A SLOG Throught the Second Life Political Landscape

Prokofy Neva

Nov 8th, 2005

Geez, Uri, since you were handing out links to the FIC and Hammie, was it really so hard to give a link to my critique of Aimee’s pan-I-mean-parties?
http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2005/11/aimees_pani_mea.html

Meh, I’m going to treat you to less of my ubiquitry.

marilyn murphy

Nov 9th, 2005

this chart of parties leaves out the huge Silent Majority Party.

its sort of understandable that they be left off of any chart since they only represent 95% of second life citizens. they dont read or respond to any blogs or forums. they never heard of prokovky or aimee. they dont know the differing viewpoints because they dont know there are any to know.

i run into these party members all the time. when i find an interesting person and am talking to them and mention anything like the forums or blogs or politics or land barons or community values etc… they draw a blank and say something like, “oh? is this something hidden in the background i am not aware of?” i tend to change the subject. why bother them with things outside of their own perceptions of the fun in sl? let them make their own ideas of why sl is worth having.

Prokofy Neva

Nov 9th, 2005

Very well said, Marilyn! And no doubt within that silent majority is contained a full panoply of parties on issues we are not even aware of! This is great news.

Aimee Weber

Nov 10th, 2005

I agree completely Marilyn. However, like in RL, I don’t believe the “not interested” folks likely form alternative parties (though they COULD if they got interested!)

In RL we have the Democrats, and Republicans, and Greens, and Libertarians, etc etc etc. They all fall somewhere on the political landscape. While there is a solid chunk of the population that are uninterested in politics, they aren’t normally considered a party of their own. Rather, they are folks who, if they ever suddenly take an interest in politics, will find a place within the framework.

Try it for yourself. Find one the the 95% folks you described, and ask them:

“Do you think Second Life should be treated more like a country where users have democratic rights over LL’s policy, or more like a company where LL exercises their own control over their policy?”

“Do you think Linden Lab should exercise a high degree of control over the populace when it comes to dicipline, or a low degree of control?”

The more foundation questions you ask the more likely you will discover that the 95 percenters will have political ideas similar to other SL users. That’s when they party

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that new parties won’t emerge. They most certainly WILL (and some parties will dissapear too!) I am just saying that folks that havn’t decided how they feel about politics are called “undecided” or “swing voters” not “parties.”

Cory Edo

Nov 10th, 2005

I think those 95% are in the All Night Party. As well they should be! None of the other parties have gotten their catering straightened out yet.

Prokofy Neva

Nov 10th, 2005

There you go again, Aimee, under cover of “just asking questions” or “engaging in political analysis,” you load the questions up with fascistic (hi Hammie! Hi Godwin!) controlling preconceptions to elicit preset responses.

Take: “Do you think Second Life should be treated more like a country where users have democratic rights over LL’s policy, or more like a company where LL exercises their own control over their policy?”

Simply DRIPPING from this so called “neutral question” to serve as a “party identifier” is a judgement that there are users stupid enough to believe they are in a “democracy” and have “rights over LL” in some kind of exclusive way. You set them up as chumps. Furthermore, you build into it the idea that this is a fool’s errand — you can’t have an efficient platform y

But that’s not it at all. Let me try to see if you can understand the more subtle and fine-tuned concept it is.

There are such things as *civilized norms* and *the rule of law*. If *everyone* lives UNDER them then no one has something OVER somebody else. If the game company and the players BOTH subscribe to this HIGHER concept called “rule of law” and “the civilized norms” then ALL can get along better and live in better harmony. In this model, both the company and the players work together to identify the law, or the “rule set” to get all tekkie-jargon about it, UNDER WHICH they will ALL live. That means that the game company agrees to be bound by certain higher principles, certain standards of behaviour that it will adhere to, not functioning as an arbitrary and lawless tyrant. In this model, players or users like us can reasonably ask the company to join them in a model of a liberal democratic construct. The company decides: we just a business and these are just our customers, with no rights? Or are we going to put our money where our mouth is and live under the rule of law and behaviour according to principles?

In the concept of “LL exercises their own control over their policy.” you utterly overlook the fact that LL isn’t just a company. It’s a realm called Second Life existing on 1000 servers where people live and work. They are in a shared project here where the customers, especialy those who create content or pay tier, have a large stake in the virtual world. A virtual world acquires different characteristics than just “a company” and “the customers”. It’s not utopian to demand that those creating virtual worlds take more accountability for their actions in it; it’s just rational and common sense liberal democracy. The idea that it lessons business success, or harms the product or something is still — they can handle it, and already do handle it LOL.

There’s nobody more protective of the statist, abusive LL model, with SL as merely a corporate mirage hanging off the company, than these FIC types who in fact dream of getting jobs in such a company without democratic accountability so they can take power over other people. Bleh to them.

Now, let’s come to your next “analytical tool,” also front-loaded with a set-up, implying that griefers, terrorists, grid-crashers lurk everywhere if there is *loss of control*.

“Do you think Linden Lab should exercise a high degree of control over the populace when it comes to dicipline, or a low degree of control?”

