Emerald Viewer: 76000 Unique Users Could Be Wrong
by Pixeleen Mistral on 12/04/10 at 5:04 am
Earlier this evening, lead Emerald viewer developer Fractured Crystal claimed that 76,000 unique users run the Emerald client – a significant portion of the active Second Life community and clear indication that the Emerald viewer is the most popular alternative to the official Second Life client software.
But ongoing rumors of questionable conduct on the part of some of the Emerald development team have led some players to avoid the Emerald client. Are the rumors true – or a case of sour grapes on the part of competing developers? Given Linden Lab’s secretive approach to in-world disciplinary actions, confirmation of less than stellar conduct would have to come from the players involved.
Strangely enough, this seems to be what I witnessed earlier this evening as the Wrong Hands Group questioned Fractured Crystal for approximately 20 minutes. The Wrong Hands originally made a name for themselves by infiltrating the Justice League Unlimited vigilante faction and leaking the JLU’s formerly secret Second Life surveillance wiki to the Internet at large – but now have moved on to take on the Emerald team.
While I was not present for the entire Q&A session, I personally witnessed about half of the session, and was provided with an audio capture of the session. A YouTube video of the last 6 minutes of the meeting has also been published by the Wrong Hands.
Under close questioning by Cam Scientist, Fractured Crystal told the assembled group that he has not violated the Second Life Terms of Service on his Fractured Crystal account, but that his other accounts with ToS violations had all been banned. Apparently Mr. Crystal does not have an entirely clean record with Linden Lab.
Mr. Crystal also claimed that the Lindens are aware of the Onyx project. He went on to agree that the Onyx client has substantially the same functions as the SL Pro client – a client notorious in some circles as a "griefer client". However, Mr. Crystal asserted that the Onyx client is not griefer material because only he and friends have access to it.
Have the Wrong Hands uncovered another case of Second Life misconduct? They claim that more incriminating information is forthcoming. In the meantime, I have decided to continue to heed Plastic Duck’s advice from several months ago and avoid the Emerald viewer. When even über griefers are concerned, it seem prudent to take their advice.
Plastic F. Duck
Apr 13th, 2010
Moral of the story:
Don’t be an asshat.
Cedric Levenque
Apr 13th, 2010
>Emerald status
>TOLD!
Ted
Apr 14th, 2010
From the dev lists:
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:57 AM, Joe Linden wrote:
>
> There is no “catch 22″ here. No “overstepping”, and no rocket science.
> The terms of the GPL are clear and well understood. The arguments around
> clauses 11 and 12 of the GPL are completely baseless.
Here are GPLv2 clauses 11 and 12, Joe. Which arguments around these clauses
are completely baseless?
– NO WARRANTY
– 11. BECAUSE THE PROGRAM IS LICENSED FREE OF CHARGE, THERE IS NO
WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT
WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES
PROVIDE THE PROGRAM “AS IS” WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED
OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO
THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM
PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR
CORRECTION.
– 12. IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN
WRITING WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MAY MODIFY AND/OR
REDISTRIBUTE THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES,
INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING
OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO
LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR
THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER
PROGRAMS), EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
The “NO WARRANTY” section of the GPL is one of the clearest and most understandable parts of the license. When software is developed under the GPL, these clauses are not optional, they are part of the license, and they are also part of the license *when those developers create viewers expresslyfor use in SL*.
Developers who create viewers for use in SL are not second class GPL citizens. The entirety of the license applies to them too, including clause 6 about “no further restrictions” and the two “NO WARRANTY” clauses.
Failure to grant SL developers the “NO WARRANTY” of clauses 11-12 means that you cannot license your software to them under GPL. It’s as simple as that.
—-
I concur with the above, and further state that Joe Linden is a retard, that the Emerald team cannot commit to Linden’s terms as they are completely and utterly not compatible, nor within the limits of, the GNU/GPLv2 License Agreements.
Furthermore, Linden need correct the Terms of Service and remove any claim to “they themselves, licensing prior works”, or any statements of “granting license” to such works that are licensed under terms they have no control over. Such as BSD, GNU/GPL, Creative Commons and the like. Linden has no lawful right to “grant license” on preexisting license agreements between
content creators and users of such license agreements within their jurisdiction.
