Sex in SL: Dude Looks Like a Lady — part two
by Alphaville Herald on 22/08/07 at 8:00 pm
after the bomb drops – love does make impossible things happen sometimes
by Aurel miles
As some of you might remember, my first article for the Herald was all about spotting imposters. Specifically it was about men who inhabit female avatars primarily for the purpose of getting their lesbian fantasies fulfilled.
A lot of upheaval in both worlds has kept me from submitting much to the Herald lately and part of it has been caused by an epidemic of outing. Seems like every time I turn around some woman I know, usually a devout lesbian, is coming out as a man and breaking hearts in the bargain.
It’s fair to say that a large chunk of SL residents are here as anything but who they are in the Round World. Many, if not most come to live out fantasies. Powerless people like having power and powerful people sometimes want to hide from the burden of responsibility in the real world and have someone take care of them here.
The real advantage to SL is that after a while in a truly intimate relationship, whatever it is you are or you do out there in three dimensions, however you choose to present yourself, it all falls away anyhow and you become who you actually are. However, a person who is committed to living out a fantasy at any cost can cause a lot of heartache.
Travel around SL for a while and you’ll hear the stories, read a few profiles and you’ll see many more. Loves lost, loves “died,” loves betrayed – they all abound here. Stack them together and you have enough material to write a thousand russian novels and plot a new soap opera every day.
There’s the pretty woman’s skin for sale at a shop tucked away at a lover’s rendezvous – people say she was a custom job for the lover of a designer who caught her in a deception and put her skin up for sale, cheap, to anyone who wants it just to see her become commonplace.
There was the woman who “died in real life”, and disappeared to her friends because she had fallen in love with a woman for real and needed to see if he could woo and win his love as a man.
Then there was the woman who was abandoned by her lesbian lover and spent weeks holed up at home, literally contemplating (and adjusting) her navel. She tore down their house first. I understand demolition is very therapeutic.
Honesty is relative here. It’s as real as the hair on your avatar’s head. But I do have a few revisions that might help the newly rezzed make their way through the minefield that is love and sex on this plateau.
First, if you are here to experiment, try to remind yourself that others are just as sophisticated as you, maybe more so. They’re here for the same reasons. If you’re a man in a female avatar, remember, your lesbian friend who is really interested in techniques of self-love may just as easily be a man who is here to fine tune his own lovemaking skills as a woman here to understand her own body. The sex between you is as real or unreal as you want it to be. If it creeps you out to be discussing sex with another man, well, you’ll just have to burn that bridge when you come to it, won’t you?
Forget spotting imposters
SL isn’t about who you are on the outside, it’s about your soul. It sounds trite but it’s true. Falling in love happens, yes but when it’s real it happens between two people, wetware, as a friend of mine puts it, doesn’t actually amount to much. At least one of the experienced players I’ve met here has told me it is more intense to fall in love in SL because there are no physical barriers – we are pure thought and pure intention. If you’re here to play cop or interrogator, there are sims designed for that. Many married couples come to Flatland together. And some gender swap while they are here. They say the experience deepens their intimacy, giving them a new opportunity to explore sides of themselves and their partners that have remained buried in the Round World.
If you insist that your partners have a package that reflects the real stuff in the Round World, ask yourself why? Are you here to find a RL partner? If you are, try being honest about that in your profile. That will give you a better chance at putting off the experimenters since they’re here to explore their sexuality not to end up in a cozy twosome anyway. And for God’s sake, don’t trust photos. Anyone can slap a photo in their profile, you have no proof it is actually them.
If you are playing SL as an imposter just for the kicks of seeing if you can fool people don’t expect them to guard your secret. The way you play determines the way you are played. A little sincerity goes a long way. All of the people you meet here are real people regardless of who steers the avatar.
For those of you who have formed a connection and then had to live through a gender shift, remember this scenario sometimes happens even in real life. Consider the trust it takes to step out into the light and try to see the situation for what it is – no advice here, just reminding you that we are all a case-by-case basis. Everyone’s love affair is unique to them. I have heard of at least one case where two people fell in love and lived through not only a gender deception but a lot of other issues as well. They found their way back to each other. Sometimes despite the worst intentions, it becomes real. Sometimes that causes as much anxiety to the partner who is the imposter as it does to the one being deceived. As foolish as it may sound, love does make impossible things happen sometimes, if you can be a little bit fearless and hang on to what you really care about, it is possible to get beyond just about anything, even here. Maybe that’s especially true here where everything is created and directed by you. The possibilities are only as limited as your own thinking.
Finally, if it happens to you – if you end up on the wrong side of a Gotcha! moment, then remember you’re only human. You won’t die from it. People make mistakes, they get their hearts broken and sometimes it leads to better things. Friends help and chances are there are a lot of them there for you, just waiting to be supportive. Maybe you wanted more than what was there, more likely you got swept up in a moment and shut your eyes to the things you just didn’t want to see. It happens, worst you can say about it is; you played an honest game and lost. That’s not really such a bad thing. Over time it will get better and you don’t have to leave SL in a hail of angry words to save your dignity. Go easy yourself and it’ll be easier to go easy on others.
Back to something spicy next week.
Questions, comments, personal stories – write to Aurel.miles@yahoo.com
Second Lulz Vigilante
Aug 22nd, 2007
Or you can just dispense with this cybersex crap altogether. I’d even say that SLibacy seems to be growing ever so slightly in popularity(especially among oldbies who are bored with cybersex) but that’s just a personal anecdote based on my own conversations and not something backed up by any official stats. So take it with a grain of salt.