Placing the question this way makes it seem like “control” is something that can be owned only by the virtual world spawner, and not by the virtual world partners. But as the world gets bigger, they simply have to let go and establish a set of democratic norms of governance that people can ascribe to. They might have to have a constitutional assembly. They might have something simpler than that by disseminating 6 good practices like “never build right on the property line” or something. But the point is, they can reliquish some of their control — control they don’t exercise effectively on every sim — and have local governance that by creating viable and civilized life on sims can help repel griefing, minimize building harassment, etc.

It’s sad not much effort has been put into this for 2 years — the way the sims were laid out might have even been literally constructed differently to make lives better. They might have created town squares or interesting builds here and there instead of wasting thousands of hours and prim of manpower and meterage on building these dumb macadam roads that serve no purpose in a world where people can fly and the cars don’t work.

There are a lot of undecided or indifferent, but one thing is for certain: they will never be content to answer these questions in the way you’ve set them up with a precooked reply in bias of your own party.

Prokofy Neva

Nov 10th, 2005

Aimee, I’m hearing more and more from people commenting on all these posts that you aspire to some sort of queen-like role in SL, and possibly the Metaverse.

Do you? What *are* your own personal political ambitions?

Aimee Weber

Nov 10th, 2005

I’m unaware of any such talk of these ambition. Are you confusing me with a prom queen again?

marilyn murphy

Nov 11th, 2005

lol. i like aimee. shes always been a joy to know.

my bottom line on all of this, and i get to have one too, since several others expound at length ad nauseum, has always been..

LL is a company, and needs to show a profit at some point or lights out. during a town hall meeting back in 03 when most of sl could actually attend one event in one sim, i asked phillip how sl could possibly survive with such a small paying user base. now in 05 i am wondering the same thing. i play wow, now and then and see that their subscriber base is in the millions. if you do the math, and assume the staff at LL is making anything close to a decent salary…theres a problem.

i dont know what LL is actually planning. what its real goal is. handing out virtually free accounts has always been a staple. this makes no sense on their books. something else may be going on. a user base funding of the business does not really seem to be the goal. a couple of wild guesses is the best i can come up with but the biggest one is, to develop the software to the point where they can sell it to a major entity with deep pockets who can then create this much talked about metaverse.

at any rate. all this talk, and angst about whose ox is getting gored and how. who is favored and who is left out. its all sort of meaningless except to a small group who finds meaning in it. uhmmm.. and i know that that is important to these people in their own way. just as important as that individual who wants to create art in sl. or that individual who wants to run a business in sl. every endeavor we turn our hand to in sl is that endeavor we want to do most. so those who wish to concern themselves about how and who in the user base can affect LL policy is their own piece of the sl pie. its an art form in itself i am thinking. sort of a political art?

bottom line. sorry it took so long to get here: LL is going to do that which it has to do to show a profit some day. LL is not going to give a damn what the user base is doing or thinking when that day arrives. therefore, find that part of the sl pie that you like and enjoy and enjoy it. if that means party all the time, or work all the time, or debate all the time or a bit of each, then enjoy.

Prokofy Neva

Nov 11th, 2005

No, Aimee, I’m just reciting what people have IM’d to me, because it’s beginning to be obvious. Oh, and could you confirm or deny that you are Philip Rosedale’s blood kin? This is another rumour making the rounds now.

Aimee Weber

Nov 11th, 2005

I thought the rumor was that I had a contract with Linden Lab. You really sling every baseless accusation at me just to see if it sticks, don’t you? Even a broken clock is right two times a day so you’re sure to stumble across something EVENTUALLY, right?

The truth is, I’m Philips sister. And wife. Ulrika is having our baby for us. That baby will be the Prince of the Metaverse (Because I’m The Queen). Pass that on in third period

Marilyn, you are an SL treasure. I cannot fault anything you just said.

whatever

Nov 11th, 2005

I don’t know anyone who considers aimee to be any kind of SL queen there prok. It’s not like she has produced anything for quite some time, and what she has produced is sub par in quality as far as clothing goes. The only thing I have seen her be good at is acting all high and mighty. Her supposed kind, helpful facade got old pretty quick. People will see eventually.

Prokofy Neva

Nov 11th, 2005

marilyn, I’m curious as to why you don’t think this isn’t already a user-sponsored world. Quite a few of us pay quite a lot of tier.

And surely you can see that this company’s product isn’t just software, but is this realm, this country, this thing called Second Life. That is the product. It’s a world. It’s not just bells and whistles hanging off the Internet. That world is its product, and that’s the thing they need to make sure succeeds, something that is a cross between a game and a civics lesson as Information World called it in the article linked on the SL front page now.

All this pragmatic and social-Darwinist talk about how it’s a company, a business, take your knocks, stop your whining, etc. loses sight of the fact that they make a fragile and wonderful gossamer product called a virtual world. That, and not the software, is the product. They have to take care not to puncture that. And not puncturing this gossamer world involves letting users not only create it and create on it, but participate in its governance.

LL appears to know, better than all you virtual social Darwinists and ruthless biznoteers that they have a product called a world, that they need to sustain, it’s not just some mechanical “platform” that tekkies can endlessly fuss over. 90 percent of the other customers bought not their ability to tinker and ooh and ah over tekkie stuff, but their ability to live and work and love in a world.

