RedZone Circles the Drain
by Pixeleen Mistral on 28/02/11 at 12:30 am
Everyone who isn’t spoofing their IP, mac, or volume serial ID… leave
Unmistakable signs of FAIL hover over zFire Xue’s controversial RedZone “security” device after Linden Lab amended the community standards Thursday to require player permission before alt account information can be shared inside Second Life. RedZone has been marketed as an anti-copybot and anti-griefing device, but many believe this was simply a pretext to create a centralized database tying player alt account identities together – and do so without the knowledge of the players being datamined.
On the SLUniverse forums, players discussed zFire Xue’s threat to move the entire RedZone operation outside of Second Life and beyond the reach of Linden Lab policy, and share alt account information with anyone interested. Mr. Xue backed away from this threat, but not before an incriminating screen capture had been made.
zFire "the godfather" Xue threatens to move out of Linden Lab’s reach [click image to enlarge]
Anti-Redzone activists such as Theia Magic have begun using modified SL viewers to detect RedZone scanners, Ms. Magic appears to have caught Sweethearts Jazz Club owner Dilbert Dilweg running a RedZone scanner – despite Dilweg’s claims to the contrary. Look for a vigorous game of “hunt the RedZone probes” to play out over the next few weeks.
Arguing that RedZone is a morally bankrupt product is ItazuraR‘s instant classic YouTube video Redzone ist KAPUT
Meanwhile, on Mr. Xue’s Mad Scientist forums some RedZone owners complain that players are unlikely to opt in to revealing their alt accounts, limiting club owners’ ability to keep players running multiple avatars from entering contests or camping for L$ spacebux. Perhaps these club owners should move to a business model that includes a bit more compelling club experience than contest boards?
Unfortunately, the Lab left the door open for continued growth of RedZone and similar operations, despite player demands for a “do-not-track” option to opt out of all online trackers. This has led to speculation that the Lab is planning to enable significant user tracking from well known data miners such as Facebook.
I consulted with Plastic Duck – who has some history in evading online tracking – for how players might take a more active approach to protecting their privacy.
Plastic Duck: the biggest problem is peoples inability to do their due diligence in protecting their own information
when you’re doing things that could jeopoardize your quality of life if they ever became exposed, some mild encryption will protect you
I recently spoke to an SLer named [elided] who was suspended from her job as a [elided] after her RL facebook was linked to her SL facebook and subsequently a bunch of raunchy roleplay groups
Pixeleen Mistral: what can be done?
Plastic Duck: I see missed opportunities by Linden + other businesses if anything
clearly the average SLer is too dumb to subscribe to a VPN service and such a thing needs to be dumbed down even further, like maybe LL could start selling an SL VPN client
but at the end of the day if you want to be anonymous then stop doing things that compromise that
you need to find which side of the fence you want to sit on and stick to it, you can’t hang out with the cool kids and then get mad about your personal data being compromised when you have the freedom to hang with the tinfoil hat wearing gang
by using certain features of second life you are submitting your personal data willingly to redzone
Pixeleen Mistral: right
Plastic Duck: nothing sneaky is happening, YOU didn’t read the EULA that you agreed to
it’s all there
Pixeleen Mistral: its interesting how LL is forced to deal with this grudgingly
Plastic Duck: dealing with this sort of stuff has always been a fault of theirs
Pixeleen Mistral: this is the same thing as the Emerald datamine scandal from a year ago
Plastic Duck: it’s a known and documented use of technology
they don’t need to explain themselves
they just need to cut off the fear mongerers that are reducing profits
Pixeleen Mistral: or sell a premium service with some privacy and post a bond if the privacy is breached
selling virtual land is silly
sell privacy
Plastic Duck: maybe I will :p
like I said this stuff is trivial and I’m shocked that the people who care about privacy don’t know anything about it
we just need to take existing software, remove some buttons, add some bevels, and sell it
While the days of RedZone may be numbered, the demand for privacy-busting data mining services is unlikely to disappear, nor is the demand for privacy. Should Linden Lab consider selling a privacy-enhanced version of Second Life? Will a third party step up and provide a bundle of VPN and IP address proxies? Based on the outcry over RedZone it appears there is a market.
Nelson Jenkins
Feb 28th, 2011
1.) LL won’t sell a privacy-enhanced version of SL at all unless it contains backdoors.
2.) Block your goddamn media. Solves all of your problems. Most streams are garbage anyways.
3.) Wear a GreenZone HUD. If it goes off, just leave (if you followed #2, you won’t be datamined, but it’s a good idea to not patronize businesses/clubs that utilize spyware to spy on their visitors).
4.) Don’t buy RedZone just to play with it. At this point it is 100% useless, since the copybot detection has never worked and anyone with half a brain would decline requests for consent.
5.) zF and his henchman have been, and always will be, full of shit. Deal with it.
Alex Ponebshek
Feb 28th, 2011
“Arguing that RedZone is a morally bankrupt product is”… beside the point. People have *always* been correlating IP addresses using the media hole, regardless of whether there was a big-name product to do it.
Sure, maybe RedZone is made to exploit a certain security flaw… and it’s probably not even made with honest security-researcher intent, but rather for profiteering… but Linden Lab should really just close that hole. Amending their TOS is not a fix, it’s a false sense of security for users, who are still going to be tracked by anonymous RedZone-like products.
A fix would be buying a bit of extra hosting capacity and proxying media streams. Or just do a better job letting users know that accepting media streams may compromise privacy.
CarloAntonio Negulesco
Feb 28th, 2011
I have to wonder when the RedZone database will be hacked and leaked, like the Justice League database was.
Dave Bell
Feb 28th, 2011
Anything which uses HTTP will leak your IP address.
Anything you use on the internet will. Like your telephone number, it’s needed by the system to connect the call.
Redzone collects the data, and does things with it that are nothing to do with the delivery of any service. Redzone is the blind phone call you get in the middle of dinner, from somebody with an inpenetrable foreign accent, telling you that your phone company is over-charging you and they have the solution.
I’m not sure I’d make the claim of malice that pervades the rework of Der Untergang, but you’d have to be pretty ignorant to think that IP addresses are all that helpful in protecting against copybotters and griefers.
Gerard Winstanley
Feb 28th, 2011
A good article … until the daft interview with a dumb plastic duck muddled it up.
Nothing sneaky is happening? Come again? And what the hell is ‘SL Facebook’?
Observer
Feb 28th, 2011
TOS Section 8.3(i) forbids harvesting or collecting data on users without consent. The TOS does not explain what data is exempted.
TOS Section 4.3 is a loosely worded disclaimer as is the section in the privacy policy that says people might collect data on users.
