King Bruno Ziskey of Sparta
by Pixeleen Mistral on 02/06/07 at 12:43 pm
by Tundra Koba, war correspondent
I’ve was lucky to interview Bruno Ziskey, leader of Sparta, the most creative military group I’ve seen so far in Second Life. Sparta is quickly increasing on its numbers and is creating the most powerful non-grieving guns for a military group in Second life I’ve seen. Who better to describe the group then the group leader, Bruno Ziskey, King Of Sparta,
Bruno said, “Sparta exists to role play as what Sparta may have been like if it had survived to the future, where ships and robots are the normal. Besides that, Sparta also is responsible for protecting New Sparta, our floating base of operations. Spartan soldiers live the Spartan ideals of loyalty, honor, discipline, and a ferocity in battle that is second to none. Included in this ferocity is the Spartan custom to die in battle rather than to surrender, thus the motto of Spartan is “Molon Labe,” in reference to the words of King Leonidas at the battle of Thermopylae. Spartans are known for their courage and fairness to all, and act according to the Spartan ideals both off and on the field of battle.”
Then King Bruno Ziskey took a deep breath.
Sparta has a powerful airforce and navy – of Greek origin
I asked the King a couple of questions about his army, naturally. The first question was, “Why would want to join Sparta?”. He replied “We have a Greek theme, we don’t just call ourselves Sparta and end it there. We immerse ourselves in the Greek world. Our ships, weapons and ranks are all from Greek origin. We live and abide by strict rules of engagement and behavior, unlike some other militaries in Second life.”
I asked him how long he would estimate the Sparta group to last in Second life. He replied simply, a few years perhaps more. He describes his divisions in his army starting with his air force. “Led by the brave Air General Eragon Thielt, this flying terror provides air recon, air support, escort duty, and just plain superior fire power”.
Superior fire power
Next, the King describes the navy, “The Spartan Navy- the best trained Navy in SL, with ships from Corvettes to Carriers to Super battleships. jakkar Lok leads this brave fighting force, ensuring that no enemy is safe from a Spartan ship”.
He went on to praise the Spartan Phalanx Division as a merciless group of elites trained to take a enemy unit down within seconds of a command.
When I wondered why he thought they army was unique King Ziskey replied, “We’re different from AN and mercz, as we live by different codes and don’t rely much on other groups.”
Strong words to keep, but they come from a strong King. Tundra Koba out.
Sparta in action
Sparta’s technological edge?
Artemis Fate
Jun 6th, 2007
“Spartans of history were less like the “NEVER SURRENDER!” machismo archetype so many of us tend to imagine, and subscribed more to the “Victory, through whatever means necessary” school of thought. Outnumbered by a superior force, Spartans would run, hide, steal, sabotage, and just generally fight dirty by using every advantage they had. But who wants to put that image onto an army in SL, when you can go with the more popular stereotype instead.”
Good point, I hear stories in Spartan training about how they’d purposefully half starve trainees in an attempt to force them to learn to steal for the rest of their food. However, the main statement that I get this military tactic from is the famous spartan quote, I’m not sure where it comes from, “come back with your shields raised or on them”, essentially saying come back victorious or dead, the essence of the idea that there should be no retreat victory or death.
I could be wrong there however, hard to say what is myth and what is reality in far history, especially when a lot of history from that area (like the whole battle of Thermopylae) is based on Herodotus’ histories, who also claimed to talk to Apollo along the way, if I remember right.
“Says that you didn’t intend to insult them by calling them ageplaying homosexuals (pederasty, of course, being worthy of ridicule, which seems to get a pass in your eyes). However, you DID insult them by saying that because they claim to emulate Spartan culture (ignoring the fact they fly around in spaceships), and yet do not emulate every aspect, that their choice of SL experience is immature chest beating.”
No what I said was I never called them age playing homosexuals, I asked since they claimed to be a continuation of Spartan history in the future, if they had problems with age-play since Spartan military had to induct children young for proper training, and that one of their main tactics was using homosexuality to strengthen bonds between warriors. See that “?” at the end of each of those sentences? We call those “question marks”, they intend to question, not state. See! You can learn things in the SL Herald too!
“Yet, you’ve made it clear that you think they are immature kids worthy of ridicule. So, which is it? You have nothing against them, or they are chest beaters worthy of ridicule? We can play the “lets burying the other guy in semantics and reading comprehension backpeddling” game but its a waste of time. It’s obvious where you stand, and I think my stand should be obvious as well.
In any event, so, they want to have a SL military that uses some aspects of Spartan culture, notably fearlessness in battle, greek names, and possibly other aspects I am not aware of, and this is worthy of ridicule, because? Because their king didn’t specify which aspects they are and are not adopting and instead made a broad statement?”
I find it interesting you see it as ridicule, since no one else seems to, even the King Bruno Ziskey didn’t see it that way, nor did apparently anyone else but you. They claim that they are continuing the real life spartan theme, and so I questioned how far they were going with it, bringing up the more infamous aspects of Spartan history like them being an entirely gay army, or inducting children at 8, or having a crappy navy and being mostly land warriors. He answered by saying they pretty much only follow the whole credo of win or die.
“FYI: the US military follows the same “macho bullshit” tradition of “NEVER SUREENDER.”"
