Chainsaw M Linden Gets The Chop – Philip Linden Steps In
by Pixeleen Mistral on 25/06/10 at 11:26 am
Linden Lab CEO M Linden is stepping down, after axing 30% of the Lab’s staff in recent weeks and pulling a surprise no-show for his speech at the Second Life 7th Birthday celebration. Philip Linden has been named interim CEO in a move that raised the hopes of residents with short memories, but left those who recall the reign of king Philip un-moved — and brought frowns to the faces of those who realize the Lab’s board of directors have signed off on the Lab’s questionable strategies over the last few years. Philip Linden is the chairman of the Linden Lab board.
M Linden land offline permanently?
Funeral arrangements for M Linden’s avatar’s remains are uncertain. The Linden mass grave in Rouge sim would seem to be an obvious choice for a memorial, but when asked for comment sim owner CodeBastard Redgrave was concerned about possible griefing.
Pixeleen Mistral: do you have a headstone for M Linden yet?
CodeBastard Redgrave: lol not yet.. think he deserves one?
Pixeleen Mistral: why not? it will be interesting to see what sort of gifts the residents leave by it
CodeBastard Redgrave: or get my sim griefed lmao
CodeBastard Redgrave: but i’m thinking about it, honestly. he was not such a bad guy, he just had a dirty job to do.
The immediate impact of the return of Philip Linden on the L$ market was neutral, and volumes on the LindenX L$ spacebux currency exchange remain low. After dropping significantly in value against the $USD in the last week, the L$ fictional currency seems unlikely to strengthen in the near term.
Danziel Lane
Jun 25th, 2010
Hehe … the graveyard on Rouge … did you watch this vid of Lex, who made it about 2 weeks ago?
(I know it’s true, cause I asked Codie to put 2 flowers, which are not to be seen on that vid.)
Watch till the end:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJmRqsDqwqA
hobo kelly
Jun 25th, 2010
Wellsum I reckon iffen ya watch this here video youall might think ya just ate a can o’ that Frisky’s “Feed Yer Senses” cat food. I dun knowed somebody what did that once. He dun ate a can o’ that whacky cat food what makes your cat start hallucenatin in them thar tv commercials. He thought iffen it worked fer cats mebbe it would work fer him. Mebbe it were M…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLat0ODnrls
An after ya all watch that one youall will need somethin ta warsh it outta your brain, so I reckon youall can watch this here vidi iffen ya feel brave an all. Fon fon fon mit der autobhan…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLat0ODnrls
.
hobo kelly
Jun 25th, 2010
I reckon I meant this here one, just fer fun and hopin King Phillip undoes some wrongs…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COJYNsDzies
marilyn murphy
Jun 25th, 2010
i feel like the currency exchange, neutral. i see this, and its like, nothing to see here, and moved along.
the churning of personnel really doesn’t matter. things that needed to be fixed years ago are still broke. this isn’t even a diversion.
phillips track record as regards dealing with residents problems is not encouraging.
i am still cynical about this chain of events indicating the doom of sl. sl has limped along for years, and probably will limp along for more. you have to come to grips with the fact that LL is not interested in making it better, and deal with what we have. current regular residents appear to have that resignation ground into them and so sl will limp into the next decade.
Father Jones
Jun 25th, 2010
M Linden feels it is getting too hot under his feet. He knows SL is going down when Linden Lab’s involvement in gambling will be uncovered and stops an important million US dollars income. More lindens will be fired and trust in Linden Lab comming from company’s and governments worldwide will finally colapse. What goes around comes around. It is unstoppable. Historical proof can not be wiped out anymore. The end is near for all beautiful things built by beautiful people in SL, due to the crooks at management.
It's Unfixable
Jun 25th, 2010
The end is near, the sky is falling. Run in circles, scream and shot. Oh, and the Herald was scooped by pretty much everyone on this one. Asleep at the switch as usual.
Pepper
Jun 25th, 2010
Wow…..isn’t Philip the man who thinks fixing the viewer can be done piecemeal and for chump change?
Sigmund Leominster
Jun 25th, 2010
NeXt Up!, a research company under the umbrella of Global Silicon Valley Partners, published its annual report on Linden Lab just two months ago. One statistic is worth repeating: “Premium Subscribers Account For Only 1% of the Total Registered Users.” I don’t know about anyone else, but if I were running a business where only 1 in 100 people paid me for my product, I’m not sure I’d be around for long.
Of course, premium subscriptions are not the only source of revenue of Linden Lab, but if 99% of your customers are getting a “free” product, that will come back and bite you.
