Blackjack! or How To Lose Your Shirt in Second Life

by Alphaville Herald on 11/01/07 at 2:53 pm

by Magnus Rothlisberger


[Editor's note: This shocking tale of loss reaches us from Second Life resident Magnus Rothlisberger, who hopefully now knows better than to keep much cash in his PayPal account. A cautionary tale.
--Walker Spaight

Armed with a popular betting strategy I set out to test the internet gambling goodness in Second Life. I began at a Raiden Gold Casino roulette table placing individual L$1,000 bets on black. Always bet on black. Every time red or green came up I quickly doubled my bet to L$2,000 and then L$4,000, etc. until that accursed wheel finally landed on a black number.

Some would claim this method of gambling is too boring or has too low of a payout at 1:1 to be any fun. And it was partially true; I was insulted to have to wait 30 seconds for the “No more bets” and wheel before placing my next bet.

But screw anyone who calls winning boring. As the hours ticked by, some wins were easy but others were by the skin of my teeth with prayers and expletives hurled at the table, casino, and any avatars unfortunate enough to pass by during my gambling run.

The tension and stakes increased:

L$1,000 on black (Lost: Red 23)
L$2,000 on black (Lost: Red 14)
L$4,000 on black (Lost: Red 9)


L$8,000 on black (Lost: Red 27)
L$16,000 on black (Lost: Green 00)
L$32,000 on black (Lost: Red 23)

sonofabitch, this wheel sucks

I quickly transferred additional funds from my PayPal account to cover the next bet.

L$64,000 on black (Won: Black 26)


It certainly was exciting, but in the back of my head I was reminded that each win, even on a L$64,000 bet, only gained me L$1,000. But then again, I was up $L20,000 after only a few hours.

With a shrug, I jumped up from the table, defiantly leaping over the roped-off areas, and headed to the blackjack tables. As I sat down I received an offer to become a Raiden Gold Casino VIP and quickly agreed. There were no benefits that I could see but I did have “V.I.P” displayed prominently over my head. That was good enough for me.


As a V.I.P., I applied the same strategy of doubling my bet at any loss. Blackjack is of course more interactive and I felt like I had more control over my destiny. Betting L$1,000 each hand (unless I lost) I was occasionally rewarded with a “Blackjack! 21!” which increased my payout. This even occurred once after losing 5 times in a row and on a L$32,000 bet.

Bet: L$16,000 (Won: Blackjack! 21!) Payout: L$24,000

After 6 hours I was up L$43,000. It was now early morning and I needed some sleep so I vowed to return the next night and continue my unbreakable winning streak.

I returned to Raiden Gold Casino as a VIP and up L$43,000. My strategy was working and I was ready to take the casino for all it was worth. After winning a few quick hands the dealer began getting impossible cards and I was left with 16, 13, 14, 15, 6, etc., on every deal. If I hit, I bust. If I didn’t hit, the dealer immediately had 21. Performing backflips for good luck only resulted in timeouts and having my money returned to me.

Things were getting serious:

Bet: L$1,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$2,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$4,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$8,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$16,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$32,000 (Lost)

what the hell is going on?

For the second time, I transferred money from my PayPal account. I tried a different table, betting L$64,000, and amazingly scored a Blackjack! But shiiiiiitttt, the dealer also amazingly had a Blackjack and cancelled mine out with a push. I was still down L$63,000.

Again I bet L$64,000 and was dealt a King and Jack. 20! Great, let’s see you beat that!

12, 13, 16, 21. Bet: L$63,000 (Lost)

I could not believe it. I went from being up L$43,000 to down L$127,000 in half the time. Disgusted and disillusioned, I immediately closed Second Life and watched South Park until 3:00am, muttering to myself all the while.

The next night was New Year’s Eve and I received an invitation to the Raiden Gold Casino’s New Year’s party. They were offering a special cash raffle every few minutes, so I thought this was just the occasion to turn my luck around.

For a third time, I transferred money from my PayPal account. But instead of betting L$126,000 immediately, I thought I would start off humble and just try to win my money back and break even.

Bet: L$1,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$2,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$4,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$8,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$16,000 (Lost)
Bet: L$32,000 (Lost)

Losing six hands in a row without a single win?! Impossible! Down L$189,000. But I had lost so many times I was due for a win. The casino owed me a win. I transfered the remaining money from my PayPal account. This was my last hope. I didn’t have enough to double the last bet but it came close.