However neither section 4.3 nor the privacy policy grants permission to collect data on users. They just say data might be collected. Section 8.3(i), however, explicitly prohibits data harvesting and collection of user data or information without consent.
The new Community Standards restriction is a meek attempt to contend with the fact the horse left the barn long ago.
As written, not just the redzone seller, but every second life user that has a non consensual data harvester or collector deployed would be subject to the same treatment that LL gives your average lulz griefer. So yea kind of an important topic.
LL needs to conduct a thorough TOS and policy review to correct their glaring discrepancies and lack of definition of what data is allowed to be collected without consent. They hired a new lawyer. Maybe she needs to get cracking on it.
Miki Gymnast
Feb 28th, 2011
There are other tools like Maya Realities (http://www.slideshare.net/Hackathorn/maya-realities-introduction-v2-presentation) or SecondAnalytics (http://www.liventura.com/blog/second-analytics-wird-beliebte-second-life-metrics-losung) , which use geo-locationing now for years. They advertise “hundred thousands of unique avatar profiles” in their databases and “over 900 regions current being monitored”, also on government-owned places like the NOAA-sims.
As a developer of SmartPatrol, a web-based visitor metrics tool, i sent a request in 2008 to LL to understand if ip-grabbing techniques of third-party enterprises violate their TOS or not: Finally Robin Linden gave green light for using such tools. Nevertheless we decided against implementing ip-grabbing, but the other tools collect data since years in their databases.
Small hint how to circumvent the tracking: don’t arrive with media (video or audio) on. Wait some time to switch it on after your arrival, and toggle it on/off from time to time for some seconds. Switch it off a minute or more before you leave. Then it will be very hard for them to combine avatar data with the ip address of their media stream. If you are alone on a parcel: don’t switch media on.
Inniatzo
Feb 28th, 2011
Yeah whatever, but the Downfall clip was funny.
Marx Dudek
Feb 28th, 2011
I suspect that the current update of the GreenZone HUD is no longer effective and there has not been an update in a few days. It has not gone off for me anywhere, and I know a few people who are running TPVs with the media-detection patch – they are showing media requests from “isellsl.ath.cx” in places where GreenZone is not alerting.
Marx Dudek
Feb 28th, 2011
And this video is HILARIOUS. Sheer brilliance.
Mysty Saunders
Feb 28th, 2011
Getting LL to fix things correctly is the right long term solution. However a short term solution needs to be done and this is where zFire fails. He is hosting isellsl.ath.cx off of his home cable modem (Comcast) in breach of their AUP (Acceptable Use Policy). Below is a copy of the e-mail I sent to abuse@comcast.net. I encourage others to email Comcast as well.
http://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Customers/Policies/HighSpeedInternetAUP.html
Anyone who wants a copy of the e-mail I sent please ask me inworld.
Yep
Feb 28th, 2011
Go getem Tiger
tracey sth
Feb 28th, 2011
the witchunt has begun. http://rzreports.tumblr.com/
Nelson Jenkins
Mar 1st, 2011
@ Miki Gymnast
While I’m not going to come out and say IP harvesting is legal in the first place (clearly it’s been proven that such activity is blatantly illegal), the concept of tying the IPs together to detect alts is quite immoral, to say the least, especially since many people do not want their alts known to others and this information can just be captured in a blink of an eye. (I have one account tied to me that I’ve never been on. However, RZ has, so far, failed to tie me to 3 of my 4 alts.)
Then you have to take into consideration the whole concept under which zF sells this thing. It claims to detect copybots, but it clearly doesn’t. There are HUNDREDS of tutorials on how to get around RZ. In fact, let me make one more:
1.) Go into Preferences -> Audio & Video.
2.) Uncheck “Enable Streaming Music/Media When Available”, “Automatically play media”, and “Let scripts control my play button”.
3.) Check “Turn off media when you change parcels.”
4.) Apply and let dry.
Despite what zF says to pump up his fanbase, this will destroy the IP harvesting aspect of the system. (It will still detect you and be able to track your movements, but tying alts together will be impossible, as will most copybot detection algorithms.) So as long as you don’t really care if people know where you are, you just broke RZ. Congratulations. Now, do you know any copybotters who would be too stupid to understand how to perform these 4 simple steps? Hence, the argument that “RZ detects copybotters” is completely moot. The only copybotters it detects are innocent people that got a shitty IP that was previously used by someone dumb enough to use a copybot viewer from 2009.
Now, you may ask, “but Nelson, RZ is useful for land management!” To which I say: “please proceed to defecate on a plate and consume your own feces”. You know what’s a useful tool for land management? Not being a lazy asshole and actually actively monitoring your land. Human eyes (albeit through a computer screen) are far better “copybot detectors” than any scripted object in-world. If you absolutely, positively need “visitor trackers” and whatnot, there are cheaper alternatives with FAR better interfaces and nearly-obscenely better security.
Which brings me to my next point. Independent security auditors have deemed RZ’s website the internet equivalent of a liquor shop in the ghetto. It’s a miracle it hasn’t been leaked yet. (Perhaps it has, but only privately.) In comparison, a default Drupal installation probably has better security. The land management tools that you touched upon that employ geolocation? I’m about 100% sure they have better security measures in place. All RZ has is an Atbash cipher and ICMP ping filtering somewhere in his home network, from what I can tell. Pro marks there. I’m pretty sure my router enables ICMP filtering by default.
So, all in all, the method in which zF uses the IP addresses is what’s the big problem here. I can deal with some land management tool geolocating me – sure some can’t, and that’s fine, I understand, not to mention it’s illegal in the first place. But using IPs to detect alts (which has been proven to be quite a futile endeavor) is completely out of line, then selling that information for US$17 is both a scam and immensely immoral. (Not to mention RZ owners can have their alts hidden.)
I can’t really begin to elaborate on how insane it is that some guy with a Mac in his basement can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars selling unreliable gossip about others. Worse still is the fact that Linden Lab stood idly by for the most part. And to top it all off? All they did was change the TOS. RZ still collects alt data. Most likely some people have unfettered access to it. Nothing has changed because of this.
I also took a look at the Maya Realities deal you mentioned ( http://www.slideshare.net/Hackathorn/maya-realities-introduction-v2-presentation ) and I believe that it is relatively OK for two reasons:
1.) It serves a legitimate purpose – showing landowners how avatars respond to different in-world stimuli. This can be used to make SL better by offering more immersive, attractive experiences.
2.) Visitors are warned of the data collection and can opt-out if they wish.
RedZone offers neither of these benefits.