And let’s not forget the competitive landscape, which ISN’T, as you might think, simply other virtual worlds, but TIME. If you’re able to get by on one hour of sleep per day and spend the other 23 hours sat at your computer, you still only have 23 hours in which to use SL, check your e-mail, hop onto Facebook, catch up on your MySpace, trawl LinkedIn, Plurk yourself rigid, and then order pizza online so you don’t have to waste time off your keyboard. And the plethora of online options continues to grow. All of these are competing for your time, and that’s one thing no amount of money will buy for you. So unless LL can persuade people to spend all there time in-world to the exclusion of everything else – and pay for the privilege – life, Second or First, will be a challenge.
And no, this is not a “The End is Nigh” post – although frankly there maybe a point at which investors would want to cut their losses – but a reminder that the business of running a virtual world in real life is a lot more complex than folks might think. Apparently that goes for Mark Kingdon, too.
Gaara Sandalwood
Jun 25th, 2010
Eh, I’m looking forward to seeing what will happen. I only started playing in the very middle of M’s reign so I have no clue from experience what Philly’s was like, but I heard good things about it.
“The end is near, the sky is falling. Run in circles, scream and shot. Oh, and the Herald was scooped by pretty much everyone on this one. Asleep at the switch as usual.”
Oh you~
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Jun 25th, 2010
Pretty amazing the shear amount of butt hurt Lind Lab not making their profit target is causes the residents. While I am sure it sucks to be a laid off Linde, but hey that’s life in high tech land and the party goes on. So what is the dealt, are you clowns with the major hysterics living your life vicariously threw you favorite Linden?
It's Unfixable
Jun 25th, 2010
A certain amount is understandable, since people do actually make some of their livings on this thing. But largely, yeah, Norton, you’ve got a point.
Yep
Jun 25th, 2010
I do not envy Mark taking the wheel of a ship that is run aground in a vile cess pool of porn and other disgusting content.
Mark did do a good job of cleaning up ad farms and other blight on the mainland. It is a shame he did a half a$$ job of cleaning up the rest of the perveted filth that uglies the grid. Maybe we can be lucky and the next one who takes control will finish the job and close down pervy land and send the sickness elsewhere (out back in the trash) where it belongs.
IntLibber Brautigan
Jun 25th, 2010
Actually, it looks like some degree of confidence in the return of Philip has evinced on Lindex, even if the price hasn’t returned to “normal”. The number of L$ buy limit orders has doubled, to over L$45 million, while sell limit orders have waned a bit, to L$207 million, with sellers outnumbering buyers by about 4.6 to 1, a far lower ratio than we’ve seen since the start of the price excursion last week. The lowest it got all the past week was 5.6 to 1, and frequently exceeded 10 and 14 to 1 ratios.
I am still predicting another spike within a week, but with Philip back it may not be as strong as the previous one. If the ratio drops below 2 to 1 we may see the price begin to return to its historic, managed, range. That will require some rather large ordering behavior that can only be done by one avatar…
marilyn murphy
Jun 25th, 2010
@yep: well. cleaning up porn and other disgusting content. i dont have any facts or figures on this, only simple observation in sl. i just imagine that if you got rid of all the porn, you would also lose a very large group of visitors to sl.
whether they pay for the service or not, many who buy $L now would stop.
personally i don’t care if sl is disneyfied. go ahead. as things are now, i wish to point out, those who want to avoid such “disgusting content”, can.
frankly, in order for sl to make money, they probably should be embracing such content.
We
Jun 25th, 2010
The Herald has been slow on or even completely missing a lot of big stories lately.
I wouldn’t be surprised if part of the reason M Linden was put in charge was to be the “bad guy”, to do the things that needed to be done: whipping things into gear, and cutting down the staff, without putting the blame on Philip. If so, it worked fantastically, so many people seem to be celebrating Philip coming back, forgetting that he was pulling a lot of the same shit M pulled, except without results.
Father Jones
Jun 25th, 2010
They are embracing the quiestionable content. When Phillip comes back you can be sure the disgusting content will continue to exist on the grid. Phillip Rosedale himself scripted the very first simple slotmachine in SL, open source and full perm. Guess what, not much later the casino’s popped up all over the place. Phillip will continue to support the gambling that still is going on, both underground and with the ‘TOS compliant’ skillbased cover. It is pathetic a company wanting to be taken seriously worldwide is depending on millions of dollars comming from gamblers buying linden dollars to play those games. The gambling ban was a big show. At first the list of games that were banned contained also the word ‘bingo’; that word has been deleted from the list 6 months after the ban to allow Zyngo and to safe their asses that way. A Californian based company allowing bingo to be played on a high roller level as a game of skill. That is what makes Phillip and the involved lindens (like the G-team) the biggest crooks of all.
