wants to be the next Google, not the next Second Life.
Wayfinder
Mar 26th, 2010
Darien: “Facebook – 400 million active users
Twitter – 350 million active users
WoW – 12 million active users
Second Life – less than 2 million (and probably even less, if alts were discounted)”
Good… now we’re chatting rather than flinging barbs and arrows. Much better. : )
I agree with you. In truth, I’ve written numerous blogs agreeing with what you’ve pointed out here. While I don’t believe Second Life is “small” (hard to call a $5 million a month company “small”), I can’t argue against the point you’re making… that comparing it with other online communities… it’s definitely minor league.
Now, people will defend SL against WoW and claim it’s “apples and oranges”… and to an extent they’re right. But to an extent they’re wrong, since they’re vying for the same audience: people who spend most of their free time in online worlds. So in that aspect, Wow is a direct competitor, and in that aspect, WoW makes SL look teeny. So yeah, no argument there.
In a blog I wrote recent, I pointed out how Linden Lab has strangled not only the growth of Second Life, but VR growth in general by diverting valuable talent resources that might otherwise have been used in more productive areas. If managed correctly, rather than a measely 24k sims (half of which are low-power homesteads), Linden Lab could be hosting hundreds of thousands of sims. But severe incompetence in areas of coding and management have prevented and strangled potential growth.
The result, while not “small” by right of profit, is indeed Darien, small in comparison to what they could have been. So in light of the point you’re making, I’ll agree with you. SL could surely have done much better. Those who think Linden Lab is leading the way to the future are imo, exactly wrong. If anything, they’re part of what is preventing VR from taking hold on a widespread global scale.
Here’s my original blog post if you’d like to examine:
http://elfclan.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-end-of-the-dreamblocking
All Seeing Eye
Mar 26th, 2010
LL isn’t the smallest fish in the pond but Kingdon is working hard to win the race to the bottom.
VENTURE-BACKED COMPANY INDEX VALUES
Facebook $11.96B neutral 0.00%
Lindenlab $383M down -0.96%
Linkedin $1.41B up 5.24%
Seriousmaterials $222M down -2.39%
Teslamotors $1.63B up 27.23%
Twitter $1.47B up 2.42%
Zynga $2.61B neutral 0.00%
Dan
Mar 27th, 2010
@Wayfinder
Great reading from your blog posted above.
I have wanted my own Homestead and would buy one tomorrow if allowed to by one by itself with out having to own a class 5 sim with it. I do not trust private party sales that can turn sour later down the road.
On another note, leasing or owning your own server with the proper software and then linking that to Linden Labs servers for a small fee would even be a nicer option. Maybe the Labs will pull their heads out and allow a option like this in the near future.
Mimika Oh
Mar 27th, 2010
I repeat my pick #9:
“Second Life is a free online virtual world imagined and created by its Residents.” But its god is a US corportation who will change the rules according to their own goals without consulting you. You are wise to remember this before you invest too much here.
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia
Mar 27th, 2010
@ All Seeing Eye: Citation needed.
@ Anybody who knows OpenSim:
I’m pretty good at getting around SL. I’ve been here since late 06 and run a popular sandbox, I build and code, you know, full skill set and all that. When I say I have problems with OpenSim, it’s not because I’m a complete noob. That said:
Last time I logged into OS was sometime in October 09, so it’s been a little while. Here is what I remember of it:
When I go to OpenSim I simply don’t know where to go or what to do. I feel like a noob with nobody around to give me advice. I open search and try to look up something, anything, and get nothing. I look around the map, try to TP around and the TP always fails or drops me in a weird dead space. Ground collision is all wonky so my knees are always half bent, and last I checked not all LSL commands work in Open Sim.
I’d love to ditch LL and go to OS, but if I can’t survive the new user experience on OS I doubt that many others will either. If these things get fixed in OS I’ll go back and give it another try:
1. Fix search so it shows something. I don’t care if it’s a little buggy or based completely on traffic ratings or whatever, just make it show me somewhere I can go. Also, I don’t care if I am able to join 50 or 100 groups or whatever, because if I can’t find groups in search I can’t actually join any of them.