Wow you don’t understand the difference between that either? US military does not follow the same credo that Spartans supposedly did with their “come back with your shields raised or dead on it”, which basically means that if the battle isn’t victorious, then the Spartans will fight to the last man’s dead whether they have the means or not, even if it’s 1 versus 1000, the idea would be instead of (doing the sensible thing) retreating to regroup with more people, he would rush the 1000 and fight to the death. If they send out 100 men to a battle the expectation was, they’d come back victorious or they’d have to haul back 100 dead bodies. Nothing else. The US Military definitely does NOT encourage or practice that. Even the second conduct you pointed out as an example of it, is a good example of how it’s NOT like it: “If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available”, but according to that credo, you don’t get captured, because you don’t surrender, you fight until you win or die. (yes, I had to state it over and over with different examples, I fear you won’t understand it unless I speak slowly and repeat myself often)
Luca Vasilopita
Jun 6th, 2007
The flames rage on!
It should be noted that there’s a world of difference between the social normality of homosexuality, and the homoeroticism and acts that are incited in an all male environment. Whilst it is true that in the case of the Spartans homosexuality was a form of bonding and improvement of cameradie, it is also what is seen as “the next best thing” to just being celibite for sometimes years a time when there are no women about. This is omnipresent in militaries throughout history.
The idea of death before dishonor through surrender or retreat is too something that comes up with alot of military doctrines throughout history. Samurai, Spartans, Legionnaires, Cossacks, Picts, Celts, Gurkhas, Royal Marines… examples are everywhere. I don’t think it’s possible to explain in broad or specific terms how the idea works unless you are totally devoted to an ideal, and would rather defend it to the death than be shamed with defeat. Only the few who have been put into a fight or flight situation where they were outgunned could understand fully.
I do think that the sheer amount of misinterpretation of statements and retorts to this article have gone overboard though, considering this has become little more than a benzine enhanced flamewar.
Tharik Oyen
Jun 6th, 2007
@Artemis:
You really are a piece of work. No matter how much you try to deny that you didn’t start posting in this thread with the intention of trying to insult, its painfully obvious that all you wanted to do was troll from the start.
Your first post was a very obvious veiled insult. You more or less said you think they are immature kids. It does not matter that you used a series of sarcastic, rhetorical questions to make said insult.
As to your comment about military history, I direct you to Ethan Schuman’s post.
PS. Save the trite and overused sarcasm. Coming from a 23yr old child like you its just plain silly.
Luca Vasilopita
Jun 6th, 2007
Werd
Reality
Jun 6th, 2007
Here’s a thought to all the Second Life and Real Life Military brats (and no, your status does not earn you my respect – this is the internet, it is irrelevant and any mention of it a bald faced attempt to score brownie points with the supposed ‘patriots’): Stop looking for reasons to tear into someone for daring to point out the flaws in a Role Playing Group and actually do what other, mature people do: Read the critique (be it positive or negative), laugh off the parts that do not apply (in this case the reference to 300) and move on, hmm?
Now to get to a few of the things I have up there in Parenthesis: First and foremost here is the reason so many of you gun toting twits – and yes I am a bit peeved here, deal with it – seem to be lashing out. Try to actually face the fact that most people – and indeed most serious Role Players – are going to examine a group which makes the sort of claims this “Sparta” group has: The claim that they have taken the values and teachings of an ancient culture and integrated them into their own RP Group, then thrust that culture far into the future. Now I personally have been involved in a lot of text only Role Play (you know, that thing that exists outside of Second Life) and I have to say … Even the least fanatical kind of Historic Role Player would have long ago laughed you out of any place but your own, private areas. You did no research, integrated only what you wanted to/liked and then slapped a label on it while at the same time claiming to be carrying on the traditions of the culture you pillaged for your ideas. Small wonder someone called you on it: Grow up, be as mature as you wish others to be, suck up the comments and move the fuck on.
The second part I want to touch on here is aimed directly at Tharik: There is absolutely no excuse for you to wave your supposed Real Life Military background around like it is some kind of banner or flag which somehow makes you better than others or more worthy of praise. If you had any honor at all you’d have actually thought about it and left out whatever supposed ‘status’ you have. People like you make me sick to my fucking stomach … Grow the fuck up kid: The people that never made it back, the people mangled by war, the people who were changed in such a manner as to make it impossible for them to ever live among civilians or their families again, they are the ones worthy of respect. They went to war and gave up far more than they ever bargained for – some of them come back so radically changed that even their spouses leave them in the dust, some do not come back at all. Christ, the Veterans of World War II and of Vietnam deserve more respect than you do, some of them came back mentally scarred for life. Mind telling me what went on in that head of your’s to make you think you had to put your ‘status’ in your comment?
On second thought – do not answer that last question, I do not want to know. drop the bullshit, drop the defensive act, drop the nonexistent superiority and attempt to respond in a manner befitting a person capable of mature, rational thought, ok?
Tharik Oyen
Jun 6th, 2007
@Artemis:
One other thing ref US code of conduct as compared to Spartan ideals.
“but according to that credo, you don’t get captured, because you don’t surrender, you fight until you win or die.”
How does “never surrender” mean one can never be captured?
So, a soldier is outnumbered 10 to 1; he rushes the enemy guns a’blazing fully expecting to die, but at least hoping to take some badguys out in the process; he is shot in the chest with a 7.62; the round doesn’t penetrate his body armor and he is knocked to the ground stunned and out of breath unable to move; the enemy beats him senseless and he wakes up in a prison.