Curious
Jun 25th, 2010
there is lots of money to be made from pud pulling noobs wandering around with freebee prim penis’s scaring the big money away.
IntLibber Brautigan
Jun 25th, 2010
Father Jones, you evidently have no clue what the rest of the worlds business community thinks of gambling. The European division of VISA, for instance, makes most of its profits off of the casino business there. Gambling is an even larger business in China, where 40% of the GDP of Macau is from gambling.
The puritanical prudishness in the US against gambling is a quaint artefact of the number of crazy christian nutjobs we have here in the US, which is consistent with the insane sexual prudery here as well.
Despite that, companies as large as Trump and MGM have major gaming interests. Penn National Gaming (NASDAQ: PENN) is a publicly traded company that is the third largest gaming company in the US, with assets of around $5 billion.
Likewise, in Britain, companies as large as British Sky Broadcasting also have significant gaming interests.
We
Jun 25th, 2010
@IntLibber
I don’t think the problem with Gambling is “puritanical prudishness” I think it’s more that it’s basically a scam that preys off the human thought process that believes that if there’s a chance of something happening that it will happen. Not to mention that it tends to attract shady people to run those types of places, not just because it’s mostly illegal, but because it’s pretty ethically shaky.
It's Unfixable
Jun 25th, 2010
@We – that wouldn’t surprise me one bit, frankly. Maybe Philip just couldn’t bear to do what needed to be done himself, and hired a “bad cop” to do what had to be done.
Ajax Manatiso
Jun 25th, 2010
Remembering the days when Phil was in charge — crashing in mid tp and then not being able to log in for hours, someone buying the land next to your house and putting up a 100×100 ad sign for Zyngo, warning popups telling you not to transact lindens until you get the all clear — during the grand opening of your new store, having a crowd come into your club only to get a popup saying the sim will restart in 5 minutes, your prim hair returning to your inventory and every time you try to wear it getting a message that says ” an object is already pending for that position” — ahhh, yes, the good old days… Phil will certainly make things like they once were!
Persephone Bolero
Jun 25th, 2010
@IntLibber “The puritanical prudishness in the US against gambling is a quaint artifact of the number of crazy christian nutjobs… ”
The anti-online gaming crusade in SL was a result of the Unlawful Internet Gaming Act. It’s a fine piece of nanny statism that says that adults are incapable of deciding what forms of entertainment to spend their money on.
It’s a lot like the drug war, which is essentially a massive government bureaucracy that runs around telling adults “don’t put that in your mouth!”
It’s really facsinating how many people want to run everyone else’s life. I’m quite capable of deciding whether or not I want to gamble, just as I’m capable of deciding what intoxicants I want to consume. And the casino owner that offers me the opportunity to gamble is in no way a crook, as Father Jones implies. We’re adults engaging in consensual transactions. Butt the hell out.
Persephone Bolero
Jun 25th, 2010
@We “it’s basically a scam that preys off the human thought process that believes that if there’s a chance of something happening that it will happen.”
And so if I put up a casino, you just have to gamble right? You don’t have the option to say…walk away?
Before you make the lame arguments about gambling addiction, I’ll acknowledge that some people engage in gambling in ways that are harmful to themselves. And they may shirk responsibilities that end up harming others.
Does that mean that in society we may only engage in activities that no one ever abuses? Can you name an activity that no one ever does. Whether it be sex, WoW, alcohol, television, hand washing, jogging, or Second Life, some people do engage in these activities in harmful ways. Does that mean the providers of these activities are preying upon the weakness of others? Does that mean that the rest of us should have our choices limited according to the irresponsible behavior of the minority that engage in activities in harmful ways?
Or should adults just be expected to make choices according to what they think is best for themselves and be left to the consequences of disadvantageous choices? Quite frankly, I’m not responsible for gambling addicts’ behavior. But when I’m denied the option to gamble, that’s exactly what happens.
We
Jun 25th, 2010
@Persephone
I’m not sure what you’re responding too exactly, all I mentioned is that the problem people have with casinos, I’d say, has less to do with some kind of religious objection, and more that it’s basically a scam based off that aspect of human nature where someone hears a “1 in 1,000,000,000 chance of winning” and automatically thinks “I could be that one!”, and that casinos tend to be run by shady people. Your response has absolutely nothing to do with that statement, I wasn’t even saying they should or shouldn’t be banned.