Bet: L$157,180

I had a Queen and 4 showing and the dealer was showing 3. I hit and received a 2 for a total of 16. That was two low cards in a row following a face card. There had been many face cards in the previous hand. I’d be a fool to hit on 16 with this much money on the line and the dealer showing a 3.

I was shaking as the dealer turned his cards. Had I really bet L$346,180 — roughly US$1,153 — in three days? I wouldn’t bet that much in a RL casino. But it had happened so quickly and it didn’t seem like real money . . . until now.

The picture speaks for itself:


I lost. I . . . lost. And that’s how to lose your shirt — and L$346,180 — in three days of Second Life gambling.

41 Responses to “Blackjack! or How To Lose Your Shirt in Second Life”

  1. Gerami Fizz

    Jan 11th, 2007

    This reminds me of my first days in SL, back when newbies started with L$250. I stopped in at Moonshine Casino, won a few hands, and then promptly lost every penny I had. Instead of sinking RL cash into buying more L$ (Lindex didn’t exist at the time and I didn’t know about IGN and GOM) I went and played in a sandbox for the next few months, which I might not have otherwise done. So, ironically, the fact that I lost all my money in SL made me a more productive (and richer) avatar in the long run :-)

    P.S. Very sorry to hear about all those gambling losses. I don’t mean to make light of them, given that the stakes were so much greater in your case.

  2. Maximilian Goldflake

    Jan 11th, 2007

    That strategy is flawed for many reasons and I wouldn’t advice anyone to try it. A couple of important parts of a successful strategy are to NOT increase the bet after a losing hand (immediately decrease to your lowest bet!) and to walk away after three consecutive losses. I too am sorry to hear about your loss but thanks for sharing as it will act as a cautionary tale for all.

  3. Inigo Chamerberlin

    Jan 11th, 2007

    This isn’t very helpful to Magnus I know, but it’s sound advice to anyone gambling in any form – in which I include ‘investment’.

    DO NOT gamble more than you can afford to loose. Accept that you are risking the money, probably at odds very much in the house’s favour, not yours, and write that money off before you begin.
    Then it becomes ‘play money’. Just a way of keeping score. Win or loose, it doesn’t matter.

    Just my 2 cents on the subject.

  4. Mabb Dilweg

    Jan 11th, 2007

    Thanks so much for sharing this tale with us – I do hope it raises awareness and makes people stop and think about how much money they’re actually consuming while playing with Linden $…

    You know there’s something I’ve always wondered about with SL gambling type operations. How can we trust them to be fair and above board? How can we trust that the results are truly random?

    I worked for a RL company that conducted lotteries and poker machines (slots). The return to the player had to be guaranteed, and things like screwing with the results in any way was of course illegal. Since this company had licences worth billions of dollars to protect, they did things the legal way. Legal casinos are in the same situation. Now, that doesn’t stop you losing your shirt and there are problems all around the world where gambling is available, with those who have an addiction, and those who have experiences just like Magnus…. but at least we know that they’re not cheating as such.

    How do we know that the SL casinos – or any non licensed casino for that matter – doesn’t have smarts to skew the results in scenarios favourable to the House?

    Given that I don’t know who’s written the software and who is policing it – if anyone – I’d never trust an SL Casino, and I’ve never trusted internet casinos that aren’t run by a RL company with something valuable to lose if they’re dodgy.

  5. Artemis Fate

    Jan 11th, 2007

    Gambling in SL is a very smart idea. certainly in real life the only thing that keeps casinoes from (just barely) entirely ripping off their customers with zero odds chances of winning is a Gaming regulation board. But hey, even if SL doesn’t have anything to keep Casino owners from making their machines have 0 chance of payout, it’s still a good idea to throw all your money in a slot-machine… right?

  6. Prokofy Neva

    Jan 11th, 2007

    Could someone explain to me this “strategy” or “concept” of doubling your bets after losing money?

    Sounds like Second Life.

  7. bzy

    Jan 11th, 2007

    So how this different than an online gambling site like Partypoker or Betonsports? When are the feds going to go in and shut this down, as they do any other online gambling site that operates in the us, or allows uUS to citizens to play?

    Forget the debate about the number of second life residents, the real threat for this “world” is that it runs illegal casinos on US soil.

  8. Tyler

    Jan 12th, 2007

    bzy has an interesting point. when SL goes open source, could there be private, invite-only gambling halls and speakeasies?