At0m0 Beerbaum
Mar 1st, 2011
The problem with programs like these is that the creators do not create them with making a better virtual world in mind, not at all. They use it as a form of control over people they don’t like and neither should you. Essentially, control freaks.
Banlink = was used by people who wished they were lindens to try to block people they just didnt like out of “popular” parts of SL, most notably, abused by the JLU every time they found a new “tizzers” alt (often was not even an alt, but someone they wanted to tar and feather to make it seem like tizzers was lex luthor and kept coming back, screwing over someone innocent)
The Emerald fiasco = great example of a griefer/copybot control system being abused to the creator’s advantage.
RedZone = seems like a knock off of the emerald bullshit, likely with the same intentions. Even more damning when the creator’s first response is to willingly break rules in response to the lindens going “hell no, you cant use this to track people” and bring it out of “their jurisdiction”
people need to realize, each and every time someone tries to augment or replicate an existing system and promise that it will help fight against bad people or make you tons of money, it is not to your advantage. It’s to fuck you.
LL has a money system, LL has a rule system and a way to report people, it also has a ban system that allows you to remove people from your lands. Use these instead of entrusting your (virtual) goods to third parties.
This was one of the reasons I grew weary of SL, everyone seems to be extremely gullible and stupid.
Amazing that after a good year or so of being gone from SL, that the same crap is going on. No one fucking learns anything.
Yep
Mar 1st, 2011
YAY! Go getem Tiger
Dr Fell
Mar 1st, 2011
so are you guys going to report on the issue about ageplay in club tera and heart park or do nothing about it? laughs. whatever…..
Emperor Norton hears a who?
Mar 1st, 2011
I am still trying to figure out of what kind of idiot buys Redzone for their club or store? Figure, any giefer/ drama queen/ troll is just going to get an alt, turn off the media and let the LUZ roll. The only people it works on would be the store or club owner’s friends.
Nelson Jenkins
Mar 2nd, 2011
@ Yep
I have, as of yet, resisted the normally-resistible urge to ask what your problem is here, but you’ve piqued my curiosity here. Is it something I said? Is it my avatar? Or do you just have some weird fetish for following me everywhere?
@ Dr Fell
I tend to think that the media attempts to report on things that are relevant (or that they wish to make relevant) to the majority of their readers. For example, reporting on someone’s cat gone missing in USA Today would be quite a stupid decision.
In that sense, RedZone seems rather relevant to most people in SL (as evidenced by zF’s alarming, but undoubtedly inflated, statistics). Ageplay in some sim that I (along with most people in SL) have never visited is probably not. It’s illegal. It’s CLEARLY illegal. If it were reported, LL would most likely handle it with ease. Big deal. In comparison, RedZone is a complicated mess of legal bullshittery. While it was certainly LL’s obligation to handle it, they didn’t because they had no 100% clear policy on the matter (whereas ageplay is quite blatantly against the rules), thus creating even more reason to report on it.
Or, perhaps, we can fall on the age-old reasoning: nobody really gives a shit.
Yep
Mar 2nd, 2011
Nelson Jenkins
Mar 2nd, 2011
@ Yep
I have, as of yet, resisted the normally-resistible urge to ask what your problem is here, but you’ve piqued my curiosity here. Is it something I said? Is it my avatar? Or do you just have some weird fetish for following me everywhere?
LOL no I just like ya
and we just happen to visit the same forums.
Jingerlee Bailey
Mar 2nd, 2011
(Quoting)
Meanwhile, on Mr. Xue’s Mad Scientist forums some RedZone owners complain that players are unlikely to opt in to revealing their alt accounts, limiting club owners’ ability to keep players running multiple avatars from entering contests or camping for L$ spacebux. Perhaps these club owners should move to a business model that includes a bit more compelling club experience than contest boards?
Maybe you should move to a business model that is a bit more compelling than writting this blog?
About redzone?And dictating how a club should change its forms of entertainment to accomodate your privacy, Linden Labs should stop this problem and not allow more than one alt…no one needs 15 alts, anyway you look at it alts are out deceiving or to harm someone…when in such large numbers. Clubs are non profit…money pits and when you have no beer or food or sex to sell just what is it you could suggest to drive the customers there..that would be a more compelling club experience than having contests and contest boards?Then when you do provide some entertainment form of a prize only to have it scammed and took over by one person with 15 alts and no way to prove it, or maybe its a disgrunteled x staff with 15 alts taking advantage of your giveaways ..its the same thing as cobybots stealing your content, and the redzone finally gave us a small line of defence in combating this problem..its true that it is not 100% accurate but it was more accurate than it was wrong truth benown..if you get one name and 6 others that are linked together from whatever source it gives you at least a heads up to watch the names without it you would have to ban everyone thusfar no business…We should have a right to protect our business and lands wihtout being harrassed and invaded from thrill seekers.
Gripes me to see people making comments about stuff they know nothing about..after battling alts/griefers for 3 yrs I am now out of business…2800 member club at one point..wished I had found the redzone gadget 2 yrs ago…instead of too late.. No one wants their privacy invaded but way I feel these griefers should not be allowed to run rampant in secondlife destroying business’s redzone was designed to detect copybots..and in doing so also detected alts…win win situation…even locking down your land—checkmarking Payment on file..does no good…alts can add payment on file to each account and still come wreak havock on you and your business..this should be a problem that was handled by Linden Labs…but at least the creator of the redzone tried to give us a bit of protection and why shouldnt he get paid for it? redzone is now banned from showing alt names ..but now with the big uproar over it..at least it will open up Linden Labs to fix the problem and make everyone happy instead of doing nothing…there is power is numbers…funny how it takes both sides of a debate to get the numbers up though..we should not have to stop the music or place landmines all over our secondlife…seems as of this decision the griefers have now declared a new freedom to grief war…get ready!
General Drama
Mar 2nd, 2011
Yep, Lolol and Tux Winkler are all the same person, so start your search there.
Yep
Mar 2nd, 2011
“Yep, Lolol and Tux Winkler are all the same person, so start your search there.”
LOL you are as wrong as redzone.
.
Yep
Mar 2nd, 2011
Bye bye redzone
“Soft Linden commented on VWR-24746:
———————————–
Hey, all. I got the go-ahead to give an update on zF Red Zone specifically.
Again, thank you for the ARs with specific info about violations. These have
been very helpful for letting Lindens know what’s going on.
Tuesday morning, we removed zF Red Zone from the Marketplace for a second time.
We removed the in-world vendor distributing the item as well. We determined that
zF Red Zone was still in violation of our Terms of Service and Community
Standards.
