zFire Xue Interview: RedZone is not Spyware

by Pixeleen Mistral on 04/03/11 at 3:26 am

RedZone protects users from 77283 people they have banned plus their alts

The zF RedZone security scanner scandal continues to churn, creating what seems to be a nearly unstoppable epic thread in the SL Universe forums which has grown to over 320 pages (8100 posts) as of this writing. At the heart of the controversy is zFire Xue – the creator of RedZone.

Mr. Xue was gracious enough to consent to an e-mail interview with the Herald. In the interview zFire Xue discussed the variability of Linden Lab’s ToS conditions, his dealings with Patsey and Soft Linden, and his plans for the future.

rz 1
zFire Xue’s Second Life storefront

Pixeleen Mistral: I understand that Linden Lab has removed your zf RedZone from in-world and also removed this product from the Marketplace. Will you be able to meet Linden Lab’s conditions for reinstating this product?
zFire Xue: Yes Patsey Linden has removed the zF RedZone from the Market 2 times, and from inworld 1 or 2 times. zF RedZone has been removed from the Marketplace a total of 4 times, recently one of those was even by myself. It is back in world, and I am debating on posting to the market, as an issue of paying Linden Labs any fees related to zF RedZone for their assistance.

I have always met Linden Lab’s conditions for keeping zF RedZone llLegal(‘If I may add a joke here’);

Pixeleen Mistral: Has Linden Lab changed the conditions under which you are able to sell the RedZone product? How long have you been negotiating with the Lab on this issue?
zFire Xue: Yes Linden Labs has changed a few conditions. Soft Linden has been in contact with me since 2-9-11. We have spoken about the political issues of zF RedZone and how people interpret policy. Soft Linden came up with the idea of a Consent based system. Of course I was not keen on the idea of limiting information in this way, but a type of "background check" system could still work, just not so well for helping stop contest cheaters in clubs.

Eventually it was "Oh, hey, we removed X, Y, and zF RedZone from the marketplace, you may relist it but you have to add a consent system for displaying alt names, and include an Opt-Out system by Friday." (paraphrased) and "we will be ******** the Second Life Community Standards to prohibit disclosure of Residents’ alternate account names without their consent." (I added a few **** and the word "to" so it protects the grammer of the unnamed Linden and isn’t "disclosing a conversation log". )

So I did that, which upset thousands of people. Not my idea at all.

Then some days later Patsy Linden said displaying alt names at all was forbidden, even with consent.
So all alt name display functions where removed.

Then zF RedZone was delisted by the Lindens because of the Consent system the lindens thought of.

Now using a Consent system is forbidden.

I went off on them for that. It was their idea in the first place, I even asked them to look it over, and further explain the finer points of their requirements. No response. Days later Consent is forbidden.
So I just removed all that, and let everyone know I never offered Alt name displays even if that is one of the functions I included, and enjoyed. I posted a notice here: http://isellsl.ath.cx/madsci/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=561

Explaining just as before http://isellsl.ath.cx/madsci/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=490 That zF RedZone changed yet again to adapt to the ever changing SecondLife™ Terms of Service, but all functions continue to operate as normal, but without displaying alt names. In short it still bans alts of people you do not want, does everything the advertisement says, and a bit more.


Pixeleen Mistral: If you and Linden Lab cannot come to an agreement soon, so you plan to move to an outside-of-SL approach for RedZone using paypal and user-installable scripts?
zFire Xue: I had publicly said that I could move RedZone outside of Second Life if Linden Labs wishes it to leave Second Life. To go to a stand alone website, Open-Space, and others, to a paypal paid membership system that hosts no objects in any world. The problem with that is then it becomes nothing but an alt display gadget, and my existing users would not be safe from 77283 people they have banned plus their alts. (Those are private individual bans not grid bans by the way. ) Many of my own users have asked me to go off world with it, etc. Linden Labs knows that if alts cannot be displayed even with consent by RedZone, many many others will take it’s place and do so.

Thanks to the hospitality of the Lindens I am willing to sit back and let that happen. So Linden Labs can hear from thousands of other complaints, but about someone else for a change. This is me allowing a bigger fire to burn elsewhere so the angry mob can go deal with that and I can get back to my own updates in security.