2. Fix TPs
3. Fix ground collisions
4. Fix the scripting. If I can’t code I’m going to get bored and move on after a day or two, I don’t care what else you have going on.
Ted
Mar 27th, 2010
Bubblesort wrote:
“I’d love to ditch LL and go to OS, but if I can’t survive the new user experience on OS I doubt that many others will either. If these things get fixed in OS I’ll go back and give it another try:
1. Fix search so it shows something. I don’t care if it’s a little buggy or based completely on traffic ratings or whatever, just make it show me somewhere I can go. Also, I don’t care if I am able to join 50 or 100 groups or whatever, because if I can’t find groups in search I can’t actually join any of them.
2. Fix TPs
3. Fix ground collisions
4. Fix the scripting. If I can’t code I’m going to get bored and move on after a day or two, I don’t care what else you have going on.”
1) Search isn’t needed to get around but you can setup your own search or use the map. Most grids only have less than a cluster of 100 sims. It’s easy to get where you want with the map.
2) Teleporting works fine. Either with scripts within a sim (not really teleporting) or sim to sim. Works just fine.
3) ODE does need some tweaking and work no doubt. I’ll give you that one.
3) I have over a hundred scripts that work in os. Some fairly complicated. There are some lsl functions that are not implemented yet. But you can also set up the server for c# and osl languages.
Ted
Mar 27th, 2010
Correction: osl was supposed to be ossl short for open source scripting language.
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia
Mar 27th, 2010
I think I asked the question wrong. Apparently, search is not as important in OS as it is in SL.
So, lets say I want to find a jazz club, or a quiet sandbox community, or say I want to find a particular kind of roleplay in OS, like Harry Potter or Gor or Avatar or something.
How do I find it? Do I have to already know where I’m going before I log in? Like, is there a web site that will let me search registered open grids so I can find what I’m interested in before I go to it? Once I choose the right grid to log into is there a way to know where on that grid I want to be or do I just have to look at the map and guess what kind of land formation an Avatar RP sim would have?
Also, I assume the only way to find groups is through profile surfing? Do the groups work between open grids at all, or are the groups limited to each individual cluster?
Wayfinder
Mar 27th, 2010
Dan, you have a pretty clear view of how things work on SL. Mimika was right in the reply to you. Second Life is a fascinating environment that is governed by a corporation that historically has exhibited nothing but self-serving, arbitrary and knee-jerk tendencies (as indicated in the blog above). In 2009 they made a single decision that resulted in wiping out 20% of the sims on Second Life. In my opinion, SL is one of the worst investments a person can make. Linden Lab is a totally narcissistic entity with little concern for its customers. Their word means nothing, their ethics non-existent.
Bubble, you’re right on all counts. Ted was also right in his responses (although I can’t much agree with him that scripting is working all that great). Still, different people have different experiences on different grids.
The primary thing to realize is that OpenSim is a “pioneering spirit” project. It is very much in Alpha stage (but then, so is Second Life, despite the claims from Linden Lab). There are many things on OpenSim that don’t work (just as there are many things on Second Life that don’t work… after 6 years online). There are things on OpenSim that do work. Despite its flaws, we are seeing people build and creating communities there. It’s still very much in infancy stage. There seems to be a lot of ego-drama and infighting going on in the OpenSim coding project… but things are still getting done (although very slowly).
When you visit an OpenSim (my personal favorites are Reaction Grid and Inworldz…. but others may have different favorites), rather than expecting it to be a sprawling city with nightclubs and stores and all manner of things, consider it more like a frontier where you’ll need to go exploring. Like you, it took me a bit to figure that out. But once I realized that instead of searching for people and activity I needed to explore the countryside and get used to the layout… I realized there is quite a bit out there.
In Reaction Grid you can visit Elf Haven as a start. In Inworldz you can visit ElvenHolde. Neither is very populated, but you can see some builds and terraformed lands and see what’s possible.
The primary advantage of OpenSim is plain: no Linden Lab. Because of this, you have a distinct advantage (depending on the grid):
Second LIfe: $295 a month, 15,000 prims, 10m prim limits, 30m link limits, $1000 setup fee.
OpenSim: $75 a month, 45,000 prims, pliable megaprims, no link limits, minimal setup fee.