We asked for removal by no later than today of all zF Red Zone functionality
that discloses any alternate account names. That is, even if consent is asked,
the service may not act on the consent. In addition, we asked for removal by no
later than Friday of the interface for and any remaining implementation of the
zF Red Zone consent mechanism because it does not comply with our policies. If
these updates are not made, we will take appropriate steps to remedy the
violations.
As before, we appreciate your help in keeping an eye on content. If you find
that any merchant’s product is not in compliance with our TOS or our Community
Standards, please file an abuse report about the product. Do this even if you
filed against a previous version. Include a specific explanation of what you
believe is a violation, and ideally select and report the in-world object at
issue in case it behaves differently than what’s in the Marketplace. Before
reporting, make sure you have first-hand knowledge of the issue. Support can
best react if you explain specific steps to reproduce or confirm a violation”
Dave Bell
Mar 2nd, 2011
I would question whether competitions are a cost-effective way of attracting people into clubs.
I’ve been in places where the proprietor is closer to being a griefer than any customer, using intrusive chat/sound gestures which swamp any attempt at conversation with ASCII art, and disrupt the streaming media with whoops and howls and animalistic vulgarity. I complained after a burst of some 50 lines, and got ejected.
I’ve been involved in running a few RL events in my time, and I know being a host or DJ isn’t for me. Tech is no substitute for talent. I can see the appeal of what Redzone purported to do, but it’s method is so blatantly flawed that I find it hard to believe that it wasn’t a fraud from the start. And if your’re somebody who thinks your business depends on a fraud, I’m afraid that I have to consider you delusional.
GothGirl
Mar 2nd, 2011
All I have to say is I gave Zfire Xue the benifit of the doubt until I watched him accuse me of being a Thief in SL, and manually added my information into his database. After that it became clear his system, and possibly if he refused to follow LL instructions had to be removed his account.
For the last years I have been against CDS & Red Zone, Rest assured that CDS Does not work worth crap at all, and now creators have no defense at all..
I lost my account in the fight, all my accounts were removed from Second Life without any specific reason, but I will be back, and if not I will be getting a lawyer and filing claims against Linden Lab. for loss of over $7,000 USD in assets, as well as other legal claims.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/news/gameId/83/showArticle/7893
Second Life might be the next thing we see destroyed by people ripping everyone off, and maybe even the lawsuit’s out against them, the more people they have the more people that will win more than likely with those claims filed.
Although there is still a chance that I will get all my information back, and be back kicking Copybot scumbags off this grid myself as I have been doing the last years, I myself have nothign against a Copybot client, and wont do something to someone just for knowing or having, but I will do something against those who supporting the theft from merchants in Second Life, and those who are helping with such.
I myself know quite a few people involved with this stuff including one of the most reputable groups in Second Life, which I was about to contact them and give the owner every bit of information I had before my account got logged out by an admin. This could again be a LL Mistake, and the reason I am waiting for a response before taking any legal actions against LL.]
All I have to say here is that with ZFire gone, there is no one left to watch the grid really other than sandbox patrols now at least until I get my account, and friends back to send information to so we can start watching for theft (; again.
Zfire VS Copybotters <—- Content Thieves win, Should have taken my offer while you had the chance ZFire, and Skills you are next to have your system removed.
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia
Mar 3rd, 2011
RedZone has not been banned from SL. Soft is full of crap.
Jane
Mar 3rd, 2011
The next stepts the lab has to do is at first is to sue the manufacturer and thus also ensure that the database as to illegally obtained can not be further used. They have to seize his computer(s) and impose him a fine, which exceeds the with the zone acquired income!
Linden lab has to ban all his avatars and lock his accounts, otherwise he will be back soon and continue his malicious work beneath the control of the lab.
@Mysti Saunders
Thats one of the possibilities we must use and certainly not a bad one.
Yep
Mar 3rd, 2011
Soft Linden commented on VWR-24746:
———————————–
Thank you for the additional ARs about the vendor being replaced in-world while the consent request mechanism was still in place. We’ve removed the vendor again and made conditions for recirculation more explicit.
> RedZone Security violates TOS, exposes private information and is being misused
had enough
Mar 3rd, 2011
Damn the Lindens bitch slapped Redzone like the redheaded stepchild he is
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia
Mar 3rd, 2011
An excerpt from zFire’s forum, written by zFire himself, this is part of a larger post:
“I have disabled all RZ Alt viewing options, no need to ask. You can thank Patsey Linden.
It was Soft Linden’s idea for a consent system. Not a bad idea because it would work like a credit check.
If you have 10 alts, (Alt Metrics confirmed. No Dynamic IPs don’t link alts on this) then you consent to all 10 alts being visible.
If you want to select which are or are not visible by wishing to have a consent per avatar system, that is pointless, as people will “pass” an alt background check, while still opting to hide one bad alt. If you wanted to hide an alt, don’t consent! Simple.
But now even requesting consent is forbidden.
I asked if Linden Labs would inspect and approve of their new consent idea. No response.
So consent was implemented.
Now suddenly consent is forbidden. LL changed their mind on their own idea. Um, ok.
It is their house and their rules.
So the consent system is removed, as well as the display of alt names.
If you just wanted to snoop on peoples alts without consent, sorry. Talk to Linden Labs.
If you wanted to at least be able to ask contest players to consent to a security check for a contest board…
Yes that would increase each players odds by blocking the guy with the alt army.
Alas LL will not have it.”
So LL said “you can do it if you include consent” then they changed their mind, screwing over zFire and landowners who just want to stop people from shooting massive penises and goatses at their friends on their land. That’s what the GreenZoners wanted all along. Lets see if they are satisfied now or if they will keep pushing to get RedZone banned even though it doesn’t reveal alt information to RedZone users now.
Yep
Mar 3rd, 2011
“Lets see if they are satisfied now or if they will keep pushing to get RedZone banned even though it doesn’t reveal alt information to RedZone users now.”
.
Betray our trust once……
gabi
Mar 3rd, 2011
i love how all mention redzone like its a singular product
cds does the same thing whens it getting the boot?
it was out first and imo redzone was just a cds clone with more features
Nelson Jenkins
Mar 3rd, 2011
@ GothGirl
There are several problems with your comment. While I appreciate where you are coming from, and I certainly support your opinion on RedZone, allow me to systematically debunk your entirely farcical statement.
All of the following references are from the Terms of Service, section 11.3, unless otherwise noted.
“Linden Lab may suspend or terminate your Account if you violate this Agreement, along with any or all other Accounts held by you or otherwise related to you as determined by Linden Lab…”
Yadda, yadda, yadda. This means they can ban you. You no doubt see this as totally obvious, but idiots (much like yourself) have forced companies to include such simplistic assumptions in their terms of service/sale/whatever so some asshole can’t turn around and sue the living shit out of them.
