Loki Clifton: The Lab Was Not Respecting The Deal We Made

by Pixeleen Mistral on 26/04/10 at 2:57 am

Loki Clifton’s Second Life consulting business is in trouble. Until Wednesday, Loki was a gold level solutions provider for Linden Lab, the makers of Second Life. But according to Mr. Clifton, despite months of negotiations and an agreement to expand Woodbury University’s Second Life presence, everything suddenly changed Tuesday when the Lindens abruptly terminated accounts for players associated with the Woodbury University group and deleted their virtual land holdings.

What went wrong? According to Loki, “the fact is the Lab was not respecting the deal we made”. He went on to say “companies I have had long contracts with and where I was making most of my money have terminated my contract”.

Linden Lab has long partnered with 3rd party consultants who help customers create Second Life experiences, but after stripping Mr. Clifton of his solutions provider status, his customers have begun heading for the exists, concerned that he was acting as an intermediary between Woodbury University and Linden Lab after the Lindens had begun systematically deleting all Woodbury artifacts from the virtual world.

I spoke with Loki by phone as he travelled to Burbank, CA to meet with his remaining client – Woodbury – and he provided a chronology of the relationship.

In November, Linden Lab was considering terminating the Woodbury group in Second Life, but after Loki met with the Woodbury group in early December and described to Glenn Linden their plans to expand their virtual land holdings to create an educational environment that engaged the Second Life community at large, the Lab’s attitude changed. Glenn – the lead of the Lab’s solutions provider group was enthusiastic, particularly because Loki was involved in the project and he was encouraged to proceed.

During the January to March timeframe, a series of meetings were held with Jack, Cyn, and Glenn Linden to work out what the Linden’s legal team needed. Apparently there were concerns that “Woodbury” could not be used as the brand name of the effort because some in Linden Lab felt the name was synonymous with “griefing” or annoying other players in the game. According to Mr. Clifton this issue had been worked through and there was a plan in place to rebrand the venture.

The venture was to be ambitious – a dozen linked regions were to be created, some with access limited to members of the Woodbury group, others to be public where stores and musical events would be held. Mr. Clifton was to continue to act as a conduit between the Woodbury group and Linden Lab to help smooth out a troubled relationship that had developed around the deletion of the original Woodbury University Second Life island in July 2007.

But trouble began to develop as staffing changes inside Linden Lab resulted in first Jack Linden, then Jeska Linden becoming Loki’s contact for Woodbury issues. Loki had already placed orders for new sims about 10 days earlier when George Linden scheduled a meeting for 2:00 PM Tuesday. Loki said he had jokingly asked George if there was anything to be concerned about, but he was reassured that there was no problem.

Tuesday morning however, there were serious problems.

Loki had “about 50 messages” in his inbox stating that all of the current Woodbury sims were offline, and his attempts to place trouble tickets with Linden Lab to bring the sims back online were fruitless. Loki was no longer listed as an alternate for Jordan Bellino and Edward Clift of Woodbury because their accounts had been banned from Second Life. Loki had previously negotiated an expedite immediately status for tickets for the Woodbury sims along with the ability for both Bellino and Clift to file expedited tickets. This was now all out the window.  Linden Lab had decided to delete Woodbury from their virtual world for the second time in three years – despite the potential cost in bad publicity and a looming class action lawsuit filed against Linden Lab the previous week for uncompensated deletion of virtual land.

As news of the deletion spread, Loki attempted to find out why the accounts and virtual assets of his customer had been removed. According to Mr. Clifton, Linden Lab staff would not comment citing “privacy policies”.

Loki told me that the suddenness of the move to remove Woodbury surprised him — when he took on Woodbury as a customer, he had no idea the heavy price in political capital and reputation he would pay. And so as Loki boarded a train to Burbank to meet with his customer the question of why Linden Lab has again deleted Woodbury remains unanswered.

100 Responses to “Loki Clifton: The Lab Was Not Respecting The Deal We Made”

  1. samanathaE

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Hey woodbury.
    Go fuck yourself

    btw that smart ass video didnt do you any favors.
    Good riddence fuckers.

  2. bladyblue Bommerang

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Over three years of racist greifing and harassment comes to a glorious end. LLL assigned Loki to get Woodbury University group from greifer status to educational group status. I suppose if the leaders of the group worked with him he could have made it happen.