If one is willing to get away from the “excitement” of Second Life (part of which is wondering what the blazes Linden Lab is going to do next to destroy our investments)… once we get away from the club mentality and stores and constant events… what we discover instead is peace, harmony, and room to breathe.
Open Sim is remarkably devoid of griefers (mainly because the griefers seem to respect rebels who challenge Linden Lab), it’s remarkably devoid of trash (primarily I think, because those who support OpenSim are serious about what they’re doing), and it’s remarkably devoid of knee-jerk, asinine, half-baked policies based solely on profit-oriented goals. And amazingly, when you file a support ticket someone will answer, and pretty durn quick… whether you’re a paying user or not.
There are advantages to Second Life to be sure… but Linden Lab is working hard at removing those advantages one by one. There are advantages to OpenSim… if one has the pioneering spirit and is willing to put up with and learn to work around a different set of bugs. In the end, one has to decide what we’re in VR for… and go with what’s best for us. But one thing I can say:
While I would not myself invest at all in Second Life, I have no qualms in investing in OpenSim.
My group has lost significant $$$ doing “business” with Linden Lab. They’ve lied to us, they’ve ripped us off (as well as thousands of other users), they’ve made fraudulent claims and were directly responsible for us being forced to shut down 6 of our 8 sims (along with the 5,500 other people who had to do the same thing because of LL management jackasses). Of course they refunded nothing.
Linden Lab appears to care about one thing: Linden Lab. Elf Clan is 5+ years old and was the first large theme group on Second LIfe. They have shown me and my group zero respect and considerable damage. A member of my group hosts two sims and while my group (via numerous members) rents out those two sims from him (not from Linden Lab), I personally will never again invest another dime directly with Linden Lab. I simply do not trust them; they have betrayed their customers too many times. Their platform is unstable, their coding shoddy, their management abusive. Second Life is an “investment” for people with money to throw away.
On the other hand, we have lands on two OpenSim grids, one of them for almost a year… and haven’t lost a dime, nor have we had any grid owner lie to us or deceive us. The bugs we can live with (there are certainly enough bugs on Second Life). OpenSim is moderately functional, less expensive by far, and management is friendly and supportive. Most of all, OpenSim grids care very much about their customers. I think that says it all right there.
Wayfinder
Mar 27th, 2010
BTW, if anyone thinks Duck is alone, our group estimates that in our 5 year history, we’ve lost some $15,000 to $17,000 in Second Life “investments”. The only reason I even mess with Second Life anymore is because of the welfare of my group. If not for that, I’d be outta there and good riddance.
I have to believe we are not the only group to lose vast amounts of money to that company– which is why we are making zero further investment in that grid. Prior to their OpenSim fiasco we were planning on hosting a mini-continent. Instead, we shut down six sims and canceled all further plans for expansion… permanently. No more investments in Second Life. We simply do not trust Linden Lab to honor and protect our investments. Imo, they are a dishonorable company.
Gundel Gaukelei
Mar 27th, 2010
@Wayfinder
And it took you 17k$ to find that out? I could have told you for free.
Wayfinder
Mar 27th, 2010
LOL Gundel. Yeah, it is kinda sad isn’t it? What’s really sad is that despite my normal caution and knowing Linden Lab’s background, I just plain never expected them to make as boneheaded a move as the OpenSim fiasco. I blindly told myself, “Even Linden Lab wouldn’t be that stupid.” I assure all, I woke up that day. Now I put NOTHING past that company and prepare for the worst.
Wayfinder
Mar 27th, 2010
BTW, if anyone out there is still unaware, here’s the next “bone headed move” that we all want to prepare for:
http://elfclan.ning.com/profiles/blogs/limitation-of-backup-rights
Cittadinanza nei mondi online: ieri, oggi domani. @ Lucania Lab
Mar 27th, 2010
[...] grid di Second Life. Una delle notizie che ha toccato di recente il mondo creato da Linden è la chiusura di Victoriana e Tinytorian, due community abbastanza note gestite, nella funzione di sindaco delle due città virtuali da [...]