  9. Urizenus

    Jan 12th, 2007

    doubling up on a loss makes sense if you have an infinite stock of money to play with AND an no house limit, but nobody has either. The idea is that *eventually* you will win, and if you have doubled up on that winning bet, then you neutralize you the losses coming in front of it. But given that the amount you must bet grows exponentially with each consecutive loss, you either hit the house limit, or the limit of money you have, or the limit of money in the world much sooner than you expect.

  10. Bob Perry

    Jan 12th, 2007

    I had a similar experience…i gambled at gold rush casino..but the diference is, the blackjack table was flawed and took 70,000L of mine. When i contacted Ziggy Hicks, he basically sent me a notecard saying to bad and muted me. IF YOUR GOING TO GAMBLE, DONT DO IT AT GOLD RUSH CASINOS!!!!!!!

  11. Seola Sassoon a.k.a Random Writer

    Jan 12th, 2007

    I have heard of a malicious script out there, that when you go to pay 20L on the lil pop up box, it shows you 20L but the machine takes other values.

    Because you ‘risk’ when you gamble, LL figures this is a risk that these people are representing the truth and when asked about it… LL said nothing can be done because it was the gambler’s responsibility to know when it’s wrong. As if there’s a flashing box that says these are malicious scripts….

  12. JK Warrior

    Jan 13th, 2007

    This article by Magnus is very innacurate. Magnus talked about betting on roulette and doubling his bet.. 1K 2K 4K etc. Well to let you know. The highest betting limit at our casino is 1000 per bet and the most that can be bet on roulette at any one giving time is 3K. Not only that, the table that he was using in his photo is a 10 – 100 linden betting limit.

    I do not mind coverage about Raiden Gold Casino as long as it is accurate and true. In this case Magnus has chosen to pose himself as a dishonost writer who is sore because I had to remove him from the Raiden Gold VIP group for not respecting our rules. In addition, I would like to add the story about his blackjack play has nothing to do with the way the tables perform. He lost that money because of the following:

    A) the betting system called the Martingale sytem where you double your bets when you lose. Well this system does not work for may reasons. Two of which are, casinos have betting limits and there is no gaurantee that you will win before you reach the limit and also player bankrolls are also limited so there is no gauratnee that you will win befoe you run out of money to bet in SL or RL. You can get all the info about this betting system at this link

    B) Based on what Magnus said about his playing strategy in the article he was playing with a poor strategy for blackjack which increases the house edge on the game. For more info on correct Blackjack playing strategy you can also visit this link

    I just want to let everyone know that Raiden Gold Casino prizes itsefl as being honost and fair to every player. We have been in business now since March 2nd, 2006 and have a lot of great customers who can speak for us. Magnus has decided to report lies and is basing his article on an emotional experience and not true facts of what really happened while he played. And the fact that he had to lie to boost his story is even worse.

    I work very hard to ensure that everyone who comes to Raiden Gold Casino has a great experience, as long as they respect our rules.

  13. Lyndon Baylin jr.

    Jan 16th, 2007

    I play this game poker in our house with my friends and we enjoy it a lot. This our fast time if there’s nothing we can do, it is a mind game. there’s one time when i surf on the net looking for casino games and i found this one, Gambling Guide offers information about Online Casinos Poker Blackjack – The Webs best online casinos rated according to their popularity, payouts and bonuses. It is one of the good casino site ever.

  14. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 13th, 2007

    I havent red all the post here just the first one. I too played a system in gold rush casino,

    I know that if u loose one time then the next time u will have a better chance to win, each time u loose the statistical chances for u to win is bigger in next round.

    So if u increase your bet each time u loose then when u do win u will have won more than lost.. That was my plan in Gold rush casino i second life.

    The difference between a real life casino and a second life one was that the max bet in Gold rush was amazingly 100k, and u could start with just 10…

    So if i bet 20,20,20,100,250,500,1250,2500,5000,12500,25000,50000,100000 i would always win if i would win within any of these 13 rounds. and increase my money a bit but needing to have 200k to invest..

    In a real life casino u cant just increase your bet cause theres is a max highest bet that is not so high, and u be playing for real money so u wouldnt dare so much.

    SO i figured if I play like the Dealer, stand on 17 never double, never split then my chance of win should be 50% 50%, and i wouldnt believe dealer could win 13 times in a row.

    But he could, first time i tryed i lost about 27k in 11 rounds and that was almost all my money i played a bit more and found out i won on round 14.. Damn so i had to change my tactic… saying that one of those bet early in the loosing round i would just bet 20..

    I got new money later and played some, eventually i lost all, this time i needed to win 15 times in a row. I couldnt belive it.

