The Problems of Gor – Part 1
by Pixeleen Mistral on 27/11/06 at 6:06 pm
Philosophy, Society, Conditioning
[editors note: Our Gorean-themed week continues with an abridged version of a notecard written by Artemis Fate -- contact Artemis for a complete copy of the 'Problems of Gor'.]
by Artemis Fate
Gor is an alternate-world detailed in John Norman’s “Chronicles of Gor”, a twenty-six novel series that combines philosophy and erotica with science-fiction. It is a highly detailed setting in terms of wildlife and customs, borrowing from various ancient cultures such as the Greek, Native American and Viking cultures. Advanced technology is present, but the life of the humans on the planet remain otherwise primitive to the modern day. Followers of the philosophies and lifestyle outlined in the books are called Goreans.
Gor has been a presence online for quite some time, but their exposure has been limited to places such as Usenet and private IRC channels. However, the Gorean culture has shifted towards more open communities. Many people were not aware of Gor until joining visual chat rooms such as the Palace, Active Worlds, and Second Life.
This has not been met without problems. It has been widely believed that Active Worlds was ‘taken over’ by Goreans. This came to pass as many Goreans were placed in charge of the community as ‘Peacekeepers’, the game masters of Active Worlds. Many reports of unfair treatment, attacks on criticism and strong promotion of Gor in the beginner areas have been made.
When it comes to Second Life, Gor first became widely known when the sim Port Kar went public in the spring of 2005. However, the Gorean community have been around for quite some time along the mainland and in private islands. There are now more than a hundred public Gorean locations in Second Life.
Gor Philosophy
“Strong men simply need women. This will never be understood by weak men. A strong man needs a woman at his feet, who is truly his. Anything else is less than his fulfillment. When a man has once eaten the meat of the gods he will never again chew on the straw of fools.”
– Explorers of Gor, page 12
Gorean philosophy is split between what is detailed in the books and the more common standards of the community. The main difference lies in that the books are not strictly sexual. The Master/Slave relationship is not the primary focus as most of the detail is given to the society of Gor at large.
Beyond defining the Master/Slave relationship, the books have made commentary on a somewhat diverse range of topics. These topics have included genetic superiority, the nature of citizenship and freedom and war, among other things. An anonymous author commented on that the stances taken on these kind of subjects as being remarkably similar to those of Hitler’s in Mein Kampf. As a result, some have classified Gorean philosophy as a form of nazism.
This is a key contrast as the Gorean community has placed its focus on the Master/Slave relationship as its main purpose and sometimes its only purpose.
Therefore we get into the quote above as a main aspect of Gorean community philosophy: Man wishes to dominate a woman and a woman wants to be dominated by a man. If a woman does not, she is weak. All women are inferior to men and can only be happy being owned by a man.
Gor Society
Generally, Gorean society in SL is made up as a series of strict rules. Some have involved themselves because these rules seem similar to heavy roleplay. To many roleplayers in Second Life, this is the only place to roleplay because few other communities exist for it.
Not only are the rules strict, but the punishments are severe. Failure to follow the rules of their society may result in being banned from the sim to having your character executed. Execution will also result in a banning from the sim..
In addition to rules and punishment, the Goreans run a slave market. The prices of slaves depend on how well ‘trained’ the slave is. Typically this can range from L$2000 to L$20,000, which is roughly $8 to $80 USD. Of course, there are cases where a slave may go for a higher price.
A man who is displeased by his slave will punish her her severely. This may take the form of harsh beatings or by outright killing her. Gorean executions can even take on the form of sexual torture in more extreme cases. A slave who tries to run away is pursued and often times eaten by a monster used for hunting.
Conditioning
As to be expected, the relationship dependency is skewed. Men are encouraged to treat their slaves like objects and women encouraged to give everything they have to men. This leads to problems when a Master no longer feels that his slave is of any use. A Master will simply sell the girl to someone else and get the money, he developed no huge relationship to the girl as much as you have a relationship with your car.
The girl on the other hand, is taught to be dependent and totally in love with her Master. To be sold to another so is a form of rejection. This sort of sting can be more mild, with the girl a little depressed at each time she’s traded off. However, some have gone into a full breakdown and have inflicted pain on themselves or others. While not every slave is sold without consent, those that have been will usually have a story that falls between these reactions.
This sort of dependency is only the surface of what conditioning Gorean slaves can be put through. To most starting out in Gor, it’s an innocent fantasy world of roleplay. Many would not even consider there being any possible mind conditioning or thought reform occurring. This is something that can and will be exploited.
Doublethink and Repetition
“Freedom permits a woman to live without a man. Slavery makes a woman need a mans touch… Slavery, of course, is the surest path by means of which a woman can discover her femininity. The paradox of the collar is the freedom which a woman experiences in at last finding herself, and becoming herself.”
– Magicians of Gor, page 160
“The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated again and again.”
– Adolf Hitler
George Orwell’s defined the term ‘doublethink’ in his novel 1984. Doublethink is the power of accepting two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously. A popular doublethink slogan in his book is “Freedom is slavery, war is peace”.
For some slave girls in Gor communities, John Norman’s books are mandatory readings. Each book has the repeated theme that women are naturally slaves to men. The moral of every story is that neither men nor women can be happy unless they follow this nature. This is the big lie that is repeated again and again.
They state that “Slavery is freedom”. This is the direct flip of Orwell’s quote “Freedom is slavery”. As stated above, this is repeated throughout the books and written in as persuasive and romantic of a matter as possible. The intended goal of this mandatory reading is to drill home this sort of doublethink until you have a person honestly believing that “slavery is freedom”. This is an exceptionally effective form of control.
Seven Tactics of ‘Coercive Persuasion’
For a more professional look at this sort of conditioning, Dr. Margaret Singer has written an excellent piece on ‘coercive persuasion’. For the sake of simplicity, it’s best if the paper is summarized here. ‘Coercive persuasion’ is a method of slowly manipulating the way a person thinks and feels. It doesn’t happen over night and all seven tactics do not need to be used. But, in time, a person exposed to these tactics can be influenced and conditioned.