How did the soldier NOT follow the code of conduct and “Spartan” ideals in that example thereby “allowing” himself to be captured?
Artemis Fate
Jun 6th, 2007
“You really are a piece of work. No matter how much you try to deny that you didn’t start posting in this thread with the intention of trying to insult, its painfully obvious that all you wanted to do was troll from the start.
Your first post was a very obvious veiled insult. You more or less said you think they are immature kids. It does not matter that you used a series of sarcastic, rhetorical questions to make said insult.”
Heh, actually, you’re right there. It was a veiled insult to at the last part. But i’m arguing because you said I was calling them ageplaying homosexuals. Not because I insinuated that they knew nothing about Sparta from outside of the movie/book 300. I never actually denied that.
“The idea of death before dishonor through surrender or retreat is too something that comes up with alot of military doctrines throughout history. Samurai, Spartans, Legionnaires, Cossacks, Picts, Celts, Gurkhas, Royal Marines… examples are everywhere. I don’t think it’s possible to explain in broad or specific terms how the idea works unless you are totally devoted to an ideal, and would rather defend it to the death than be shamed with defeat. Only the few who have been put into a fight or flight situation where they were outgunned could understand fully.”
I would say they were used in different ways (since almost all of them would allow tactical retreats as being honorable), but that’s the point i’m getting at. You strip all those little things about Sparta off because you don’t like them in an attempt to recreate Sparta in the future, besides the whole “Win or die” principle, and it’s not really all that Spartan anymore.
Tharik Oyen
Jun 6th, 2007
For the sake of being historically accurate:
Spartans did NOT rush willy-nilly into insurmountable odds only to pointlessly die.
The Battle of Thermopylae, for instance, which is the oft cited example of Spartan courage and the subject of the movie 300 (or more accurately, the movie is based on the comic book which in turn is based on history), is significant from a military history standpoint in that it is an early example of utilizing terrain to maximize a defender’s potential.
The Spartans did not say “Hey lets go charge an army that outnumbers us by insurmountable odds because we are Spartans! HUZZAH!”
It was a well planned out and sensible defense that only failed when they were betrayed by one of their own.
They succeeded in holding off the Persians long enough and doing enough damage so that the Athenians could later defeat the Persians at sea. The sacrifice and courage of the Spartans likely saved many Greeks from unspeakable torment and terror at the hands of the Persians.
In RL Spartan bravery and military skill is quite literally, legendary.
It is worthy of praise and emulation (and has been both praised and emulated by militaries throughout history) not ridicule by a 23yr old recent college grad, art student obsessed with masturbation.
Tharik Oyen
Jun 6th, 2007
*yawn*
Figured this would run its course.
Probably was a silly thing in the first place to jump on a troll, that is afterall what they want.
“i’m arguing because you said I was calling them ageplaying homosexuals.”
Nope, never did, my issue was from the start with the veiled insult tagged at the end of your first post.
In any case “Reality”:
“this is the internet, it is irrelevant”
Not sure I quite understand how some people think the Internet is a magical realm where anything and everything in RL is completely irrelevant. I wonder, are those the same people whose real life IS quite irrelevant?
What exactly is a “serious Role Player” ?
Sounds very much like an oxymoron to me.
As far as your comments ref my service:
I WILL answer your question. I put it in there to pre-empt any BS like “You are a wannabe!” It was not meant to claim I am somehow better, but I guess that’s how you read it, not my mistake. Am I proud? Of course I am. If you ever served, in any capacity, you should / would be too.
I have enjoyed video wargames all my life, even before I joined the Army. 2nd Life isn’t the best combat game to be sure, but it’s about the only one I know of that you can build and script your own weapons.
As far as this:
“people that never made it back, the people mangled by war, the people who were changed in such a manner as to make it impossible for them to ever live among civilians or their families again, they are the ones worthy of respect.”
I don’t disagree, but I wonder, are you saying that those that put themselves in harm’s way and were lucky enough not to end up a casualty are NOT worthy of respect? Those that answered the call to service and left their families for a year and sometimes more to do their duty are not worthy of respect? That is NOT sacrifice in your eyes?
“attempt to respond in a manner befitting a person capable of mature, rational thought, ok?”
You mean with phrases like this:
“People like you make me sick to my fucking stomach … Grow the fuck up kid”
“Grow up, be as mature as you wish others to be, suck up the comments and move the fuck on.”
?
So, you rant on about how some people are not being mature because they aren’t laughing off trolls as well as accuse me of some kind of superiority complex AND THEN go on to lash out at everyone, and tell us about how superior your “Serious Role-Playing is” ?
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, you should take your own advice.
Reality
Jun 6th, 2007
Tharik, kid, please do yourself a favor in the future and don’t attempt to disassemble a person’s comment in an attempt to make yourself sound superior, hmm?
Until such a time as you are capable of taking things at face vale – and figuring out when a person is both enraged and sickened by the words they chose to use – you are nothing but a kid fresh out of the service and fresh out of combat.
To answer one of your questions kid: As far as I am concerned, the ones that never come back, the ones that come back alive and mangled, the ones that come back changed so much that it breaks and destroys everything they once had …. They have made a real, tangible sacrifice. They are far more deserving of respect than any other because of what they lost.