“… you may not re-subscribe to Second Life, or return to Second Life through other or future Accounts you or others may set up.”
Ah, this would be called “ban evasion” in the Governance department. Rest assured that I myself have assisted in banning numerous people for ban evasion, and I am proud to have assisted in banning a single person on no less than 10 different accounts for the past several years. As such, I say this very bluntly: saying you will “return to Second Life” immediately nullifies any credibility you have, not to mention really kills your chances in court. However, let’s continue.
“In the event of termination by Linden Lab of your Accounts under this Section 11.3, you will be entitled to receive the stated current value of any credit balance held in your Account(s), i.e., amounts you have cashed out on the LindeX, as your exclusive remedy and our sole liability. This does not include any Linden dollar balance held in your Account(s).”
This means, in summary, ya dun goof’d. I have absolutely no idea what you mean by “$7,000 USD in assets”, so I will outline three possible scenarios and prove how you are unequivocally wrong in each one:
1.) You have US$7,000 in L$ (the most likely scenario). However, according to the ToS, you cannot withdraw Linden dollar balances if your account is banned. This is also outlined in section 11.6:
“All licenses granted by Linden Lab to use the Service, including without limitation any Linden Dollar Licenses and any Virtual Land Licenses will automatically terminate. You acknowledge that you have elected to procure Linden Dollar Licenses or Virtual Land Licenses or any premium account or paid features of the Services notwithstanding the possibility of termination of such license rights under the circumstances set forth in this Agreement.”
You may also note that this applies to virtual land as well, so if you happen to have US$7,000 invested in virtual land, well, sorry, you’re not getting it back either.
2.) You have US$7,000 in items you purchased that are in your inventory. While I have no idea how one would determine this, here is the relevant ToS section (11.6 once again):
“Upon termination of your Account, you will no longer be able to access your Account or access (or transfer or direct the transfer to any other Account) any Content or data you have stored on the Servers. [...] You should ensure that you have only stored Content on the Servers to which you are willing to permanently lose access. You acknowledge and assume the risk of the possibility of suspension or termination of your Account as provided herein, and you represent that you will make your decisions to participate in the Service, contribute Content, spend your money and dispose of transferable licenses at all times knowingly based upon these risks.”
In a nutshell, once again, you’re fucked, you can’t get it back (nor could you get the fair market value back).
3.) You have US$7,000 in US$ balance. While this is, quite frankly, a very stupid concept (why you would trust someone like LL with that amount of money is way beyond me), the ToS has something to say on the subject, back on 11.3:
“In the event of termination by Linden Lab of your Accounts under this Section 11.3, you will be entitled to receive the stated current value of any credit balance held in your Account(s), i.e., amounts you have cashed out on the LindeX, as your exclusive remedy and our sole liability.”
So yes, you can get your money back. Hooray! Rejoice! You can sue! Oh wait, let’s keep reading:
“In order to receive any sums pursuant to this Section 11.3, you must establish and inform us of a verified PayPal account into which we may transfer those sums. We will deduct from any or all of the above sums any outstanding fees or charges due to Linden Lab.”
Aw, shit! We were so close, weren’t we? Well, you can’t sue. But hey, you can get your money back!
Regardless of which scenario it is, I would love to see the evidence you plan on providing here. Courts are not stupid; they’re not just going to yell “Case closed!” and throw the gavel at Rod’s head because you whine and complain about having a bunch of spacebux in your account.
Are you beginning to see where I’m coming from? I’ve disproved your argument, what, 5 or 6 times now? Oh, but what’s this? The ToS is unenforceable? Let’s see…
“The Second Life Terms of Service’s mandatory arbitration provision was unenforceable and interaction with a person in a virtual world can satisfy a state’s “minimum contacts” requirement for personal jurisdiction.”
Okay, and? I don’t see your point here.
Let’s go back to the ToS for a quick second:
“This agreement (this “Agreement” or the “Terms of Service”) describes the terms on which Linden Research, Inc. and Linden Research United Kingdom, Ltd. (collectively “Linden Lab”) offer you access to Second Life. “Second Life” or the “Service” means the multi-user online service offered by Linden Lab, including its Websites, Servers, Linden Software, Linden In-World Content, and User Content (as those terms are defined in this Agreement). This offer is conditioned on your agreement to all of the terms and conditions contained in the Terms of Service, including the policies and terms linked to or otherwise referenced in this Agreement. By using Second Life, you agree to and accept these Terms of Service. If you do not so agree, you should decline this Agreement, in which case you are prohibited from accessing or using Second Life.”
So, let me get this straight, Judge Dredd. You mean to tell me that people are well within their right to access Second Life, a private service (we can legally call it “private property”), but if they send in a phone call to Mr. Justice System, they can be free and clear of all ToS obligations? Come on, I don’t buy that.
Oh, wait! You’ve fooled me again, silly GothGirl (nice name, by the way, really accentuates your professionalism in this matter).
Again, let me re-read the important section of the case’s resolution:
“The Second Life Terms of Service’s mandatory arbitration provision was unenforceable…”
AHA! Caught you! You tried to bullshit me, didn’t work so well. All this case did was prove that the “mandatory arbitration” provision was unenforceable. Let’s read the summary, since I know your eyelids are drooping at this point:
“If a dispute arises between you and Linden Lab regarding a claim for less than $10,000, either party may resolve it through Arbitration instead of Litigation.”
Hold on a second. “may”? Do you mean to tell me that Linden Lab changed the non-binding section so that it’s an OPTION, not a REQUIREMENT? Aw, shit. We’re really screwed here! When was this article? Couldn’t have been that lon- oh, wait, 2007. Nice.
Despite the fact that this article is massively outdated, it’s entirely false – here’s the first sentence:
“Reuters has reported on a court case where a Pennsylvania judge has ruled against Linden Labs that the Second Life’s Terms of Service are not legally binding.”
Okay, first of all, we can show that they didn’t say that the entire ToS was not legally binding, so this is a bit of a stretch. Second of all, THIS ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN IN 2007. Linden Lab changed their ToS to a fully-binding version a really, REALLY long-assed time ago. And if this doesn’t cut the mustard, have you been involved in the “mandatory arbitration process”? No? Then this has no relevance to your case. Let’s continue.
“This could again be a LL Mistake, and the reason I am waiting for a response before taking any legal actions against LL.”
Well, is it? We may never know. Have you bothered to check your email? You surely got one of those friendly little “ya dun goof’d!” emails that explain, explicitly, what you have done. Have you filed a support ticket? Did you try calling billing? (This does work, by the way.) No? Have fun in court.