Persephone Bolero
Jun 25th, 2010
@We The notion that offering games of chance is scamming people tends to run to the argument that it should be banned to protect people, who according to this line of thinking, are incapable of making choices in their own best interest. If that’s not the case with you, then my arguments wouldn’t apply.
I would argue, however, it’s not a scam at all. If an adult decides it’s worth the risk to play a game of chance and willingly puts his or her money up for risk, then how can he or she be scammed?
IntLibber Brautigan
Jun 25th, 2010
We,
As long as the odds of winning are publicly published, and are factual, there is no ethical violation involved. You may be confusing ethics with morality. They are two different things, but it is common for the morally self righteous to make that sort of confusion.
It is true that most people are very bad at estimating risk, and understanding what risk means, for instance, even tho nobody has ever been killed by a meteorite, the odds of dying from an impact of one are better than the odds of winning the lottery, even though millions of people have won prizes in various lotteries. The meteorite risk comes from the odds of a extinction level asteroid impacting earth and killing everybody, and not from your garden variety shooting star. Dinosaur-killers happen along every 30 million years or so, while the Powerball odds are 1 in 70 million or so… but there are dozens of powerball winners each year, and the last major impact was 5 million years ago, long before the human species arose. Because of this, hundreds of millions of people buy lottery tickets each year, and, when the after tax value of the prize grows larger than the odds, the return on risk is larger than 100% and it actually becomes an investment grade risk, even though the odds of winning are still extreme.
That all said, whether or not a person accepts such a risk is ethically neutral. For someone to offer such odds is also ethically neutral. What is not ethical is to claim odds different from the actual odds.
Now, is it moral? Surprisingly, there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits gambling. In fact, the Bible says that God has accepted the results of gambling:
“Joshua then cast lots for them in Shiloh in the presence of the LORD, and there he distributed the land to the Israelites according to their tribal divisions. (Joshua 18:10, NIV) ”
Wow, was that immoral or unethical of Joshua to do? God didn’t seem to think so.
Those who dislike gambling tend to do so because the rewards of gambling (like the rewards of risking capital in any way) are seen by puritanical peasantry as being somehow dishonestly gained, because they didn’t break their back and sweat for it, but another reason is that the wealth gained from winning at gambling is not a result of actual wealth creation through adding value to things, gambling is truly a zero sum economical game, where there must be losers for there to be a winner.
This is a distinction from investing, where winners can gain wealth when the market values their investment more, there doesn’t need to be a loser for there to be a winner in investing.
However, government is also a zero sum economic gain, with groups of thugs taking money from the productive, and wasting it on the bureaucracy, weaponry, and largess of the state, which produces no net economic gain, no value added, no creation of wealth. I doubt, however, that people like Father Jones would see government as unethical or immoral like they do gambling…
We
Jun 26th, 2010
@Persephone Bolero & IntLibber
I wasn’t making any comment about whether it should be legal or not, just that I think it’s kind of a scam. Like I said before, it has not so much to do with “knowing the odds” but that psychologically, a person hears “1 in a million chance” and thinks that maybe if they play, that “one person” will be them. It preys on the psychological concept of human hope to take money from people for nothing, which is what makes it ethically shaky.
I don’t know why you’re quoting the bible for this IntLibber, the bible isn’t exactly a bastion of Morality, the same book that is okay with slavery, killing children, and wholesale murder for small infractions of God’s law.
I don’t know how a topic about M Linden stepping down and Philip Linden coming back has turned into a weird gambling debate to begin with.
Holger Gilruth
Jun 26th, 2010
I like that he is gone finally. But what happen, we will see. We can not do anything more then wait
Persephone Bolero
Jun 26th, 2010
@ We “It preys on the psychological concept of human hope to take money from people for nothing, ”
But it’s not for nothing. People gamble because they find it entertaining. They *want* to do it.
IntLibber Brautigan
Jun 26th, 2010
We,
Firstly, if something has a million to one odds, then, by definition, one out of a million players will win, so it’s not for nothing. Someone is a winner.
Secondly, only a suicidal person would say that hope has no value. If I buy a lotto ticket, it is because I enjoy the feeling of hope it gives and the entertainment of daydreaming about what I’d do with the winnings. I don’t expect to win, but its fun to dream, and as many philosophers have said over the centuries, hope is one of the best things in the world.