  3. A Furry

    Apr 26th, 2010

    I’m glad to see them leave,now this is a clear message. Anyone who messes with us furries will have their sims taken offline with no compensation or money paid back. Attention Patriotic Nigras, your days are limited!

  4. Judge Joker

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @A Furry

    Or should I say Corsi?

    The Patriotic Nigras are out of action pending hiring a pool cleaner, and furries had nothing to with why Woodbury was taken offline.

    And if you really are just a furry god help us all, if that’s the scope of the rumors going round.

    See this is why the comment system is no good, we don’t really know who is who, a forum would give us more certainty of who is posting what and why.

  5. Alyx Stoklitsky

    Apr 26th, 2010

    lol @ furfags thinking the PN have actually even existed atall for the past year. They’ve been pretty much a one-man show since late 2008.

    You people are fucking dense.

  6. Former WU Member

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Even if you don’t question the logic of attacking a group instead of the individuals…

    Why let them buy sims and then ban them days later?

    Why not wait till they’ve bought ALL TWELVE SIMS instead of just four?

    Something pretty drastic had to have changed for this decision to be handed down without warning.

  7. Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia

    Apr 26th, 2010

    OK, so we know what LL did.

    The question is WHY?

    This whole situation makes me very nervous. I myself run a popular academic sandbox, much like WU. If I do not know what standards academic sandboxes are held to then I can’t run my sim with any kind of peace of mind that LL won’t delete my sim for “no reason” (to quote the TOS), trashing my reputation in both RL and in SL.

  8. James Larken Smith

    Apr 26th, 2010

    How about if you are an academic sim you be verified to be a real, government accredited institution of higher learning. There is a no-brainer……

  9. Ssieth Anabuki

    Apr 26th, 2010

    To be honest – LL is losing territory in the academic field rapidly.

    Anyone in Higher Education who is really serious about virtual worlds is running on one of the numerous open platforms rather than on a Linden-run grid. There are a great many more reasons for that than I’m going to go into here but protection from this sort of thing is a serious concern and LL will need to address that if they are to have any hope of keeping more than a tiny fraction of the academic market in virtual worlds.

    Realistically – for the majority of educationalists – this news is rather irrelevant and just hilights their correct decision not to invest in a platform over which they have no control and cannot have any certainty of access to.

    ~~ Ssieth Anabuki, University Techie ~~

  10. Sylauxe

    Apr 26th, 2010

    “I’m glad to see them leave,now this is a clear message. Anyone who messes with us furries will have their sims taken offline with no compensation or money paid back. Attention Patriotic Nigras, your days are limited!”

    Interestingly enough, Woodbury is like, 70% furries.

  11. Tuomy Boa

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Woodbury isnt/wasnt anti-furry…that would’ve been self-loathing if they were.

  12. Gaara Sandalwood

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Linden Lab hasn’t respected the deal made with WU for the past couple of years. It’s been a systematic series of giving WU sims for cash then taking them away soon after. First with the last Fort Longcat and the neighboring sandbox, then that one sim they moved to, then SW, FIS, Animation, and Estonia. The winter sim without refunding them from what I recall, and this event just a few weeks after purchasing three new sims.

  13. Tux Winkler

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @ SamanathaE
    “Hey woodbury.
    Go fuck yourself
    - You think this is the end of Woodbury?
    - I thought Samanatha was spelt ‘Samantha’?

    @ A Furry
    “Anyone who messes with us furries will have their sims taken offline with no compensation or money paid back.”
    - Wasn’t the majority furry in WU?
    - You seem certain of that.
    “Attention Patriotic Nigras, your days are limited!”
    - You think the PN are still active?

    You see now comes a new wave. Whilst WU and related sims was there, everyone (how was interested) knew where to find them. Now things have changed. LL has banned and upset a good many people who no have nothing better to do. I think LL should think about increasing their RESI team. Because a lot of clever bored people will lead to one thing.

    This time though LL better hope all the people who they upset over the past few months don’t join together. Then you would have a massive group made up of viewer devs, scripters, builders, and other such highly skill sets. A few waves of lolcubes on help island will be the least of their worries.