“All I have to say here is that with ZFire gone…”
zF is not gone. You are just teeming with misinformation, aren’t you?
“… there is no one left to watch the grid really other than sandbox patrols now…”
Aw, damnit. I remember my days back in 2005 in Sandbox Security. We had a little base and everything.
But we didn’t “watch the grid”. In fact, the only thing we watched were planes flying out of Abbott into the row of sandboxes.
I do know of a close friend who actually developed a little roving drone that scans objects in sandboxes, then reports back to him if they’re copybotted versions of his car. Spiffy little device. (The fact that it plays “Smooth Criminal” as it does so is the icing on the cake.)
Nonetheless, boring stories aside, let’s continue.
“… at least until I get my account, and friends back to send information to so we can start watching for theft.”
Sure thing, honey. We all know you’re just the IP Police.
“Should have taken my offer while you had the chance ZFire”
Okay, you’re proved your point. You’re an idiot.
“Skills you are next to have your system removed.”
Right.
Yep
Mar 3rd, 2011
pokes Tiger in the side.
GothGirl
Mar 3rd, 2011
Back when I started Second Life in 2008, before I ever purchased any land, or anything in Second Life, I called LL, and asked them about the land, and purchase of the land.
When I made my purchase for my simulator I was a Teen Grid resident, Linden Lab actually sold a $1000 USD Estate to a minor without parental consent, ME, that is right I was 17 years old when I obtained my estate, and was told by Linden Lab on phone that the Estate was mine, no one could take it away, and I could do as I Pleased.
Back in 2008, It was made clear to everyone that we had rights to our creations and our content in Second life, Your World, Your Imagination, that is what it said when I joined Second Life, I read the original TOS, and I am sure that I do not remember word to word of the 2008 TOS, as they do not archive the TOS do they now?
But anyways I owned rights to my own content, and the L$ or Linden Dollar balance which I had and If I remember correctly in the past if an account was banned, or termianted any L$ on the account was sent to the account holder which now under their TOS it says that it is not, and that you have no rights over anything really anymore compared to 2008.
So basically I purchased an Entire Simulator for over $1000 USD, and made tier payments on it for 2, almost 3 years possibly I would have to check all the records I have. But anyways I got the estate, and then I get a notice that says I have to accept a new terms of service to even get access to my Estate, Linden Lab left me no option to access my estate, my creations for those 30 days that they said it didn’t take effect, decline and leave after backing up my own content, nor did they give access to what I had paid for.
Again I have rights to my creations that I made back in 2008 in Second Life, and my uploads, which were uploaded in 2008, and before their new Terms OF Service, but of course Linden Lab to avoid legal issues changed all this around after a resident had created stuff, and gave that resident no way to remove all data, or information they have created from the grid, as well as no way to take stuff they have paid for, and let alone the 2003 accounts and before that have been banned like Intlibber himself. I knew this person for awhile in Second Life because he was renting an estate to a group I knew.
Linden Lab has been the worst game I have ever seen with a lot of legal issues, including illegal things like gambling, people changing games around and calling it a game of skill which it really isn’t but to me is still gambling, as it is using Real World currency.
Again if this were world of warcraft with $16.95 a month payments I would not care, but it isn’t and this game involves real money from a company that tries to turn their TOS around and say that a person agrees to such when they have no choice but to accept to even get in world.
Lets say For example.
I have 800 K L$ on my account, and I am on vacation 3 months in Second Life, and I never get the new Terms OF Service or see it. Then I come back and accept the new Terms OF Service, which is already in effect, and 1 second later a Linden Bans me. Well guess what I accepted their new TOS just to get in SL get my builds, and leave, but now because of that I have no Access to all that L$ on my account, and LL has basically scammed me, and fraud me. (Example Only)
Zfire Xue is not banned from SL, his system is gone, and it will be gone just like Skills CDS will, many people have quit using their system anyways at least people I know. Zfire will be lucky if he does not get his account banned, I mean if it were me I would have honored what LL said anyways and removed the system completely from Second Life.
Yes I did also check my email for such, and it gave no specific reason, this is also the 3rd time LL has done this bullshi* to my account ( same account, no alts)
I have filed an appeal as usual as this is the third time this bullshi* has occured, and if my account is not enabled along with all data soon, or does not get a response I can say for sure that I take all legal actions and things I can find or do against Linden Lab, and their company. Not to mention that a Giant Meteor might hit their servers and turn them into a big Sink Hole in Second Life, because so many people are leaving, and no I am not talking about Hacking because I am not into that type of crap.
While you might think I am so dumb about everything Maybe I am in some ways, but again Who can enjoy SL the way it is right now anyways, we come in here to get away from Real Life drama, and bullshit, but then we have to get stuck with ZFire Xue, and Skills Hak have to start violating a users privacy, and such.
Sure I am aware IP addresses, and names are public I do not give a crap, it is the way these systems work, and who controls them that I don’t trust them. Sure I know how to get past them all now disabling media, and sl voice and such it can’t track, but fact is if your information is already logged into their system, or a new person doesn’t even know anything about it they can get scanned, defamed and all this other stuff without even knowing about such.
Such systems need to be restricted from Second Life and that is it really.
GothGirl
Mar 3rd, 2011
Oh yeah this would be something that would have to be setteled in a Court/Law if it does go this far, and honestly I dont think that many people with common sense are going to join SL anyways once they read the new TOS they are going to run away screaming, let alone once they hear about everything that is going on I will make sure of that.
I did just read the part of the TOS about land/currency again, but again a company like this without a signed contract, cant even prove a person accepted it in the first place, and again this is another thing that has to be taken care of in a court.
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia
Mar 3rd, 2011
Nelson, GothGirl: I think I missed something in your messages back and forth. Perhaps you could be more verbose next time.
Yep
Mar 3rd, 2011
Hindsight is 20/20 ,but reading through the TOS, why would anyone want to spend a single thin dime on a productoror land that you cannot keep?
Yep
Mar 3rd, 2011
eep, product or*
Nelson Jenkins
Mar 3rd, 2011
@ GothGirl
Back when I started Second Life in 2008, before I ever purchased any land, or anything in Second Life, I called LL, and asked them about the land, and purchase of the land.
When I made my purchase for my simulator I was a Teen Grid resident, Linden Lab actually sold a $1000 USD Estate to a minor without parental consent, ME, that is right I was 17 years old when I obtained my estate, and was told by Linden Lab on phone that the Estate was mine, no one could take it away, and I could do as I Pleased.