The seven tactics she’s outlined can be summarized as:
1. ‘Softening Up’ – First a victim is prepared by focusing them on REPEATED activities, ideas or senses. This is to make the person more receptive to further suggestion.
2. ‘Social support’ – By using rewards and punishments, the victim is separated from their friends and family who are not part of the group. Being part of the group is rewarded, spending time outside of it is punished. Making a person reliant upon the group for money and other needs helps this immensely.
3. ‘Censorship’ – Rules are put in place where certain thoughts are not allowed to be expressed. What can be said to an outsider from the group is also controlled, as is communication in general. Usually a group will come up with its own ‘language’ for describing things.
4. ‘Peer pressure’ – The group makes a constant, firm effort to convince a person to rethink their own beliefs and their past life. The victim is made to believe their past way of life is wrong and that they must fit into the group.
5. ‘Low self-esteem’ – The group seeks ways of breaking a person’s self-confidence and faith in their own judgement. The idea is to make a person not wish to act on their own and instead be guided by the group.
6. ‘Non-violent punishment’ – Anything from intense humiliation to loss of privilege, social isolation, loss of status, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques. This is all done to make the person afraid of disobeying.
7. ‘Threats’ – A victim is lead to believe that failing to fit into the group will mean terrible things. Not just punishment mentioned in tactic six, but things such as mental illness, drug habits, being poor and homeless, a miserable love life and general unhappiness.
– TO BE CONTINUED –
Prokofy Neva
Nov 27th, 2006
Excellent summary, and pointing up many of the worrisome features of Gor that make it like a cult, if not a cult outright.
The constant throwing of people off balance, making everyone who questions or criticizes to be “in the wrong” because they can “just never understand it all” because of all the arcane faces and “you just have to experience it” means that the Gorean can always be in the right and put you in the wrong vis-a-vis their own cult.
Come to think of it, many of these techniques are typical of SL itself in the way the Lindens deal with us and the way the forums are run and the group-think enforced by oldbies.
Ouchquack
Nov 28th, 2006
I am very impressed with this argument, but I have a major problem that undermines all of it.
The guys who are into Gorean roleplay are all too moronic to put in place and execute a diabolical plan on this order.
They’re just a bunch of guys who can’t get women in the real world, and they’ve found a way to attract compliant women online. No harm, no foul. I say ‘more power to them.’
I just wish they would keep to their Gorean sims and stop mixing with regular people while engaged in their role play. Its offensive to nearly everyone else, and they should show some respect.
Artemis Fate
Nov 28th, 2006
“The guys who are into Gorean roleplay are all too moronic to put in place and execute a diabolical plan on this order.”
For the most part I agree and I address it somewhere in the notecard (maybe not just in this particular section) that I think in the effort to copy what they read in the book or online, they’ve rather unknowingly practice some or all of these tactics rather than diabolically using it for their own purposes. This somewhat makes it more dangerous since they don’t even realize what they do.
Nacon
Nov 28th, 2006
It is a cult, you fool.
…and it’s the most dumbest cult ever seen to date, in between KKK and Satan cults on my list.
When one gorean male says hello to me, I’ll be smashing him down with his own slaves, no excuse. I don’t care how big his slave’s breasts are.
And I’m wondering why are you writing this report? You’re only spreading the fact out to more people who might be dumb enough to be fully interested in it. (..and those who are reading and is interested in that cult, you are a retard.)
Prokofy Neva
Nov 28th, 2006
Oh, no, Ouchquack, never estimate the power of the weak and unable to get women in RL to concoct really vindictive and destructive cults. Remember all those little guys out there who got beat up in the schoolyard, and who also often lost their fathers, whether Stalin or Hitler or Turkmenbashi or even the “lighter” versions like Lukashenka and Putin.
I’m waiting to see if this thread gets as long as contentious as the infamous Gor threads of the old Alphaville Herald.
Tad McConachie
Nov 28th, 2006
Of all the wondrous things in SL, the Goreans and their related sims are the least interesting to me. The fact that there are so many master/slave and other gorean related merchandise indicates to me that the population of SL is still very low. In time, as more people come into the meta-verse we’ll see less and less of them as they fade into the tiny minority that they should represent.
So long as their play-time remains consensual for all parties, I don’t have a problem with their existence in SL, but I feel like they get way too much exposure.
Chavo Polonsky
Nov 28th, 2006
“Remember all those little guys out there who got beat up in the schoolyard, and who also often lost their fathers, whether Stalin or Hitler or Turkmenbashi or even the ‘lighter’ versions like Lukashenka and Putin.”
Or Clinton or Gingrich. Goreans in the White House or Congress would certainly make the Foley affair seem quite quaint….
Chavo
Artemis Fate
Nov 28th, 2006
I have here in my hand a list of 205 people that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Gorean Party, and who, nevertheless, are still working and shaping the policy of the State Department.
Lordfly Digeridoo
Nov 28th, 2006
This is an excellent summary of why I also find Gor really, really bothersome. Holy crap, I’m agreeing with Prokofy. Stop the presses!
Anyways, can’t wait for part two…
Raddick Szymborska
Nov 28th, 2006
Mean old hardcore Gorean Master here. I have been playing in SL since June of 2006, and started playing in gorean sims since July 2006. I read the books as a teen, and so had a head start when it came to integrating in gorean society in SL.
I was asked to respond to Artemis’ notecard, and have spent some time thinking about how to do. This is as appropriate a forum as any, so:
Gor is not a cult; it is a culture. Some people even cross over from the fiction that it is, and choose to live a lifestyle based on the Master-slave model. Arte asserts that Goreans use cult-like conditioning methods to swell our ranks, and therefore, Gor is a cult, is wrong in my experience. It may be there is a very small percentage of people who are active in the game, who are trying to lure unsuspecting women to real life servitude. When I say a small percentage, I wish to emphasize that in this case, if there are 500 active gorean players, maybe 3 people are inclined that way. The same could be argued for people who play in the numerous clubs in SL, with its dancers and escorts. I have no numbers to back this up, only my experience as an active member of the community.