Victorria Paine
Aug 22nd, 2007
The way I approach it is to separate RL and SL pretty firmly. What I mean by that is that I am fully present as “me” in both RL and SL — but my mode of being in each realm differs due to the different limitations posed by each medium, and the resulting different choices I make in how to lead “my” life in each place. Because I have no interest in taking any SL relationship into RL, I’m not terribly concerned about the RL gender of any lovers or other relationship mates — I know that statistically at least some of them must be men, but if they are convincingly female to me (and I think I can tell the difference most of the time, actually, but I don’t spend a lot of time trying to sleuth it out) and read as “female” to me in my interactions with them in SL, that’s good enough for me. I’m not interested in using SL as a platform for starting a RL relationship, so I’m not that concerned about those facts.
Now, having said that, I *do* believe that people can and do fall in love in SL. But you have to remember who it is you are falling in love with. It is, to *some* degree, the typist behind the avatar, but in reality it is the image that the typist wants to project into SL that you are falling in love with. And of course that works both ways and in all directions — it doesn’t apply *just* to gender bending men. Many RL women here also project personae that are pretty different in many ways from the persona you would encounter if you met them in RL. It’s the nature of the medium. So when I do feel feelings like that coming on — and it does happen sometimes — I accept them as the gift that they are, but … and this is the key part (at least for me) … I respect those feelings as having been born in, and as being proper to, the realm of SL, and not being part of who I am in RL. Does that mean when I log off I don’t feel the feelings? Of course I do. But I do not seek to bring the relationship into my RL, ever, regardless of what feelings I have for the typist’s projection into SL. I find by maintaining that discipline I can be both more relaxed about “sleuthing out” someone’s RL information, as well as more comfortable with giving myself to things emotionally within SL, knowing that I will be disciplined to keep the relationship confined to SL, and not bring it into RL.
By approaching it that way, I think I’ve avoided some of the conundrums that come up relating to these kinds of issues. As I say above, when I go to a lesbian club in SL, I look around and I’m pretty sure a good number of the “women” there are male typists who may be either curious or creepy or maybe even closeted or “in denial” transgendered men … but I don’t worry much about that when I am interacting with them. The interaction is what matters to me, the persona that they project into SL, is what I enjoy and what I pay attention to. In my personal opinion, if you leave the door swinging open between SL and your RL, you are inviting problems to take place — not that there aren’t some great success stories out there, but my own sense, based on people I’ve spoken with over the years and the various anecdotes I’ve heard, is that these are outnumbered by the bad ones.
Anon.
Aug 22nd, 2007
Let’s put this into perspective…
I am a real life Gentleman who plays a Lady in the Second life. I have many good friends who are not aware I am male and I fully expect to keep it that way. I have had virtual sex, many times, and I have had Intimate experiences beyond sex many times as well. I have been a Furry, a Gorean Slave, an respectable Debutante. I am sure, without a doubt that if you put me in a line-up with a dozen other actual girls in SL. You would never be able to tell the difference.
I started to play female Characters Years ago when a Friend told em about Telnet MUDDs. On his advice, I began with a Female Character, because “The Guys will help out a Girl faster than the would a guy.” True enough, when ever I needed a Tank or Resurrection… I got it right off. I was truly amazed that gender made such a difference, and I decided to Experiment in different areas. I moved to Chat groups, IRC and Yahoo were my alternate realities. I learned right away that Just replaying ‘F’ to A/S/L? wasn’t gonna be enough.
Luckily I had a theatre background and played a little AD&D in High School. In the 15 years of living as a virtual girl, I have taken my characters to amazing levels. ‘I’ have had dozens of boyfriends, 2 babies, married, and sexually assaulted. I have counseled more relationships than I can count and helped guide 3 victims of different kinds of abuse to help themselves to professional aide. Currently I am with a Man (in SL) who recently left his wife for a new girlfriend and wanted to leave that girlfriend for me.
I am no where near proud of everything I have done, but I am confident that I have never caused harm to a soul in this real world of ours. I enjoy my time as a woman and will continue to relish the experiences I have had. I learned so much about how women live, react, treat each other, and treat themselves. I have used this knowledge to broaden my experiences in dealing with the women in my life. My wife has no complaints over they way I play or the lessons I learned. She, in fact has been the inspiration for some of my adventures, and reaped the benefit of others.
I am the Girl you flirt with in the virtual Bar, the hot dancer hanging to that pole, the giggly princess walking through the crowd you can’t quite take your eyes off of.
And you will never know the real me…
Mark
Aug 22nd, 2007
“Or you can just dispense with this cybersex crap altogether.”
Why do you care? Why does it bother you so much? Why should people stop just because some extremely poorly adjusted people who are scared of their own bodies want them to? And let’s be honest, shall we? No one’s gonna give it up because some netrat kid thinks it’s “gross” or whatever.
Every time I hear this type of sentiment, I imagine a young person who has very little experience out in the world. A young person who is caught up in a bunch of memes, which come off sounding to me like a more “mature” version of “ewww gross GIRL GERMS!”.
You don’t have to impress us like you feel you have to impress your meme-mates.
What is meaningful to others doesn’t have to be meaningful to you, to be legitimate. A LOT of the long noses in SL could stand to learn that lesson.
janeforyou Barbara
Aug 22nd, 2007
Wel here we go again, nothing new, well written tho
Hers some advice :
-1. If over 80% of the groups they belong to involve sex of some kind…
…… Likely a guy.
-2. If you are ever asked: “How old are you?” for no apparent reason…
…… Likely a guy.
-3. If an escort propositions women in mixed company before the men…
…… Likely a guy.
-4. If little to no care is taken on how their avatar looks… but wears revealing clothes or none at all…
…… Likely a guy.