You got lucky – good for you. The fact that you survived, possibly with no ill effects or a broken life, makes you no less worthy of respect …. It does not, however, place you on the same level as all those who paid both the ultimate price in losing their lives and those whose lives were shattered so throughly by war that they may as well have never come home.
In addition to the above, you may want to grow a bit thicker skin kid – you’re going to run into people that get disgusted at the attitude you’ve shown so far in your responses … and at the gall of bringing your service record into the discussion at all.
All of that said – nice job at putting words into my post which were never present kid. Not once did I claim to be superior in anything – I stated what I have seen and guess what kid? This Spartan group is a Role Playing group, therefore it follows suit that it should be treated like any other such group … Which, by the by, includes people calling them on stating one thing and putting into practice another.
Thank you for demonstrating an inability to properly read a comment and respond in a manner that shows you actually put thought into the information – next time you decide to respond to me, you might try either putting more thought into what has been typed or perhaps asking for clarification.
take care kid – enjoy thinking that you do not come across with an overly superior attitude.
Tharik Oyen
Jun 6th, 2007
“don’t attempt to disassemble a person’s comment in an attempt to make yourself sound superior”
I didn’t need to disassemble anything. You talk about me getting a thicker skin, yet here you are “enraged and sickened.” Who’s saying who is superior? All I did from the begining is call a troll a troll. Pretty pointless, I admit, *shrug*.
“It does not, however, place you on the same level as all those who paid both the ultimate price ”
Never claimed I was.
“you’re going to run into people that get disgusted at the attitude you’ve shown ”
Woe is me. I managed to piss off a fellow forum-goer. Why are you still responding then, thick-skin and all?
“Not once did I claim to be superior in anything”
So, somehow I was claiming to be superior, but YOU aren’t claiming to be superior by preaching to us about maturity and letting us know how your RL experience with “Serious Role-Playing” somehow makes you more qualified to tell us all about non-serious or otherwise Role-playing.
“decide to respond to me, you might try either putting more thought into what has been typed or perhaps asking for clarification”
Why? Why would I even bother trying to have a thoughtful conversation with someone who is full of piss and vinegar?
Seriously, go back to your “serious” role-playing and let us “kids” entertain ourselves.
Reality
Jun 6th, 2007
Are you being serious Tharik or just being deliberately obtuse?
Never mind, I know the answer to that question already and quite frankly I am not surprised in the least … Quite simply put – in words you might actually be able to understand:
1. Nowhere was I preaching, claiming any sort of superiority or any such other thing in my description of how this group upon which the article is based would be treated among groups other than Second Life combat groups.
2. So far as I can tell, Artemis noted that Second Life’s ‘Sparta’, which claims to follow the ideals of the real ancient Sparta, does not in fact follow many of those historically noted ideals, traditions and practices. It was therefore a rather logical conclusion to make that this was just another group caught up in the hype of a movie.
3. Nice attempt to put my own words back on me. You failed miserably however kid. Do you know why? I’m sure you knew – being in the service and all, you must have known any mention of the more recent wars would be a hot button for some.
I’ll leave it at that for now – I’m quite sure that at some point, you’ll once more make some sort of attempt – like many similar to you – to twist my words around.
You’re welcome to try kid … But please, be a bit more original and less predictable.
Tharik Oyen
Jun 6th, 2007
Are you being serious or just so hopelessly deluded that you don’t understand how it is that you aren’t practicing what you preach?
1. Yes, you were, indirectly and otherwise. Frankly, how does what “serious role-players” would think in regards to the group this article is based matter?
2. Artemis was trolling any way you slice it. Let’s assume they are another group caught up in the hype of the movie? SO WHAT? Let’s assume for an instant that these guys ARE a bunch of immature kids playing army. What does that make the self-proclaimed “adults” (with doses of “reality”) admonishing them? “Stop! Stop! You idiots got it all wrong!! The Cowboys had the rifles and the Indians had the bows, except later on, in fact, let me relate a history lesson…” *kids staring blankly*: “ummm… we don’t care, we are just enjoying ourselves.”
3. So I pushed your buttons now? The more you keep responding the more you betray your own claims of “thick-skin” and “mature” behavior. Your posts are dripping with as much vitriol and sarcasm as Artemis’s.
“please, be a bit more original and less predictable”
Better yet, how about you just go argue with your “serious role-players” instead?
Reality
Jun 7th, 2007
Kid – get one thing straight here m’kay? A critical comment or two was aimed at this group that you and others did not like … Get over it. It happens all the time – please whine and cry some more and make further attempts to puff your chest.
Matter? Hmm, let me see here now … This and all other Military, Fantasy, Sci-Fi, etc groups in Second Life are – that’s right kid – Role Play! Learn to take the critical comments you are bound to get, m’kay?
frankly kid, you’re apparently lacking that nice and nifty ability to properly read what is being written. trust me, my ‘vitriol’ and ‘sarcasm’ are usually saved for when a certain insane reporter (Prokofy) decides to rant and rave about some nonexistent slight. If you’re seeing any ‘vitriol’ or ‘sarcasm’, chances are …. You know jack shit about me.
If you’d like some ‘vitriol’ or ‘sarcasm’ …. Let me know m’kay kid? So far – I’ve treated you the way I’d treat anyone with an attitude problem.
Now please go back to whatever it is you do in whatever group you are with and stop pretending to know what you are talking about – you’ve missed the mark so many times in your responses to me that I have to wonder if you really do think before you type.