Pixeleen Mistral: Do you have any concerns about the RedZone database being compromised with suspect data if you moved to a user-installable script business model?
zFire Xue: Yes there is an issue with a user installable script business model, which would prevent entirely full perm scripts from being available. They would have to be no mod to protect the methods that ensure the data packet is in sync with valid data sent from the unit itself. It is possible to transmit no mod scripts, or even objects for that matter, but for now that isn’t necessary.


Pixeleen Mistral: Is there anything you would like to tell the Herald readers?
zFire Xue: I would like to thank all of your readers, I would like to invite them to read and understand what zF RedZone is and is not.

As most people know Linden Labs is very slow to deal with Abuse Reports or DMCAs for the few they deal with at all.

The only viewer Linden Labs has blocked is Emerald, which still logs in to SL in some cases.
If you have a griefer or copybot threat zF RedZone is more effective at catching and banning copybot viewers, griefers, stalkers, and the alts they use than Linden Labs itself. Without it, try banning someone, and they will be back with an alternate account.

The bad guys do have new copybot viewers every so often, or other methods to steal, but zF RedZone catches these viewers in time, and the alts of these people, unlike Linden Labs which only sometimes bans or suspends individual accounts, but never stopped a single copybot viewer from logging into the grid.

zF RedZone is not spyware, it does not install anything or record anything that is not public information.
It does use intelligence to calculate things for security purposes. There are no script functions for keylogging or voice media controls as the other side of the debate will have you believe.
Please visit http://isellsl.ath.cx/rzfaq.php for answers to more questions.

Best Regards,
zFire Xue =)

84 Responses to “zFire Xue Interview: RedZone is not Spyware”

  1. Nelson Jenkins

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Hey Pixeleen, can you do an interview? Actually, no, I’ll do it myself.

    Pixeleen Mistral: Is there anything you would like to tell zFire Xue?

  2. zFire Xue

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Nelson, Very cleaver.
    I invite you to test the system however you wish, to realize it works.
    It is not a stalking tool, it actually fights stalking.
    For example if you stalk someone, they ban you and your alts are also banned. The reason it works is why it is so well known. If you could get around it, do so, and stop posting hate. Enjoy your SL

  3. General Drama

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Screaming like that isn’t going to convince people, Nelson. Also: not a stalking tool, it’s a security tool. Also, not illegal – show me where it’s illegal, line and verse, and I’ll go for it. Otherwise, STFU.

  4. Orion

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Simple solution. Why can’t LL just add a little checkbox that reads “Hardware ban.” to the ban dialog? They already keep track of ip / mac / hd0 id for gridwide bans. Just extend that functionality to the estate tools so its available to sim admins and land owners on a region by region basis.

    Problem solved. The user’s info / alts aren’t tracked by an untrusted third party, and everyone’s happy. Except for those nosy mutherfucking asswads who think its their right to randomly rummage through your personal information!

  5. GothGirl

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Thanks Herald you made me famous (;

    Thats my post there (; EPIC THREAD IS MINE!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMzj-fRGvM LL Bans Innocent person actual proof.

    I gave Zfire xue the Benifit of the doubt that he would not abuse the system against me, or anyone else on the grid, I ignored what other people said at first about his system and manual bans he added.

    Once I found my name manually added as a THIEF, on his list I knew that he was abusing the system, on top of that he still has a big database of users, and none of us want this system to even be in Second Life anymore, Nor do we want CDS there.

    CDS, and Red Zone are violation of users privacy, if you want to scan a person, you must ask legal consent in a blue box before sending false media files, or movies through the media to obtain a persons.

    IP Address, Operating System, and SL Viewer Etc.

    Even then your systems make mistakes against people often accusing people of being a copybot, A person i knew in Second Life Aeon who is always around helping people in the sandboxes got accused of content theft, he did nothing, and I would be shocked if he did.

    I did nothing either besdies admit to Zfire that I had tested cryo life, and use a copybot viewer, or gl intercept to check the copyright on a box full of skins I was given a few times, and when I found they were stolen I reported this bullshit to the creators of the skins.

    LL needs to do something to prevent Theft from our grid I totally agree, and wish they would, but they dont.