    I started writing down how much the dealer won over me in a maximum winning streak compared to how much i had won in a winning streak,

    After 2 weeks of play the dealer had won over me 15 times in a row twize, , 13 times over a great number of times (didnt get a precize number) 12 times over me alot, 11 times over me a hell of a lot and 10,9,8 really really alot of times.

    And compare to that my maximum wining streak in those 2 weeks of constant play was 8 times in a row one time….

    That didnt seem like fair odds when thinking theres a 50% 50% chance of win.

    I talked to a number of people who also tryed doubling their money after loosing, and they too had only come to the conclusion they had lost a lot, a woman had lost 360 K.

    So i tryed different systems, I try make 5 different AVS giving each 3000k and hoping that just one of them would make 20000 linden by just playing normal without a system.

    One of the guys made 3000 into 25000 but the rest lost theirs. But i was happy, i split those 25000 so each got 3000 and kept the rest 10000 for saving.

    But next day i lost on all 5 av… and the next day again all 5 av lost all again.

    So i was in the end back to a big minus.

    I decided that no much how i play and what tactic i use with what ever AV that i would always end up loosing more than i had won, yes maybe i be lucky at first and get some money out of nothing but if i continue to play i will for sure loose those money too.

    So i quit SL believeing that GOld rush casino isnt a fair place.

    I believe that the make u believe u get random cards, and u do get random cards, but there are sensors build into the mashine that if it sences u to make double bets then it will keep winning, and if it suddenly sence u make an impulsive high bet then it will also take those money with a no chance to win deck of cards for u.
    If u sit and play alot by 1 table then the dealer will slowly get better and better cards….all manipulated.. thats my thought abit the CON, and i cant really prove it, just i say the statictics and the rumours is evidence enough for me to quit SL, and post this message.. believe what u want. Its a kapitalistic type game not a religious one…

  15. stranger

    Feb 14th, 2007

    Its apparent that you dont know the first thing about blackjack. wow.. 50/50 ?? Bet doubling?? yikes lol… trust me, the problem is not SL casinos… its you. you really need to spend some time learning about the game. go there for the most accurate info. Sorry to repost what someone posted above for this site but it really is the best site to learn about gambling and odds.

  16. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 15th, 2007

    I know u can increase your odds if u split sometimes or double sometimes there are schemes out for that.

    BUT are u telling me that there is statiscally not a 50% 50% chance of win at each round.
    IF U PLAY JUST LIKE THE DEALER???? if u stand at 17 and never split or double u play just exastly like the brainless dealer, and its all up to who gets the best card. Are u telling me thats a lie that its not a 50% 50% chance of win each time???? If the cards are truly random made that is.

    ITs doesnt take a genious to play black jack, but i know when its a good idea to stop at 12,13,14,15 if its a single deck card u can count the cards an figure out the possiblity of what the dealer can get out of what the dealer show. In SL its multiple deck cards and if the dealer has a number 2-9 showing then its a good idea to stop on 16 if u got 16 cause the chance of burst for dealer is bigger than if dealer has a 10,knight,queen,king or ace showing. But it dont take a genios to play, it just take a sucker to keep playing when u know the cards are dealt in a cheat system way…….

    like they are IN GOLD RUSH CASINO second life,,, please dont inform this to Ziggy Hicks he wouldnt be happy to know.

  17. stanger

    Feb 16th, 2007

    Yes, that is exacty what i am saying. Its very simple probability. There is no such thing as 50/50 in blackjack. in fact, playing exactly like the dealer increases the house edge to 5.48% when if you use a solid play strategy you can bring the house advantage to less than 1%. Plus remember, the house will always have an advantage because the player has to act first. for example, if you bust, and then the dealer busts.. it is not a tie.. you still lose. Like I said, you really need to spend more time learning the game. you have no idea what you are talking about. If I owned a casino in SL I would love to have players like you, im sure the casino would do well, but them i bet players like youo are also the ones who always think the house is cheating when you lose and that its no becasue of your poor play strategy.

    like I said, go here and learn how to play blackjack.

  18. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 17th, 2007

    Well i just played for 8 hours each day for 2 weeks and i didnt see just a 5.48% advantage of the house, When i played that much i saw a 60% advantage of the house.

    Maybe your Casino is more fair, i didnt try many casinos in SL, the thing is i wont ever try many casinos in sl. When i saw tryed that one Gold Rush Casino, And found to my amazing discovery that my maximum winning streak of those total 14 days play gave me an 8 winning streak continuosly ONE TIME, which compared to dealer had a 15 Winning streak continuosly TWICE, That sort of didnt felt like just a 5.48 house advantage..