—-
Darling Brody
Apr 14th, 2010
what is with the comment censership? have you moved to australia?
Darling Brody
Apr 14th, 2010
@We
Dont put words into my mouth. I didn’t say that I appriciated vlife.
I have not forgotten what Frantured did with vlife, but I will not push to have him punished now that he is doing good things.
It is better to have him doing good things than doing bad thing. Don’t you agree?
Gundel Gaukelei
Apr 14th, 2010
@Ted
Failure to grant SL developers the “NO WARRANTY” of clauses 11-12 means that you cannot license your software to them under GPL. It’s as simple as that.
Thats a disclaimer, stupid. Failure to grant no warranty! LOL
Darien Caldwell
Apr 14th, 2010
There’s nothing in the TPV that conflicts with the GPL. You can make the most stupid, item stealing, permission disrepecting, Password stealing, socially irresponsible viewer you want, LL just isn’t going to allow you to connect to their grid with it.
It’s really that simple.
Miss J
Apr 14th, 2010
You wont get any support with the choice of using third party viewers. But I’ am pretty sure everyone knows you won’t get support in anycase.
Ted
Apr 14th, 2010
@Gundel,
The no warranty part of the clause in 11 and 12 is for anyone working with the development under the gnu/gpl. Linden has taken the stance that TPV developers will be responsible for what others do with the clients in regards to connecting to SL. This is not how the license works.
It’s not just for Linden to use the disclaimers within the gpl, and tell other parties that they will be responsible for what others do with the code.
Case and point, Emerald lists with SL under the TPV agreements. I download the source and hack on Emeralds viewer. Is Emerald responsible? Not under the license of the gnu/gpl no. Take a look at whom Linden states is responsible.
@Darien,
Wrong again!
Gundel Gaukelei
Apr 14th, 2010
@Ted
I think we’ve got to draw you some sketch. The licence says that the licensor is not granting a warranty to the licensee. _NOT_ the other way arround _AND_ in the scope of this license (read: in the relation of the two partys connected by the license). It doesn’t say that there can’t be any warranty at all. Its not an all purpose get-out-of-jail-card.
Now in turn the licensee becomes the licensor redistributing the code to some 3rd party. And again, the GPL explicitely states there is no implied warranty granted by (only – scope again) this license.
You are perfectly allowed to grant warranty for GPL code you distribute. Thats up to you. Corporations all over the world do this all the time. I do it. Thats one way to earn money with GPL Software – by granting a warranty to paying customers. But it has to be in a different agreement.
Furthermore: the Emerald Devs, in your example, are in no way forced to sign this TPV crap in order to receive the source and redistribute it under the terms of the GPL.
Now they think its a great idea to sign this TPV. Its up to them. The GPL doesn’t care what else agreements you sign. If you sign an agreement that says you’ve got to wear a funny hat for the rest of your life if you make use of the right from the GPL, its your fault. You better like funny hats.
So, there is no GPL violation. As of the GPL they still are allowed to redistribute the source code under the terms of GPL – even without granting warranty or being held responsible. The limitation is only because of them signing the TPV.
There would be a violation of the GPL if signing the TPV would be a requirement incompatible (and TPV clearly is) with the GPL.
And no, Darien is completely right.
You get it wrong, because you start thinking from the result. You want to be allowed to connect to SL. Because you are not interested in freedom of source code but in freedom of this one single application. But in order to be allowed this application called SL, you’ve got to sign an agreement that effectively voids your rights from the GPL. Too bad the GPL (as of v2) doesn’t care.
And the BSDL does even care less.
If you want a weapon against this TPV, you better look for something different. IANAL, but I would look into something along the lines of unfair competition (wild guess). But im shure about how the GPL works.
Ted
Apr 14th, 2010
“There would be a violation of the GPL if signing the TPV would be a requirement incompatible (and TPV clearly is) with the GPL. :”
Well then, we are not so far off from stating the same reasoning, just with different terms. And I’m talking about two different topics at once. One is the gnu/gpl and issues with the TPV, the other is Lindens Terms of Service where they expressly give or “grant license” of usage over content that is licensed under terms that is in direct opposition to Linden’s Terms of Service.