-5. If out of the blue, without a peep, she (as a stranger) invites you to join her friend’s list…
…… Likely a guy.
-6. If they are wearing nothing (or next to nothing) at the beach.. but are in heels…
…… Likely a guy.
-7. If their avatar is named after body parts or sex acts…
…… Likely a guy.
-8. If she starts clicking on your clit or asking for sex as her response to “Hello”
…… Likely a guy.
-9. If her language is worse than a sailor with Tourette Syndrome…
…… Likely a guy.
-10. If a single avatar matches ANY three of the above.. it IS a guy
Have fun
Ryntha
Aug 22nd, 2007
Actually, if it’s the same skin I am thinking about – the designer was not involved with the couple and has never given the rights for the skin to be available to anyone other than the person that commissioned it. The boyfriend of the girl that commissioned the skin ended up damaging the designer just to get back at the girlfriend.
Good read and I have to agree with many points in this article.
Dire Allen
Aug 23rd, 2007
Or… do what I do. Don’t get emotionally involved with these people. IF you want love, go outside. You might be surprised at what you find.
I’m man enough to admit that I’ve done the whole package when I first entered SL. I dated, married, bought the Xcite Ejaculating Penis, and had my heart torn to shreads all in a matter of 3 months.
Afterwards, I took a step back, examined how and what I wanted from SL. And I learned from my mistake, which was trying to replace RL with SL.
Then I asked myself “what made SL fun for me?”. The answer was, “building weird avatars, and not being myself”. Basically joking around, doing things that I wouldn’t necessarily do in my rl. That is legal things of course(ie: not griefing people to death with spengebab cubes because it’s lulz worthy.).
I might be labeled as a griefer based on how I appear. But honestly, I leave that stuff up to the pros. I’m just there to not be normal that’s all. And that’s what I enjoy. Because my rl is srsbsns, boring, bland, and full of non-stop responsiblity. Why in God’s name would I want that in a video game?
ps.. Dire Allen isn’t my real SL name
mootykips
Aug 23rd, 2007
Note on the imposter thing. Running around with a female av and trolling people is about the funniest thing you can ever do. I once made a female av and had five guys hit on me within the first hour.
Second Lulz Vigilante
Aug 23rd, 2007
@Mark
“Why do you care? Why does it bother you so much? Why should people stop just because some extremely poorly adjusted people who are scared of their own bodies want them to? And let’s be honest, shall we? No one’s gonna give it up because some netrat kid thinks it’s “gross” or whatever.”
I love it when internet people try to put words in other people’s mouths.
Actually, I don’t care all that much. But most of the other cybersexers DO seem to care and freak out about this gender bender stuff and I hear them whining alot. I’m just offering a bit of advice for anybody that wants to uncomplicate their experience on SL. Btw, I’m not a kid. I’m in my 30s but believe what you want.
“Every time I hear this type of sentiment, I imagine a young person who has very little experience out in the world. A young person who is caught up in a bunch of memes, which come off sounding to me like a more “mature” version of “ewww gross GIRL GERMS!”".
What? Telling people they can give up cybersex means they have little experience in the real world? lol!
And no kid worries about “girl germs” anymore.
“You don’t have to impress us like you feel you have to impress your meme-mates.”
What the Hell are babbling about? SLibacy isn’t a meme.
“What is meaningful to others doesn’t have to be meaningful to you, to be legitimate. A LOT of the long noses in SL could stand to learn that lesson.”
I wish the cybersexers on SL felt the same way toward us SLibates. I’m so fucking tired of people getting upset because I wouldn’t go to one of their laggy SL weddings or refuse to listen when they caught their online lover “cheating” on them. I’m not on SL for the soap opera shit so why do the people who actually enjoy the drama always insist that I care about it? If I’m going inworld I’d rather have some fun and do my own thing than participate in their “serious business”.
DF
Aug 23rd, 2007
It’s even so much simpler then what this article suggests.
If you’re creeped out by the possibility that the big breasted blonde on your screen is a guy IRL, don’t cyber. Period.
If you don’t care… have fun.
Easy as 3.1415
GreenLantern Excelsior
Aug 23rd, 2007
What a great article! I would add one more item to janeforyou Barbara’s list:
-11. If her Voice Client is running, she responds to voice messages via the keyboard, but her microphone is inexplicably inoperative…
…… Likely a guy.
The Voice Client may bring many of these role-plays to an end. I’ve seen excuses like “I have a speech impediment – too embarrassed” or “My microphone doesn’t like my computer.” Want to be sure? Wait until you’ve had a voice chat with her.
Inigo Chamerberlin
Aug 23rd, 2007
Guys playing as girls…. Hmmm, why the concern about that?
What about the girls who play as guys? No one seems to worry about that for some reason.
Just a thought.
Victorria Paine
Aug 23rd, 2007
“The Voice Client may bring many of these role-plays to an end. I’ve seen excuses like “I have a speech impediment – too embarrassed” or “My microphone doesn’t like my computer.” Want to be sure? Wait until you’ve had a voice chat with her.”
They may do that in some cases, but if voice is every approached like that, it will exclude many more people than gender bending men. I’m a woman in RL and I do not use voice. Why? Because it injects SL into my RL in a way I don’t like (I don’t want my son, for example, to overhear what I am saying in SL) and it injects other people’s RL into my SL (I don’t want to her their blaring television sets or screaming kids in the background). I like to keep SL and RL separate, as I mention above, and voice is largely a tool for wedding them together, so I don’t use it. If you want to believe I’m a guy because of that, feel free … but be aware that many women also don’t like to use voice.
yo k
Aug 23rd, 2007
-12. If her shoulders are wider than her really narrow hips, and she has huge breasts, it’s likely a guy.