In fact, while the realist philosophers hold that truth is the goal of inquiry, the antirealist philosophers hold that since it is impossible to know truth, that hope is the goal of inquiry.
Thats pretty big heap medicine. All that for a few spacebux…
Curious
Jun 26th, 2010
and Second Life goes the way of Sodom and Gomorrah
We
Jun 26th, 2010
@Persephone
Yeah, I can see that and I actually enjoy Blackjack, but then why have money involved at all. I played Blackjack without any money involved and it was just as fun, unless you’re talking about the fun of getting money for nothing, which a.) doesn’t happen much in a casino, and b.) when it does, you tend to lose it anyways.
@IntLibber
Kind of a weird view isn’t it? I could say if something has 1 in a 1×10^8,000,000,000 odds, there’s still a chance of it happening, but that chance is so ridiculously unlikely, that I could spend an entire lifetime rolling dice and have it never happen. This especially doesn’t work in SL, where there’s no gambling oversight commitee to verify any of these odds or claims, all those casinos could have very well been completely lying about the odds, and in fact there was a 0 chance of winning, or if you do win, you might never get your money (the latter in fact has a story in this blog of happening).
I don’t see the value of false hope personally.
IntLibber Brautigan
Jun 26th, 2010
We,
Sorry, you seem to have trouble reading what I said. I dont know of anybody who guarantees you that you will win the lottery. But, if something has million to 1 odds, that means that one out of a million plays will be a winner. Since hundreds of millions of people play the lottery, and some people actually win, you’re conclusion that there is “no chance” is irrational and unreasonable.
This may be a weird point of view to you. It isn’t to people who are trained to think logically.
As for SL, there is, in fact, a gambling oversight committee in the Lab that reviews all games and approves and disapproves them. They do require that odds published are accurate, and they do require that makers of games provide examples for testing by the lab. So your statement about this is false.
I feel very sad for you that you value hope so poorly, and are so pessimistic about everything. I hope you get mental health treatment to deal with this depressive state.
We
Jun 26th, 2010
@IntLibber
I think it’s an odd view because it’s seeing it in terms of all people, not a more individual view. If I play the lottery, I’m not thinking it as an overall “someone has to win”, I’m thinking about whether or not I’LL win. And that’s why those odds make sense, it doesn’t matter to me that some person across the country wins.
I’ve never heard of any “gambling oversight committee” for SL, can you link to a page somewhere that proves this? I’ve heard of gambling machine owners vaguely claiming that their machines are “Linden approved” or something, but I’ve never seen any proof of approval or that any Linden has even seen or cares about their machines. Considering Linden Lab’s stance was at first to ignore Gambling in SL, then to ban it and pretend that stuff like “Zyngo” isn’t gambling at all, the idea that they had a committee to specifically overview gambling machines seems fairly far-fetched.
I just differentiate between hope and false hope, especially when a business thrives off false hope. Jeez, you sure love your personal attacks, I haven’t insulted you at all have I?
Little Lost Linden
Jun 26th, 2010
I’ve always thought the Zyngo machines were just like gambling. Not sure why they are still allowed. Haven’t researched it enough I guess. I sure hope something can be done to get SL back on track. The magic is missing, that is for certain.
___________________
Little Lost Linden
http://thebotzone.net
Marx Dudek
Jun 26th, 2010
I had a great big round and round with a Linden (can’t remember which one) over a Zyngo parlor that opened up two days after I purchased a mainland roadside plot on a lag-free sim – and after over 200 machines were installed on a 4096sqm plot, the performance plummeted. For some reason, the element of “the player making choices which affect the outcome of the game so it is not simply chance” makes it a “game of skill” – even if that “skill” is picking a wild spot on a Zyngo board. I was told that the decision on “games of skill” has already been debated and settled and will not be visited again by LL staff – the games stay.
Father Jones
Jun 26th, 2010
Some said here “All that for a few spacebux…”, but you should realise that gambling in SL these days is far more than just for a few L$. For an example of what we are dealing with: go to search or classifieds and type in ‘neptune gaming’, then teleport there. Look around on the 4 sims big casino, especially to the amounts of L$ you can gamble/win and the weekly contest boards too. We are talking about millions of L$, not just a few bux.