    I know all about the schemes that are made for improving your chance of win… there are 2 schemes one for 1 deck of card and the other for multiple deck cards and i know how to use em. But i wouldnt play in second life cause i got a very sure feeling that the cards are manipulated….

    I do play in Real life casinos occasionally, there i know for sure that the dealer is fair cause she play multiple opponents that are coming and going each round she got a new set of opponents she cant possible mix the cards in any favour to the house.. So im not a total newbie if thats what u think. And im not putting any good words out to my surroundings for playing second life except for the social life thing…. casinos is like
    loosing not just your t-shirt… people that lost 360k or more hey people its not just a bit of money guys…

  19. stranger

    Feb 17th, 2007

    Actually, you are mistaking me for someone else I think. I do not own a casino in SL. I have played at many though. For the most part the ones I have played at seem honost to me. As far as your 60% house advantage, I would be very interested in hearing about what math you used to come to that number. The game at Goldrush which is the same game I have played at other casinos too is based on 6 decks being shuffled infinatly. You can find similar games at may harrahs casinos in Vegas, Treasure Island is first that comes to mind however I think they may use 7 or 8 decks.Any way, streaks like that happen even in RL casinos.

    I was playing at the Venetian once and 3 times in 5 hands hit blackjack that pushed because the dealer also had blackjack. I have seen losing streaks of more than 15 hands straight. However the mathematics are meant to work out the way they do over a long period of time and not through any single sitting of blackjack. Trust me, in my eyes, you are a begginer maybe even borderline amature player.

    Like I said, you really need to study the game and learn how to play it. Check out that website I told you about. The other poster too, who is the owner of the casino in this blog also mentioned that site. It is the best site to visit to learn how to play blackjack like a professional.

    One last note, keep in mind, there is no such thing as a “fair casino” A casino can be honost but not fair. The odds on every game in the casino is tilted to favor the house so in the long run you will lose money no matter what. However there are some games which the player can gain an edge over the house, certain video poker games offer that if you play with an optimum play strategy and even blackjack can work out that way if you employ a good card counting strategy.

    Keep in mind card counting is not a favorable practice in any casino. In addition to that, it is worthless on infinate deck games like the game at Goldrush, most other sl casinos and places like Treasure Island in Vegas that offer infinate deck games.

    One last thing, there is no such thing as a “scheme” top help you win at any blackjack outside of card counting. Unless you are cheating the mathematics work out the same on every hand you play. the ouse edge is a combiantion of the cards in playu and how well you actually play blackjack. So when I say 5.48% house edge, that is with the assumtpion that you are playing with pefect strategy. I can about gaurantee that you are not.

    anyway… one last time… maybe you will finally get a clue….


    but then, ignorance is said to be bliss too I guess. Probably not as much when you are losing though :) hmmm?

  20. Neil Claxton

    Feb 18th, 2007

    SL gambling seems like a bad idea. There are many known instances of machines that are programmed to take your money.

    Unless there is a SL gambling oversight board that is allowed to inspect machines and certify them trustworthy, there is no way to know that a machine isn’t programmed to cheat you. I know of a certain blackjack game where nearly every time you play if you get above 12 and hit you bust 80% of the time.

    Not walking away is the players fault no matter how rigged a game.

    I though the article was going to show how the games would entice you into loosing more.
    a truly malicious game would keep track of the avatar playing and how much money they had put in and try to pay out on small bets to get you to raise and then start taking hardcore once you had put in more than it had paid out. then stop paying out at all so you leave to another machine, which is networked together and knows all about your loosing ways.

    thank god they’re not that way and i’m not writing any that are.

  21. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 18th, 2007

    Well actually that 60% is not calculated its an estimate, it might be higher..

    Im not telling you a joke here, i played a hell of a lot, and getting black jack 3 times in a row happen to me too.

    The dealer in Gold Rush had a winning streak of 15 times in a row. And thats for those 14 days of play 8 hour multiplied 14 = 104 hours sitting by the casino.

    I did this during my christmas holyday. I just played SL cause i know a Rl friend inside SL. I also had played black jack at Rl casinos just earlier..