C’mon guys, learn some proportion.
DaveOner
Aug 23rd, 2007
The whole “falling in love in SL” thing is mostly done by people that have no idea how to interact with people IRL. The same goes for cyber sex. With the amount of money people spend on skins and Xcite bullshit you could have paid for drinks at a bar and have gotten REAL ass for the night. Too bad you have no social skills!
If you have all your relationships and friendships on the computer you only have 1/3 of what you would have in person. Body language speaks more than words. I can get the general idea of what a group is talking about based on their body language without knowing thier spoken language.
Love and attraction without body language is a lie. “True love” is a chemical response to help us procreate, thus it relies on physical attraction.
The notion that men and women are the same physiologically is a lie, too. Both have inherent strengths and weaknesses that complement each other in a relationship as well as the obvious physical differences.
Plus there’s the issue of honesty. Your relationship is a lie until you bring it into RL through meeting and in-person interraction.
The whole cybersex thing lasted for about a month with me…and it was more out of amusement and humor than any sort of need for arousal. I thought it was hilarious the lengths people would go to in SL to get fake sex! Then month 2 came along and it was time to learn to build!
Go ahead and do your thing but you’re fooling yourself if you dismiss any of the above factors when you think you are in love with someone in SL. SL is a great entertainment tool but it’s also the worst enabler for unhealthy behavior on the internet…and the internet is for porn!
GreenLantern Excelsior
Aug 23rd, 2007
I wouldn’t say the Voice Client is for “wedding together” RL and SL. It’s just another means of communication, the same as text and gestures. Your son can hear you speaking softly into a microphone for two seconds, or banging away on your keyboard for ten seconds to say the same thing. Fingers get tired, carpal tunnel syndrome sets in, and voice gives your tired fingertips a welcome rest. As far as believing you’re a man because you don’t use voice, that’s not what I said. All I said was I can’t be sure who you are until I hear your real voice. And what a coincidence – both of my examples given above came from female avatars. My conclusion about them? None so far. Just filed under “we don’t really know yet.”
Second Lulz Vigilante
Aug 23rd, 2007
@mootykips
“Note on the imposter thing. Running around with a female av and trolling people is about the funniest thing you can ever do. I once made a female av and had five guys hit on me within the first hour.”
This actually sounds like it might be funny. Please elaborate.
MandingoDonJuan CassinovaFrankenstein
Aug 23rd, 2007
I don’t have any problem with guys playing gals or vice versa. It’s liars I despise.
If you play a woman and tell people you’re a guy – no problem, but if you lie to anybody, nothing you say can ever again be taken as truth.
As far as sex in SL goes, I had the same experience as a poster above – bought the Xcite, did it in my first month in SL for amusement and a few laughs, then month 2 came and I learned how much fun it is to build things.
You have to admit, if you get any sexual gratification from SL, you’re basically masturbating to cartoons.
Fine for Anime fans I guess, but even if you like sex with real humans, there’s an overabundance of that to be found elsewhere on the intarnets.
I guess these gorian twinks and their slave girls find more gratification in SL, since they have some inbred deviation to control or be controlled. But I suspect that if you look behind the keyboard, you’ll find that a lot of these gorian slave girls are pale, fat, politician guys wearing their wife’s garters and panties – politicians love to be spanked and humiliated from what I’ve heard, and they’re the best liars in the world, so showing up in SL as a slave girl is probably good practice for them. Also taking it up the ass.
Furries probably see an advantage in SL because yiffing in RL can be hard, unless your costume has a conveniently placed zipper. But then, if you’re screwing a dog, does it even matter if it’s a guy or girl – or even a cartoon?
So I guess what I’m probably trying to say is, a liar is a liar. And the only correct response to when someone lies is a swift kick in the nuts. It won’t cure them of lying, but like Pavlov’s Dog, they’ll think twice before lying again.
Angel
Aug 23rd, 2007
>> “What about the girls who play as guys? No one seems to worry about that for some reason.”
Strangely enough I just found out that a guy I have a crush on has a female typist, but then two of my SL cousins are also females in the real world and males in the grid.
I know my sexuality 120% and I am not Bisexual in any way or form.
Did the fact that this person has different bits out there change my perceptions of him in here? Newp… he still had his bits here for me to bite and his mind had not changed in the slighest.
SL is SL and RL is RL. The Avatar you see and fall for is genuine and changes outside the virtual world do not change the reasons you fell in love, lust or carnal desire. IMHO people who worry about such things are simply not comfortable with their own sexuality.
Mark
Aug 23rd, 2007
Lulz, your name invited my comments. It’s juvenile. So are most of your comments. I am truly sorry for your family that you are into your 30s, if that’s even true, which I doubt. Anyway, if the shoe fits…
Don’t like it? Too fucking bad hard guy.
DaveOner. Who appointed you to decide what is or isn’t a real relationship? How is it magically not a RL relationship just because of where you met them? Were pen pals not RL when that was in fashion?
I’d much rather meet someone at a distance, at first, where we can get to know each other, rather than being set up on another likely to go nowhere blind date or taking my chances meeting someone in a bar or something. A good portion of the world still has arranged marriages. Are those fake too? A “lie”? Open your mind, and quit trying to box people up according to your (narrow minded)personal beliefs.
Grow up you scared little boys with your juvenile logic.
I can just smell the fear in here. Cover it up with your haughty unqualified sex expert lectures all you want. You don’t fool me.