    Even if the Lab recruited such voluntary organisations as the JLU and other self appointed law bringers. Even then, stopping waves of people who are actually wetting them selves watching sims go up and down and probably worse, will be a difficult task. And guess what – this time it would be with good reason. Those of us who have lost money in land and accounts do have a right to hit back.

    It is almost retarded to reply:
    “your ban was applied correctly”
    when the question was:
    “Please explain the reason for my ban?”

    Property, inventory and accounts have been taken from many residents (high paying residents at that) with reason.

    So now its time to play and have something which is against LL tyrannical rule – FUN.

  14. Tux Winkler

    Apr 26th, 2010

    *without reason

  15. David McNaughten

    Apr 26th, 2010

    You’re assuming a lot, Winkler – the people who are upset that Woodbury went away are the same people who got banned, but nobody else. Everybody’s pretty happy to see Woodbury gone, and we can hardly wait to forget all about them as though they never were. And frankly, it’s a damned shame you got your account back yourself.

  16. Gaara Sandalwood

    Apr 26th, 2010

    I am an impartial observer most of the time. I never did anything in WU besides hang out(of course I never do anything in SL either, just idle). I wasn’t an owner or a landholder, so I was of little importance and not banned(not asking to be banned though, hehe). I find that as somewhat of a good thing. But I still think LL did a lot of wrong in this. As for people wanting to forget about WU I can easily say from experience that not many even knew about it who didn’t actively participate in it. Some, yes, but not everyone or a great amount of the active populance of SL’s world. Hearing that everybody’s happy WU is gone is like hearing LL saying everything in SL is fine and everyone loves how they’re doing things.

    Or, in simpler terms, your opinion, not a fact.

  17. Midnight

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Those posting here moaning over LL’s actions need to buy a clue or two or even three. Woodbury’s systematic disregard for the Community Standards and Terms of Service of Second Life is what led to this situation. Years ago they were banned and their sims deleted then they were given a second chance. In fact, LL bent over backwards to accommodate and help them to rebuild. All that was asked in return is that the members of their group follow the CS and ToS which they had to agree to in order to first log onto Second Life to begin with and which the sim officers had to agree that the sims would operate under. It’s not rocket science that if you are given a second chance and simply go back to what you were doing to get banned the first time around that you are not going to like the response you finally get and richly deserved.

    This operation made a mockery of what an educational sim(s) were supposed to be anywhere. These people tarnished the name and reputation of their own real world institution and are doing their desperate best to this very moment to avoid responsibility for their actions. Welcome to the real world kids, you do something, you deal with the consequences of your actions.

  18. Gaara Sandalwood

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Good reply, but there’s still one thing I don’t get:

    SL is a mature adult game. In what way did WU violate community standards in that sense? In teh sense, I mean, that they have crude and adult materials. Furthermore, is it instead because of intolerance? I know some WU said profanity, even said “nigger”, and some of their buildings and symbols represented communism. The mere factor of these things are bannable? That’s just intolerance for free speech(however, I know more than to believe SLers are entitled to such under LL’s control).

    As for making a mockery of the insitution, I believe I said elsewhere here descriptions of some of the actual academic events I’ve seen in WU.

    Oh, one thing I would like to add, just as a fun fact: Some have made claim that a WU member ripped someone off and stole over 10k L from them. The folks who did this failed to also explain that the person was being bugged by a guy not affiliated with WU who tried going around their sim asking for DL links to viewers like VLife, and willing to pay cash for it.

    No hacking, no scamming, a guy came up, paid him, asked for a viewer link, and he said no. The guy whined and cussed at us for about ten minutes then left. Amazing how easy corners are to cut, nay?

  19. MOAR

    Apr 26th, 2010

    just stop trying to run woodbury as an educational sim. then the linden lulzkillers can go f**k themselves. i’m a regular in a private combat sim which constantly gets trashed and griefed. probably the worst sim in sl. no one ever held the owner responsible for it. the lindens only casually drop by to ban some dialog/chat/im spammers.

    still, it’s ridiculous how fascist, intolerant and intransparent linden lab acts here. of course no one will ever know why exactly the objects got returned. f**k the system.