Serendipity Seraph
Mar 29th, 2010
I am very sorry to see you go. You are one the cornerstone types of this world that make it great. I am surprised about one thing. Why not sell the estate if you can find a decent buyer? You would be out a lot less money and all your residents would not have to go through the turmoil of being uprooted and relocating. So it seems on the face of it like a win-win. Judging by the quality of your post it was not a decision made lightly to not sale. Would you mind sharing your reason?
WTF?
Mar 29th, 2010
“Would you mind sharing your reason?”
Less drama if he simply sold the estate and business went on like normal. It is almost SL news worthy to close it down and cause people to have to relocate. This is why renting from a private party is such a risk.
Evachangin
Mar 29th, 2010
What is it about people not reading the obvious ??????
The original was NOT posted by the ex Mayor of Victoriana !!!!
Mayor of Victoriana: $30,000 Wasted, Lindens Killed The Dream
by Pixeleen Mistral on 24/03/10 at 3:25 am
Mind blowing lack of information checking in this thread !!
Maria Korolov
Mar 29th, 2010
I’m tracking more than 40 major OpenSim grids right now, totaling around 10,000 regions.
Prices for full regions start at less than $20 a month.
I recommend ReactionGrid for folks interested in education in business, OSGrid for folks interested in technology, and there are a number of regional grids in Europe for Italians, Germans, French speakers, etc…
Another significant option for groups and businesses is to start your own grid. There’s no additional cost. And with hypergrid, you can teleport in and out to most of the other grids, and your friends and customers can teleport in from their grids. It’s available now, and it works.
Here’s our hierarchical directory (Yahoo-style) of some of the world’s hypergrid-enabled destinations. We’re currently indexing more than 80 regions on 29 different grids, and we just started a few days ago:
http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/worlds/
You can start on any of these grids and teleport to any others of these grids — with your avatar and access to your inventory — without having to login again. No creating new user accounts for each grid. And you can shop on one grid, and bring things home to your own grid. There’s even a hypergrid-enabled currency, the OMC, from Virwox, which is currently accepted on four different grids. (Other retailers accept PayPal Micropayments, or use any of a number of grid-only currencies or other third-party currencies.)
– Maria Korolov
Editor, Hypergrid Business
Shakespears Sister
Mar 30th, 2010
I do so love the “I lost money Rants”
What your really saying is “I expected to make a shedload of cash but made some really stupid decisions and now I’m blaming someone else”
Opengrid welcomes you with open arms!
SL recap of March 2010 « Daniel Voyager's Blog
Mar 30th, 2010
[...] The removal of 13 sims — collectively known as Victoriana — from the Grid – March 25 [...]
WTF?
Mar 30th, 2010
@ Wayfinder
“BTW, if anyone out there is still unaware, here’s the next “bone headed move” that we all want to prepare for:
http://elfclan.ning.com/profiles/blogs/limitation-of-backup-rights”
Today I tested the emerald viewer on a full perm Item and it allowed me to copy it then imort it back into SL naming me as the creater.
According to the LL policy on 3rd party viewers. Emerald is not following the guidlines and now it is a rougue/copybot viewer.
You better add emerald to the cds ban system since it is also a bad viewer now.
Dan
Mar 30th, 2010
Well that makes skills hacks the pot calling the kettle black now.
Typical of a fur-fag.
Wayfinder
Mar 30th, 2010
Shakespear’s Sister: I do so love the “I lost money Rants” What your really saying is “I expected to make a shedload of cash but made some really stupid decisions and now I’m blaming someone else”
So yet another dysfunctional troll making un-verified and baseless statements. What Sissy, you just pull whatever you want off the top of your head and that becomes your reality? Linden hugger.
http://elfclan.ning.com/profiles/blogs/trolls-moles
Wayfinder
Mar 30th, 2010
@WT: “Today I tested the emerald viewer on a full perm Item and it allowed me to copy it then imort it back into SL naming me as the creater.”
Yeah, I totally agree. I think people should have the right to back up their inventory. I also believe Linden Lab should have provided that ability long ago.
I don’t believe the scenario you described above should be allowed. When an item is backed up and restored, the original creator name should go along with it. I’ve blogged about that before on our site. Unfortunately, without Linden Lab’s cooperation, all backup methods are in reality hacks, with Linden Lab leading the way (their texture backup system does exactly the same thing). This is a company that knows as much about property rights and security as they know about proper customer support and debugging, namely: zip. Sadly.