  6. GothGirl

    Mar 4th, 2011

    @Orion, IP addresses, and MAC/ID0 Addresses are able to be spoofed easily, How would you like it if I obtained your MAC/HArdware ID and spoofed them into a copybot logged into SL, and got your computer information banned from everywhere.

    Maybe that is a bit hard to do to most people, but all you need is a person to run a program on their computer possibly a game or something, and log that information.

    Even if LL banned me I can still go in SL as many times as I want they can’t ban me I can change my IP Change my mac go right back each and every single time, But my point is I like to do things legally, and I want my accoun information and original account, not some n00b avatar.

    Yes I am aware some people who own slaves, BDSM, and roleplay have problems with alts, but even some of those BDSM slave sites have asshole managers no offense to anyone I have seen that though.

    If you have a problem with someone there is a ban list for a reason, Ban them, if you are caused harassment or harm by an alt, Help and abuse report it, but be sure, and if your not sure say you are not sure when you file, and you can always ban their alts too.

    If you have a full ban list buy a Sim wide scanner that will TP home people, it doesn’t even have to be connected to a network that shares bans.

  7. GothGirl

    Mar 4th, 2011

    And sorry about the bit of spam here, but I forgot to say that I Consider Red Zone, and CDS.

    Spyware/Malaware. Because

    I am not given the option to Opt-Out if my media is left on, or even set to auto play my information is scanned, and logged by the system without my consent.

    Now zfire is right, IP Addreses, and User Names are not private, but disclosure of these is against the SL Community Standards, not only that but defaming a person, or group is as well. Now I have broken those a lot when it comes to exposing Copybots, or groups, but I could care less about those unless they beg for mercy for stealing my entire avatars off my back.

    The difference though is that by going to http://www.google.com, or MSN, I know my IP is going to be logged, but again this is done by a professional company, which also has a privacy policy, unlike CDS & Red Zone, which violate my rights as a resident in SL, and not only did they violate my rights, but acts as spyware, or malaware as I do not type their web address in there, or even know it is going to scan me, yet I do not even know where these are placed in SL to stay away.

    We need an anti virus, and that is why Green Zone was made. lol.

  8. Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia

    Mar 4th, 2011

    @Orion: I agree, that would be a perfect solution if they also expanded the ban list. The list is only 100 entries long, when it fills up people drop off the end of it. RedZone gives me an unlimited ban list. LL’s bans also only go up a few hundred meters. A big part of my sandbox is at 1500m, so I can’t ban there without a 3rd party tool. RedZone covers my entire sim up to 4000m. Even if they fixed all that I would still use RedZone for statistics on my sim.

    LL is too incompetent to develop those kinds of tools. That’s why we need people like zFire.

    @GothGirl: You got busted using Cryolife because you are stupid. Stop whining like a baby.

  9. GothGirl

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Right I tested cryo Life in like March of 2010, and I got banned in 2011 for it. Bullshit.

  10. Yep

    Mar 4th, 2011

    LOL!!!! Go getem Tiger :P

  11. Yep

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Sure thing, visit redzone’s site and pick up even more spyware.

  12. GothGirl

    Mar 4th, 2011

    At least if I go to zfires site I am giving consent for IP logging because I knowingly and have to type in the site on my computer to go to it. In Second Life I do not have to do anything nor do I type anything in or give consent.

  13. James Freud

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Install GreenZone and turn off all media/voice. QED bitches

  14. GothGirl

    Mar 4th, 2011


    So if my claims are 100% false

    is this false too?


  15. Yep

    Mar 4th, 2011


    That is so wrong!

  16. Dave Bell

    Mar 4th, 2011

    I think zFire Xue might be his own worst enemy. RedZone, and much of the other stuff he had in the markplace, was presented with a a range of features that looked close to griefer tools. If this was a professional tool, you wouldn’t need the gleeful special effects.

    That alone is enough to diminish his reputation. Add the way he hides behind an SL name, and I get very uneasy. One of the principles of data protection is that there is a clear line of responsibility. I know I can, by various means, work back through domain names and IP addresses and ISPs and eventually get a real-world contact point. And, for all I know, that contact point might be his mother, as the person who pays the ISP bill.

    If Linden Lab get careless about something important enough to warrant a lawyer’s letter, they have a name and address: they don’t hide. In my own experience, displaying that basic information is part of being a lawfully-run business.