  20. IntLibber Brautigan

    Apr 26th, 2010

    The facts are that if the name on the sim was Harvard instead of Woodbury, LL wouldn’t dare fuck with them. Nor would anybody else. Their edgy and creative newmedia parody presence would be celebrated and sucked up to by all the pretentious assholes on the grid and at the lab. Multibillionaire alumni would pull the venture capital plugs behind the Lab if they refused to fire Jack, Harry, and Plexus, while Phillip and Mark would come crawling to the campus ready to lick some educational scrotum, and LL’s attorneys would also be alumni of the same institution. Hollywood would be offering millions of dollars to do movies about /b/tard pranksters, and /b/tards would be hosting Saturday Night Live.

    But because it was Woodbury, a small third tier school that, despite being the oldest chartered university in California, has few rich alumni, other than the guy who invented the KFC bucket (fact, why do you think /b/tards love dat fried chikkunz?), and not a sprig of ivy to be found on the entire campus, they are shunned by the posers and pretenders, shut down and criminally confiscated by the Lab, and Lab staff thinks they can hide behind “customer privacy” claims when its the customer who is asking the questions.

    Worse, the real crime Woodbury committed was being the most popular educational estate on the grid, far more popular than any first tier or ivy league school. Evidently this popularity embarassed and humiliated these far more wealthy, far more influential schools and ALL OF THEIR ALUMNI WORKING AT THE LAB.

    Thats ok, though. We know now, having done nothing to deserve this treatment, despite all the bogus claims by know it all idiots who don’t know jack, the fault lies with a corrupt and criminal organization that has absolutely zero respect for any of its customers.

    Woodbury’s takedown isn’t just about the removal of a cutting edge hollywood university. They can and will come for any of the rest of you any time they want, for any reason they feel like, and they dont even have to tell you why.

    So, given these conditions, why would ANYBODY put another dime into Second Life or pay a penny to Linden Lab? You’d have to be insane to do so, having zero trust that it might be all taken away tomorrow arbitrarily and capriciously.

    There’s an old story from ancient china. Some militia were marching to muster one day, when a bridge across a gorge on the way to their destination was washed out, and they could not cross.

    The captain of the militia asked his troops, “What is the punishment for being late to muster?”

    “Death!”, they replid.

    “And what is the punishment for revolt against the Emperor?”

    “Death!”, they replid.

    “Well men, we are going to be very late to muster.”

    Thus began the first overthrow of a Chinese Emperor.

    When rulers are arbitrary, capricious, and brutal, it is every man’s moral obligation to resist and revolt.

  21. Corsi Mousehold

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @ Judge Joker

    Just an FYI … That was not me. I have been at a convention all weekend and only just got back to my house like … 15 minutes ago. Not sure who A Furry is but … Not my business. As for Woodbury, I feel the distribution of the item “Worst Attack Hud Ever” was what killed them. I am not sure about it but that’s just my best guess.

    I found the Woodbury crew was a very enjoyable group of people. A bit abrasive at times but good people all in all. It’s a shame that the actions of a few overshadowed the enjoyment the rest of them had.

    It would be truly sad to see them go. Up to this point I was actually a member of Woodbury’s group as an FIC, I left the group at the advice of a Linden when I called asking what I should do and how far this was all going.

    @ Sylauxe

    You are correct. A large number of the Woodbury group is made up of Furries or fur friendly people. Most of the FIC staff was all furries.

    @ A Furry

    You’re a fucking dumbshit. Get your head out of your ass and think before you speak. We haven’t had trouble at all with WU or the PN in a very long time. Woodbury has actually been very welcomed and very well behaved in my sims. So please shut up and do not speak for the furry community.

    @ Woodbury

    I am glad some of you did in fact get your accounts back. I have heard that quite a few did get reinstated. I haven’t logged in yet to see how many yet but … about to do that now.

  22. Gaara Sandalwood

    Apr 26th, 2010

    “just stop trying to run Woodbury as an educational sim.”

    Not living up to LL’s standards as an educational facility in-world was just the vague excuse by LL to remove them completely. Even as something totally different, WU couldn’t exist in SL the way LL’s decision goes because they could just as easily formulate another excuse.

  23. Tux Winkler

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @ David
    “You’re assuming a lot, Winkler”
    - You think?