Karl Herber
Aug 23rd, 2007
@yo k:
One of the things that often saddens me about SL relationships is how fast they go downhill, not necessarily for gender reasons, but for all kinds of other reasons too. However, please don’t write off all online relationships this way. I met my partner online over 2 years ago, the last year we’ve also been in SL together (Maybe it makes a difference that we didn’t discover each other online, we already knew each other, knew what we looked like etc?) A month ago we got the opportunity to meet for the first time in RL, and we found that to be all that we had ever dared hope for, and more. My partner is now making plans to live and work full-time in the UK so we can be together. I also know of at least one other couple who met in SL, are now living together in RL, and are to be married next spring. Love and attraction without body language is not a lie (otherwise, how would blind people ever fall in love?). Sometimes that 1/3 we have left is enough.
DaveOner
Aug 23rd, 2007
I’m sorry if I hit too close to home, Mark, but I’m calling it how I’ve seen it. And how is NOT jacking off to my online girlfriend because I don’t have one considered juvenile? Clean up and go meet some girls IRL and you’ll never go back to your imaginary love life!
Penpals? Please. That’s like half a friendship until you’ve met the person.
I met my current g/f in SL. We were just shit-talking homies until we started talking on the phone and decided to meet. It wasn’t legitimate until we met in person to see if we were being honest to each other.
I’m not doubting you can start a legitimate relationship in SL but it can’t be legitimate if it’s contained in SL or on the internet. I’ve got plenty of friends in SL but I’d log off mid-conversation if any of my RL friends came to my house to kick it.
Sorry kids but SL
greta garbo
Aug 23rd, 2007
i agree with what Mark said which is a bit off topic but anyway
i dunno . .its your sl be who you want to be . . but if i find out someone is presenting themselves in rl other then what they actually are genderwise, marital status or anything else . . if im lied to and i find out then i will never speak to you again. And it will be your lose not mine. I expect honesty when rl info is conveyed. i love how people delude themselves into thinking that kind of behavior is ok. Be a girl if you want. i really dont care. But dont lie to me about rl stuff.
Second Lulz Vigilante
Aug 23rd, 2007
@Mark
“Lulz, your name invited my comments. It’s juvenile. So are most of your comments. I am truly sorry for your family that you are into your 30s, if that’s even true, which I doubt. Anyway, if the shoe fits…
Don’t like it? Too fucking bad hard guy.”
Yep. Lable my comments as juvenile rather than actually adress them. Nice dodge.
But okay. Fair enough. If you ever fall for a woman on SL and then discover that she’s actually a guy(or any of the other pitfalls that can happen with SL “relationships”) don’t whine and bitch and then throw a hissy fit when some of your SL friends say “I’m sorry but I’m not here to hear your soap opera shit. I get enough of that in RL, thanks”.
“Grow up you scared little boys with your juvenile logic.
I can just smell the fear in here. Cover it up with your haughty unqualified sex expert lectures all you want. You don’t fool me.”
Logic? You’re making all these ad hominems and then have the balls to call people on the other side of the argument illogical? *chuckles*
Okay smart guy. I’ve stated that avoiding SL sex altogether can uncomplicate one’s SL experience. Got any evidence to the contrary?
@DaveOner
“Plus there’s the issue of honesty. Your relationship is a lie until you bring it into RL through meeting and in-person interraction.”
Agreed. I have seen one couple actually transfer it to RL but in my experience this seems to be the exception rather than the average(60 days or less).
“The whole cybersex thing lasted for about a month with me…and it was more out of amusement and humor than any sort of need for arousal. I thought it was hilarious the lengths people would go to in SL to get fake sex! Then month 2 came along and it was time to learn to build!”
SLibacy is slowly growing. I think they’ve even got some groups for SLibates now.
greta garbo
Aug 24th, 2007
Sorry to break it to you guys but alot of people are doing the sex thing in sl . . i know for a FACT. . and moreover you are never gonna change that .. ever . . as long as people have genitals in rl and desire to get off they will being wanking or rubbing one off and there is nothing that makes a computer or sl off limits for it. So you are basically out of your minds and blowing into the wind on that topic. Its great that a. you get enough sex in rl that you dont think of using sl for that or b. you are frigid sexually but regardless . . what really gets me is the condescending superior attitude people are having about it. Yay you dont wank off infront of your comp. Guess what? i DONT CARE. and i really dont want you to care about what im doing. Mind your own business and stick your holier the thou attitude up your ass.
mootykips
Aug 24th, 2007
“This actually sounds like it might be funny. Please elaborate.”
Not hard. I simply made a realistic SL name, filled in my profile with information that alluded to me being a Japanese girl living in Kobe, hit the freebie warehouse and related areas, and constructed a decent avatar. The original intent was to use these av(s) for intel work (as females are much less likely to be banned/suspected as spies), but I found it fun simply wandering around and sitting down. I was hit on repeatedly at the freebie warehouse, completely out of the blue. It was funny but horribly sad. One guy even TPd me to his BDSM dungeon and wanted me to lock him in a cage.
“There are no women on the internet” is the rule, but it isn’t literal. Women in a online community where other women are scarce tend not to make themselves known (for both TITS OR GTFO reasons, and the fact that women are more social toward other women than horny nerds).
In the meantime, try it. It beats fly fishing.
DF
Aug 24th, 2007
DaveOwner said:
“The whole “falling in love in SL” thing is mostly done by people that have no idea how to interact with people IRL. The same goes for cyber sex”
So, what you’re saying, is that anyone having cyber sex on SL automatically is single in RL and can’t get a GF or BF?
male bovine excrement.