The use of ‘conditioning’ to bring someone around to your own point of view is not new, nor is it the exclusive domain of cults. Television commercials employ these methods all the time; so do football coaches. Arte implies that all goreans use these methods, which she enumerated, in a concerted effort to sucker people into the society. This is not so.
Gorean roleplay is harsh. This is a feature, not a bug. I come to Gor to roleplay like Ghengis Khan, not Miss Manners. Note that I *roleplay*, and that the character I am in game is not the person I am in real life. I am aware of the distinction, and have no problem with that. But, as a gorean, I want to RP with other goreans, and I don’t want to spend every day explaining the culture to new people. So, when I encounter new people, I hand them a notecard with the basics and send them on their way.
I find Arte’s writing to be inflammatory without really backing up her assertions with fact, or even much convincing argument. For instance:
Beyond defining the Master/Slave relationship, the books have made commentary on a somewhat diverse range of topics. These topics have included genetic superiority, the nature of citizenship and freedom and war, among other things. An anonymous author commented on that the stances taken on these kind of subjects as being remarkably similar to those of Hitler’s in Mein Kampf. As a result, some have classified Gorean philosophy as a form of nazism.
This looks like a smear, to me. Drawing a similarity between gorean philosophy and Nazism is as preposterous as saying that the Democratic Party’s planks are similar to those of the Communist Party, therefore Democrats are really Communists.
Artemis has convinced herself that Gor is a cult, so I suspect that there will be little use picking apart this article on the strength of its merits, or lack thereof. And, I find comments from the peanut gallery that gorean men can’t get women in real life to be insulting, ill-informed, and uncalled for.
This barbarian calls for civil discourse. Be well.
Artemis Fate
Nov 28th, 2006
Thanks for giving actual argumentative points, Raddick.
I’d like to clarify a few things in your post however:
1.) I don’t actually believe Gor is a full-blown cult, since John Norman did not take the reigns as a enthusiastic leader (and in fact, is a detractor of gorean lifestyle according to his new book forewords somewhat ironically), it cannot be considered a cult since it has no leader. I call it “cult-like”. However, it does derive entirely from one source, so it cannot be considered a lifestyle either, since no lifestyle i’ve ever heard of, and correct me if i’m wrong, derives entirely from one series of novels from one author. These are more religious aspects than anything, which in a small sense, would be commonly known as a cult.
2.)I do not believe all goreans use these conditioning tactics, and I believe and even smaller amount of those who do (probably that 3 out of 500) use them knowingly. My card is really addressed to a sliver of goreans who refer to themselves as lifestylers, and attempt to integrate gor and gorean customs into their real life. Outside of this, I think Roleplay gor for the most part can be operated fine as long as the distinction of roleplay and real life are recognized. I’m afraid that, when this notecard I wrote was split up into pieces, some core parts of my argument and establishment of my beliefs were lost until the next installment is placed.
3.) I agree, that nazi part does sound a lot like a smear. However, when this article was published, they removed the source I had stuck in the notecard, which was rather critical to that line of reasoning. I’m afraid without the source that it falls victim to Godwin’s law. This source I had found from another site in the notecard which made a compelling arguement with both quotes from gor novels and figurehead gor community philosopher writers compared to Mein Kampf and the nazi parties political ideals.
This is the source for that insinuation: http://gornz.tripod.com/
Really, it’s better to read this in world, since in the notecard, I included other notecards that were copied from websites and such as sources for many of my opinions and beliefs.
me
Nov 29th, 2006
Good article – though I wondered why a source wasnt given regarding Gorean philosophy as a form of nazism. I am glad I read the source – as it is convincing.
Artemis Fate
Nov 29th, 2006
There’s actually a few sources and additional information that was left out of this particular incarnation.
If you want to find the full copy, you can either IM me, or pick up one from the vendor at my store in Nexus Prime or Mew (both can be found in my pics) and look on the walls for the vendor. (the Vendor is also, free to copy so if you so choose you can put one up in your own place)
Nacon
Nov 29th, 2006
It IS a cult because people who are in gor crap are mostly clueless about it, thus they believes Gorean crap as good it’s as a cult.
Good for you, Raddick, reading a head start in Gor but that doesn’t help other people who haven’t. What Gor is to you is not a cult, but it’s already a cult in SL because it’s not fully tamed to knowledge, and people are fucking around with it.
Gor had a retarded start, that’s the problem.
Prokofy Neva
Nov 29th, 2006
Oh, it is indeed a cult, as it fits all the signs of cults so well elaborated at http://www.rickross.com — indeed, he just hasn’t caught up with the rapidly-accelerating growth of Gor fed by the Internet and online games. And I’d add the same thing that Madeleine Albright used to say when people complained about her advocacy of women’s rights in the face of practices like bride-burning or stoning to death of alleged adultresses, claiming they were “cultural”. She said, “That not cultural, it’s criminal.” And it is criminal. It would be in most RL countries that aspire to fulfilling the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
To compare conditioning use by cults as something made use of by TVs or coaches is just plain lame. A football coach commands one aspect of your life — the football game. While he may aspire to take over others, like what you eat and how much you sleep, etc., his goal is to prepare you for a game and the practices aren’t destructive either to you as a person or to the game. A TV commercial has an even more limited job, to get you to buy a tube of toothpaste — after that, they’re done, they don’t try to tell you when to go to the bathroom, like Gorean masters do.
Half the cult of Gor is made up of elaborate, aggressive strategies and tactices to justify the odious practice of slavery and the coercive features of making women lesser beings than men.
One of the biggest mistakes people make nowadays is imagining that a cult needs a charismatic and abusive leader. It doesn’t. The modern Internet cults have franchulated this concept, so that you internalize the features of the abusive leader in each and ever master. And of course, in Gor, there are some grand masters lording it over the other masters, too. The Internet has made possible a new, more flexible and more far reaching form of cult — decentralized, flexible cults that more easily claim people because they take different forms and have different featurse of opt-in and leadership levels. They’re still cults as they take over people’s lives and make them lack judgement and awareness about the consequences of their actions.