You do indeed agree that the TPV is not compatible with the GPL. Exactly. And Linden states that to connect to their service with a third party viewer, that you adhere to the polices of the TPV. Period.
This means that if you do not agree to the TPV policies due to the issues with the incompatibilities, that you cannot agree to the Terms of Service either. Which states that by agreeing to the Terms of Service that you are also agreeing to such related policies including the TPV.
No one has stated that Linden doesn’t have the right (whether right or wrong) to deny connections to their services. What is being stated is that Linden has no right to expect more from the license agreements of the gnu/gpl than they themselves would have to adhere to as the code is licensed under the same agreements whether Linden works on the code, or someone else does.
What about the code within Lindens’ domain that is licensed under various licenses that allow for such modification, distribution etc.. ?
By not allowing non permission items to be removed from SL, they are not complying with the terms that those items are licensed under.
Are you then stating that Linden has the right to harbor the works and not allow the removal of works from their servers despite license agreements that are clearly to the contrary? License agreements between the content creators and end users that pre exist any license agreements Linden has recently bestowed upon the community.
The Linden Terms of Service won’t stand up in a court of law.
Whether or not you agree this is just a power grab by Linden due to their belief that they can dictate what can and cannot be removed from the servers, I am stating that there are indeed works created within Linden’s domain that are licensed under licenses that are both incompatible with their Terms of Service and other related polices. If one can write a policy themselves granting “usage rights” or “grant rights” over such content, they make null and void the licenses in which the content was released.
Ted
Apr 15th, 2010
“You want to be allowed to connect to SL. Because you are not interested in freedom of source code but in freedom of this one single application.”
Do you use windows? I don’t and haven’t for years. I spend most of my time on my own servers and services. What I do care about is that I have the right to connect to Linden’s services and download, remove, and use any software, product, prim, or anything else that the end user license granted by the content creator allows.
What I do care about is that I’m allowed to import works created on my own services into SL. That the license in which I apply to my works will be upheld and regarded by Linden Lab and the Terms of Service. If my product is licensed under the gnu/gpl, I would expect that Linden would allow for such full permission works to be exported from their domain.
No reason to make this personal. I use all the clients for various purpose and will continue to do so. (hippo, meerkat, emerald, imprudence etc…) to connect to my own services and servers. I’ve also made modifications to such clients myself. I’ve just not distributed, nor will I accept any Terms of Service that state that I must adhere to the TPV polices to be in compliance.
Zirconium Glass
Apr 15th, 2010
What is the purpose of this piece of writing? To sow seeds of discord? The second paragraph opens: “But ongoing rumors (sic) of questionable conduct on the part of some of the Emerald development team have led some players to avoid the Emerald client”. Rumours… enough said. If all that we have are rumours, then it is a sorry state we find ourselves in… Judging a person simply by their past, without giving that person option to change, is simply not good justice.
It seems a sour grape witch hunt of Mr Crystal and Emerald…. would that be because Emerald is so popular among the resident base?
Quite frankly, it is pathetic…
Baloo Uriza
Apr 15th, 2010
@Zirconium Glass: I’m not sure “rumors” is the right word for what’s going around. More like substantiated fact that Modular doesn’t want getting out.
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia
Apr 15th, 2010
@Zirconium: “What is the purpose of this piece of writing? To sow seeds of discord?”
You must be new around here.
Loniki
May 6th, 2010
Another thing, one of the members of the Emerald team is also involved with the CDS System. This in case you don’t know is a system that bans competitors viewers, specifically Neillife. CDS claims it is a system to combat copybot but freely admits it can not detect copybot, only viewers that are compatable. Now its common knowledge that Neillife is based off the Emerald system, perhaps a teammate that went off on their own? But also keep in mind that CDS claims they can detact and ban by IP address. It is my opinion that Emerald has a back door, and that was also transfered to the Neillife viewer. It is rumored that Emerald reports data about its users back to home. And what is up with that client bridge that you can’t remove without it reattaching itself? This whole thing with Emerald and CDS has a real stink to me.
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