    “the people who are upset that Woodbury went away are the same people who got banned, but nobody else”
    - I have nothing to do with WU yet I dislike the action. And do you think a ban has ever stopped anyone from coming back and having fun?

    “Everybody’s pretty happy to see Woodbury gone, and we can hardly wait to forget all about them as though they never were”
    - Everybody voted you as their spokesman? Or are you , as the JLU, self appointed?

    “And frankly, it’s a damned shame you got your account back yourself”
    - Why thank you. I don’t know you from Adam. I am guessing your knowledge of me is zero to none – XD

  24. Senban Babii

    Apr 26th, 2010


    “When rulers are arbitrary, capricious, and brutal, it is every man’s moral obligation to resist and revolt.”

    The problem is, how do you revolt? The very structure of SL denies the resident of the ability to revolt. We can’t spray slogans on walls. We can’t stage a sit-in (because that’s construed as a denial of service attack on the sim). You can’t throw out particle leaflets to protest because it’s construed as griefing. I’m sure you see my point. So if we can’t protest in-world, that leaves us with out-world.

    But then how long until LL starts banning their customers for voicing dissenting opinions outside of SL?


  25. Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @IntLibber: “the real crime Woodbury committed was being the most popular educational estate on the grid, far more popular than any first tier or ivy league school.”

    I love Woodbury and all, but I have to challenge that claim.

    Go to search, type in “college”, “university”, etc. Note who comes up on top there (ignore the sex sims). It’s Whitmyre Island, named for the dorm building of the Robert E. Cook Honors College at Indiana University of Pennsylvania, which is a state school in Pennsylvania.

    I built it and run it, and we’ve been on top for years, without any help from RL professors. We try to involve RL professors, but they aren’t interested. I am a student. I don’t even major in communications media or computer science. I study economics. During the height of the SL hype cycle the administrators of my honors college decided to buy a sim and have me recreate the building. With the rest of the land I run a sandbox and hold discussion events and classes on LSL.

    Despite being the most trafficked RL university sim in the world for over 2 years now we can not get featured in search. Ghost towns like Trinity and Stanford are featured, but we are not.

    I’m not writing this to disparage Woodbury one bit. They were good scholars who were victimized by the PN, the JLU and Prok, among others.

    I’m just clarifying who’s really on top here. The educational landscape is not what most people think it is. Note the position in the traffic rankings of the first tier schools. They’re ghost towns. The state schools and community colleges are leading the way in SL, not the big names who get to be on CNN every time they clear their throat. The big names get preferential treatment all the time. Students at state schools like mine are used to it. Even when we out-perform them we get ignored, but that’s OK. There is more to scholarly work than recognition, after all.

  26. IntLibber Brautigan

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Bubblesort, Woodbury is no longer at the top obviously because it no longer exists on the grid. When it WAS on the grid, any search in places, which would show the traffic numbers, would show Woodburys sims totalled between 10,000-20,000 on a daily basis, far ahead of any other real university sim. There were a few non-university sandboxes that would put “university” in their parcel descriptions and used bots to make fake traffic, but no real university or college, or other actual educational sim ever reached Woodbury’s traffic levels that they reached without any bots or other traffic enhancement techniques.

    Here’s ways anybody can revolt:

    a) stop buying L$, period.

    b) cash out whatever L$ you have stored up, and do so through the Lindex, so the dollars come directly out of LL.

    c) content creators: pull all your content from XStreet, only use third party content stores.

    d) content buyers: only shop at third party content stores, and ONLY pay for content with USD or other global currency. Do NOT buy L$.

    In the US Revolution, the tax revenues from the tax on tea was what the British crown needed to pay off war debts that they ran up on wars fought without the consent of the colonists. Thus the Tea Party was intended not just to be symbolic, but to signal to the public to stop buying taxed tea from British companies. Thereafter, people either drank coffee from non-british traders, smuggled tea (Sam and John Adams had big financial interests in smuggling operations), or wild chicory.