I think far from staying a minority, Gor’s goal is to get more acceptance from the mainstream, like being mentioned in the Lindens’ inhouse organ, Second Opinion, in a neutral way. Gor is the kind of authoritarian society that emerges to help people adapt to change when it comes at a huge velocity by establishing norms and rituals that are so conservative that they can withstand radical influences — like the change brought about in women’s liberation in the last 50 years, and the changes brought about by the Internet. Gor is the perfect foe to the Lindens because it keeps asserting immersive worlds against their rampant, raging augmentationism — but of course by buying lots of land and making pretty builds and taking care of newbies, they do a chore the Lindens don’t want to do either. They’re perfect for each other.
Proteus Hand
Nov 29th, 2006
We have only reached the tip of the iceberg.
This article screams what I have been ranting at gor for so long.
Apparently Sl’s press finally caught a smell of the stench coming from gor.
humdog
Nov 29th, 2006
i would like to suggest that perhaps the anti-gor people here like prok and artemis are themselves members of a cult — the anti-cult cult. they have a dogma. they have a leader. they have a website. they have a crusade, but unfortunately lack the cool scary clothes and authority of Torquemada, and oh yes. the argument. they don’t have the argument.
Artemis Fate
Nov 29th, 2006
We have a website and a leader?
Nacon
Nov 29th, 2006
Good god, you know what you just sounds like?
Actually, let me point out what I just pick up here. You are a Gor (I’m guessing you are?) and you trying to defend the “lifestyle” or whatever you want to call it, from being known as a cult. Then tried to say we are anti-gor cult… I’m even more confused cause Prok, Artermis and I just happened don’t like gor to ourself, but do we actually meet each other in a tent that was supplied by AN and say “Alright, what’s the plan? Can we destroy them?”
Did we?
No, but we just don’t like your “lifestlye” …whatever it is, and I don’t see you trying to stop your own Gor friend that was trying to tie us along with it. Do you?
Seriously, how hard is it to stop your own Gor friends trying to expand with us? It’s like a rape and you’re kinda just letting that happen because you don’t respects OUR lifestyle. That’s why Gor is a cult. Duh
Artemis Fate
Nov 30th, 2006
Next Anti-cult cult meeting is at 7:00pm Sunday, bring your disgruntled demeanor, AK-47′s, and hats for the silly hat contest.
Either way, gotta love it when they pull the whole flip-flop thing, “Maybe i’m not the horrible space monster, YOU ARE!” aaah…. good times.
Faolan Moonlight
Dec 6th, 2006
A lot of trash talking and trash throwing going on in these posts. I wanted to give my few cents worth on this topic. First and foremost the question “is Gor a cult”
What is a cult?
SECULAR DEFINITION
CULT – From the Latin “cultis” which denotes all that is involved in worship, ritual, emotion, liturgy and attitude. This definition actually denotes what we call denominations and sects and would make all religious movements a cult.
CHRISTIAN DEFINITION
CULT – Any group which deviates from Biblical, orthodox, historical Christianity. e.i. They deny the Deity of Christ; His physical resurrection; His personal and physical return to earth and salvation by FAITH alone.
UNIVERSAL DEFINITION
CULT – Any group which has a pyramid type authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top. The group will claim to be the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Ultimate Reality; Full Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use thought reform or mind control techniques to gain control and keep their members. This definition covers cults within all majopr world religions, along with those cults which have no OBVIOUS religious base such as commercial, educational and psychological cults.
Unlike popular definitions, sociological definitions exclude considerations of harm and abuse and are not used in a pejorative manner.
According to professor Timothy Miller from the University of Kansas, in his 2003 Religious Movements in the United States, during the controversies over the new religious movements in the 1960s, the term “cult” came to mean something sinister, generally used to describe a movement that was at least potentially destructive to its members or to society, or that took advantage of its members and engaged in unethical practices. But he argues that no one yet has been able to define “cult” in a way that enables the term to identify only problematic groups. Miller asserts that the attributes of so-called cults (see cult checklist), as defined by cult opponents, can be found in groups that few would consider cultic, such as Catholic religious orders or many evangelical Protestant churches.
So, as you can see, the term cult is a very broad stroke term. Is Gor a cult… techinically yes. It is a group of people that have a common ideology that differs from mainstream.
Is it a “destructive cult”? not from what I have seen. The people that I have been around, and I have been around Goreans for about 12 years, are very well educated, fully cognizant of their surroundings, and have a sincere personal desire to choose their own style of living. I myself have a Master’s degree, have studied psychology, and socialogy, both that of the United States, and abroad.
That isn’t to say that no one in Gor abuses their status, whether “master or slave”. I have seen both as well, but they are in the vast minority of the general practices and beliefs, and feelings, and the same can be said about any group of people.
The bottom line seems to me that if you don’t like something you have the right not to deal with it, but that doesn’t mean you have the right to demean or denigrate someone who does.
A person could almost turn around all the negative bashing and say that those are methods of mind control by trying to impose feelings of guilt and lesser worth to try and force a person to agree with one point of view…
jot zenovka
Aug 8th, 2007
I’m just a bystander and don’t pretend to know anything about Gorean roleplay, but I wonder at those who don’t roleplay telling those who do…how to play. If you don’t like the rules, don’t go there. Dress up, ballroom dance or hit the casinos and beaches. The Gor notecard I read is explicit in it’s description of non-rules and dangers. I didn’t go there. lol. But neither was I offended simply because I didn’t understand the gameplay. The idea that mature, consenting adults cannot or should not take on gameplay roles because others find them offensive and scary says more about the complainers than it does the Gorean gameplay.
noyeh
Oct 22nd, 2007
As a gorean kajira to a real-time Master. I can attest to the fact that the Gorean Life is not a “cult”. For those of you that don’t know John Norman aka John Lange wrote a serious of novels. And in these novels are a mixture of our different cultures. Just because goreans have a different set of beliefs does not make them a cult or a “Gang”. Rather it makes them more like Americans or Africans or any other nationality. We live as we feel we should live just like the any other culture. We have our cultures as do any nationality does or anyone for that matter. We are not a religion we are not a cult. We are a group of people with our own beliefs. We are not a hate Group We are not the KKK. We are people that willing follow a belief at our freedom and will to do so. Not even the slaves are forced into this. This is a life decision that they have made on their own. Unlike the books We are not “Flown away on ships of acquisitions. We follow a set standard of philosophies that are very easy to understand if your up to date on our own Earth’s historical culture. Unlike the real gor we do not have chattel slavery we have consensual slavery only!!!! Anyone that is choosing to roleplay in Second life as goreans is doing so as consenting adults. At anytime any slave or any Free Person on that list can walk away. Nobody is holding guns to their heads and making them stay. I for one would run if anyone would ever force me into anything in real without my consent and most of the Goreans I know in real would do the same thing. Just because we want something different from you folks does not make us dumb or crazy. I have brains just like anyone else and my Master would expect me to use them.