Back in 2008, It was made clear to everyone that we had rights to our creations and our content in Second life, Your World, Your Imagination, that is what it said when I joined Second Life, I read the original TOS, and I am sure that I do not remember word to word of the 2008 TOS, as they do not archive the TOS do they now?
Not a lot of it changed. You still retain IP rights to your creations. You have NEVER retained property rights in SL if your account is banned. That would be like paying for a Rapidshare account, uploading a bunch of pirated stuff, then demanding a refund when your account got banned.
But anyways I owned rights to my own content, and the L$ or Linden Dollar balance which I had and If I remember correctly in the past if an account was banned, or termianted any L$ on the account was sent to the account holder which now under their TOS it says that it is not, and that you have no rights over anything really anymore compared to 2008.
I believe that you lost any L$ you had back in the 2005 ToS. Why they would change this in 2008, then change it back, eludes me. However, none of this matters, because you had to have agreed to the new ToS upon logging in one day, and thus any previous forms of it are null and void.
So basically I purchased an Entire Simulator for over $1000 USD, and made tier payments on it for 2, almost 3 years possibly I would have to check all the records I have. But anyways I got the estate, and then I get a notice that says I have to accept a new terms of service to even get access to my Estate, Linden Lab left me no option to access my estate, my creations for those 30 days that they said it didn’t take effect, decline and leave after backing up my own content, nor did they give access to what I had paid for.
Two problems:
1.) In the previous ToS you agreed that you are willing to lose any purchases, etc. you make for SL products, including virtual land. This would be one of those incidents.
2.) You didn’t contact LL to see what could be done. Instead, you whined for a while then accepted the ToS to go on with life.
Again I have rights to my creations that I made back in 2008 in Second Life, and my uploads, which were uploaded in 2008, and before their new Terms OF Service, but of course Linden Lab to avoid legal issues changed all this around after a resident had created stuff, and gave that resident no way to remove all data, or information they have created from the grid, as well as no way to take stuff they have paid for, and let alone the 2003 accounts and before that have been banned like Intlibber himself. I knew this person for awhile in Second Life because he was renting an estate to a group I knew.
The fact that you’re bringing IntLibber into this really makes your credibility go down the drain (you know, ignoring the fact that it’s already in the ocean by now). Again, by agreeing to the old ToS (I am absolutely sure this was the case in 2005) you agreed that anything you had uploaded, etc. you are willing to lose.
Linden Lab has been the worst game I have ever seen with a lot of legal issues, including illegal things like gambling, people changing games around and calling it a game of skill which it really isn’t but to me is still gambling, as it is using Real World currency.
I beg to differ. I have read through the gambling regulations and there is no such thing as a “game of chance” by any stretch of the imagination in SL anymore. However, keep going on about things unrelated to your argument.
Again if this were world of warcraft with $16.95 a month payments I would not care, but it isn’t and this game involves real money from a company that tries to turn their TOS around and say that a person agrees to such when they have no choice but to accept to even get in world.
So, wait a second. I have never paid LL a single penny for the past 6 years. However, I would have to pay monthly payments to Blizzard if I started WoW (which I will never do). So if you PAY for something, it makes these problems insignificant? Or were you one of the “smart” ones that funnel your money into SL instead of turning a profit, like most productive, successful residents?
Lets say For example.
Oh please, do go on.
I have 800 K L$ on my account, and I am on vacation 3 months in Second Life, and I never get the new Terms OF Service or see it.
The fact that you have L$800,000 in your account is stupid. I know a very, very successful car manufacturer that NEVER keeps more than 200k in his account, and I myself cash out every 30k. That’s because I KNOW THE TERMS OF SERVICE SAYS IF SHIT HITS THE FAN, YOU CAN’T WITHDRAW YOUR LINDEN DOLLARS. YOU KNEW THIS.
Then I come back and accept the new Terms OF Service, which is already in effect, and 1 second later a Linden Bans me. Well guess what I accepted their new TOS just to get in SL get my builds, and leave, but now because of that I have no Access to all that L$ on my account, and LL has basically scammed me, and fraud me. (Example Only)
Oh, whew! I thought you were being serious that something like this could happen. My question here is, what does the “new ToS” have anything to do with it? Did they change something that got you banned?
SL is an extremely high-risk platform. I say again – DO NOT TRUST LINDEN LAB WITH YOUR MONEY. Withdraw it IMMEDIATELY whenever you reach, oh, L$30,000 or so. It says right in the ToS that you can lose it. They’re in-game credits. They’re NOT a form of valid, legal tender.
Zfire Xue is not banned from SL, his system is gone,
No, it’s not. His system still exists in full. The vendors for it are gone.
and it will be gone just like Skills CDS will, many people have quit using their system anyways at least people I know.
I fail to see, again, why CDS is getting involved here.
Zfire will be lucky if he does not get his account banned, I mean if it were me I would have honored what LL said anyways and removed the system completely from Second Life.
Okay, and? Yet again you make a mostly irrelevant statement that pretty much everyone already knows.
Yes I did also check my email for such, and it gave no specific reason, this is also the 3rd time LL has done this bullshi* to my account ( same account, no alts)
Two problems (again):
1.) You do not need to censor “bullshit”. This is not TV.
2.) Your claim is bullshit. (See what I did there?) Linden Lab does not actually send out emails for account bans without explicitly stating the Terms of Service section or Community Standard that you violated. If you disagree, please provide your account name and I will forward it to a Linden friend who should be able to get in contact with you much quicker than a support agent will.
I have filed an appeal as usual as this is the third time this bullshi* has occured, and if my account is not enabled along with all data soon, or does not get a response I can say for sure that I take all legal actions and things I can find or do against Linden Lab, and their company.
Contract law is a very strong area of the law. Please explain to me what your claim will be in court, because I am unable to figure it out from what you said (at least, from what little you said that makes sense).
Not to mention that a Giant Meteor might hit their servers and turn them into a big Sink Hole in Second Life, because so many people are leaving, and no I am not talking about Hacking because I am not into that type of crap.
Three possibilities:
1.) Of course you’re talking about hacking.
2.) A giant meteor will, in fact, collide with Linden Lab, destroying their servers. (I find this to be a very difficult concept to grasp.)
3.) You’re full of shit (most likely conclusion).
While you might think I am so dumb about everything Maybe I am in some ways, but again Who can enjoy SL the way it is right now anyways, we come in here to get away from Real Life drama, and bullshit, but then we have to get stuck with ZFire Xue, and Skills Hak have to start violating a users privacy, and such.