    The L$ economy is a huge leg of the Linden Lab revenue structure. Cutting that leg off will seriously impact their profitability.

    e) refuse to buy land on new continents, sale of hyped new continents is a big revenue stream for LL, why do you think they keep rolling out new ones to the detriment of land values elsewhere? Its not like they are going to drop tier anywhere, they are intentionally destroying the value of your land down to commodity levels, this has been Jack’s plan for over three years now, something I warned everybody about in 2007 and nobody listened to me.

    f) if you can afford to do so, sell off any land you don’t need (dumping it now, you can pick it up later after the price has dropped to zero) to minimize your tier burden. The less tier revenues LL has, they less they have to pay for frivolous things like secret police.

    g) clog up their abuse reporting system. Abuse Report volume today is a tiny fraction of what it was back in 2007 at the height of the griefer war (thanks in no small part to the efforts of myself and Woodbury), which is why the g-team ran out of work to do and were discontinued as a separate department. They were rolled into the resi-team months ago. Harry’s actions against Woodbury are a response to talk of more layoffs at the lab. He needs a griefer war to get back his old position and make more work for a new g-team. Eliminating the people who ended the griefer war (me and Tizzers) is his first step to reigniting widespread organized griefing across the grid to ensure his future job security in a bad economy.
    If thats what he wants, lets show him just how busy we can make him and his people.

    g) Finally, LL is owned by shareholders. They are a number of venture capitalists and venture capital firms. They care about the bottom line and the reputation of the company they are invested in. Contacting these investors and expressing your displeasure with the company, its abusive policies and staff, and informing them that you intend to stop doing business with the company, and telling all your friends to do likewise, will work wonders.

  27. David McNaughten

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @Winkler – of course you had something to do with Woodbury, you were in their spinoff group “The Wrong Hands”, and narrowly escaped a permaban yourself. So you definitely fall into the WU chum bucket with the rest of the day old fishheads.

  28. David McNaughten

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Oh, I know you all right. Does eMortalz ring any bells?

  29. Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @IntLibber: You really need to check your facts before you type.

    Again, go run the search. We also average 10-20k on a daily basis, and we’ve been doing that for 2 years now. Our traffic is from actual residents, not from RL classes coming in two or three times a week. We break 20k when it gets busy, and I take pride in the fact that we have never once run a bot on our land, ever.

    … and just in case you think you can challenge how “real” we are, check out this web site:


    The annoying part of this is in the new 2.0 search we get buried 15 pages deep while tier 1 schools running ghost sims get the top results.

    @senban: Release some press releases that would scare gamers away (gamers being the largest source of new accounts, LL will take notice of that). Write about how LL takes our virtual property away with no rhyme or reason. Make it about how virtual goods are worthless. While you are at it, release some video of some pedo age players getting it on, say it’s a brothel. If they pick up the sex story, which you know they will, they’ll probably pick up the virtual goods story. Either way, just get LL’s PR team on CNN and they’ll shoot themselves in the foot like they always do.

  30. Gundel Gaukelei

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @Intlibber: If thats what he wants, lets show him just how busy we can make him and his people.

    Wrong conclusion. If, as you explained, his long term plan was more griefing in order to safe jobs, you make is plans fail by not griefing. Basic logics.

    The only thing you achieve by doing as you advised would be to show you and your allies importance.

  31. Gaara Sandalwood

    Apr 26th, 2010

    I was in TWH as a supporter. Tux was not in that group at all from what I recall.

  32. IntLibber Brautigan

    Apr 26th, 2010

    LOL @ David McNaughten,
    I know who is in The Wrong Hands. Tux Winkler, was most certainly NOT in the group. You SIR, are a retard. A putz. A buffoon. A moron. A smeghead. A twat. A numpty.

  33. GreenLantern Excelsior

    Apr 26th, 2010

    The only website I’ve seen that has a list of banned Woodbury-related avatars is here:


    That page is set up to allow comments, or they could be posted here. Is the list correct and current? I’m hearing that some people had their accounts restored.

    Is there any truth to the rumor that Loki Clifton is actually Rodney Linden?

    Last night someone rezzed some “Lemon Party” replicating cubes in the Abbotts sim. We had written Abuse Reports and were waiting for LL to show up, when some ex-Woodbury folks came by to chat. They were nice and didn’t cause any problems, and one of them friended me before leaving. I think the idea that they will cause massive griefer attacks for revenge is probably farfetched. They’ve seen their compatriots removed from the grid forever, and that’s a sobering sight.