I agree that they are likely to sell it off. They might sell off the blingy bits to Sony or EA and keep the edu-grid stuff to tinker with on their own.

Prokofy Neva

Nov 11th, 2005

whatever, your circle is small and cramped. Many have commented on to me about their awareness of Aimee’s ambitions. At least you got the other bits right though — according to what people tell me. I personally don’t understand fashion and can’t tell the difference between a lot of this stuff.

Well, Aimee, if you’re discounting that you have a contract to have your face appear 5 times, and be featured in Hamlet columns, and if you’re not confirming the rumour that you’re Philip’s blood kin then…how do you explain it?

Let’s hear it in your own words.

Also, let here a positivist, logical statement of the sort:

“No, I do not have a contract.”
“No, I do not have any blood relationship to Philip Linden.”
“No, I don’t wish to rule the Metaverse or serve in public office.”

We haven’t heard any denials like that, and we’ve only seen silly ducks and covers.

Aimee Weber

Nov 11th, 2005

Whatever, thanks for your interest in my clothing line. Let me address some of your concerns:

Naturally I place more weight on my sales than anonymous comments on third party sites when it comes to measuring my performance.

I have indeed taken a sabbatical from making new clothing, and the reason is because I am learning new tools! I have been ramping up on Maya Cloth which features solvers that generate natural draping effects and breathtaking fabric renders. It has been a LOT of hard work, but so far the results are stunning. I will be starting work on the new line around January.

As for being “high and mighty” I don’t know how to defend against that one. If anybody is concerned about my suspected character flaws, they should simply get to know me I am profoundly social and rarely find people in SL that I don’t like.

Hope this helps.

Aimee Weber

Nov 11th, 2005

I think I recognize this gussing game from Christmas!

Is it a Barbie? no.
Is is a Pony? no.
Is it a choo choo? no.
Is it a new dress? no.
Is it a new story book? no.
Is it a Strawberry Shortcake Lunchbox? … UH… I can’t answer that.

AH HA!

I would entertain the idea of indulging you, Prok, if after a solid denial of your accusations you would follow up with:

“Oh. Sorry Aimee. I was wrong about you. I will back off.”

Naturally that one isn’t in the cards because this has nothing to do with the aforementioned questions. It has to do with your year long campaign to bash me AT EVERY TURN. Your rumors are all you have against me and as old ones are discredited new ones are generated. Don’t expect me to play.

Cocoanut

Nov 11th, 2005

My goodness!

coco

Prokofy Neva

Nov 11th, 2005

Aimee, tsk tsk tsk, given all your persnickety fussiness about accuracy! Ever the seamstress! I haven’t had any year-long campaign because I’ve barely been *in* SL for a year. I first criticized you on the forums in April or May. So there’s been no “year”.

I haven’t made accusations, I’ve asked questions about silly rumours in an effort to put them to bed. And asked for your frank assessment of the website problem.

Aimee Weber

Nov 11th, 2005

Prok, the way you interpret “year” so literally shows your lack of background in literature. Back to studying Thoreau with you!

OH, and since when does something YOU say become a rumor that needs to be put to bed? Spouting something from off the top of your head, or chatting with Coco in IM does not count as a rumor. Well not unless you are TRYING to start a rumor.

No One of Consequence

Nov 12th, 2005

Bottom line:

No matter how you dress the political situation up, the folks that own the server make the rules. Even a liberal and democratically managed environment is subject to the ‘pulling the plug’ veto. Democracy is a farce until you truly own and control the servers, rather than renting and borrowing them.

boo parks

Nov 12th, 2005

anyone wanna join my street gang? we are the political party of assholes. we like to destroy all forms of enrichment and have total chaos at all times. and when we want to have something cool we will buy money and pay a super geek to get it for us. sound cool yeah it does so come on yall and join the asshole gang we are so cool we are cooler than doing cocaine

Prokofy Neva

Nov 12th, 2005

When more than three separate sources tell me a rumour independently, I think I have enough info to ask questions, merely as a chronicler of SL. As for Thoreau, “any fool can make a rule and any fool can mind it”.

Aimee Weber

Nov 12th, 2005

I heard eight highly reliable, well-placed sources that say one of your sources is Coco, and the other two are fabricated.

What do you say to these charges? Will you reveal these sources once and for all so we can put these rumors to bed?

Cocoanut

Nov 12th, 2005

The source wasn’t me, and I am saying so here. You can take me on my word for it.

If you’d like to answer Prok’s questions, about being related to a Linden, or under contract to the Lindens, I will take you on your word for it.

My word is good, and I have no reason to believe yours isn’t also.

coco

marilyn murphy

Nov 12th, 2005

aimee:
i have been the subject of some rather more vicious accusatory lies than this stuff your trying to chase. really, just kinda go on and let them go on and how u lead ur life tells more about you than any of this stuff. accusations cant define you.
oh yeah, im not going to mention the subject but we talked once before when you did this sort of thing, remember?
(there, now do i get my contract with your brother or not?? isnt this finally enuff?)