All the philosophical arguments made here are interesting, and do know I am personally not completely against gambling. But look at what the law in US prescribes, especially the law in California. And I know, there are plans to change that law, but then again: if they change that law and allow gambling, it will still be with games and owners that are REGULATED by law. The big problem of SL gambling is that it is totally UNREGULATED. Any guy worldwide that can script, can make a good looking game with flashy sound and graphics but can manipulate the odds in his favour. Linden Lab did not learn from their lessons. Before the gambling ban there were numerous abuse reports about scripted games that were designed to bankrupt casino’s from the competition. Through an llemail-instruction, a scripting crook could locate where his games were rezzed on the grid, and through a hidden channel he could ‘win’ with alts and take out the money. Also many gamers were screwed by games that were programmed to give out a win only once in a while. If we would be talking today about some innocent games where people can win or lose 5 to 10 L$ than I guess nobody would ever complain. But look at the size of it. There are also rumours that those big money casino’s in SL currently are used for money laundering. Why is that possible ? Because of the size and because it is not regulated.
The people here with common sense can say now: well never put your lindens in such a game if you think it is made by crooks. But that is not the point. Point is that Linden Lab allows this content to stay, earns millions of US dollars on it and knows it is fishy.
@IntLibber, you said: “As for SL, there is, in fact, a gambling oversight committee in the Lab that reviews all games and approves and disapproves them. They do require that odds published are accurate, and they do require that makers of games provide examples for testing by the lab. So your statement about this is false.” -> This is not entirely true, or let me say that statement is out of date.
After the gambling ban there was a Linden assigned to ‘regulate’ gaming in SL. You might know her: Zara Linden. The G-team followed her instructions when it came to gaming. She ‘approved or dissaproved’ the games by examples demonstrated to her by residents, but after a while Linden Lab realized that this was becomming dangerous for the company in a legal way (they probably were warned by one of their lawyers). One day, Zara Linden suddenly ‘dissapeared’ and it was said she left Linden Lab as an employee. After that, Linden Lab claimed they never approved any games in SL and that they would never approve or disapprove games in the future. The only thing the G-team does, is acting when they get an abuse report about for example slotmachines and such that are clearly gambling. They stick with the TOS and they act by that TOS, that is all. There is far from a gambling committee in SL. Also the odds does not have to be published because Linden Lab claims they don’t allow games of chance anymore. On a real game of skill, you don’t talk about odds. The only reason why Linden Lab would have a committee is not to protect the residents from malicious casinocrooks, but to protect Linden Lab from legal troubles. Why is there so few words written about gambling in the TOS ? Why does Linden Lab never clearly respond on questions about Zyngo and the other games ? They know it all is fishy and they can get in trouble with it. Another thing: why is sexual rated content all brought to a seperate adult grid and why all those gambling games today are still allowed everywhere on the grid ? The answer is simple: Linden Lab is looking the other way but enjoys the millions of dollars comming in from it. And indeed: they want everyone with question just to shut up and let it go. But before they claim a Zyngo is a game of skill because player has a choice which affects the outcome, they better check the law about it because with games of skill the outcome needs to be determined at least for 80% by the players choices, not by a multiplier and a devil that actually and randomly decide about the outcome of your Zyngo-session.
Persephone Bolero
Jun 26th, 2010
@We “Yeah, I can see that and I actually enjoy Blackjack, but then why have money involved at all.”
Because gamblers think it’s more fun, that’s why. It’s their money. What do you care?
@Father Jones “The people here with common sense can say now: well never put your lindens in such a game if you think it is made by crooks. But that is not the point.”
No, that is the point. Why is it that you feel that regulating people’s choices, which means limiting them, by a third party — who somehow is more capable at making people’s decisions in their best interest than they are — is a more efficient method of protecting people than people just taking responsibility for their own choices in life?
And you have to think what these regulations do. They tell people that they need not fear risk. Someone is allegedly protecting them from harm. People who know that the entire risk is on their shoulders will act with much more caution, and therefore, much more in their own best interest.
It’s like a mortgage lender that knows the government will bail out the borrowers if they can’t repay their loans. Is that a bank that will careful scrutinize mortgage applicants to ensure that they will indeed pay back the money they’re being lent? Or is that a bank that will take unwise risks without concern?
Why can’t people take a little responsibility for their own lives for once and let the rest of us live in freedom?
We
Jun 26th, 2010
@Persephone
I would say the thing about banning Gambling is not about being a nanny government to limit choice, but rather to do the other side of things: to limit the ability for bad people to get rich and powerful by using scams. People are rarely highly informed, and bad people will go to great lengths to make sure they’re not. If someone like that ran a casino with machines rigged only to pay out in small amounts every now and then to keep people playing, they’d never post the odds or they’d lie about it, and they’d never admit to such a scam. LL’s only choice is to either ban all gambling, or personally get involved, regulate gambling machines, regulate odds, investigate gambling claims, etc. The latter of which would probably come with all kinds of government oversight, required licensing to set SL as an official casino, and paperwork were it not completely illegal in California anyways. The problem is not just that people are ruining their own lives, but they’re also empowering bad people at the same time.
