Hell is Other People: The LA Times Gets to the Bottom of SL’s Growing Pains
by Alphaville Herald on 22/02/07 at 10:08 pm
If you are coming from the Feb. 22 LA Times article… I dunno…just know that we really really hate the Lakers. Or as we call them, the Hollywood Fakers. If you already read the article, then let me save you some trouble, and suggest that you use this link for sex, cybersex, and beyond.
If you haven’t read the article by Alana Semuels, which has been long in the works, I guess the key thing to know is that it is a reasonable MSM attempt at covering the current growing pains in Second Life, as the meatspace corporations invade and the indigenous tribes protest. Cyberlebrities quoted include the ever sensible Second Life Liberation Army’s Marshal Cahill, the meek and soft-spoken Prokofy Neva, the oh so modest Urizenus Sklar, and Electric Sheep’s luddite ruler Sibley Verbeck and many others including Nimrod Yaffle. If you needed more reason to think that the LA Times was highbrow, there is also the infamous quote from John Paul Sartre — “Hell is Other People” — which, come to think of it, is a good one line explanation of why Second Life sucks, but then again it also explains why the whole world sucks unless you find a platform that no one else is using.
By the way, the online article (requires registration) features a picture of Prok’s RL typist and it will probaby feature in a major way in future Something Awful productions, but I couldn’t help but think that this is how 9 out of 10 women in Ann Arbor look. Which just goes to show…something or other.
Petey
Feb 22nd, 2007
A COUNCIL OF ELVES
I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed at that line.
Still, I must say I’m somewhat indignant. Most of the MSM outlets covering this SLLA thing have been calling it “the first Second Life terrorist attack.”
I’ll admit it. After having been called a terrorist by Prokofy for so long, I couldn’t help but feel a little…betrayed, I suppose.
I mean, come on, *anyone* can drop a nuke. It’s trite. It’s cliche. I like new and exciting griefs. Progressive griefs. I like to consider SomethingAwful the King Crimson of griefing. You never quite know what is happening next…
Nah, I don’t see us using that picture anytime soon. Although I *had* been unfamiliar with the giant refrigerator meme. Thanks for the idea, Prok.
urizenus
Feb 22nd, 2007
Then who is the Robert Frip of griefing?
urizenus
Feb 22nd, 2007
*Fripp
Petey
Feb 22nd, 2007
The leader? The only constant member? The inspirational genius?
I mean come on. Is there really a question?
Plastic Duck for GTO Jedi.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 22nd, 2007
>”You’re seeing these little indigenous communities and fantastical creatures being forced out by 20th century corporations coming in,” he said. For instance, the head of a council of elves — one of the earliest groups present in-world — left the game amid the changes, he said.
“One day, the elves were banging on their drums and making elf tunics,” she said. “And the next thing you know, Nissan comes in and starts giving away free cars.”
< As that “head of a council of elves” (LOL I agree, a funny use of terminology) I have to say that if the rest of that article is as unfactual as the above statements– it doesn’t have much substance (and I’ll be honest, I didn’t have more time than to scan the rest).
To set the matter straight, the corporate identities coming into SL had nothing to do with me leaving Second Life, and Elven drums didn’t stop beating just because Nissan started giving away free cars (in fact, I picked one up and test drove it around the top of my castle.
)
The reason I left SL is because I just got tired of poor LL company policies, lack of customer support and consistently bad decisions (for a start). That was the back-breaker of long existing issues of which everyone is aware– the terminal cancer of lag, login issues, Copybot, repetitious security breaches (the SAME security breaches, over and over), excessive long-term bugs, self-changing permissions and the resultant loss of significant merchant lines, a related issue of destroyed inventory caused by faulty asset-server maintenance, misrepresentation of facts, increasing prices, etc etc ad nauseum. It all boiled down to the fact that Linden Lab proved to be an untrustworthy company interested more in their bottom line than in satisfied customers, an extremely unstable and destructive platform, and the fact that Second Life was becoming less and less fun with every update. Add to that the fact that Elf Clan was paying through the nose, prime fees for what amounted to severely unstable beta-test product– and THAT is why I left Second Life. That is why the Elf Clan Counsel decided a month later to abandon the platform as an entire group.
We’re not the only ones to have made such a decision. It’s just that we were the largest and most well-known group to make such a decision. The fact that Linden Lab appeared to not give a fig validated that decision. I have been known to point this out before: a company that fails to appreciate and support its customers is doomed to lose those customers.