Artemis Fate
Jun 7th, 2007
“Artemis was trolling any way you slice it. Let’s assume they are another group caught up in the hype of the movie? SO WHAT? Let’s assume for an instant that these guys ARE a bunch of immature kids playing army. What does that make the self-proclaimed “adults” (with doses of “reality”) admonishing them? “Stop! Stop! You idiots got it all wrong!! The Cowboys had the rifles and the Indians had the bows, except later on, in fact, let me relate a history lesson…” *kids staring blankly*: “ummm… we don’t care, we are just enjoying ourselves.”"
Right. I’m trolling by stating my opinion. Infact, everyone is trolling. Everywhere. On any forum, where they state their opinion. You especially.
You know, you seem to have it mixed up on why I felt the need to question the reality of their situation. You seem to think that they just labeled themselves Sparta and I went “hey, no no no!” and criticized them for not being realistic here and there. If that were the case I wouldn’t have cared. Like your Cowboys and Indians example, the kids are making no claims to historical authenticity of any kind, just that they’re playing and this is how they chose to play. However, this, from the article, is what prompted me to respond:
“He replied “We have a Greek theme, we don’t just call ourselves Sparta and end it there. We immerse ourselves in the Greek world. Our ships, weapons and ranks are all from Greek origin.”
So naturally I questioned the validity of that statement, asking how far they took it, since they claim “we immerse ourselves in the Greek world” it’s understandable that they would be practicing spartan traditions and ideals, or it just would be “calling ourselves Sparta and ending it there”.
Tharik Oyen
Jun 7th, 2007
@Reality
“A critical comment or two was aimed at this group that you and others did not like … Get over it.”
Trolling. Period.
“Learn to take the critical comments you are bound to get, m’kay?”
Who’s the goofball here, the guy that calls a troll a troll, or the guy that likely hops from thread to thread “tellin’ everybody how it is?” “This dose of reality brought to you by…”, a meek little troll with too much time on his hands.
You’ll not find me posting in any other thread other than groups I am directly involved in. Why? Because trolling is just pathetic.
“If you’re seeing any ‘vitriol’ or ‘sarcasm’, chances are …. You know jack shit about me. If you’d like some ‘vitriol’ or ‘sarcasm’ …. Let me know m’kay kid?”
*shudder* I don’t want to know anything about you. Nor would anything you say matter.
“Now please go back to whatever it is you do in whatever group you are”
Don’t you have a Renaissance Fair to attend? A Star Trek convention? Anime cosplay party?
@Artemis
“Right. I’m trolling by stating my opinion.”
Artemis, there is a difference between asking an honest question about to what extent they follow the Spartan culture and what you did. You knew the answer from the get go, and the only point of your first post was to insult and annoy, AKA TROLL.
Let’s take my Cowboy and Indian example. So the kids playing say something like, “We are playing the way Cowboys and Indians would have played in the future! We really get into Indian culture!” They then go on to mangle Native American culture and history, so THEN you are justified in calling kids idiots?
“So naturally I questioned the validity of that statement”
WHY? We both know your “question” was rhetorical. So, the King made a generalized statement that wasn’t accurate. BIG DEAL. If you really think they are immature kids, why the need to insult and annoy?
Bruno Ziskey
Jun 7th, 2007
I have a few comments for the three of you recent commentors.
Reality:
You keep trying to say that you don’t really care what other say, yet you keep posting replies to everything that Tharik says. Why is that? To prove Tharik wrong? How can you, when you know next to NOTHING about Sparta? What’s wrong with having a group that follows rules like not using orbits, nukes, caging weapons, etc and is more or less about having FUN?! I thought that was the whole point of SL…fun.
Artemis:
You, my friend, are a piece of work. You keep contradicting yourself every time you post. I think I now know how the Alliance Navy feels, having to prove themselves from accusations from idiots like you who know next to nothing about the group they’re commenting on, they just don’t like military groups, and they thrive on disrupting any talks on anything they don’t like. This is called TROLLING.
Tharik:
My friend, as one who is currently enrolled in Annapolis Naval Academy, I salute you for your bravery in the military. It is hard to find good people these days who truly understand the military and its comradeship. Thank you for everything you’ve said, even if it was not all directly in defense of my group. You, Phantom, and all the members of the AN who have posted here have shown the only bits of sanity in the posts here.
For anyone else who even thinks of trolling here, remember that a group doesnt always have to make sense to be fun. Sparta is a group that uses non-griefing weapons, goes through serious training, and has our own base. If you would like to meet us and let us dispel any thought of what people like Artemis and Reality are saying, please IM me in-world. I would be glad to show you around our base and let you talk to our people. We don’t just let anybody in, everyone who joins is looked at to make sure they can handle the training and have the dedication needed to be in a military group and work as a team.
Xairete!
Bruno Ziskey
King of Sparta
Tharik Oyen
Jun 7th, 2007
The King hit on what I believe is the root of it all right here:
“they just don’t like military groups, and they thrive on disrupting any talks on anything they don’t like.”
AMEN.
Personally, if someone made a news article about a new SL life group called the Turd-Eaters; a group that lives on a sim covered in feces and is obsessed with scatology, I would have nothing to say. Of course, I’d be somewhat amazed and disgusted, but I certainly wouldn’t even bother to post in said thread. Why? Because I don’t care what they do / think, they are wackos in my eyes.