Former Linden
Jun 26th, 2010
Linden Lab has had more involvement with gambling than you folks think.
Pappy Enoch
Jun 26th, 2010
Good gawd, ya’ll. Git back on topic! This ain’t about no gamblin’ racket. It are about where in the hell to put ol’ King Mark’s tombstone.
I say just stick ‘er in sum place where I can take me a big ol’ tremenjus DUMP on it durin’ them funeral orgies.
Hoo whee. I plans to eat me a pile some o’ them awful-terrible Sebem-Eleven burritos just fo’ the occasion.
That rascal won’t be missed none in the fake world.
IntLibber Brautigan
Jun 26th, 2010
We,
Didn’t mean to make a personal attack, it does seem rather sad that someone has such a poor appreciation for hope, its what keeps humans alive when nothing else does, and makes life enjoyable when it would otherwise be drudgery. Lack of it is a sign of depression.
Fr. Jones,
While Zara is gone, there are others who oversee things. I am surprised you claim such inside knowledge but are not in the industry. Thats not likely unless you are a Linden yourself.
Actually, they do need to see that, absent the skill component, odds are the same for everybody, but with the skill component, odds can be changed by the player activity.
I’ve discussed this issue with Lindens and with other residents who are in the industry, as I had developed a game called Beach Blanket Blingo and was preparing to introduce it to SL shortly before my exit. Linden oversight and approval was required then, less than 8 months ago. I have not heard of any changes since then.
Persephone,
“Why can’t people take a little responsibility for their own lives for once and let the rest of us live in freedom?”
Indeed. Thats what Second Life was founded on, but it doesn’t take an idiot to notice that, as the busybody petty fascists have increasingly demanded, complained, coerced LL into banning or regulating activities they don’t like, economic growth in SL has waned. The history of SL is probably the greatest proof in existence of the truth of libertarian theory: that economies suffer due to regulation and prohibition of victimless activities. When you truly free an economy, its economic growth explodes into double digits.
It’s a bit telling that “Father Jones” uses a priestly moniker, a strong indicator of his personal predeliction to morality backed by religious fascism.
The fact is, that 99% of casinos in SL are so small in L$ volume that the cost of enforcement against them is far greater than the amount of money they make. You could probably make more money running an alley craps game, or at Thursday Night Poker.
The internet gambling ban, it is evident to everybody, is an unconstitutional law that acts to protect RL casinos perceived markets. It is unconstitutional because, as other supreme court rulings have decided, while congress has the right to regulate interstate commerce, banning an economic activity is not regulating it, and it is both unconstitutional, a violation of the WTO, and a violation of every diplomatic treaty, for congress to regulate the economic activities of American citizens when they are outside US borders. For these reasons, most rational people consider violating such an unjust law to be a civic duty, much like drinking at a speakeasy during Prohibition.
We
Jun 26th, 2010
@IntLibber
I don’t know where you get the idea that I’m somehow against the idea of “Hope” especially when I’ve explained twice now that there’s a difference between actual hope, and businesses preying off of FALSE hope.
No, I don’t appreciate the “hope” that one might obtain, when they walk into a casino and lose all their money on a slot machine with a million to one odds, thinking that they might be that one, as much as I would appreciate the “hope” someone might have by jumping off a cliff and hoping they’ll be able to fly. It’s reckless suicidal hope based on a centralized psychological idea that if something has a chance of happening, then it’s likely to happen to them. Casinos know it, and they prey off that idea, in the end the only winner in gambling is the person who owns the machines.
Judge Joker
Jun 26th, 2010
@Pappy Enoch
“This ain’t about no gamblin’ racket. It are about where in the hell to put ol’ King Mark’s tombstone.”
Well judging by these comments, might we all suggest it’s put in a special edition Zyngo machine? to mark the demise of the Lindens.
Then the good masses of resident’s left, can celebrate in their own way.
By crossing them bad Linden tombstones off your board, and perhaps you might just get a decent player payout!
Little Lost Linden
Jun 26th, 2010
“I would appreciate the “hope” someone might have by jumping off a cliff and hoping they’ll be able to fly.”
