Gor Is Not a Cult
by Pixeleen Mistral on 30/11/06 at 9:03 pm
[editor’s note: Our Gorean-theme week continues with a Gorean slave's rebuttal of Artemis Fate's 'Problem's of Gor' series.]
by Tara Reardon
Artemis Fate’s statement regarding Gor being a cult is entirely incorrect. Do you have first hand experience in a cult? Do you understand how they work? My guess is that you don’t quite get it.
I am a Gorean slave on Second Life and submissive in real life. I understand cults very well. I was a Scientologist in the early 1990′s. When I read your article, your points reflected that cult and not Gor. My Gorean experience is healthy. I am surrounded by people who I love deeply and who love me. My cult experience was different. We were in it for a cause, not to forge healthy relationships.
As a Scientologist, I was expected to give up everything important to me personally in order to help the cause. I left my job and went to work for a local Scientology organization for just about no pay. I nearly sacrificed my relationship with my parents. I moved to Hollywood to take classes and was put up in a cockroach infested apartment. I had no money. I was only allowed to eat rice and beans unless my home organization sent money for food. I had no transportation, other than the shoes on my feet. I relied upon the generosity and concern of my family to keep me afloat. But, hey, I was second in command of my local Scientology organization and I was 22 years old and helping to change the world. Or so they led me to believe. I left there after a year, having learned a very valuable lesson.
As a Gorean slave, I am surrounded by people who truly care about my well being. Do my Master or Mistress try to control my real life? No. But they do care about me, beyond my avatar. Does my Master tell me who I can and cannot speak with in Second Life? No, but he does care about my happiness and doesn’t like to see anyone hassle me. Does he take my money? No, he respects that I have my own business in Second Life and encourages me. Are there rules? Of course there are, but they’re all pretty much based on common sense. Am I expected to serve them? Well, yes, but my own desire to serve and please two people I genuinely care about is more of a driving force in that. I have found two people with whom I have forged strong connections. They are integral parts of my life and I care deeply for them. This is unhealthy how?
So tell me… how can you even compare Gor to a cult? I’ve got experience in both. I can guarantee you that Gor done properly is not a cult and it is not dangerous. It can be a wonderfully empowering experience for both Master and slave.
sherita
Mar 24th, 2007
no its not a cult its just plain retarded
Slip Barrett
Mar 28th, 2007
I’ve been in gorean ROLEPLAY for 10 years online.
So, people here are defining Gor as a cult. If that’s the case, then Vampire, Cyberpunk, Capture Roleplay, Underworld, Midian City, Toxian City…ALL CULTS. Same with Wyrms, same with Second Earth, and any other DnD. Have any of you folks ever played DnD? That would make you cultists too, in your definition.
The Gorean Sims in SL are based off of BOOKS. Lord of the Rings are books. The difference between Lord of the Rings and Gor is the realm. One may have more volumes, but it doesn’t matter.
Then, people have decided to roleplay in this created world. Some go as far to call themselves real life goreans or lifestylers which yeah, that goes into the cultist area. If in fact anyone in real life called themself a real life gorean – I guess they shouldn’t be here because Gor does not have computers. And they should probably be arrested for physically assaulting women…or slaves as they call them. But that’s a whole different can of worms.
The point is, if your not in Gor – you don’t understand it, and are no better than conservative book burning Nazi’s that enjoy censorship. We enjoy it, so let us have it in SL. I don’t come into your home and piss on the carpet, so stay out of mine.
Artemis Fate
Mar 28th, 2007
“Some go as far to call themselves real life goreans or lifestylers which yeah, that goes into the cultist area. If in fact anyone in real life called themself a real life gorean – I guess they shouldn’t be here because Gor does not have computers. And they should probably be arrested for physically assaulting women…or slaves as they call them. But that’s a whole different can of worms.”
The “gor as a cult” statement has always been directed towards lifestylers not roleplayers. I can understand roleplay, and the important thing is having that division between “reality” and “fantasy”. What makes all those you listed above not a cult.
Slip
Apr 24th, 2007
Artemis – Right, and that is my point. There is no such thing as lifestylers. There are those who THINK they are lifestylers. But they are in fact, playing a role. Gor does not exist, and neither does Goreans. Those who take on the role of being a “Real Gorean”, is in fact just a live roleplayer. Those that live in the BDSM lifestyle on the other hand is a different aspect.