    The quote about “it is every man’s moral obligation to resist and revolt” brings something else to mind:

    Count de Money (Harvey Korman): “Your highness, the peasants are revolting.”
    King Louis (Mel Brooks): “You said it. They stink on ice!”
    – The History of the World, Part 1

  34. Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @GLE: Nothing against your impeccable accounting, but I think the list on this site is more reliable:


  35. Tux Winkler

    Apr 26th, 2010

    “of course you had something to do with Woodbury, you were in their spinoff group “The Wrong Hands”, and narrowly escaped a permaban yourself. So you definitely fall into the WU chum bucket with the rest of the day old fishheads.”
    - Nope, you missed your mark. I was never a member of The Wrong Hands!

    “Oh, I know you all right. Does eMortalz ring any bells?”
    - Yes, I know Emortalz. It was a con group, led by a small time mafia wannabe from NC, scamming L$ from people. It took me very little time to get in there, remove their land and effectively shut the group down. I think they have come back as the church of jocephus or something just as sick.

    “They’ve seen their compatriots removed from the grid forever, and that’s a sobering sight.”
    - You know better than most to say forever. You know as well as the rest of us that people can come back from a hardware ban within minutes.
    - Wow, pushing Kalels site on here. Personally I would hit the woodbury site – XD.

  36. NebulaCS

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @ a furry
    See back when I was griefing it was furr fags like you that made me want to do it. Go take the dildo out of your ass and grow some nuts. Btw pn died early 2008 when nebula griefing took over, nebula died late 2009 early 2010 around December 19th. Also go die you retarded fag people like you are the worst.

    I am sad to see WU go as the majority of it really just was a bunch of people hanging around building somewhat unique and creative structures. The loss of the group is very sad and my condolences to them all. Who knows mabeh the linden fagetz are thinkin this be srs bns

  37. IntLibber Brautigan

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Busywork only lasts so long as the employer has the funds to pay for it. If the general public ceases to participate in the L$ economy for content or land, then LL will be forced to cut staff regardless of governance needs.

  38. lemon tree very pretty

    Apr 26th, 2010

    Oh my gawd, everybody have a cramp, somebody rezzed self-replicating Lemon cubes at abbott’s! Run Cubey run, the Lemons are after you, and your only hope is to blow an alert on your secret JLU encoder ring. Oh the humanity…

    Grown men playing kiddie games. I hope the Woodburys come back and keep showing how dumb you all are for taking the SL game seriously.


  39. Tux Winkler

    Apr 26th, 2010

    OMG I made the Kretinradio (deliberate typo) news story. Although the spandex zeros got it wrong (as David too . . hmmm). Ah well I guess they will all believe it and live their fantasy.



  40. Judge Joker

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @a furry

    You might want to invest in a Bully Proof Vest, before coming and posting here.


  41. David McNaughten

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @Tux – you’d be better off if you didn’t cry foul on things provably true. Remember why you use voice on those BDSM sims with the kids in the room – nobody can log that.

  42. Tux Winkler

    Apr 26th, 2010

    @ David
    “you’d be better off if you didn’t cry foul on things provably true. Remember why you use voice on those BDSM sims with the kids in the room – nobody can log that.”
    - haha, four mistakes in your post:
    1. I rarely use voice.
    2. I don’t go to BDSM sims.
    3. When I do use voice the children are asleep in bed.
    4. As you well know, I record all voice and video during my time inworld. So it does get logged.

    Go back to your sick little con group, church of jocephus group and try to find someone else to stalk. Because, I am not bothered.

    Why not post with your AV name? Because you are on a ban atm the moment for distributing RL info about people you have scammed? Right? Hahahaha to funny.

  43. Anon Gold SL Developer

    Apr 26th, 2010

    This sets a very dangerous precedent. If a developer can be completed screwed over and dropped without even basic phone communication for something a client’s done, *while having a contract explicitly with Linden Lab dealing with this client*, none of us are safe.

    Fuck whoever at Linden Lab did this. I will not stand for it.

  44. Jim Korpov

    Apr 26th, 2010


    These accounts were actually banned before the purge some even months before. Cam Scientist on the official list is actually incorrect.