Ted
Mar 30th, 2010
“I don’t believe the scenario you described above should be allowed. When an item is backed up and restored, the original creator name should go along with it. I’ve blogged about that before on our site. ”
For what purpose? All one would have to do is change the UUID and prior owner name in the database. No big deals. Doesn’t make sense to export with prior user names.
Wayfinder
Mar 30th, 2010
@Ted “All one would have to do is change the UUID and prior owner name in the database.”
Valid concern, especially with LL’s historically bad security measures. I had considered mentioning using a heavily encrypted database, but forgot to add that point.
A few years ago, something happened at LL that compromised their user database. What was most alarming about that database is that it wasn’t encrypted. I believe after that they started encrypting that information… but who knows? Could be they took the easy way out and just patched that particular security leak. No way of knowing for sure. But historically, their security just stinks. (Any sim owner can attest to that.)
But yeah, to make database backup possible, it would have to be encrypted to prevent exactly what you’ve described. The issue of whether such things could be ported outside of SL or not is irrelevant. The idea is people having a back up of their inventory in case Linden Lab asset servers destroy something, or alternately change permissions (which happens just as often). I finally was forced to use copybot when SL one day change the permissions on two complex builds of mine to NOMOD.
Frankly, if LL asset handling was what it should be and the permissions issues worked properly, we wouldn’t need backup. Except in one case: what happens if Linden Lab goes out of business and Second Life shuts down? What happens to all of our hard work then?
The answer of course, is to allow us to make full, local-hard disc backups of items that we ourselves create. If a builder has been generous enough (or foolish enough) to release his items to the grid full perm, well, that’s his decision. There are things LL could do do protect content, but they don’t and won’t (other than obvious knee-jerk pendulum-swing decisions).
All this is of course, pretty off-topic (discussions have ways of taking a life all their own). But in this case… this was a guy with 13 sims that (from what I understand) had two sims worth of builds turn suddenly no-mod… with Linden Lab totally failing / refusing to rectify the situation. Frankly, I think him shutting down those sims is a valid business response: you don’t support your customer, you lose your customer. He decided to refund half the land purchase price of his renters, which I consider to be fairly generous considering he wasn’t obligated to make any refunds at all. Land shutdowns happen on SL every day of the week with no refunds at all. So those blasting him for making half-refunds imo are just trolls sticking their nose in other people’s business.
Everyone I have spoken to who knows Duck has good things to say about him. His community really liked him and his lands. Some are moving with him to OpenSim. The closing party they held to honor Duck and Victoriana filled the sim to capacity. So what can I say? Guy does business with company. Company fails to provide proper service. Guy decides to stop doing business with company. Not the first time Linden Lab has lost customers for reasons of corporate attitude and failure to provide service. Won’t be the last. I’ll say again: in 2009, Linden Lab lost 20% of the sims on Second Life due to abusive management. If they didn’t learn that lesson, chances are nothing short of bankruptcy will ever wake them up. And even in bankrupt court, they’ll probably blame it on their customers.
Ted
Mar 30th, 2010
“Valid concern, especially with LL’s historically bad security measures. I had considered mentioning using a heavily encrypted database, but forgot to add that point.”
I was referring to the local opensim database Wayward. Not Linden’s asset servers. Once you have the data, it can be altered. Once altered, re-imported. That was the point I was trying to make. It makes no sense. If someone wants to thieve, there are ways to do it. It doesn’t make sense to penalize all of the technically inclined users just to satisfy the people that believe that Linden can protect their assets. Take a look at the Imprudence viewer blog. This affects all of the open source TPV’s.
As far as textures go, all one would have to do is use GLIntercept. The hard disk would be full the next day if you let it run.
Wayfinder
Mar 30th, 2010
Wayward? LOL. I stopped reading at that bit of immaturity Teddybear. LOL
You want me to respect your posts… post respectfully. If you don’t care whether I respect your posts or not well, it’s your time wasted not mine. My final response to you and the other Lindey trolls here. At this point, you knobs aren’t saying anything new and are just wasting everyone’s time.
Ted
Mar 30th, 2010
@ Wayfinder
My aplogies Mr. Wayfinder. That was actually just a mistake not getting your name correct. No harm meant.