Your talking about the division between reality and fantasy. Gor or goreans are not reality, regardless which way you spin it.
Slip
Apr 24th, 2007
Artemis – Right, and that is my point. There is no such thing as lifestylers. There are those who THINK they are lifestylers. But they are in fact, playing a role. Gor does not exist, and neither does Goreans. Those who take on the role of being a “Real Gorean”, is in fact just a live roleplayer. Those that live in the BDSM lifestyle on the other hand is a different aspect.
Your talking about the division between reality and fantasy. Gor or goreans are not reality, regardless which way you spin it.
Vlad Drumheller
Apr 25th, 2007
I think the moral of the story here is if you Don’t like Gor…shut up & let those who do get on with it…no one cares if you’re personal opinion of Gor is that “it sucks” or whatever…everyone’s entitled to their opinions, but at the end of the day Gor is done by fully consenting adults, and no one is doing anything wrong….so what is the issue here?
Just another excuse for the “Oh dear, someone’s having fun in a way I don’t approve of” brigade to bitch about something the don’t understand.
Mk XIII
May 24th, 2007
Hmm the crux of Tara’s argument seems to be “I do Gor and it’s not a cult… and I should know cos I am the sort of person who does cults”.
Vlad – nothing wrong with consenting adults having fun! But when 20-stone guys who live with their mothers start calling themselves ‘Master Thunderhammer of the Wu Tan Klan’ or whatever, there’s nothing wrong with the rest of us laughing at them either.
Lia
Jun 11th, 2007
Gor isn’t a cult. I can leave Gor without consequence. It’s all in-character. I may play Gor and then spend some time at a sandbox or in other sims. Gor is not a cult because it is a decision, a choice made by the person to take control or be controlled. You can leave Gor. Cults brainwash people. Cults endanger people’s lives. Gor does not, because goreans are not idiots. All they’re tryin to do is get a deeper perspective of a different kind of love.
And all you furries stop QQing, they don’t hate you, you’re just mad because they ask you to take the fursuits off in their dreams so people don’t get distracted by the herd of elephants trampling across their courtyards. It’s RP. Don’t like it? What else is new.
johnny6200
Jul 12th, 2007
I’ve had some experience with Gor, having roleplayed as a Free and a thrall (male slave). I’m out now and intend to stay out. Gorean chat sites are both a pleasure and a horror to be in. At first they appear to be well ordered. A Free is served by slaves who get Him drinks (or other things) that He requests. As long as He shows “Honor” and “Respect” to the Master or Mistress of the house, everything seems to move along well. But get deeper into it and you discover the dark side. Slaves can be tortured and killed at the whim of their Masters. “Anything that happens to a slave in Gor happens because a Free wills it”. “A Man’s freedom to swing is regulated by the swords of others.” “A Free Woman is only free at the behest of a Man”. Honor is what the individual makes of it, which basically means that anybody can do anything. Some slave girls have been seriously damaged by the Honorable Dishonorable.
I dunno. I don’t know why people who lives in a Free society would want to be Masters or slaves. I thought we fought a civil war to end all that. But the point that Gor is a culture not a cult is well taken, but the question is: the fact that you can go online and play at being a slave (and maybe tortured or killed electonically) might not be so pleasant on a real planet in a real culture where you have no rights and the same thing could be done.
For real.
Would you be defending such a culture if it were indeed real, and not fantasy? Would you even be alive long enough to defend it? (And, by the way, I’m aware that people are indeed playing this out in real life…but hopefully not taking it to its logical conclusion).
johnny6200
Jul 12th, 2007
Gor is in reality a philosophy of life. It’s why the Norman novels have survived all the other fantasy stuff that Ballantine and DAW put out in the 60′s and 70′s.
Nobody today is role playing worlds postulated by Alan Dean Akers (Kregen), or even Edgar Rice Burroughs (Mars, Venus, Pellucidar).
John Norman’s philosophy caused his books to survive in spite of being universally banned, and takes Gorean chat rooms well beyond role play. As such, it needs to be seriously confronted and questioned. And, as such, those espousing it need to seriously consider its logical and natural conclusions — or consequences.
Gorean philosophy and culture are what makes online Gor real. Considering yourself to be “only roleplaying” is a matter of self deception. You’ve chosen to live, at least for a time, in a culture with it’s own societal structure, protocols, foods, drinks, animals, laws, and philosophy.