Mandigosomethingsomething said:
“Furries probably see an advantage in SL because yiffing in RL can be hard, unless your costume has a conveniently placed zipper. But then, if you’re screwing a dog, does it even matter if it’s a guy or girl – or even a cartoon?”
Learn something about furries before making yourself look stupid. I know you think EVERY furry has a fursuit and ony wants to have sex with it on, and that EVERY furry must be into animal sex… But that shows just how much you really know.
Not a whole lot, as you so clearly prove here.
Jenny Raymaker
Aug 24th, 2007
First point, “Jenny Raymaker” isn’t my real SL name so don’t bother searching for me. 8D
I’m a RL male who gender role plays a female avatar in SL. But let me say right from the outset, my reasons for doing so are absolutely one hundred percent not for sexual kicks or anything related. In fact I have never taken part in SL sex activities whatsoever apart from a visit to a sex area shortly after joining purely out of curiosity and to see the mechanics of it all. Bleh, okay if people want to get their jollies watching pixels banging each other then that’s fine. But it’s not for me and it’s not what SL is about for me.
Recently I had an experience which I think is going to become increasingly common. That experience was people asking to hear my voice and I’m sure that many of you have had similar experiences since voice was introduced. Firstly though, I don’t have a mic and have no intention of getting one. Secondly, I honestly don’t care whether people are curious. Unless I am involved with them, it’s really none of their concern. Thirdly, for me, RL and SL are kept entirely seperate for various personal reasons. I don’t want either to cross over into the other more than is necessary. For me, using voice would destroy part of the barrier between the two. And the same goes for hearing the voices of those around me. Just like when you read a book, the character has a voice in your head but when they make a film of the book, you are often disappointed because the characters don’t look and sound the way you see and hear them in your head.
For me, my SL experience as a female is purely about the role play. Nothing mucky involved at all. In some respects, it’s no different to playing traditional role playing games like D&D although of course I recognise the differences and the dangers. And apparently I play a pretty convincing female I’m told but that in itself has its downsides because when people believe you are a real female, their behaviour can sometimes change and not always for the better – in fact I’ve suffered some quite nasty situations in SL. If anything, role playing a female has taught me a great deal about how males treat females and I’ve actually come to recognise a lot of undesirable behaviours in my own RL which I am gradually correcting now that I can appreciate them from the other point of view. I even discuss such things with my RL partner and she says that she can see definite attitude changes for the better in me since I first went in-world. At first she worried that I was going in-world for cybersex but after she sat with me for a few sessions at my invitation and watched me interacting with my SL friends, she now realises that this isn’t the case. Hell, she now even talks about them as if they were real friends of mine because, they ARE real friends of mine.
During my time in SL, I have made some genuine friends who accept me and the image I present to them through my avatar, gestures, animations, actions and words. And I accept them in exactly the same way. Hell, I even have suspicions that my best friend is actually a man and I know for a fact that one of my male friends is actually female in RL but, do you know what? It doesn’t matter! What matters is the mutual respect, acceptance and friendship we have got going. And that’s important, right? But I think that if you are going to build any form of intimate relationship, even one in SL, then it needs to be built on trust and honesty.
janeforyou Barbara
Aug 24th, 2007
9 of 11 good friends of me in SL are RL women and with voice… if that is so darn important.The rest of other friends i dont hang out with usly i dont know 100% But there behavior tells me thay are women to, ( am talking of users with fem avs here)
After som time its realy easy to find out”whos what”in SL if you notice things.
But ppl, you got to understand,,, SL are not RL,,,its all Fantasy, and dont take away the trill and exsitement.
Rick
Aug 24th, 2007
The Real Women os SL should be Grateful to the Men-women of SL because 9 times out of 10 they are the escorts/Strippers/Hookers and the real women get to actually experiance SL with being dragged into those Jobs.
TPTPTPTP Pienaar
Aug 24th, 2007
Second Life offers a number of opportunities to play at fantasies. It prides itself on this fact. The best fantasies are those in which the player can fully immerse themselves in an experience. In a world like SL, where we are not surrounded by AI’s but real minds, it requires the cooperation of everyone sharing the fantasy.
Philosophically, its no different than choosing a character in a video game. If I choose to play the Valkyrie in the Gauntlet arcade game, that’s just a choice for the game, it doesn’t mean I’m a female in real life.
On that point, I am a married male in r/l and a female in s/l. I’ve been in many “sexual” situations on the Grid, with both male and female avatars, and I never consider for a moment who is typing the text. It doesn’t matter. If you’re on the Grid for roleplay, sexual or otherwise, why ruin the fantasy by trying to inject r/l into it.
Of course, everyone is on s/l for their own reasons, and you may not be there for sex. But if you are there for the roleplay, dwelling on the identity of the typist behind the avatar only takes away from the immersiveness of your own experience. For roleplay to work, you must accept the fact that that dragon over there is real, or that the vampire on the corner really will suck your blood. Or even, that the hot blonde in the miniskirt is really a female.
BTW, NOT my real handle up there. I’ve never run into an issue on SL where someone questioned my sexuality in r/l.
DaveOner
Aug 24th, 2007
“So, what you’re saying, is that anyone having cyber sex on SL automatically is single in RL and can’t get a GF or BF?”
No, I’m saying you have social problems if you turn to SL for your “sex life”. BUT the fact remains that most people in a decent relationship (i.e. actually attracted to the other) aren’t going to run to fire up the computer when they have someone that’s ACTUALLY THERE to get their rocks off with. If you don’t then maybe you should (a) review your relationship or (b) get counseling.
“male bovine excrement.”
Good argument. I never looked at it that way before. /me rolls his eyes.