@All
In terms of the lost money in SL, many have spent quite a bit over the years. I only wonder why it takes people so long to move on as the article mentions their intentions are. Lack of support pre-dates 2004 and has never improved. Support ticket response has pretty much always been a hit or miss situation. Couple the lack of support along with the numerous questionable business procedures, practices, and decisions over the years, it becomes quite clear that one would be better off not spending a great deal of money in SL. And certainly not with the idea that any monies spent should in any way be considered “an investment”.
With the latest Linden Terms over the open source client contributions, a clear assessment should be considered if one would want any part of the service.
Personally, the only reason I joined SL was the open source client and the fact it ran on gnu/linux. If it were not for that simple fact, I would have never signed up in the first place years ago.
There are clearly less reasons to spend time and money supporting that which you cannot agree with. I support the persons decision to realistically look at the issue and make a decision that makes sense to them. They are not the first group that have spent money and left. Nor will they be the last.
David Cartier
Mar 31st, 2010
I came back into Second life late in January, after being away for two years. Since that time I’ve had to file a service ticket pretty much every week. I think I maybe had two service issues previous to my leaving.The few inventory items I can still actually find in my inventory, these are things that I MADE, some of them six years ago, are invariably no modify. Ask for help with this and you either get ignored or told that there is no way to verify me as the creator. The only thing that has kept me out of Open Grid is that it’s like a country club for communists; no economy, endless grandiose five year plans that never seem to be finished and nobody gets to go unless they are the trusted socialist elite. Bottom line, Second Life sucks, but it’s still too much fun to leave. I hope they can get their act together. It would takes so very little effort and common sense.
WTF?
Mar 31st, 2010
David,
I was in the opengrid today and wasn’t impressed either. To me it seemed like SL on it’s worst laggy day. Hardly what I would consider the promised land for the exidious of people leaving SL.
Maria Korolov
Mar 31st, 2010
For social users of virtual worlds, there are no good alternatives to Second Life right now on the OpenSim platform — the same way that there were no good alternatives to AOL when the Internet first came along. Early websites were limited, ugly, and very narrowly-focused compared to all the opportunities available on AOL — shopping, forums, media, etc…
The same holds true for OpenSim right now. There are some niche communities out there — OSGrid is a large grid, mostly for early adopters and developers. ReactionGrid servers businesses and educators. FrancoGrid is aimed at the French-speaking community, and there are also grids run by Germans, Italians, and other nationalities.
The big advantage for OpenSim is for folks who want to run their own worlds. Machinimators looking for large, low-cost backlots for filming. Schools looking for controlled, safe spaces for their students — with no age limitations. Enterprises looking for private places for meetings and training. Content creators looking for low-cost manufacturing space (for products that they will later sell in Second Life). And non-profit and other groups looking for places to run simulations, meetings, conferences — all the benefits of virtual worlds.
OpenSim offers all this with full control — you can backup your regions and restore at any time, run them in public, private, or hypergrid-enabled mode, distribute your content — even full regions — to others in your company, school, or industry.
Yahoo went public in 1995. It is only now that Facebook reached the kind of ubiquity and universal recognition that AOL did back then. And we STILL have walled garden, non-Internet platforms in place (mostly for gaming).
The move from closed-garden virtual worlds like Second Life and Blue Mars will probably take a little less time, given the accelerating pace of development of technology. Gaming worlds will probably continue to be walled gardens for significantly longer (if not forever).
To the extent that people use Second Life to play — even to play at business — the dozens of social public worlds currently running on OpenSim are very meager imitations, though some may carve out profitable niches.
But for those using Second Life for work — organizational work, corporate work, educational work, artistic and creative work — OpenSim is fast becoming a superior and lower-cost alternative.
– Maria Korolov
Editor, Hypergrid Business
http://www.hypergridbusiness.com
Wayfinder
Mar 31st, 2010
@Ted: gracious apology accepted, with mine in return. I’m so used to chopping off troll heads, an honest mistake is easily misconstrued.