I think Gorean philosophy demands more than just a part time involvement. In Norman’s conception, Gor was a planet located on the other side of the sun, divorced from the Earth law and philosophies. If you were “acquired” and transported there (by the Priest Kings) the only way you could return was at the will of the Priest Kings, not your own.
To think that as either “Free” or “slave” you are able to transport yourself back and forth between Gor and Earth at your own whim is fundamentally a non-Gorean belief in and of itself. Once given to Gor, you follow its rules until you die naturally or are killed. The latter is more likely to occur than the former.
Question: If somebody bought an island in the South Pacific, divided it into regions corresponding to the map of Gor, and invited Goreans to live there according the Gorean philosophy and the subculture they have adopted (and gave them Gorean weapons), how long would it take for them to completely kill each other off?
Sarkoja
Oct 11th, 2007
johnny6200, I role-play Barsoom (Edgar Rice Burroughs).
Barsoom role-play is alive and well.
Mariah
Feb 15th, 2008
tis easy to tell someone who and what they are or are not, tis easy to tell someone that their believes are a cult or not, a culture or a game of the mind, it should also be easy to accept eachothers believes in second life as we try to do in real life. Lets try that instead of telling others what or how you think about other peoples believe..
Best to remember that the writer of the Gorean Novels “John Norman” took the slavery that happened in real life and wrote about that in his novels, so its a culture, a set of long gone cultures mixed together, i see nothing wrong with that, to each their own believes, i can say with pride, i am Gorean, i am a slavegirl..
In game we all try to go by the book, but i also see that a lot of people twist the books to their liking, so i think Gor is different for a lot of us, even if we know the books or not, its their believes, hence why i come back to this one point..
Accept the people as you want to be accepted by others.. accept their ways they are in Second life so you will be accepted.. its the believes or roleplay they want to do on second life as you want to do your “roleplay”
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Lisaa
Jul 19th, 2011
Scary enough, and I can tell you from my own experience, there ARE people who take the “philosophy” behind Gor for real. There seem to be quite a few who purposefully manipulate young, mentally unstable girls that have no knowledge of Gor, BDSM or anything of the like (yet – yay!). These people simply discard SSC, because to them, it is not needed. It can all be explained biologically, right? Who needs a girl that consciously makes the decision?
Gor as a *roleplay* might be fun, but don’t overlook the misogynic and disgusting messages in Norman’s books – especially in “Imaginative Sex” – because there actually ARE people who believe in it and use it to HARM others, to abuse. And, no matter how much you WANT to overlook this: it’s all right there. Written in these books. A+ instructions on “how to ruin someone’s life” for nutheads.
Nelson Jenkins
Jul 19th, 2011
@ Lisaa
3 years after the last non-spam comment?
I’ll have to defer to the judges, but I believe that is a world record.
Lisaa
Jul 19th, 2011
@Nelson Jenkins
Great! What did I win? A cookie?
Yep
Jul 19th, 2011
sherita
“no its not a cult its just plain retarded”
I agree, only someone with low self esteem would even think about being involved with gor.
Yep
Jul 19th, 2011
Go getem Tiger
Yep
Jul 19th, 2011
“Vlad – nothing wrong with consenting adults having fun! But when 20-stone guys who live with their mothers start calling themselves ‘Master Thunderhammer of the Wu Tan Klan’ or whatever, there’s nothing wrong with the rest of us laughing at them either.”
Oh I know all that you can do is shake your head and laugh at the goreans.
paul
Jul 19th, 2011
First they made fun of and tried to ban the Goreans,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a gorean
Then they made fun of and tried to ban the BDSM’ers,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a BDSM’er.
Then they made fun of and tried to ban the Furries,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Furry.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Yep
Jul 19th, 2011
LOL I bet the ADL is shifting in their seats seeing you compare the jews to the goreans. I love it
paul
Jul 19th, 2011
I am glad you love it.
The ADL fights against blind hatred that dehumanizes other groups of people based on prejudice. Second life is supposed to be a fantasy world where it is safe to express things about yourself that might not be safe in the real world. Despite that, sl is filled with blind prejudice against various groups: goreans, bdsm’ers, furries, transgendered people etc. And here in this forum goreans are called a called a cult, ‘retarded’, and misogynistic, and furries are called ‘furfags’ So much for feeling safe.
The point of the original poem was that it is easy to dismiss prejudice when it is aimed at someone else, but that does not mean the same kind of hatred and prejudiced will not be aimed at you, just for being the person you are.