As of this date, SL demographic evidence indicates LL has lost some 3.6 million potential customers. Facts prove that SL retains less than 9% of its registered population as active members. Of that 9%, consisting of “Free”, “Basic” and “Premium” members (in addition to a very large number ALTs and camping-chair users artificially inflating “resident” figures), it is understood that a far, far smaller percentage are actual paying subscribers.
That Linden Lab seems to believe this is not their fault, that business is going great, is just plain goofy. And that too, is why I left. Unstable company, unstable platform, unstable viewpoint. Recipe for disaster… and a very, very poor investment both in time and money (sorry for being so logical here. I know a lot of folks get emotional about SL, but facts is facts). The Elf Clan Counsel just decided to stop sinking money into an apparently sinking ship.
So… sorry LA Times. Before you start commenting on the ways of Elven (and thanks for the mention BTW, there’s my 15 seconds of fame… LOL), you might want to actually contact the founder of the group and see if your facts are straight. Our leaving had nothing to do with corporations entering into the grid (as I had previously established here on the Herald itself). I’ve always felt there was room for both… IF the platform was more stable.
As it is though, it was kind of a LOTR-type ending. LL starts catering to corporations and the Elven sail off into the seas. Yup, fitting finale. Not caused by the corporations, but fitting nevertheless.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 23rd, 2007
Wayfinder, nobody said you left SL because of Nissan, that’s stupid. I certainly didn’t say it, and I didn’t imply that Nissan eradicated the little folk, that’s stupid. These articles always come off sounding very facile because you might talk to the journalist for 45 minutes but they use one quote.
But what’s clear from my quote is that there’s a *contrast*. One minute you’re in elf-land in the mists and the glens and the dales, and the next minute whoops a Nissan drives by, it’s culture shock.
Nobody disagrees with the reasons you cite. After a few years, we can all cite them. It becomes very hard to go on tolerating the losses and such a high cost, and feel you there’s no consideration of your needs. On the other hand, I think we do have to give the Lindens credit for doing some of the things we have asked for, even if belatedly.
I’m really not seeing anything in this article that says it as pat as you seem to want to understand it. Basically, the elf thing is an emblem. It says that difficulties in making the utopia forced people out — the reality is, if I can’t read my transactions today inworld (first viewer strips that out n ow), if I can’t get updated transactions, if I can’t *find* my customers who just paid even in the People Finder because it has stopped putting new people in; if I can’t teleport to them; if I can’t put out a house because of rubber-banding — well who cares? Not all these metaverse sherpas that aren’t depending on a reliable platform reliably recording micropayments. That’s just for the chumps in the inworld economy, and our era is passing. I suppose the world that the original people worked to made, and which we added to in our way, was what attracted the big businesses and made them find it compelling, but then, they can bring in their own customers and take care of them, they don’t need for the world to be there beyond their islands. In fact the less world, the better.
urizenus
Feb 23rd, 2007
The article does give the impression that the elves were forced out, but if you read it carefully it says the Elf King “left amid the changes.”
It’s also worth considering, Way, that that poor Linden customer service that you received was in large part a function of the new Linden policy of catering to large corporate builds. They hitched their horse to that wagon and that meant that there wasn’t much time or effort invested in the indigenous groups like yours.
I think we have to weigh this article against the other MSM articles which for the most part still say things like “3 million residents” (note that this article uses the number to describe how many have tried SL) and can’t stop gushing about the corporate builds which, as we know, are desert islands.
FlipperPA Peregrine
Feb 23rd, 2007
That’s one of the worst articles I’ve ever seen on SL, heh. The reporter doesn’t both to get anything right: first calling SL a “game” (a forgivable oversight; it appears similar to many games), but then calling it a “website”?! Please, put a writer with any tech experience on it next time. And Prok, might be time to lose the 15″ CRT monitor, especially with all the time you spend in front of it! Modern LCDs are much nicer on the eyes and reduce the chance of getting migraines by significant percentages.
You don’t need to be “techi-wiki” to have common sense. That article fails to address that most of the scams in Second Life are directly parallel to those in first life: they prey on those who lack common sense. The usual hysteria from Urizenus was worth the read at least, comparing the arrival or RL businesses to the razing of the shire in LotR: priceless!
FlipperPA Peregrine
Feb 23rd, 2007
PS: Log in info for the L.A. times: yvilrjlhrrubha@mailinator.com with the passwords 123456
Prokofy Neva
Feb 23rd, 2007
But it is a game to most people, and they call it that. The PC police can’t stop them from being honest about their perceptions, and the way it feels.
Something that only works about half the time; which doesn’t even load or loses inventory; which might or might not lose you money — I call that a game, yes indeedy, a game that’s like “Russian roulette”.