Now don’t get me wrong! You can do what you want and if that stuff actually satisfies you then go for it but don’t act like it’s healthy! I think people should be allowed to OD on cocaine if they want, too!
Ryntha
Aug 24th, 2007
The whole “I don’t want voice breaking my fantasy” scene is easily mended. Do not enable voice in your preferences, then you can’t hear anyone and you can go about controlling your fantasy world the way you wanted. Apparently a little know fact: You need to have voice enabled to hear it and to use it, it’s an optional feature. People can also see that you can’t hear their voice nor use voice because the white fuzzy dot will not appear above your head. If it’s there, you’re inviting yourself to be asked, so disable it.
And if people asking to hear your real voice bothers you, then you should really stop any social interaction. It happens on messengers, games, forums, any means of communication – some idiot will ask at some point. They’ll ask for pictures, web cam video, voice, and various personal information.. It will always happen. You can’t get away from it, so it’s best to get used to walking away from the situations that bother you. It’s a minor daily annoyance.
Bonnie Ruberg
Aug 24th, 2007
Thought you might all be interested in this. It’s a piece from the Village Voice (from the Village Voice cybersex column called Click Me, specifically) called “OMG, That Woman I Just Had Cybersex with Is Really a Man!”
http://www.villagevoice.com/screens/0735,screens,77594,28.html
It too has tips for telling the gender of the person you’re cybering with, and it works for places beyond Second Life!
archie lukas
Aug 24th, 2007
I have worked with these people
I know these people
and after deep and thorough analysis of all the relevant factors, traits and trends
I have come to one single and clear solution.
Cut their goolies off.
You know it makes sense.
DaveOner
Aug 24th, 2007
Why cut their goolies off? They’re obviously not using them!
Mark
Aug 24th, 2007
“Yep. Lable my comments as juvenile rather than actually adress them. Nice dodge”
No, I did address them, you just don’t like how I did. And that’s just too fucking bad boy genius!
Internet lulz vigilante – who has life figured not only for himself, but everybody else too. And at such a tender age! *head pat*
Your whole line of thought is a product of arrested development. I don’t need to delve deeply into a vat of shit to determine that it’s shit.
Mark
Aug 24th, 2007
Dave Oner. No. you didn’t hit too close to home. I haven’t dated anyone from online before. Although I know many people that have. Some fail, some succeed and I know of several couples that are now married IRL. Just like relationships where the partners meet in any other venue, there is a chance of failure. Most relationships do end up failing, regardless of where the participants met. I have been involved with the same person for over ten years, whom I met at work. I had to deal with people telling me how positively awful that was too. It’s just crap. What works for one person may or may not work for the nest. I just bristle when idiots like Lulz who spout off internet memes with no real hard stats, just arrogant opinions born of a superiority complex (which is possibly just a cover for an inferiority complex)and at the same time talking in near-absolutes while talking for everyone else, like he knows what’s good or bad for everyone else in the world. Fuck that noise.
Here’s the thing – I refuse to adhere to conformist meme/constructs. That’s all. I don’t let fear influence my opinions of others or my personal decisions. I don’t have this huge hang up that some folks have that somehow interacting with people through the internet as a medium needs to be compartmentalized. I see that as an illogical reaction born of little more than fear and drama mongering.
After you’re last post, I see that I may not have read you properly, so I am not labeling YOU personally in that above paragraph regarding the strict compartmentalization some people cling to as some sort of security blanket.
Lulz – cry me a river about ad hominem. Your opening post was nothing more than ad hominem against a whole segment of the SL populace.
*yawn*
Second Lulz Vigilante
Aug 24th, 2007
@mootykips
“I simply made a realistic SL name, filled in my profile with information that alluded to me being a Japanese girl living in Kobe, hit the freebie warehouse and related areas, and constructed a decent avatar.”
A Japanese girl? Good choice. I’ve noticed this weird fascination with Japanese shit on SL.
“I was hit on repeatedly at the freebie warehouse, completely out of the blue. It was funny but horribly sad. One guy even TPd me to his BDSM dungeon and wanted me to lock him in a cage.”
lmao! I gotta admit that this is funnier shit than I’ve ever pulled on SL. A winnar is you, sir. XD
“”There are no women on the internet” is the rule, but it isn’t literal. Women in a online community where other women are scarce tend not to make themselves known (for both TITS OR GTFO reasons, and the fact that women are more social toward other women than horny nerds).
In the meantime, try it. It beats fly fishing.”
I dunno if I could, mooty. Sometimes my kids walk in on me while I’m on SL. They can understand the cowboy, viking, biker, and cowboy/viking/biker combo getups I wear(they’ve come to accept that dad can be a silly bastard with a weird sense of humor). But explaining a femme av could be a lot harder especially to my youngest. *shrugs*
@Mark
Okay, whatever. But look at my above conversation with mootykips and reflect on it next time you’re out cybersexing. You could be his next trolling victim. lol!
Victorria Paine
Aug 25th, 2007
”I’m not doubting you can start a legitimate relationship in SL but it can’t be legitimate if it’s contained in SL or on the internet.”
Sorry, but that’s nonsense. What you have is a virtual relationship with the aspects of the other typist that they are projecting into SL – it’s a “real” relationship, but it’s simply different from what a relationship between the two typists would be without their projections into SL. Now, if you prefer not to have those kinds of “SL only” relationships, that’s fine, but coming in here and suggesting to everyone else that they are not possible for anyone to have (or even worse that they are not “legitimate”) reeks of both arrogance and ignorance in spades. Not only is your perspective needlessly constrained, but your projection of it onto everyone else is simply pathetic. Get over yourself.