Wylde Brumby
Oct 30th, 2007
I am reading the Gor novels and I like the idea that John Norman has put forward – The STRONG will naturally dominate the weak.
This when viewed by examining how herds of animals maintain their fitness is the natural order(DOMINANCE and submission). All animals that haven’t been domesticated migrate with the seasons to find quality food. Those that are ill, for whatever reason, struggle to find the quanity of food to fuel their metabolism. The weak members of a herd are more vulnerable to predation, as they don’t have the stamina to escape.
Critics of the gorean lifestyle should buy and read the novels for themselves and come to their own conclusions about whether it is appropriate for them or not.
The current feminist/equality nonsense is more harmful to society than that of Gor. The weak wish to use historically dispised minorities(gays/lesbians)and emotionally vulnerable women to overpower and shame heterosexual males into the closet(covertly bringing POWER and CONTROL over society by the weak). They complain about the PATRIARCHY and claim it enslaves women. Men, when in charge of their own family, negate the need for centralised government (which aspires to absolute tyranny) by maintaining a civil society.
The Single Female Households(SFH)[as opposed to the nuclear family dominated by a man and supported by his wife] aren’t equipped to discipline their offspring and this leads inevitably to whole regions where disrespectful youth cause all manner of mayhem. SFH also justify the welfare state, as they are not self-reliant – perpetuating conditions of real inequality (restricted access to the foundations of a decent livelihood and THE PURSUIT of HAPPINESS).
The Bigger threat is expanding state control and restrictions on true FREEDOM and LIBERTY, rather than Men owning Women. The responsibilities that are yoked on men to provide for and protect their women and children are frequently forgotten.
asiandragon
Dec 23rd, 2007
jot, I totally agree with you, I am far from unintelligent. I know gor is not a cult and in some manner I do not believe it to be a life style. In sl there are way too many want-a-be Masters and slaves and the so called role playing is not what is read in Joh Normans books. I can only speak for myself so I can only tell you the John Norman dipped in to the fantasies of many. There is no way anyone can tell me that everyone doesnt have a fantasy. No matter how extreme your fantasy may be, gor is the least harmful fantasy I have endured. It is easy to make jest of things you do not understand. Personally, I would not care if you read all the books or not, if it is your choice not to like it, then dont get involved. I however believe that a younger crowd of Masters or slaves believe gor to be simular to bdsm or D/s. Well maybe it is best to define that bdsm is sexual, gor is not. It is expanding in the depts of what you may or may not desire. It would be expected of an older Master or slave not to involve someone of a younger age. I have no respect for those who use their title as Master/Mistress to mentally harm someone. And here is a clue, there is no such thing as a slave with not an acceptable emotional bond to a Master/ Mistress. It happens. As for not bring your real life into the gorean play in sl, well i hate to tell yu that each time you type and “pretend” your furring, you bring a little bit of the real life you in there. That is just natural.
as such, those not interested, ok then dont be. For those that are, play safely.
PS yes I am a reallife slave and have a wonderful real life Master. As jot said, my Master prefers not to have an untelligent slave. well wishes
asiandragon
Dec 23rd, 2007
jot, I totally agree with you, I am far from unintelligent. I know gor is not a cult and in some manner I do not believe it to be a life style. In sl there are way too many want-a-be Masters and slaves and the so called role playing is not what is read in Joh Normans books. I can only speak for myself so I can only tell you the John Norman dipped in to the fantasies of many. There is no way anyone can tell me that everyone doesnt have a fantasy. No matter how extreme your fantasy may be, gor is the least harmful fantasy I have endured. It is easy to make jest of things you do not understand. Personally, I would not care if you read all the books or not, if it is your choice not to like it, then dont get involved. I however believe that a younger crowd of Masters or slaves believe gor to be simular to bdsm or D/s. Well maybe it is best to define that bdsm is sexual, gor is not. It is expanding in the depts of what you may or may not desire. It would be expected of an older Master or slave not to involve someone of a younger age. I have no respect for those who use their title as Master/Mistress to mentally harm someone. And here is a clue, there is no such thing as a slave with not an acceptable emotional bond to a Master/ Mistress. It happens. As for not bring your real life into the gorean play in sl, well i hate to tell yu that each time you type and “pretend” your furring, you bring a little bit of the real life you in there. That is just natural.
as such, those not interested, ok then dont be. For those that are, play safely.
PS. yes I am a real life slave and have a wonderful real life Master. As jot said, my Master prefers not to have an untelligent slave.
well wishes
TCM
Jan 4th, 2008
The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated again and again.”
– Adolf Hitler
Just one note.
Can anyone count how many times the term “cult” has been used by the gorean distracters and illusionists in this?
Count em and then tell us how all their continued verbal pounding is anything less than an attempt of repeating to get to their personal agenda means of gor discontent, dare I say hate over on the masses!
So now what! We have a cult of gorean despisers. D.espisers O.f G.oreans. Leaders and followers of true dictator mentality.
The D.o.g. cult.
You haters are hilarious. Hypocritical Hilarious.
jot zenovka
Jan 6th, 2008
Somehow my comment has been assigned to Faolan Moonlight (12/06/06) and my name to someone else’s comment. Please give my words back to me…lol. Faolan will most likely appreciate this as well. Thank you. Jot
Andre
Feb 1st, 2008
Asiandragon, I completely agree with you. Its almost like some people can’t get by without having something to hate and fear. They define themselves in opposition to an idea and then fight vigorously to perpetuate that opposition because they take any rejection of it as a rejection of their own identity.