  17. Observer

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Giving this shit bag attention destroys any shred of credibility the herald had left.

    Even LL will be implementing the media filter to eradicate this scumbag’s system.

    Hey zFire how does it feel to be like Hitler in his bunker as the commies close in? Will you too follow his example?

  18. justagirl

    Mar 4th, 2011

    @ Gothgirl You could have put some kind of warning on that link. The bit I saw before i managed to turn it off has done some serious damage to me.

    And btw I am not happy that zfire still has what he considers to be alts of mine in some database somewhere even he is now not allowed to disclose it inworld.

  19. Qie Niangao

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Nelson Jenkins has a point: All the in-depth investigative journalism of a press release cut-and-paste.

    After so many demonstrated flat-out lies, if the subject said 2 x 2 = 4, the Herald would be well advised to check the multiplication table for malware.

  20. Eva Ryan

    Mar 4th, 2011

    There are several reasons why people are taking issue to RedZone.

    * Linden Lab is the owner of SecondLife. They own the servers, the service, and the programming. It is the responsibility of LL to provide the security necessary to function in the virtual world.

    * zFire Xue has seen fit to spread fear, doubt, and uncertainty (FUD) in promoting his product among merchants. This can be seen even in his advertisements for RedZone (not to mention the typos… what’s a “Web Control Pannel” anyway). We, the residents that have sided against RedZone, have picked this apart, piece by piece to show the flaws in the system. This is just a pure marketing ploy.

    *zFire Xue and those minions that follow him blindly have taken it upon themselves to be the keepers of the security of merchants in SL. The fundamental flaw in this thinking is that no third party has the right to take up that position in SL. It would be like the Government outsourced their security of their computer systems to India. Bad move.

    *RedZone relies on security holes present in Secondlife for it to function. The media exploit is well know among those of us that have been around for some time. It’s been documented time and time again in the JIRA. RedZone then obtains the IP addresses of avatars, enters it in an offworld database, and correlates them to reveal alternate accounts. This is UNACCEPTABLE.

    * zFire Xue said himself that he doesn’t vet his customers from obtaining his product, leaving wide open the possibility of abuse of the system. Stalkers, nosy busy-bodies, or anyone with $3,999L can feel powerful and omniscient.

    *The reason that many RedZone users are up in rage is because their god toy is now gone and they are forced to deal with issues on their home front just like the rest of us peasants in SL by the use of Ban and Mute and actually making observations.

    *Finally, if anyone has actually gone to the iSellSL.com site, it’s just brimming with links on the page that lead to malware. It’s a virtual ghetto and highly unprofessional. This should give insight to the character of the website owner.

  21. hobo kelly

    Mar 4th, 2011

    all the hobos are deleting anything made by zFire as it may be malware and have back doors in it they say

  22. Scylla Rhiadra

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Is this an “interview” or an advertisement?

    Eva has made many of the points I’d want to make above, especially her suggestion that this has been marketed on fear and through a conscious misrepresentation of its efficacy against “griefers” and “copybots.”

    What I’d like to add, however, is the point that the function of RedZone is predicated upon deception. Over and over again in the RedZone forums I tried to make the point that ANY system that harvests personal information by stealth and without informed consent is objectionable. And over and over again, RedZone supporters obfuscated and sidestepped the issue.

    Any resident of moderate intelligence asked directly whether he or she would consent to a scan that loaded information about his or her avatar, including SL name, IP address, UUID, and status of payment information, to a third-party web site outside of the jurisdiction of Linden Lab’s ToS, where it is stored and collated against the IP addresses of other residents in order to determine whether he or she is an “undesireable,” is going to say NO.

    RedZone users KNOW this; they know that informed consent will destroy the system because most reasonable people don’t want to be harvested, labelled, stamped, and stored in a database that could be used for god-only-knows what purpose by god-only-knows whom. The system can only function by stealth and deceit.

    You want to scan people on your sim? Fine; maybe that’s even your right. But it’s MY right to say no. Let me KNOW in advance, and I’ll avoid your business or club entirely. Procure my consent first, and if I say “No” (which I most assuredly will) then eject me: I’m fine with that. I don’t WANT to patronise a business or a club that requires ID checks on its customers. This way we’re both happy: I don’t get scanned, and your sim is “protected” from me and my nefarious ways.