This is the difference between normal people and trolls.
Trolls want to disrupt anything they don’t like / agree with / have some BS elitist attitude about. If they really thought us military types were in someway socially retarded or otherwise unstable, why do they even bother trying to get our attention?
Because they are trolls, its what they do.
Bruno:
Annapolis, huh? I *am* impressed. Good for you man. Best of luck to you as well. You must be a very dedicated person to begin with to be able to make it into Annapolis!
Artemis Fate
Jun 7th, 2007
“Let’s take my Cowboy and Indian example. So the kids playing say something like, “We are playing the way Cowboys and Indians would have played in the future! We really get into Indian culture!” They then go on to mangle Native American culture and history, so THEN you are justified in calling kids idiots?”
Would like to point out here that I never called them immature kids (you did), I jokingly exaggerated leet speak in the question if they were just following the hype of the movie, i’ve only seen two members talk, Tundra, who seems to spell just as bad and calls a fair unbiased news story this gushing love-letter, and Bruno Ziskey, who seems to be an intelligent and rational guy. So when I question whether or not this group of adults chooses to follow a greek path and apparently (as far as I can tell, by asking questions, oh wait, no sorry, by trolling) does nothing to follow it besides a thing here and there, I question that, yes. Get over it. People have opinions you don’t like. That doesn’t make it trolling.
“So, the King made a generalized statement that wasn’t accurate. BIG DEAL. If you really think they are immature kids, why the need to insult and annoy?”
Well besides the one vague question/criticize of the first statement, and the criticization of Tundra’s flagrant bias (which is less about the group and more about him), I haven’t insulted or criticized the group much since, just defended my positions from someone who is insulting and criticizing me.
“You, my friend, are a piece of work. You keep contradicting yourself every time you post.”
Really? Can you point out an example of that?
“I think I now know how the Alliance Navy feels, having to prove themselves from accusations from idiots like you who know next to nothing about the group they’re commenting on, they just don’t like military groups, and they thrive on disrupting any talks on anything they don’t like.”
I didn’t accuse or disrupt, I asked. You answered. Rationally and rather nicely, I was pretty much ready to drop it there or continue a nice debate about how much of Spartan culture you wanted to use, until your buddy-buddy Tharik came in and started assaulting me. So if you want to thank anyone for disrupting, you should thank him.
“This is called TROLLING.”
Please. This is called debating. Arguing. Talking. This is called having different opinions. This is called disagreeing. THIS is called trolling:
“Lenin would not approve of space spartans.”
“Also everyone knows space spartans crave cock and probably have furry yiff gear on their gay little AIDs infested spaceship.”
“No wimminz on the internet. gb2/thekitchen/ and make me a sandwich”
If you can’t defend your statements of following greek culture but apparently having little to do with greek culture besides spattering a name here and there, then just say you don’t want to argue it and you like it how it is whether it’s accurate or not. Not taking the low road like Tharik and making false accusations and repeating them over and over until you believe they’re true.
Tharik Oyen
Jun 7th, 2007
Oh good grief Artemis!
Not “only” did you “jokingly exaggerate leet speak” (something that is synonymous with immature behavior, which of course was why you used it- to insult), you peppered your other replies with references to masturbation attempting to humiliate the author!
“a fair unbiased news story” ?
In fantasy land (SL)? Are you out of your mind? You’d be hard pressed to find “fair and unbiased” news in RL and you want authors in SL to have rigid journalistic integrity? Who cares what the author calls it? Its fantasy land for goodness sake.
“Bruno Ziskey, who seems to be an intelligent and rational guy”
He outright called you an IDIOT! So, he is intelligent and rational, AND he thinks that YOU are an idiot, what does that tell you?
“So when I question whether or not this group of adults chooses to follow a greek path”
You will not for one instant convince me that you honestly thought that perhaps this was a group of age-playing homosexuals and you thought your question was a well-meaning, well-intentioned question. Any indication that it was anything other than rhetorical is a bold-faced lie on your part. By all means though, keep back-peddling.
“just defended my positions from someone who is insulting and criticizing me.”
You mean you tried to pretend that you seriously had any interest in this group at all.
“was pretty much ready to drop it there or continue a nice debate about how much of Spartan culture you wanted to use”
BS. Was this nice debate going to come before or after you finished with your obsessive comments about masturbation?
“THIS is called trolling:
“Lenin … spartans crave … furry yiff gear … AIDs infested spaceship…”
Hahah… no those are beyond trolling. That’s just blatant outright nonsense. I actually got a good laugh over the furry yiff gear and AIDS infested spaceship thing. It doesn’t even need to be exposed for what it is, because it’s so blatant.
Your elitist garbage, however, needs to be accounted for.
“taking the low road like Tharik”
*I* am taking the low road? Yet, constant, obsessive references to masturbation are what? High-brow and lady-like?
Reality
Jun 7th, 2007
Bruno: “You keep trying to say that you don’t really care what other say, yet you keep posting replies to everything that Tharik says.”
Did I say anything of the sort? Nope. try a tactic that is more original, m’kay?
I find this amusing though …. “know next to NOTHING about Sparta?”
Sorry – Which one were you talking about again? Oh – that’s right, your Military Role Play Group. Sorry pal – the article tells me all I need to know, as do the few responses here by you and whatever other members of the group have commented.
The most important thing that I know?