Oh but, but, but… heck, am I doing it now? No, I’m defending something I love, not attacking something I hate.
For crying out loud we’re harmless. Get over it. As for the Gorean Lifestylers? I really don’t know any so I won’t presume to pass judgment on them.
As for Second Life? I mean, how easy is it to “switch off” or “teleport out”. The people who get a thrill out of being masters and slaves go to Gor to play and those who don’t, don’t.
Oh, and as for this Nazism allusion? The connection lies in Nietzsche. There is a strong Neitzschian ethic in Gor (amongst other philosophies like Stoicism) – which defines itself by setting the bar high and despising all those who fail to make it. It does not seek to lower everyone who isn’t part of the elite down to a lower level. Nor does it seek to destroy on mass those who do not aspire to greatness. It merely places those who refuse to take responsibility for themselves into their most appropriate social context. For what is the difference between a freeloader and a slave, after all?
What most ranters who point at connections between Neitzsche and Nazism fail to point out is that the Nazi’s *perverted* and inverted Neitzsche’s philosophy until their central paradigm of destroying the Jews and anyone they labeled untermenschen (Russians, slavs and a grab bag of nonconformists) had become what Neitzsche would have called a “slave mentality”. In effect this led them into embracing a paradigm not dissimilar to the evil and tyrannical form of Communism practiced by the USSR. Neitzsche would have turned in his grave.
Precious Foggarty
Feb 28th, 2008
ok I have been reading into this and read the base article and most of the postings.
This is what I am seeing on my exploration into gore verses the is written else were on the tactics to bring people in.
First when I mention Gor in a non gor area everyone tells me to stay away. and I have herd of some realy horifict stories of what some Gorean character or another has done.
Now in everycase this could have been stopped simply by logging out at worst and easily stoped by detatching the collar.wich from my experience can not be forsced on the character unless they are wearing a combat meter.
Now as to trying to convince me to join. as my name suggests I am running a female character. when not in proper gorean dress it has been suggested I would make a lovly slave. while in propper dress wich ensadentaly is usually provided for free at TP point I am treated as a spectator at worse. IE a tourist or indefferently most of the time. Anytime I have asked questions I have been taken to IM or have had thresponses clearly stated in OOC out of character. and have always been taken to the scribbery as the very first stop to read the lititure for myself to make up my own mind. this is constantly repeated. and I mean both the tactic and what is in the note cards.
Next In order to even get involved in the community you realy do almost have to join a community. This is one area that is repeated evry were this is where your home stone is. In all the lititure I have read that was done by the gorean comunity and constantly reffered back to the series this is the most important thing to any gor even more then life. So is it unresonable for a Role Playing community based on the series to require the same. And you do have to apply to be a member. even a slave must be registered with the masters home stone.
As to master slave I have not seen anyone state anything about the male slaves? why well it is rare. Second the term slave while technically correct is also wrong. yes a slave may be sold yes they can be deat for just about any reason. and yes they can be used to entice a good player deeper into the comunity. But the slaves that do find there right master is actually from what i have seen not much different then a harrem girl. so I guess we better crusify the arabian nations. and then there was veitnam not to long ago were they girl was sold. several countries still have a tendency to sell there daughters as wives. So while it is slavery its is something that is still taught albe it to lighter extents even in modern days. Now yes I will have slaves while I role play. here is the difference, my slaves will beable to earn there freedom if they want it and learn a profetion along the way.
this are my observations and not neccisarly what you will find. Is this a cult? No it is good roleplaying. Does it get taken to far? Probably. There will always be people joining for the wrong reasons.
One last note. and this is to role play in general. as a Gamer that deals with Role Playing I will tell you not everyone can handle it. Some people do start to beleive the fantasy no mater what it is. I say this with experience. I have played D&D amoung other since 1984 and have played all types of games online and off. Role Playing can be addictive as an escape from life and the deeper you crawl into roleplaying the more likly the lines of fantasy and reality fade. For this reason I always suggest running something totaly different then who you are and Give your characters qualities you want to adopt into your life.
Charnia Maltz
Jun 11th, 2008
Well, yes I know I’m VERY late to this party so to speak, but… Has anyone looked at the Furries and then at Goreans and tried to make a comparison? Just something to think about. Also, in “Roleplay” which I feel most of you have forgotten that this is what we’re originally referring to, it IS natural (in “Roleplay”) that a woman is most free when they are a slave. This is not doublethink as the author suggests, because it is purely fictitious, if you have read the books then you know what I mean and NO I’m not a “Gorean” (though I have read through book 5 and am thinking of roleplaying there sometime in the future) I’m a Neko and even I get this, and “Goreans” supposedly hate furries/nekos/gays/bisexuals/everyone. Just want to tell you, when the RP is done, or when you’re not “within” the RP environment, then it’s a totally different story. Tell me this though, if you were Roleplaying in some sci-fi robots/aliens/spaceships etc environment, and you saw someone come in with a tail, ears, and then they tried to throw a freaking spear at you, what would you do? That’s what’s known as a griefer to most in SL or are griefers now only people who specifically bother you individually, if so, you have your own problems to work out.
arwyn Quandry
Aug 11th, 2008
I know I’m coming into this very late as well, but I wanted to add my own two cents. I’m studying Real World Gorean ideas in hopes of actually finding an RL Master someday. I don’t think it’s at all a cult. No one came up to me and said “You’re female, so you’re weak and you have to join this and bow down to me”. I saw a book on a shelf in a thrift store, got interested, and looked it up in my own free will. The fire was sparked in me when I was only 14 or 15. The person I email with to talk about Gorean philosophy emphasizes how strong it makes a girl to realize where she belongs, and I feel that – it does change your way of thinking, but it makes you strong in knowing your place in the world. You got it wrong when you said that all females have to be slaves. According to the books, only around 3% of females on Gor are enslaved, and the rest are free. Of course, it’s elevated here because for roleplaying purposes, free women aren’t much use except to capture. In the books, it’s put as females having two people in them – a free woman and a slave – and one will express itself more dominantly. If all the women were enslaved, they wouldn’t be able to have children anymore! Honestly, if you’re going to do a piece about a subculture, you should really get to know the subject matter and the people in it before you judge it like this. You only spread ignorance and anger through these kinds of articles.
mootykips
Aug 11th, 2008
sooooo what kind of childhood sexual trauma did _you_ suffer?