    RedZone needs to stop hiding: it needs to be up-front about exactly what it does. If it wants to be accepted as a legitimate security device, it needs to put away the subterfuge, and stop acting like “spyware.”

  23. Sling Trebuchet

    Mar 4th, 2011

    “zFire Xue: Yes there is an issue with a user installable script business model, which would prevent entirely full perm scripts from being available.”
    Yeah – full-perm scripts that fed stuff to the RZ database might not be a great ‘business model’.

    “They would have to be no mod to protect the methods that ensure the data packet is in sync with valid data sent from the unit itself. It is possible to transmit no mod scripts, or even objects for that matter, but for now that isn’t necessary.”
    NoMod scripts in the Asset Servers? Can you say “Zap”?

    “Then some days later Patsy Linden said displaying alt names at all was forbidden, even with consent.”
    Eh… more like… GIven that there is absolutely no guarantee that all the purported alts in the list are actually the same person, then no one of them can possibly give consent for the entire list to be displayed. Get consent from each name. Then you’d have consent. Not otherwise.

    “So I just removed all that, and let everyone know I never offered Alt name displays even if that is one of the functions I included, and enjoyed.”
    I’ll bet the people who bought it and used the roaming hud to wander the grid and nose into the possible alts of people around them enjoyed that too.
    Whose sim were they ‘protecting’?

    RZ is the most despicable POS to grief the SL community ever!

  24. Gundel Gaukelei

    Mar 4th, 2011

    We should handle this the anonymous way …

  25. Darien Caldwell

    Mar 4th, 2011

    “my existing users would not be safe from 77283 people they have banned plus their alts.”

    change that to ‘wrongly banned’, and you get closer to the truth. This thing can NOT reliably detect copybots, it can NOT detect alts reliably, it really is nothing more than a glorified griefing tool.

  26. Retired Griefer

    Mar 4th, 2011

    So how well does this product work against someone with a spreedsheet full of 500+ Alt accounts, reaching as far back as rez date 2005?

  27. Ciaran Laval

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Oh please, people have been using Redzone to see if they can figure out if a girl is really a girl, which Redzone won’t tell them but that’s a use case, it has been used to check out alts, that’s what got it into trouble, that was a selling point.

    As Scylla says, if the device had any ethics it would seek consent before harvesting data, that it doesn’t do that speaks volumes and the way that ZFire has tried to worm around that issue speaks volumes too. Seeking consent and informing people of its purpose would also act as a deterrent, but security doesn’t actually seem to be of primary concern to ZFire.

    Now we have TPV’s developing patches, because of Redzone and content creators who found the remote admin and extra long banlist of Redzone useful, being left up a certain creek without a paddle because of pandering to people who just want to know who is the alt of whom. ZFire played to the wrong crowd, he is his own worst enemy.

  28. Jupiter

    Mar 4th, 2011

    What a piece of crap article. Griefer tools such as RedZone, and their users, need to be BANNED from Second Life. These guys are the pond scum of SL and need to be extricated forthwith.

  29. General Drama

    Mar 4th, 2011

    O please, “patches” are all based on zFire advertising the presence of his system by naming his probes something easy to detect. Plus, what’s the point of a security product that says to Idiot Raiderboy, “Hi, can I ban you plz? No? Okay, COME ON IN THEN.”

    Grow up, stop whining. Nobody wants to shell out to Linden Lab as an insult and then add the injury of not being able to control their own land.

  30. Nelson Jenkins

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Holy shit, time for a huge post.

    @ zFire Xue

    You are breaking California law, federal law, and international law. I mean, it’s that simple. You are scamming people into believing your product is explicitly for copybot detection (which we’ve proven it doesn’t work hundreds if not thousands of times) while secretly marketing it for “find other people’s alts!” for months. Except now that that’s broken, you’re going to jump ship and take it out of SL so the Lindens can’t block you. Yep, you’re pretty trustworthy to me!

    @ General Drama

    Try googling “redzone legality second life”. It’s against the ToS and section 22575-22579 of the California Business and Professions Code, along with a bunch of UK privacy laws and some US federal laws (since it’s technically interstate commerce).