    And i know u cant double your bet each time u loose at RL casinos cause there is a max highest bet, if u reach that then u would atleast have lost all u had bet so far…

    But in Gold Rush the max is 100k and when starting from 10 then u can actually win unless the dealer wins more than 14 times in a row,

    When i played random just high and low bet chaoticly then it seemed to be very random who get the best cards… but imidiatly i started to make double bets then the dealer would get his winning streaks… And my winning streaks would come as seldom as only a third of the times when the dealer got his.

    I tryed something amazingly, I only keep posting cause u seem like a fair dude.

    Well i tryed making a very low start bet. I had 27k And i made 4 low bet at first.

    Dealer one all those, so i doubled slowly.

    Dealer one those also i kept doulbing and was soon giving a bet at 5000.

    Dealer one everything in a way like even if i stand dealer would win or if i hit i would burst. (I believe that if i dont hit then the card i was suppose to get is the one dealer get if he hits)

    So i got a feeling this would be a 14+ winning streak for dealer so

    I started to just bet 20 again 3 times Dealer won all those as well..

    Now dealer had won 13 in a row so i bet 10k he won that too and then i bet my last money
    except 1000 and dealer won that too he had won 15 times in a row……

    So i had only 1000 left so i just bet that and i won.. then i bet 2000 and i won..
    Then i bet 4000 and i won, then i bet 8000 and i won……

    What im saying is that is highly unlikely and unnatural way cards are dealt,

    I then played normal again cause i had gotten some of my money back, but about 10 minutte later i had lost all again on another one of dealers winning streak where i didnt have enough cash..

    But even if i have 200k in cash, 100k to make bets up to 100.000 and then the final bet 100k even if i have that cash and play carefully the dealer will take it,

    Cause he can win probably more than 16 times in a row..

    U just got to look at the statictics, during a 100+ hours play sitting by the table,

    Then the dealer had a max winning streak of 15 twize, and i had a max winning streak of 8 once……. during that much play i should at least had almost the same as the dealer one time the dealer shouldnt have had an almost twize as big winning streak twize as many as me during all those hours….. the more u play the more even the score should get.

    Its just the same with dices if u got a normal dice that has a number 1-6….and u throw that dice infinite many times, then each number will appear equally many times.
    Its just impossible to throw a dice infinite number of times except for theory, but u can
    throw it alot of times so the numbers should appear almos equally many times..

    I wonder how it can be you are sure that i havent been looking at that Wizardofodds page?

    Ill let u look at a page too then, its not a fraud one, its the schemes i play by.

    I JUST WANNA CONCLUDE Even if i know these schemes i wouldnt use them in SL.
    Im way tooo smart for that……

  22. Neil Claxton

    Feb 18th, 2007

    a “fair casino” takes $ 15 per hour you sit there in vegas.
    pays out 98% of what you put in.

    SL gambling needs oversight of some sort to be legit, but the casinos seem to have plenty of people playing.

    I’m not saying linden oversight, a committee of casino owners and the game’s designers would evaluate games for fairness, then they’d be no-modify and use notecard configs so casino owners can only modify certain parameters. these machines would be easily identifiable and the group would be the contact for complaints since they certified the game. Since the people reviewing the code are game designers themselves they won’t have any reason to steal code, and are qualified to analyze it. Also, there should be some sort of conflict of interest watchdog, so that things are kept legit.

    Without a review board there’s nothing to stop anyone from making a gaming machine that only takes L$1 and never pays out. why L$1 because nobody is going to play 10 times with the chance of winning L$20 especially if you make the game really slow. and they’d never find out that they never win.

    without a review board you can make games that try to outsmart the players in ways that aren’t honest.

    What if some clever person makes a HUD VIP club item that does unsavory things with the machine you’re playing…

    I’m surprised that being in the VIP group doesn’t affect the odds 1 way or another…
    if you want to give VIP’s better odds, that’ fine with disclosure.

  23. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 18th, 2007

    Neil Claxton you are so right…The SL casino mashines are programmed to take your money.

    and they are networked so they know your avs score..

    Stranger i dont know if your are a casino owner, or just a gambler, But if your are just a gambler then truly u are a sucker……. I more think you are one of those clever owners that make u think you are something you are not…

    Its just like the mashines they are programmed to take your money but also programmed to make u believe the cards are delt random… its a tricky program… but it can fool suckers.

  24. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 18th, 2007

    The problem about getting the fraud out of Second life is that the inventors of Second life probably wouldnt give a flying f… about doing any investigation of programming or investigation of any kind cause they are so far making money.