IP Address Available Upon Request (no doubt)
Aug 12th, 2008
The question is, what kind did_you_not_suffer from, Moot, ya, prude?
Bergil Oh
Sep 3rd, 2008
I have just recently began playing Gor in Second Life more than anything to see what it was all about.
I have a wife with whom i am in a very cosy relatiosnship. So i’d just like to say first off not all men who play are moronic fools who cannot find women in the real world.
Secondly after playing for a short while, as a huntress living in the wild as it were, meeting others in the game I have learnt that a lot of the goreans do not seem moronic in the slightest, very intelligent in fact.
It’s also rather fun, if you just keep in mind that you are playing a game, don’t go down the daft road taking it all personally, in fact the “tribe” that has recruited me explained as such, “it is a lifestyle or way of thought for many, but just enjoy it for what it is, and do not take any of it personally”
Anyway so far I have not been captured, and I intend for things to remain that way, but i’ve had great fun using things like rope arrows to sneak into castles, camps and citys, thoroughly annoying the inhabitants and giggling with glee as they charge after me, trying catch me.
All in all its not bad, some men like to dominate, some women like to be dominated, and vice versa, and for those that suffer mental damage, well who really cares.
Seriously, why should you care?
Free willy
Sep 23rd, 2008
Why is that so many women in SL and in Gor choose to be submissive and subservient. Why is that so many are need of a Master or a Mistress? Why, after 100 years of women trying to achieve female emancipation, do so many women now choose to be enslaved by men? Notice I say choose. They do choose it. Let’s face it. We are all sitting in the comfort of our own homes, in our cosy lounge or in our bedroom. No one is being forced to do anything here. To suggest that individuals are somehow brainwashed into becoming submissive does not take into account that the said person actually choose to sit at the computer, log in and go searching for a Gor Sim. I really can’t understand why so many women want to be treated as slaves. Can anyone help? And don’t tell me they are being brainwashed. They choose to go to Gor, they are not forced into logging in.
Someone said that men play Gor because they can’t get girls in any other way. I guess the same can be said of the women that play Gor. But, from my experience, it seems that some individuals have a deep desire to serve another. Others have a deep desire for power and to dominate. The dominant and submissive are real personality types. Some of the most successful Dominants in SL are women. I know a Mistress that has over twenty slaves. Obviously she is non-gor.
The simple fact is that some people freely choose to enslave themselves to others. Who knows why?
mustang letlow
Sep 24th, 2008
“and authority of Torquemada,”
what and who the fuck do you have authority over? your hookers that you call slaves? LMFAO sad sad lonely guys locked in basements
We
Sep 25th, 2008
“what and who the fuck do you have authority over? your hookers that you call slaves? LMFAO sad sad lonely guys locked in basements”
Wouldn’t bother replying to humdog. The person who wrote that is dead.
http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2008/08/remembering-car.html
jot zenovka
Oct 2nd, 2008
I’ll try again. Though it’s a nicely written piece, I didn’t write it. I did post a comment, but it got lost somewhere and my name attached to someone else’s piece. Whoever wrote it might want to claim authorship and reclaim their kudos. I’m Jot and have only one opinion concerning Gor…and it’s not interesting…consenting adults participating in a role play of their choosing is fine by me. What can it possibly matter to others whether these players choose it as a lifestyle or not? Sheesh.
We
Oct 5th, 2008
@Jot Zenovka
For Chrissake, learn that your name appears UNDER your comment, not above, already. Your comments are not mislabeled.
Mirisa
Oct 30th, 2008
Oh come now. We’re only having our fun…I’m a perfectly healthy young woman with a healthy sex life and a social life, too. So what if I would like to role play as a helpless slave? Isn’t RP all about having fun and messing about anyways? If SL wasn’t meant for RP, it shouldn’t advertise itself as an RP site. And if people are REALLY stupid enough to be brainwashed into Gor, they shouldn’t be allowed in. I dunno, make it a members only thing? Either way, let us RP as we will. It’s what we’re into. Let us be into it.
ResearcherX
Nov 9th, 2008
I read this when it first came out and thought “‘wow’is that really true ? “. Unlike the writer however I researched the subject of SL Gor and RP properly. Lets start with some very inconvenient truths which demolish this simplistic and highly sensationalist article.
The average Gorean is not even male as the article incorrectly assumes but an American stay-at-home Mom ( around 78% or SL Goreans are women ) of around 38 years old with 2 kids. She typically has three alts in Gor. Most play either free women or female fighters but about 45% play Kajira’( slaves )in addition to playing free characters. ( Many women also have male alts )
Slaves in Gor Sl, far from being coerced or forced into slavery are these days more often ignored completely . In raids they get left behind being of no interest to most Goreans and almost always it’s the Men who are taken away to be enslaved, tortured and abused in rp by girls playing fighting women ( Panthers ); Poor guys.
As most female slaves in Gor will tell you ..There are just not enough men in gor ..Many leave because they can’t find a Master.
I met many female slaves who are grandmothers. Do they keep this secret ? ..NO…it’s a game and the biggest shock of all for the writer is that the men don’t mind .( around 70% of Gorean men are married with kids. 7% are openly gay or bi )
Lemming curiously enough don’t commit suicide, It was a story made up by a botanist to make a name for themselves. Gor SL is no more a cult than any other RP group and yet people are all to keen to believe a big lie rather than a small one as pointed out by the writer. Middle age women playing fantasy games to escape a dull home life isn’t really what people want to read about is it. If you want any further evidence of this sad truth look around the markets of Gor . Around 600+ Merchants currently and only three exclusively for men .. Go figure.
Konrad Knox
Dec 8th, 2008
Woah woah. Fellows, why don’t you start bashing on Star Wars addicts, Trekkies, Lexxians, DnD-Geeks and people who love golf?