    Also, no, the TPV patches are based on showing people the URL they are being forced to connect to. Even if zFire changes his URL to something more believable (isellsl.com is a REALLY conspicuous URL, especially when you look at the website itself and realize most Russian warez sites are better-designed) people will still be able to block it.

    @ Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia

    Use estate tools. 500 maximum, I believe. If you do not own the entire sim, then it would be stupid to ban people from parcels you do not own. In addition, if you DO own the entire sim but DO NOT have estate tools, you’re an idiot.

    @ GothGirl

    Your video is totally unrelated to this issue. Nonetheless, that behavior is prevented in the US by the Federal Animal Welfare Act. Look it up before using such sensational, horrific visual images along the lines of PETA and ALF.

  31. General Drama

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Holy shit, Nelson, eLaywer much? It prohibits PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE information being collected without knowledge or consent. IP addresses aren’t, and game account names aren’t.

    So where’s the crime? Either in California, US or EU? You can’t just scream “YOU’RE A CRIMINAL” over and over like that. You’re embarrassing us.

    So what’s the real reason then, Nelson? You got some pedo alts you don’t want anybody finding out about?

  32. Observer

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Dear General Drama: You are an idiot. The TOS forbids what redzone does and the TOS has always forbidden it.

    Here is your clue:

    If you choose to visit a web site and that web site logs your IP address then you opted in and gave consent. And all they log is your IP address.

    Redzone is not a web site. Redzone is not owned and operated by Linden Lab. Nobody opted in or gave consent to have their data, much more than IP address, harvested or collected by someone they never heard of or met or even is aware they are being stealth scanned with a media url that utilizes an exploit Linden Lab has steadfastly refused to close despite having been told about it over 2 years ago.

    Redzone, and each and every system that performs the same media exploit, has been, is, and will continue to be in violation of the TOS Section 8.3(i). This information has been stated over and over and over by many people.

    Just because LL has failed to properly enforce their TOS does not give implied sanction to violate the contract LL made with their users by way of the TOS agreement action.

    So go play internet expert in your basement kid. Nobody gives a shit what you think. You think wrongly.

  33. Livia Trill

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Your notion as to how the patches for viewers (to protect against this kind of “lark”) work, is simply wrong; Sione is smarter than you.

    With respect to California law, you are wrong again. The relevant law is the California Online Privacy Protection Act, which you can google yourself to see the full text (no need to take my word for it).

    That law not only sets certain standards of notification in respect of the gathering of “personal idenitifying information”, it also gives a definition as to what is construed as “personal identifying information” for the purposes of the Act.

    The definition explicitly includes any information that can be used to contact someone online.

    It may have escaped your attention, but our Secondlife user names can be used to contact us online.

    Secondlife user names are most definately and inarguably “personal identifying information” for the purposes of the California Online Privacy Protection Act.

    This is the case no matter if we own our Secondlife user names or not. This is the case whether or not our Secondlife user names are public. If you do not like it, take your argument up with Californian legislators.

    You do not need to be any kind of lawyer to ascertain this; you merely need to be literate and able to employ the power of google-fu.

    The Act, evidently, shields the owner of a server that hosts a website or online service that is being operated by someone else, while placing onus for compliance on the operator.

    It is entirely plausible that a court would interpret LL as the hosting owner and sim/land owners in Secondlife as the operators, and this could have legal implicaitons for Secondlife users who rezz RZ units on their land in Secondlife.

    Being a lawyer would certainly be helpful to arriving at a strongly reasoned, “legal guess” as to the level of risk entailed in rezzing an RZ unit on your sim or Secondlife land, so you should seriously consider seeking legal advice if any consumer from California can access any sim or land in Secondlife, that you operate and have chosen to rezz a RedZone unit on.

  34. had enough

    Mar 4th, 2011

    The bottem line pencil dick is no one wants skill haks ripped cds script snooping on them. So take your rightious fag talk and shove it up your ass. Redzone is gone.

  35. Yep

    Mar 4th, 2011

    General Drama’s dad has a pedo alt.