    Each linden spendt in a casino gives an interest to the inventors.. so if these Fraud casinos make people belive they can win, then these consumer people will raise money at their bank to spend inside the casino.. No matter where money is spend inside sl there is an interes payd to the inventors.. So if they make an investigation then they will be a shut down of a lot of casinos, and then people will only have fair casinos left where they cant win much on unless they are truly lucky, and by shutting down casinos means fraud or not means shutting down economi…

    Thats why it doesnt help talking about investigations.. the only thing to do is spred the word to the consumers not to play casinos…….

    If u wanna play Sl, then there are some options for having a good time, but making money at a casino is … well very good if you are the owner of that casino…….

  25. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 18th, 2007

    THIS one goes out to the inventors of Second life….

    If you hear or get some clue on an ongoing fraud in your programing world. U cant just say that some people are bad and overlook the problem.

    If u overlook a fraud, for some reason, then You are part of the Fraud………

  26. Neil Claxton

    Feb 18th, 2007

    part of the problem is llFrand is not random, most random functions aren’t.

    Many years ago i made a program that plotted a graphic based on a random function. it drew to screen using a not function, after 14 days and some 13million permutes, it started erasing itself – meaning that it was generating the same random numbers in the same order, it went 14 more days, fully erased and started again, and repeated… I used every random number there was in the system.

    part of the problem is flawed programming and part of the problem is unscrupulous people making the games.

  27. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 18th, 2007

    In a program like that, i would be able to make alot of money.. because if i during a long time got to understand the rythmn of numbers… then i could predict my next outcome..

    I would know when to make a high bet and when not to make a high bet.

    If all casinos are made with a program that has a systemized numbering. Then clever people could figure out the system and they would win alot fast, until the system was changed….

    I just think its better if cards where dealt truly random there would be no speculations on
    both sides of the table….. but so far the side that is getting money out this deal is the dealer. So i wouldnt spent 1 linden in sl. if the cards are random yes i like to take chances… but when i played earlier i was just monitoring and experimenting i got to a very bad conclusion…. I dont belive the casinos uses a system to give the cards i belive the are dealt random, but sencors will pick up double bets and high bets and change the not showing cards to favour the dealer.
    So that way dealer will slowly win if u just bet the same amount each time cause it has a 5.48% advantge, and if u suddenly make new kind of bets then dealer will stop the random thing and win for sure. But that function wont start until you have tryed winning some first….. all registered to each AVs.

  28. Neil Claxton

    Feb 18th, 2007

    It’s not LL’s problem if people make games that aren’t fair.Truly it doesn’t reflect on them like the weird script and object behaviors from day to day.

    I’d rather not have LL involved in anything other than keeping the grid up.

    Let the people who care about legit casinos work together and come up with a solution as a community.

  29. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 18th, 2007

    I believe a community is a very good idea,

    It would have to be based on facts not rumors…..

    But i dont agree its not Linden labs problem that alot of people claim to have lost 300k in Sl at a rotten casino, LL made it possible to make the rotten casino for rotten people and LL has the option to undo the rotteness. If they choose to overhear the complaints and they choose let the rotten casinos exits cause its good for buisness then they have chosen a path of action, that entitles them to be prosecuted.

    Depiding on how many complaints they hear and how much they overlook the problem compared to how easy it is to not priorities the good casino-owner whom is LL big customer comparing all these facts could give LL quite a hazzle if the wrong people got to get disturbed… If its just teenagers and kiddos that spend money and loose money in sl then no sweat if its some consumer organisation then actions will be made….

    But making a community of the players inside SL is a good idea too.

  30. Neil Claxton

    Feb 18th, 2007

    The problem is it’s really hard to prove you’ve been ripped off. LL didn’t have anything to do with the programming of another user’s objects, so their responsibility extends about as far as dispute resolution.

    If anyone lost L$300,000 playing casino games, that’s a gambling addiction. It’s your responsibility to be a reasonable player.

    If there were a big complaint against a casino from any people with real evidence, then that would be one thing.

    It’s not illegal in SL to make a game you can never win. Maybe immoral, but there isn’t any law i know of. Places like that might get protesters or something.

    there’s not any evidence of LL overlooking complaints against casinos than there is overlooking complaints against users, they seem to be equally unresponsive from what i hear.

    What happens in vegas if you loose a lot of money and then complain that the casino cheated you… the casino might give some money back if you lost a lot. but probably nothing, you knew you might not win before you started.

    the gaming community would do this because they care that the people think the games aren’t rigged and want more business. not because of LL

  31. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 18th, 2007

    Well, Neil you do look at each accusation i burst out, and give a good respons.