Like any other group in Second Life which has such a serious attitude, anyone saying anything negative about you is turned upon, ridiculed, called a ‘troll’ and any other tactic you think you can get away with.
In short ‘King’ Bruno: If you and the rest of your friends here were truly secure about your group …. You’d be able to take negative comments of almost any sort and you’d know when the correct time is to stop responding.
apparently …. You’re not very secure.
Tharik: do yourself a favor and stop responding, m’kay? You’re showing your ignorance and proving each and every time that you are incapable of thought aside from your own little world, within which anyone that dares have a different opinion about something you are involved in is somehow ‘trolling’ – or for that matter anyone that actually likes to keep up with the community.
Now then kid – kindly go back to polishing your M-16, maybe even log into Second Life to have a few gunfights … stick to your strong suits kid – Thinking is not one of them.
Artemis Fate
Jun 7th, 2007
“they just don’t like military groups, and they thrive on disrupting any talks on anything they don’t like.”
Oh you’re totally right. That’s it. Certainly not that I have opinions in fact, just change around a word or two:
“they just don’t like people who criticize military groups, and they thrive on disrupting any talks on anything they don’t like.”
Guess that means you’re trolling too by that vague definition!
“but I certainly wouldn’t even bother to post in said thread. Why? Because I don’t care what they do / think, they are wackos in my eyes.”
Yet here you are, posting away because you don’t like what I had to say. You call that trolling.
Now we can either drop the shabby terms in an attempt to marginalize the opponent, or we can continue on this way, arguing about something completely off topic and just getting everyone all riled up about nothing.
Artemis Fate
Jun 7th, 2007
Also. I don’t hate all military groups, I don’t even hate any of them. I dislike some, and am indifferent to most. I’m fond of the Merczateers actually (although you’re a terrible representative for them)
Tharik Oyen
Jun 7th, 2007
Reality:
“do yourself a favor and stop responding, m’kay”
Likewise numbskull.
“likes to keep up with the community”
Your idea of keeping up with the community seems to be unending, condescending posts about bringing doses of reality.
“Now then kid”
You calling me “kid” is akin to John Walker Lindh calling his fellow hip-hop forum posters “pasty white boys.”
Artemis:
“I have opinions in fact”
Opinions you have a heard time expressing without trite sarcasm, rhetorical questions, and obsessive sexual references.
“that means you’re trolling too”
The difference, of course, being that I do not bother any other groups in any other threads with rhetorical, sarcastic questions, veiled insults, sexual references, and just general garbage. Me calling you on your trolling does not amount to trolling.
“although you’re a terrible representative”
…said the Troll.
“drop the shabby terms in an attempt to marginalize the opponent”
Yah I agree, its run its course. Have a nice day.
Phantom
Jun 7th, 2007
Reality and Artemis, you have both made your selfs out as being assholes, and trolls. if you really need to hash it out take it off the comments, I got so sick of reading your posts I just skipped most of both of your comments.
you both really need to walk the fuck away, both of your are too stubborn to let the other get one last word in, and I’m sure my words will be useless but hey at least I tried.
you both are trolls, and both are acting as a fool.
Reality
Jun 7th, 2007
Um, Phantom? Have you asked me if I care how I come across? Nope. don’t like my posts – don’t read them at all m’kay? I reserve nice and polite for those that deserve it and are capable of taking a negative opinion. That frankly doesn’t make me an ‘asshole’ or a ‘troll’. Please return to grade school, where little twits like you belong m’kay?
Tharik: apparently you haven’t learned much in your time on the internet kid, and you’ve made it quite apparent that thinking is not your strong suit.
Shall I make it crystal clear to you kid? I think I will.
I’ve moved past even attempting to get you to see anything aside from your own narrow view and instead am now posting with the express intent of seeing you degenerate further and further into your natural self: A brainless, one track minded little grub. The most amusing part of this is that you’re still responding and playing right along.
See, my last few posts really can be classed as a form of ‘trolling’ – as can all of your own responses thus far kid. Now what does the smart person do? They stop responding once they realize that they’re being lead around and that the other person is purposely trying to push their buttons.
While I’d just love to keep screwing with you kid – there are more pressing matters affecting the community than this little group – as well as yourself – such as the ranting and raving of Second Life’s most incoherent ‘reporter’.
Oh yes – for the record kid I do have kind words for some …. Those who deserve it. You – at this juncture – do not.
Now then, this is directed at all who have posted from this group: I don’t have a damn thing against you and really don’t give a fuck how you Role Play …. You find the way you’re representing ancient Sparta fun? Good! go for it, run with it. That is the point of Role Playing itself – not just Second Life.
My words regarding the way you’d be treated among more serious groups were simply meant as an attempt to turn your eyes to your own claims and what you really do. Yes – they were harsh but that is the way of some things. A sort of trial by fire. Sadly, one commenter failed …. another missed the point.
Life goes on – Have fun.
Phantom
Jun 7th, 2007
one word for “reality” Hypocrite
Reality
Jun 7th, 2007
One word for you Phantom: clueless.
Ethan Schuman
Jun 7th, 2007
I’m posting now for two reasons:
1) To request a summary of all relevant assertions, if any, made in the large block of BLAH! (inter spaced by Reality’s liberal use of the word kid when referring to Tharik) that is the entirety of the past three day’s worth of comments.
2) …I forgot. Attempting to read and make sense of the comments to this article has traumatized my brain so badly, that I have either lost my short term memory, or forgotten how to count, if not both.