  36. Henry Darkthief

    Mar 4th, 2011

    I don’t post much anymore, RL is jsut too busy, but this is one subject on which I do want to make a point. RedZone, CDS or any of the other so-called “security” “anti-griefer” “anti-copybot” are simply not accurate. Any system that uses IP address tracking cannot be accurate. All those public libraries, hotspots, community centres, internet cafes with their free wireless internet ensures that. How many people have been labelled as being an alt of a thief because they logged into a free hotspot a week after a real thief used it? How many legitimate Residents have been added to RedZone’s griefer list as a result?

    One more point. Someone posted a screen capture from the RedZone site in the SL flogs before the recent change over. It clearly showed that of all the people banned, approximately .025% were copybot/griefers. That comes to something like 193 people of the 77,000+ listed.

    Imagine if WalMart banned tens of thousands of people from shopping there because a couple of hundred shoplifters where caught.

  37. General Drama

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Bottom line, pencil dick, is that you’re just hiding your junk and you don’t wanna get exposed with your dick in some furries ass:


    U.S. Court rules that IP addresses are NOT private information.

    Go blow a goat.

  38. had enough

    Mar 4th, 2011

    Aww go ahead and keep flapping your gums to deaf ears over a dead issue and dead product. BTW I am laughing about the 3999L you lost. Need a tissue?

  39. Obvious Schism

    Mar 4th, 2011

    It is written in a certain Encyclopaedia that RedZone apologists can be categorised thus:

    1. The duped
    2. The blithely ignorant
    3. The wilfully ignorant
    4. The fanboy
    5. The disingenuous
    6. The selfish
    7. The hypocritical
    8. The malicious & deceitful
    9. The greedy
    10. The creepy
    11. The psychopathic

    And let it also be noted that these categories are by no means exhaustive nor mutually exclusive.

  40. GothGirl

    Mar 4th, 2011

    @Nelson, This is why I am a Vegetarian RL, because this is just wrong killing animals, and eating, what is the difference between being a cannibal, but that is just me, and nope that is not my video, that is an educational video posted on the net by people against animal abuse, but again people who buy products from these guys support it, which is why I buy Soy.

    Anyways RZ is a violation of our privacy in SL always will be. Also I doubt the Herald is giving ZF any type of credit, the Herald is always open minded and why I am here and read it.

    Again Linden Lab does make a lot of mistakes, and this is not a shocker video either.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMzj-fRGvM LL bans an Innocent person.

  41. Wondering

    Mar 4th, 2011

    @zFire – So I just removed all that, and let everyone know I never offered Alt name displays even if that is one of the functions I included, and enjoyed.

    Ok zFire, here you undercut your entire arguement. You state “let everyone know I never offered Alt name displays” then state “that is one of the functions I included” This is known as a lie.

    So we are to beleive that you are conducting business legally and legimately when you state conclusively that you tell people what they want to hear.

    Forshame on you aplhaville herald. This is not an interview. You are just a propaganda tool for Redzone.

  42. justagirl

    Mar 5th, 2011

    Is not clicking anymore links by GothGirl

  43. CSL

    Mar 5th, 2011


    “The only viewer Linden Labs has blocked is Emerald, which still logs in to SL in some cases.”

    This is false, Linden Lab has restricted access to SL on over 20 known Copybot or Griefing Viewers since the TPV became public information. Not going to get into a game with someone who has the reputation of bending the truth to try and justify his datamining (zFire Xue) but I’ll toss a single name out for you..

    Neillife. Was the first modern generation copybot viewer which was restricted from logging in in it’s default configurations. As with all technology, it is possible to spoof around the block but that doesn’t not mean it wasn’t blocked LONG before the entire Emerald fiasco…



  44. Kaira Aeon

    Mar 5th, 2011

    @ General

    You are incorrect. What the court found, in the case of Johnson v. Microsoft Corp., No. 06-900, 2008, was that the plaintiffs had no standing with which to sue Microsoft over the EULA agreement for Windows XP. Since all that legal terminology, from the link you gave, seems to have confused you, here are a couple of links that might make things easier for you to understand.



    As you can no doubt see, it was all about a perceived violation of Microsoft’s EULA and IP addresses really had very little to do with it at all. The only way this might possibly have any bearing in a legal situation pertaining to Redzone would be between anyone who bought the system and it’s creator, zFire Xue.