    * Cam Scientist/Cam Mitchell
    * Grinn Mannonen
    * Information Core
    * Rena Kamachi
    * Rodd Woodget

    *Azzu Manga

    Joanna Falmer isn’t Tizzy it’s just one of Prokofy’s conspiracies.

    Who the hell is Anna Curtiss?

    Also Chav Paderborn is an active 2006 account why would someone who’s been permbanned 100s of times have an account just a few days younger than their original account?

  45. IntLibber Brautigan

    Apr 27th, 2010

    NOTE: I was also an SL developer, with RegAPI, a custom last name, and a member of the Community Registration system with an orientation island.

    I regularly ran into Linden Lab leaking proprietary data to competitors. For instance, at one point I was working with the Indianpolis Colts to develop an NFSL Football Game with hundreds of football stadiums to run during the superbowl with nationwide advertising, much like the CSI:NY project that Electric Sheep put together. This was going to be a multimillion dollar project for us.

    Glenn Linden was ecstatic and quickly got me RiskAPI capabilities so we could operate our exchange in a customized, branded NFL SL client. However, JP Linden interfered and took away my RiskAPI capabilities for no reason, and when I appealed I told him to talk to Glenn about our NFL project.

    Within two hours of me submitting that in a support ticket, Electric Sheep executives were talking to my customer telling them that Linden Lab said they should be working with the Sheep and not BNT.

    The President of the Colts told me that Linden Lab seemed to be the most unprofessional company he’d ever heard of and decided they would not do a superbowl project in Second Life because they didn’t trust Linden Lab, and apologized for wasting my time.

    When I hit the roof yelling at the Lindens about this, they all denied having leaked anything, which is absolute BS. Glenn couldn’t get a straight answer from anybody about it and said he was sorry that things fell through. It was at that time that things started turning sour between myself and the lab. I have very good reason to hate how the Lab does business. Several million very good reasons.

    I’ve had similar experiences with Lindens interfering with smaller development projects. The only one they didn’t seek to drive away was Woodbury.

    Other developers should take warning about this. The lab is corrupt, they play favorites, and they leak.

  46. Sylauxe

    Apr 27th, 2010

    “Fuck whoever at Linden Lab did this. I will not stand for it.”

    I doubt you can stand for more than 2 minutes at a time.

  47. Darien Caldwell

    Apr 27th, 2010

    Anybody who thinks Woodbury had anything to do with education is sorely in need of one.

  48. MOAR

    Apr 27th, 2010

  49. At0m0 Beerbaum

    Apr 27th, 2010

    Christ you people are fucking stupid.

    except sylauxe. he gets a gold star.

    Oh yeah, griefing will surely end now that those awful woodburies are gone!

    Oh wait, there’s still digital worlds, and then there’s the people who dont associate with any group, just reload alts, oh then there is the Patriotic Nigras, which is more than a one man show. Then you have emerald point, who were keen on crashing our sims repeatedly hours before they got shut down (interesting, almost as if they knew what was going to happen and made sure to keep the sim down to prevent any attempts at backing anything up…)

    woodbury didnt contribute shit to any in-world griefing. the rest was trumped up bullshit by people who needed a scapegoat for all the random griefers on the grid.

  50. nb

    Apr 27th, 2010

    Am I gonna have to call a WHAAAAAmbulance?

    Woodbury got sims. Woodbury members started fucking around. Woodbury members got banned. Rinse, repeat till someone at LL had enough. woodbury lost sims.

    Woodbury got sims. Woodbury members started fucking around. Woodbury members got banned. Rinse, repeat till someone at LL had enough. woodbury lost sims.

    *shrugs* You can twist the facts and talk full circle to explain that LL did something wrong here, and that Woodbury members are meak innocent lambs but no-one gets the boot just like that.

    Let alone twice, let alone losing all the sims associated with the group twice.

    LL didnt do anyone wrong here, they just made use of that one clause in the TOS everyone *still* happily agrees on when signing in:

    LL owes everyone exactly NOTHING. No explanation, no refunds, no sims, no accounts.

    Stop bawwwwing, find a sandbox to put up your longcats and lulz.

    (PS wether or not Woodbury was a griefer group, better check that with all woodbury members, as some above comments show, they’re not even sure on the inside. Some are griefers, others not, but as it goes, it’s always some spoiling it for the rest of the group)

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