I have to agree with what you and David both say above. I’ve been on SL since 2004. I don’t exaggerate one bit when I state that in my decades of professional consulting, I have never seen a more customer abusive, narcissistic company. Maria likens them well to AOL; like that company, IMO the only reason Linden Lab has succeeded at all is the simple lack of viable competition. That situation will not last forever… and with their total ineptitude when it comes to coding a stable platform or even figuring out a decent user interface (Viewer 2.0 just stinks)… I do not expect Linden Lab will be able to remain competitive when the big dogs show up.
Maria, I’m glad you posted here. I’ve read and enjoyed your blogs elsewhere. As you point out, we are in the infancy stage of OpenGrid. I see a whole lot going on with the OpenSim project that is self defeating, not the least of which is coder egos, in-fighting, bad coding process and a simple lack of oversight and management. But given enough time, such a freely open and user-fueled project will almost certainly leave Linden Lab’s closed architecture sitting in the dust, with customers migrating to a more stable and far less expensive platform. For a certainty the days of the $295 sim are numbered. I am sure Linden Lab foresees that eventuality, which is likely why they’re trying to suck just as much cash out of it now, while they can.
Perhaps they are delusional enough to believe they can survive what’s coming under their current policies. But they have made a lot of enemies. There are many people who are currently Second Life customers, who hate the Linden Lab company and its unethical (dare I say even illegal?) self-serving nature. There are many, many groups that have been just itching for OpenGrid to become viable enough to jump this rat-infested ship. If the OpenSim coders don’t step up, organize better and do the job that needs done, assuredly someone else will do so. As a friend of mine once said, it’s really not all that difficult conceptually to code a viable 3-D world. I already know of one company that is doing so (surprise, Linden Lab! And no, I’m not giving your company a single hint). I strongly suspect more projects are already in production. I know for a fact one very, very large company that has plans in this regard (that’s in addition to the one I already mentioned).
A while back I coined the term “Virtual Web” (a pretty obvious coinage I admit). It is coming. Linden Lab’s closed-wall policy will not continue to monopolize this market. I fully agree: their days are numbered. Unable to adapt to changing climate (they have shown no potential thus far), I believe Linden Lab is firmly headed the way of the dinosaur. If they survive at all, it will be because someone at corporate wakes up, shows some guts, and makes some major changes that must be made. Sadly for us, the customers, builders, creators… I don’t really see much in the way of brilliant minds in that company, at least not the caliber that will be required to pull Linden Lab out of its foreseeable nosedive into pavement.
Wayfinder
Mar 31st, 2010
@Ted: “If someone wants to thieve, there are ways to do it.”
Agreed. But I think it proper to point to locks as a valid example. “Locks are for honest people.” A thief can break in to almost any lock. They do so regularly. But locks prevent just anyone coming in from off the street.
Yes, there are ways to pirate content. When someone can pull graphics directly off a graphics card, little is going to stop that person from doing so. But… if that person goes to that much trouble, it fully establishes intent. If something is fully open, the person can just claim, “I thought it was ok to copy it!” That’s a little harder to claim if they have to intentionally bypass valid and established security measures.
Just as the internet is chaotic and anarchy-driven, so too will be the Virtual Web. But proper safeguards…. safeguards that protect the rights of creators while still affording valid backup concepts to customers… will prevent the majority of content theft, just as locks on cars keep the majority of cars from being stolen.
Scott Davis
Apr 4th, 2010
This is your problem. Second Life is evidently not for large-scale entrepreneur-ism. You shouldn’t have invested so much money into Second Life.
Wayfinder
Apr 4th, 2010
Scott, I can’t disagree with the basic points you make. However I think you overly simplify… and come to the wrong conclusion.
Yes, SL isn’t for large-scale business. But they CLAIM to be. They try to woo businesses everyday with promises of grandeur that they know they can’t fulfill. Yes, he shouldn’t have invested so much money into Second Life. That’s pretty obvious. That doesn’t mean he’s to blame for what is blatant negligence bordering on the criminal.
Yes, this is “his problem”. That doesn’t mean it’s not Linden Lab’s problem. Frankly, I think your lack of empathy for the losses experienced by a fellow member of Second Life might be the biggest problem. Why? Because it perfectly echoes Linden Lab’s attitude in the situation… which IS the problem.