I don’t suffer from migraines? I don’t know what that’s about. It implies that people must be cranky and suffer headaches if they criticize SL. But it’s worth criticizing.
I think Uri’s thesis is the operable one. LL is not even so much catering to the corporations, as to their sherpas.
The sherpas were the original FIC, which they catered to, giving them their head on the forums, and giving them all kinds of leads, perks, media steerage, etc. Then they guided them into the metaversal sherpa era, where they can all have lucrative positions serving as guides and builders and managers for the big companies. So they cater to the people they chose as their original feted ones — and keep on doing so.
Calderan Gregoire
Feb 23rd, 2007
Prokofy finally admits that Second Life is a game! You saw it here first folks!
Prokofy Neva
Feb 24th, 2007
Um, finally? No, don’t be ridiculous. I’ve called it a game for the more than 2 years I’ve been on it, a million times all over. You will never get the politically-correct police to get me to call it NOT a game. Knowing we’re supposed to call it not-a-game, I find myself oops even calling it a game to none other than Philip Linden that time I got to meet him in RL. It’s just a habit that won’t break.
And that’s what normal people call it. It’s a game. You play it. It’s a thing that has chance in it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes it pays out, sometimes it doesn’t. Game is what it is.
Panda
Feb 24th, 2007
So it’s now officially a Game, not a World. I’m glad we got that sorted.
Urizenus
Feb 24th, 2007
heaven forend that it be both.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 24th, 2007
>Wayfinder, nobody said you left SL because of Nissan, that’s stupid. I certainly didn’t say it, and I didn’t imply that Nissan eradicated the little folk, that’s stupid. These articles always come off sounding very facile because you might talk to the journalist for 45 minutes but they use one quote…. I’m really not seeing anything in this article that says it as pat as you seem to want to understand it. Basically, the elf thing is an emblem. — Prok< Prok, I appreciate the points you made. However, I wasn't referring to your article or statement-- I was referring to the article in the LA Times (and thought I clearly indicated such). I think its statement regarding the "elves" is pretty clear. I quote:
"You're seeing these little indigenous communities and fantastical creatures being forced out by 20th century corporations coming in," he said. For instance, the head of a council of elves — one of the earliest groups present in-world — left the game amid the changes..."
That's pretty clear Prok. He claims that "little indigenous communities and fantastical creatures" are "being forced out by 20th century corporations coming in". And he immediately follows up with "For instance..." and cites my leaving SL.
Which of course is totally inaccurate. 20th century coporations coming in to SL had nothing to do with my leaving the platform. I left because Linden Lab policies allowed a renegade officer to swipe 3 sims from my group... and Linden Lab as always refused to do anything about it. That, added to all the other garbage that constantly goes on daily on Second Life, was the straw that broke the camel's back. I got fed up with what I consider to be an extremely amateurish platform and amateurish company (and we are all entitled to our opinions). I decided to stop wasting my time and money investing in Linden Lab and a month later, the Elf Clan Counsel decided to follow suit. That decision had nothing to do with any corporate invasion of SL. The artile in the LA Times failed to verify their claim (by checking with me or the Counsel) and as a result they published inaccurate information.
>It becomes very hard to go on tolerating the losses and such a high cost, and feel you there’s no consideration of your needs. On the other hand, I think we do have to give the Lindens credit for doing some of the things we have asked for, even if belatedly. — Prok< After the stunts I've seen them pull over the last 2 1/2 years, I don't have to give them credit for anything. EVERY company does SOME things right. That doesn't validate the nonsense that goes on every single day, the massive problems caused to customers as a result, or the company's continued lack of concern for the wellfare of their customers. All one has to do is read this blog, the SL official Blog, or the forums to see customer discontent echoed every day of the week. Now we see these sentiments echoed by such respected national sources as PC Magazine. What more can I say? It's not my desire to continually badmouth Second Life or Linden Lab nor to bust their chops all the time. But neither am I going to give them a nod of approval for what I (and others) consider to be rather shoddy, barely-beta-stage work and charging their customers through the nose for such.