Artemis Fate
Jun 8th, 2007
“The difference, of course, being that I do not bother any other groups in any other threads with rhetorical, sarcastic questions, veiled insults, sexual references, and just general garbage. Me calling you on your trolling does not amount to trolling.”
Okay then, let’s say that i’m a troll and I hate all military groups. God knows there’s been a TON of posts in the SL herald about military groups lately. If your theory is correct that i’m a troll that is doing this out of a hate for military groups. I should be on every single one of those “trolling”.
I’ll wait.
Can’t find any? Yeah, thought so.
Guess i’m at about the same level as you are. Coming to one thread and stating my opinion, just as you came to this thread and stated yours.
“Opinions you have a heard time expressing without trite sarcasm, rhetorical questions, and obsessive sexual references.”
I’ll give you rhetorical questions and sarcasm but “Obsessive sexual references”? Like what. Like questioning whether or not this Sparta still instituted encouraged homosexual relationships? I asked that once and was forced to defend it. Hardly obsessive, and hardly unexpected as it was a core part of Spartan military ideals.
Phantom:
Don’t blame you for skipping it all, I would too. And you’re right, should just walk away from Tharik’s trolling (hey if he can misapply it to me, I can misapply it to him), but I am pretty stubborn. But the fact that you’re leaving Tharik out of this criticism and that you’re using the term “trolling” as well where it obviously doesn’t apply doesn’t bode well for your advice.
Luca Vasilopita
Jun 8th, 2007
I do believe… that THIS is infact Sparta.
http://spartafuntimes.ytmnd.com/
I had fun watching and even sticking a foot in now and then in this debate, it was quite energetic.
Alex
Jun 18th, 2007
Hooray! And it ends!
Bruno Ziskey
Jun 25th, 2007
What ends?
Kirill Moskvitch
Jul 4th, 2007
Does anyone give a royal shit about Bruce Ziskey and the pathetic Spartan militia he runs? I swear there is an article where Bruce comments and claims himself as a member of Patriotic Negras, yet here he tries to play the non-griefing experienced commander…the SLSN has more credibility than these few junks in the sky…
Bruno Ziskey
Jul 4th, 2007
“I swear there is an article where Bruce comments and claims himself as a member of Patriotic Negras, yet here he tries to play the non-griefing experienced commander”
Really? I do? please direct me to that article, it would be interesting to see where I say that, as I dont ever remember doing so. An interesting attempt to defile my name, but pointless.
Bruno Ziskey
King of Sparta
Kirill Moskvitch
Jul 10th, 2007
Here you go douchebag, one of the first five comments
http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/05/war_story.html#more
Bruno Ziskey
Jul 18th, 2007
Oh you poor dear…you cant read, can you? How sad. Look kid, I posted there, but I said “nice article tundra.” Nowhere does it have me saying I am the leader of some pathetic griefer trolling group.
Raideur Ng
Jul 24th, 2007
Sparta lives on, defending themselves from ungodly numbers of enemies with ingenuity and pride as always. Indeed a good story, pity it got swamped by people with no pride.
Fox Mainline-AM Sky Marshal
Aug 5th, 2007
Alrighty! who here wants a scandal?
anyone?
meh, im gona say it anyway.
Drum roll….
Bruno Zisiskey is infact an imposter, he stole is acount from ares artzitar and ‘turned sparta from greifers to an army’, however, Ares did not like AN, who now control sparta, whatever bruno may say, AN will fall, Sparta with them, i wish you luck bruno, you shall need it.
Bruno Ziskey
Aug 11th, 2007
*chuckles* You really think I care about what you say and do? Hey, come on over and attack us time moron. Ah thats right, you don’t have any men who can fight for shit.
The Griff (Griffith Benelli)
Oct 7th, 2007
“Opus, you are an idiot beyond comparison. The Sparta that this article is about is not about being gay or anything like that. Stop trying to badmouth a combat group that doesnt actually grief others, such as the grand federation or the SL Marines.”
lolz, tell me how we (The Grand Federation) greif pl0x, especially when Sparta violates their own rules beyond all belief.
By the way, I’ve personally fought Sparta with my comrades. We took over their headquarters, which was guarded by hordes of phalanx and air force members, in less than 30 seconds. Spartan Phalanx soldiers are really “elite”, especially when they use their banhammer on us cause we kicked thier asses.
jumpman lane
Oct 8th, 2007
Tardy!
The Griff (Griffith Benelli)
Oct 14th, 2007
omg no u r turdee
Bruno Ziskey
Oct 21st, 2007
My, my, Griff you certainly have a way with words. Griefing by feds has been done quite a lot, as I have logged on multiple times to find that your people left so much spam on our base that our prims were nearly full, and we aren’t exactly poor on prims at the base, so that leaves to the imagination of how much trash you left there. Worse, 90% of the time your people have been on base, no spartan was even there. AND when you have been on our base, you sit hack into our base by sitting on chairs in there. Curious bit of cheating no? Face it, the only way your group could “win” is by following no rules but your own. It seems you are closer to actually being the living show of what you accuse the AN of doing. And when was the last time your group successfully invaded Dorien? Hmm…
Meridia drug online.
Aug 1st, 2009
Meridia.
Ptsd and meridia. Meridia. Cheap meridia. Meridia without prescriptions.