Just because people have a hobby or believe some idea is right, doesn’t mean they’re wrong and evil.
In this case, communists, democrats, liberals and green party would all be cults, because they all dream of how the society should work.
I am currently crunching through Gor book 21 out of 26, and all I gotta say is 3 things:
1. Anyone who roleplays a master but is not a master in RL, anyone who is not same in real family life as they are in computer games – does not have a right to call themselves Gorean. The term Gorean implies you are really a believer in the naturality of dominant males and submissive females. If you’re just faking it, or you are a believer “sometimes”, don’t call yourself a gorean.
2. Gor on Earth, at least in civilized countries is impossible, so none of us a really gorean. To be gorean, men have to kill each other. Goreans in the novels are all immortal, they have no AIDs, aging, or other deseases to worry about, so they control over-population with constant wars, heroic men go to battle with courage and die readily and in large numbers. Men kill for women on Gor. On earth men don’t do it, we are soft. So, every time i hear guys who roleplay in Gor tell me they are truly Gorean, i quietly laugh to myself.
3. If people come to roleplay in Gor for the sake of free slave sex, they are there for entiiiirely wrong reasons.
I’m considering to check out the gorean SL community, because I liked everything else in the books OTHER than sex. In particularly the caste system.
To conclude, one doesn’t have to be lonely, small, abused, or unable-to-find-women in real life to be a master. A guy can be gentle and talk quietly, but his word can be solid as a rock if he has one thing that wasn’t mentioned anywhere in this thread: honor.
Goreans had honor up the ying-jang. You don’t need whips and props to make an obedient slave out of your own wife. All it takes is honor and courage to show your mastery.
I never had to repeat, condition, brain-wash, or even introduce my spouse to Gor. The fact that she senses a master in me, without me even making a single reference to the particular “culture”, the subtle clues i receive from her about female sexuality, prove lots in the books to be true.
I believe somehow that any straight couple would benefit from reading the books just to get a perspective.
And yes, things presented in the book are overly romantic. Nobody gets sick, and all girls are sultry vixens. But I agree on one thing – that’s how men like girls, to be sultry lustful vixens. Spoken like a scorpio that I am. These books at least have a distinguishing idea and a detailed world, bringing them a step over your regular book shelf trashy novels that have the same erotic stuff in them, just masked and perfumed.
I have to grant it, not all Gor books were good. I did not enjoy 11, 13, skipped 14 through 17 outright, and did not enjoy 18 and 19. The rest of them were freakin’ excellent. If you skip the master-slave discussions that become real repetitive. I think sometimes that Norman was afraid that people would only buy 1 book out of a series, and wanted to make sure that each book carries the idea.
Kumii0
Feb 12th, 2009
One point most everyone missed in this forum is the fact that in the books, gorean version of slaver was not just Man over woman. As the term kajire means plural and kajira means slave girl and kajiru means slave boy. Also in a number of the gor books the Main character is at odds with someone and overcomes it and if i remember in the first few books the biggest hero of the series himself was enslaved name of this hero was Tarl Cabot. Of course he later regained his freedom. I just have to say this as my last few words, READ THE BOOKS BEFORE PASSING JUDGEMENT ON THE NAMESAKE.
leto albatros
Feb 13th, 2009
I find slavery anywhere to be offensive, doubly so in SL.
I am also not in SL to role-play. Go to worlds of war or someplace.
Marine Sniper
Feb 14th, 2009
Gor is no way of life. Yall dont treat your dogs that way. The Books of Gor is nothing more then Comic Books. If there so great get Norman to write new comic books for yall to follow. Yall crack me up when ya say you follow this crap in life. I would laugh like hell if ya told me in real your from Urth. Get a life!!!!!!!! If you said ya follow BDSM in life I would beleive ya but this comic book crap just gives me a great laugh. Plus all these damn Panthers and women thank they have the same rights as men wrong again. A Free Woman isnt much abouve a slave can be face stripped at any given time. A Panther is just a run away slave that hasnt benn captured yet. It amazes me how yall cant interput black and white.
Marine Sniper
Feb 14th, 2009
Hey if its so much oeace keepers in palace look up AOW7 he claims to be into Gor and is into beastality. Thats the types of people ya need to be around on your sims. Keep them off ours!
strwbrryfield
Feb 23rd, 2009
Gor, screw that sim. A bunch of sexual predators if you ask me!! Especially the Administrators of some of the cities who have serious conflicts in the difficulties of balancing out how not to abuse their powers with the need to sexually conquer the Free Woman of the city.
My question is this, with all the naked willing slaves running around serving you and shaking their asses, especially since they are supposedly more desireable than the a Free Woman, Why do most Gorean men insist on the raping, beating, and torture of otherwise harmless women? Ones who just want to role play and be part of the community! And most of those men suck at roleplay, and then try to hold you to your roleplay, that you were captured therefore you are slave now. Canned Masters, Tea Drinking Idiots!! Yeah, reminds me of A Guns n Roses song, Welcome to the Jungle…..bring you to your knees, knees, HHAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAA
Is it that what you can not have you Free Men secretly desire and lust after us because the sluts in front of you are too damn easy.
And by the way, here is something else to let you be informed about, One was a person who counseled people in his church in RL, and his companion was a Phycotherapist. How does that grab you by the balls? So next time you are in church or need someone to tell you dirty dark secrets too, remember that could be them..great manipulators at work.
strwbrryfield
Feb 23rd, 2009
Another thing to add, there is no HONOR in anything about GOR, Honor is the ability to accept a woman on her own free will and bidding and being man enough not to force yourself on someone or be at your feet. Why don’t you read about Greek Mythlogy or Roman History. Get enlighten about Leonides and Women of Sparta. Alexander the Great, perhaps, Willam Wallace, Richard the Lion Heart, there inlies your role models for Honor, and Intergity.
Jupiter
Mar 11th, 2009
There is only one good thing about SL Gor. It keeps these sociopathic men away from us in the real loving world. Shame about the damaged women who get sucked into this crap, but maybe it’ll be a good learning curve or wake up call for them. Imagine having to use a b-grade load of science fiction crap to feel in control of women? A real man doesn’t have to do that