“I’ve got plenty of friends in SL but I’d log off mid-conversation if any of my RL friends came to my house to kick it.”
Which is frankly rude. I also believe RL takes precedence, but if I am in the middle of a conversation with an SL friend, I will find a way to extricate myself from it if I need to without simply logging off immediately. The relationships are real – if you want to treat them like they are a plastic grocery bag, then you should expect to get treated that way in return. And certainly I’m glad that my own friends in SL don’t have attitudes like yours.
Kathmandu
Aug 25th, 2007
Furries probably see an advantage in SL because yiffing in RL can be hard, unless your costume has a conveniently placed zipper. But then, if you’re screwing a dog, does it even matter if it’s a guy or girl – or even a cartoon?”
Learn something about furries before making yourself look stupid. I know you think EVERY furry has a fursuit and ony wants to have sex with it on, and that EVERY furry must be into animal sex… But that shows just how much you really know.
I have to agree. I am a furry, been in the fandom over 20 years in fact but never had any desire to have a fursuit at all. Fursuiting isn’t really that prevalent in the fandom at all to begin with. Most furries tend to consider fursuiters as oddballs and the thought of any sort of sex in a shapeless mascot costume one typically sees to be creepy and weird too. In the fursuiting community itself, most aren’t there for the supposed sexual kink so much as the cute and cuddly factor and/or the anonymous “act like a nut” with a costume on . Aside from that, spending upwards of $1500 for a quality fursuit means you don’t ruin it by getting body fluids and what have you on it.
This whole “furries fuck dogs” thing pisses me off. Furries. as a whole, tend to screw other furries. Just as a Trekkie nerd’s wet dream involves finding a partner that shares their love of all things Star Trek, furries desire a partner who shares their interest in “PEOPLE with animal attributes” not animals. The richest, most famous furry in the world who has been a male sexuallity icon in America for decades is Hugh Hefner. You know, Playboy BUNNIES, rabbit icon representing the company and who was inspired by a pin up painting by Petty of a sexy woman in a bunny costume to start his empire. Thinking Hef regularly screws rabbits is just as silly as thinking furries screw the pooch. Given that 13% of all males raised in rural areas have had sex with livestock, I’d say the rate of bestiality in the furry fandom is less than the general population simply because most furs are city raised.
Lance Johnson
Aug 25th, 2007
Lawl
badger payne
Aug 27th, 2007
Holy Shit !
You mean the 7 foot tall brown unicorn i’ve been having Virtual sex with in SL, may not actually be a Unicorn in RL ?
I’m off to slit my wrists …
PK
Aug 27th, 2007
I am seriously Beginning to wonder if there are any RL females that use Second Life. LOL
Amethyst
Aug 28th, 2007
I have been playing SL for roughly over 2 years. I must say that when I first started playing that I did try a male avi, thinking that I would be able to get into being what I was forced into being in RL, male. I have since rolled a female toon, and I have made many many friends. People who do know me have asked, “why do you play female toons, you arent female.” I disagree, I am female, I was forced into being a male in RL, however if I can be what my mind says I am for a moment and forget about my RL complications then why not eh? I feel female, I think female, dont get me wrong I do have strong male feelings sometimes, but the majority of those feelings are female.
I may lack the apearance of a female in RL, but hey so be it. Does this mean I am gay, no. Do I like guys for relationships, no. I am a lesbian, plain and simple, its who I am, its who I was born as. I believe my inner being is female, and anyone who laughs or argues this I laugh at. You cant tell someone who they are, or force someone to be what they are not. Believe me I have tried playing male toons time and time again and I cant do it, its not who I am.
As for sex in SL, yeah I admit I have been to xcite and keep my stuff upgraded regularly, do I ever use it, no. Why? Because I am so sick of virtual sex, theres nothing there. I play SL now for MY enjoyment, I shop, I dance, I socialize with friends, at times I build. I have fun, and thats whats important, if I didnt have fun and it felt like it was a job or something like that I wouldnt play.
PS..Again those that think they know it all and think that who I am is nothing more then a pervy guy wanting to see boobs, think again.
Holly
Aug 28th, 2007
Hugs for you, Amethyst. PK, yes there are definitely real females in SL. My AV looks just like my fat, tie dye shirt and blue jeans wearing RL self. Keeps a lot of the idiots from hitting on me. And I like being me, in RL or SL. Roleplay can be fun but that’s not why I play in SL.
me
Oct 3rd, 2007
I am a single lesbian in RL & SL. In the beginning I thought I could tell who were the women by what they said bc I think it is hard for a man to really be able to do that. I looked for little nuances that I thought only a woman would display.
After a while, it occurred to me that statistically speaking, the number of women I thought were really women could not be accurate. I always said if a man is good enough to fool me, I don’t care. It’s only fantasy, I won’t meet them. After all, SL is masturbation 2.0. I have been single a long time and before SL, I just took care of things alone. I liked what SL added.
I made it clear in SL I was not looking for a relationship. This crazy female avatar, with broken english and a strange personality declared us girlfriends. I make it a point in SL not to get attached. And I didn’t this time. But even though she was crazy, i did like her (or whoever it was i made her to be in my head). I knew it was possible she was a man. I had my suspicions.
Of course she turned out to be a guy and i found out when her friend told me out of guilt. i could have been more cautious but i wasnt, so i am not surprised this happened. i didnt like being lied to more than finding out i was with a dude.
Now I spend time with friends, putting on silly av’s and laughing, going to see live music, and exploring SL. i wouldnt fool around with anyone i didnt voice verify. i understand not everyone has the privacy for voice. if thats your situation, i understand but it means we will just be friends. your rl problems are not my sl problems.