>It’s also worth considering, Way, that that poor Linden customer service that you received was in large part a function of the new Linden policy of catering to large corporate builds. They hitched their horse to that wagon and that meant that there wasn’t much time or effort invested in the indigenous groups like yours. — Urizenus< That's possible of course. It's difficult to tell what is going on behind the scenes. But I have noticed more than once (and seen commented by others more than once) that quite often LL seems to have a double-standard, depending on where the money is coming from. That would certainly back up your claim Uri. All I know is that as large as Elf Clan was and active as it was and as much as it had accomplished, Linden Lab didn't seem to give a flying rat's hiney about what happned to the group. They had plenty of warning, I tried to work with them, they didn't seem to care. So Elf Clan stopped caring, and we closed it down. As you say, their uncaring attitude could have been because they were catering to a new clientele with a lot more $$$. It's difficult to tell and I make no aspersions without concrete evidence. All I know for sure is that they didn't care about one of the most successful groups on the grid-- so in my book they pretty much deserve whatever consequenses result.
>But it is a game to most people, and they call it that. The PC police can’t stop them from being honest about their perceptions, and the way it feels.
Something that only works about half the time; which doesn’t even load or loses inventory; which might or might not lose you money — I call that a game, yes indeedy, a game that’s like “Russian roulette”. — Prok< Agreed 100% Prok. Well stated. Some people claim it's a "society"... but what kind of society exists without rules or ethics (and please, don't anyone cite the TOS as "rules"... those rules apply only so far as LL considers them to benefit their company). Some people claim it's a business-- but as Prok states, it's more of a gambling game than a business-- where tomorrow's profits can depend on the next major inventory-destroying bug or unfriendly change in LL policies. Some claim SL is an "experiement". Well, I can't disagree with that. Usually it seems, an experiment in just how much more BS their customers are willing to take.
Someone back there quoted the constant claim of "residency" on each login screen. We've commented about those bogus figures for months on http://elfclan.net. Why? Not to bust LL’s chops, but to get both that company and its customers to wake up to reality– the Second Life business plan is not working. Yet LL continues to follow the same, old, tired plan.
So yeah Prok, while at one time I did not consider it a “game”, now I find I am forced to agree with you. A badly designed, badly written, badly managed game. For those who love SL despite all… sorry, no intention to offend. But that’s how the axe falls. I don’t pretend something is rosy when it’s pushing up roses.
Prokofy Neva
Feb 24th, 2007
Well, Wayfinder, you’re like someone on methadone maintenance. If you left Second Life and took the red pill, well, take it, and don’t obsess on forums about picayune bullshit. I’m sure it feels wrong to you to have your community made more of an emblem than you like, but somebody drew the conclusions and while it’s not a perfect fit, it does tell the story.
Uri isn’t implying that elves have been eradicated. They are still there. You might have left. Others may hvae. But the issues you had with SL in fact included what everyone’s issues are — they are emblematic — and they really do have to do with the Lindens chosing fast growth, big numbers, and marketing companies over their indigenous world population, so to speak. And that’s a fact.
Uri’s statement hits the nail on the head:
“>It’s also worth considering, Way, that that poor Linden customer service that you received was in large part a function of the new Linden policy of catering to large corporate builds. They hitched their horse to that wagon and that meant that there wasn’t much time or effort invested in the indigenous groups like yours. — Urizenus< "
That's the bottom line.
>I don’t pretend something is rosy when it’s pushing up roses.
That’s a funny expression, never heard that one!
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Feb 28th, 2007
Well Prok, point is I’ve seen enough slander and lies and propaganda and assumptions about the Elf Clan issue on SL, blogs and elsewhere, that I didn’t feel like standing by while the LA TIMES of all publications added to the nonsense. I *will* defend Elf Clan on this or other blogs when/if such becomes necessary. I’ve put up with enough “miscommunication” to last several lifetimes.
While I won’t deny that Linden Lab’s attitude toward Elf Clan may have been affected by their growing interest in $$$ funded by major corporations (and a resultant lack of interest in other things)– I have no direct evidence of such. The reason we ceased financial support of the SL platform was because LL didn’t care one bit about the welfare of our group. We just got tired of pumping money and effort into such a company, especially with the platform so consistently shaky and unreliable. We got tired of the hassles and the expense– and shut down the cash flow. Which is what a lot more people should be doing if they really want to get their point across.
Whatever happened behind the scenes, (other than major LL attitude) I have no idea. Like you and Uri, I have definitely seen evidence of LL catering to the corporate agencies and certainly to their own corporate welfare rather than the welfare of those who helped make SL interesting. But as for any direct opposition by Elf Clan to corporations setting up sims on SL or any relationship between that and our ceasing to support the platform– contrary to the LA Times article– there simply was none. Our tiff was with LL customer support and ethical policies– or more accurately– lack thereof. While I could provide more extensive details, it’s really a waste of time. SL lost one of its largest and most active groups. LL doesn’t care. They can take a flying leap– my RL is doing great.