  45. Nelson Jenkins

    Mar 5th, 2011

    @ zFire Xue

    I decided to do a breakdown of your post (despite it being rather outdated at this point) for humorous effect.

    Nelson, Very cleaver.

    Why thank you! However, I have a question. What kind of cleaver am I? Meat? Vegetable? Moron?

    I invite you to test the system however you wish, to realize it works.

    If by “works” you mean “you can ban people”, that’s great. However, I would love being able to test the system – that is, assuming you don’t force me to pay, otherwise it would be purchasing it, not testing it, which is definitely something I would not enjoy doing.

    It is not a stalking tool, it actually fights stalking.

    That’s funny, I thought looking someone’s alts up was pretty suspicious behavior. Sure, it might not qualify as stalking under the penal code, but I sure wouldn’t want people to do that.

    For example if you stalk someone, they ban you and your alts are also banned.

    Or, rather, you come on an alt that wasn’t datamined by your laggy sensors and continue your lulz generation.

    The reason it works is why it is so well known.

    That’s a silly argument. In fact, the reason it DOESN’T work is BECAUSE it is so well known. If RedZone wasn’t in the limelight, nobody would have proliferated the immensely simple workarounds. In fact, major TPVs wouldn’t have implemented patches that virtually nullify your IP datamining. (When you’re aiming to “protect those that use legitimate viewers” but end up pissing off the creators of said viewers, you’re doing it wrong.)

    If you could get around it, do so, and stop posting hate.

    A little thing called the First Amendment lets me post whatever I wish on the internet, sorry – as long as it’s not defamatory. Since everything I’ve said so far is true, it’s not defamation. Even so, I do get around it daily, as do most – if not all – of my friends.

    Enjoy your SL

    Kind of hard to do that while you’re still here.

    @ Orion

    I have been told that the hardware ban functionality is being worked on for this purpose (incidentally, it bans at the server level so no alt info is released). And it doesn’t rely on something as stupid as IP addresses. And it does it automatically. Buh-bye, RedZone!

  46. Yep

    Mar 5th, 2011

    Go getem Tiger :P

  47. Persephone Bolero

    Mar 5th, 2011

    @Scylla “because most reasonable people don’t want to be…used for god-only-knows what purpose by god-only-knows whom.”

    Don’t knock it ’till you try it.

  48. Scylla Rhiadra

    Mar 5th, 2011


    Well, that puts a whole new spin on the phenomenon, Persephone.

    Don’t know why people feel the need to spend L$3,999 to get abused by zFire, when I’d mostly likely be happy to abuse ‘em for free.

  49. Gerard Winstanley

    Mar 5th, 2011

    Pixeleen, Pixeleen, Pixeleen … where to start?

    Forum pages and pages of everything this shyster has said being conclusively refuted and all you can do is ask the blandest, mor asinine questions possible.

    Why even bother having a question and answer format? We all know the basic pattern of events. You just give him a clean. free wall to spray-paint his slimy bilge on.

    If therewas a prize for the worst journalism of the year you stil wouldn’t win it – because that was simply NOT journalism.

  50. Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia

    Mar 5th, 2011

    Why do people keep saying redzone is dead? It’s working perfectly. I have no problems with it at all. The web page is loading faster lately, so it’s actually working better now.

    The point of redzone is not to display alts. The point of redzone is to give people the tools to decide who can and can not access their sims (sims that they pay US$1200+ for annually). It’s LL’s fault that they refused to fix the bugs that lead to RedZone’s creation. It’s their fault that they made viewing alts possible and legal in TOS until they recently changed it. zFire changed RedZone accordingly. It’s fully TOS compliant now.

    So RedZone is not dead. The GreenZone movement is dead because you guys have nothing to complain about any more. It’s too bad you didn’t use your influence to get LL to actually fix the problems with the security tools built in to SL so we wouldn’t have to rely on 3rd party security systems.

    @Nelson: 500, 100, whatever. On my sim we cycle through that list completely every few months without a 3rd party security system that uses an outside of SL database to store the ban list (and yes, people do come back). We go through it faster during busy times like September-October when school lets in and during the Christmas break. That list should be unlimited and it is not. LL refuses to look at this problem.

    See https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-456

Leave a Reply