LOL
Apr 4th, 2010
@Scott Davis
I totally agree…
Like come on, who in thier right mind spends that much $ on Secondlife, and continues to spend it even after all the problems described?
I can’t say I told you so, but seriously after just a few of the MANY problems described by the Mayor, why did he\she continue to keep flushing thier money in the toilet?
Linden Lab was pissing all over this person and still LittleBlackDuck refused to move out of the way. Was he\she actually thinking it was just virtual rain?
After reading the article here a few more times along with the majority of the comments I can now say, I have no sympathy for LittleBlackDuck Lindsay. You are stupid to invest that much time and money into a Videogame and\or Virtual world. Linden Lab is laughing at you all the way to the bank!
Wayfinder
Apr 5th, 2010
@LOL: Son, all I can say is that your lack of experience with human nature and real life is astoundingly naive. There are all sorts of reasons people invest in things and continue to put good money after bad… ranging all the way from misrepresentation and outright fraud from the host company, to promises that “we’ll look in to this”, to simple hope that things will improve and a hesitancy to abandon current investments, friends and responsibilities. If you don’t understand or can’t see any of those issues, then I’d say you have a greater perception problem than Duck. ; )
pan
Apr 6th, 2010
I read a lot of people writing they would instantly leave SL if only OpenSim was like SL. Good that it is not.
The easy way to get OpenSim better is to go there.
* If you find a bug make a good bug report.
* if you are a talented writer, set up a text which describes how to make a good bug report (I see some of them commenting in this blog. Yes, I’m looking at you.).
* If you are searching a Jazzclub – find some people to open one.
* If search sucks bring together people who can make it work.
* If you can afford several sims in SL and move to an OpenSim grid invest (a part) of what you saved in bounties for OpenSim developers.
* If you are a coder and never looked into the client code help developing the simulator. There is a lot to do for sure and even small fixes need time.
* If you are a coder and looked into the client code join a viewer project and help making OpenSim support better. Or open your own viewer project. Make sure your patches are not obfuscated in large commits but available to the opensource community.
* If you are just a user take your friends to field trips in the grids, take nice snapshots or machinima and blog them. Report bugs.
* Report bugs.
* um. The last point again.
pan
Apr 6th, 2010
forgot one:
* stop wasting your time thinking about what LL does or does not. Start using your imagination and creativity to get a real cool Metaverse outside the wall working.
Ted
Apr 6th, 2010
@ Pan
Most of us that have been working on os for a couple years already do, and have done what you mention. I’m not sure what you think we are doing with os. Many hours go into testing, reporting, and patching where possible. I think you’ve underestimated those that work with os.
OS will never be SL. And shouldn’t be. It’s never going to be an alternative to SL. And again, shouldn’t be.
My advise is that if you don’t like SL, leave SL. You don’t have to have another simulator service to go to.
Wasting time? 39 personal sim builds, more bug reporting that can be counted? Continuous work on the software?
You either don’t know what is involved with the opensimulator code, or are not a developer of any kind. OS has a tough time trying to keep up with the issues that are found and reported now. It’s alpha software, it’s full of issues, but yet, it’s quiite usable and has been for quite some time. It’s just not SL, and everyone wants to compare OS to SL. Well keep on comparing. You’ll never see it nor was it ever intended. Opensim isn’t there to be the savior for those that just don’t like the Linden terms.
Ted
Apr 6th, 2010
One more remark about OS/SL.
If you are waiting for the day you’ll be able to copy and paste LSL into opensim from second life, you’ll be waiting indefinitely. If you cannot code, program, and make whatever it is you personally want out of OS, you most likely will be waiting a very long time with little to no results. This is not a bug, but the power of the platform as designed. It’s not going to hold your hand.
As far as bugs go, let’s not forget the many years of issues on the Second Life platform. Pirms up your ass every time you teleported, whole quarter sim builds ending up under the sim. Rezzing items into nothingness. The list is long and costly.
Point being, if you are waiting for a perfect product before ever working with it, you’ll never find it. Anyone that uses windows should know that. The Linden grid
is_always_in_a_state_of_testing.
You should never expect any different from any OS type grid you will ever visit. The software will be worked with and always in a state of testing and improvement for many, many years to come if the poject continues to exist.