I tried this once, along time ago. Luckily, there was water at the base of the cliff and the jump was mostly for fun. It was about 50 to 60 feet total from the top of the cliff to the water base.
In performing the jump I proved to myself that indeed, I can not fly…
________________
Little Lost Linden
http://thebotzone.net
IntLibber Brautigan
Jun 27th, 2010
We,
Once again, you fail to distinguish the difference between zero odds and million to one odds. The difference is small but not infinitely so. Therefore your contention that it is quantitatively equal to jumping off a cliff is provably false. Firstly, your odds of surviving a cliff jump are zero for any cliff taller than x feet, demonstrably so with statistical histories, while people provably win at million to one odds all the time.
That said, I don’t know of any machines in SL with such thin odds, but then, its not really an industry I’m involved in.
Anyways, any game with million to one odds generally has a million or more players or plays, and someone wins. That someone wins proves you wrong.
Now, you may have no hope that you are that winner, if you are sufficiently pessimistic. People with depression usually are. That doesn’t mean your conclusion is rational or statistically accurate.
Casinos don’t “prey” on anything. Real world casinos, at least, are required to provide gaming experiences where the return on the risk averages 95%. Some of their games are less than this, some are more. Usually skill based games like blackjack and poker have a potential return on risk over 100% if players play with high skill.
I know that games in SL are scripted so the owner can vary the return on risk of their games, and also that Linden Lab requires that none operate below a given percentage.
If you do not understand what return on risk is, it is the ratio of the average winnings any given player can earn to the risk. So, for instance, if the prize is L$950,000 and the odds are a million to 1, then the return on risk is 95%. This also applies if there are lesser prizes at easier odds, one can sum the risks to reach a similar conclusion, such as if you risk 100 L$ and the odds are 50/50 that you can win 190L$, that is also 95% return on risk.
Mathematically both bets are equal, the only difference being that in order to have 50/50 odds to win L$950k at million to one odds per play, you need to bet L$500,000. Even then it is still a coin flip. This is simple and understandable to most people who are capable of rational thought.
Kiddoh
Jun 27th, 2010
This talk of odd reminds me of that lady who won the lottery twice in a row.
Pappy Enoch
Jun 27th, 2010
@Judge Joker: Linden-Layoff Zyngo!
Hoo whee. I aims to pull our the 14L in my fake bank and invest it in that-there scheme. I will split them profits wif you.
Sophia
Jun 27th, 2010
You know you really have to stop the speculation. People have really (thats is REALLY) lost their jobs. i may not have known them REALLY bu tI know well it hurts to REALLY loose your job.
I have survived layoffs and cutbacks and been that lone soldier left behind at times and It was not always a happy time.
I know most take joy in this one last let go but one let go is never a good sign. i really feel bad. I don’t care who it is and ewwwwww the scary linden lol thing.
The linden syndrome has got to end. lets call them employees please and let them walk thru like we all do in second life from now on.
Tired of the god like thing. i never like it and never will think it’s cool. It isn’t never was and if it continues well set up a rehab for X- Lindens really.
I just want to say a job loss is a job loss no matter who it is period and a compant that is failing we all really enjoy is either about to tank or not well that saddens me.
I don’t want to jump for joy for others really bad turn of events people. Some where your friends. I really do not know for sure who i know in SL that was or was not. They could have said they were or not. I did not care. Serious. It seemed to be a trend to either be ohh afraid of one or oh so popular to know one.
Well i was a pioneer of what got them to what they r today . Wheres my garland of roses? hm I don’t expect one. They just learned the big leason many i knew back in the 70′s and 80′s what life is really all about.
Your all disposable no matter what position your in and if a CEO is let go trust me he isn’t to bad off. He’s got places to go things to do lol and much more than you think going on for them than others.
Trust me he will be just fine and so will most of the others but not all and why because that’s business. And it sucks! And they don’t care about you only the bottom line and thats $$.
ok im going to bed sleep tight everyone!
Sophia
Jun 27th, 2010
Sorry about the spelling ect. just off to bed and shutting down the PC after a long night.
Just wanted to say . I don’t like to see ever anyone loosing a job. It hurts to many people and I don’t like to hurt people. So support the ones who lost their jobs if you can or just move on.
I don’t know any of them personally so I can’t help them and I’m sure many others could care less. but lets hope they can get thru the loss ok. thats all i care about.
So the stupid platform stinks. i have a lot more to worry about myself. I’ll be in and out like most. It’s an inconvienience for me more so. So I’ll work around what i can. good luck people!