    Im afraid you are on the right track when it comes to who is in charge of the fraud.

    I think your right when u say is immorally to make a game u will automatically loose on but not illegally in second life.

    I find it very much like a big lack of responsibility, but thats how it is in RL too.

    Sl is just smaller version of what happens in RL.

    When it comes to the loosing of 360k it was not me. Maybe thats why im not extremely angry, i know people lost more than 3 times me…….. But i am frustrated about the fact
    that its such an complicated Fraud, that the good people will get a bad experience maybe without even realizing the fraud.

    Its not a gambling bad-habbit, cause there never was any gambling going on.

    I myself lost about 100k at the casino trying to learn the possibilities…

    But i know there are a numorus of people who lost more than 300k… thats a shame especially the feeling those people get when they think what they did whats wrong.. but they didnt do anything wrong they was scammed….

  32. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 18th, 2007

    Neil Claxton wrote ::: I know of a certain blackjack game where nearly every time you play if you get above 12 and hit you bust 80% of the time.

    That wouldnt be the gold rush one would it???

    Well there are statistics u can count on, if u say u got 12 and u wanna hit..

    Then in RL at a multiple deck card game u can only bust if u get 10,Kn,Q,K. Thats 4 cards
    out of a 13 card deck, so the chance for u to burst is 4/13 aprox 31% chance.

    If u feel everytime u hit on 12 u burst or u feel u burst 80% the times then for sure its
    a cheat machine.

    Look at this internet page for best play with multiple deck card:

    But dont play in any Second life Casino i got a 90% feeling they all cheat and a 100% feeling that Gold Rush is a cheating casino…

  33. Neil Claxton

    Feb 18th, 2007

    it’s not at that casino, but it busts on 12 an awful lot. I’ve bought machines that talk about how the code has been fixed to be more fair. Some have ways of helping to ensure the casino doesn’t loose too much money.

    I play a little, but i know it’s not likely to be productive.

    I lost a few thousand once after winning nearly as much, that’s about it, there are moments when you can make a few 1000 and leave. Some of the games that bust on 12 often may have math problems, I think i saw someone taking advantage of that and winning alot, I started working on trying to make the dealer bust by playing it’s own game. I hold low if i think the dealer is likely to try to beat me and that seems to work

    one good thing is the poorly programmed games may be vulnerable to analysis of the game it plays/ more so than any RL game ever was ( again no review = no quality control )

  34. Thore Krestensen

    Feb 18th, 2007

    U can hold low as much u like u will eventually loose alot.

    Thing is the rythmn changes during play, at start u might get 20k from a casino starting with just 800 linden, but even if u think u burst 80% the time when hit on 12 then if u stand dealer will win too, u get those cards u cant win no matter what u do.

    And those cards are delt to u after a good while of play escpecially if u have won some earlier… the casino works like that they put out a BAIT, giving people a hope for winning
    big money sort of fast. Then after a while of play u will loose all and trying to get those back u will loose more… If u quit playing after a short while after just won some, then when u get back to that brand of casino, and try your luck again u will be unlucky that day. I dont think there exist any player in SL that with the same AV have try winning money and kept playing and winning, If that has happen which it should occasionally with all those players, then that must be the only casino that has random cards.

  35. The Casino Man

    Mar 20th, 2007

    Hello, I agree with everyone that says stuff about casinos being unfair. I am just saying stuff to get on the internet. Hi mom and dad! (I still live with my parents but I am okay with it.) They buy me presents on my birthday. I have a lot of money in SL becaam smart and rich. I currently have L$94,334 without spending any real life money. haha suckers!

  36. Zmajrgf

    Jun 3rd, 2007

  37. Zmajrgf

    Jun 3rd, 2007

  38. Claudia Mantis

    Jul 1st, 2007

    Oh yeah won 370k in the morning….lost it in the evening like settings were changed. Saw the owner change a win setting on another machine n i bet it possible on the Blackjack too.

  39. Keira

    Jul 6th, 2007

    I just lost my 750L I’ve been saving for quite a while.
    Yeah, it’s not as much as you lost. xD But for me, as a newbie. >_< It’s horrible. I was saving up for a skin and saw this machine and started to bet more, and suddenly I had 0L left. Gah.

  40. SCI FI Tech

    Aug 5th, 2007

    Peer Review: Second Life bans gambling

    Second Life banned gambling this week in a preemptive move to avoid running up against American and international regulations. Casino owners were furious, as it was unclear what would…

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