Let me rewrite your statement so that it makes sense to anyone with a high school diploma:
While you might think that I am so dumb about everything[,] maybe I am in some ways[;] but again[,] Who can enjoy SL the way it is right now[,] anyways? We come in here to get away from Real Life drama and bullshit, but then we have to get stuck with ZFire Xue, Skills Hak has to start violating users’ privacy, and such.
Yes, you are dumb. In fact, I’ll start doing this for all of your quotes.
Sure[,] I am aware IP addresses [ ] and names are public[,] but I do not give a crap[.] it is the way these systems work [ ] and who controls them[.] I don’t trust them. Sure[,] I know how to get past them all [by] disabling media [(]and it can’t track [SL] voice and such, but [the] fact is[,] if your information is already logged into their system[ ] or a new person doesn’t even know anything about it[,] they can get scanned, defamed and all this other stuff without even knowing about [it].
Such systems need to be restricted from Second Life[,] and that is it[,] really.
Cool story bro. We all feel the same way. Get off your high horse, nobody is going to bother suing zF or LL about this.
Oh yeah[,] this would be something that would have to be [settled] in a [court of law] if it does go this far, and honestly[,] I dont think that many people with common sense are going to join SL anyways[.] Once they read the new TOS[,] they are going to run away screaming, let alone once they hear about everything that is going on[;] I will make sure of that.
Holy shit, I’m so scared I pissed myself. I should sue the underwear company for not using quick-drying fabrics.
Your bland, unsubstantiated statements are really getting boring now.
I did just read the part of the TOS about land/currency again, but again a company like this[,] without a signed contract, [can't] even prove a person accepted it in the first place[.] Again[,] this is another thing that has to be taken care of in a court.
You have to accept the ToS to gain access to SL in the first place. You need to seriously calm down and go over the facts with a lawyer that didn’t graduate from just a community college. Hundreds if not thousands of cases have been argued like this, and guess what? More often than not, the guy on your side turns out to be the idiot. The concept of “well, I gained access to their system but they can’t prove I agreed to their Terms of Service” is complete bullshit, and you know it. In fact, you’ll probably get in trouble for doing so. Linden Lab provides the terms of your access to Second Life. If you don’t like them, shove off. Those of us that haven’t blindly invested thousands of dollars in a horribly-run computer game are glad to see you leave.
Yep
Mar 4th, 2011
“Holy shit, I’m so scared I pissed myself. I should sue the underwear company for not using quick-drying fabrics.”
LOL, TY Tiger,I almost choked on my coffee.
Observer
Mar 4th, 2011
Yea well before assuming a lawyer can help better go ask and make sure you didn’t blow any chances for a settlement long ago.
Nelson Jenkins
Mar 4th, 2011
@ Observer
She (assuming GothGirl is, in fact, a girl) never had a chance.
GothGirl
Mar 4th, 2011
Yep maybe I am full of shit, but hey at least I make a stand for what I think is right, and I believe LL did violate my rights as a resident in more way than one since 2008.
It doesn’t really matter either way you can sue anyone for anything almost, the only question is if you will win, or loose the lawsuit, and have the money put into it.
Maybe I am dumb, maybe I did not understand their TOS in 2008 when I start SL, but who cares, my point is that LL has adpt the TOS espicially when people started finding things to sue LL over they changed their TOS so that people couldn’t do such.
I agree if people create an account totally new to Second Life in 2009, or 2010, or when their new TOS was released then they are more than likely bound by it, but even in some cases in a court I have seen, not Linden Lab but other companies TOS not be legally binding in certain ways so certain parts of the TOS itself were thrown out by the court, and the person who filed actually won, I think it was over a game by NC Soft though, although when you are talking about Second Life, you are talking about a lot more money and time involved into this game.
I started SL back in 2008, and again LL made the claims that I owned the land, and the rights over the items I created. In 2009 I believe it was is when they really upgraded their TOS to be a lot more on telling people how they have lost their rights to their creations, and that L$ has no value, and all this. None of us had any choice but to hit an I Accept button to gain access to our Land, or our items, We were also not even given any warning about such.
Am I wrong, or every time LL creates a new TOS, you can’t login to Second Life at all until you click an I agree button?
GothGirl
Mar 4th, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMzj-fRGvM LL Bans Innocent Person.
There is still a chance I might get my account back again, or something, again it is possibly a mistake of Linden Lab removing the account anyways, or a bunch of Copybots, or Copybot supporters who mass abuse reported, and got their friends to assist them. I had, and have a lot of enemies on the grid, and by enemy I do not just mean dislike a person.
By enemy I mean a lot of content theft people who got banned because we abuse reported their griefing, and Theft more than once in SL, not only that, but Many groups I was in support the Copybot, and illegal activities in SL, out of all my groups there was only one group I covered up illegal activities for at one point in 2009 when I knew absolutely nothing about it, and I actually talked to a few people about this in SL, although the person who did the actual theft and did this to many people lost their account, others who knew about it and look at evil but do nothing about it in SL actually recently assisted a Conten thief who got banned to grief under my name.
Either way it seems like Linden Lab is loosing control of this game, I honestly do not think it will be that long until that metor comes and destroys SL forever . I mean from the time I have been in SL all I have seen is a bunch fo Trolls, and griefers come into the grid constant griefing in sandboxes, Theft from many merchants, Red Zone & CDS, and LL allowing suchs for a long time, Defaming avatars, and disclosure without any type of actual evidence, and it has only got worse.
I do not know of any really good creators who would want to even come into Second Life and grief it anymore
Nelson Jenkins
Mar 4th, 2011
@ GothGirl
It doesn’t really matter either way[;] you can sue anyone for [almost] anything [], the only question is if you will win [] or [lose] the lawsuit, and have the money put into it.
So essentially you’re saying the following:
I don’t give a shit if I win or lose, I just want to stick it to the man and waste my money on court costs.
Smart.
The Privacy wars real victims « ladysakai
Mar 6th, 2011
[...] the Alphaville Herald [...]
JustMe
Mar 13th, 2011
and … all of this actually means something only if you have something to hide.
The Sun King
Mar 21st, 2011
@Gothgirl
Give it up, liek srsly your arguments are like an elephants farts, smelling bad but insubstantial.
Isnt this how it really was?
You were caught on two ban systems for being in posession of nefarious viewers, you were subsequently banned by those on sims where the devices rested and, when Linden lab investigated your accounts, they probably concurred with the evidence and banned you. I would guess that is the real story but you are like a kid that has been caught with gingerbread all round their mouth and yet insists they didnt eat the gingerbread please do us a favour and do your whining in private to LL I am totally sick of reading your asswipe all over every blog I visit. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO PRESS THE STFU BUTTON ON YOURSELF